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Speaker 1: This is a podcast from WOR. Back now to the

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Speaker 1: WOR Saturday Morning Show with Larry MINTI. Welcome back. Nurses

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Speaker 1: have been on strike at five New York City hospitals

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Speaker 1: for almost a week. Is it ethical for nurses to strike? Well,

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Speaker 1: we happen to have a bioethicist to ask that very question.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Arthur Kaplan is a professor of bioethics at NYU's

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Speaker 1: Land Gone Medical Center. Doctor, I think you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm going to ask. You can men get pregnant?

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Speaker 2: Well, there are many biological No.

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Speaker 1: I really thought that was about to happen. You had

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Speaker 1: me pulled there for half a second.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there are certainly people who you know, undergo

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Speaker 2: procedures and bring along their capability to get pregnant, I

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Speaker 2: guess in different appearances or something. But no, then cannot

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Speaker 2: get pregnant. Women get pregnant.

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Speaker 1: It must, we do know. I would think as a

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Speaker 1: medical professional, this would upset you that politics get so

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Speaker 1: involved in medicine these days. In both sides, political influence

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Speaker 1: has been involved in medical treatments. It's been involved in

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Speaker 1: medical dialogue, and certainly in some of the things coming

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Speaker 1: out of Washington. Politics and medicine should be on islands

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Speaker 1: away from each other.

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Speaker 2: Well, I agree with that. You know, I'll give you

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Speaker 2: a different one. That drives me nuts. People keep saying

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Speaker 2: trumpas say that there are only two genders. That's it.

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Speaker 2: Now we know that isn't true because there are people

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Speaker 2: born with mixed genes and chromosomes. And the group that's

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Speaker 2: had a hard time with it is the Olympics. Right.

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Speaker 2: They're constantly trying to put some people into the male

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Speaker 2: or the female category, and they don't know whether they

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Speaker 2: should look at their physical trades, their gems, their hormones

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Speaker 2: and so on. So there is a tiny number of

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Speaker 2: people that follow in the sort of I don't know

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Speaker 2: what to call it, gray zone. That's biological reality. That's

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Speaker 2: just how it is. So you know, whether you want

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Speaker 2: people competing in sports to have to meet certain moves,

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Speaker 2: you can set the holes, but you don't want to

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Speaker 2: distort the biological reality in the other direction and say, well,

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Speaker 2: everybody clearly is one of the other. There were all

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Speaker 2: these racers and people who were x X Y and

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Speaker 2: so forth. They're trying to compete as women or men

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Speaker 2: or whatever they want to do. There are some fuzzy

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Speaker 2: gray zone people. I guess is the way I put it.

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Speaker 2: That's just the way it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thinking about the last Olympics. Remember there was

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Speaker 1: a female boxer who won and was just destroying everybody,

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Speaker 1: and it turned out she had high male hormones, but

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Speaker 1: she had female genital she was born with female genital. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: That's that's exactly what I'm talking talking about it. And

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Speaker 2: you can decide let her in, don't let her in,

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Speaker 2: or it's unfair, or she's too big or whatever. But

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Speaker 2: you know, the reality is there are a tiny percentage

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Speaker 2: of people super tighty who follow in this weird gray zone.

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Speaker 2: They have more horm diesosterone than you think they should

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Speaker 2: for a female, for example, or they just have mixed chromosomes.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, some people are born x y. Most

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Speaker 2: of us are xx x y, but a few of

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Speaker 2: us are like x x y y. Weird things, and

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Speaker 2: you got to decide how you want to classify them.

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Speaker 1: Here's the thing we're talking about the news, and there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of things in the news that are that

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Speaker 1: are interesting. When it comes to medical ethics, Is it

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Speaker 1: ethical for nurses to strike?

