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Speaker 1: Tony Pike sincey three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored

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Speaker 1: in part by Cincy Shirts. Cincy Shirts all since y

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Speaker 1: all Day. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 2: Good afternoon, welcome back our number two thanks to Cincy Shirts.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for listening on the Home of the Bengals,

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Speaker 2: ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Let's get right to it.

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Speaker 2: Tuesday's one o'clock from Fox nineteen. Joe Danaman joining us

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Speaker 2: right now.

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Speaker 3: What's up, Joey d Tony.

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Speaker 4: P and Audi E. Happy Mary Early, Chris in New Year.

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Speaker 4: Excited for the holiday season.

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Speaker 2: Guys, I can't wait for the holiday season. I'm glad

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Speaker 2: it's here. I do have to ask you, Joe, outside

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Speaker 2: of anything Bengal related, what was your take on John

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Speaker 2: Cena's final match?

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Speaker 4: So Austin just asked me this question, and I'll give

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Speaker 4: it to you in a two part answer. I haven't

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Speaker 4: yet seen it, Gracey. You can't see me, and I'm

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Speaker 4: not the world's biggest John Cena fan. I understand whose impact,

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Speaker 4: but John Cena I can take or leave it, So

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Speaker 4: I'll see it. Haven't seen it yet, but I am

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Speaker 4: looking forward to seeing it because I understand his impact

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Speaker 4: in the wrestling game, so it's a musty.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's talk about impact. That's the the impact that

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Speaker 2: Joe Burrow has on the Cincinnati Bengals. It was just

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Speaker 2: an odd week Joe, from Wednesday's press conference to the

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Speaker 2: way in which Joe played to hearing Jamar Chase talk

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Speaker 2: about Joe after the game. Are you at all concerned

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Speaker 2: about number nine right now, whether it's on the field,

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Speaker 2: off the field physically, mentally, what's your level of concern

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Speaker 2: for Joe Burrow.

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Speaker 4: I'm not concerned for Joe Burrow because I believe in

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Speaker 4: what he's made of and I think he'll get out

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Speaker 4: of whatever rut he's in. I think what you said

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Speaker 4: about Jamar talking about it was important because we talk

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Speaker 4: so much about a quarterbacks having to elevate everybody around him.

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Speaker 4: There's a feeling now inside that locker room act or

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Speaker 4: what Joe talked about and the way he played on

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Speaker 4: Sunday that some of the guys who have been through

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Speaker 4: this with him, and you know, you look at the numbers,

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Speaker 4: there aren't a lot of guys anymore who have gone

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Speaker 4: through the twenty one and twenty two years and are

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Speaker 4: still around with the Bengals. I think, what eighty percent

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Speaker 4: of the roster has never played in a playoff game.

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Speaker 4: But the guys that have been around here need to

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Speaker 4: uplift him now. And I think that's Jamar, I think

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Speaker 4: that's te I think that's some key members of the

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Speaker 4: coaching staff who can get him out of whatever emotional

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Speaker 4: rut he's in because how he sounded on Wednesday is

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Speaker 4: how he played on Sunday, and we don't expect that

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Speaker 4: from him. He gets a pass, he's earned a pass

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Speaker 4: for a week. I expect him to bounce back with

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Speaker 4: a different kind of energy week the Bengals needed, the

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Speaker 4: team needs, that, the organization does. But I think that's

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Speaker 4: going to start with Jamar Chase and if t Higgins

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Speaker 4: can get out of concussion protocol, I think it starts

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Speaker 4: with those two guys as well, rallying around him performing

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Speaker 4: at a really high level on Sunday in Miami and

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Speaker 4: helping Joe Burrow get past whatever's bothering him.

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Speaker 2: Outside of Joe Burrow's play, it felt like Jamar Chase

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Speaker 2: was a tick off on Sunday. It felt like the

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Speaker 2: offensive line didn't protect in a way that we've seen

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Speaker 2: them play over the last couple of weeks. Where do

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Speaker 2: you point to when looking back on Sunday, do you

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Speaker 2: say just one of those games that you throw away

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Speaker 2: the tape and you move on from, or where do

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Speaker 2: you feel like is the deeper rooted issue with what

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Speaker 2: we saw from this offense Sunday.

