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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WVS Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: All Right, welcome back, everybody. We're at about nine nine.

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Speaker 2: Joining us is Toorney Phil Tracy. Phil. First, we're going

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Speaker 2: to listen to some of the opening arguments today in

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Speaker 2: the Brian Walsh case, and so I want to make

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Speaker 2: sure that you have a chance to hear these as

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Speaker 2: well as for my audience to hear them as well.

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Speaker 2: The Brian Walsh case follows close on the heels of

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Speaker 2: the Karen Reid case, and if today was any indication

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Speaker 2: this one is going to generate maybe not as much publicity,

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Speaker 2: but I think it was as strange an opening day

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Speaker 2: that I can ever imagine. This case involves Brian Walsh

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Speaker 2: and his late white life, his late wife, Anna Walls,

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Speaker 2: who disappeared. Her body has never been found for a

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Speaker 2: number of reasons. Walsh was indicted by a grand jury.

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Speaker 2: They have three children, I think it's three boys, and

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Speaker 2: that became a little part of the defense here. His

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Speaker 2: defense lawyer made the argument today that that his client

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Speaker 2: is not guilty of doing anything harmful to his late wife,

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Speaker 2: and essentially, his defense lawyer argued Larry Tipton Tifton Tipton

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Speaker 2: was the defense lawyer admitted, you know, to to several

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Speaker 2: of the facts. This Brian Walsh has already pled guilty

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Speaker 2: UH to disposing of uh his wife's remains and also

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Speaker 2: misleading police. But the argument that Tipton made in his

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Speaker 2: opening statement to the to the jury is one that

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Speaker 2: is I don't know if there's a word to describe

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Speaker 2: it here. It's it's one that to me is baffling.

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Speaker 2: But I want to hear. I want Phil, I want

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Speaker 2: you to listen to his words and then we'll comment

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Speaker 2: on that. So this is the defense lawyer speaking to

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Speaker 2: the jury and the opening statements basically laying it, laying

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Speaker 2: out the defense for Brian Walsh. Let me, I want

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Speaker 2: to pick the right m the right cut here, cut

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Speaker 2: number twenty four, please Rob.

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Speaker 3: And he doesn't understand what has happened and what is happening.

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Speaker 4: It didn't make any sense.

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Speaker 5: You will hear evidence in this case of suddenly unexplained death.

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Speaker 5: You will hear evidence that it is great. You will

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Speaker 5: hear evidence that it happens.

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Speaker 3: It is to this day not well understood, and that

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Speaker 3: is the evidence you will hear.

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Speaker 6: And it is not well known to non medical professionals

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Speaker 6: and you will hear evidence Brian Walsh never imagined somebody

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Speaker 6: suddenly die.

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Speaker 5: One hour he's with her, he cleans the kitchen, he

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Speaker 5: comes back up, and she is dead.

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Speaker 2: That is the argument. Of course, the prosecution tells a

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Speaker 2: very different story. And let me play one bite from

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Speaker 2: the prosecutor in this case. I've got a lot of

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Speaker 2: notes here, Phil, so be bear with me. The prosecutor

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Speaker 2: is Greg Connor. Who the assistant district attorney is Greg Connor,

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Speaker 2: someone who I believe you're familiar with. Yes, And this

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Speaker 2: is the prosecutions. This is the prosecution opening opening statement.

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Speaker 2: Here cut number twenty three, please rob.

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Speaker 7: Beginning on January books, at four fifty four am, the

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Speaker 7: mac cook search best way to dispose of a body,

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Speaker 7: and then with the similar websites more than that. At

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Speaker 7: six twenty four a same day, the same device search

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Speaker 7: how long for someone to missing to inherit? How long

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Speaker 7: missing to be dead? Can you throw away body parts?

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Speaker 8: Later on that morning, on January first, at nine thirty

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Speaker 8: three am, the math Book went to search how long

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Speaker 8: does DNA last? And then an article is it possible.

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Speaker 7: To clean DNA off the night?

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Speaker 8: Thirty minutes later, the math Book research disposal of a

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Speaker 8: cell phone at ten twenty eight am the math book researcher,

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Speaker 8: I am the user of my wife's credit card. She

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Speaker 8: is missing, and again on January first, at eleven twenty

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Speaker 8: eight am, it's searched best way to dispose of body

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Speaker 8: parts after.

