S1: Hi, everyone. Ian here now. I love it when I
S1: get to hear stories that I didn't know too much about.
S1: I'd heard of Harrison I before, but I didn't know
S1: a huge amount about it. It's a pretty amazing story.
S1: On the show today, we have the CEO and one
S1: of the founders, Angus Tran, who along with his brother Dmitri,
S1: started Harrison AI a few years ago. I thought he
S1: might have been Scottish being called Angus, but he's actually
S1: originally from or they are both originally from Vietnam. Look,
S1: and it's an amazing story. They've gone on to raise
S1: $121 Million from investors such as Skip Blackbird Horizons and
S1: a few other fairly specialist medical companies. And it's pretty
S1: amazing what they're doing. They're using AI not in the
S1: what we've all been playing with and hearing about and
S1: the generative AI census. It's using computer vision and AI
S1: to help look at images and help the medical professionals
S1: make better diagnoses. And it's seems to be doing really well.
S1: I mean, they're they have a podcast. It's called Millions
S1: because their ambition is to to impact the lives of
S1: millions of patients every day. So it's a great story.
S1: Really loved meeting Angus's is a remarkable guy. And yeah,
S1: let's jump over and hear my interview with Angus Tran. Welcome, everyone.
S1: I am sitting here with Dr. Angus Tran, who is
S1: from Harrison. I came to the middle of Haymarket, and
S1: this is the first for me because he actually has
S1: his own podcast studio. So I was all set to
S1: unpack my sort of slightly dodgy backpack with my my
S1: own studio and in I walk and he's got the
S1: full broadcaster and a couple of microphones. So yeah, I
S1: was pretty happy to see this. Angus So thank you. Welcome. Look,
S1: it's a remarkable story. I knew a little bit about
S1: Harrison before we agreed to do the podcast. Why don't
S1: we start with the basics? Why didn't you tell us
S1: a little bit about what Harrison does and then we'll
S1: go into the the Origin story a bit. So over
S1: to you.
S2: Yeah, thanks. Thanks for coming in and talk to us today.
S2: So Harrison really started with the problem Statement of healthcare capacity.
S2: So when we look around the world, one of the
S2: biggest problem of our time is how do we look
S2: after such a huge population with increased health needs? Most
S2: economies are spending a huge amount of their GDP on health,
S2: and this is actually going up over time. And one
S2: particular problem in health is very difficult to solve is
S2: the human capacity being trained as a doctors from University
S2: of New South. Well, I know to take a long
S2: time to train physicians and unfortunately, human way doesn't scale
S2: very well. So where does this off led us is
S2: around the world. There's a huge capacity shortage across specialities
S2: domain like radiology and pathology And what it mean to
S2: the everyday Australian and global citizens is that, you know,
S2: when you go and get a chest X-ray done, it's
S2: just taking much longer for those scan to be interpreted.
S2: And when they do get interpret more mistake crops in
S2: because people are working faster than they ever have. So
S2: for Harrison, what we're looking to do is to scale
S2: global capacity of healthcare by building automation with AI systems
S2: and provide clinicians with a superpowers of scale. And I
S2: believe that of all the things we're doing in healthcare,
S2: scale is going to be one of the key solution
S2: to improve quality of care globally.
S1: So essentially computer vision that we're talking about here.
S2: Yeah, that's right. So when most of the work are
S2: we doing now at Harrison and and Franklin are center
S2: around medical imaging analysis. But it's not really not limited
S2: to that. It's really within the realms of using AI
S2: and processing model to do what would have taken a
S2: trained physician a lot of time and effort to be
S2: able to conduct. And of course that scale much better
S2: being a software technology.
S1: And I've seen there were others playing in this space
S1: that sort of computer vision to analyze medical imaging. What's
S1: the competitive space like and why are you different?
S2: Yeah, I think it's a really good question. You know,
S2: when we started the journey close to four years ago now,
S2: one of the things that we were looking around and
S2: observing is that there was a lot of companies around
S2: that was focusing on computer vision and medical imaging. But
S2: one of the striking observation that we made is that
S2: everyone was being very narrow. So rather than building tools
S2: that are comprehensive and broad, they would only build tool
S2: that detect 1 or 2 findings. For example, in a
S2: chest X-ray, they would look at lung cancer in CT brain,
S2: they would look at brain bleeds. But for us, you know,
S2: we really believe because we are clinician, that we know
S2: that for it to be a useful tool, it need
S2: to actually be comprehensive and cover all the breadth of
S2: findings in that imaging modality. Imagine building a spellchecker, but
S2: you're to only check for word starting with letter A.
S2: Where people really want an A to Z. Spellchecker So
S2: that is the major tenet that we sort of went
S2: after at Harrison and analyzed. And that's the key differentiation
S2: for us, is building a broad set of AI that
S2: can cover the entire imaging modality rather than point solution.
S1: Yeah. All right. Let's maybe jump back to the origin
S1: story and you a little bit more. So when I
S1: first saw your name, I thought, Angus, the guy must
S1: be Scottish, but you don't say in Scottish. And it
S1: spelt slightly different. So I mean, where does your name
S1: come from and where are you from?
S2: Yeah. So my story, the two co-founder of the Harrison business,
S2: myself and my brother Demetri Tran, we both grew up
S2: in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam. It's a lovely place.
S2: I came to Australia for year nine. I was studying
S2: in high school in Australia and then eventually going on
S2: to study medicine and now finding the business.
S1: And your parents moved here with you, is that right?
S1: Or did they send.
S2: You know, they they at the time they were still
S2: living and working in Hochman City. Okay. So Dimitri went
S2: over first, being the first son that went to Australia,
S2: and then I came over just after. So we were
S2: international student and, and growing up in, in Vietnam, we have,
S2: of course, Vietnamese name, but it's very long and I'm
S2: not sure if you have many friends who are Vietnamese.
S2: There's multiple syllables, right? And the pronunciation is always often butcher.
S2: So we always thought, okay, we're going to Australia, let's
S2: find an Anglo sounding name. And a lot of people
S2: don't know this, but when I was growing up in Vietnam,
S2: I really enjoyed rapping. And, you know, I have a
S2: stage name called Angus, which is sort of like a
S2: re-arrange of word of my actual Vietnamese name and sound
S2: quite similar. My Vietnamese name is NG so. Ang Yeah.
S2: So I thought, well, let's, let's go with it. So
S2: when I land in Australia, just having this English name
S2: called Angus.
S1: Tran, but it's n g us, So did you throw
S1: the extra in and how.
S2: Come? Well, I mean, not only not until I landed
S2: in Australia, I realised that the spelling without an E
S2: is much more common. But this is just something that
S2: went up and look up online and it just happened
S2: to be the first thing to show up.
S1: So I guess it's I love it. It's unique. I
S1: don't think there's any challenge with it. And there's plenty
S1: of famous Angus like Angus Young from AC DC best
S1: Scottish Australian band ever did. You know they were half Scottish?
