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Speaker 1: PM fifteen thirty.

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Speaker 2: All right, four four ESPN fifteen thirty Moeger, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for listening. Hopefully you're having i'mos said awesome Thursday,

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Speaker 2: a delightful Wednesday afternoon. A little bit later on, our

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Speaker 2: guy Will Grimmer's going to help you win some money

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Speaker 2: at the Masters. Probably not at the Masters, but if

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Speaker 2: you are going, man, that's awesome. But win some money

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Speaker 2: this weekend betting on the Masters, or maybe just give

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Speaker 2: you an idea of which golfers to pay closest attention to.

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Speaker 2: And and by the way, yes, if you're gonna make

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Speaker 2: a wager on the Masters, make sure you do it

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Speaker 2: in your kitchen pantry so your kids can't see what

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Speaker 2: you're doing. Let's talk with our guy Joe Goodberry, Brendanman

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Speaker 2: and Jones later on this hour as well, and our

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Speaker 2: new sports business guy coming up in just about thirty

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Speaker 2: minutes with a red stilt to that. But Joe Goodberry

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Speaker 2: is with us Bengals on the Brain first Star Media Group.

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Speaker 2: The latest Bengals on the Brain episod on YouTube is

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Speaker 2: Joe Goodberry's mock Draft three point zero. It is a

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Speaker 2: must watch. I watched it this morning first of all, Joe,

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Speaker 2: how are you.

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Speaker 1: Counting down the draft day? So I'm doing great. Nothing

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Speaker 1: really bothered me at this.

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Speaker 2: Point, you and me both. We'll see if that changes

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Speaker 2: two weeks from tomorrow night, before we dive into the draft.

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Speaker 2: Give me to this point, free agency, the good, the bad,

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Speaker 2: Who they've acquired, what they've ignored. Give me a thirty

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Speaker 2: thousand foot view perspective of what the Bengals have done

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Speaker 2: in free agency.

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Speaker 1: Well, they attacked the defensive line with Boye Mafe and

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Allen. Those are two guys I like and two

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Speaker 1: guys I wanted them to go after. They went after

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Speaker 1: a thorn on the defensive side forever has been safety

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Speaker 1: sin Jesse Bates, bam Bell departure. They got Brian Cook,

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Speaker 1: who's the best safety in free agency. Those are all

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Speaker 1: good things. And I think even the late pickups of

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Speaker 1: Jesserah Taylor that can compete at nickel corner and Dougar

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Speaker 1: at safety who can be like a safety linebacker hybrid,

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Speaker 1: who's what he he's been in his career. Kyle Duggar

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Speaker 1: has been that guy that I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: teams are to chase that prototype now. So I'll be

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Speaker 1: interested to see how they deploy him and what the

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Speaker 1: role for him is. You add on the defense, and

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Speaker 1: I'm happy and I'm good with all that if you

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Speaker 1: want to get into the weeds. I thought they could

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Speaker 1: have done so much more in reducing the cap hits

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Speaker 1: and giving themselves more flexibility and more ability to go

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Speaker 1: out and get a couple more guys. And I hate

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Speaker 1: getting to December January and just wondering if one, two,

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Speaker 1: three more signings would have pushed them over the top.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like we're in the spring here saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think they could have done a little more.

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Speaker 2: Should I be as frustrated as I am at the

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Speaker 2: lack of a linebacker?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I think they are too. There's been some conflicting

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Speaker 1: reports of people like, you know, I'm not sure they're

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Speaker 1: going for the big guys. I think it depends on

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Speaker 1: who you ask. Were they ever going to give the

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Speaker 1: money that Devin Lloyd wanted? Probably not, that's how they

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Speaker 1: do contracts. But did they really want to get a

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Speaker 1: good linebacker? I think they did, and they went after

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Speaker 1: quite a few guys that I know of, So for me,

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Speaker 1: I think there's still being monitor I think it's still

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Speaker 1: a position where you can come back and circle after

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Speaker 1: free agency, it wasn't a good free agent class. The

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Speaker 1: initial ones in the field, and you know, if you

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Speaker 1: want to go get Devin Lloyd, Leosh and all. Those

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Speaker 1: are the two guys we kept pegging because those are

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Speaker 1: the only two that I really wanted, and so like

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Speaker 1: your options were swim. The chances that you were going

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Speaker 1: to be one of the teams to get them, especially

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Speaker 1: with the where the Bengals off of free agent contracts

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Speaker 1: was slim. So can you come back around and get

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Speaker 1: Bobby Wagner, Matt Malano, Shaq Thompson to help give you

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Speaker 1: a veteran Could you still get Sonny Styles or any

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Speaker 1: of these guys in a very very strong linebacker class.