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Speaker 2: Ammerd Phil Tracy, you've been in the courtroom for many years,

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Speaker 2: you've defended capital cases. Have you ever heard a story

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Speaker 2: as I don't know, I want to say puzzling, as this, mystifying,

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Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it.

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Speaker 4: It's well as Dan you know and listeners, the opening

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Speaker 4: statements are not evident. So whether or not these things

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Speaker 4: that the defense counselor has said can ever be confirmed verified,

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Speaker 4: I doubt it very much. The hid part for me

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Speaker 4: is the defense is obviously what the defendant has told

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Speaker 4: his lawyers. Now it's very difficult for the public to understand.

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Speaker 4: You have to do your best for your client. Now

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Speaker 4: if he tells you that this is what happened, and

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Speaker 4: then you say, I don't you know, I don't believe it,

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Speaker 4: or I'm skeptical, but if he sticks to it, you

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Speaker 4: have to present it now. Is it somewhat ludicrous? I

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Speaker 4: think so. Years ago there was a couple of cases

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Speaker 4: in which it's almost I hate to even bring it up,

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Speaker 4: but this sort of what do you call it? Dominetrix woman.

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Speaker 4: She was tied a guy up and the guy expired

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Speaker 4: by choking. She disposed of the body he choked on

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Speaker 4: his own. But that's the closest thing I can think of,

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Speaker 4: and that's a weird case in itself. But you mentioned

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Speaker 4: the Read case. Now what's the difference. There's a huge difference.

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Speaker 4: In Reid's case. She either hit him, whether she either

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Speaker 4: hit him by accident or she didn't at all. So

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Speaker 4: there was a lot of possibilities there. There's no other

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Speaker 4: possibility here. He went and got those instructions of how

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Speaker 4: did this member of body and how long a body

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Speaker 4: would take to start to get ripe. So I mean,

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Speaker 4: this is a cold calculated murder, premeditation, malice of forethought,

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Speaker 4: all of these things that were not part of the

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Speaker 4: Read case. The Read case was maybe taken from the

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Speaker 4: prosecution side. They fought she was strong, she backed up

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Speaker 4: at him. I wasn't sure it was a second degree

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Speaker 4: murder from the beginning, more like a motor vehicle homicide.

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Speaker 4: On the other hand, that generally found her not guilty.

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Speaker 4: So that case is so different as far as the

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Speaker 4: people involved. This this fellow, and it's not it's hard

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Speaker 4: to sympathize, it's hard to feel anything form. Uh.

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Speaker 2: Well, one of the first Yeah, I think the prosecutor

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Speaker 2: today try to appeal people's common sense. We get back.

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Speaker 2: My guest is Phil Tracy. Uh, I'm going to ask

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Speaker 2: all of you to think about what you would do

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Speaker 2: under these circumstances. So where you're going to take a

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Speaker 2: quick break here, I'll be back with Phil Tracy. And

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Speaker 2: again I want all of you to to think about

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Speaker 2: this set of circumstances. And I'll pause, I'll pose the question.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you to be, in effect, sit

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Speaker 2: in his jurors here and see if there's any way

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Speaker 2: you think that this story might be able to stand

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Speaker 2: the test of cross examination and the test of time.

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Speaker 2: Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three,

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Speaker 2: one thirty. My name is Dan Ray. My guests Phil Tracy,

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Speaker 2: longtime criminal defense attorney here in Boston. He's hand capital cases,

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Speaker 2: and this to me is a really puzzling way to

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Speaker 2: try to defend this case. And and Phil, we're going to

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Speaker 2: explore a little bit more of what do you do

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Speaker 2: as a lawyer if you don't believe your your client,

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Speaker 2: because that is I can't I can't imagine you.

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Speaker 4: Had to wrap your hands around Now, we will.

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Speaker 2: Do this, we will get through this filled. Stay right

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Speaker 2: there and if you'd like to join the conversation, your perspective,

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Speaker 2: and as a matter of fact, I'd prefer to hear

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Speaker 2: from people who are not lawyers. Phil's a lawyer, I'm

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Speaker 2: a lawyer, feels much more experienced this than in this

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Speaker 2: type of case than I am. But I want to

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Speaker 2: hear from the listeners who are not lawyers. And would

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Speaker 2: you sit there in that jury and say, yeah, sounds

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Speaker 2: to me like that that that that that story kind

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Speaker 2: of hangs together. Yeah, yeah, we'll see coming back. Six one, seven, two, five,

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Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine three, one ten

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Speaker 2: thirty Back on Nightside.