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Speaker 4: The hardest thing you can do is to point an

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Speaker 4: accusatory finger at a player's effort level, because these guys

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Speaker 4: will tell you we get it. The NFL is a

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Speaker 4: wins business, the bottom line business of winning games. But

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Speaker 4: this is fundamental to what they are and who they

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Speaker 4: are as professional athletes, is showing up and performing at

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Speaker 4: their highest level no matter what the circumstance is. You know,

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Speaker 4: guys will always tell you it's on film. Guys will

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Speaker 4: always tell you they're competing for jobs. And those two

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Speaker 4: things are accurate and correct. But this is the ultimate

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Speaker 4: test of professionalism for this group here the next three weeks,

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Speaker 4: because the situation here at Cincinnati is more unique than

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Speaker 4: other teams who are playing out the string, because I'm

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Speaker 4: not sure many other cities where teams right now who

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Speaker 4: have been eliminated from the playoffs, and just pick your

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Speaker 4: Cleveland Browns or Las Vegas Raiders came into the season

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Speaker 4: of the expectation that the Bengals have had, and an

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Speaker 4: expectation that considers the weight of two straight years not

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Speaker 4: making the playoffs and everyone's circling this year and saying, Okay,

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Speaker 4: they better do this or else. Well, we're here now.

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Speaker 4: The question is what is or else? And we don't

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Speaker 4: know that answer, And certainly what Paul Daanner Junior wrote

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Speaker 4: today maybe shed some light on that answer what we're

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Speaker 4: going to see here in the upcoming offseason. But it's

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Speaker 4: hard to sit here over the phone talking to you

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Speaker 4: and you're a professional, former professional football player in point

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Speaker 4: of figure at a guy's effort. But I can tell

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Speaker 4: you that's what it looked like on Sunday. That's what

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Speaker 4: it felt like, and sometimes that can be just as

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Speaker 4: damning if you do or you don't. Is just what

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Speaker 4: the perception is. It felt like the mood and the

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Speaker 4: tone of the building was set on Wednesday, and they

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Speaker 4: played like that on Sunday. Now, can they dig themselves

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Speaker 4: out of this the next three weeks and pass that

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Speaker 4: test of professionalism? They know the spotlights on them, they

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Speaker 4: know people are now watching for it. The question is

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Speaker 4: will they perform better than they did on Sunday. They

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Speaker 4: can't perform worse, They're certainly that, but we just want

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Speaker 4: to see at this point this team be about the

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Speaker 4: right stuff, react in the right way, and finish this

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Speaker 4: season out the correct way. As of now, we know

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Speaker 4: Joe's playing this week and the final three weeks. That

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Speaker 4: could change, we'll see, but if he's going to play,

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Speaker 4: the standard shouldn't change, and the standard is much higher

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Speaker 4: than what we saw against the Raiders.

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Speaker 2: So does that, in your opinion, that outweigh any conversation

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Speaker 2: of sitting guys or making decisions on who to player,

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Speaker 2: who not to play. I know you can't go into

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Speaker 2: a game and tank outwardly, but you look at the

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Speaker 2: holes that this team has going forward and trying to

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Speaker 2: get back to what's most important to Joe Burrow, which

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Speaker 2: is the super Bowl window. You're I guess a higher

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Speaker 2: likelihood to get there if you can get better players

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Speaker 2: in the draft. Do you at all listen to the

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Speaker 2: other side of it, of there is a point to

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Speaker 2: resting guys or making decisions on some guys down the

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Speaker 2: stretch in order to get a higher draft pick.

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Speaker 4: I think it's very nuanced. I think it's a hard

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Speaker 4: balancing act, and I think it's a case by case

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Speaker 4: basis for each individual player. And I guess we'll start

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Speaker 4: with Joe because that's going to be the most talked

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Speaker 4: about one here the rest of this week and then

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Speaker 4: going forward the final couple of weeks. I believe the

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Speaker 4: organization listens to Joe. We we all know that. But

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Speaker 4: I also think the organization can't always just give Joe

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Speaker 4: what he wants. It's kind of a blank check thought

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Speaker 4: that if Joe wants to play, Joe's going to play.