S2: I don't know this.
S1: Yeah, all right. Anyway.
S2: But the good news is, every time I sign up
S2: for anything, Angus Tran is always available.
S1: I can. I can believe it. Yeah. So and maybe
S1: a little bit more on your, your background story. So
S1: you came here year nine. What was your English like?
S2: You know, was terrible. We did some basic English courses
S2: in Vietnam as part of just the curriculum, but took
S2: a little while. I remember first class that I attended
S2: in Australia was a was an Aussie teacher trying to
S2: teach me about Shakespeare. And it was like, this is
S2: this is not going to go well for me, you know,
S2: And but I was quite fortunate. So the school I
S2: went to didn't have many Vietnamese international students. So naturally
S2: the only way to communicate is English or was forced
S2: to pick it up quite quickly. And yeah, eventually it
S2: really felt like Sydney is home like now. I felt
S2: very connected to Sydney and Australia. I recently became Australian citizen.
S1: Congrats.
S2: Well done.
S1: So the mayor of wherever it was serve you VB
S1: and give you a lamington. That's why I got.
S2: I didn't get if I got a flack. Oh, there
S2: you go. Recently I also.
S1: Got a tree that I killed within a week, so
S1: that was accidental. But yeah, it's pretty cool with ceremony though.
S1: So well done. That's awesome. Um, yeah. So you're obviously
S1: smart and motivated, which helped you with, I guess that that,
S1: you know, getting over that cultural indoctrination and the English
S1: stuff and you went on to, to uni, you did medicine.
S1: Did you always want to be a doctor? So tell them,
S1: tell us about that journey.
S2: Yeah. So I, I always knew that I enjoy tinkering.
S2: I like building things. That's been true since I was
S2: a little boy. And I always thought I was going
S2: to be an engineer. My my mother recently reminded me
S2: that she was very surprised. I end up studying medicine,
S2: but roughly around when I was in year 12 and
S2: was doing my my HSC, that's when I met Mr.
S2: Paul Ramsay, who was from Ramsay Health Care. Ramsay Yeah,
S2: And Paul was very kind. He was very nice to
S2: me in Dimitri and, and he's the one that sort
S2: of introduced me into medicine.
S1: And he always mean Ramsay Health care. For those that
S1: don't know, it's a massive Aussie. It's also global.
S2: It's a massive private health, private hospital organization. And Paul
S2: is asked me, Hey, Angus, you like engineering, You like
S2: to build stuff, but what is it? You can actually build. Yeah.
S2: Building thing is in a career, you know, it's what
S2: problem you're looking to solve. And he said, you know,
S2: medicine is really worthwhile and big problem for you to
S2: sink your teeth in. But unfortunately, you can learn about
S2: programming in a book online courses. But medicine is an experience.
S2: Medicine is an apprenticeships. So say why don't you go
S2: and study medicine and then maybe you can apply your
S2: technology and your tinkering, natural curiosity and tinkering capabilities into medicine.
S2: So I thought, you know, graduate from year 12, apply
S2: for medicine and, and, and the rest was was history. Yeah.
S1: And look for those out there. I think that, you know,
S1: having a random connection with Paul Ramsay of the world
S1: like how did that connection come around Because that's obviously
S1: been instrumental.
S2: Yeah. So Dimitri was working for Ramsey Healthcare at the
S2: time at Head of Strategy, looking after Paul investment and
S2: other things. So Paul is very personable. So, you know,
S2: he always asked about all the people that work for him,
S2: their family, and he wanted to be connected to, to
S2: the people that work for him. So, you know, occasionally
S2: you have an opportunity to go along with Dimitri to
S2: meet Paul during social events and things. And he over time,
S2: he always take an interest in in what I was
S2: doing at school and my interest in technology. So that's
S2: a couple of opportunities where where I got to be
S2: inspired about health care and led me down to the
S2: path that I am today, doing it in a dramatic scale.
S1: Yeah, I don't want to lose the, the, the, the
S1: timeline that we've got here, but Ramsay Healthcare as an
S1: investor in the business. So it's obviously worked out pretty well.
S1: That's right. So let's come back to that. So I
S1: want to understand how you went from being or graduating
S1: in medicine. I mean, did you work as a doctor?
S1: I mean, how did you move from being a doctor
S1: or a wannabe doctor to being a founder?
S2: So why was going through medicine? You know, one of
S2: the things that I slowly noticing as I progressed through
S2: was how how much of medicine was missing that scare element.
S2: Being a technologist, I was seduced by the notions that
S2: you can have a great idea and then you can
S2: deploy that behind a massive autoscale cluster and that great
S2: idea scale infinitely medicine as I knew it when I
S2: was practicing it and it was going through training was
S2: a complete opposite of that, right? You show up to work,
S2: you see ten patients on your shift and that is
S2: the extent that you could really impact the the the
S2: people that are in need. So constantly throwing medicine, I
S2: was looking at ways to apply technology into this. In fact,
S2: I was so seduced by that. Even starting out a
S2: startup in in ticketing apps that we ultimately no longer
S2: working in. But I was very interested in that all along.
S2: Medicine and during the final years of training, I got
S2: involved in in a in a research project initially called
S2: IVF II, where we was building I was doing technology
S2: along with vertex health to select human embryos. Oh, yeah.
S2: So this is the final year of my training, and
S2: that really opened my eye into the capabilities of AI
S2: system and how it can scale a very good idea
S2: in medicine. So ultimately, after I graduated, rather than going
S2: on and practicing medicine like everyone else would have, I decided, Hey,
S2: that's a very different way of practicing medicine that involve
S2: building great technology, being clinician led. But, you know, rather
S2: than practicing medicine, you can build tools, enable others to
S2: practice at scale. So that's when I take the plunge
S2: to to start Harrison and me and Dimitri, my my brother,
S2: we co-founded a business around 2018, 2019.
S1: So that's pretty much as soon as you came out.
S1: That's right.
S2: So I never went on to actually practicing medicine in,
S2: in hospital here in Sydney. Yeah, but I consider myself
S2: doing medicine now.
S1: No, I didn't write this in my notes, but when
S1: I was looking at your LinkedIn profile last night, I
S1: saw vision bites on there. Is that right? Was that you?
S2: Yeah, I did an internship there. Yeah.
S1: So. But you were you were coding compression algorithms or
S1: something along those lines, which sounded to me when I
S1: read because I actually knew vision breaks because I used
S1: to run a video streaming business and we used to
S1: come up against them competitively. So when I saw it,
S1: I was like, Hang on, this guy's a doctor and
S1: running a medical startup. How were you doing compression algorithms
S1: at the same time?
S2: Yeah. So when I was going through training, I like
S2: I said, I was very curious about technology and vision.
S2: It was one of Pole's investment at the time.
S1: That's right. Yeah.
S2: Remember that? Yeah. And then I. I went on to
S2: do an internship there where I went in with the
S2: team and spend I think I can't remember how long,
S2: but quite a decent amount of time there with, with
S2: the guys to, to learn about, you know, production software
S2: development And it was a great experience for me.
