Speaker 1: Do want to be an American idiot?
Speaker 2: Hi Scott flown back on seven hundred wals of it,
Speaker 2: And so we heard the news that last week Hamilic
Speaker 2: County commissioners with four and a half percent Carbert Tech
Speaker 2: rebate for next year. Of course, we all remember the
Speaker 2: thirty percent promise when voters approved the half scent sales
Speaker 2: tax increased back in the mid nineties to fund the
Speaker 2: stadiums downtown. Was also finding out that that's the lowest
Speaker 2: number we've had as far as their rebate goes. Now,
Speaker 2: the vote two to one. Commissioner Alisia Reese was dissenting
Speaker 2: supporting it. Of course, we're we're a commissioner's Denise Treehouse,
Speaker 2: the Hamlin County commissioned president who joins us now on
Speaker 2: the show to talk about it on seven hundred ww
Speaker 2: welcome back Denise Hau's life.
Speaker 3: Yeah doing well, Scott.
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 1: I'm good? I'm good.
Speaker 2: I know you've got sexy budget meetings to get to
Speaker 2: and everything else because you're a numbers chick. So God
Speaker 2: bless you, God speed. You're better than I'm at that stuff.
Speaker 2: So let's look at and you know, your contemporary a
Speaker 2: Lisha Reese was on the show last week, and I
Speaker 2: know we had some things you wanted to get off
Speaker 2: your chest relative to that conversation without playing all the
Speaker 2: highlights of that. But you know, you've been in county
Speaker 2: government and been around long enough to remember the ninety
Speaker 2: six stadium campaign and looking back, do you think voters
Speaker 2: were given an honest picture of what that thirty percent
Speaker 2: property tax reabit it actually mean?
Speaker 1: Or was there some bait and switch happening?
Speaker 2: Because I think if you surveyed, most taxpayers who were
Speaker 2: around them feel that there was a bait and switch
Speaker 2: and it was intentional.
Speaker 3: Was your thoughts, Well, I'll tell you what I did
Speaker 3: want to come on just to correct some things. I mean,
Speaker 3: we can all have differences of opinion about what happened
Speaker 3: and why it happened, but the fact of the facts,
Speaker 3: and so I didn't want to have your listeners come
Speaker 3: away with the wrong impression on what has happened in
Speaker 3: the past. And so, as you say, starting out, when
Speaker 3: this thing was offered to the taxpayers, there was a
Speaker 3: sales tax and then this rebate and for the first
Speaker 3: fourteen years they did a thirty percent. I mean, they
Speaker 3: promised it and they did it. But what happened was
Speaker 3: the sales tax that was collected. It didn't keep up.
Speaker 3: The revenue did not keep up with making sure that
Speaker 3: we meet the obligations of the fund, with the debt
Speaker 3: service and the pilot and all the things, maintenance of
Speaker 3: the stadiums, all the things, and the PPR. And so
Speaker 3: back in twenty eleven you saw a significant dip from
Speaker 3: thirty down to seven point eight. And so this ebb
Speaker 3: and flow has been going on for a while, depending
Speaker 3: on what can be afforded through this fund, right, and
Speaker 3: so a number of years ago, probably three four years ago,
Speaker 3: the administrator offered a formula that said we need to
Speaker 3: keep about eighty five percent in the reserve. Okay, that's responsible,
Speaker 3: that's what's been advised by our consultants. That's great. So
Speaker 3: let's create a formula where we keep the eighty five
Speaker 3: percent and then do the rebate according to that. And
Speaker 3: so that's something that would have offered us the ability
Speaker 3: to give a rebate. Wouldn't have been the thirty, but
Speaker 3: it would have been a starting point. And then each
Speaker 3: year try to go up a little bit for the
Speaker 3: property tax owners or the property deck players. And we
Speaker 3: haven't stepped to the formula, and so when you do
Speaker 3: the thirty percent, it blows up the formula and you
Speaker 3: can't afford to do that year after year.
Speaker 2: I guess the other way of looking at this too,
Speaker 2: then would be, Okay, well we have money for the homeless.
Speaker 2: We're going to give deputies a five percent increase. There's
Speaker 2: other things in the budget against not just the one thing,
Speaker 2: but I guess the taxpa mask Okay, I understand all that.
Speaker 2: Then why isn't this a bigger priority or based on
Speaker 2: the Matthew just described, it's impossible.
