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Speaker 1: You're listening to KFI on demand. So our traditions good?

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Speaker 1: Are traditions bad? Sounds like a line out of the

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Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz? Are you a good tradition or a

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Speaker 1: bad tradition? Traditions can be wonderful. Traditions often propel the past.

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Speaker 1: They help you understand from where you've come, give you

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Speaker 1: insight and a little bit of direction as to where

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Speaker 1: you're going. They preserve the rich history of something. They

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Speaker 1: promote the ideas of the elders, those that came before you.

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Speaker 1: They help you appreciate the complexity or the time that

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Speaker 1: it's taken to create or promote an idea, a process.

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Speaker 1: And I think if you don't understand truly the traditions

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Speaker 1: of your beliefs, your church, there's a loss there. You

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Speaker 1: can't take for granted the steps that were taken to

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Speaker 1: get you where you are now. If you can imagine

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Speaker 1: trying to step from the bottom rung of ladder to

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Speaker 1: the very top rung of ladder without hitting any of

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Speaker 1: those steps in between, that's what happens if you just

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Speaker 1: go with a broadsword and cut out tradition. Interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: a friend of the program, he was talking about generation

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Speaker 1: talking about this particular generation of young people who attach

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Speaker 1: themselves to their electronics and their gizmos and their gadgets,

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Speaker 1: and they're texting, and they lose a good chunk of

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Speaker 1: their heritage speaking, their ability to use proper grammar, all

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Speaker 1: of these things because of the condensing properties of technology.

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Speaker 1: And by condensing, I mean that you don't need to

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Speaker 1: expand yourself in any way, shape or form. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to have contact. Think about all the different things,

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Speaker 1: the traditions that are removed from life because of the

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Speaker 1: convenience of technology. You don't have to talk to somebody

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Speaker 1: when you go to the bank, you can go to

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Speaker 1: the machine outside. You don't have to talk to somebody

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Speaker 1: when you fill up your tank because you can fill

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Speaker 1: it up right there at the gas pump, slide your card.

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Speaker 1: Even the greetings or communication that take place when you

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Speaker 1: go through a grocery store are limited because of electronics.

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Speaker 1: Have you swipe. And now in addition to that, they

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Speaker 1: have the little areas, the kiosks where you can check

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Speaker 1: yourself out here, here's here's a here's a station where

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Speaker 1: you don't have to talk to another living soul. But

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Speaker 1: those traditions were not just the lack of technology. They

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Speaker 1: were the importance built upon the importance of merchant ship

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Speaker 1: and interacting with one another and being citizens. And when

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Speaker 1: it comes to God, when it comes to scripture and

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Speaker 1: the things of God, the traditions that are passed down.

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Speaker 1: And I know that there's some of you that butt

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Speaker 1: heads with one another on the different traditions that there

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Speaker 1: that are out there, and some are good and some

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Speaker 1: are bad. Some can actually be like a millstone and

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Speaker 1: weight you down your faith because you forget that the

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Speaker 1: purpose of the tradition is to propel and to remind

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Speaker 1: you from where you came. But it should never supersede

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Speaker 1: or impede progress. My producer, Neil recalls a time when

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Speaker 1: he was in a church that had no musical instruments

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Speaker 1: that were amplified. He told me that he spoke with

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Speaker 1: the pastor of the church and he said, I noticed

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Speaker 1: that you didn't have any you know, any instruments that

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Speaker 1: were amplified, or any electric guitars or anything. And he said,

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Speaker 1: that's not how it was in the original church, so

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Speaker 1: I don't want it here at my church. So in effect,

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Speaker 1: he was saying, that is not the tradition. Therefore I

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Speaker 1: don't want that here. My producer tells me that he

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Speaker 1: looked at the pastor and replied, then why do you

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Speaker 1: use a microphone? You see, there are some traditions that

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Speaker 1: you may hold on to that may not have a purpose.

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Speaker 1: You think they might, but you hold on to them

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Speaker 1: for the mere fact that their tradition, and that is

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Speaker 1: of no benefit to anyone, and it certainly is not

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Speaker 1: a benefit to the church. If you're new to this program,

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Speaker 1: you must know one thing. The importance and the purpose

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Speaker 1: of this program is to propel and perpetuate the ideas

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Speaker 1: of Christianity. However, our desire is to do it in

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Speaker 1: a way that's different because the traditions don't always work.

