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Speaker 1: Station six on a Friday. Intrust it dot Com. That's

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Speaker 1: where you find Dave Hat and his crew for all

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Speaker 1: your computer needs. When you're a business owner, I know

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Speaker 1: you got computers and sometimes you'll get into trouble using

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Speaker 1: them or set them up in properly, don't have best

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Speaker 1: practices in place. Whatever it is you've got computers, you

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Speaker 1: need intrust it dot com, which the business currenter says

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Speaker 1: is the best in the business here in the Tri State.

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Speaker 1: Welcome the man who is responsible for interest it in

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Speaker 1: this particular segment of the week we call the Tech Friday.

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Speaker 1: It's Dave Hatter. Welcome back, Dave. Thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining the program.

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Speaker 2: Oh is my pleasure, Brian. I look forward to it

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Speaker 2: every week.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been revealing this, this crazy kidnapping case that's

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Speaker 1: made all the news, has been revealing about well, what's

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Speaker 1: going on in the back door. We find out that Google,

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Speaker 1: ring cameras or app whichever's system out there, actually still

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Speaker 1: recording things even if you're not hooked up to the

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Speaker 1: cloud with it.

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Speaker 2: That was weird.

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Speaker 1: Then we find out the realities of cryptocurrency. They track

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Speaker 1: the account of the kidnapper, who I apparently identified a

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Speaker 1: crypto account in which we were supposed he was supposed

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Speaker 1: to receive five million dollars in ransom, but they put

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Speaker 1: a little money into it just make sure it was active,

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Speaker 1: which allows them to sort of follow that account and

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Speaker 1: track literally every transaction ever made on that account. That's frightening.

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Speaker 1: You can't buy something anymore without the world knowing that

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Speaker 1: you bought it. And we pivot over to this. Your

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Speaker 1: first topic this morning, Google Virtual assistant secretly recording users.

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Speaker 1: Your favorite products are Google products, right, Dave?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Brian, I'm a big fan of the

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Speaker 2: Internet of things, not and the camera you're talking about

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Speaker 2: in the gut three case. Maybe we dig into this

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Speaker 2: a little bit more next week, because I think it's

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Speaker 2: really interesting for folks, and that to me, it's just

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Speaker 2: yet another example of why I'm not a fan of

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Speaker 2: the Internet of things, the so called smart devices, and

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Speaker 2: it really illustrates that while I get the wow factor

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Speaker 2: and the convenience and the coolness and all that that

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Speaker 2: some of these devices bring, the vast majority of them

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Speaker 2: are privacy and security dumpster fire. They're tracking you in

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Speaker 2: ways that are not obvious. You probably couldn't understand even

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Speaker 2: if they were and that's just another example. But so yeah,

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Speaker 2: this Google thing, a sixty eight million dollar lawsuit claims

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Speaker 2: that it's virtual assistant secretly recorded users. You and I

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Speaker 2: have talked about this off and on for a long time.

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Speaker 2: Many people have said, oh wait a minute. You know,

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Speaker 2: it feels like these things are listening to me all

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Speaker 2: the time. My phone is listening to me. And directly

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Speaker 2: from the article. Settlement reached last week in Northern North

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Speaker 2: Northern California. Simpson allegations the tool recorded users even when

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Speaker 2: they did not preface something with quote hey Google unquote,

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Speaker 2: or quote okay Google unquote, or press a button on

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Speaker 2: the device, claim the device has recorded them without their

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Speaker 2: knowledge or consent, and then they received target advertisements for

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Speaker 2: things they did not ask about. Google and the filing

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Speaker 2: late Friday said it was settling to avoid the quote uncertainty, risk, expense, inconvenience,

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Speaker 2: and distraction unquote of a lengthy court battle that was

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Speaker 2: reported in the hill. Or is it possibly because they

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Speaker 2: don't want discovery A secret and well done? Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm no lawyer, but I know how this works, Brian,

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Speaker 2: And you know, is it because sixty eight million dollars

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Speaker 2: settlement to Google is probably like, you know, sixty eight

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Speaker 2: cents to you and I exactly.