Speaker 3: Well, no, I think the priority is providing relief for
Speaker 3: property owners, and we are doing that. This isn't the
Speaker 3: only game in town when it comes to how to
Speaker 3: provide property tax relief, and so let's not forget about
Speaker 3: what's going on in the legislature. I did sit on
Speaker 3: Governor Downe's pass forth with Phil Site trying to come
Speaker 3: up with some ideas to provide relief. We had twenty
Speaker 3: suggestions for the legislature and some for ourselves, and so
Speaker 3: we are starting to implement some of that, not the
Speaker 3: least of which its House Phil. Three thirty five, which
Speaker 3: says that our revenue, the county's revenue will be held
Speaker 3: our inside millage will be held to the rate of inflation.
Speaker 3: That is a reduction in revenue for the county and
Speaker 3: relief to the taxpayers, and so you will not see
Speaker 3: the spikes that we have seen in the past for
Speaker 3: property tax bills because we're going to be held to
Speaker 3: the rate of inflation. We're taking a hit on that.
Speaker 3: It's probably about fifteen million a year, but we're willing
Speaker 3: to do that as part of the solution. So it's
Speaker 3: not as if the county is not working on property
Speaker 3: tax relief. We're giving some relief by the way through
Speaker 3: the PPR. It's just is not as much as the
Speaker 3: thirty percent. So there are other ways to provide this
Speaker 3: relief outside the PPR.
Speaker 2: So it would be a messaging kind of thing. Is
Speaker 2: that what you're saying is you're going to get the
Speaker 2: money back, it just won't be in the thirty percent
Speaker 2: property tax rebate.
Speaker 3: Well, we're always trying to look out for the taxpayers
Speaker 3: and do as little increase as possible. But as I said,
Speaker 3: we've got partners in this fight here right in the state.
Speaker 3: I wish the state we're doing more candidly, but we
Speaker 3: are doing our part, and we didn't have to support
Speaker 3: House Built three thirty five. But we did that knowing
Speaker 3: that we were going to take a cut because we
Speaker 3: thought it was an important thing to do by way
Speaker 3: of the county to provide some relief to people that
Speaker 3: are struggling. And let me say one other thing, because
Speaker 3: I heard it said that the tax players got written
Speaker 3: out of the stadium, fact seal that the opposite is true.
Speaker 3: The financial plan actually ensured that the PTR remains in
Speaker 3: the formula in the equation. It's a matter of degree,
Speaker 3: and that's always what we fight about. But we literally
Speaker 3: wrote it into the least negotiations with the Bangles in
Speaker 3: the financial stack, and so we didn't write it out.
Speaker 3: We literally wrote it in to the financial stack.
Speaker 2: Could the thirty percent rebate have been part of the
Speaker 2: new stadium deal the two hundred and eleven nois which
Speaker 2: by the way that you're voting.
Speaker 3: On today, Well, it is part of it. As I said,
Speaker 3: it's just a matter of degree the PTR is in there.
Speaker 3: It's just the thirty percent ebbs and flows given the
Speaker 3: amount of revenue that's coming into that fun.
Speaker 2: Okay, So what would then find in subsequent years at
Speaker 2: ease three house.
Speaker 1: What can people expect as far as they rebate goes.
Speaker 3: Well, what I would like to do is again go
Speaker 3: back to this formula and say we are going to
Speaker 3: do as much as we can and hopefully increase it
Speaker 3: year after year so people always see that kind of increase.
Speaker 3: The other thing it does is structure something where it's
Speaker 3: more predictable and so that you should see the chart.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've seen the chart where it
Speaker 3: goes up and down and up and down, and they're
Speaker 3: dramatic shifts, and so I you know, I'm a packed player.
Speaker 3: I would rather see something that is something I can
Speaker 3: count on and that I can budget for. And we're
Speaker 3: talking about maybe the delta between the four point five
Speaker 3: that was voted this year in the thirty is about
Speaker 3: seventy bucks, So we're not talking about hundreds of dollars.
Speaker 3: I know seventy dollars is a significant amount of money,
Speaker 3: but when it comes to your household budget, that's what
Speaker 3: we're talking about.
Speaker 2: Well, but if you're a senior fixating people on the margins,
Speaker 2: were plenty of those people that are afraid they can't
Speaker 2: pay their property taxes because what the state's doing, and
Speaker 2: of course the reassessments and the like. You had this
Speaker 2: in there as well, and you know eventually it's going
Speaker 2: to be a breaking point. I know, it's just seventy dollars.
Speaker 2: There's some people that seventy dollars there's a lot of
Speaker 2: money though.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agreed, And so we're trying to provide that
Speaker 3: release another way. As I said, the PPR is not
Speaker 3: the only way to get this done, and so we're
Speaker 3: providing the release through these other mechanisms. And by the way,
Speaker 3: that there are longer terms right, House three thirty five
Speaker 3: is ongoing. It's not something that's decided year after year.
