1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: You want to be an American idiot? 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 2: Do you know how hard is to say? This is 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: one of the most bizarre stories we've ever seen in Cincinnati. 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: You know how hard that is in the city of ours. 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: Welcome to its Scott Sloan back on seven hundred w W, 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 2: the man beaten down twenty had beaten twenty eight times 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 2: last summer, who is also facing criminal charges, is supposed 8 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 2: to have his day in court today. That would be 9 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 2: Alex Tchravinsky, his trial charged with this early conduct after 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: what happened in July back on fourth and ALM. It's 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 2: been delayed and delayed and delayed again and after a 12 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 2: last minute continuance, but today allegedly is the day. Today 13 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: is the day he will be in court. And on 14 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: that his attorney, Steve Gooden on the show on seven 15 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: hundred WLW Steve, welcome, How are you no? 16 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: Good morning? Fantastic? 17 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 2: This is gonna happen today. I just feel like something 18 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: is They're gonna go. Well, we need more time, right 19 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: because last time in this really odd case, the prosecution's 20 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: key witness ail to appear. He said he or she said, 21 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 2: there's fear for safety there after misinformation Len and believe 22 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: he'd be identified as an FBI informant, and they got 23 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 2: a continuance on that, and I judge said, okay, this 24 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: is the last one. But how does misinformation the prosecution 25 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 2: failed to manage become grounds to delay a defendant who 26 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: was ready for trial. 27 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, look, this is probably the most litigated 28 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 3: misdemeanor disorderly conduct charge in American history, so nothing would 29 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 3: surprise me. But I do know you know this judge 30 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 3: a bit, and I think he's going to put his 31 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 3: foot down today and make the trial go forward. Also, 32 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 3: I would note it is a very rare instance in 33 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 3: which is going to be a jury trial for misdemeanor 34 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 3: disorderly conduct. It's kind of a rare instance where that's 35 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: even allowed. So I presumably the jury commissioner has brought 36 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 3: in perspective jurors, and I think that is typically a 37 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 3: factor for a judge when he grants a continuance, if 38 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 3: the jurors are really ready to go, doesn't want to 39 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 3: inconvenience them. So I would bet that today is finally 40 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 3: the day for the most litigated, disportless kind of strategy 41 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 3: perhaps in the history of the Republic. 42 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 2: We've had a lot of We've had a lot of 43 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: bizarre cases come through Cincinnat there's always some if something 44 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: bizarre is going on, there's always a tie to Cincinnati, 45 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 2: and often we have crazy stuff happening here. But this 46 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: is uh, this has got to be in the top 47 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 2: of that list, all right, So final continuance. But do 48 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 2: we even know where are they going to produce this, 49 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 2: this mystery witness and what happens the case if they don't, well, if. 50 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 3: They don't, I mean, they presumably have other witnesses. So 51 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:38,559 Speaker 3: I mean it's just really kind of a sad commentary 52 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 3: on the state of the city. Then of course, if 53 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 3: you have a street brawl in Cincinnati, there may be 54 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 3: may or may not be an FBI. And for him 55 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 3: at just standing around in the crowd, uh, you know, 56 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 3: whether he was an abortment or not. I think I 57 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 3: think they concluded he was not, but but some thought 58 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 3: he was, So I mean, you know even that that 59 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 3: adds another level of uh bizarreness and uh, you know, 60 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 3: complexity to the whole thing. But presumably they have other witnesses. 61 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: I mean, what they've got to show here is kind 62 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: of weird. So disorderly conduct in this case is defined 63 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 3: and I quote, by engaging in fighting or threatening harm, 64 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 3: by making unreasonable noises or using offensively coarse language or gestures. 65 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 3: And in order to get the more serious form of 66 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,399 Speaker 3: it that actually carries jail time, I mean, typically it's 67 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 3: just a payout ticket. 68 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: You have to show that there was persistent. 