S1: Hi, everyone. Ian here. Now, about three years ago, my
S1: friend and colleague Phaidon Stout interviewed Olympia Jago. Olympia is
S1: the CEO and founder of gotra, which is a pretty
S1: amazing robotic maggot food waste processing company. Uh, explain it
S1: better in the podcast. She is a remarkable founder. She's
S1: been a member of summit for our late stage founder
S1: group for quite a few years now, and has just
S1: got an incredible story feed and went into it a
S1: little bit three years ago. But we love getting founders
S1: back who have made great progress. Now Olympia is part
S1: ag tech, part deep tech and part climate tech, which
S1: is pretty remarkable. She lives in Canberra, which is a
S1: sort of hotbed of deep tech startups, and she really
S1: does have an amazing story. I know feeding got into
S1: some of that, but I think we cover some different
S1: ground in this one and hopefully it's pretty interesting. So
S1: why don't we jump over and listen to my interview
S1: with Olympia Yoga? Okay, welcome. I'm back with another episode
S1: with one of our favorite founders in the whole world,
S1: Olympia Lager from Gautier. Hello. Yeah, welcome. And now you
S1: are coming to us. Remote. I was actually in Canberra
S1: last week, so I should have brought my studio in
S1: the car and popped in to see you. But I
S1: didn't have time and I forgot. But you are in Canberra,
S1: which is somewhat of a hotbed for fantastic deep tech startups,
S1: including Gattaca. So, and it's your second time on the podcast?
S1: It is.
S2: Look at me.
S1: Go. Do you remember the last one I do, yeah.
S1: Phaidon did the.
S2: Interview. Yes, I was on the side of the road.
S1: Yeah. Because, yeah, one of the things I remember about
S1: you and, uh, from some of our early summit, um, uh,
S1: clan meetings was the, uh, uh, the fact that you
S1: were often behind the wheel of a truck driving. So
S1: you're very hands on founder. I mean, maybe we should
S1: start there like you are definitely, uh, you know, sleeves
S1: rolled up. Uh, get in the thick of it. Um,
S1: in fact, no, let me not ask that question. First.
S1: Let's go back to the basics and then we'll ask
S1: that question. Tell us a little bit about Gutierrez so
S1: that we we know what we're dealing with here.
S2: Gotcha. Is a waste management infrastructure company or waste management
S2: technology company. So we build autonomous robotic systems that make
S2: insects to a job. And their job is to process
S2: food waste. So we have a fee for service waste management, uh, capability.
S2: And then we create, uh, to agricultural commodities on the
S2: back side. Um, and so we make money on the
S2: front end and the back end, but we effectively where we,
S2: we enable a circular economy for that waste stream and
S2: the sort of ripple effects or concentric circles of how
S2: we work kind of impact the customers up and down
S2: the supply chain by participating with us. So it's a
S2: fun time to be in the space. And yeah, doing
S2: doing what?
S1: You also save the planet. I mean, it's maybe worth
S1: talking about. Why?
S2: Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Uh, so like, food waste is bad because if
S1: you leave it, it degrades and produces lots of noxious
S1: bad gases. But if you process it with your maggots
S1: or your robots or whatever you call them, then it
S1: doesn't do that. So is that kind of the punch line? Yeah.
S2: And I think also what we've done is we've decentralize
S2: the capability so we can do centralized or decentralized. But
S2: by decentralizing the capability you've also reduced truck movement. You've
S2: reduced impact to trucks, uh, of trucks on roads. You've, um,
S2: created logistic opportunities to reduce the cost of waste processing.
S2: So like I said, the knock on it's a sort
S2: of a bait. But wait, there's more sort of steak
S2: knife situation where, um, the sort of ripple effects of
S2: being able to have technology that can scale up or
S2: scale down to meet the customer need doesn't just mean
S2: that you can scale that capability infinitely and meet sort of,
S2: or address any customer where they are. But it also
S2: means that the the secondary and third order effects or
S2: the supply chain up and down is also benefit benefiting
S2: and impacted by your good work. And so, um, yeah, we, we,
S2: we do a lot of things across that supply chain
S2: that improve for everyone.
S1: And maybe for those that can't get their head around
S1: what the hell this looks like. I mean, can you
S1: bring it to life? Uh, you know, because it's basically
S1: a container, but like, there's a bit more to it
S1: than that. So tell us about the actual product. It's super.
S2: It's it's it's interesting. We own probably still a few
S2: too many verticals. Um, because we are sort of commercializing fast,
S2: but we it's still stuff that hasn't existed before. And
S2: so um, effectively on the mechanical side, you've got a, uh,
S2: industrialized mechanization that, uh, holds the insects, maintains their environment,
S2: health and well-being, and then it moves them to a
S2: feeding station and feeds them autonomously each day. It also
S2: accepts and receives waste from the customer. Depending on the
S2: way that unit is set or what customers are serving,
S2: that could either be receiving a tipped wheelie bin or receiving, uh,
S2: a load from a skid steer. Um, and then it
S2: processes that waste and moves it into the what is
S2: entirely a refurb to shipping container, um, to be where
S2: the insects are held, um, on the insect side, biologically,
S2: what we've done is we've got a strain that is
S2: highly suited to high heat, low humidity. So our operational
S2: costs are lower. Um, and we also have this capacity for, um,
S2: an insect that has a shorter life cycle. So not
S2: genetically modified for sure, but it has the strain has
S2: been adapted to our use case. So our generational life
S2: cycle is a little shorter than most. Um, and we've
S2: been able to make improve the production output of that insect, um,
S2: for some time. So you've got a fair range of capabilities. Um,
S2: when you do the math, which is to match the
S2: biological with the mechanical and. And make a thing.
S1: So if I had to simplify that, then basically you
S1: have a large shipping container with a bunch of clever
S1: mechanical stuff inside, filled up with a black soldier fly larvae,
S1: and then you get your customer, or you come along
S1: with a wheelie bin or truck full of food waste
S1: and you tip it in one side. The maggots eat
S1: the food, process it, and then what?
S2: And then we pull them out the other side and
S2: we process those into fertilizer and livestock feed. So we've
S2: got got it.
S1: So you've got protein stock and some fertilizer, which is
S1: a pretty good. So you're basically you get um, a
S1: waste product that people don't know what to deal with
S1: and would otherwise just throw away into landfill and they
S1: pay you. Well, this was the original model I remember hearing.
S1: They pay you to take your raw material, and then
S1: you process it and churn out, uh, protein for pet
S1: food or, or cattle feed or whatever it is, plus fertilizer. Yeah.
S2: So we we managed waste. That's difficult to process. So yes,
S2: it's still it's the customer still needs to pay for
S2: that to be managed because it's a difficult waste stream. Yeah.
S1: And it saves the planet because you've got 97% less emissions. Yes. Yeah. No.
S1: That's great. Uh, and so maybe, um, uh, I realized
S1: I haven't gone back to ask you the founder question, but, like,
S1: where are you at? Because there were there were some
S1: good news last year in 2023. So you got some
S1: pretty high name installations underway. So like tell us about progress.