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Speaker 1: They have their own, massive, well funded legal department within Google,

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Speaker 1: and they also hired the most expensive talented outside council

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Speaker 1: at four figures plus per hour, probably at least twenty

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Speaker 1: lawyers per law firm assigned to the case. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: it all adds up. But to Google, it's a moment

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Speaker 1: in time in terms of their revenue.

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Speaker 2: But real quick, Brian, I just wanted to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: I try to tell this to people all the time.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't have these devices. I don't have

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Speaker 2: Nest thermostats, Nest doorbells, ring doorbells, any of this. You know,

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Speaker 2: ring has now come under fire again. But I would

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Speaker 2: just say people do not understand these things have microphones,

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Speaker 2: they have cameras. They've done studies where they'll put these

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Speaker 2: sort of quote, you know, smart assistants in a room

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Speaker 2: and turn on a TV and watch how often they

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Speaker 2: activate when they're not using the wake word. And I

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Speaker 2: would just remind people, it must be listening to you

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Speaker 2: all the time. Now, should it yeah, should it activate?

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Speaker 2: Should it record? Should it do things without you explicitly

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Speaker 2: asking it to no, but it must be listening to

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Speaker 2: you in order for you to be able to tell

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Speaker 2: it to do something right.

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Speaker 1: That's from the very get go of these devices. Data

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Speaker 1: seems so blank and obvious. How can you not understand

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Speaker 1: that it has to listen to you all the time

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Speaker 1: in order for it to be operated?

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Speaker 2: Which is why I don't have any of these voice assistants.

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Speaker 2: I don't use Siri on my Apple phone. It's turned off.

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Speaker 2: If I want something, I just type in there. Old school.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know that's crazy for people. But in

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Speaker 2: this same article they mentioned the settlement comes after Apple

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Speaker 2: reached a similar ninety five million dollar settlement last year

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Speaker 2: over its voice assistance Siri allegedly listening to private or

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Speaker 2: confidential conversations that were then share with third party businesses

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Speaker 2: and use to help to cultivate interesting ads. So again,

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Speaker 2: none of these things have gone to courd none of

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Speaker 2: these have gotten extensive discovery. One could surmise that perhaps

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Speaker 2: that is because they don't want the discovery that would

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Speaker 2: ultimately prove that is exactly what's happening. So again, folks,

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Speaker 2: do what you will if you have fully informed consent

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Speaker 2: and you have a house full of these So called

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Speaker 2: smart devices. Good good luck with that again talking to

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Speaker 2: a guy. There's a great meme. I wish I would

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Speaker 2: have come up with it, Brian, And obviously your listeners

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Speaker 2: can't see it. But it's a guy that says, you know,

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Speaker 2: tech enthusiasts, my house is full of smart devices, tech worker.

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Speaker 2: I only have a printer, and I keep a gun

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Speaker 2: next to it in case it makes a noise. I

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Speaker 2: don't recognize. Be that guy. Be that guy. That's that's me.

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Speaker 2: I use that in slide decks all the time when

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Speaker 2: I'm talking about this stuff out, you know, in various settings,

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Speaker 2: like you should be that guy. This stuff is so immature,

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Speaker 2: it is not consumer friendly. People don't understand how to

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Speaker 2: configure it correctly. It don't understand the kind of data

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Speaker 2: it can collect. They don't know how to update it.

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Speaker 2: So it's a it's a double whammy of it's a

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Speaker 2: you know, an Orwellian privacy device as well as it's

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Speaker 2: full of software that's probably misconfigured, not set up right,

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Speaker 2: comes from China, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. We're

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Speaker 2: at a place where this stuff. You should not use

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Speaker 2: this stuff. I'll just leave it at that I don't

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Speaker 2: do what you will.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Dave for reminding people what you regularly remind.

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Speaker 1: You can use as much time in Tech Friday's Dave

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Speaker 1: Hatter segment as you want to remind people. Just get

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Speaker 1: rid of those stupid devices. Six thirty five Coming up,

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Speaker 1: we've got more of the hidden price of clicks. That's

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Speaker 1: an expertversa REALI six fifty five per se de talk

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Speaker 1: stations a little. Why why is he there? Moving pictures?

