Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American?
Speaker 2: Here we go Monday morning, back at at Scott Sloan,
Speaker 2: hanging with you on seven hundred w WELW and we
Speaker 2: pick up where we left off last week, and that
Speaker 2: is three Ohio companies, including a Cincinnati outfit, filed a
Speaker 2: lawsuit challenging Republican Governor Mike Dewines emergency order to ban
Speaker 2: the sale of low level intoxicating hemp products Delta eight
Speaker 2: infused products like edibles, gummies, and some certain seltzer. So
Speaker 2: let me just lay the explainer out because I was
Speaker 2: talking to people a few people this weekend are like, Okay,
Speaker 2: so I can't understand what the difference is between Delta
Speaker 2: and Dental nine and then CBD and then cannabis. Okay,
Speaker 2: So it's complicated. I'll try and make as simple as possible.
Speaker 2: So cannabis and hemp are they're related plants. They look
Speaker 2: alike chemically, they're different, and the part that gets you
Speaker 2: high is much less so in hemp. Hemp has been
Speaker 2: legal in the United States, Cannabis is not by federal law.
Speaker 2: THC of the cannabis part and way THHD is the
Speaker 2: part that gets you high. CBD doesn't basically, so hemp
Speaker 2: has a little little bit of and CBD has a
Speaker 2: little bit of THHC in the hamp anyway. But so
Speaker 2: what they do is the products and because of this,
Speaker 2: I don't know you call the loophole, but product can
Speaker 2: be sold anywhere in the Buckeye State, hemp products, so
Speaker 2: the government doesn't really have jurisdiction over them. And so
Speaker 2: the end result is, hey, we've got hemp and we've
Speaker 2: got cannabis. The THHC and the CBD. That's the difference
Speaker 2: between the two. The other thing you need to know
Speaker 2: you keep hearing about delta eight and delta nine and
Speaker 2: is the chemical compound that makes it up. So eight
Speaker 2: is generally considered not as potent and milder than delta nine.
Speaker 2: Delta nine is the classic weed high. Delta eight is
Speaker 2: a more it's a buzz I guess, it's kind of relaxing.
Speaker 2: Maybe not as intoxicating, certainly. And the concern is Delta
Speaker 2: eight is synthetically produced by converting hemp derived CB product
Speaker 2: into a chemical process. They extract that point three percent
Speaker 2: out and then now you can get enough of that
Speaker 2: to distill in concertate enough to put in a product
Speaker 2: that will allow one to become mightily intoxicated. So I
Speaker 2: think that is like the dummies version, my version of
Speaker 2: what's going on here, and then we'll get to the
Speaker 2: politics of it. Because Ohio State Senator Steve Hoffman is
Speaker 2: on the show from Tip City. He's a physician and
Speaker 2: sits in the legislature in Columbus. Steve, how are you.
Speaker 3: I'm doing well on yourself.
Speaker 2: I'm doing fine. It's always difficult to kind of explain
Speaker 2: complex issues like that. I struggle with it, but hopefully
Speaker 2: I think, you know, maybe nine out of ten, ninety
Speaker 2: nine out of one hundred, I think I got most
Speaker 2: of the points right. Then that's where that's where things
Speaker 2: stand right now in Ohiot's I hate calling it loophole
Speaker 2: because loopole is such a loaded term, but it kind
Speaker 2: of is when it comes to hamp.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: So the definition of hemp is less than zero point
Speaker 3: three percent thchc. And to give you a reference from that,
Speaker 3: marijuana during woodstock was six percent thchc. Yeah, today it
Speaker 3: has grown at about thirty five percent. So in woodstock
Speaker 3: you're a catching a little buzz. Now you're getting stoned
Speaker 3: with just a little bit of product.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is which is agricultural progress. I mean in
Speaker 2: other areas it would celebrate. I mean, hell, Steve. And
Speaker 2: if you go back to the same time period of
Speaker 2: in the nineteen fifties, you know, we get what is it,
Speaker 2: four to six times more yield per acre for you
Speaker 2: know what it is we grow in our fields because
Speaker 2: of technology, the same thing.
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I agree, I'm not complaining or anything. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, just you used to get four bushes an acre.
Speaker 3: Now you're getting twenty bushes and that's great. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: that's modern technology.
