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Speaker 1: The Mark Simon Show on r Well and Culter, the

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Speaker 1: best selling author, the great columnist. You can make sure

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Speaker 1: you follow her on Twitter. Great stuff on Twitter, but

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Speaker 1: even better her substack where she does columns and podcasts

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Speaker 1: and interviews, videos, all sorts of stuff. Go to and

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Speaker 1: Culture dot substack dot com and culture.

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Speaker 2: How you doing fantastic? How are you Mark Simone?

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Speaker 1: I'm good. Now. We have a visitor in the studio today.

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Speaker 1: Every year, well every year we do this big charity

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Speaker 1: auction for hunger, and one of the prizes is for

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, you get to come sit in

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Speaker 1: the studio. And the winner this year is er Erv Goldfarb.

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Speaker 1: And he's the first guy to actually bid and win

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Speaker 1: this thing twice. He did a few years ago and

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Speaker 1: he talked to you back then. He wants to talk

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Speaker 1: to you again.

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Speaker 2: Oh good for HERV. I hope this charity isn't run

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Speaker 2: by the somalis.

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Speaker 1: No, it's a real one. But he has a substack too, right.

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Speaker 3: I just I started up my blog onto substack a

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Speaker 3: few months ago. Based on your success, I decided to

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Speaker 3: do the same thing.

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Speaker 2: Oh excellent, doesn't substack fun, no no ads, no censorship.

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Speaker 3: I really like plus people try to help each other.

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Speaker 3: Like if you don't have a lot of subscriptions, they're like,

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Speaker 3: well send me your substack and I'll send you mind people.

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Speaker 3: Kind of it's like a community. I like it.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I don't like that part.

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Speaker 3: It gets readers. And I had a question for you,

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Speaker 3: if it's okay. I don't want to take too much time,

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Speaker 3: but I've been thinking about this. You do say surprising

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Speaker 3: stuff once in a while that that makes the left

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Speaker 3: very angry. It makes me think, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: times when I think about it, I'm like, you know

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Speaker 3: what she was right about that you inferred you. I

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Speaker 3: think a lot about it. You inferred I think on

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Speaker 3: the show a few years ago that Joseph McCarthy was

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Speaker 3: misunderstood and gets a bad rap. And I'm having a

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Speaker 3: little trouble wrapping my mind around that.

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Speaker 1: Can you explain that.

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Speaker 3: A little bit?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I am so glad you asked. More than that.

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Speaker 2: It is laid out in in I would say, verb

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Speaker 2: and detail an exciting story in my book Treason. Uh,

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Speaker 2: it's a good couple of chapters that The argument of

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Speaker 2: my book Treason is that liberals have consistently rooted for

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Speaker 2: our country's enemies basically since the McCarthy era, and I

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Speaker 2: had just you know, my first book was High Crimes

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Speaker 2: and Misdemeanors about Clinton, and that that was the first

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Speaker 2: time I really I mean I was a practicing lawyer

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Speaker 2: before that. That was the first time I really noticed

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Speaker 2: just the the the mountains of lies that were deployed

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Speaker 2: to defend Bill Clinton to malign anyone who was opposed

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Speaker 2: to him, from Lucy Angeldberg to to Ken Starr and

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Speaker 2: and reading the true history, which is very hard to

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Speaker 2: get on Joe McCarthy of Joe McCarthy, I realized, Oh

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Speaker 2: my gosh, it's the same thing, except we didn't have

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Speaker 2: the internet. It's it's it. Clinton was like the comical

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Speaker 2: mirror image of what they did to McCarthy he had.

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Speaker 2: I'll say briefly, but I do recommend that you read

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Speaker 2: the book, for you'll be amazed at.

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Speaker 3: The facts of the case.

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Speaker 2: One thing you will notice, I'll say this quickly, is

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Speaker 2: that all of the attacks on McCarthy, they're always as

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Speaker 2: they were on people like Ken Starr and Lucy Anner.