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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on.

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Speaker 2: Boston's news Radio with me is Phil Tracy, experienced criminal

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Speaker 2: defense lawyer. Phil. Essentially, what the defense lawyer in this case,

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Speaker 2: Attorney Tipton, is asking the jury to accept is that

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Speaker 2: this guy did the dishes after this small New Year's

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Speaker 2: get together with just one other person when he went upstairs,

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Speaker 2: he found that his wife was not responsive. He tried

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Speaker 2: to wake or she didn't wake up. He pushed, he

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Speaker 2: nudged her a couple of times. One time he actually

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Speaker 2: nudged her and she fell off the bed dead. Now

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Speaker 2: you would think that most people in that situation would say,

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Speaker 2: I got to call nine to one one. That's not

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Speaker 2: what he did. Not what he did. And the next

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Speaker 2: day they have videotape of this guy going around and

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Speaker 2: buying all of these implements that he would have needed.

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Speaker 2: This is what the prosecution says. They are going to

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Speaker 2: be able to show what do you do? And we'll

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Speaker 2: get to the case a little bit more. But as

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Speaker 2: a lawyer, if walk said to them, look I killed her,

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Speaker 2: but here's a great story I could use, they have

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Speaker 2: to recuse themselves at that point.

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Speaker 4: Correct, that's the line, that's the line in the sand.

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Speaker 4: You just said it. In other words, if he says

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Speaker 4: this is what happened, it is your duty as a

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Speaker 4: lawyer to present that to the person who's going to

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Speaker 4: make the judgment, a judge or a jury. The bottom

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Speaker 4: line here is if he says, I did it, but

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Speaker 4: I want you to tell him the story, that's where

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Speaker 4: I bail out, and that's where I hope every lawyer

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Speaker 4: in Massachusetts would bail out. Now, I can't say anything

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Speaker 4: about Tipton. I don't know him that well. He is

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Speaker 4: an experienced lawyer, uh young. Greg Connor is a very

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Speaker 4: good lawyer who I've had tases with and you know,

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Speaker 4: but the danger is, as my wife told me, that uh,

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Speaker 4: one juror could somehow, you know, be swayed that this

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Speaker 4: could have happened, and that this is preventing that eur

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Speaker 4: from going beyond a reasonable doubt. So that's that's the

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Speaker 4: hard part there. If this case ever went down as

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Speaker 4: a not guilty, which I don't think it will, the

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Speaker 4: only thing they could happen is, unfortunately, a retrial. Now

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Speaker 4: there's there's a lot of things no there what.

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Speaker 2: Holden want to make sure that that our audience is

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Speaker 2: not confused if this came up as a as as

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Speaker 2: a not guilty.

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Speaker 4: Uh yeah, yeah, this jury and they could go back

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Speaker 4: it was not guilty. It came up like the read

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Speaker 4: case as a hung jury, they'd have to try it

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Speaker 4: over again because maybe one or two puldouts they call

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Speaker 4: them when they're in the jury room didn't have found

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Speaker 4: that that the story has proposed uh pass muster in

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Speaker 4: that it did not reach the line of proof on

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Speaker 4: a reasonable doubt.

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Speaker 2: Well, the other thing, one of which we should talk

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Speaker 2: about phil briefly is jury nullification. There had been occasions

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Speaker 2: that I'm aware of, where somehow, some way the due

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Speaker 2: diligence in the idea wasn't adequately done, and somehow, some

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Speaker 2: way a juror is impaneled, and that juror has made

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Speaker 2: up their decision their mind ahead of time for whatever reason,

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason, that they are not even going to

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Speaker 2: participate in the deliberations. And there I can think of

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Speaker 2: the case where there's there have been, There's been at

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Speaker 2: least one juror that I know of that said, look,

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Speaker 2: I'm not voting a convict, period, and I don't care

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Speaker 2: what the evidence shows. I am not gonna There are

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Speaker 2: some people who have no faith in the system, and

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Speaker 2: they they are they are actually they're almost adversarial to

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Speaker 2: the whole concept of the jury trial and jury of

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Speaker 2: your peers and all of that. But I just look

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Speaker 2: at this and I think to myself, the average person,

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Speaker 2: you go upstairs and for some reason, your spouse, your

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Speaker 2: partner is unresponsive. You call nine one one. That's that's

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Speaker 2: not only.