69 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 3: Conduct, you know, that way. So that's what they've got 70 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 3: a show. So they're going to need to put on 71 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 3: quite a few witnesses, and I'm assuming they're going to 72 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: try to authenticate and play this video. I guess there's 73 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: video from multiple different angles, security cameras, self owned stuff, 74 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 3: social media, things of that nature. So you know, certainly 75 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 3: they're going to be able to at least put on 76 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 3: a basic case with the video alone. Now that said, 77 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 3: his lawyers said he's going to argue self defense, you know, 78 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 3: because he says he has been he was struck at 79 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 3: least twenty eight times and allegedly had some cognitive issues 80 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: right afterwards. And I guess he did give some statements 81 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: to the police, but he's going to argue I think 82 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 3: that those statements were affected by being hit in the 83 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 3: head repeatedly. And also I'm assuming his lawyer is going 84 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 3: to go here if I were his lawyer, I'd be 85 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 3: going very heavily into the decision to charge mister Travinsky 86 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 3: because he is listed as a victim and witness in 87 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: multiple felony cases from the other individuals who struck he 88 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 3: and this lady known as Holly, who was knocked unconscious 89 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 3: and beaten very badly. So he is both a victim 90 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 3: and now a very and a witness and now a defendant. 91 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 3: And he's only charged many, many many months later. 92 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: After there have. 93 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 3: Been press conferences and so forth, and froth plague game 94 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 3: in lyunch and some leaders in the black community who 95 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 3: thought that he needed to be charged based upon seeing 96 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: the videos. So there is some stink on the case 97 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: from that point of view as to whether or not 98 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 3: he was escapegoated. So I think you've got a lot 99 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 3: for this jury to consider. I feel sorry for this 100 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 3: jury because they probably got him paneled. They're dead at 101 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 3: the courthouse thinking, my god, we may have a homicide 102 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 3: trial or some serious case involving a you know, a 103 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: large lawsuit. This is going to be fascinating, and instead 104 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 3: they're going to be dissecting a street brawl from different 105 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 3: different angles for three or four days. 106 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: So God bless them. 107 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 2: Ye've been there. The two detectives who spent literally one 108 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 2: hundreds of hours on game, they wouldn't sign the charges 109 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 2: against Alex Stravinsky. They were threatened, I guess with the motion, 110 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 2: and the captain, who, by the way, is now the 111 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 2: interim police chief, Adam Henny, signed it to protect his office. 112 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: What's that tell you about the strength of the case 113 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 2: when the investigators won't put their names on. 114 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 3: Well, you know, it's I mean, I think it's pretty 115 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 3: obvious it's not the best case in the world. I 116 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 3: mean that being said, you know, it is a jury trial, 117 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 3: so you know, anything can happen in a jury trial. 118 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 3: As we always say, it's not like you know, jurors 119 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,599 Speaker 3: can have a different view of what the community standard 120 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 3: should be for a case like this, So you just 121 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 3: you never know. And there is a question as to 122 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 3: how much the judge is going to let the attorneys 123 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 3: get into that kind of background about how it was charged, 124 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 3: and how much the jurors are going to know. Folks 125 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 3: like you and I are pretty plugged into this. The 126 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 3: average citizen in Hamilton County may not recall that level 127 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 3: of detail. And if the judge rules that are truly 128 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 3: not relevant to whether or not the crime was committed. 129 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 3: He may keep some of that information from the jurors, 130 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 3: so we don't know what they will actually know. But 131 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 3: if they hear that, it's going to really hurt the case. 132 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 3: And surely they're going to be allowed to know that 133 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 3: he was assaulted, that he got the worst of. 134 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: This and it's bad. Now. 135 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 3: Now, if I'm Alex Jrminsky's lawyer, the biggest thing I 136 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 3: would worry about is this. It's what I would call 137 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 3: the Victoria Parks factor. I mean, she did say she 138 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 3: was a former city council member who famously said that the. 139 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: Quote deserve to get be down. 140 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 3: There are people who may look at this and think, 141 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 3: you know, nobody here covered themselves and glory. 