Speaker 2: It's technology. But as far as the HIGA, so it's
Speaker 2: kind of a sort of a loopholder. And I understand
Speaker 2: the concern. The concern is this, you do have teenagers,
Speaker 2: younger people even younger than teenagers, preteens, even going into
Speaker 2: you know, gas stations or carryouts, not all of them,
Speaker 2: but a number of them, and they will get a
Speaker 2: deltaate product because there's no age requirement, and the unscrupulous
Speaker 2: retailers have no problems selling that product to a kid.
Speaker 2: Nobody wants that.
Speaker 3: Oh, I agree, And you know you're not going to
Speaker 3: see Kroger's or my Ers there places like that sell it.
Speaker 3: But you usually it's the one off gas station that
Speaker 3: you know, see it kinda see is a high profit
Speaker 3: law margin?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for them, it's nothing about money. And okay, I
Speaker 2: get in that regard. Why the governor say, hey, we've
Speaker 2: got to do something about this. He's been complaining about
Speaker 2: this for a while, and it's specifically aimed at these
Speaker 2: you know, the intoxicating him products can be sold to
Speaker 2: kids that there's no quality control and they're dangerous. But
Speaker 2: my problem is this, Steve As, you know, what about
Speaker 2: adults who choose to use your stuff? What about for example,
Speaker 2: I had on Friday morning the head of the fifty
Speaker 2: West call him to the show because he was listening
Speaker 2: and talk about how much money they stand to lose
Speaker 2: because a lot of adults are going, you know what,
Speaker 2: I really like the I like the products at Deltate,
Speaker 2: like the CBD infused products at a bar more than
Speaker 2: I like the alcohol. And now we've got this tremendous
Speaker 2: wave that's sweeping across Ohan the rest of the country
Speaker 2: when it comes to adults going to in a bar
Speaker 2: and ordering one of these products. And now we have,
Speaker 2: just because of this alleged emergency, we've shut all that
Speaker 2: down that's what's problematic for me.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't disagree with you. You know, the Senate
Speaker 3: passed my bill eighty six back in March that would
Speaker 3: have solved all this problem, and the House is looking
Speaker 3: has taken it up, but hasn't decided what to do
Speaker 3: with it. And basically it said, if it's intoxicating with THHC,
Speaker 3: it needs to go into the dispensaries and we carve
Speaker 3: out the beverages to go to see her the liquor
Speaker 3: license so that they can continue to be sold.
Speaker 2: That seems like an easy fix. Why didn't we do it.
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 3: So there's two trains of thought. One put it in
Speaker 3: the dispensaries. Ard number two kind of like the guy
Speaker 3: that you had on the other day that you can
Speaker 3: to be in any retail store, require twenty one and
Speaker 3: over and still be in those stores, but have a license.
Speaker 3: There is no license or plan for a license, but
Speaker 3: be twenty one and over to get THAC in that.
Speaker 2: Form right, Because if I'm going to a bar, I
Speaker 2: mean fifty wests really upstanding place you go. Their kids
Speaker 2: are welcome, their dogs are welcome, they're hell they built
Speaker 2: one in Mason here where I am. It's gorgeous. They've
Speaker 2: got volleyball courts, they got sand for the kids to play,
Speaker 2: and they've got alcohol. They've got the CB drink D drinks.
Speaker 2: They got food and you know, the margins and food
Speaker 2: and beverage. I don't have to tell you, Steve Hoffman, Senator,
Speaker 2: it's really really tight when I have someone on from
Speaker 2: that industry, or for example, retailers that are saying, hey, look,
Speaker 2: you know now like a quarter of my revenue and
Speaker 2: a growing number of the revenue is coming from these
Speaker 2: products because people are going beer sales are down. The
Speaker 2: fifty West folks said, yeah, we're the craft beer. Things
Speaker 2: kind of peaked right now. Now people are like favoring
Speaker 2: how they feel after drinking a couple CBD laced beverages
Speaker 2: as opposed to traditional alcohol, because that's what the public wants.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you get away with calling this
Speaker 2: is such an emergency you've got to shut it all
Speaker 2: down in effect immediately for at least ninety days. And
Speaker 2: now we have people who have invested heavily in the
Speaker 2: product and developing and selling and the like for a
Speaker 2: market that clearly exists by adults. And now you're telling
Speaker 2: me even they can't have it. That's extreme to me.