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Speaker 1: The traditional way of doing things don't always compel, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes look archaic and get left behind. And that's not

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Speaker 1: to say that you take scissors to scripture and take

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Speaker 1: out what you don't like, or just say well that

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Speaker 1: was then, this is now. That's not what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: What I'm saying is understand the purpose of traditions. If

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Speaker 1: you remember it, and you can read this in Mark seven,

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Speaker 1: I was constantly being poked at, pradded tested by the

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Speaker 1: religious leaders of my day. Two thousand years ago. Everywhere

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Speaker 1: I went, somebody was trying to corner me, to get

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Speaker 1: me to make some statement, some contradictory statement, something that

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Speaker 1: would cause an uproar, either in the Roman community or

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Speaker 1: in the Jewish community. And a lot of the things

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Speaker 1: that were asked of me, and a lot of the

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Speaker 1: opportunities that were taken were really based on tradition. What

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Speaker 1: do you think of this tradition? What do you think

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Speaker 1: of that tradition? And in March seven you can read

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Speaker 1: in verse one that the Pharisees and also at the

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Speaker 1: time some of the scribes were coming together and they

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Speaker 1: were focused on me. As they started to gather around me,

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Speaker 1: they had some questions, as they are one to do.

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Speaker 1: And one of these questions and to deal with why

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Speaker 1: my disciples were eating their bread with impure hands. Now,

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Speaker 1: not to get totally into what impure hands deal with,

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Speaker 1: I mean, there was a ceremonial washing that would take

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Speaker 1: place with a handful of water, especially if you just

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Speaker 1: came from the marketplace, and that you might be mixing

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Speaker 1: with things unclean, maybe gentile things, money, utensils, any of

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Speaker 1: those things. The tradition was to wash your hands. Now,

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Speaker 1: our Jewish brothers and sisters. If you go back into

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Speaker 1: a lot of their ceremonial and traditional laws, you'll find

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Speaker 1: that they were way ahead of their time as far

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Speaker 1: as hygiene and intellectually being able to understand the importance

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Speaker 1: of cleanliness, separating where you eat versus where you give waste.

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Speaker 1: Very smart the Pharisees in this situation, however, we're not

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Speaker 1: seeing if you could imagine the balance and the importance

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Speaker 1: and the difference between the tradition of cleaning your hands

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Speaker 1: and the importance and necessity of eating. And sometimes, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: I find that to be the same in the Body

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Speaker 1: of Christ. You focus on these traditions, and sometimes you're

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Speaker 1: so focused on the tradition, so lost in those things

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Speaker 1: of old, that you can't move forward, that you'd rather

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Speaker 1: not eat at all and die spiritually because of the

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Speaker 1: tradition of the cleansing of the hands, and you don't

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Speaker 1: understand and weigh the importance and the balance between the two.

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Speaker 1: It should always propel you. Yes, having clean hands is

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Speaker 1: important when you eat, but not more important than eating.

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Speaker 1: Traditions do they add to the church, do they push

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Speaker 1: the church? Do they help grow the church? Or do

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Speaker 1: they hinder the church? Well, they answer to both of

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Speaker 1: those questions is yes, you have to to look. You

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Speaker 1: can't just give value to tradition because it's tradition. There's

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Speaker 1: many traditions that should be abolished or were okay for

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Speaker 1: a time because of some sort of contingency or something

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Speaker 1: that was going on and that has since changed. But

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Speaker 1: the traditions are there to show the process, that process

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Speaker 1: that took you from point A to point B, and

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Speaker 1: you should should give reverence to that process, but never

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Speaker 1: let it impede on the growth of the church. I

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Speaker 1: see so many stubborn church leaders that don't want to

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Speaker 1: reach out to the community or to the young people

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Speaker 1: because they it's like, that's not how we did it.

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Speaker 1: That's not how it was when I grew up. Well,

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Speaker 1: things change, Things change. I remember a Native American who

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Speaker 1: called the program, and maybe you remember as well. Some

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Speaker 1: years ago a sweet, sweet man called up and said

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Speaker 1: that that he wanted to seek out Christianity, that he

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Speaker 1: was curious, but that it went against the traditions of

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Speaker 1: his people. And I asked him how many rooms were

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Speaker 1: in his teepee, and he paused and replied, I don't

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Speaker 1: sleep in a teepee. And I said, why not. It

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Speaker 1: is a tradition. And you see the Native American people

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Speaker 1: slept in teepees because that was an efficient way then

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Speaker 1: not now culture the things the traditions. Culture and tradition

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Speaker 1: both come from the supply and demand, a need, a

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Speaker 1: scouting around the area, seeing what you have supply wise

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Speaker 1: to fill that need and filling that need. That's why

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Speaker 1: when you look at certain regional foods, they are based

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Speaker 1: on the supplies that they had. And now the tradition

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Speaker 1: is passed down and it's wonderful and say this is

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Speaker 1: what we cook. But as things change and import and

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Speaker 1: export and all of these things, so can culture change.