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Speaker 4: I think it needs to be discussed and talked about

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Speaker 4: and strategized on a multi level level, and that that

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Speaker 4: being coaches, front office, ownership, everybody has to be involved

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Speaker 4: in this. I do believe fundamentally at my core that

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Speaker 4: if a guy like Joe Burrow is paid the way

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Speaker 4: he's played, if you're paid to do something and you're

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Speaker 4: able to do it, you've got to show up and

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Speaker 4: do it. That's just part of life. You know, you

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Speaker 4: get paid a lot of money do the work. But

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Speaker 4: it's more nuanced than that. We get it. But I

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Speaker 4: also think it goes back to Joe in his happiness

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Speaker 4: Joe's saying that he needs to be happy doing this.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure Joe's going to be happy sitting on

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Speaker 4: the bench the final three weeks watching his team play football.

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Speaker 4: He worked so hard to get back, and maybe the

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Speaker 4: motivation was to get back in time to help this

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Speaker 4: team make the kind of run they made last year.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it was just to get back because he misses

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Speaker 4: the game and loves playing. And if he misses the

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Speaker 4: game and loves playing, and that's what he always says,

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Speaker 4: I think you have to let the guy play. Considering

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Speaker 4: what he talked about last week, I mean, it would

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Speaker 4: not be good for Joe's mental health to be sitting

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Speaker 4: on the bench and watching this if that's what he

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Speaker 4: truly wants is to play football. There are case by

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Speaker 4: case basis throughout the organization. Maybe the t Higgins conversation

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Speaker 4: has had where he's had the bad concussion he had

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Speaker 4: in the home game and then went to Bolton to

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Speaker 4: Buffalo and was dinged up a couple of times and

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Speaker 4: missed the Baltimore games. Maybe there's a conversation about him

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Speaker 4: shutting it down for the rest of the year. But

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Speaker 4: as of goes with Joe Burrow, I think they need

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Speaker 4: to let him play, or least for now, have the

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Speaker 4: plan to let him play. Considering where he was last

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Speaker 4: week and considering how hard he worked to get back,

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Speaker 4: I believe he pulled the rug out from underneath him.

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Speaker 4: It wouldn't do him good and mentally. So if he

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Speaker 4: wants to play, I think he should play, and I

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Speaker 4: think he should. I think he should play because of

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Speaker 4: how he's paid and and and that that's part of

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Speaker 4: his job and he has to perform on Sundays and

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Speaker 4: if he's able, he should go. So I'm in agreement

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Speaker 4: they should play him, guys, but that should change the week,

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Speaker 4: should team if if it continues looking like he did

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Speaker 4: on Sunday.

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Speaker 5: Joe, you sit down with Zach Taylor every week, and

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Speaker 5: yesterday he said that he has a brick wall all

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Speaker 5: the way around him that kind of shields him from

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Speaker 5: the criticism. He doesn't see it, he doesn't hear it,

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Speaker 5: he doesn't pay attention to it.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 5: Do you believe that when when he says he doesn't

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Speaker 5: hear the outside noise.

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Speaker 4: I do believe it. I don't know necessarily if that's

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Speaker 4: healthy to not have a feeling of what's going on,

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Speaker 4: but I do know Zak has a pulse of what's said,

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Speaker 4: what's being written about him and about the team. He

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Speaker 4: will famously tell you that he quote doesn't have the

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Speaker 4: Internet on his phone, that he just makes uses it

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Speaker 4: for calling and for texting and to get done when

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Speaker 4: he has to get done. But yeah, he doesn't go

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Speaker 4: on his phone and scroll and look through things. That

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Speaker 4: That one is something he'll say publicly, and I believe

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Speaker 4: it to be true. I haven't looked at the man's phone,

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Speaker 4: but he'll often say that. But he's certainly very aware

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Speaker 4: of what's said about him. He hears things on the field.