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Speaker 4: You said. There's not a word about him trying to revive,

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Speaker 4: trying to well, not only nine one one, but let's

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Speaker 4: just say she had a physician for instances.

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Speaker 9: What do I do?

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Speaker 4: Or a friend?

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Speaker 10: No, what do I do?

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Speaker 4: She's passed out. It doesn't pass months.

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Speaker 2: I thought I thought where they were going to go

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Speaker 2: with this when they admitted to a disposal of the

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Speaker 2: body and misleading investigators. I thought that they were going

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Speaker 2: to say, oh, they had an argument, and that he

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Speaker 2: did not want to be involved in the argument. And

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Speaker 2: he rushed out of the kitchen and went upstairs and

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Speaker 2: didn't realize that he had bumped her and that she

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Speaker 2: fell and she hit her head against the counter, And

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Speaker 2: when he came down fifteen or twenty minutes later, hoping

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Speaker 2: everything had cooled down, he realized that she was dead

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Speaker 2: on the floor.

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Speaker 4: Now, now let me say this, if I were, that's

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Speaker 4: a more believable story than the one who's there trying

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Speaker 4: to road down. But remember, until the audience this the

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Speaker 4: opening statement is not evidence. Yeah, no, of course, I

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Speaker 4: don't know how they would get any evidence in there

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Speaker 4: unless he took the stand.

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Speaker 2: He's going to have to take the stand. He's going

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Speaker 2: to have to take the witness stand. I don't see it.

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Speaker 2: He avoids and at that point I would assume that

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Speaker 2: the prosecute is going to be able to literally ask

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Speaker 2: him questions to which which will just show them that

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Speaker 2: any reasonable person, I mean, I guess the other alternative

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Speaker 2: would have been a potential insanity. Please, but that's still

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Speaker 2: going to end up being. You know, you're going to

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Speaker 2: spend a lot of time, maybe the rest of your life. Well,

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Speaker 2: we'll take some calls, we'll take some questions, and we'll

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Speaker 2: also we have some more sound from this extraordinary This

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Speaker 2: is I've this, this case is going to go down.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's no doubt about it. This this this

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Speaker 2: may last longer than the Karen Reid trial because, uh,

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Speaker 2: in the minds of people. Here are the numbers we

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Speaker 2: got wide open lines six, one, seven, two, five, four

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Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.

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Speaker 2: My question to my audience is if you had been

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Speaker 2: impaneled as a juror, and by the way, the judge

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Speaker 2: has ordered the jurors not to listen to television, or

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Speaker 2: read newspapers or listen to radio. So I'm sure, we're

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Speaker 2: not influencing anyone anyone, but I'm wondering if there is

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Speaker 2: anything in anyone in this audience tonight who, after having

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Speaker 2: heard of what went on in court today, could say

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Speaker 2: that this sounds like a story that has any level

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Speaker 2: of credibility. Six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty

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Speaker 2: six one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. Coming back

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Speaker 2: with my guest, longtime criminal defense attorney Phil Tracy.

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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on wbzas Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: Come at the Brian Walsh case which began for real

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Speaker 2: today opening statements by the prosecution and defense. With me

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Speaker 2: is longtime criminal defense attorney in Boston, Phil Tracy. Phil,

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Speaker 2: I just want to play a little bit more here

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Speaker 2: of the defense lawyer. His name is Attorney Tipton, and

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Speaker 2: again obviously a difficulty case here, Larry Tipton. This is

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Speaker 2: a sound bite that's cut twenty five.

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Speaker 5: Please, Robin, you will hear evidence that it happens.

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Speaker 3: It is to this day not well understood, and that

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Speaker 3: is the evidence you will hear, and it is not

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Speaker 3: well known.

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Speaker 6: To non medical professionals. You will hear evidence Brian Welsh.

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Speaker 6: Never imagine some suddenly die.