S2: So we now in, uh, six sites in four states. Um,
S2: our weather park site is still, um, moving through the
S2: day process. So it's somewhat delayed, but um, we've.
S1: That's in Sydney.
S2: So that's in Sydney. Um, we've got some new sites
S2: coming into Western Australia and uh, Victoria and Queensland this year,
S2: and then also some regional New South Wales sites, um,
S2: and three more Sydney sites coming. So yeah, we despite
S2: the delay and.
S1: The sites different sorry different model for the sites. So
S1: do you own and operate them or do you do
S1: your customers or operate.
S2: Um, some of them are on site of the customers.
S2: Some of them are um, us, um, setting up new
S2: establishments with councils. Um, so all within the same business
S2: model that we use, um, but just different new customers
S2: or new sites for existing customers. Um, I think the
S2: biggest thing is, you know, last year we were three,
S2: you know, three sites in in the beginning of the
S2: last year, we were three sites in two states, and
S2: we moved, uh, as we predicted, through to six sites
S2: in four. And so, yeah, the set goal for this
S2: year is, is just as big and probably as audacious.
S2: And so strap in folks, it's going to get exciting.
S1: No, it it's pretty exciting. Um, and let's go back
S1: to this founder question then, because, I mean, and I
S1: don't want to cover the ground that you and fed
S1: and talked about three years ago, but I suspect a
S1: lot of listeners will not have heard that one. So
S1: I think it's important that we do, uh, but maybe
S1: a bit more about the, the genesis to this, uh,
S1: because I think you were a sheep farm originally and
S1: now you're a maggot farmer. I don't know how you
S1: think about this or talk about it, but you are an,
S1: you know, very hands on founder. So tell us a
S1: bit more about that.
S2: Yeah. I think I didn't realize in the beginning that
S2: that that not all founders are as hands on. Um,
S2: but then also, I think the challenge is that not
S2: all businesses require founders to be as hands on. So,
S2: you know, I know a lot of my peers in
S2: software startups who by now, you know, we all start
S2: at the same time. But just the evolution of their
S2: organization compared to mine is very different. Um, and so,
S2: you know, you they're still they're now sort of basically
S2: raising money, working with investors and doing high level BD.
S2: And I, I think the other thing that's certainly different
S2: or where it needed me to be different, was how
S2: much money we raised. So by and large, when you
S2: think about climate tech companies, um, and certainly with this
S2: stage of traction, um, that we've got, we've not raised
S2: a lot of funds. So when you compare us to
S2: the closest competitor in internationally, I think we've raised 20
S2: million Australian and the closest competitor to us in like
S2: commercialization and traction has raised probably over 70 million, uh, euro.
S2: And so, you know, there's been a need for me
S2: to stay a little bit more operational, um, in these
S2: last sort of five years of Gutierrez evolution. Um, just
S2: because we don't have funds to put that many more
S2: layers between myself and the rubber meeting the road, both
S2: metaphorically and physically and frankly, when you're working with, um,
S2: the sort of dynamic of the business that we have,
S2: which is, you know, we're not all in one room or,
S2: you know, either engineers and scientists. We have literally from
S2: entry level through to super sophisticated scientists and mechanical engineers
S2: and whatever. And so you've got a very diverse workforce
S2: at gotra, which means that you've got, uh, different predictability
S2: around how that workforce rotates or moves, um, what its
S2: life cycle is going to be. So, yeah, truck drivers, uh,
S2: often not long term employees. And so sometimes or if they've,
S2: they've had a delay in another area and we've got
S2: to get a truck on the road and they need
S2: someone with a medium rigid license, there are only a
S2: few of those in the organization, and I happen to
S2: be one of them. So if you're not going to
S2: put in and help when those things need to take place,
S2: then yeah, I don't know if you need to be
S2: being a CEO at all.
S1: And when did you last drive the truck or it's a.
S2: Sign potentially, of how much we've grown in the last
S2: six months for sure. I haven't driven the truck. I
S2: don't think since probably October of last year.
S1: Uh, you don't? Yeah. Well done. Yeah, yeah. That's progress.
S1: That's good. I used to love it when you saw
S1: Olympia behind this massive truck wheel on the zoom.
S2: Yeah, I've got to figure out how to make it
S2: my background. So it feels like people feel like that's
S2: why it should be.
S1: Um, it was interesting. I might just deviate down this this, um,
S1: track for a sake. So the capital efficiency of Aussie
S1: founders in terms of progress per, uh, invested, invested dollar,
S1: like a lot of international VCs say that we are
S1: amongst the best in the world. Yeah. Uh, and I
S1: think what you just said there kind of alludes to that, but,
S1: I mean, what you and what you're doing is hard.
S1: I mean, you got deep tech, you've got hardware, you've
S1: got biology. I mean, there's a whole bunch of tough
S1: stuff in there. Yeah. Uh, I mean, like any. Can
S1: you just maybe unpack that a little more around how
S1: efficient you've been with the capital that you've raised?
S2: I can there's even a spreadsheet now that actually talks
S2: to it. Um, look, I yeah. So in 2018, we
S2: raised $1.2 million. And after two years we had a
S2: prototype TRL six that cost me $650,000 to build. My
S2: CapEx spend was sorry. My operational spend for those two
S2: years was 175,000. Um, so yeah, that's that's how efficient
S2: I was in those two years. So, um, those two
S2: years got us a contract into Lendlease, Barangaroo, tower two
S2: and so on that we raised an $8 million round.
S2: And in those two years, 2020 to 2022, um, the
S2: cost of the mid went down to 560,000 for the
S2: first one. We got it down after that. Um, operational
S2: spend over two years with 3.3 million. So again fairly
S2: fairly light on um on what we, where we spend
S2: our money and what we did. And so by 2023
S2: to 2024, um, yeah. The first the chips are now
S2: 110,000 and operational spend is 3.8. So only went up
S2: 500,000 on operational spend. But from 2022 to 23, um
S2: was 770% growth.
S1: And you did raise another round last year that was announced.
S1: I think it was August 10th million.
S2: So we did a, uh, safe of ten. Um, and
S2: so that put us to that sort of got us
S2: to the 23, 24 timeline. So yeah. So we've we've
S2: done jumps of insane amounts. So tons processed first two years,
S2: 50 tons processed second two years through 3200 tons processed
S2: last year, 10,000. And so that's huge. Yeah. So we're
S2: not where. Yeah. The insane, um, revenue increases based on
S2: how much money we've raised.
S1: But yeah. Yeah. So normally when you do a safe
S1: run like that, it's a precursor to, uh, sort of
S1: priced bigger rounds. So is that the stage you're at?