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Speaker 1: Of course you could. I think the dilemma comes when

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Speaker 1: they had second round grades on Demetrius Knight and Brett

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Speaker 1: Carter last year. At what point if you slotted them

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Speaker 1: into this class, they'd be lower for me. But if

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Speaker 1: they were to slot them in this class, where do

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Speaker 1: they say, Okay, we're not going to draft one now

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Speaker 1: because they're not better than the two guys that we've

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Speaker 1: already given a year of seasoning two we're better off

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Speaker 1: rolling with Knight and Carter and picking up a veteran

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Speaker 1: after the draft. That is going to be something they're

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Speaker 1: gonna have to weigh at some point.

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Speaker 2: So you mentioned the name Sonny Styles, and I want

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Speaker 2: to ask you about him because in your mind, and

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Speaker 2: you did it based on what you think is going

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Speaker 2: to happen, not necessarily what you wish would happen. But

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Speaker 2: you had the Giants taking Sonny at number five. They

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Speaker 2: are the betting favor to take Sonny Styles if if

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Speaker 2: they pivot in another direction, which I think would be

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Speaker 2: a surprise, what are the odds that Sonny is there

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Speaker 2: when the Bengals go in the clock at number ten.

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Speaker 1: Sonny's one of the cleanest prospects in this class. It's

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Speaker 1: a weird class without the star power at the top.

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Speaker 1: There's not the big left tackle that's an all world

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Speaker 1: left tackle. There's an even Colonel tatut wide receiver isn't

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Speaker 1: the type of guy we've seen. He's not Malik Neighbors, right,

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Speaker 1: He's not the top receiver. In other classes. He would

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Speaker 1: still be a top fifteen pick. But you know, even

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Speaker 1: at corner, if Jermont mccuiy, mancher, Dewayne there are some

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Speaker 1: questions on those guys as well, so there's no big

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Speaker 1: defensive tackle. Even the pass rushers. Arvo Reeves is a

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Speaker 1: guy that's kind of a tweener, and David Bailey isn't

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Speaker 1: a little bit older that doesn't bend the corner as well,

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Speaker 1: So there's questions on all these guys. There are no

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Speaker 1: questions really on Sunny Styles. He's just developed and getting

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Speaker 1: into his own and you can see what that upside

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Speaker 1: and potential looks like. It's an absolute freak show in

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Speaker 1: terms of hype, weight, speed, and I think teams are

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Speaker 1: gonna drool over that potential. But linebacker is a tough

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Speaker 1: position to draft in Round one and a tough one

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Speaker 1: to draft overall in the top ten because they don't

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Speaker 1: typically get second contracts with their team. And it's part

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Speaker 1: of the big part is the CBA. You can't put

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Speaker 1: the fifth year option on them because they're labeled as

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Speaker 1: defensive ends because outside linebackers in the three four and

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Speaker 1: somehow we can't figure this out, you know, twenty years later.

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Speaker 1: But and then you can't put the franchise tag on

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Speaker 1: them because again they get valued as a defensive end.

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Speaker 1: So it's stupid you aren't gonna put a franchise tag

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Speaker 1: on Sunny thousand five years. That's gonna be thirty million

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Speaker 1: dollars when the top linebackers probably making twenty two at

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Speaker 1: that point. So you're never gonna do it. And these

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Speaker 1: guys are not getting second contracts. So if you know that,

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Speaker 1: some teams are just going, we're not going to do it.

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Speaker 1: We can get that guy in round two to three four,

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Speaker 1: but I think because he's so clean, there's a chance

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Speaker 1: to achieve or the or the commanders or the same

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Speaker 1: And somebody out of them just said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: that's a guy we cannot pass on. But if he

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Speaker 1: gets close, and if he gets near the Bengals and

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Speaker 1: gets to that spot, I do think he'd be very

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Speaker 1: high for them.