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Speaker 2: That sounds to me like they're going to try to

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Speaker 2: find some doctor who's going and to say, yes, it

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Speaker 2: is possible that a thirty nine year old woman who

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Speaker 2: is an apparent good health can suddenly die, And there

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Speaker 2: are cases like that, Obviously, there are occasionally cases like that.

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Speaker 2: In this case, there was no opportunity to do an autopsy.

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Speaker 2: In this case, there was no opportunity to figure out

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Speaker 2: if she had ingested some form of narcotic which might

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Speaker 2: have killed her, or anything like that. So, in effect,

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Speaker 2: wallsh In admitting that he disposed of the body really

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Speaker 2: almost gave the jury nothing to hang their hat on.

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Speaker 2: You know, if some medical examiner had looked at the

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Speaker 2: body and said, yeah, there was there was a blockage

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Speaker 2: of in her heart. I just kind of imagine what

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Speaker 2: medical expert he is going to be able to put

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Speaker 2: on can talk about the specifics of her death because

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Speaker 2: the body never been discovered.

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Speaker 4: Are you're not there?

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Speaker 2: They can talk ethically, they could talk hypothetically, is it

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Speaker 2: possible that somebody for no apparent reason can can die?

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Speaker 2: But then that still doesn't get past the question of

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Speaker 2: his actions. And in order to explain his actions, he's

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Speaker 2: got to get on the witness stand because it's only

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Speaker 2: he that can explain what would have driven him to

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Speaker 2: do what he claims he did. Go ahead, Phil, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 4: That's okay, kid, You're hitting it right on the head.

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Speaker 4: The problem is this. Usually they used to say that

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Speaker 4: if you didn't have a body, the prosecution was hindered

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Speaker 4: by that, you'd have to have all sorts of circumstantial evidence. Well,

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Speaker 4: he's given the circumstantial evidence by making these attempts to

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Speaker 4: find to prove the internet out of this disposed dismember

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Speaker 4: not true a body. It's pretty heenus stuff. And it's

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Speaker 4: with three little boys in bed upstairs. Oh, I mean,

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Speaker 4: a lot of yours will say this guy's a monster.

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Speaker 4: His body language doesn't look too good either, because he's

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Speaker 4: sort of, you know, sitting there like you know, cock robin,

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Speaker 4: like he's got some you know what I mean. It's

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Speaker 4: just not a book.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 10: No.

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Speaker 2: And remember when he was first arrested, there's a photograph

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Speaker 2: of him in custody and he's smiling as if as

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Speaker 2: if he had just won a super Bowl or something.

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Speaker 2: I just I'm amazed. Let's see what some of our

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Speaker 2: listeners think as we go along here, Phil let me

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Speaker 2: go first, up to Tom and Weymouth. Hey, Tom, welcome,

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Speaker 2: you're a night side. I'm here along with Phil Tracy,

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Speaker 2: a very experienced criminal defense attorney. Go right ahead, Tom,

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Speaker 2: what's your comment of question?

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Speaker 9: Thanks you for your time, Dan, And hello mister Tracy.

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Speaker 9: I love you when you're on the show. Mister Tracy.

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Speaker 9: I just love your perspective on so many things. It's

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Speaker 9: refreshing and I'm so glad you're hit tonight to comment

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Speaker 9: on this. And I just want to say a couple

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Speaker 9: quick things. Dan took the words out of my mouth

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Speaker 9: when he was saying the other day, this guy is

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Speaker 9: a monster. I think you know he was in court

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Speaker 9: and he was smiling and waving to his mother.

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Speaker 4: It was actually that was strange. Yeah, it was strange.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what strangers? We just we just lost the call

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Speaker 2: to Tom. If if you want to call back, feel

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Speaker 2: feel free. We're talking about the beginning. Uh, the really,

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Speaker 2: the the opening the jury was was chosen last week,

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Speaker 2: but the opening statements by prosecution and defense, and again

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Speaker 2: it just to me defies any level of reason, any

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Speaker 2: level of reason whatsoever. Uh, that if someone did find

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Speaker 2: a family member on a responsive that the first instinct

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Speaker 2: would not be to if not, if you're not capable

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Speaker 2: of providing some form of resuscitation. You know, you've seen

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Speaker 2: it all on television all every time, you know, chess

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Speaker 2: compressions and things like that. You I mean, what what

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Speaker 2: is he who knows what he's going to say to

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Speaker 2: to the to the prosecutor. But he's going to have

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Speaker 2: to get on the witness stand here. They just can't

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Speaker 2: spin this tail and have him sit.