S1: All right. So you started Harrison, you said 2018, so
S1: it's actually not that long. So five years. That's about
S1: the time I left. So you've done a lot more
S1: with your life in those five years than I feel
S1: I've done with mine. So it's pretty amazing journey. So
S1: why don't we start with where you're at and then
S1: we'll work our way back. So what can you tell
S1: us about Harrison? Because you've got some different products. You've
S1: raised quite a lot of money. I mean, how big
S1: is the team? You know, tell us what you like
S1: about where it is at now.
S2: Yeah, I mean, talk about a couple of dimensions, right? So,
S2: you know, we talk about the product I mentioned. So
S2: we we have two business. One is in radiology and
S2: the other one is in pathology. The business in radiology
S2: is co analyst. So it's it's a company that focus
S2: specifically on medical imaging and radiology. So X-ray and CT
S2: and on Franklin. That's the business, the focusing on pathology.
S2: So biopsies are prostate breast biopsy and other kind. So
S2: we have two product that is currently in market. So
S2: the first one is our comprehensive chest X-ray algorithms, and
S2: the second one is the CT brain algorithm. Each comprehensive
S2: so can detect hundreds of clinical features in this radiology modality.
S2: So that allows patients to get very rapid diagnosis automatically
S2: with AI. And then the clinicians is doing the validate
S2: validation and checking on Franklin. Sy, You know, that started
S2: a little bit later. So we are currently in product
S2: development for our first algorithm in pathology for prostate AI.
S2: So it's a tool that will allow pathologists to automate
S2: a lot of their tedious work in prostate biopsy. So
S2: those are the, the current product development that we have. Um.
S1: And can you talk about a number of customers or
S1: a number of patients that you're impacting?
S2: Yeah, absolutely. So in, in the field of radiology, we
S2: now regulatory clear in 38 different countries, including FDA clearance
S2: in Australia. We are now being used by.
S1: So I'll just pause there. I mean 38 countries with
S1: full regulatory clearance. I mean that I mean, I'm not
S1: a medtech expert, but that sounds like it was a
S1: lot of work to do that.
S2: I mean, it's a it's a massive lift. So, you know,
S2: we started out in Australia to in New Zealand and
S2: then going on to get CMA, which is the clearance
S2: for the European countries. We also have clearing in the
S2: UK to distribute our product as well as FDA is
S2: it's own separate efforts. It's slightly different for the rest
S2: of the world, but those are the clearance that we
S2: currently possessing from a usage perspective. We have customer now
S2: in the UK, customer in Australia and New Zealand and
S2: also in Asia and in Australia alone. Last year we
S2: did over a million live touch throughout technology. And you know,
S2: today 1 in 4 Australian radiologists is using our technology
S2: for the scans that they read every single day. So
S2: it was really remarkable. Adoptions for MedTech, that.
S1: Is say that again, 1 in 4 radiologists use your
S1: take for the scans. They do. That's right. I mean,
S1: that's massive.
S2: I mean the chance is if you go down to
S2: a radiology clinic in a community today, which likely going
S2: to be a private one and get a chest X-ray
S2: done or you go to a hospital near you and
S2: have a CT brain done in wonderful chance is probably
S2: going to be interpreted by our system that we put
S2: in there.
S1: So you sell to the hospitals and the you know,
S1: the sort of, you know, what they call the the
S1: the roll ups. That's the wrong word. But the.
S2: Yeah, the culprit.
S1: Yes.
S2: So so ultimately, our customers are service delivery organization. Right?
S2: So that could be the public sector. So a lot
S2: of health around the world are funded by the public sector.
S2: They procure technology that enable better and faster delivery of service.
S2: And then the other group are the private group who
S2: who grow up the clinics and and supply that as
S2: a private service. Ultimately, the product that we're selling to
S2: them is capacity. Even though the company is called Harrison.
S2: I ultimately what we're doing is to sell them ability
S2: to interpret scan at the time and place that otherwise
S2: wouldn't have been possible. And we're doing that just so
S2: happen with AI at the moment. You know, for example,
S2: if you live in a rural region and middle of
S2: the night, you show up to an Ed department, there
S2: won't be any radiologists there. And luckily a very a
S2: clinician that is less skilled in interpreting those image. We
S2: need to make an assessment of the life and that
S2: assessment about the treatment path that you're likely to receive.
S2: The what do we want to live in is where
S2: those clinicians are supported with an always on AI system
S2: that can comprehensively interpret those images, just like Star Trek,
S2: where you walked in the eye, look at it and
S2: say there's a brain bleeds or there's lung nodules and
S2: it's like magic. They have access to the capacity of
S2: radiology that otherwise wouldn't be there. So that's the world
S2: that we are trying to build here at Harrison.
S1: Yeah, that's amazing. Now, AI is hot right now. I mean,
S1: we've talked about this in the on the show over
S1: the last few months, but it's not all about generative
S1: AI And you were doing AI before generative AI came along.
S1: So do you want to give us your impression on
S1: AI and whether or not this heat in the market
S1: is good or not? Because it's yeah, it's not generative
S1: AI that you're doing.
S2: Yeah, I mean, actually, I like to answer this with
S2: maybe a question for you. I mean, because this is
S2: something that I've been thinking about a lot recently with
S2: generative AI and other things. If you go and have
S2: a chest X-ray today at the radiology, like near you
S2: and the radiologist just asked ChatGPT or the last language model,
S2: write me an x ray report for you. And how
S2: would you feel about that?
S1: Yeah, probably not great.
S2: But but I'm curious why why, Why is it not great?
S1: Well, look, it depends if if it's based on data
S1: and it's just rewriting a couple of bullet points, that's
S1: probably not so bad because it's not making shit up
S1: as some people see in their benefits. If it is
S1: just going off rogue and making up data, then it
S1: would be a bit different. So if it's if it's
S1: a report based on actual data, I think it'll be fine. Yeah.
S1: If it's a report that is not based on data,
S1: it's not. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. You you really hit the nail on this head there.
S2: And it's this piece that I'm thinking about, which is
S2: language is not knowledge, right? So there's sun domain where
S2: the whole business is about generating really good language. For instance,
S2: you know, if you want to rewrite an email or
S2: you want to produce some creative content and explore different possibility,
S2: and the idea there is that the content is provided
S2: and it's really about some creative exploration. Then generator is
S2: going to make a massive impact. But in in health specifically,
S2: we are in a pursuit of truth, in the pursuit
S2: of knowledge. We want to know what truly is wrong
S2: with the patient. So what we want out of these
S2: systems are validate validated facts that are very accurate in
S2: the 99.99% accuracy. That's what we want because the stake
S2: is incredibly high. So I think that for this sort
S2: of generative AI piece in healthcare specifically, it won't be
S2: the kind of technology that you imagine where the AI
S2: just write a report, but be more, you know, the
S2: kind of approach that we're taking where we're predicting individual
S2: findings and doing that at incredible accuracy and validating that
S2: and taking that to regulatory clearance so that we know
S2: that it's safe and effective and that that is the
S2: direction that we are currently taking through.