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Speaker 1: Culture is supposed to change, and so are traditions. Jesse,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Jesus. I love your show.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I appreciate that.

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Speaker 2: Jesus. I have a question. My father is a Catholic,

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Speaker 2: and whether it's the Jehovah witness and I know how

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Speaker 2: you kind of feel about the Jehovah witnesses. But with

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Speaker 2: that being said, I take my parents to church. My

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Speaker 2: mother's eighty three, my dad's eighty six, and so I

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Speaker 2: have to take them both every Sunday, which I don't mind.

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Speaker 2: But one day I was at the Jehovah Witness church

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Speaker 2: and the elder at the podium just all of a

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Speaker 2: sudden said, after you've finished with the sermon and whatever

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Speaker 2: he said, so and so is no longer Jehovah Witness.

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Speaker 2: And everybody was just like, what just happened? What's your

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Speaker 2: thought on the schellowshipping people?

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Speaker 1: Well, I certainly don't speak to the theology or the

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Speaker 1: structure of the Jovah's Witness belief system, and it is not

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Speaker 1: the belief system of this radio program or its producers,

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Speaker 1: so and not one that this program or its radio

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Speaker 1: producers would recommend. So having said that, they have their

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Speaker 1: own system in which they adhere to, in their own

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Speaker 1: system in which they teach, and they control the structure

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Speaker 1: of their church body, it doesn't mean that others don't.

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Speaker 1: Even Catholicism. You can be communicated from Catholicism, and there

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Speaker 1: are other church Protestants in nature that would ask somebody

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Speaker 1: to leave the church. It's contingent upon what the structure

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Speaker 1: and the rules of that particular church are and how

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Speaker 1: they feel to you know, execute them in the process

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Speaker 1: of teaching. So it's up to them. It's their world

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Speaker 1: and or their new world as the case maybe, but

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Speaker 1: it's their world and they can make their structure anyway

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Speaker 1: they wish. There is a time, and there is script

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Speaker 1: references when people were ostracized or allowed to go or

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Speaker 1: asked to go to get clarity in their life before

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Speaker 1: they come back and bring doubt or ugliness or bitterness

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Speaker 1: into the church. And I think it's although I may

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Speaker 1: not agree with the reasons they're doing it for or

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Speaker 1: the way they're doing it, I think sometimes there's wounds

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Speaker 1: that you mend and there's wounds that you amputate in life.

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Speaker 1: Otherwise if you don't amputate them, they make the whole

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Speaker 1: body sick. And I think that that you and I

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Speaker 1: may not agree with the reasons they did it, but

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Speaker 1: the premise is still a legitimate one, and that is

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Speaker 1: sometimes you have to protect the many from the one.

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Speaker 2: I understand. By the way, my mother loves your show too.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's nice to hear the show is.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he always listens to you every time I have

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Speaker 2: the wadi. What do you listening to Jesus In the

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Speaker 2: first she got upset Jesus. Oh yeah, Mom, is just

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Speaker 2: it's just it's just the radio station. The guy is

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Speaker 2: very knowledgeable, and she loves your show, and my dad

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Speaker 2: loves your show. And my mom said, ze Joe, see

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Speaker 2: this is what he says. Well, all right, thank you

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Speaker 2: Jesus for your question, I mean, for your answer.

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Speaker 1: My pleasure. I'm honored when anybody takes the time to listen.