Speaker 3: It's going to be lost, and so we will be
Speaker 3: held to the rate of inflation, and so that release
Speaker 3: will be ongoing and so we won't have this debate
Speaker 3: every year. That will stay in place.
Speaker 2: Commissioner Denise Triethouse, President of commission and talking about the
Speaker 2: meeting today, the vote today two hundred and eleven for
Speaker 2: pay Corps. We also had word that it's only a
Speaker 2: four and a half percent property tax rebate for next
Speaker 2: year instead of the thirty percent promise when we approved
Speaker 2: the ninety six stadium front buildout. So the truth is
Speaker 2: then going to be somewhere between four and a half
Speaker 2: and thirty percent with all these ways of finance or
Speaker 2: getting that money back to taxpayers, Denise, are we ever
Speaker 2: going to get close to thirty Because while the four
Speaker 2: and a half percent right now, especially with the new deal,
Speaker 2: is bad timing on the part Forer, I think for
Speaker 2: a lot of homeowners and taxpayers.
Speaker 1: Do you agree?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, Scott, I have voted for thirty in
Speaker 3: the payout, So when we could afford it, I voted
Speaker 3: for it, and when I thought it was necessary for
Speaker 3: the taxpayers, I did it. The fact of the matter, though,
Speaker 3: is that you can't sustain that. You can do it,
Speaker 3: but you can't keep doing it because then you bankrupt
Speaker 3: the fund. So if we were to do a thirty
Speaker 3: percent this year, the vote we just took, we would
Speaker 3: have reduced the fund dramatically, and so that that hurts
Speaker 3: the fund. By the way we're supposed to keep eighty
Speaker 3: five percent, we would have been way way down. The
Speaker 3: other piece of that so is that it impacts next year,
Speaker 3: and so if you do the thirty percent this year,
Speaker 3: then you're in trouble next year. And that's what's happened.
Speaker 3: We did thirty percent last year, and I didn't vote
Speaker 3: for that because I didn't think it was responsible. And
Speaker 3: so now we're in a position this year where we
Speaker 3: can't do it again. So you know, year after year
Speaker 3: it all plays upon. This is why I'm in favor
Speaker 3: of this formula. So we don't have this dynamic where
Speaker 3: we've got thirty percent and then we got to go
Speaker 3: to four point five. I mean, yeah, do I wish
Speaker 3: it was higher, Yes, I do, but you know, we're
Speaker 3: looking at the finances as fund and not bankrupting the fund.
Speaker 3: So it is what it is. And I also was
Speaker 3: listening and heard that this idea that the attack players
Speaker 3: didn't get anything through the new lease with the Bengals,
Speaker 3: and nothing could be further from the truth. Where we
Speaker 3: got the Bengals to pay one hundred and twenty million
Speaker 3: dollars into our asset, which is that stadium, we capped
Speaker 3: our cost of three hundred and fifty million, which has
Speaker 3: never happened, and we got a long term deal with
Speaker 3: the Bengals, and we got use of that stadium like
Speaker 3: in a way that we never do right. And so
Speaker 3: then we get to have high school football games between
Speaker 3: Elder and ex played at the stadium. So let's not
Speaker 3: forget about the community benefits that came through that lease
Speaker 3: in addition to the financial benefits that we got as
Speaker 3: the county.
Speaker 2: Well we need to have I mean, that's all nice
Speaker 2: for Saint exe and Elder, but why aren't we using
Speaker 2: the stadium more? I thought initially when this happened that
Speaker 2: we'd see a lot more activity outside the occasional Taylor
Speaker 2: Swift show, a lot more of what we're talking about
Speaker 2: with football. Why does it take well twenty eight years
Speaker 2: into this thing and now we're going, hey, we need
Speaker 2: to utilize the stadium more for high school athletics. Why
Speaker 2: haven't we been doing that all along?
Speaker 3: Because we didn't have control of the city, because the
Speaker 3: county didn't have control. And so through this new lease,
Speaker 3: we now have access to that stadium as we should.