S2: That's where we're at. You don't. Yeah. Right. So it's
S2: time to sort of turn on, um, operational excellence and
S2: sort of take all the processes that we understand and
S2: learned in this last sort of 4 or 5 years
S2: of R&D and, and really turn the tap on because
S2: there are not enough commercial organics processing facilities across Australia
S2: to meet sort of climate goals, but certainly not some
S2: of the landfill bans. And then even more importantly, um,
S2: the landfills are filling up. So if we can even
S2: remotely contribute to that, um, it's it's well, in the
S2: realms of $1 billion business. And so it's the timing
S2: couldn't be much better. So I think yeah, like we
S2: get asked a lot because it's modular. A lot of um, investors,
S2: particularly in Australia, will go we're not really sure how
S2: it gets big. Right. And and it's which is an interesting, um,
S2: assessment and sort of something I think about a lot
S2: because it means I'm not explaining it very well. But, um,
S2: I think when you think about a company that can
S2: literally adapt to a customer need or a demographic need
S2: at will, um, whereas existing waste management technology, even the
S2: new stuff that's getting funded cannot and has to be
S2: in centralized facilities. Um, how big do you want me
S2: to be? Is the real answer. And so yeah, yeah,
S2: time to grow.
S1: And and how how are you managing your time? Because,
S1: I mean, it's tough being a founder and you've got
S1: a business to run, but, uh, raising a round like
S1: this is going to be pretty time consuming. So, you know,
S1: I presume you're like 80% in fundraising and 60% and
S1: operational was the balance.
S2: Yeah. Look, we've we've had to stay pretty lean on executives, um,
S2: and on team. So we're still operating with a fairly
S2: small team compared to how big we are and how
S2: many sites we operate. Um, and our executive team is
S2: incredibly small, so we're pretty flat. Um, which means that,
S2: you know, everybody's pulling still and everyone's putting their attention
S2: where it needs to be. But our team, you know,
S2: I don't know, a team that can do more with
S2: less than our team. And, um, we all just sort
S2: of move through it by helping each other. And, you know,
S2: we one of our biggest values is we're all in
S2: the boat together. So, um, one of the odd things
S2: about when people sort of come to work with us
S2: or do help advisory, they're like, always just try and
S2: talk to me. And I'm like, no, that'll be this
S2: person's job. And then they find themselves talking to sort
S2: of an entry level grad, um, who is helping with
S2: something quite critical, but where that's sort of how we've
S2: got to operate at the moment. So, yeah, look, the
S2: lights are always on and, uh, yeah, I can neither
S2: confirm nor deny if I'm getting any sleep.
S1: Yeah. No, no, I mean, I might just squeeze you
S1: a little bit on, on this one just because I
S1: think a lot of founders who are going through it
S1: wonder how the hell are going to deal with it. So,
S1: I mean, literally, how do you prioritize your time between
S1: fundraising and operational hands on stuff?
S2: There is no way to actually fundamentally prioritize it, because
S2: you can't negotiate what becomes a priority in one or
S2: the other, um, in its evolution. So operationally, you may
S2: have a really great plan in place. And, and then,
S2: I don't know, a flood happens at your headquarter office
S2: and then the team doesn't have XYZ to manage. And yes,
S2: that has happened now three times in the last 12 months. Um,
S2: and you've got to reprioritize your time that you thought
S2: you would have to work on a deck or a
S2: presentation or a speech and, and go to work and
S2: help do something else. And so I think what you've
S2: got to try and figure out and what I think
S2: maybe I'm going to speak to investors on this one
S2: as well, is and particularly existing investors whose founders are
S2: going through, um, their raises now, um, where I found
S2: the best avenues to get myself support or get myself
S2: time is when my investors, you know, the good ones,
S2: are actually recognizing where I need help and either stepping
S2: into that void or. Finding time, or finding another resource,
S2: or finding some support or recognizing, hey, if I've got
S2: this request for this individual that potentially I might have
S2: to do some of this heavy lifting because of what
S2: all they're managing. And I think that's actually a sign
S2: of where we're at right now, particularly for climate tech companies. Right.
S2: Like too many good climate tech companies went to the
S2: wall last year because they didn't have support early and often,
S2: or it wasn't recognized early and often just how momentous
S2: arrays was going to be for a startup in that climate.
S2: And we can have lots of chats about whether or
S2: not they were good companies or not. But I'm sorry
S2: that you can't actually make those determinations as easily early
S2: as with climate tech as you do with software, and
S2: we can find about that in the comment section later. But, um,
S2: I think I think the biggest thing, you know, is
S2: that a founder needs permission. And largely when they're going
S2: through a raise, they're going to need that permission from
S2: their from their existing investors because their team is going
S2: to try to give them permission. Um, but their investors
S2: are going to expect them to deliver a very polished
S2: raise process. And so if you are struggling, you've got
S2: to be able to reach out to your investors and
S2: get help. We're on areas where you've got to turn operationally,
S2: and they can take the baton for some other stuff. So, um,
S2: for me this year, I think I've been working from
S2: home a little bit more often. So that gives me
S2: a little extra time on the front and back end
S2: to get some stuff done. It also means that I just,
S2: I don't get pulled into as many smaller things as
S2: I would if I was in the office just by default. Um,
S2: and that's not then people pulling on my time. It's
S2: just like, I want to have lunch with my team.
S2: I want to say hello to people. Um, it's it's
S2: more distracting to be in an office sometimes when you're
S2: trying to get shit done. Um, and I think just
S2: I made a commitment to myself, um, because last year
S2: was a particularly tough year for me personally, um, to
S2: ride my horse at least five times a week. Um, I'm,
S2: I'm sitting right at seven days a week, much to
S2: his disgust. Um, except when I've been traveling. And so, um,
S2: that's done a shit ton for my my well-being. It's
S2: very difficult to make time to do things that require
S2: any kind of energy when you're working on a raise,
S2: because it's so tiring and you start to not want
S2: to work out or do anything that requires effort because
S2: it's exhausting. And and then you get tired and then,
S2: you know, you can't work on that thing late at
S2: night or whatever. But forcing myself to to do that and, um,
S2: making it not optional has been really helpful to my,
S2: my mental health. So that's been good.
S1: Yeah. I mean, I think this is such an important
S1: comment and thanks for being open about that. But, I mean,
S1: looking after yourself and to a large extent as a founder,
S1: leaning on others. I mean, I know you've been part
S1: of the innovation based summit, which is the late stage
S1: founder community. I mean, has that been helpful in terms
S1: of being able to, to lean on on your peers? Well, Plug's.
S2: Yes, it has. Yeah. Like for me, I've had, you know,
S2: some of my most meaningful experiences have been at those
S2: summit events. It's been difficult for me to get to them,
S2: to be fair, because it's super hard to when you
S2: make those decisions to go to those events, um, you're
S2: making a commitment to go and to then and then,
S2: but then you feel the pressure of also having to
S2: try and do some work. And so taking the time
S2: to just give to yourself feels difficult, feels selfish. But
S2: every time I've done it, it's been the right thing. Um,
S2: and it's it's certainly given me, um. It's. Yeah. Refilled
S2: the bucket made me feel get perspective because I'm with
S2: other founders who are dealing with similar shit. You know,
S2: you're not alone. Um, it's sometimes really easy to believe
S2: that you're the only person going through this stuff, or
S2: you're the only person who has challenges like you do,
S2: and that's just not true. But you live in your
S2: own bubble. And so, um, getting getting peer to peer
S2: interactions is really important for sure.