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Speaker 2: Boy? Is that an interesting issue. So we're entering day

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Speaker 2: four New York City big strike, right yep. On the

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Speaker 2: on the side of those who say yes, nurses on

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Speaker 2: strike and their supporters, they say, look for the greater good,

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Speaker 2: you've got to protect staffing these hospitals, the ones that

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Speaker 2: are striking or cutting back on the number of versus

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Speaker 2: they have on the floors at different times, they're putting

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Speaker 2: patients at risk. It's too violent. They've got to make

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Speaker 2: the place a safer for us to work. So that's

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Speaker 2: the justification. Has protect us and do something to protect

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Speaker 2: patients in the long run. In the short run, it's

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Speaker 2: not good to not have nurses around. You know what

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Speaker 2: they're trying to do leary. They're trying to use substitutes,

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Speaker 2: you know, strike breakers, what they call travel nurses. That

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Speaker 2: doesn't really work. You can't just bring somebody into a

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Speaker 2: hospital setting different specialty areas and say, you know, well,

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Speaker 2: you'll be the nurse there. It doesn't. You need to

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Speaker 2: know what's going on in the particular part of the

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Speaker 2: hospital where the nurses are not. I've always favored this.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what you think, but I think they

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Speaker 2: ought to be under like the police and fire compulsory arbitration,

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Speaker 2: mandatory mediation and arbitration. The cops can't strike, fire can't strike,

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Speaker 2: the military doesn't strike, You have them have to go

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Speaker 2: to a mediation. Why don't we do this for doctors

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Speaker 2: and nurses?

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Speaker 1: So you're not going to say it's ethical or ethical.

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Speaker 1: You just think it means it takes common sense to

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Speaker 1: know that they shouldn't be on strike, and there is

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Speaker 1: a way around this because we've done it with other professions.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, other essential professions. I don't putting people at risk,

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Speaker 2: and you are if you're on strike as a doctor,

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Speaker 2: a nurse, or a PT, you or whatever in a

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Speaker 2: hospital setting. Boy, that's hard to defend. On the other hand,

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Speaker 2: I get that the nurses may feel helpless, and what more,

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Speaker 2: nurses they say, these hospitals are paying, you know, not

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Speaker 2: enough money to really staff them properly, and we've got

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Speaker 2: to do something about it. Boy, that sounds like arbitration

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 1: You know, I want to go back to the doctor

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Speaker 1: who wouldn't answer the question about men getting pregnant, Not

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Speaker 1: because I want to deal with that, but I do

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Speaker 1: want to deal with politics being infused into medicine these days,

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Speaker 1: to the point where where a lot of people don't

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Speaker 1: know who to believe or who to follow. It's become

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Speaker 1: a problem, hasn't it.

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Speaker 2: It really is. So you get all kinds of influencers

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Speaker 2: no training out there pushing. I'll tell you what today's

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Speaker 2: big deal is. You may have seen this whole milk.

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Speaker 2: Oh the last twenty four hours, Kennedy, Trump, all kinds

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Speaker 2: of people Ben Carson have been having big meetings about.

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Speaker 2: They're very excited that whole milk is coming back into

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Speaker 2: the American diet. The war on fat, as they say,

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Speaker 2: is over, and we're all gonna be drinking whole milk.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. Two percent milk is nice

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Speaker 2: as fascination is whole milk. But it's like this magic

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Speaker 2: elixure or something, and you're sort of like, well, should

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Speaker 2: I put my kids out of whole milk that much bad?

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Speaker 2: Is it really great? So? Yeah, a lot of I

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Speaker 2: think that if I.

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Speaker 1: Were a guest doctor, I think this has something to

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Speaker 1: do with the dairy farmers. That's probably what it is.

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Speaker 2: That's my hugs too.

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Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Doctor Arthur Kaplan, Professor of Bioethics at

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Speaker 1: New York University, lend Gone Medical Center with us every

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Speaker 1: Thursday at nine oh five. Thanks a lot, Doctor, good

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Speaker 1: talking to you. Hey, this has been a podcast from

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Speaker 1: wor