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Speaker 2: Joe Goodbary Bengals on the Brain on YouTube latest episode

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Speaker 2: Mod Draft three point zero. I'm not going to give

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Speaker 2: away all your content, but you had a chance in

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Speaker 2: your mod draft to take Caleb downs you did not.

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Speaker 2: How much is that informed by what they've done specifically

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Speaker 2: at safety so far in free agency?

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Speaker 1: So a lot of that conversation I talked about that

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Speaker 1: value at linebacker also applies to safety, and it makes

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Speaker 1: it very hard to take those guys. They tend to

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Speaker 1: get the positions we say are like non premium positions

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Speaker 1: center guard, tight end, linebacker, safety, those are all we

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Speaker 1: call them that because they get drafted later in the draft.

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Speaker 1: They don't get paid as much in free agency, so

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Speaker 1: these are lesser positions. They're still I want an impact

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Speaker 1: player at those spots, and I think Caleb Downs is that.

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Speaker 1: But teams are going to weigh again another strong class

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Speaker 1: at safety, so safety, linebacker. Two strong classes could push

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Speaker 1: these guys a little bit down. If you say, you

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Speaker 1: know what, we're just not going to take Downs here

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Speaker 1: who is a smaller guy didn't do any of this testing.

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Speaker 1: Or we can get a guy in round two that's

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Speaker 1: really good at safety. We might go for the wide

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Speaker 1: receiver now, we might go for the offensive lineman now,

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Speaker 1: or the edge rusher now. So I kind of gets

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Speaker 1: why teams would do it. But to me, and we

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Speaker 1: do our draft spreadsheet every year, he's got the highest

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Speaker 1: tape grade of any player in this class for us,

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Speaker 1: and I think he's a special guy. And then when

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Speaker 1: you hear any evaluator or scout or anyone that hasn't

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Speaker 1: spent any time around Caleb Downs, talk about him from

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Speaker 1: a personal level and who he is and how he

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Speaker 1: would change what you do on defense and the culture

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Speaker 1: in the locker room and the mindset. Like that sounds

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Speaker 1: like that's exactly what the Bengals need. So I do

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Speaker 1: wonder if they will look for a premium position over him.

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Speaker 1: But what if they're not there. I run into many

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Speaker 1: box wor it's just Caleb Downs and you look at

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Speaker 1: the rest of the field, and I'm like, yeah, why

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Speaker 1: would you take anybody else? So it could be that

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Speaker 1: scenario too.

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Speaker 2: All right, Ruben Bain, who you did have going to

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Speaker 2: Cincinnati at ten? Overall, you've you've talked about this, I

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Speaker 2: think maybe more than any other topic. But the short

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Speaker 2: arms thing would come up immediately. Give me the cliff

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Speaker 2: nodes counter to that when somebody says, look the arm

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Speaker 2: the short arms thing should preclude them from taking him

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Speaker 2: a ten.

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Speaker 1: Overall, Yeah, it's a real thing. His arms are short.

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Speaker 1: We cannot deny that. But it is more than just

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Speaker 1: arm length. I see a lot of people that are,

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Speaker 1: you know, doing basic draft analysis, not able. They'll bring

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Speaker 1: up the arm length and say, hey, no one's ever

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Speaker 1: succeeded with this, No one's ever gone in the first

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Speaker 1: round with this. And first, my retort on a football

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Speaker 1: level is nobody plays defensive end at this that size.

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Speaker 1: They don't make it to defensive end. They normally say,

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Speaker 1: you got to add twenty pounds, we're gonna put you

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Speaker 1: at defensive tackle, or you're gonna drop twenty pounds, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna put you at linebacker. The body type is weird

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Speaker 1: at defensive end, there's no denying that. But it goes

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Speaker 1: further than that. Number one. The wingspan is important. It's

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Speaker 1: why they measure wing span. How broad are your shoulders,

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Speaker 1: that's your real lengths, that's your tackle radius. That's your

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Speaker 1: ability to long arm guys, because you're turning your shoulders

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Speaker 1: in a long arm. It's not just one arm sticking