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Speaker 1: But we're also very honest as to the point of

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Speaker 1: view and where we come from, so that people don't

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Speaker 1: get confused, and there is We try and focus on

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Speaker 1: the things that we agree on, then the things we

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Speaker 1: disagree on. But the truth of the matter is that

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Speaker 1: when someone is excommunicated from a church, the church has

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Speaker 1: that right based on whatever their structure is, as long

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Speaker 1: as everybody knows it going into it. Then they're signing

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Speaker 1: off on that saying Okay, I won't do that, or

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Speaker 1: I won't partake in those things, or I won't be

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Speaker 1: a part of that, or bring that into the church

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Speaker 1: or the Kingdom hall or whatever it is. And in

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Speaker 1: that agreement, you're allowing the church to discipline you in

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Speaker 1: the way they see fit, and that is okay. I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't always agree. There are many groups and churches that

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Speaker 1: excommunicate or kick people out for reasons I think are acidine,

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Speaker 1: but they go into it knowing that that's the I

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Speaker 1: see this in Catholicism A lot a lot of people

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Speaker 1: say I'm a Catholic, but I don't believe X, Y,

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Speaker 1: and Z, and it's like, well, that's not really fair,

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Speaker 1: because that's what Catholicism is. If you just don't want

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Speaker 1: to drop the name Catholicism because you're attached to it,

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Speaker 1: then you know, say I'm a social Catholic or something.

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Speaker 1: Use a modifier. Otherwise it's not fair to the church.

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Speaker 1: They are trying to keep a belief system alive, and

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Speaker 1: they're the ones that are allowed to make the rules.

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Speaker 1: And you can either be a part of it or

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Speaker 1: not be a part of it. But when you kind

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Speaker 1: of try and be a part of it and then

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Speaker 1: go by your own rules, the church organization has the

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Speaker 1: right to say bye, we don't want you involved with us. Greg,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show.

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Speaker 3: First of all, thank you very much for taking my call.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Oh my pleasure. How can I help?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I have a question, and I got a second

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Speaker 3: part of that question. First of all, I would like

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Speaker 3: to know who the Holy Ghost is. And is it

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Speaker 3: true that the Holy Ghost is the body, Jesus is

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Speaker 3: the heart, and the brain is God.

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Speaker 1: No, okay, that is at best. That is something called

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Speaker 1: an economic trinity. That's when somebody tries to make an

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Speaker 1: analogy for people to understand the Trinity in a way

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Speaker 1: that is in the physical realm or things like that,

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Speaker 1: and what happens is it breaks down because it's the

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Speaker 1: that's not the case. Now, it may help people understand, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is kind of the positioning and how

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Speaker 1: they work, but the reality is they're all equal. Now,

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Speaker 1: your heart, your body, and your mind are all equal

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Speaker 1: in the sense that you can't live with one or

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Speaker 1: the other. They all have to be tied to one another.

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Speaker 1: So there are parts of that analogy that might run

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Speaker 1: or have some legs to him, but ultimately, when you

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Speaker 1: start breaking it down, it doesn't make sense because the

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Speaker 1: positions being different doesn't mean that the substance is different.

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Speaker 1: So the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity,

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Speaker 1: and the Holy Spirit has very specific duties if you will,

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Speaker 1: and responsibilities and focus. But as far as being equal

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Speaker 1: with the Father and the Son, Scripture says absolutely Matthew

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen Sewo Corinthians thirteen fourteen. The Holy Spirit is

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Speaker 1: equal with the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit

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Speaker 1: was there at creation, the Holy Spirit was there at

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Speaker 1: every major event. It's not like, oh, well, the Holy Spirit,

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Speaker 1: we don't really need him right now. But the position,

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Speaker 1: the focus of the Holy Spirit is specific, just like

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Speaker 1: the Son, and just like the Father, have specific things,

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Speaker 1: things that are done. So the Holy Spirit gave Christians gifts,

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Speaker 1: whether prophecy, healing miracles. I said when I departed, the

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Speaker 1: Holy Spirit's going to come and dwell in every believer.

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Speaker 1: The Holy Spirit's referred to as the comforter or the helper.

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Speaker 1: And so the way some people describe it theologically, to

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Speaker 1: kind of wrap your mind around it, is the Holy

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Speaker 1: Spirit brings you to me, I bring you to the Father.

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Speaker 1: So there's that that process that moves you forward and

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Speaker 1: in position that essentially, the Holy Spirit is that experiential

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Speaker 1: side to your faith here on earth. But it's God

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Speaker 1: one percent. And even in that concept saying it's it's

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Speaker 1: a he, it'd be a he the same way you

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Speaker 1: would refer to me as a he or to the

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Speaker 1: Father as a he. Not because of gender but because

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Speaker 1: of the terms that are used in scripture, so it

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Speaker 1: is a person. It's the person of the Holy Spirit.