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Speaker 4: How could you not hear something coming from the crowd.

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Speaker 4: But I do believe it's probably one of those things

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Speaker 4: that you have to have a healthy balance UF, just

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Speaker 4: like we talked about with Burrow. The last question was,

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Speaker 4: you know, trying to tinker and look at things for

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty six and maybe sitting some players but also

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Speaker 4: put other players, maybe like a Shamar Stewart. You push

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Speaker 4: him to get back on the field the final two

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Speaker 4: weeks to have a better idea of what he's about.

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Speaker 4: You keep pushing the rookies to see more of what

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Speaker 4: they can and can't do with Zach Taylor, it's you've

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Speaker 4: got to isolate yourself otherwise it will drive you absolutely crazy. Uh,

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Speaker 4: the criticism. You guys work as well in the public light,

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Speaker 4: and you know when when you share thoughts or opinions

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Speaker 4: or whether it's on Twitter or on the show, and

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Speaker 4: you're going to get backlash and you see it, and

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Speaker 4: how can it not bother you? Sometimes when you do

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Speaker 4: see it. We're all human beings. So I think it's

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Speaker 4: important for Zach to kind of have that, as he

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Speaker 4: called it, a brick wall up to keep him insulated

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Speaker 4: from everything that happens. I know there are things that

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Speaker 4: bother him if people and he lives a public life.

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Speaker 4: He has children, he has a wife that his has

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Speaker 4: sporting events, and it can bother him when people come

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Speaker 4: after his family at those kinds of events. But for

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Speaker 4: him to be able to isolate and insulate himself from

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Speaker 4: all that stuff, I think that's really the only thing

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Speaker 4: you can do as a football coach during times like this.

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Speaker 4: And that's part of hazard pay that that's part of

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Speaker 4: why you get paid as much as you get paid,

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Speaker 4: is that you're going to live this public life and

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Speaker 4: you're going to be criticized and people are going to

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Speaker 4: come at you and say things, and that's part of it.

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Speaker 4: He gets that, So I think it's important for him

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Speaker 4: to understand the voice of the fan base, but also

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Speaker 4: at the same time to properly do his job and

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Speaker 4: not be distracted. He probably has to put up that

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Speaker 4: quote unquote isolated brickwall to keep him away from what's

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Speaker 4: being said.

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Speaker 5: So, based off of what Paul Dayner Junior wrote today,

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Speaker 5: it's more probable than not that Zach is going to

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Speaker 5: be the head coach of the Bengals in twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 5: If we assume that that's going to be the case,

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Speaker 5: how do they fix what went wrong this year?

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Speaker 3: What is the first step.

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Speaker 4: They've got to nail it? In free agency and obviously

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Speaker 4: the big decision that will be made on Trey Henderson

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Speaker 4: And I don't know. It kind of feels like Trey

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Speaker 4: poisoned the waters enough that the Bengals wouldn't even bother it.

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Speaker 4: But you could franchise tag that and have the control

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Speaker 4: of that asset again this coming off season with Zach Taylor.

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Speaker 4: And I want to make one point about this too,

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Speaker 4: is you know, you know, we talked so much about

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Speaker 4: it being a bottom line business in a wink business,

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Speaker 4: and it hasn't been good enough. And Zak will tell

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Speaker 4: you it hasn't been good enough. And this isn't going

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Speaker 4: to be me going on a tangent to carry Zach

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Speaker 4: Taylor's water. It's more or less an understanding of his

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Speaker 4: place in the organization and why the Browns and the

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Speaker 4: front office would want him to come back for another season,

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Speaker 4: given that he now has two years on his contract,

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Speaker 4: and that was new information to me from Paul Dayner

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Speaker 4: Junior in his article today. But he's the voice of

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Speaker 4: the organization and it's such a unique space in Cincinnati

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Speaker 4: for the head coach and his responsibility to answer questions.