Speaker 2: To call this an emergency is absurd.
Speaker 3: I don't disagree with you. I think the governor was
Speaker 3: his way to force the people, the General Assembly to
Speaker 3: either look at eighty six and put it in the dispensaries,
Speaker 3: or there's a ten to fifteen people in the House
Speaker 3: that say we shouldn't do that, we should just leave.
Speaker 3: Let these people do it, but make it twenty one
Speaker 3: and over. Maybe behind the counter, like we have other
Speaker 3: products behind the counter so that people can't get to
Speaker 3: it is another train of thought. Or you know or
Speaker 3: you know, have a license to do well.
Speaker 2: They're not going they're going to carre it to anybody
Speaker 2: who walks in. They're not going to sell these drinks
Speaker 2: to kids because of a loophole. Now maybe there's some
Speaker 2: again unscrupulous retailers, but we should be using the law
Speaker 2: to go after them and allowing the adults. Anyway, the
Speaker 2: good people to get what they want and what business
Speaker 2: is willing to sell. And it's a market driven economy. Obviously,
Speaker 2: this is a play by the governor because he's willing
Speaker 2: to be the bad guy here to say, hey, look,
Speaker 2: we're going to force the House to do something to
Speaker 2: act on this from what you hear now, granted you're
Speaker 2: in a different chamber, is there any impetus to move
Speaker 2: quickly on this as a result.
Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, we'll see if these, you know,
Speaker 3: the temporary injunctions are out there. A lot of people
Speaker 3: think that they will not that they will be success
Speaker 3: successful to overturning the governor, because the governor has said,
Speaker 3: essentially for the last year and a half, this HEMP
Speaker 3: product and with the Dela eight Della nine is really bad.
Speaker 3: We've got to do something, but I can't do it.
Speaker 3: I can't do it with an executive order. And he
Speaker 3: says it's said that twenty five times, and now he's
Speaker 3: doing it. And so there's a lot of people think
Speaker 3: that that it'll be overturned his executive order. So but
Speaker 3: it'll give people some emphasis to you know, to come
Speaker 3: to the table, to be able to say, Okay, is
Speaker 3: it twenty one and over in any store or is
Speaker 3: it over here in the dispensaries, because we've identified it
Speaker 3: this intoxicating.
Speaker 2: Right, And I'll get back to the initial thing. And
Speaker 2: this is where I get what Mike DeWine is doing
Speaker 2: and leveraging this and saying we're declaring emergency shut it down.
Speaker 2: So there's pressure on the Assembly to get something done
Speaker 2: and get it done in a hurry. But at the
Speaker 2: same time, this is a problem that was created for
Speaker 2: a long time by these same elected officials in that
Speaker 2: there's been sizable demand for cannabis, medicinal cannabis and then
Speaker 2: recreational cannabis. Everyone saw this coming. It was a matter
Speaker 2: of time before we passed it. Then the legislature after
Speaker 2: it was a grassroots effort, are going to pass Then
Speaker 2: the legislature got involved in trying too. Well, now we've
Speaker 2: got to regulated because this was the people I didn't
Speaker 2: fought for the governor themselves that I don't want this
Speaker 2: in my state. I went to Colorado. It's terrible, and
Speaker 2: the people in Colorado seem to enjoy it because they
Speaker 2: keep voting for it. So at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: I see this whole CBD and the point three percent
Speaker 2: THCHC and that's just a workaround. It's synthetic marijuana. Because
Speaker 2: had we just accepted the fact that people want to
Speaker 2: use THHC products and I'm talking about adults here, and
Speaker 2: accept that and leaned into it, we wouldn't have this
Speaker 2: whole loophole to begin with. I don't think, you know,
Speaker 2: it seems like this is a problem created by overregulation
Speaker 2: and not being responded to the constituents that for many,
Speaker 2: many years said what's wrong with us having some pot?
Speaker 3: I don't disagree with a lot of things you said.
Speaker 3: I think it goes back to twenty eighteen. You know,
Speaker 3: the FEDS created in the Farm Bill the ability to
Speaker 3: have hemp. I had sentate Bill fifty seven in Ohio
Speaker 3: that legalized hemp. And it was our short sightedness. We
Speaker 3: didn't really think about the CBD and the THHC. We
Speaker 3: knew that there had to be under point three, but
Speaker 3: we were thinking about industrial hamp and you were going
Speaker 3: to grow it for clothing and straws and car parts.