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Speaker 1: Just turned forty five years old yesterday, Dave Hatter Rush fan.

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Speaker 1: You are as am I crazy, isn't it? I'm so old?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I remember when the album came out

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty one. Oh I just love that album too. Anyhow,

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Speaker 1: Tech Fridday, Dave had this is really freaky, and I

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Speaker 1: think of this when I think about the Kroger card.

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Speaker 1: But go ahead and launch into congratulations. Another Kentucky Tribune

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Speaker 1: covered you, Jacob Klaib reporting on the surveillance pricing quality

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Speaker 1: raising our prices the hidden cost of clicks, Dave.

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Speaker 2: So Brian, this is a perfect segue. Thank you Joe

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Speaker 2: Strecker for picking these topics today from the last article.

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Speaker 2: One of the ways that you get all the data

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Speaker 2: used for surveillance pricing is from all your so called

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Speaker 2: smart devices. It's not only as you're in thermostat, your doorbell,

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Speaker 2: your TV, your refrigerator, your dryer, your car, your phone,

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Speaker 2: you know, et cetera. It's you know, every website, you visit,

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Speaker 2: everything you do. You mentioned it leading into that last segment, right,

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Speaker 2: We're being tracked everywhere all the time. You're leaving these

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Speaker 2: digital breadcrumbs. Some call it digital exhaust everywhere. The more

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Speaker 2: devices that have software in them, the more tracking there is,

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Speaker 2: not to mention the security components, and this has recently

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Speaker 2: come up. So I stumbled into an article that led

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Speaker 2: me down a rabbit hole on this. So I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to read a little bit of this and then

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Speaker 2: get right to the meat of it. Why Post columnist

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Fowler requested his personal data from Starbucks. He expected

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Speaker 2: a simple purchase log. Instead, he received an eight page

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Speaker 2: dossier detailing every drink, every snack, every tap in the

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Speaker 2: Starbucks have even more surprising, now, wait for it, even

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Speaker 2: more surprising. The more loyal he became, the fewer deals

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Speaker 2: he received.

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Speaker 1: Because he's a loyal customer, why would they get the

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Speaker 1: deal they know he's coming in all the time.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Past don't get a loyalty card. More discounts coming your.

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Speaker 2: Way, and you know it. So for a long time

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Speaker 2: there's been this idea of dynamic pricing. People might have

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Speaker 2: heard this terminology specifically with things like Uber or Lyft

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Speaker 2: with surge pricing. You go to a concert at River Bend,

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Speaker 2: and suddenly it gets much more expensive to get an

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Speaker 2: uber right, as opposed to if you just called an

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Speaker 2: Uber over to let's say the casino on a Friday night.

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Speaker 2: Instead it's a sold out concert, your price goes way up. Right,

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Speaker 2: So it might say, okay, again, this has been around

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Speaker 2: for a long time. You're in a zip code that

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Speaker 2: appears to be more affluent than me, so you go

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Speaker 2: to buy something on an e commerce website and you

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Speaker 2: get a different price than me.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's hilarious, real quick. I got to say this

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Speaker 1: because it reminds me we lived in a Chicago We

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Speaker 1: had a house in Oak Park and River Forest was

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Speaker 1: the next neighborhood over a far wealthier neighborhood. We used

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Speaker 1: to joke about the Oak Park price versus the River

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Speaker 1: Forest price. Like when it came to home construction or projects.