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Speaker 2: And I suppose me there are all these generalities. He

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Speaker 2: was a liar, He was a big, fat liar, He

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Speaker 2: destroyed reputations. But my book has the facts, and you'll

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Speaker 2: notice their side does tend to not rely heavily on

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Speaker 2: facts or to repeat the myths that they have created

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Speaker 2: about him. One of my friends is living in Japan

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Speaker 2: at the time. A lot of the publishers they published

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Speaker 2: my book Trees, and he said the publisher came to

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Speaker 2: him and when he read the book, he said, this

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Speaker 2: book says the opposite of everything I've ever heard about

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Speaker 2: Joe McCarthy, every book we've ever published about that period

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Speaker 2: of history. But I believe hers because she has facts.

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Speaker 1: Now, Joe McCarthy with the communist stuff, I assumed communists

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Speaker 1: to be talking about Rusians. Who was looking for Russian

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Speaker 1: influence in American government? Is that what it is?

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Speaker 2: Was specifically that was the only thing he was interested

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Speaker 2: in in our state, our state department. I go through

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Speaker 2: what the equivalent would have been at the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the War on Terror in the Bush administration of all

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Speaker 2: of these active, active agents with the Communist Party just

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Speaker 2: riddled throughout our government. He was not going around attacking

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Speaker 2: journalists or actors, not that I mean Ronald Reagan took

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Speaker 2: on the communists in in in Hollywood. It was a

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Speaker 2: big problem that they were influencing movies and popular culture.

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Speaker 2: But that wasn't That wasn't McCarthy's thing. His was, we

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Speaker 2: have and FDR knew it. We have known members of

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Speaker 2: the Communist Party working in our government and undermining having

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Speaker 2: enormous influence on our foreign policy. Now, what was crucial

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Speaker 2: about when I published Treason is the Venona Papers had

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Speaker 2: had been released thanks to the work of Daniel Patrick moynihan.

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Speaker 2: This whole time during the fifties. We couldn't release it

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Speaker 2: because we didn't want them to know, so the public

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Speaker 2: never knew. We had figured out how to read Soviet cable.

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Speaker 2: Some small outfit within I think it was within the military,

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Speaker 2: and they yeah, and it was called the Venona Project,

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Speaker 2: but I think it was within the military. They were

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Speaker 2: reading all of these Soviet transcripts. Only a small percentage

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Speaker 2: of them, like ten percent have been decrypted at this point,

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Speaker 2: and basically everything everything we McCarthy was saying, it was,

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Speaker 2: it was so much worse. We know, for example, that

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Speaker 2: the Rosenbergs that were communists. His his code.

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Speaker 1: Name was Liberal. But the myth was created that it

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Speaker 1: was just some poor guy who as a college kid

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Speaker 1: went to one meeting and he didn't know what it was,

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Speaker 1: and now his whole life is ruined, right, right, And.

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Speaker 2: That was certainly not the case. No, And you could

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Speaker 2: see it in their policy making decisions. I mean the

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Speaker 2: biggest one was, oh, I can't even think of the

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Speaker 2: one that that's elder Hiss. Elder Hiss. He was the

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Speaker 2: most damaging to our foreign policy statu at Roosevelt's right hand,

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Speaker 2: and he was. I mean they were all, you know,

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Speaker 2: these very elite Harvard educated three name wasps and oh, well,

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Speaker 2: you know, some of our children will grow up and

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Speaker 2: be musicians, some will be communists. It was just it

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Speaker 2: was just sort of accepted by our elites.

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Speaker 1: So we had this problem with the alger Hisses around.

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Speaker 1: But didn't McCarthy once the camera showed up, go a

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Speaker 1: little crazy and go too far, too many people, too

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Speaker 1: much grandstanding.

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Speaker 2: No, Actually that that is well for one thing. I mean,

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Speaker 2: look at Trump. Sometimes you do need to be He

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Speaker 2: was very McCarthy was funny, he was boisterous, He was charismatic.