Speaker 3: It belongs to the tax players, and so we had
Speaker 3: seen the first model of how that's going to play
Speaker 3: out in the years to come, where we do have
Speaker 3: more concerts, we have more events, we have more high
Speaker 3: school football games. That was the whole point of the
Speaker 3: community benefit disagreement, and so the Bengals signed off on that,
Speaker 3: and so this was our first foray into that. I
Speaker 3: thought it was a good model. It was beautiful nights,
Speaker 3: even it was a little rainy, but yeah, and look
Speaker 3: to that in the future. That's exactly what we're trying
Speaker 3: to accomplish.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But but one may look at that and go wow,
Speaker 2: that is to not see the availability, because that was
Speaker 2: something else was promised people. It was like, hey, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know the stadium that we're partners in this single
Speaker 2: bit to use the stadium. We haven't been able to
Speaker 2: And I think that's just another And I brought that
Speaker 2: up to Denise because between that and the thirty percent,
Speaker 2: I think there's a huge disconnect between elected officials like yourself,
Speaker 2: certainly the Bengals in the front office, and what the
Speaker 2: community wants and they you know, I think everyone's looking
Speaker 2: at all of these deals and going, Okay, I think
Speaker 2: we're just going to get screwed again because the pattern
Speaker 2: is there. How do you how do you change that
Speaker 2: over the next ten, fifteen, twenty years.
Speaker 3: Well, I wasn't there when this promise was made, by
Speaker 3: the way, for this thirty percent. That happened many years ago,
Speaker 3: and it wasn't a responsible promise. I mean, they had
Speaker 3: no idea, by the way, the reason we're having this
Speaker 3: conversation is because the revenue is a flat Right, if
Speaker 3: the sales tax revenue was higher, we'd be doing all.
Speaker 3: We'd be doing the thirty percent. We could afford it,
Speaker 3: we'd do it. I'd support it. That would be great.
Speaker 3: That's just not the reality. And so to promise this
Speaker 3: so many years ago, for twenty five years is not responsible.
Speaker 3: You shouldn't do that. You can't budget like that because
Speaker 3: you don't know what the economic reality is going to be.
Speaker 3: You don't know what the economy is going to be.
Speaker 3: So I try not to make unrealistic promises to people.
Speaker 3: I try to honor what I had said I could
Speaker 3: do and try to do as much as possible, whether
Speaker 3: it's thirty percent or something less than that, we're trying
Speaker 3: to do as much as possible. And I know something
Speaker 3: else that was raised in your conversation was MFD, which
Speaker 3: is another challenge for us because we're under the federal
Speaker 3: and you know, it's a mandate from the federal government,
Speaker 3: the Consent Decree, but it's not funded. It's an unfunded mandate,
Speaker 3: and so we're under that. We've got a very old system,
Speaker 3: over one hundred years old. You know, with the pipes
Speaker 3: in the ground, and so we're trying to hold those
Speaker 3: rates as tight as possible, knowing that our counterparts in
Speaker 3: other counties are raising rates higher than what's been suggested
Speaker 3: for us. So Franklin County is up eight percent next year,
Speaker 3: Akron's going up five percent, Tyahoga is going up fourteen
Speaker 3: or four point two percent. So it's not like we're
Speaker 3: alone in this. But what we're trying to do is say,
Speaker 3: how can we keep these rates as low as possible
Speaker 3: and again make it predictable. And so next year you're
Speaker 3: going to see because we got rid of the bulk discount.
Speaker 3: And I know it's kind of in the weeds, but anyway,
Speaker 3: we got rid of the bulk discount. So next year
Speaker 3: people will not see residents will not see higher MSc
Speaker 3: race and so that's good news, and you don't hear
Speaker 3: anybody talking about that, but they were about to pass
Speaker 3: that budget too. In years after that, we're hoping to
Speaker 3: have a fairly low predictable rate so that people don't
Speaker 3: see spikes in those bills either. So you know, it's
Speaker 3: not only this one issue. We're trying to play this
Speaker 3: out across the board and provide as much relief as
Speaker 3: we can, knowing that we're under some of these man
Speaker 3: date and we have to respond to those.
Speaker 2: Commissioner Denise's treehouse last week, Alicia Reese. Commissioner Reese said
Speaker 2: that the county's rolling in money. She told me, we're
Speaker 2: rolling the mud. We got money all over the place
Speaker 2: with the banks and stadium revenues. You're saying we can't
Speaker 2: fund a full rebate and thirty percent is it can't
Speaker 2: be done, It's impossible.
Speaker 1: Are we really rolling in money?
Speaker 3: No, we are not rolling in money. I mean, we
Speaker 3: have our budget here, and we have a budget here
Speaker 3: in tonight as a matter of fact, and the revenues
Speaker 3: are relatively flack. We're doing what we can. But no,
Speaker 3: I mean it is it's very tight. Ask the sheriff,
Speaker 3: ask the prosecutor, ask the judges. The budget is very
Speaker 3: tight this year. I don't know what that refers to,
Speaker 3: but it is certainly not reality.