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Speaker 1: It was cheaper at Oak Park than it was the

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Speaker 1: River Forest because the people knew that they were wealthier

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Speaker 1: people river Forest.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well so it's the same basic idea. But you know,

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Speaker 2: now thanks to all this digital technology, again, I can

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Speaker 2: look at your IP address, figure out you're in a

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Speaker 2: different zip code and gives you a different maybe a

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Speaker 2: higher or lower price as a result. So surveillance pricing

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Speaker 2: takes it to the next level, which is, now it's

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Speaker 2: not just about you know, perhaps one demographic factor. I

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Speaker 2: can figure out about you. So much data is out

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Speaker 2: there about you now being collected about you via all

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Speaker 2: these so called smart devices, all this online activity which

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Speaker 2: is then sold to data brokers who coalate even more

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Speaker 2: of it into Again, just Starbucks had an eight page

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Speaker 2: dots on this one reporter. Imagine all the things you

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Speaker 2: do online. If all of that were being bought and

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Speaker 2: sold and accumulated, how much detailed information there would be

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Speaker 2: available about you? Now the concept of surveillance pricing. Now

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Speaker 2: I can look at very detailed psychographic data about you

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Speaker 2: and give you a different price than someone else. Right,

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Speaker 2: And this in my article I kind of break it

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Speaker 2: down traditional dynamic pricing price has changed for everyone based

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Speaker 2: on time, demand, inventory, etc. It's somewhat transparent. Surveillance pricing

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Speaker 2: applies to you individually. It's based on your personal data,

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Speaker 2: and it's opaque and difficult or impossible to detect. And

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Speaker 2: now again thanks to Kentucky's Consumer Data Protection Act, as

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Speaker 2: a Kentuckian, you can potentially go out and start to

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Speaker 2: request some of this data gets deleted. That's a monumental task,

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Speaker 2: by the way, I'm not suggesting it simple. And in

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Speaker 2: this article, I'll post this out there. I've posted this

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Speaker 2: article numerous times in my social media individually, I'll post

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Speaker 2: it again. I'll put it in today's show notes. People

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Speaker 2: should go read this because I have several examples of

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Speaker 2: how this could be used. And the point I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to make is not so much justice one thing. It's

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Speaker 2: that we are increasingly in a digital world where all

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Speaker 2: this data is being collected about you, and this is

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Speaker 2: just one of many ways this data can be used.

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Speaker 2: In this case, I would argue against you not to

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Speaker 2: mention things like because all this data is being collected,

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Speaker 2: and because people keep buying these IoT devices and putting

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Speaker 2: more and more and more about themselves out there. You know,

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Speaker 2: determination that we don't like the way you behave, so

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Speaker 2: we're going to increase your insurance premium, or we're going

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Speaker 2: to cancel your insurance, or you're not going to get

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Speaker 2: a job because they're using tools to analyze this data

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Speaker 2: and decide you won't be a good employee, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: Right, parably orwellian? I mean to boil it down again

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Speaker 1: using that too often use word yes.

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Speaker 2: And you know in article I give some basic tips

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Speaker 2: about how to reduce your digital footprint, how to improve

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Speaker 2: your privacy. You know, I've said this on here many

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Speaker 2: times and posted it many times. I put together a

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Speaker 2: list of the privacy friendly sites, apps, whatever you want

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Speaker 2: to call them, that I personally use. You know, are

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Speaker 2: they perfect? No, Most of these companies have their issues.

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Speaker 2: Some are much more privacy friendly than others. But you know,

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Speaker 2: you can take steps to reduce your digital footprint. You

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Speaker 2: can take steps to limit the impact this sort of

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Speaker 2: thing has on you, but you have to make a

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Speaker 2: conscious effort to do it. And part of that is

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Speaker 2: to strip out all of these insane so called smart

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Speaker 2: devices people have in their house. And I think what

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Speaker 2: people if people go out and start to dig into

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Speaker 2: like the I don't know, Brian, I have you seen

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Speaker 2: all the feedback or the blowback on the Amazon Ad

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Speaker 2: from the Super Bowl and block cameras and then now

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Speaker 2: this nest thing with the gut three case. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm hoping this is going to to wake people up

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Speaker 2: to the unbelievable surveillance you are voluntarily putting yourself under

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Speaker 2: when you use these things, Dave.

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Speaker 1: That's why we're lucky to have you in the importance

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Speaker 1: of this particular segment. You have been on this bandwagon

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Speaker 1: for literally years, so more and more people waken up.