S1: Uh, and this isn't an invitation to sort of sledge
S1: the competition, but, I mean, there's been there's companies out
S1: there that maybe not done quite as well. I mean,
S1: I noticed that birdie, which is a Blackbird tech company sect,
S1: 30 people late last year. And, you know, no one
S1: likes to see that at all. I mean, it's it's
S1: just tough. I mean, but any comments in that one?
S1: Was that their product or their team or a minute. Yeah. No,
S1: we should be.
S2: No, no it's okay I'm criticizing.
S1: It's not no criticism.
S2: No it's not about criticism. And I don't know enough
S2: about the organization to have that insight as to what
S2: what went wrong. Uh, all I know is how much
S2: they raised and the ambition that Phoebe and the team had,
S2: which was, you know, relentlessly pursued and should be, um,
S2: should be championed, but you can't. You cannot run a
S2: business like this with five verticals and deliver those kinds
S2: of outcomes without being funded. And and you can't do
S2: climate tech without funding. And I think everyone's going to
S2: start to actually recognize that you can't that that is
S2: that you look at how much money they raised, that
S2: it was a standard model that we've all seen in
S2: the Australian ecosystem. And it's like, oh, we give you
S2: a little bit here, 20% give you a little bit
S2: more and we'll just see hedge our bets. And it's
S2: like you're on the back of that. You don't. And
S2: and in a hardware company of that kind, the kind
S2: of companies that we're running, like you can't give them
S2: a little bit because it like I said, for me
S2: it's like 1.2 million and managed to do all of
S2: the R&D required and keep the organization running and hold
S2: a lease, have customers, which we did from day one.
S2: All of the things that we managed to do and
S2: only spend hundred and $75,000 in those two years on opex, like,
S2: I'm not sure how people think, how much like with
S2: I don't know if people understand what that was. That's
S2: not four dudes in a we work. That's a team
S2: of six in a warehouse trying to do stuff. Right.
S2: And we literally didn't buy anything new. We bought all
S2: this stuff and refurbished it, but we were expected to
S2: deliver very commercial outcomes from those trials. And so you
S2: can't fund climate tech companies and then like, like they're
S2: software startups and then they're going to get 10,000 users.
S2: And then you can add water to that in its
S2: growth stage doesn't it's just not how it works. We've
S2: got to absolutely reimagine and re-evaluate what it means to
S2: fund climate tech. High risk comes out. Yeah. So I mean.
S1: So as well as, I mean, as well as you
S1: being like almost uniquely ambitious and, you know, I'd say
S1: talent talented. Uh, your cap table is pretty impressive, too.
S1: I mean, do you want to run through some of
S1: the people on there and who's backed you?
S2: Yeah. So we've got, uh, ramps and Giant Leap, tenacious ventures,
S2: ML investments out of Singapore under story. Um, we've got
S2: flying Fox. So yeah, like a huge amount of really amazing, um,
S2: Australian VCs. And again now with investments in Singapore that
S2: have just been, um, yeah. Like I would not be
S2: here without those funds. They've been just always backed from
S2: the beginning and and backed with everything I have.
S1: Yeah. And I mean all uh, all of them, I
S1: don't know, a couple of them, but, um, all the
S1: Aussie ones you mentioned are awesome. Yeah. I mean, great investors.
S1: You didn't mention grok.
S2: Oh, yeah. And grow. Sorry.
S1: You know, and grok because that's kind of the, uh,
S1: the I guess this not celebrity because that suggests there's
S1: no talent there. But, I mean, Mike Cannon-Brookes is a
S1: startup celebrity as well as being an awesome guy and
S1: an awesome investor. I mean, he has been, you know,
S1: he's leant in with you and and has helped you,
S1: from what I understand. Is that right?
S2: The, uh, yeah. So in the early days, the team, um,
S2: we had quite a bit of support through from them
S2: for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I don't mind, um, personally myself. So.
S1: Yeah, I mean, he's certainly a fan. Is is is
S1: what I could say. All right. Um, let me ask
S1: one more thing. Uh, you were Canberra's Australian of the
S1: year last year. What does that mean?
S2: Not a lot. You get to say it out loud
S2: when people are annoying you and you want to try
S2: and get something done. And then. And then you feel
S2: the intolerable embarrassment of being the person that you.
S1: Um.
S2: Uh, what should we talk about? To get.
S1: Yeah. Got it.
S2: Look, I think yeah, I think we had it, like,
S2: totally reset. So you can. No, no.
S1: Let's go again. I mean, I'm keen to hear about
S1: the team. Yeah. Uh, and you're working style and you
S1: know what phase you're at. So, I mean, if you
S1: go into the next phase and raise a big series, which,
S1: you know, it's going to be tens of millions, I'm sure, um,
S1: it's going to move you into a new phase. Uh,
S1: but I suspect that no is the answer. But, I mean,
S1: how do you think about R&D, which you've kind of
S1: been doing for the last few years versus sales and execution?
S1: I mean, does that balance change once you get to
S1: that series?
S2: No, it'll be technically a series B for us. I
S2: wish I'd known earlier to start calling things C plus
S2: and plus some things, but tech is a third round.
S2: But technically it's a B. Um, you know, for us.
S1: I mean, it's all semantics. I mean, the round, uh,
S1: letters just tend to mean how expensive your lawyers are.
S2: Yeah, it's I, I still.
S1: Have the letter. The more expensive.
S2: I still haven't figured it out, I think. I think the, um.
S2: You know for us, R&D can't stop because we've we've
S2: really only just touched the surface on what we can achieve.
S2: I think what changes is the type of R&D we're pursuing.
S2: So the mechanical side, um, works as described on the box.
S2: But now, you know, your level of autonomy, data collection, intelligence, um,
S2: is the next phase. And then similarly on the insect side,
S2: the kinds of things that they're going to be consuming,
S2: what kinds of insects we use those sorts of things
S2: as the next evolution. Um, so R&D doesn't stop. It's
S2: just probably a more commercially applied rather than the deep
S2: tech stuff, like, will it actually work? Um, and so
S2: it's just sort of the next step up from where
S2: we are, but, you know, to stay relevant for our
S2: customers that the R&D piece won't change or slow down. Um,
S2: but yes, we are moving well and truly into growth
S2: phase and, um, building that out. So, um, for us,
S2: it is going to be a pretty big change for
S2: the organization. We've in the executive team at the moment.
S2: We've got, you know, former Suez, uh, C-suite individuals. We've
S2: got former C-suite heads of from, um, space, uh, organizations. Um,
S2: and then black soldier fly. Um, and so, you know,
S2: having a team that light and getting them filled out
S2: with sort of some more C-suite folks and people who
S2: understand what it means to, you know, strategically grow a
S2: business of this kind, um, is where we're heading, which
S2: will be a lot of fun. And I'm looking forward
S2: to having that capability in the team. It's going to
S2: be really exciting.
S1: And will this next round allow you to go overseas? Uh,
S1: so at this time next year, where are you.