S1: I know. That's cool. I mean, look, I think it's
S1: completely valid. I mean, there's there's plenty of companies out
S1: there that are having a real impact. And I think
S1: to your point, is it really the best founders in
S1: this space? Think about scale and using AI to help
S1: them scale. Yeah, and I love your I think it's
S1: pretty clear in your website and as I walk through
S1: the office here, it's on the walls. I mean, what's
S1: your mission statement is to impact a million. Like don't
S1: let me.
S2: Now North Star is to touch a million patients, live
S2: through a day, actually through the collective reach of all
S2: of the product that we built. Yeah, we're only single
S2: digit percentage in this very ambitious mission. But when we
S2: do that, it will dramatically change how health care is deliver.
S1: Yeah, I mean, so that's. Yeah, I'm looking behind your head.
S1: There's a neon sign that says Millions, which is the
S1: name of your podcast, I believe. So Is that where
S1: it's derived from?
S2: Yeah, that's, that's the reference to that. And it really
S2: come down to, to this piece on how do we
S2: benchmark our performance, How do we know how to prioritize
S2: against what we do? And having a very clear North
S2: Star that you know, very well understood and articulated among
S2: the team here at Harrison, give us guidance in terms
S2: of what problem is too small to to and what
S2: problem is big. And ultimately for us here, we wake
S2: up every day and inspired by the notions that we
S2: can build great technology and that will improve quality of care.
S2: But we can do that at scale. Yeah, and that's
S2: that's the whole fundamental purpose behind Harrison mission.
S1: Let's maybe jump back to the the commercials behind the business.
S1: So I mean, you obviously make money by selling to
S1: the hospitals and health providers. Like how do you charge
S1: like what's what's the model.
S2: Yeah. So at the moment the way we're thinking through
S2: this is we really selling the, the offset in capacity
S2: right at the moment. If you have a chest x
S2: ray done, the radiologist will get paid. The Medicare reimbursement
S2: would be like say $45 for a chest x ray.
S2: And you know, a significant proportion of that would be
S2: for Labor, for radiologists, interpret it if radiologist was available. Yeah.
S2: So analyze technology for example in radiology is about providing
S2: capacity where there's none. So that could be in a
S2: radiology department at night in rural region or perhaps, you know,
S2: in places where radiologists is less trained, like more junior radiologists,
S2: we provide a capacity lift. So it's based on post
S2: scan model. So a lot of the the customer in
S2: public and private sector will give us a volume. We
S2: would quote them a contract for that volume typically over
S2: multiple years and like product is tend to be a
S2: longer contract, longer sale cycle as well. But that is
S2: how we think through this. The nice thing is even
S2: though it's a medical device technology, the sort of profile
S2: is very similar to SAS product because of the of
S2: the development investment is upfront and the cost of delivery
S2: is very close to to SaaS like product. And what
S2: that means for us ultimately scale, right? Because you know,
S2: it doesn't cost us another radiologist to do another million scans. Yeah.
S1: And is it purely just talking about the infrastructure and
S1: the tech stack? Is it all cloud based?
S2: So we have a mixture model. You know, the the
S2: health system unfortunately still have a bit of a split
S2: in terms of cloud option versus more, you know, on
S2: prem lockdown. So we have a hybrid stack that allow
S2: our technology to deploy in both. Interestingly, we also have
S2: an edge device model where we have a technology called
S2: Analytics Edge, which is a technology that can embed the
S2: AI directly on X-ray machine itself. Okay. So in places
S2: where there's no Internet service or no infrastructure, we can
S2: deploy the AI into a chest X-ray machine and turn
S2: it into a self-driving X-ray machine and would mean that
S2: a clinician will have the X-ray, can get the service
S2: right at the bedside.
S1: Another challenges with keeping that tech stack updated, I mean,
S1: like being pure cloud is great for most people, but
S1: I get the challenges. You've got firewalls and shitty connections
S1: and all the rest of it, but yeah, how are
S1: you updating the the tick when, when you do a
S1: product release?
S2: Yeah. I mean, so for the cloud deployment we can
S2: do pretty simple deployment through that because we have control
S2: of that. But for, for on premise, we need to
S2: have a customer success team and the professional service team
S2: that go and actually do this. The slight difference about
S2: what we do in traditional tech is that, you know,
S2: the every time we we have a regressions, patients might
S2: be affected. Right? One of our major value is that
S2: great opportunities is great responsibility. So we have this great
S2: potential to impact life, possibly at scale. But what it
S2: ultimately means is that, you know, everything we do is
S2: more rigorous. So most of the engineers at Harrison come
S2: from medical device background or defense background. Because ultimately we're
S2: not shipping code every day. You know, we have to
S2: ship us location in that because it regulatory clear clearance
S2: is required. But that means that we have sort of
S2: a more methodical and more deliberate process of validating our
S2: stuff before we ship it. Yeah.
S1: We should talk about funding because, I mean, I know
S1: the punchline here. I think others might as well. But
S1: when you hear about 38 countries with regulatory approval, a
S1: fairly complex tech stack sailing with customer support, people across
S1: the board, you're going to have a lot of staff.
S1: And in order to do that, you've obviously needed to
S1: raise some money. So tell us about the funding and
S1: what you've done and who is it from and what
S1: you've used it for if you could?
S2: Yeah. So for when we first started the journey, we
S2: knew right away that there was no such thing as
S2: MVP in medicine. True? You know, No. Nobody wanted to
S2: buy an MVP. Penicillin? No. With some some features missing.
S2: So we knew that it's always going to be a
S2: big push to build full product that are well developed
S2: and well clear, and that required a commensurate level of
S2: investment for that because the opportunity is is worth it. Right.
S2: We're talking about one of the biggest health industry in
S2: the world, which is health care, which acute shortage opportunities large.
S2: So we go for it. So at the start, we're
S2: really looking for investors who understand the deep tech space,
S2: understand the medical device space being well aligned to that.
S2: So we have investors coming from sort of two different pool.
S2: The first one is a venture capital investor. So we
S2: have Horizon Ventures, so backers of DeepMind and Horizon, you
S2: know well, most seasoned investors who's on our cap table.
S2: We have Blackbird here in Australia supporting us from the
S2: very beginning and and skip capital. So from the Kim
S2: and Scott family office. Um, and then on the other side,
S2: which is equally important for us, are the corporate investors.
S2: So these are strategic investors. So the other people on
S2: the cap table are sonic healthcare. I met radiology and
S2: like you said, Ramsay as well. So these are people
S2: who deeply understand healthcare, who, you know, sort of stand
S2: behind us to back the technology in the problem statement
S2: that we are trying to solve. And among that, you know,
S2: we've raised capital over the last few years across Syria
S2: and Syria be today close to $129 million raised so
S2: far to to build the radiology and pathology solutions.