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Speaker 1: straight out. When you're putting doing a pass rush. You're

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Speaker 1: turning your shoulders to give you that extra length. Because

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Speaker 1: even if you've had thirty two inch arms of the defensive end,

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Speaker 1: the offensive tackle better have thirty three and plus. Right,

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Speaker 1: we talk about arm length all the time. At offensive tackles,

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Speaker 1: they're thirty three, thirty four to thirty five. So if

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Speaker 1: you have thirty two, you're already outgunned. But why can

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Speaker 1: they still beat them in still long arm them? Carl Lawson,

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Speaker 1: We just see them list guys. We see geno Akins

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Speaker 1: list guys with that long arm. Why those are short

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Speaker 1: armed guys? Because they turn their shoulders, they have better wingspan,

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Speaker 1: They had good technique, hand placement, and raw brute strength.

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Speaker 1: So I need guys that are explosives that have good technique,

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Speaker 1: good hand placement, and play with a raw intensity. Ruben

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Speaker 1: Bain nails all of that, and his wingspan is not

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Speaker 1: as bad as his arm length. His wingspan is just

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Speaker 1: shorter than Aiden Hutchinson, just shorter than Nick Bosa. It

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Speaker 1: is the exact same wingspan, is true Hendrickson. So you

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Speaker 1: think that would scare of the Bengals. I don't think

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Speaker 1: it would at all. There's a story about Trey Henderson

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Speaker 1: Hendrickson going to from the Saints to the Bengals and

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Speaker 1: that first year their d line coaches and their past

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Speaker 1: worst coaches showing them different things than techniques he could

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Speaker 1: master to help him get as much length as possible

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Speaker 1: on his moves. And Trey Henderson was an elite athlete

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Speaker 1: with great power too and technique. I think you can

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Speaker 1: see that in Ruben bayin a lot and he's a

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Speaker 1: great run defender. He can play left right, defensive tackle.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna move him around, keep the advantage in his favor.

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Speaker 1: Find an offensive lineman on the other team who's got

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Speaker 1: the shorter stim So, okay, Ruben Ban, you're gonna rush

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Speaker 1: against him thirty times today. There are ways to go

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Speaker 1: about it, and I think the team that looks at

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Speaker 1: it from that perspective is going to draft him. Now,

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Speaker 1: I will say the last two guys you talked about here,

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Speaker 1: Caleb Downs and Ruby Bain. I've been saying this for

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Speaker 1: subscribers on Twitter for about three weeks now. I believe,

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Speaker 1: and I've been talking to people and trying to reach

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Speaker 1: to other teams and people I know over the years.

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Speaker 1: Now I believe there's a good shot one or both

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Speaker 1: are there for the Bengals at ten. So that's why

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Speaker 1: when I did that mock, I really wanted to put

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Speaker 1: that scenario there to talk it through because I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's crazy. I think teams are gonna have concerned

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Speaker 1: with both guys, which just takes one team and then

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Speaker 1: you can see why you fall in love with either guy.

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Speaker 2: If Jeremiah Love is there at ten? Are you tempted?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: Completely, because that also means that Bain probably already Wentz,

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Speaker 1: maybe Caleb Wentz. And you may sit there and you go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: do we want to take a corner? Both corners I

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Speaker 1: really liked, But do you want to take a corner?

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Speaker 1: And it could mean the end of either Dacks or

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Speaker 1: DJ Turner's career with the Bengals, because are they going

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Speaker 1: to keep all three guys or they just use it

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Speaker 1: as leverage? And could you say, well, the best player

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Speaker 1: in the draft is Jeremiah Loves He's number two on

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Speaker 1: the consensus, right, so yes, he's a fantastic player. Would

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Speaker 1: you take a b John Robinson? Would you take any

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Speaker 1: of the top five running backs in the league and

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Speaker 1: say give it in this put it in this offense?

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Speaker 1: Would that scare the defense? Would that scare defensive coordinators?

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Speaker 1: I think it would. I think they already have nightmares

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Speaker 1: about Jamar Chase and T Higgins and even Mike Koseki

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Speaker 1: and Chase Brown, right, the antler players on this offense

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Speaker 1: that can really do damage on any given Sunday. Well,

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Speaker 1: you add a top five type running back with home

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Speaker 1: run speed, game breaking speed, I think that everyone else

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Speaker 1: around the league would laugh for a second and then

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Speaker 1: they'd go, damn, we got to cover up all list.