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Speaker 1: To maybe take a while for people to come around,

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Speaker 1: but finally the message seems to be sinking in. One

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Speaker 1: more with Deep talk Station six. If you want put

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Speaker 1: you about garsd Talk station and tech Bardi's Dave Hatter

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Speaker 1: intrust it dot com. Find Dave and his team to

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Speaker 1: help you get out of your business related computer issues

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Speaker 1: Dave Hat or another one. We're talking about fake banks,

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Speaker 1: exploiting search and trust.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Brian, I want to veer off on this for

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Speaker 2: the one second kind. I want to tell a real

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Speaker 2: world story that's kind of related, and I think this

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Speaker 2: is going to blow people's minds. Now, I know the

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Speaker 2: person this happened to personally, Okay, okay, So I'm going

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Speaker 2: to tell you a real world story. Person. I know.

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Speaker 2: It's a text. It appears to come from a bank,

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Speaker 2: a known bank. It's easy to spoof a phone number

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Speaker 2: for a phone call or a text. It is trivially

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Speaker 2: easy to make the incoming phone call or text message

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Speaker 2: appear to come from any number I want. People don't

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Speaker 2: seem to understand this. It does not even require much skill.

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Speaker 2: This person gets a phone call or a text rather

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Speaker 2: from a bank. They think it's their bank number. Looks legit.

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Speaker 2: They take they call the number. They get on the

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Speaker 2: phone with an actual live con artist, Yeah okay, who

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Speaker 2: tells them they're investigating the bank and they need them

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Speaker 2: to go and take money out of their atm, which

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Speaker 2: they do and put the money into another atm. Oh

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Speaker 2: my god, which of course the bad guys control. What

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Speaker 2: do you think happened to their money?

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Speaker 1: Oh it's coy, I wonder, Dave.

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Speaker 2: This is this is real, Brian, This again, I know

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Speaker 2: this person personally, Okay, this just happened. People have got

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Speaker 2: to understand the level of sophistication of these con artists,

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Speaker 2: not the textchnical sophistication, because this what they did was

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Speaker 2: not really technical at all. They spoofed a phone number

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Speaker 2: and then they con someone with social engineering. Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is happening every day people, every single day. Phishing emails,

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Speaker 2: phishing texts, actual phishing voice calls are going out. Your

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Speaker 2: data is everywhere, finding that you use a certain bank,

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Speaker 2: and then making a bogus phone caller text from that bank,

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Speaker 2: a spoofed number call from that bank to your phone number,

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Speaker 2: and one hundred million other phone numbers. It's trivial. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: all they need is one person to pick up the phone.

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Speaker 2: If I steal a thousand dollars from you, that's a

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Speaker 2: good day. Yeah right, Most people don't make a thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars tax free a day. If I can do that

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Speaker 2: ten times a day, I'm rolling. You are rolling.

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Speaker 1: I've actually gotten those day the fake message. I have

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Speaker 1: two separate institutions. I bank with shaff Fact, so of

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Speaker 1: course I speak for, but my other bank, I've received

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Speaker 1: several emails purporting to be from my bank and reaching

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Speaker 1: out to me for similar very suspicious purposes. Talk about delete,

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Speaker 1: taking me about two seconds to figure out. Now, screw

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Speaker 1: that if they really need to get in touch me,

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Speaker 1: they're going to know how to do it properly.

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Speaker 2: I've gotten these sort of things too, But folks, do

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Speaker 2: not take the calls, do not click the links, do

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Speaker 2: not text back to the numbers. If you get something

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Speaker 2: like this that claims to be from your bank, stop

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Speaker 2: what you're doing and then go log into your bank's website,

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Speaker 2: use the banking app on your phone, look up a

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Speaker 2: number from the credit card statement or bank statement you get,

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Speaker 2: go directly to them. We nerds like to call it

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Speaker 2: out of band. Go out of band, don't take debate,

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Speaker 2: and no bank is going to tell you transfer your

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Speaker 2: money to another bank. Go get money out of an

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Speaker 2: ATM and put it in another ATM. No legitimate bank

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Speaker 2: is going to do that.