S1: So that was Australia. Australian Australian, Yeah. I think Crunchbase
S1: it said 130 mil.
S2: Yeah. So 129 to 129.
S1: Normally crunchbase is US dollars, isn't it?
S2: I think US is like 100 now.
S1: Okay. Anyway, look, the point is, I mean, it's significant.
S1: I mean, that's you're definitely one of the better funded
S1: startups out there and I think a little under the radar.
S1: And maybe it's because you're in med tech and you
S1: don't need to wave your arms and turn up all
S1: the startup events and and think you're going to be
S1: the next Atlassian because it's a slightly different model. But
S1: I mean, what's the scale of your ambition? That's kind
S1: of the the backup to that. So where are you going?
S2: Yeah. So it is, first of all, a global problem
S2: that we're solving. So every year there's a billion chest
S2: X-ray get done globally and that is really our addressable market.
S2: The majority of that would be digitized. Second biggest modality
S2: from chest X-ray is CT brain, you know, over 3
S2: to 400 million CT brain tons a year globally. So
S2: the scale of the problem is there. In fact, from
S2: a supply perspective, the radiology capacity around the world is
S2: actually going down. So in the UK, in, for example,
S2: the backlog of unread scan is increasing every year and
S2: AI is now at a tipping point where it's really
S2: going to be a big solution for that, even locally
S2: in Australia. Just on Saturday there was a front page
S2: article in Sydney Morning Herald that talk about local health
S2: district here in Sydney, in Concord, where there's such acute
S2: shortage of radiologists, that physician is now fearing for the
S2: safety of patients because they have a big backlog of
S2: cases that unread, which could contain live trending findings unless
S2: they do something about it. So the problem is acute
S2: is a growing problem and the scale is there. So
S2: that's what we're looking to go after by building a
S2: technology that can automate many of this part. And we're
S2: not looking to replace radiologists or physician, but what we're
S2: looking to do is fill capacity gap and moving those
S2: clinicians to practicing more closer to the top of the
S2: degree and doing higher level cognitive problem solving rather than
S2: the mundane pixel analysis task, which we believe I would
S2: do much better and will be able to do that
S2: at a much bigger scale.
S1: Some thoughts I want to ask you about the current market.
S1: I mean, we're probably a year into I'd say a
S1: year into what is a bit of a tech downturn.
S1: And these things normally last a year or two years,
S1: year and a half, two years. And it's hard know.
S1: So if you're a late stage company, then raising money
S1: right now, it's not impossible, but you just have had
S1: to hit all of your metrics and ticking along quite nicely.
S1: And you're seeing examples of companies struggling different, you know,
S1: had to go into administration last last week. And I
S1: suspect it's the start of a few others. And I
S1: won't ask specifically about Harrison unless you want to touch
S1: on that. But broadly speaking, like what's your observation of
S1: that late stage funding market and when's it going to turn?
S2: I mean, for for us, we are quite fortunate because
S2: we raise our last round in 2019. We still have
S2: a significant portion of the funding that we've raised and
S2: perhaps we were there at the right time. So, so far,
S2: you know, we still continue to have very strong runway,
S2: continue to develop the product and growing the team. So
S2: perhaps those trend is something that, you know, we sort
S2: of avoided based on our timing. But more broadly, I think,
S2: you know, the market has shifted dramatically toward prioritizing different
S2: metrics than it has in the past and for different
S2: sectors as well. So, you know, I think people are
S2: really focusing on profitability, but also understanding the moat as well.
S2: So of this growth and sustainable growth, but also growth
S2: with defendable moat is very important at the moment. And
S2: what that ultimately means is if you look across the board,
S2: there are business that are very well positioned for long
S2: term growth with defendable position is still doing quite well
S2: at this, at least at this early stage, sorry, the
S2: latest stage. So for instance, in medical device, you know,
S2: and health, you know, the health tech space has experienced
S2: less of some of that trend comparing to the other sector.
S2: But likewise, if you if you look at AI, it's
S2: really been a big theme because there's suddenly an element
S2: of that is, is is hype. And element of that
S2: is just people seeing the headline. But fundamentally, if you
S2: peel that back, there's also a technology, real technology breakthrough
S2: that enable new application, new use case. So we still
S2: see growth in that and still very strong interest for
S2: a story like what we're doing, where we applying great
S2: technology like AI and trying to scale very big problem
S2: like health care. Yeah.
S1: I want to jump back to to you, Angus, and
S1: just about your skills. I mean, I love meeting young
S1: founders like you who've done what you've done so far.
S1: How how do you think about upscaling your skills as,
S1: as you've grown the business because you came out of uni,
S1: you started this business and within five years you're backed
S1: by Skip and Blackbird and Horizon and everything else. It's
S1: an amazing story. How have you upskilled yourself?
S2: Yeah, it's a continuous growth journey. You know, like many
S2: other founders, I spend quite deliberate time during my week
S2: in growth because I, you know, very quickly in the
S2: early days of Harrison realized that the company just happened
S2: to stall at the same level of growth that me
S2: and Dimitri was was at any given point in time. So,
S2: you know, from the first day I was engineer number one,
S2: very quickly become a tech leader, one of a handful
S2: into multiple AI team working on multiple product and then
S2: stepping up now leading the the multiple teams across two
S2: different very different domains like radiology and pathology. So it's
S2: a constant transformation. You know, every year is a new year.
S2: And my role and what the business need me to
S2: be is different. So therefore, you know, we spend a
S2: huge amount of time on on personal development and growth
S2: at the moment. I think the key piece for me
S2: is that leadership piece and how to to lead the
S2: organization through, you know, big choices like, you know, product
S2: roadmap and priorities go to market priorities and which country
S2: we prioritize. And that requires huge amount of learning, which,
S2: you know, we've been very lucky in Australia and ecosystem
S2: and startup being able to tap into great people like,
S2: you know, Kim and Scott, But also the Alaskan team
S2: has always been very helpful as well and offering a
S2: lot of advice and support along the way. So certainly
S2: a lot of help here in Australia.
S1: You've definitely got the right people in your cap table.
S1: You know, like Scott and Mike are, you know, the
S1: classic example we started in their in their garage or
S1: the basement or the bedroom or whatever it was. And
S1: now they're running a multi multibillion dollar Nasdaq listed company
S1: that's global, you know, so if you've got speed dial.
S1: Who to stop whenever you need that advice. That's probably
S1: pretty helpful, isn't it? Yeah.
S2: Well, I mean, Kim is. Kim is on our board
S2: here in Harrison, and so we. She's great.
S1: Too. We got a lot on the board with Kim.
S2: Oh, yeah, you are. So we. We're very lucky to.
S2: To have a lot of that support and help across
S2: Horizon and also Blackbird as well. So that that is
S2: the council that we continue to listen to. But yeah,
S2: you're right. You know this the founders tend to tend
S2: to be the the bottleneck of their companies. And, you know,
S2: I'm doing everything I can to try and empower the
S2: team to to do more, but also to remove myself
S2: from the critical path.