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Speaker 4: There and then let let it hang out there. You know,

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Speaker 4: there's got to be although Dan, you just touched on it.

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Speaker 4: They'll get an expert who say that two things. Number one,

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Speaker 4: you can die, you can drop dead in the old

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Speaker 4: fashioned way, and people can panic. They might try to

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Speaker 4: bring some psychiatrists in to say, uh, the panic is

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Speaker 4: not an abnormal reaction to such a horrible thing as this.

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Speaker 2: Our call has has has rejoined us here, Phil, you

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Speaker 2: must have run into a bad spot. Hey, Tom, you're

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Speaker 2: thanks for checking back in what why don't you repeat

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Speaker 2: your comment or question?

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Speaker 9: Okay, certainly, thank you very much. And again I'm so

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Speaker 9: excited to mister Tracy's on the show. I really enjoy

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Speaker 9: when he's on the show in his carment.

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Speaker 2: Thank you are you not related to Attorney Tracy here?

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Speaker 2: All right, I'm not getting gloved ahead, Go ahead, Tom,

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Speaker 2: It's one of my.

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Speaker 9: Favorite favorite people that you have on the show. Then,

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Speaker 9: But anyways, I'll get right to the point. You know,

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Speaker 9: what did it for me? Uh? And I believe in

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Speaker 9: due process and being fair. But you know, the the

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Speaker 9: internet searches which are ultra specific, which just blew my mind.

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Speaker 9: And then the fact that you know, on some Wednesday afternoon,

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Speaker 9: he goes to the home people on Wednesday on on

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Speaker 9: some midday and he buys these very very very specific

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Speaker 9: items the tie back suit, leach and and and the

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Speaker 9: hacksaw and some other items that really tie into what

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Speaker 9: you might need if you were to dismember a body,

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Speaker 9: and how to cover up the smell and whatnot. I mean,

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Speaker 9: you're not buying that for any other reason. So all

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Speaker 9: that I can say to myself is when you have

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Speaker 9: an Internet search that specific, and then you go to

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Speaker 9: the store and you buy these items that really tie

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Speaker 9: into something like that if you were going to do that,

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Speaker 9: and then you delay reporting reporting it to the police

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Speaker 9: to give yourself enough time for the body if he

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Speaker 9: did dismember her, for that to be taken away, you know,

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Speaker 9: by the trash disposal companies, and then we may find

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Speaker 9: on top of it all, then DNA evidence around one

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Speaker 9: of the dumpsters or something like that. I mean, I

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Speaker 9: just can't imagine the defense lawyer trying to convince or

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Speaker 9: even influence a jury to the contract.

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Speaker 2: Are you going to, well, the defense lawyer assuming that

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Speaker 2: that Wolves has not told him a different story if

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Speaker 2: he has said to Wolves, tell me what happened, but

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Speaker 2: be careful what you say. Uh, and and and he

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Speaker 2: has not, as Phil said, crossed over the line. The

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Speaker 2: other thing that Phil mentioned once I thought was a

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Speaker 2: great point is that this guy has left this digital

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Speaker 2: footprint on his I guess his son's laptop computer. Now,

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Speaker 2: in the old days, if someone was contemplating disposing of

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Speaker 2: a body in the old days, they probably would have

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Speaker 2: gone to a public library where they weren't known and

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Speaker 2: and and looked at some books and maybe taking some notes.

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Speaker 2: But now he's left this digital footprint that Tom you

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Speaker 2: just referred to, Phil, It shows how convenient the internet

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Speaker 2: is for for for people. But it also and we

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Speaker 2: lost Tom again there, so that's the timing, is okay? There? Uh?

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Speaker 2: This how dumb? I mean, how evil of evil and

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Speaker 2: stupidity I.