S2: Always overseas, as always on the marker. But there's such
S2: a big market in Australia at the moment. Um, you know,
S2: there's the focus has got to be expansion and taking
S2: market share in Australia. But I think yeah, we continue
S2: to look at Singapore. And I was over there recently
S2: discussing things with a variety of different stakeholders. And um,
S2: and we also have a couple of customers in the
S2: US who are ready when we are. And so, um,
S2: for me right now, though, you know, with the size
S2: of the team and what we've got going on, we're
S2: just keeping our heads down and focusing on delivering where
S2: we're at and what we're doing.
S1: Do you think Aussie founders in general are a little
S1: too eager to to go overseas? Because, look, it's tough.
S1: I mean, trying to launch in a new country is
S1: incredibly difficult.
S2: I think we ignore the fact that Australian founders have
S2: a glass ceiling above them. Right? So if you don't
S2: get a if you don't get a raise away with Blackbird,
S2: main sequence or square peg, maybe one of them, I
S2: guess you could throw in there. Then you you have
S2: to go overseas sooner or later. And as soon as
S2: you go to the US investors, the first thing they'll
S2: ask you is when will you be here? So I
S2: don't think they want to, but there is a belief,
S2: you know, outside of, uh, Australia, if you start with
S2: the US investors, which is where most people start, the
S2: first question you were asked is when will you be international? Um,
S2: and they don't consider Australia a big enough market to bother.
S2: So I think that's a barrier. And I think that's
S2: why you see a lot of Australian founders saying it.
S2: It's also, you know, it tends to be a requirement for, uh,
S2: certain stages of Australian funds from their existing investors. We
S2: must be showing that we're going overseas. Right. Because the
S2: belief is that the Australian market is not big enough.
S2: I don't think founders make that decision willingly. To be fair.
S2: I think that's something that's expected of us.
S1: Yeah. Interesting. Um, I'm keen to. I know before we
S1: switch the mics on, I asked you, did you read
S1: the latest Australian startup funding report? You just want me
S1: to say vagina? No, no, but I know you, uh,
S1: you you prayed yourself on, uh, on on on sort
S1: of articulating that now and again. Um, yeah. No, I'm
S1: keen to like two questions about the startup funding report.
S1: So one, which is probably the more important one is
S1: just around gender. And then let's maybe answer that. And
S1: I just want to ask you about deep tech. So
S1: like the stats around um, gender and the diversity of
S1: the outcomes in that report were not great.
S2: Discussed in.
S1: Any. Um, care to comment?
S2: No. I think we should be ashamed, and I can't
S2: fathom that anyone was speaking into that report without talking
S2: to that issue. And I think what's what I'm starting
S2: to see is that founders are largely becoming, uh, done with,
S2: you know, you can't you cannot ignore the investment pattern
S2: that we are seeing and the behaviour that investments are
S2: letting happen. If I wore burkini on a jet and
S2: fluffed around like an idiot, I wouldn't be funded. And
S2: I know that's true because of the feedback that I've
S2: received from investors about my saying vagina on podcasts. So,
S2: you know, if I can't say a word that's actually
S2: common nomenclature and speaks to my gender, then, um, and,
S2: but another individual can behave like an absolute press and
S2: fly about and still be funded. I don't I don't
S2: know what people expect us to think. Um, but it
S2: shouldn't be good. And, and I think what we've got
S2: to actually turn into as a country is that these
S2: statistics are actually well below, so that even worse than
S2: any other country in the world, there's a reason TechCrunch
S2: is doing a bunch of reporting on the Australian environment
S2: at the moment. Um, yeah. There's nothing that we should
S2: be feeling about it except complete embarrassment. And if we
S2: don't see a change, then we know that the status
S2: quo suits certain organisations just fine. So I think we've
S2: got to stop tolerating the vanity metrics or, you know,
S2: incubator metrics as fun metrics or any of the other
S2: things that people are using right now to validate, um,
S2: because it's just seemingly impossible based on how many female
S2: founders I'm mentoring, the Australian ecosystem that you can have
S2: multiple male funded, uh. Organizations funded in a row. Um,
S2: and the premise is either a there weren't enough women
S2: coming through. Just call bullshit on without even trying or
S2: be what I call and with absolutely no disrespect to
S2: that team, the Canada defense. So any time we're ready,
S2: we can stop using Canva as a as a rationale
S2: for the fact that Australia invests in female founders because
S2: and again, without any disrespect to that team, but they
S2: are being used as an example, um, of, of investment and,
S2: and that was stated on a panel I listened to
S2: recently last year where it was like, you know, literally
S2: the quote in statement was last time, of course, we
S2: invest in female founders. Last time I checked, Melanie Perkins
S2: was a female. That's disgusting. And it shouldn't be a
S2: statement both out of respect to her and her work,
S2: but also out of respect to the millions of other
S2: women who are trying to be funded. Like you don't
S2: get a token and say that's enough. So yeah.
S1: Yeah, yeah. Look, it is an amazing outlier, you know?
S1: So let's not, um, suggest that she hasn't done an
S1: incredible job with Canva. But you're right. Like you can't
S1: use that as the token. Hey, we're fine because we've
S1: got male and Canva.
S2: Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. Like, it's absolutely. I
S2: hate having to use it as the example because it
S2: feels denigrated and it shouldn't. But we cannot continue to
S2: use 1 or 2 women. And I get used in
S2: other smaller, much smaller circles. But you can't use me
S2: as an example either or any of the other female
S2: founders who have managed to claw their way through to
S2: a resolution or a funding round as an example, because
S2: the numbers are still too low, based on the comparative
S2: numbers of females who are founding businesses and starting businesses
S2: in in seed stage pre-seed stage at the moment, like
S2: you're just not looking.
S1: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, this is one of
S1: the things that I think is, is amazing about you.
S1: I mean, like you're a sort of not I was
S1: going to say minority and a minority because you're doing
S1: deep take as well as being a woman phone. Yeah.
S1: And both of them are quite unusual. I mean, and so,
S1: I mean, maybe let's open up the conversation around that
S1: deep tech piece as well. Yeah. I mean, look, it's tough.
S1: I mean, like the the areas that you're playing in
S1: are incredibly difficult. Um, I mean, how much of, uh,
S1: hindrance has it been, you think being a woman in
S1: this space.
S2: I just if any for Asians. I was sort of like,
S2: took a more 90s approach to it where I was like, oh,
S2: you know, I've just got to work harder to, you know,
S2: play the game, whatever. But, like, nobody understands what the
S2: game is anymore because we're still we're still looking for
S2: source metrics in climate and hardware companies. We're still trying
S2: to validate based on founders that worked in the past.