S1: Let me ask an impossible question then. How do you
S1: know when it's beyond, you know, either for you or
S1: for anyone that's listening? Because I've seen it as an investor.
S1: And even when I was a founder, at a certain
S1: point it becomes too much. You don't want to do it.
S1: You're not capable. You can't learn. I mean, how what
S1: are the signs?
S2: I mean, I like to think that I still have
S2: quite a quite a lot left in the tank.
S1: I think you're okay. I don't necessarily mean you.
S2: But just kind of clarify. How do you mean? If
S2: you could phrase a question? I'm not quite.
S1: Understanding. Yeah. So it's at a certain so some founders
S1: don't have what it takes to become Scott and or
S1: Mike or Mel or Cliff or any of the the
S1: big companies that have gone from, you know, tinkering in
S1: the garage to running a multi-billion dollar listed business. Yeah.
S1: You know, because there's multiple steps along the way and,
S1: you know, you've got to become experts and every domain
S1: as you go. And at a certain point, some people
S1: just don't want to do it. They're not capable. Um,
S1: but it's a really difficult question. And like, no one
S1: really wants to be told that they can't do it
S1: and no one wants to admit that they can't do it.
S1: So how Yeah, how does this yeah, what are the
S1: signs if maybe you don't reflect in this, but do
S1: you think there's signs for any founder out there that's
S1: listening or any investor that's got a problem? Child in
S1: their portfolio? Like how do you know when the founders
S1: beyond it.
S2: I think just take a step back. And I think,
S2: you know, for me, I have a lot of admiration
S2: for for great founders around here in Australia, but also oversea.
S2: But my aspiration isn't to become them or beat them,
S2: but really to solve the fundamental problem that Harrison set
S2: out to do. So Harrison problem is to scale capacity
S2: of health care. And you know, the question I asked
S2: myself every year and recommitted myself to to the company
S2: in the organization is what is the most impactful thing
S2: that I can be for Harrison to best let us
S2: to achieving that. So early days, you know, it meant
S2: proving out a technology. So, you know, that's what we
S2: have to do. But you go to beyond certain stage where,
S2: you know, the most scalable thing you can be is
S2: to lead the company and to lead the the team through.
S2: All of a sudden with that and I would say,
S2: you know, people get, you know, people the sign would
S2: be when you start stop falling in love with the
S2: problem and and that don't compel you enough to to
S2: go through those those challenges anymore. And I think that's
S2: that's when to call it quit. But I think you
S2: know when you sort of work backward from what ultimately
S2: the business is looking to solve, which in my my
S2: mind is inspiring, worthwhile cause that, you know, should be
S2: enough for a lifetime for many people. You know, that
S2: that should guide you to to do a lot like
S2: almost anything.
S1: You've won the or you've been in the 30 under
S1: 30 list. Like what did that mean you still qualify.
S2: I think I have another year left.
S1: There you go.
S2: So that's.
S1: Amazing. I love.
S2: That story. I think can no longer say that I'm
S2: a young founder in couple.
S1: I'd say you.
S2: Are. Oh, I'm not sure what the average age of
S2: of founders.
S1: It's probably older than you. Okay yeah. Especially look for
S1: ones that have done what you've done. You are an outlier.
S1: I mean, there's you and the Ferguson brothers are immutable.
S1: I mean, there's a few incredible founders out there, but
S1: I mean, that 30 under 30 is quite an illustrious list.
S1: I mean, what does it mean? Did it actually mean
S1: anything or was it just something you put in your
S1: LinkedIn profile?
S2: Now, this this is something that, you know, a great
S2: recognition was very humbled by that. When we first started out,
S2: you know, we were just looking to to to build
S2: great technology and make impacts. And to be recognized at
S2: that at that forum was was very good to see.
S2: But for me, it's also validation for the team as well.
S2: Sometimes as a company solve this kind of problem is
S2: tend to look inward, but sometimes those external validation is
S2: good for the prospective team members who who are looking
S2: to join Harrison, but also is a win for everybody
S2: at home also who worked very hard for multiple months.
S2: For me to be able to make claims like, Hey,
S2: we have this product in 38 different countries, clear it.
S2: Is A11 liner, but there's a lot of work from
S2: the team here at Harrison and analysts. So that's what
S2: it meant to me is a recognition that we are
S2: on a worthwhile path and is a recognition from an
S2: external party.
S1: All right. Let's let's do a couple more questions and
S1: then we'll jump to the quickfire round. So one is
S1: the one I always love asking great founders like culture.
S1: I mean, culture is so important in terms of building
S1: your business and energizing the team and hiring and performance
S1: management and all the rest of it. Like, tell us
S1: about culture at Harrison.
S2: I yeah, we, you know, there's this tenet that I
S2: can't remember who told me, but I it's been a
S2: good guiding light, which is everybody want to be a
S2: valued team, members of a winning team pursuing an inspiring missions.
S2: Um and whenever it is you know there's challenges in
S2: the team I always come back to that and say
S2: what's missing? Is it not inspiring? Do people don't feel
S2: value or perhaps, you know, they don't feel like we
S2: are winning, we don't celebrate enough. And those are the
S2: things that I kind of focus on. Of course, you know,
S2: we have great sets of values that we blast over
S2: to the office and a lot of people are the
S2: living embodiment of many of that. But for me at least,
S2: you know, as to to lead the company, that's one
S2: of the things that I constantly ask myself is do
S2: people feel that way about the company in the business?
S2: The other thing about culture for us is just this
S2: deep investment in people. Um, because being a deep tech
S2: companies other than the four walls, a lot of what
S2: we do are incredible people doing their life best work
S2: solving very difficult problems. So we only as successful as
S2: the talents that we bring in through the door. So
S2: we have a lot of programs that really speak to that.
S2: So we have a great become apparent program is really
S2: Australian first. It has a great sort of component to that.
S2: We speak to the origin story of of Harrison, but
S2: also many other pieces around equity. So gender equity and
S2: and other and other things that is important to us
S2: as a social mission. And I think that that ultimately
S2: led to people feeling like they they're part of something bigger.
S2: And that's that's my my role and part of executive
S2: role here at Harrison to make sure people feel and
S2: truly live that.
S1: Yeah because I mean I was struck the start by
S1: your vision of scale. And one of the hardest things
S1: to scale is culture. I mean, what mechanisms have you
S1: got in place to ensure that this culture scales, You know,
S1: because I'm sure you're not involved in every single interview
S1: for the new hires anymore. Yeah. Am I right? No.
S2: That's no longer true. Unfortunately for me, it's the it's
S2: the team that is immediately, you know, that that is
S2: immediate to every individual at Harrison. So I don't interview everybody.