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Speaker 4: Mean, and a criminal mind. Now what I mean by

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Speaker 4: that is he had already been federally charged with fraud

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Speaker 4: about some paintings or something, Yes, and he was gonna

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Speaker 4: was going to do time for that anyways. Yeah, so

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Speaker 4: I think he had like the show says, he was

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Speaker 4: a he had a criminal mind. That's what it looked

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Speaker 4: like from the outside and from the jurisd perspective. I

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Speaker 4: don't know how you he can get around this.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break. We'll get more phone calls

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Speaker 2: for Phil Tracy, Tom and Waymouth's favorite guest on Nightside,

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Speaker 2: one of my favorite guests as well, Phil Tracy. Attorney Tracy,

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Speaker 2: who have known for a long time a great criminal

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Speaker 2: defense lawyer here in Boston. And we're basically looking at

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Speaker 2: the opening day, the actual opening day of the Brian

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Speaker 2: wallsh trial. And we'll come back if you'd like to

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Speaker 2: continue the conversation. I got Steven Cambridge coming up. Always

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Speaker 2: will have an interesting take six one, seven, two, five, four,

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Speaker 2: ten thirty six, one seven, nine, three, ten thirty back

434
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Speaker 2: with more calls in an attorney Phil Tracy.

435
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: Right after this, you're on Night Side with Dan Ray

436
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: on w BZ, Boston's news radio with Biss.

437
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 2: Phil Tracy, Boston attorney, criminal defense attorney. Let me go

438
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 2: next to Steve in Cambridge. Steve, you are on night Side.

439
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 2: We're talking about the Brian Walsh murder case. Phil Tracy

440
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: is alongside. Go right ahead, Steve.

441
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:35,719
Speaker 11: Good Evening, Dan Good, Evening. Mister Tracy, as far as

442
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 11: I can understand, he has already pled guilty to the

443
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 11: improper disposal of a body. Is that correct?

444
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: That is correct?

445
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 4: Correct?

446
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 11: So what he's been what he's he's not contesting that,

447
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 11: he is saying.

448
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 4: He did not murder her.

449
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: That's correct.

450
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 11: And I can just think of two comments they could make.

451
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 11: Number one, if it's not a professional secret, how much

452
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 11: would a criminal defense like this cost? Can you give

453
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 11: us a ball park idea to layman a ball park idea?

454
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 11: Not that I think I'm going to need one.

455
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: It depends upon the client. To be really honest with you, Steve,

456
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 2: I don't think this guy has has a lot of

457
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 2: money at this point.

458
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 4: But Tipton, his current lawyer is it is a very

459
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 4: experienced lawyer. Uh And I think he was at the

460
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 4: top of the scot for the public defenders. Now I

461
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 4: don't know if he's in private practice now, but he

462
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 4: might be a public defender on this case. Because so

463
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 4: you don't know guy has any money.

464
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let me ask you this question, Phil, if

465
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: this I had a limited case his let me let

466
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: me change Steve's question lit bit, if this guy had

467
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: unlimited funds on a murder case like this, And and Steve,

468
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: I assume you know your question here is what is

469
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 2: the normal rate for a case of this seriousness?

470
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 4: Right?

471
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 11: And I know you're both attorneys, so I don't want

472
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 11: you to give away any professional.

473
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 4: Secrets, but I can tell you that it's above one

474
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 4: hundred thousand, might be two hundred thousand, because if you

475
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 4: were a from private attorney, you would be looking for

476
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 4: expert witnesses. And in this case, if the if this

477
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 4: is being funded by the Committee for Public Counsel, they

478
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: can access those type of expert witnesses. So those type

479
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 4: of things if you're private, you can you know, years

480
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 4: ago down in Texas, there was a guy named Racehorse

481
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 4: Ains and he had these millionaire oilmen and he got

482
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 4: a lot of them off for bad things, particularly one

483
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 4: I can remember where his wife had a girlfriend a

484
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 4: boyfriend and he killed them both and he got away

485
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 4: with it because the lawyer was renowned for getting.

486
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 11: I think I heard about this learn I think he

487
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 11: got someone off who's accused of killing a twelve year

488
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 11: old girl.

489
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know, but you know, once again,

490
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 4: the key element in this is you have to defend

491
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 4: your client to the best of your ability and make

492
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 4: the government proved on a reasonable doubt that this is

493
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 4: the that your client is guilty. Now, on the other hand,

494
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 4: as Dan correctly said, if this guy says I want

495
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,719
Speaker 4: you get up there and lie, you can't do that.

496
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 4: That's crossing a line that should never be crossed. I

497
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 4: would say, you've got to get somebody else because I

498
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 4: won't do that. I will be disburbed.