Speaker 1: So not rolling in money. Maybe a little bit of money.
Speaker 3: I thought, I'm wondering what we're talking about now.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know what that was the reality is this?
Speaker 2: What give me a reason? What can you expect you?
Speaker 2: What can you tell taxpayers. Now in handling count it's
Speaker 2: it can't be four and a half percent. You're saying
Speaker 2: it can't be thirty percent. What's the target?
Speaker 3: The target is keeping eighty five percent in the fun
Speaker 3: and making sure we meet our dead ol. We have
Speaker 3: dead obligations, we have obligations through a pilot payment, we
Speaker 3: have construction, we have all these obligations. So meet the obligations,
Speaker 3: and then we have built into that formula this PTR.
Speaker 3: So we will have a PTR every year and knowing
Speaker 3: it depends on the sales tax revenue and what's coming in,
Speaker 3: and that will define what we can do by way
Speaker 3: of the relief. We can't spend money we don't have.
Speaker 2: Is it is it closer to thirty percent or closer
Speaker 2: to four and a half.
Speaker 3: For when next time?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, next next cycle, and then it's going to
Speaker 2: be changed. But you said you want to get to
Speaker 2: a steady number and the number will be everyone will
Speaker 2: be happy with.
Speaker 1: Would be what I guess to the question, or you just.
Speaker 3: Simply don't know, Well, how would I know? I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know what is going to come in by
Speaker 3: way to sales tax.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean you have targets obviously, otherwise we've been
Speaker 2: doing this, so there's got to be a number in
Speaker 2: your mind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well sure, And what I'm hoping for is an
Speaker 3: increase every year. So as we look at the four
Speaker 3: point five, we go up next year, and then we
Speaker 3: go up the year after that and go after the
Speaker 3: year after that. So it's predictable and we're doing and
Speaker 3: I and I anticipate and I hate the prediction because
Speaker 3: you know, we just came out of a pandemic not
Speaker 3: too long ago, and I get an impact here right
Speaker 3: you it's very hard and we had a recession and
Speaker 3: that's where you saw another dip, so it's really hard
Speaker 3: for me to predict. But the model is set so
Speaker 3: that we start out low and we continue to grow
Speaker 3: year up to year. So that is certainly my hope.
Speaker 3: But to make a prediction gets a little dicey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough. We'll just say twenty five eight percent.
Speaker 1: How's that?
Speaker 3: Say what you'd like, and we'll try to hit that mark.
Speaker 2: Because I got to have your record, everything's recorded. I
Speaker 2: want to bring this back later and then you know,
Speaker 2: rub your nose in it to know that's like, please, well,
Speaker 2: we will do that.
Speaker 3: I would not do the MC let's get back to MSc,
Speaker 3: because that's another one that I hear quite a bit about.
Speaker 3: And so that rate, we're trying to do a predictable
Speaker 3: rate across the board for the next ten years. We're
Speaker 3: trying to hit four point five, which is a pretty
Speaker 3: modest increase. Before I got to the Commission, by the way,
Speaker 3: those rates were quite a bit higher year after year.
Speaker 3: And when I got there, we were able to hold
Speaker 3: that flat for a number of years because we had
Speaker 3: a reserve, and so we spent down some of that
Speaker 3: reserved to keep for US rates flat. But now we're
Speaker 3: back to a reserve that's reasonable that we need to
Speaker 3: increase the rate modestly year after years. So that is
Speaker 3: what I'm shooting for. Right If I can do a
Speaker 3: four point five increase for MSc for the next ten years,
Speaker 3: I think that's what people are asking me to do.
Speaker 3: Give us something predictable, make it as low as you
Speaker 3: possibly can, and that's what we're going to do. So
Speaker 3: that's what that's what I'm trying to do with the
Speaker 3: end next week. Not to be confused with the four
Speaker 3: point five PCR. And now I'm just realizing that those
Speaker 3: numbers are the same and the increase this year.
Speaker 1: PREMI, I guess, I.
Speaker 2: Guess I've got to get going. We could probably talk
Speaker 2: about this for a long time, but you got to go.
Speaker 2: You got votes, you got work to do. To d
Speaker 2: Streetouse Hamlet County Commission President, setting the record straight from
Speaker 2: her perspective, I always enjoy having you back, and thanks
Speaker 2: for taking time out to explain. Thanks, got all the
Speaker 2: best to you. And we've got a news update happening
Speaker 2: now here on seven hundred WLW