S2: And it's like, well, if a founder was successful in
S2: the past and now you're saying, well, I'll apply that
S2: rationale to the the archetype of the family that works
S2: in the future. It's like for deep tech that doesn't
S2: even translate because the founder for deep tech is imagining
S2: a world that doesn't even exist, but that, like so
S2: you can't use the past to predict the future in
S2: that way. And so you've got just this, like layering
S2: upon layering of unconscious bias that makes it difficult. And
S2: so after a while, and particularly last year, um, I
S2: settled on a few working groups about women in startups
S2: that just got incredibly disillusioned by what the reality of
S2: what I'm looking at, which is no fun. Well, very
S2: few funds want to admit out loud that they have
S2: an unconscious bias that they cannot resolve. Um, they we're
S2: seeing women walked off boards. We're seeing women removed from
S2: their seats. We're seeing women get to a certain stage
S2: of funding and be just physically unable to cross the Rubicon.
S2: And and at that point, at some point, you've got
S2: to recognize that the sheer limited number of women that
S2: are making it are an anomaly. Not not not an attribute.
S2: And we've got to change something. Deep tech does not
S2: behave the same way as software. Again, happy to argue
S2: with you in the comments. It doesn't evolve. It doesn't grow.
S2: It doesn't change. You cannot fund it the same way.
S2: You cannot expect the founder to be the same. And so,
S2: you know, when we think about what it what is
S2: required to engage with deep tech, we can't we can't
S2: use the models of the past. But we are and
S2: and so we end up with a bunch of pivots and,
S2: you know, stuff that doesn't get commercialized. Or we fund
S2: its commercialization by funding its customer. Like, yeah, we're in
S2: a roundabout. We never get to see it. Not not
S2: for nothing. If you if it's climate tech, you've got
S2: seven years to figure it out. So I don't know,
S2: seven years. Well, we have ten years before 2030 which
S2: was considered a tipping point. So this is the decisive
S2: decade currently. If you look at the weather at the moment,
S2: I would suggest potentially have already gone. But yeah.
S1: I think the tipping point is over. I mean, I
S1: think the North Atlantic Ocean currents are shutting down the
S1: West Antarctic ice shelves. About what are we waiting for then?
S2: Ian?
S1: Oh, yeah. I'm with you. Seriously? It's it's. Yeah. I mean, look,
S1: this is the impossible question, but if you were, uh,
S1: if you had a magic wand, what would you do
S1: to to fix these issues?
S2: It's hard to know, right? Because. Yeah. And then it
S2: sounds like a cop out because I've had a lot
S2: of spicy things to say. And now I'm like, I
S2: don't know how to fix it. I think I think
S2: systemic stuff is difficult. So the first thing you have
S2: to do is wake up every morning and understand that
S2: it's true. And so at the point where you feel
S2: like you're at woke Austin, maybe drive another 100km and
S2: park there because that's the amount of sort of mindfully, mindfully,
S2: the mindfulness that you'll have to do to get past
S2: an unconscious bias. So at very first, I think, you know,
S2: all of us have to start to go, okay, how
S2: do I, as a woman, present myself in, in, in
S2: a boardroom that maybe I could amend, change or do
S2: differently to maybe speak the language in a way that
S2: makes sense? How much is that actually just maybe not
S2: doing a great job? How much is it associated with
S2: my gender? Like sort my stuff out? And then I
S2: think of the fun side. It's it's got to be
S2: better than a metric. So are you going where the
S2: women are? Are you actively trying to understand why a
S2: woman will explain her business so incredibly differently to a
S2: man just by default? Uh, are you you understanding how
S2: you digest information? Women are naturally more storytellers. Is that
S2: the problem? I don't know, like, there's a range of
S2: ways you can confront an unconscious bias in a commercial
S2: sense and revamp how you think about it. I think
S2: the biggest challenge for the Australian ecosystem at the moment
S2: is that glass ceiling. So you've got really big funds
S2: that invest really early to really late, and then you've
S2: got some really strong mid, mid, small to mid sized funds. Um,
S2: you end up a bit stuck in that ecosystem because
S2: you've if you go with a lead that's small then
S2: like is not for deep tech, you're going to have
S2: to go out of town um, later because you won't
S2: be able to get the big four to come on. Um,
S2: or you can try and get the big four and
S2: hope that you meet their metrics to carry forward. And
S2: that's not a criticism, but we all know how it works. Right.
S2: And that's that's generally how this ecosystem is playing out. Um,
S2: and so I think that's the bit that I would
S2: try to reimagine or find a way to work around
S2: or be more collaborative or, I don't know, just do
S2: something different because that's where our that's where we're getting
S2: all we're getting all blocked up.
S1: Yeah. And so in the startup funding report they had
S1: this category called deep tech. You know, and that was
S1: kind of down at the bottom end of the hype cycle. Or,
S1: you know, there's very few deals in there. And I
S1: kind of struggled with that because I even thought about
S1: gotra in that context. And you probably wouldn't have been
S1: called a deep tech company. You'd have been either a
S1: climate tech or agtech, you know, so like how many
S1: deep tech company and then the other one that kind
S1: of annoyed me was they lumped in space with defense. Now, um,
S1: garlic's like, we want to invest in space, but we
S1: don't want to invest in defense. So like we do
S1: an investment there and it looks like we're supporting the
S1: defense industry. Yeah, there's I don't know. So just the categorization. Yeah.
S2: The categories are difficult. Like deep tech I think has
S2: now become like something that like. There's a potential of
S2: something that requires a subtle level of R&D to get
S2: across line, but like, that's climate tech in a day, right?
S2: Like anything that's new, that's going to address the new
S2: world is deep tech. Um, but I think it also
S2: depends on how, you know, how your team fronts sometimes
S2: to how they present it. So, you know, for for
S2: you to be considered new tech often feels like you
S2: need to have a scientist or an engineer on your
S2: team as a founding member or coming out of a, uh,
S2: an academia or SRO type thing. Um, you know, all
S2: of those things are difficult. But it's also, again, Ian,
S2: we're looking backwards to look forwards. SpaceX has historically been
S2: considered defense. It's now telecommunications. So or and other things.
S2: But how are we still categorizing space as telecommunications as
S2: as defense. It means we're not actually realizing how fast
S2: our world is evolving and how these technologies are actually
S2: literally changing our future in front of our eyes. And
S2: we're still just using these old modalities to assess how
S2: we move forward. So I think it's super difficult. Um,
S2: and hats off to everyone in the ecosystem that's trying
S2: to solve for it. But I think we're right now,
S2: from my perspective, and certainly from a lot of the
S2: founders that I work with and know, it feels very
S2: much that a lot of the funds are all in
S2: their separate corners, and we don't have a more collaborative
S2: Australian type of an approach to how we lift the
S2: ecosystem collectively and ensure its success, regardless of the fund
S2: that funds it. Um, and I think that way, if
S2: we thought about those things, I think Australia could be
S2: way a really unique opportunity, a really vibrant opportunity and
S2: an opportunity that's different to others, but not in a
S2: way that, you know, doesn't show an economic return in
S2: investment in Australia, but that that actually enhances what we
S2: can do down here and the stuff that we do
S2: really well.
S1: Yeah. No. Here. Here to that. That's, uh, that's great
S1: insight there. Uh, okay. Like two more, uh, topics. Uh,
S1: and then I want to jump to the quickfire round.