S2: I don't work with everybody directly, but I do work
S2: with my team directly and, you know, constantly we're trying
S2: to lift those values and this and be the embodiment
S2: of that culture to the immediate team. And I have
S2: trust and and have a lot of trust that the
S2: team would then scale that beyond me and beyond that
S2: immediate team. We also have a sort of remote first team.
S2: So the company is really start scaling from a number
S2: of headcount perspective roughly around. Tom Yeah, I guess so, yeah.
S2: I mean, we so most of the team that are
S2: here now at Harrison and Allison Franklin joined remotely. Yeah.
S2: So we have this remote first culture, meaning that, you
S2: know the how do you scale culture beyond is sort
S2: of built in when we first start scaling. Yeah. So
S2: there's elements to make sure people feel inclusive and the
S2: way that the office is designed and the way that
S2: all of our process and system design is meant to
S2: be sort of remote first and that, that that was
S2: quite helpful for us, you know, as we we grow
S2: during that time.
S1: And how big is the team now? Did you talk
S1: about numbers.
S2: Yeah. So the total headcount across Harrison Franklin and Ali
S2: so it's closer to 100 people now. So that is
S2: big spread across clinical R&D, but also now much more so.
S2: And commercial organization. The commercial organization is a global one,
S2: so it's spanned across Europe, Asia and Australia and then
S2: some present in the US.
S1: And physical offices. So you've obviously got this fancy office
S1: in Haymarket, but where else have you got an office?
S2: So we only have this main office here in Sydney.
S2: We have other offices in Hochman City, Vietnam. So one
S2: big part of what we do is data annotation with
S2: medical experts. So we have an office in Ho Chi
S2: Minh City in Hanoi where our clinicians is doing data
S2: refinement work. And that's a big part of building the
S2: system is to have data annotation at scale.
S1: Yeah. All right. Last question. What's next? I mean, you've
S1: done all this. You're not even 30. I mean, if
S1: you extrapolate for the next ten, 20 years. Like what?
S1: Where's Harrison? Where are you? Yeah.
S2: So for us, what we've shown so far in the
S2: last few years of sign company is that we are
S2: capable of building world leading comprehensive AI system and truly
S2: take that to market and make it something that is
S2: truly use. The next step for us is to scale
S2: both in terms of the breadth, i.e. more modality into
S2: other domain, but also increase the level of automation beyond
S2: just detections and triage into more further level of of
S2: automation that will deliver even more efficiency for clinicians. And
S2: that's what we're very focused to do. It's also the,
S2: the growing, the growing the the revenue base across the
S2: radiology and then pathology business to start funding, self-funding some
S2: of these development, which can be timely and costly for us,
S2: is the thing that we we are very focusing on
S2: at the moment.
S1: Yeah. All right. Let's maybe leave the the main part
S1: of the interview there. So, Angus, thank you. Amazing story.
S1: Love what you've done. You know, I think it's very
S1: mission and purpose driven, which I love, and it's also
S1: highly commercial. So I think you're going to build a
S1: great business. All right. Let's jump to the quickfire round.
S1: Do you have a recommended book?
S2: Yeah, there's a book I really like on prediction machines.
S2: It's actually talk about AI, but from a perspective of economists, okay,
S2: I highly recommend it for founders. Who's curious about AI
S2: and how it's applied to their business model?
S1: Is that quite a new book? I haven't heard of
S1: that one.
S2: It's a it's a couple of years old. As I
S2: remember when we were Sub20 hit, we bought a big
S2: box of it and everyone who joined have to read
S2: the book. So yeah, I highly recommend that.
S1: Love it. Do you listen to podcasts? If so, which ones?
S2: Um, Lex Fridman on YouTube is interview a lot of
S2: thought leaders on AI, so I highly recommend that to listen.
S2: It's quite a technical talk, but also very entertaining.
S1: Yeah, I'll give you a prompt. So you forgot to
S1: see millions. Yeah, that's all right. Yeah. So that's your podcast.
S1: So it's called Millions and you should tune in, is
S1: that right? I haven't actually done that, but I will.
S2: Check it out. It's on a various platform and where
S2: we interview great engineers in in AI, but also in health.
S2: It's worth listening to check it out.
S1: News source like how do you stay up to date.
S2: I read medium Go summaries.
S1: You're the first person that said to Medium. Oh really? Yeah.
S1: It's kind of come off the boil a little bit medium.
S1: It was pretty big a few years ago and now
S1: it's not quite as big.
S2: Yeah, it's still, it's still quite big for the community. Um,
S2: and obviously it's been a number of topics, so I
S2: read on some mainstream news channel as well, but for
S2: sure stay up to date and what's, what's going on
S2: in I, I tend to check it out. Yeah.
S1: Now I'll roll this question in with kind of the
S1: what did you do outside of work but what's your
S1: favorite app and then tell us what you do at
S1: so to work.
S2: Um my favorite app is VS code so it's I
S2: still I still get to do some programming to this
S2: day so it's one probably use the most.
S1: Yeah. And then when you're not working.
S2: Well, not working recently I'm getting to this app called
S2: rice which is attractive sleep and, and trying to coach
S2: you into sleeping at the right time and sleep debt
S2: and managing energy level throughout the day. Yeah, it's been
S2: quite good.
S1: You know, I asked this question of Cliff Ulbricht a
S1: few years ago at a dinner. I said, What do
S1: you do outside of work? And he looked kind of
S1: dazed and a little confused. And he's like, well, I
S1: just work. I mean, I can't pick up. I do
S1: have hobbies outside of work. Or are you pretty committed?
S1: I mean, I know you're committed, but is it to
S1: the exclusion of all else?
S2: I was going to give some good answer, but then
S2: I thought it would be honest because on Saturday and Sunday,
S2: I was I was working so, um, I like to
S2: do exercise. You know, I think it's, it's one of
S2: the things for longevity, but also clarity as well. Found
S2: doing good cardiovascular exercise, help with thoughts, clarity in general. So,
S2: you know, at least that's how I trick myself into
S2: doing exercise. This is still working, but.
S1: And do you walk to work? Do you cycle? What
S1: do you do?
S2: Yeah I I'm big in efficiency, so I have a
S2: stationary bike. So every morning I wake up at 530,
S2: I get on the bike and I spend an hour
S2: and a half doing emails, check up on messages, doing
S2: catch up on readings on a bike. So after that,
S2: I've done all the calories I need for the days,
S2: but also fully up to date in terms of.
S1: So this isn't some intense peloton workout where you sweat
S1: buckets all over the floor.
S2: I mean, I sweat buckets, right? But, you know, probably
S2: not not not at the pace where I can't think anymore.
S2: So it's for like zone two. Yeah.
S1: That's pretty good for you. Yeah. Occasionally you should be going.
S1: You should be doing the occasional really intense interval. That's
S1: also part of that longevity. Longevity? Longevity piece, isn't it?
S2: Yeah, that's probably like we can go a bit more intense.
S2: But one thing is for me it's about like doing
S2: multiple things at once and wanted tasking.
S1: I productivity tool. What what do you recommend to stay efficient?