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Speaker 1: That is not good news for us. And in a

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Speaker 1: class that's really good at linebackers, safety, and defensive end,

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Speaker 1: you could really nail Day two and come away and say,

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Speaker 1: you know what, that's probably the best move for us

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Speaker 1: to make at ten. Take the best player available. And

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Speaker 1: we're asking a lot to ask the Bengals to nail

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Speaker 1: Day two, but if they did, they could really come

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Speaker 1: away as winners in the draft.

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Speaker 2: In in mock Draft three point zero, which I watched

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Speaker 2: on YouTube this morning, you had me wait a while

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Speaker 2: before you took a linebacker. If I wake up on

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Speaker 2: Saturday morning of the draft and the Bengals haven't addressed

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Speaker 2: that position, how much should I worry?

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Speaker 1: If they haven't done it by Saturday? So they're saying

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Speaker 1: day three, while if I wake up to.

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Speaker 2: Day three, If I wake up day three rounds, if

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Speaker 2: I go to bed Friday night, and regardless of who

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Speaker 2: they've taken and which quality of players you know they've

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Speaker 2: acquired and which positions they've addressed, if I go to

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Speaker 2: bed on Friday night and I'm still thinking it's Barrett Carter,

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Speaker 2: Demetrius Knight and whatever's behind door number two. How concerned

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Speaker 2: should I be relative to the depth of the linebacker class?

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Speaker 1: You know? I confuse me, mo, because I'm getting old

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Speaker 1: as well, and I remember the draft being on the weekend, right,

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Speaker 1: and that was a good time and I kind of

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Speaker 1: a year for those days again. But yeah, Day three

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Speaker 1: and Saturday. Should you be concerned? It is a strong

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Speaker 1: linebacker class. Do I think someone could still be there

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Speaker 1: in the fourth Now they don't have a fifth, so

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Speaker 1: do they recoup that pick at some point? I could

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Speaker 1: see them training back and trying to get an extra

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Speaker 1: pick for that spot because there is some depth to

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Speaker 1: you that I think the class balls off in round

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Speaker 1: six and seven, but in round four and five you

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Speaker 1: can still get contributing players. And we've seen especially linebacker

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Speaker 1: be able to come in and I think the Bengals

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Speaker 1: specifically could be looking for at this point if we

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Speaker 1: get to that point, all right, is there a Sam linebacker?

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Speaker 1: Is there a guy that can play on the edge

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Speaker 1: and do some of the bare front stuff we need

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Speaker 1: to do where we bring that guy down and have

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Speaker 1: them control the edge, play the run and not allow

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Speaker 1: anyone to get outside of them in the run game.

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Speaker 1: There are a few guys like that that you could

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Speaker 1: take and that would still be there, And I think

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Speaker 1: like it consensus Jayshawn Barrow out of Michigan, who's kind

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Speaker 1: of like an edge linebacker hybrid, the SAM kind of

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Speaker 1: prototype that you would be looking for. He's consensus one

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Speaker 1: oh four. That is the fourth round, beginning of the

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Speaker 1: fourth round, if he was still there, So it really depends.

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Speaker 1: Would I be nervous? I would because it means Knight

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Speaker 1: and Carter are likely or still still too getting the

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Speaker 1: bulk of the snaps, like some fourth round linebackers, unlikely

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Speaker 1: to come in and unseat these guys. But we said

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Speaker 1: this last year, we didn't think that Barrett Carter was

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Speaker 1: going to come in and get the green dot by

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Speaker 1: week five, right, So it could happen, and depending on

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Speaker 1: how they grade these guys and say, oh, we had

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Speaker 1: a second round pick on Brett Carter, Sure you did.

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Speaker 1: Of course, that's how it goes. But are there guys here?

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Speaker 1: There are Kayshawn Elliett from Arizona State, Bryce Betcher from Oregon.

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Speaker 1: I think Harold Perkins would be a good SAM guy

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Speaker 1: from LSU, and I think LSU misused them like crazy.