499
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 11: If that was proved, you would be disbarred.

500
00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 4: I assume, well, you know what, for him to stand

501
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 4: up and say these things from the jury, it has

502
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 4: to be coming from the defendant. That's my take on it.

503
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 11: I mean, think of one expert witness who could help

504
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 11: them out. If the woman's doctor, and I'm sure this

505
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 11: is probably not going to be the case, said she

506
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 11: was suffering some foremi illness that could have caused immediate

507
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 11: death and sudden debt.

508
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: So I just want to add I just want to

509
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: add one thing, gentlemen, and that is that if the

510
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 2: defendant wants to get on the witness stand and the

511
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 2: lawyer knows the defendant is going to lie, okay, if

512
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 2: he knows he's going to lie, and we got to

513
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: define no, is he he knows he's going to lie,

514
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,719
Speaker 2: not that he suspects, but if he knows he's going

515
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: to lie, he has an obligation. In my opinion, the

516
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 2: training that I received would be to say to the court,

517
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: I want to call my client who would like to

518
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,840
Speaker 2: make a statement to the court, and he could not engage,

519
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: in my opinion, as a lawyer in good faith in

520
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 2: a colloquy with the his defendant if he is aware

521
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 2: the fact that what the defendant is going to say

522
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 2: is untrue.

523
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 11: Exactly, that would be participating in praise.

524
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: Yep, Okay, yep, Steve, I got I gotta let you go.

525
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 11: I want to get one Steve.

526
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to get one more in here.

527
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: Larry is in New York. Larry, are you there? Let

528
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: me try this. Larry put that Larry on hold. I

529
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 2: think he's called it until Larry go right ahead, Yes, sir,

530
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 2: go ahead, Larry to go ahead, No problem at all.

531
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 10: So let's play a little have a little fun here. Counselor,

532
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 10: you are handed the file. You were told by the

533
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 10: judge that this defendant is indigent, and you are going

534
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 10: to act to the public defender. What is your defense?

535
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 10: Lay it out for us?

536
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 4: Well, Dan had mentioned if you were going to say,

537
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 4: I pant and dispose of the body, a better story

538
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 4: would be we were pushing and shoving. I just pushed

539
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 4: her away and went upstairs and went to bed. I

540
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 4: came back down found us she had fallen and hit

541
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 4: her head. That would be a more plausible description. Then

542
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 4: she was in bed and she wasn't moving. And then

543
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,359
Speaker 4: Dan brought up again, why did you call nine one one?

544
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,959
Speaker 4: Why didn't you call your neighbor? Why didn't you call

545
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 4: the doctor? So well the police? But he was for

546
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,919
Speaker 4: two or three days acting like she just disappeared.

547
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 10: So what do you offer is something that will get

548
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 10: you at least one juror.

549
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 4: I think that's the best you could offer. And again,

550
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 4: if the guy is telling you I got to make

551
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 4: up a story, then you got to get out of

552
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 4: the case. Yeah, that's a guy who's trying to take

553
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,359
Speaker 4: the stand and lie and you know it. You got

554
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 4: to get out of it that way too.

555
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: I mean, if the guy convinced you that he had

556
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 2: somehow inadvertently rushing out of the room, he was, he

557
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: was angry that he rushed by her, didn't realize that

558
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 2: bumped she lost her balance. That's a potentially believable story.

559
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: This story I don't think has any credibility whatsoever. Larry,

560
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,399
Speaker 2: thank you for calling in. Unfortunately we're flat out of time,

561
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 2: so I gotta let you Larry. Thanks for listening down

562
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 2: in New York. I know who this Larry is. Thank

563
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 2: you my friend. I phil.

564
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 4: Absolutely appreciate and I'll be available to you anytime.

565
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: Well, as this case goes on, we'll have you back.

566
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 2: And they won't play a football game up against US,

567
00:36:59,480 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: I promise.

568
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, that's a blowout.

569
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 2: Hopefully people are coming back in the next hour, Bacerfield,

570
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 2: Thank you much, bow and get back. I'd like to

571
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: continue on this story, and I'd like to find out

572
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: if there's anyone out there who could have been a

573
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 2: durer that could have believed can believe this story. That's

574
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: what my question is, that's my challenge we'll try to

575
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 2: do that right after the ten o'clock news here on

576
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 2: night Side