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Speaker 4: He was taking questions yesterday about the lack of snow

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Speaker 4: removal inside the stadium. I mean, the Brown family is

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Speaker 4: comfortable with him being the voice. And if they're comfortable

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Speaker 4: with that, that's a reason. That's the checkpoint. That's the

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Speaker 4: check mark for why Zach Taylor will keep his job.

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Speaker 4: If he ultimately keeps his job, the other would be

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Speaker 4: we would go back to maybe Joe Burrow shouldn't always

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Speaker 4: get his way, but his relationship with Zak Taylor is

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Speaker 4: going to carry a lot of weight. He loves playing

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Speaker 4: for Zak, he loves Zach's scheme, and he's publicly multiple

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Speaker 4: times stumped for his head coach. So again another thing

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Speaker 4: that's going to carry weight for Zach Taylor's future. But

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Speaker 4: if you're talking about them not making major changes, and

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Speaker 4: if we were betting people, I think we would all

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Speaker 4: bet right now that Zach Taylor and Duke Tobin are

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Speaker 4: back on their seeing spots in this offseason and going

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Speaker 4: towards next year. This isn't good enough, they'll tell you that,

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Speaker 4: but just that's lip service. It's time for change. It's

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Speaker 4: time for something to change. You know. You look at

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Speaker 4: the Chicago Bears and the change they made in their

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Speaker 4: voice at coach and boom overnight, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 4: they're a completely different team. And if that's not going

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Speaker 4: to change, the Bengals have to hit in free agency.

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Speaker 4: It can't be just try to draft and develop and

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Speaker 4: see if we can put together a defense with young players,

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Speaker 4: and then you go through this cycle again of young

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Speaker 4: players trying to figure it out next year and you

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Speaker 4: waste another season and all of a sudden, Joe Burrow

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Speaker 4: is thirty years old. So I think they have to

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Speaker 4: nail it. They have to be aggressive in free agency.

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Speaker 4: That is the only way for me to see this

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Speaker 4: team get out of the rut they're in right now.

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Speaker 4: The defense has to go from I don't want to

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Speaker 4: do another offseason of just get to league average. That

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Speaker 4: is so tired in Cincinnati because I don't think league

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Speaker 4: average is going to win a Super And if you're

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Speaker 4: not playing for Super Bowls, what are you playing for?

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Speaker 4: And so they have to nail it in free agency.

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Speaker 4: The first big decision will be what to do with

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Speaker 4: Trey Henderson in that asset. And they have the money,

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Speaker 4: they can do it. It's time to make some splashes

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Speaker 4: and maybe go back to the twenty twenty one model

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Speaker 4: and build this thing through free agency, even though they

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Speaker 4: don't have the kind of flexibility they had then because

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Speaker 4: of Joe.

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Speaker 2: Jamo's contracts on the defensive side of the ball, Joe,

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Speaker 2: you know, Austin mentioned earlier coming out of the bye week,

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Speaker 2: outside of you know, the finish in Buffalo, have you

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Speaker 2: seen both defensive scheme changes and individual player development that

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Speaker 2: do give you some hope and promise for some players

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Speaker 2: on that side of the ball.

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Speaker 4: You can't see me now but I'm kind of shrugging like, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 4: but yeah sure. There's been some individual improvement. Certainly, I

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Speaker 4: think the Bengals can now rely on Miles Murphy in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty six as a contributor. I think they can

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Speaker 4: now look at DJ Turner as their cornerback one. I

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Speaker 4: think they can look at Joseph o'sai and say, Okay,

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Speaker 4: maybe we consider bringing him back in twenty twenty six

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Speaker 4: as an edge contributor. I think they've seen finally some

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Speaker 4: flashes from Demetrius Knight, some playmaking to sack Lamar Jackson

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Speaker 4: twice to get the interception on Banksgiving Night. They talk

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Speaker 4: often about Brett Carter now settling down in the pre

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Speaker 4: snap and having a better understanding of where to be,

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Speaker 4: what to do. I don't know if it's really translated

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Speaker 4: in him to playing great football, but those are individuals

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Speaker 4: who have shown things, and then also the individuals who

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Speaker 4: have shown they can't do it. That the Geno stones