S1: So first one, uh, I so like you think about
S1: hype cycle in the investment world and I it's it's
S1: super hot. Uh, you know, personally, I kind of feel
S1: that it's a bit more genuine than some of the
S1: previous ones, like the sort of Web3 or blockchain or
S1: whatever came before that. Um, what's your view? And I.
S1: And are you using it internally? Yeah.
S2: I, I'm just a bit over fads again. Look, I think,
S2: I think ChatGPT is going to do some really interesting stuff.
S2: I think it's going to eat a bunch of different
S2: things that we haven't thought about. Um, personally, I don't
S2: want to imagine a world where I'm. I'm reading content
S2: that was written by a machine to get me to
S2: do something that was written by machine, like I. There's
S2: a bit of old school ness going on in my
S2: world where I get wrapped around the axle on that stuff.
S2: I think there's absolutely good uses for it, but to
S2: me it's it's again, it's just a tool of a thing.
S2: It's not an actual it's not a machine that does anything.
S2: It it doesn't save anyone, solve anyone. Like, sure, it'll
S2: run a bunch of algorithms and maybe we we understand
S2: the thing better. Great. Guess what? You're still going to
S2: need a machine to action all of that data and Intel.
S2: And so I just find the constant obsession with software
S2: just just odd. I just yeah, I don't get it.
S2: I want us to focus on things that actually do
S2: stuff with the data, or create the data or use
S2: the data to actually affect change, rather than another software
S2: algorithm that needs humans to interact with it so that
S2: it can interact with itself. I just don't get it.
S1: Um. All right. So last question. Um, is around again,
S1: back to the founders. Um, and, you know, one of our, uh,
S1: our new investor at deluxe, Cam Cavanaugh, um, sent this, um,
S1: post around on WhatsApp talking about it was iconoclastic founders. Now,
S1: if you're not sure what that means, it was kind
S1: of like quirky founders with a bit of a glint
S1: in their eye. Uh, and we do reference you in this,
S1: and I'll take you back to the, um, this moment.
S1: But we were in Thredbo, uh, about two years ago
S1: at the summit retreat. So we took, I think, about
S1: 30 founders away to to Thredbo to, uh, you know,
S1: just hang out with each other and learn from each other. Um,
S1: and one of the nights we we got to know
S1: each other, and we played this game. Two truths in
S1: a lie. Uh, and I got to admit, there was
S1: a few margaritas involved, but, uh, I can't remember that. What?
S1: The three of you, there's two across the table, and
S1: your story was. I was the Kansas coleslaw wrestling champion,
S1: North Carolina. And we were like, uh, North Carolina. Sorry. Um,
S1: and we were like, well, that can't be true. So
S1: we started asking questions about it, and your answers were
S1: just so specific. But the answer is it's true. Um,
S1: which I found amazing. So I'd love to hear a
S1: little bit about that. But it did get us thinking.
S1: And this the post that cam sent around was pretty
S1: much to that point. It's like the best founders have
S1: something quirky or impressive, or just there's a glint in
S1: their eye or some discipline that just shows that they
S1: can burst through walls in order to achieve their outcome.
S1: So maybe tell us about the coleslaw wrestling. Uh, and
S1: then touching the, uh, is is that the trait that
S1: founders should have?
S2: I am fortunate to have had a very difficult life.
S2: So I was poor and living in my car, and
S2: I needed money. And there was $1,000. If you won
S2: the wrestling and coleslaw, um, event. And so I actually
S2: it's a little upside down. I didn't actually win it.
S2: The reason why it was my lie, because I wasn't
S2: the champion. I wrestled and I got, I got beaten
S2: by the chocolate pudding champion of the beat. But it
S2: was a it wasn't actually I wasn't actually beaten. I
S2: held her down twice. Um, but it was actually a
S2: setup because they never let anyone win. And this chick
S2: was six foot four and they'd never seen anyone beat her.
S2: And so she just would kept three other bucks and
S2: they kept the rest. And so there was this big
S2: uproar at Raleigh, uh, Raleigh radio the next day in, uh,
S2: North Carolina with a bunch of good old boys curling
S2: up and being like that goddamn Australian. She the one
S2: that she she beat that girl. And so, um, but, yeah, I,
S2: I wouldn't have wrestled in coleslaw, but I had no
S2: money and I had no food, and I needed to
S2: because I had a border collie and this four year
S2: old living in a key area. So I think, you know.
S2: I have a tenacity or an appearance of tenacity, because
S2: my resilience to really shit times is higher, because the
S2: worst of the worst day of my life is probably
S2: worse than most people's. And I think that's why immigrants
S2: probably tend to be founders, because they've come from, you know,
S2: places where there's less or not as much fortune or privilege. Um,
S2: they've had to struggle and fight for something and, or
S2: their parents have. And so they have that sort of
S2: past to them as a way of life. And so
S2: there's a different way or an approach to what surviving
S2: or making, making it means. Um, and I think, you know,
S2: just fortunately, my misfortune has given me that, uh, that pragmatism. But, um,
S2: you can't make it up, I think is the big one.
S2: And I think that's where sometimes it gets a little
S2: lost in the assessment of a founder. Um, you know,
S2: tenacity isn't necessarily boldness. Um, it isn't necessarily brashness or,
S2: you know, being loud or vivacious. It's sometimes the quiet
S2: ones that'll get you. I'm not a quiet one. Let's
S2: be real. But, um. No, but that, you know, I think. Yeah,
S2: you can't you can't bottle that stuff.
S1: But do you think it is broadly true that? I mean,
S1: I kind of think it is like the the best
S1: founders have something about them that is a little bit different. Yeah,
S1: you have.
S2: To because particularly in climate tech founded like imagine, a
S2: climate tech founder has seen a world that nobody else
S2: can see, a climate tech founders sitting in a black
S2: swan event every day and imagining the solution that solves
S2: for it. The problem with climate tech is that nobody
S2: agrees what that future is. If you ask ten people
S2: what a climate change world looks like, they'll give you
S2: ten different answers based on a variety of different inputs.
S2: But a climate tech founders looks forward and seeing the
S2: future and found and determined a solution for that future.
S2: And so they have to, but in some regard, not
S2: only be a contrarian, which is somewhat easy if you
S2: want to be, but they also have to be resolute
S2: to that belief and a doggedness to knowing that that's true. And,
S2: and and then I know that what's been most difficult
S2: is the ability to believe that you are right in
S2: the face of a thousand no's, a thousand people who
S2: have stopped believing in you and pulled the plug or
S2: backed away or whatever. Um, and then you've got to
S2: somehow go, they're wrong. All of them, nay, singular, still right,
S2: so still tenacity. And somehow that that specialness has got
S2: to be about staying alive and staying true to that belief.
S2: So yeah, they've got to be really fucking different.
S1: Yeah. Love it. Um. Thank you. All right. Um, and
S1: and thank you for being you. I mean, like, I
S1: think what you're doing for the community and for climate
S1: change and for women founders and deep tech founders is incredible. So, uh,
S1: you know, huge fan of what you're doing, Olympia. Um,
S1: if if someone wants to find out more or get
S1: a job or, uh, do anything else, we're working to
S1: find things easiest.