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Speaker 1: All of these guys cray More. That would be a

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Speaker 1: perfect Sam linebacker out of Texas. There are a ton

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Speaker 1: of them on Day three, probably going to go in

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Speaker 1: that fourth fifth round range. Or you could still help

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Speaker 1: these guys look better by giving them a good you know,

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Speaker 1: get to me this night out of that Sam spot

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Speaker 1: that's where I thought he looked his worst. Put a

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Speaker 1: better guy there and get let Knight do his thing

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Speaker 1: back in the middle.

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Speaker 2: I ask you something along these lines every year. Give

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Speaker 2: me and I know we just talked about Saturday and linebackers,

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Speaker 2: but give me a player maybe too that as you

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Speaker 2: have done your draft prep work, you go. You know

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Speaker 2: what if late Saturday afternoon that guy is there rounds five,

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Speaker 2: sixty seven, that is a player I would love to

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Speaker 2: see to come to Cincinnati.

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Speaker 1: I've got quite a few our draft sheets should be

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Speaker 1: out probably Friday to the public, so you're going to

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Speaker 1: see a lot of surprising name. Then it could be

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Speaker 1: even at the top. Number one guy is not someone

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Speaker 1: that anybody else has, and I'll give you that. And

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Speaker 1: if if the Bengals put some of them at ten,

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Speaker 1: I do dances and have to explain why it's okay.

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Speaker 1: But let's say we go down in the Day three

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Speaker 1: and use that. There are quite a few guys. I

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Speaker 1: think Eli Raridan, the tight end from Notre Dame, is

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Speaker 1: exactly what they could want. This is a super strong

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Speaker 1: tight end class. He gets a fringe first round score

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Speaker 1: for us. Take in his data and his athleticism. He's

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Speaker 1: a big blocker with good hands. He had a couple

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Speaker 1: of injuries in his career, which is what's going to

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Speaker 1: keep him into Day three consensus fifth maybe sixth round pick.

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Speaker 1: If he's there, I think that is a big boost

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Speaker 1: to what they would want. Kind of a hybrid between

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Speaker 1: Drew Sample and White Caseki. I know people are listening

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Speaker 1: right now and saying we got Eric. Oh yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you can't trust that camp bank on it. There's probably

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Speaker 1: twenty draftable maybe twenty five. I've seen on the beast

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Speaker 1: twenty five draftable tight ends in this class. That many

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Speaker 1: does not get drafted. It's only fifteen to eighteen. There's

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Speaker 1: going to be a ton getting drafted this year more

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Speaker 1: than normal. Every team should get one or at least

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Speaker 1: close to the Bengals. I would suspect in on Day

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Speaker 1: three go after that position hard. One guy that scores

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Speaker 1: really high for us that really isn't with anybody else too.

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Speaker 1: Safeties actually has been pulling up right now. Jalen Husky

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Speaker 1: from Maryland and WHYDT Williams from Ole miss These are

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Speaker 1: why at Williams is three hundred and fifty second on

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Speaker 1: the consensus board and Jalen Husky is one hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty eight. So we're talking sixth round or so. Both

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Speaker 1: guys get second round scores for us because their data

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Speaker 1: is really good. Their athleticism was good, PFF scoring and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff that looks to have a core lived

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Speaker 1: data from year from the NFL or college to NFL

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Speaker 1: from year on a consistency basis, Jalen Hosky and White

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Speaker 1: at Williams get boost straight there. Like if you're in

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Speaker 1: round six and they haven't taken a safety, give me

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Speaker 1: either one of those guys that they did have a

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Speaker 1: shot to stick and make your team.

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Speaker 2: I always feel so much smarter after we chat. You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to bother you right after the draft. Can't

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Speaker 2: thank you enough. Looking forward to it. I know you

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Speaker 2: have a lot of content coming up. We'll check it out.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk to you soon man, Thanks so much.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Boll.

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Speaker 2: Joe Goodbary Bengals on the Brain on YouTube Awesome stuff.

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Speaker 2: As always twenty one after four o'clock, we have to

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Speaker 2: get to a Red's Mystery this hour on ESPN fifteen

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Speaker 2: thirty Cincinnati Sports.

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Speaker 1: Station Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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