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Speaker 4: of the world. And now we have more information on

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Speaker 4: Cam Taylor Britt and they understand that they need help

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Speaker 4: in the middle on the defensive line. So to me,

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Speaker 4: it's just as much about seeing individuals who are ascending

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Speaker 4: as much as it is seeing individuals who have descended

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Speaker 4: into shouldn't be back in two thousand in twenty six

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Speaker 4: and allowing some of those guys to play a full season,

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Speaker 4: you get a better read on what you have and

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Speaker 4: what you don't have, And sometimes what you don't have

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Speaker 4: is just as important because then you know what you

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Speaker 4: have to address in the upcoming offseason.

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Speaker 2: What do we have to address right now is what's

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Speaker 2: coming up for Fox nineteen. What do you got coming

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Speaker 2: up this week? Joe, last full week before the holidays

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Speaker 2: are here? Next week?

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Speaker 3: What do you got man?

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Speaker 4: So we're gonna run it back Wednesday night. Tomorrow night.

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Speaker 4: We're giving Miles Murphy a second shot. Miles had a

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Speaker 4: pipe burst last week, a couple of hours before the show,

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Speaker 4: so we had to cancel mad Joel, you can't drink drin.

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Speaker 4: Jeremy Row and I were sitting on stage trying to

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Speaker 4: entertain a poor crowd for an hour when Miles couldn't

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Speaker 4: make it. So Miles Murphy and then Jordan Battle Guys.

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Speaker 4: Battle predicted midweek he was going to intercept Lamar Jackson

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Speaker 4: in the second quarter, and he intercepted Lamar Jackson in

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Speaker 4: the second quarter. It's one of those fun storylines that

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Speaker 4: you really can't talk about when the Bengals get shut out.

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Speaker 4: So we'll talk about it tomorrow night the Big Bengals Party.

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Speaker 4: Bengals Now live at Newport on the Levee at six o'clock.

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Speaker 4: It is free, it is warm, get a chance to

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Speaker 4: get some pictures and some autographs, and we do some

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Speaker 4: fun storytelling with a couple of Cincinnati Bengals.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, awesome stuff. Any holiday plans for you next week?

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Speaker 4: I'm taking some time off work, guys, So.

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Speaker 2: Man, nice, yeah, say again, You're taking the family down

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Speaker 2: to Memphis.

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Speaker 3: Say again, Joe, what did you ask for for Christmas? Anything?

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Speaker 4: No, I did not ask for anything. I was gonna

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Speaker 4: ask you, guys, if this is a good presence I have,

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Speaker 4: say again, I have three children, three boys who love

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Speaker 4: the Cincinnati Bengals. Is getting them tickets to the Bengals

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Speaker 4: and Cardinals a good gift?

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Speaker 3: If Joe Burrow is playing? Yes, yes, I would say so, Okay, okay.

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Speaker 4: I was wondering about making them sit outside in the

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Speaker 4: cold fourteen. It's not going to the playoffs, but two

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Speaker 4: of them have never been.

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Speaker 5: Oh wow, Well, they can't bring cardboard. Make sure they

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Speaker 5: know that hopefully doesn't snow before that thing. Now, I

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Speaker 5: couldn't believe it when we we were denied at the Interests.

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Speaker 4: It was like, really, i'mbelievable to put under your feet

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Speaker 4: right to keep? Yeah, yeah, wow tough. That's a bad beat, Audie.

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Speaker 3: Bad beat.

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Speaker 4: Hmmm.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a great gift, Dan. And if that

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Speaker 2: doesn't work, we got a couple of bobbleheads for you.

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Speaker 2: It's better to Gino Stone Jersey, that's for sure.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah right, that'll last about what three more weeks.

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Speaker 2: Joe Daniman and family walking in Memphis for New Year's Day.

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Speaker 3: Again, day again, for the best.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Joe, I have a great one. That's Joe Danaman

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Speaker 2: Fox nineteen. Always kind enough to join us on Tuesday afternoons.

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Speaker 2: Your talkbacks come next. ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Alexa,