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Speaker 1: That's so funny that people would fall for that, Dave.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, it's it's you know, say I sought your.

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Speaker 1: Friend, but that just seems so damn obvious.

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Speaker 2: Brian. You know, as a result of all this media

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Speaker 2: I'm doing, I get lots of calls from people who've

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Speaker 2: been scammed, identity theft. It's really tragic the kind of

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Speaker 2: things that are happening to people. So to hit this

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Speaker 2: last point real quick, because it is important. So a

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Speaker 2: resecourch company showed in the past year they found more

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Speaker 2: than wait for it, eleven thousand eleven thousand fraudulent bank

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Speaker 2: domains eight thousand in the US alone. So bad guys

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Speaker 2: are going out registering a lookalike or doppelganger domain for

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Speaker 2: fifth third USAA city bank fill in the blank. They're

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Speaker 2: copying the real things. They set up something that looks

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Speaker 2: exactly like it. They spend time and energy to make

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Speaker 2: it search engine optimized. It's a concept called search engine poison.

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Speaker 2: You can't just because you go search on a search engine,

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Speaker 2: don't use Google, use Bing or Duck, Duco or Brave

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Speaker 2: or something else. But when you search, they're not verifying

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Speaker 2: those links. The bad guys know they can use the

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Speaker 2: search engines to lure you to websites because they know

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Speaker 2: people don't realize that those links aren't being checked in

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Speaker 2: any way. Right, they say in the article, they're polished

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Speaker 2: SEO optimized platforms that impersonate legitimate financial institutions, regulators and

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Speaker 2: lending services. Okay, so they get you to go to

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Speaker 2: one of these things, they'll run you through know your

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Speaker 2: customer stuff to make it feel like you're working with

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Speaker 2: a real bank. So you're going to open a new account,

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Speaker 2: You're going to ask for a loan, whatever it is

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Speaker 2: you're trying to do right. The article mentions search engine

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Speaker 2: optimization as an attack vector rather than relying on spam

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Speaker 2: or malware delivery. They're gaming search engine algorithms to get

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Speaker 2: you to these bogus websites, and then they run you

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Speaker 2: through their channel. They steal your credentials, they steal your identity,

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Speaker 2: they steal money for some upfront fee or something that

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Speaker 2: they want you to pay on these things. Eleven thousand

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Speaker 2: fake banking sites in one year. And the point being Brian,

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Speaker 2: you cannot assume that anything you get, especially if it's unsolicited,

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Speaker 2: is The average person cannot assume that anything they get,

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Speaker 2: especially unsolicit, is legit. You have got to go out

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Speaker 2: of band. You have got to verify things before you

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Speaker 2: click a link and log into something.

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Speaker 1: And real question, I gotta get it out dare because

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Speaker 1: it parallels real nice and we've talked about this before,

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Speaker 1: because they can voice clone with one accuracy and do

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Speaker 1: the fake phone number, so it looks like I got

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Speaker 1: a call coming in from my mom, my mom, and

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Speaker 1: I have a code word. If she's calling me and

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Speaker 1: she says she's in distress and she needs Oh I

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Speaker 1: don't know a gift card from Apple or whatever. I say, uh,

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Speaker 1: what's our code word? And artificial intelligence won't know the

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Speaker 1: code word?

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Speaker 2: So do that it will not We love it anyway. Yes,

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Speaker 2: that pass exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Dave Hatter You can find him at LinkedIn dot com.

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Speaker 1: Just search for Dave. Howd you get the articles that

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Speaker 1: he relies upon and stuff he does throughout the weekday.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for this segment. Thanks to Interest.

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Speaker 1: I t your company for sponsoring it. We'll do this

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Speaker 1: again next Friday and have a great week between now

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Speaker 1: and then.

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Speaker 2: My friend, Oh, it is my pleasure. Thanks Brian six.

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Speaker 1: Fifty seven fifty five Kcity Talk station. Former Meryl candidate

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Speaker 1: Corey Bowman returns after the top of their