142 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: They were all out. 143 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 3: Drinking at two three in the morning in the middle 144 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: of this thing, and there are there was a school 145 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 3: thought that hey, you know, he was down there mixed 146 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 3: up in this in one way or another, and you know, 147 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 3: and a pox on all their houses and everyone's guilty 148 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: of something. I mean, there are people who would look 149 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: at it that way. So you know, again we're well 150 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 3: afield of the law. It's really hard to apply the 151 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 3: law and these kind of misdemeanor decisions because are kinds 152 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 3: of cases because you know, engaging and fighting. I mean, 153 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: it's you know, it's the language is both. It seems 154 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 3: very specific, but actually when you think about it, it's 155 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 3: very vague. It's the kind of thing that goes on 156 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 3: in these brawls all the time. Jury is going to 157 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 3: have a changefull well. 158 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: I think also it shows you that the echo chamber 159 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: is louder than the law in that this is exactly 160 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: like the Nicholas Sandman thing from twenty nineteen where this 161 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: young man from a cubcath is in DC on a 162 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: high school trip, confronts Nathan Phillips, the Native American man 163 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: who was protesting, and the initial reports were the he 164 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: had and this would be Nick Sandman, the student had 165 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: attacked and verbally attacked or looked down upon this Native 166 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: American man, and it turns out the opposite was true. 167 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 2: That he didn't walk up to him. The Native American 168 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: elder man walked up to him and he just had 169 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 2: like a staring contest, I guess, and was smiling at him. 170 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: But all those people who attacked Nick Sandman then didn't 171 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: retract what they said and said, hey, you know, at 172 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: first Blush it looked like he was the aggressor, and 173 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: it turns out the other man was the aggressor. No 174 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: one ever apologizes for these things. Same thing here is 175 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: that it looked like, initially from the citizen video from 176 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: the street videos, that it was Alex Stravinsky as the 177 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: guy who committed the assault, when it turns out he 178 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 2: was assaulted twenty eight times prior, including Holly. And the 179 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: end result is, well, you know, we had all these 180 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 2: people step up and say, hey, listen, you charge everybody 181 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 2: else weren't charging the white guy. And of course when 182 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: the truth came out from the state a different story, 183 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 2: no one apologized, and we've delayed this trial now forever. 184 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 2: And I think that's part of it as well, because 185 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: history makes your memory a little bit foggy, right, So 186 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: all those things aside this charge here that ale Stravinsky 187 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 2: was the aggressor, it turns out he was attacked. That's 188 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 2: even backed up by the state. The state's on timeline 189 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 2: shows that how does that charge survive the self defense argument? 190 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: Well, you know it likely won't. 191 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 3: I mean, I you know, my prediction is that the 192 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 3: most I think most people are going to go look 193 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 3: at this and think, look this, I didn't deserve to 194 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: be just assaulted the way he was, didn't deserve to 195 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 3: have his life turned upside down with these criminal charges. 196 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 3: I do predict that they'll find them not guilty. I mean, 197 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 3: you know, the the only issue that I think they're 198 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: going they're gonna pound on here is as the videos 199 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 3: I have seen. 200 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: Can I caution people all the time that. 201 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 3: These videos we see on Facebook and Twitter, you know, 202 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 3: are often you know, selectively posted, edited and and and 203 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 3: often don't have the full context of what happened. But 204 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 3: there is this issue of what they call, in quote 205 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 3: end quote, the slap. It does look as though that 206 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 3: after he was assaulted and walked away from the situation, 207 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 3: that he did re engage with one individual and. 208 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,359 Speaker 1: Slap that individual. 