S2: I'm not big on this, so I just use very
S2: basic reminders app on apples and keeping note. Yeah yeah
S2: I'm not I should get into that but I know
S2: there's some really good tools out there.
S1: And what about communications tools internally? Are you a slack house?
S2: Yeah, we are Slack house. We had a very painful
S2: transition from team to Slack. Right. Okay. What that taught
S2: me is never denying the teams of the tools they
S2: want to use. I was very unpopular holding on to
S2: to teams, but now we are a slack shop.
S1: I could own you. Um, tricky question, but who's your
S1: favorite CEO?
S2: Um, this one might be controversial, but I like Mark.
S2: Mark Zuckerberg. Oh, yeah. You know, he's. He's. He's not
S2: very popular these days on online. And the news is
S2: not giving him a lot of credit. But, you know,
S2: his company is alive. Yeah. How many founders can say,
S2: I'm going to completely change what my business fundamentally do
S2: because I believe that's what's right for the missions. And
S2: I can rename the entire company to show that not
S2: a lot of CEO can do that these days.
S1: Yeah, no, it was pretty amazing. I mean, he does
S1: have full control over the board and through his shares
S1: and but it's like it doesn't matter. I mean, he's
S1: he has built a genuine, lasting, sustainable, impactful business.
S2: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's a very good chance
S2: he may not succeed in that. But, you know, if
S2: you if you bet on agility and you bet on
S2: ability to pivot to market signal and and adapt, like
S2: I'm not sure if there's not a CEO who's as agile. Yeah.
S2: At that level of scale. Right.
S1: Um, linked to that question, are you going to buy
S1: tickets to the the Musk Zuckerberg fight. Yeah.
S2: I mean I'm, I'm not sure if this is actually
S2: going to happen. I heard. Is that serious?
S1: I can't believe it's going to happen, to be honest.
S1: I mean, like Zuckerberg would wallop.
S2: I'm not sure if I can afford a ticket, you know,
S2: if it's actually happening.
S1: Well, if it's at the Vegas Octagon, which I think
S1: we talked about, there's quite a few tickets and I
S1: suspect it'd be streamed, but it would be a terrible fight.
S1: And I think from what I understand, I mean, Zuckerberg's
S1: had this full time jujitsu coach for the last few years,
S1: and he's younger and healthier than than.
S2: Ellen Elon Musk sit on my you know, my my.
S1: End the fight. Yeah. I don't know if you're good
S1: at jiu jitsu. It doesn't really matter for your opponents.
S2: Because you want to be on your feet. You don't
S2: want to you don't want to get on the ground.
S1: Yeah, you can use their weight against them. So anyway,
S1: that's true. Poor old Elon will get walloped if that
S1: happens and I'm not going to watch it. I think
S1: it's going to be a terrible TV show. Do you
S1: watch TV and if so, what do you watch?
S2: Um, I mean, I recently rewatched the shows that got
S2: me into medicine is called House. Yeah, I'm not sure
S2: a lot of people knows that, but it's yeah, it's
S2: a like Sherlock Holmes with medical. Medical. Yeah. Yeah.
S1: I had two Laurie in it.
S2: I don't know the older English. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Right. Interesting.
S2: He have to give an American accent for that show,
S2: but it was quite effectively. But yeah, I mean, it
S2: is great. I mean it, it's what medicine. That's what
S2: I thought medicine was when I joined medicine. And that's
S2: what I discovered. Medicine isn't after I left medicine. And
S2: it's a good reminder to watch is it's fun. It's
S2: talk about medical mystery and people running around doing all
S2: sorts of cool stuff that you don't actually get to
S2: do in real life. As a doctor.
S1: It's house to medicine. What Suits says to law.
S2: Yes. Yes. Because.
S1: Yeah. I mean, I've watched some of suits and it
S1: was just ridiculous. I mean, it was just these poncy
S1: New York lawyers dressing up and thinking it was cool. Yeah.
S1: The reality is, is not that cool. I mean, again,
S1: no offense to the lawyers out there, but Suits is
S1: not representative. All right. Well, anyway, got you into medicine
S1: and you're here now, so who cares? That's awesome. Last question.
S1: If you got asked to do a Ted talk, what
S1: would you talk about?
S2: I'll talk about the, the equality um, the the health
S2: equality that is possible through the scalability of AI. So
S2: at Harrison, you know, one of the things that we're
S2: very proud of is some of the impact work that
S2: we do where fundamentally we have to build sustainable enterprise
S2: that sell products and make a good profit and good
S2: return on investment for for investors and all involved. But
S2: the legacy that we want to leave behind is the
S2: fact that somebody in Goma, um, that we recently do
S2: work with, will have access to a digital radiologist that
S2: can provide them with medical analysis that they otherwise wouldn't
S2: have access to. And unless somebody is such a hard
S2: problem that unless someone spent energy, it would just never
S2: naturally happen because of economy. Yeah, you know, the capitalism
S2: won't see people in Goma have access to good medical diagnosis,
S2: but through AI can bring the economic economy value of
S2: that into a level where it is now possible. So
S2: if I do have a Ted talk, I'd love to
S2: to share that perspective on how even though we work,
S2: we're talking about Deep Tech and AI, which is meant
S2: to be futuristic and advanced. But really the deep meaning
S2: behind that is actually accessibility and equality, which, you know,
S2: really why I get up every day and I'm sure
S2: everyone here at Harrison is also the same.
S1: That's great. All right. Any call outs to the audience
S1: later if you go, Are you hiring AI? What if
S1: someone wants to find out more? Like what should they do?
S2: Yeah. So we we continue to hire in the AI team.
S2: So anyone who's interested in being part of the journey,
S2: we have a list of team members that we're looking
S2: to bring on board across a number of domain like technology,
S2: but also in the commercial team. You know, the other
S2: the other thing. Yeah, reach out to us if you're
S2: curious about the usage of the tool. If you run
S2: health organizations and looking to understand how AI will play
S2: a role in that and how our product can be
S2: a part of that. We'd love to to reach out
S2: and have a talk. Yeah.
S1: So Harrison.
S2: Harrison.
S1: Actually just before we sign off like Harrison, Analyze Franklin.
S1: Where do the names come from?
S2: Yeah. So right behind me is the is the book
S2: called Harrison Principle of Internal Medicine. It was like my
S2: pillow in in Mexico. So that's the origin story about
S2: behind Harrison. And we like to name our technology after people.
S2: I had this vision that one day is like Dr.
S2: Harrison Dr. Analyze Dr. Franklin I think about it like
S2: the world's most scalable, um, hospital department and collectively will
S2: cover all the different aspects of medicine, creating a series
S2: of very scalable, affordable and accurate algorithms that people will
S2: just get access to. Awesome. Right.
S1: Thanks. Tran Thank you so much. It was great to
S1: chat to you and congrats on the journey so far
S1: and best of luck with the future.
S2: Thank you so much. Thanks for coming in. Thanks for listening.
S2: Bye bye.