S2: Or you can get me on whatever. Cosmo.
S1: Yeah, or just Google Olympia. There's probably not too many
S1: of you.
S2: Know, I'm actually outranked. The neighbor's chick called Olympia. Now,
S2: on their you go search, which is nice.
S1: You are the only Olympia I know anyone.
S2: That matters in.
S1: Yeah. That's right. Um, now, we should do the quick
S1: fire round. I didn't actually check what you'd said before feeding,
S1: so maybe the questions are slightly different.
S2: Yeah.
S1: Oh, you got some new ones. Right. Great. So let's
S1: let's get some recommendations. So, uh, are you a book reader?
S1: If so, what would you recommend?
S2: Uh, I always recommend women who run with the Wolves. Um,
S2: I can't remember the woman's name it writes about. I
S2: read the damn thing at least once a year. And
S2: for any female, if you want to understand women and
S2: you understand, or you're a woman and want to understand yourself,
S2: knock yourself out.
S1: Women that run with the wolves. I will check that, um, podcast.
S1: Do you listen to podcast?
S2: Uh, I can't go past authentic. Uh agtech. So what?
S1: Oh that's Sarah. Sarah snorts. Yeah. She's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No,
S1: she is a great investor and a great person. Uh.
S1: News source. What do you use to stay up to date? Zero.
S2: Still.
S1: Is that right? You are the first one. I think
S1: that said that. And why? Why did you choose him?
S2: Al-Jazeera is the only journalistic, uh, medium right now that's
S2: still pursuing, uh, the use of non quantitative language when
S2: describing the news. So they won't use things they don't
S2: they don't use the word like guerrilla or insurgent. They
S2: just say combatants or um, and so they don't try
S2: to lead you to an assumption through connotation.
S1: Interesting. We'll check that out. And productivity tool. How do
S1: you stay efficient?
S2: Oh I hate productivity tools. Um, when we just moved
S2: over to notion and I can't not like it. It's
S2: actually really good. Yeah.
S1: Okay. Cool. Yeah. Uh, who is your favorite CEO?
S3: Tom Loeffler from.
S2: Hobart or Kate? No. Coming from, uh, black eye.
S1: Uh, yeah. Keaton is, uh, he's, uh, one of our
S1: portfolio companies. Great guy.
S2: And absolutely super.
S1: Smart. Yeah, yeah. Love what he's doing. Um. Favorite app?
S1: What do you do for fun in your phone?
S2: I, uh, escape from reality with Instagram, which I am ashamed,
S2: ashamed to admit. Yeah. So gardening and horse riding Instagram
S2: are cool.
S1: And, uh, are you a content producer, too? Like, can
S1: we follow you and you can follow me?
S2: I'm not a I'm a terrible content producer. I'm the
S2: world's greatest boya. Um, but yeah. Yeah.
S1: Um. Yeah. Interesting. I've got to admit, I've never got
S1: into Instagram. I've tried it a few times. Maybe I
S1: just need to be younger or less dorky, or some
S1: old LinkedIn and a bit Twitter. For me.
S2: I think it's I think it's absolutely more about, um,
S2: the just the dopamine scroll thing for me. Um, and yeah,
S2: with a husband in Special Forces, I cannot be on TikTok, so.
S1: Right. Yeah, that's who we are.
S2: Yeah.
S1: I mean, I quite like the YouTube shorts. I mean,
S1: they do a pretty good job, and they seem to know,
S1: you know, what you like, you know, and it's just
S1: weird how they kind of get on this. You know,
S1: I watched one sumo wrestling match on YouTube, and then
S1: for weeks, all I saw was sumo wrestling. Yeah. And,
S1: you know, I quite liked it, but then I kind
S1: of go over it, and I think YouTube realized I
S1: was probably getting over it and then showed me Norwegian
S1: death diving. Yeah. Which like so yeah.
S2: It's like the algorithms are annoying because it's like, I
S2: don't want to be in an echo chamber. So again,
S2: I usually I'll like scroll for about ten minutes and
S2: then I'll try to change my own algorithm to something else,
S2: which is always just a big fun game. So.
S1: Yeah. Exactly. Um, all right. We're almost there. Um, TV show,
S1: what do you watch if you got time?
S2: Oh, God, I'm so predictable. Yellowstone is sort of the fave. Um,
S2: has been the fave for the minute. Um, and and
S2: I really, really like Vikings.
S1: What was that?
S2: Flying kicks Vikings.
S1: Oh Vikings.
S2: Right. Yeah. Unashamedly.
S1: And why did you like Vikings.
S2: I just I know a bit of aggression. It was
S2: well done. It's well developed but mostly the aggression a
S2: bit of violence just kept just shocked and not thinking
S2: about go.
S1: Yeah those they were they were good conquerors the Vikings.
S2: Yeah for sure.
S1: Yeah I think I've got some Viking blood in.
S2: Oh look out. You know you'd have to be because
S2: I came around and got knocked you guys all the time.
S1: And my mom's maiden name is Anderson, so she's kind
S1: of definitely something. Interesting.
S2: Yeah. Cool. Yeah.
S1: All right, last question. Uh, and I don't know what
S1: you answered the last time, but your TEDx topic, if
S1: you got asked to do a Ted talk, what would
S1: you talk about?
S2: Oh, God. Um. I think these days, I, I probably
S2: talk about I always get stuck here because it's just always, like,
S2: such a it feels to, um, so I, I reckon
S2: it'd be something along the lines of like what, what
S2: what building climate tech means and how to how to
S2: think about building climate tech. It has to be something
S2: along those lines these days. Yeah, I.
S1: Was going to say it's got to be in the climate. Oh,
S1: it doesn't have to be. I mean, I would be
S1: surprised if it wasn't in that space. Yeah. Um. All right, look,
S1: we're approaching the era, so I think we are officially
S1: out of time. Uh, I love doing it. Next time,
S1: we should do it face to face. Yeah, that'd be fun.
S1: Audio quality. It'd be better. Um. And it'd be nice
S1: to get down to Canberra. You know, there's some great
S1: deep tech startups in Canberra. Uh, awesome.
S2: Good ones. Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Including, um, you know, uh, yeah. Uh, from centre. Yeah.
S1: So another, uh, woman led deep tech company, like, again,
S1: it's a, uh, deluxe portfolio. So we saw them, uh,
S1: when I was down there last week, and they're just
S1: doing an amazing job. Yeah. Um, so big fan of hers. Um,
S1: and Canberra, just generally. I mean, I think it's it's
S1: a little under some, uh, in the startup arena, but
S1: the Anu and some of those, um, uh, science schools
S1: are churning out some great companies. Yeah, yeah.
S2: No, there's some really good stuff out there. It's going
S2: to be a hell of a good year. We just
S2: need to make sure they get funded.
S1: Yeah. Agreed.
S2: All right.
S1: Olympia. Thank you. Take care. I'll see you soon. And thanks,
S1: everyone for tuning in.