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Speaker 2: He had that Irish charm. Charismatic McCarthy is he got oh,

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Speaker 2: he got America's attention. I'll mention by the way, you

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Speaker 2: know these they try to bury this. But the Kennedy

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Speaker 2: family loved McCarthy, wanted McCarthy to marry the father Joseph

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Speaker 2: McCarthy wanted his daughter to marry Joe McCarthy. Bob Robert

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Speaker 2: Kennedy worked for McCarthy. He onlys aside because Roy Cone

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Speaker 2: was was was very, very very smart. McCarthy knew it,

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Speaker 2: so macarthy. So Cone was definitely the top of the

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Speaker 2: heap on that committee. But you know, when I interviewed

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Speaker 2: Robert Kennedy Junior on my sub stack, I started off,

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Speaker 2: I was kind of joking about it. I said, because

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Speaker 2: you know, he's always talking about I don't know measles, vaccines,

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Speaker 2: all this other stuff. And I said, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was saying, he was doing this entire subsect just asking

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Speaker 2: you about Joe McCarthy. And he must have been I

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Speaker 2: had just mentioned as a joke. But the first like

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes, well ten minutes, let's say, is him talking

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Speaker 2: about McCarthy coming and hanging out with the family. Wow,

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Speaker 2: they were so close.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. So is this still up on substack?

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Speaker 2: Yes it is.

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Speaker 1: And what's the book you wrote that deals with McCarthy treason, treason.

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Speaker 2: Well, now it's all footnoted. And by the way, that

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Speaker 2: was my third book written I think around two thousand

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Speaker 2: and three, two thousand and four. Now, I love all

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Speaker 2: of my books, but this is this was all sprung

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Speaker 2: on me, so I'm doing it for memory here. I'm

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Speaker 2: not sure if I was as smooth and just describing

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Speaker 2: it as I hope I was when I was promoting

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Speaker 2: the book.

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Speaker 1: Well, I have the book, and now I got to

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Speaker 1: go back and read the McCarthy stuff. Sounds fascinating. So hey,

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Speaker 1: we only got a thirty.

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Speaker 2: Eight ye is it's really interesting and it's nice to

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Speaker 2: talk to you.

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Speaker 3: Or thank you very much, Ann, thanks for the answer.

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Speaker 1: Wow, we only got like thirty seconds here. Hey, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you go to the Epstein files, you know what

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Speaker 1: name comes up the most in the Epstein Harvard? Harvard.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's funny you say that. I almost made

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Speaker 2: that last put that in last week's column. I wrote

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Speaker 2: about other things, but I had a few points I

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Speaker 2: was going to make about the files, and one was

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Speaker 2: I was just randomly searching names to see how many

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Speaker 2: names came up more often than Trump's. Though, you know

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Speaker 2: you need an asterisk with that as you know, the

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Speaker 2: mentions of Trump that the media is going so crazy over.

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Speaker 2: It's all the mentions are Jeffrey Epstein denouncing Trump. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's not like Trump emailing with him or saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: when gonna come to the aunt Wind can we see

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Speaker 2: the girls again? It's nothing from Trump. It's that this

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Speaker 2: pedophile hated him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there were bitter enemies for like twenty years in

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Speaker 1: that file. So hey, we're out of time, But everybody

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Speaker 1: get to book Treason by and Culter. Read that stuff

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Speaker 1: and go to Twitter. It's great a tweeting, and make

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Speaker 1: sure you follow her on substack. It's and Culter dot

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Speaker 1: substack dot com and Culter dot substack dot com and

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Speaker 1: Culter thanks for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Good to talk to you and good to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: RVO, thank you and thanks ay bye bye, and no

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Speaker 1: IRV Substack.

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Speaker 3: Is Irvin's substack, Irvin's.

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Speaker 1: Subsc check that out. And hey, don't forget Buck and Clay.

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Speaker 1: They'll be here right after the news at noon. Excellent

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Speaker 1: show every day from noon to three on seven ten

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Speaker 1: wo r