209 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 3: Now, whether that admits to some sort of quote persistent fighting, 210 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. Prosecutors that I know very well, as 211 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 3: well as some of the police officers who looked at it, 212 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 3: said look, you know, it's not a serious it's nothing, 213 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 3: you know, in the context of what happened. So I 214 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 3: know a lot of very smart and experienced people looked 215 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 3: at that particular part of the video and found it 216 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 3: to be not something that would rise to the level 217 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 3: of criminal conduct, particularly in the case of a guy 218 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 3: who was the victim of a serious assault, and a 219 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 3: felony level assault at that by a large crowd. So 220 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: but that I think you're going to hear a lot 221 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 3: of talk about this slap and where he looked as 222 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 3: though there was a brief moment where he was at 223 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 3: least in the clear and away from these individuals and 224 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 3: then sort of re engaged. I think that's ultimately what 225 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 3: they're going to have to hang their hat on for 226 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 3: the prosecution. It's not much, and I do think most 227 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 3: people are going to look at this fairly and say, 228 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 3: you know, there's nothing here, and that said, you know, 229 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 3: there may be other you know, the live witnesses are 230 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 3: going to provide different contexts. We don't know what he 231 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 3: was said between these individuals. There have been all kinds 232 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 3: of allegations and hints that racial slurs were being thrown around. 233 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 3: We don't know that for a fact. That may change 234 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,079 Speaker 3: kind of how some folks look at this. I mean, 235 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 3: there are there's an argument that that is exceptionally disorderly. 236 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 3: We do have this kind of concept of fighting words 237 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 3: in Ohio, but also It's very interesting. I do think 238 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 3: because of our new stand your ground laws. You know, 239 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 3: a lot of folks talk about those in the gun contexts, 240 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 3: but they also sort of apply here. He doesn't really 241 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 3: have a duty to retreat anymore. There used to be 242 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 3: this argument in Ohio law for self defense that if 243 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 3: you were under attack, you know, you did have some 244 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 3: sort of duty to retreat. You really don't have that anymore. 245 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 3: So I do think on balance, you know, he will 246 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 3: likely be found not guilty, but you know, again who knows, 247 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 3: and there may be evidence that we're not. 248 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean if he sound that guilty, it 249 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 2: just gives more credence. So that the people who got 250 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 2: this wrong from the initial had a big press conference 251 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 2: about it. We'll just say, well, it goes to show 252 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 2: you how racially biased the court system is, despite of course, 253 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: this case being heard by a jury of their peers 254 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: who will probably see the evidence. Ago Travinsky was the 255 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 2: victim here and not the assailant. He was struck twenty 256 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 2: eight times in the head and face concussion syndrome PTSD. 257 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: He owned a being in that fight and throwing the punch. 258 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: He's a victim in this case as well as a defendant. 259 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: How hard is that for the prosecutor to not violate 260 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 2: his constitutional rights. That's a pretty it seems to me 261 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 2: to be a pretty narrow window to negotiate this. 262 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: Well. 263 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, frankly, if the city loses this case. 264 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 3: And I think that's one of the things that's important 265 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 3: to note here that there are two different prosecutor's offices 266 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: inning able to count because they handle the county prosecutor's 267 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 3: office that handles all felonies and some misdemeanors and surrounding areas. 268 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 3: The city still has its own small prosecutor's office that 269 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 3: only handles misdemeanors within the city limits, and they're the 270 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,559 Speaker 3: ones bringing this case. But the other prosecutor's office, Hamilicuty 271 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 3: prosecutor's office, are prosecuting all the other folks involved in 272 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 3: this fight because they're charged with felonies. So there is 273 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 3: some some real tension there. It's like, you know, the 274 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 3: city is prosecuting one of the key witnesses in the 275 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 3: counties cases. 276 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: So that's a that's a problem number one. 277 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 3: Number two, I would predict that if he is acquitted 278 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 3: by this jury, that he probably already has counsel lined 279 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 3: up to look at a potential malicious malicious prosecution lawsuit 280 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 3: into or a civil rights claim. 281 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: Uh, you know, basically saying, look. 282 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 3: I was prosecuted for political reasons. I really didn't have 283 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 3: a good faith basis to bring this and the city 284 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 3: may be in a position to pay out yet another 285 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 3: multi let about settlement as will impact it's it's a 286 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 3: budget even Fritter, So is that stated? 