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Speaker 1: And people get confused because Father's son you can personify,

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Speaker 1: but Holy Spirit seems ambiguous and kind of ethereal and

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Speaker 1: floating and all of those things. But the Holy Spirit

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Speaker 1: is a personage, a person of the Trinity, the third

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Speaker 1: person of the Trinity, not the body.

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Speaker 3: It was never explained that way to me. I think

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Speaker 3: I'm understanding.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird that the Trinity is complicated in some

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Speaker 1: ways because it's not something it's not something that you

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Speaker 1: can put in a box the same way. And although

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Speaker 1: there are things you can look at on Earth that

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Speaker 1: point to the concept of a trinity or one thing

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Speaker 1: in three natures. There's something called the triple point of

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Speaker 1: water where at one point, in one moment, water is

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Speaker 1: solid liquid and in gas form, and there are there's

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Speaker 1: the concept of time. Time is one thing. It's time

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Speaker 1: in three yesterday, today, and tomorrow, or past, present and future.

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Speaker 1: You can't separate them. You can use a clock to

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Speaker 1: try and do that, or you can use the sun

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Speaker 1: rises and goes down, but really you're not separating time

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Speaker 1: because it's different to other people. And you could change

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Speaker 1: a clock, you put more hours on it if you

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Speaker 1: want to do, or you could do whatever you want.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't change time. Time is what it is. It's simultaneously

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Speaker 1: three and simultaneously one. But it doesn't mean that it's easy.

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Speaker 1: And for some reason though, it's one of the attributes

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Speaker 1: of God that everybody gets stuck on. Yet there are

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Speaker 1: all kinds of attributes of God that nobody understands, like

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Speaker 1: omnicience or omnipotence or any of the omni attributes being

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Speaker 1: everywhere at once knowing everything. You can't comprehend that either.

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Speaker 1: But it is what it is, and that's what separates God.

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Speaker 1: And in the case of the Holy Trinity, there is

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Speaker 1: something special in the Christian belief system because you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with one God in three persons, and in this case,

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Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit's role in the entire dance is to

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Speaker 1: woo and to comfort and to bring you into the

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Speaker 1: understanding of the Son, which is the bridge between the

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Speaker 1: sin of mankind, to bring them back to the Father.

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Speaker 1: But because the Father and the Son are such human analogs,

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Speaker 1: and you look back and you go, okay, that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: It's people put those into categories very simply, and then

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Speaker 1: when you get to the Holy Spirit, people over complicated

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Speaker 1: because well, what's the Holy Spirit. I know what a

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Speaker 1: father is and what a son is, but technically the

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Speaker 1: father is not a father the way you think a

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Speaker 1: father is, and the son is not a son the

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Speaker 1: way you think a son is, except in the physical

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Speaker 1: sense to marry. So I know it gets complicated and weird,

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Speaker 1: but it's not really something you'll ever truly understand. But

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Speaker 1: it's not something that should be put in a box

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Speaker 1: like that. Well, it's the body, and then the heart

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Speaker 1: is the sun, and the mind is God. That's sort

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Speaker 1: of just pointing at the positions and the things on

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Speaker 1: their to do list. I suppose that we have to

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Speaker 1: do every single day. We get a lot of questions here.

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Speaker 1: That's why we're here. We gather once a week to

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Speaker 1: not just look at the problems, but to look at solutions.

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Speaker 1: And when it comes to the concept of God and

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Speaker 1: who God is and the meaning and all those things,

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Speaker 1: they can be difficult at times, but I don't want

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Speaker 1: that to stop you from applying yourself to learn more.

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Speaker 1: Could you imagine if you had to understand every working,

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Speaker 1: every inner, working, every hose, every piston, every part of

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Speaker 1: the combustion engine. Before you started your car, there's a

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't get very far, would you? Some of you would,

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Speaker 1: but there's there's more two understanding things to that depth

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Speaker 1: rather than understanding how things are to be worked. So,

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Speaker 1: for instance, there's a difference to know how computers work

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Speaker 1: versus how to work a computer. And the beginning steps

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Speaker 1: really for your faith are to learn what God wants

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Speaker 1: from you and how that process works. As God continues

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Speaker 1: to shed a layer and a layer and a layer

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Speaker 1: of understanding progressively as you can take it.

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Speaker 2: KFI AM six forty on demand