287 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: Is that the next is that after this gets I 288 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: don't know if I'll get dismissed, but after this thing 289 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: wraps up, and I think the prediction is pretty good 290 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 2: that Alex Stravinsky's going to walk, and let's say that 291 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 2: he does. He then turns around to a malicious prosecution 292 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: case as a civil case against the city and civil 293 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: claim outside of settlement. Though that's pretty ugly. Does that 294 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 2: implicate the mayor to some degree or at least the administration, 295 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 2: because typically the mayor will isolate himself and insult himself 296 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:16,119 Speaker 2: rather with the people like sure along and other underlings 297 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 2: that'll take the bullet for him, so to speak. But 298 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 2: does that turn around to be problematic from a civil 299 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: rights violation for the mayor of the City of Cincinnati, going, Hey, 300 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: if it's proven that we were able to influence the 301 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 2: arrest and prosecution of Alex Stravinsky, then of course that's 302 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 2: a civil rights violation there. That's a pretty serious charge 303 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: against officers of the City of Cincinnati, the mayor notwithstanding. 304 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you're absolutely right. 305 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to try to walk a fine line here 306 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 3: because I'm trying to be your legal analyst and not 307 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 3: a standing critic of the mayor, which i am. This 308 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: is the part where it gets really fun. If there's 309 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 3: a malicious prosecution claim and it survives the early stages, 310 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 3: they will have the ability to subpoene the documents and 311 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 3: take demand documents, pull documents out of the city, and 312 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 3: they'll have the ability to take depositions. And if, as 313 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 3: one presumes, the city manager and or the mayor were 314 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 3: involved in any way shape or forming the decision to 315 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 3: charge Alex Tremensky, that's going to come out and that 316 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 3: is inappropriate, I mean by any standard. I mean, they're 317 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 3: not supposed to be under our charter form of government. 318 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 3: You know, the police officers are supposed to be able 319 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 3: to work independently and without political pressure. And if he 320 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 3: can show that political pressure, that is a real problem. 321 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 3: Not just in terms of civil liability and monetary damages. 322 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 3: That's a real problem politically, and it's a real sign 323 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 3: of just how things may have very well, really broken 324 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: down by this. And you know, it sometimes can be 325 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 3: a very minor thing like a misdemeanor, this misdemeanor charge. 326 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: You know, there are over I think. 327 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 3: Ten to fifteen thousand misdemeanors filed every year, you know, 328 00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 3: in Hamilton County. But one of these, this little thing, 329 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 3: this little time charge, it typically doesn't carry jail time, 330 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 3: could have huge ramifications down the road if it leads 331 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 3: to a lawsuit that Chols there was political involvement in 332 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 3: this decision to charge him, which common sense seems to 333 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 3: indicate had to be the fact case, because it's very 334 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 3: rare for a case like this to be charged many 335 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: months after the fact. 336 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 2: He is attorney Steve Gooden and a former consulman. Thanks 337 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: for jumping on the show this morning. I think the 338 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 2: short rate here is it probably should this should end 339 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 2: rather quickly. But then it gets really interesting if Alex 340 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 2: Schravinsky is axonerator will find out what happens. But the 341 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 2: trial is set for today. Get some popcorn, baby, Steve, 342 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 2: all the best. 343 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: Thanks again, take care shot. Thanks all right. 344 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: News update here seconds away on the Big One seven 345 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: hundred WLW. I'll get the very latest then we'll return 346 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: here on the show, we jump right in here. This 347 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: is interesting. There's a case now that is coming out 348 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: against Sephora and Benefit. They're cosmetic companies, and that they 349 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: are deliberately to This is on the heels of the metaverdict, 350 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: by the way, targeting children under the age of ten 351 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: to get them to buy makeup. Kids under ten are 352 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 2: now girls under ten are now using makeup makeup and 353 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: the courts are trying to shut this down. We'll get 354 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 2: into that next on the show seven hundred WLW.