Speaker 3: But since then, the you know, this market for CBDs
Speaker 3: when and when people say I want a full spectrum product,
Speaker 3: that means it has higher levels the THHC in it,
Speaker 3: And so we didn't really think of that.
Speaker 2: Now now we have to deal with it because that's
Speaker 2: what the people wanted. So the people who are going
Speaker 2: to get whether it's I mean as well, you know
Speaker 2: Steve that you know prohibition does not work in almost
Speaker 2: all cases, it just simply doesn't work, especially in something
Speaker 2: in this fashion.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 2: One of the things I hear too, and you as
Speaker 2: a physician, Steve and can address this, is that we
Speaker 2: don't know enough about delta eight. We don't know enough
Speaker 2: about these derivatives, whether how healthy they are, and with
Speaker 2: the initial report, largely because you know, outside of hamp
Speaker 2: But we'll talk about cannabis. It's been a Schedule one
Speaker 2: narcotic for so long that no one's allowed to do
Speaker 2: research on it. So it's hard to say, hey, we
Speaker 2: can't do research and find out what's in it. Well
Speaker 2: because the law, federal law prescribes it, we can't do that.
Speaker 2: What about CBD? What do we know so far about
Speaker 2: this product that, for all intents and purposes is illegal
Speaker 2: despite this this ninety day shutdown. But people do it
Speaker 2: for all sorts of reasons. I've tried it. It worked
Speaker 2: for me, I thought for a little bit, but I
Speaker 2: guess it didn't. Some people report great success with diminished
Speaker 2: pain and focus and things like that.
Speaker 3: So there's three things in marijuana, and three common things
Speaker 3: in marijuana, and half the THC, the CBD, and another
Speaker 3: product called estra dial and it's the combination and the
Speaker 3: level of the of the three. CBD is thought to
Speaker 3: be safe. Again, there's no real research out there about
Speaker 3: what it helps with arthritis, it helps with with anxiety.
Speaker 3: A lot of people think that both of those it helps, uh,
Speaker 3: but there's no research out there, but it's it's thought
Speaker 3: to be very very safe and certainly not intoxicating with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as far as long term effects have have
Speaker 2: we been able to study that? As someone on another
Speaker 2: country menial to do that, what do we know about it?
Speaker 3: I don't think there's any any studies of above long
Speaker 3: term effects on with with CBD.
Speaker 2: I do know this as a parent, I wouldn't want
Speaker 2: my adolescent to get it. I wouldn't want my kid
Speaker 2: using it now. If they decided when they become adults
Speaker 2: to engage in the use of alcohol or things like this,
Speaker 2: that's a different matter entirely. We we don't know. Do
Speaker 2: we have any idea what the effect might be on
Speaker 2: kids in the developing mind.
Speaker 3: We certainly the THC is very bad for the developing mind.
Speaker 3: You know, mind really doesn't fully develop till you're about
Speaker 3: twenty five, So we know that's bad. That we have
Speaker 3: no research really on any CBD, but it's thought to
Speaker 3: be okay, but we have no research.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we know like heavy cannabis users, teenagers
Speaker 2: use it, their sleep problems possibly and things that persist
Speaker 2: later in life. Same for pregnant women. But you know,
Speaker 2: if you're a heavy teen user or a heavy user
Speaker 2: of anything in genier normally. And this is what I
Speaker 2: hate to see when we talk about prohibition and bands,
Speaker 2: is that you know, we're scaring people with a very
Speaker 2: very small percentage of folks who abuse it. Now that
Speaker 2: could be a kid, it could also be an adult too.
Speaker 2: So you look at the extreme and say, this is
Speaker 2: why I should you should ban it because there's sleep
Speaker 2: problems and it could cause pregnancy issues and it could
Speaker 2: develop the problems in your kid. Okay, but that's that's
Speaker 2: like a fraction of one percent of the users. Most
Speaker 2: people are adults just trying to either feel better about
Speaker 2: their situation in life, do a little chemical yoga, if
Speaker 2: you will, Steve Hoffman, or use it to alleviate pains
Speaker 2: instead of using opioids. And we've had this now prohibition
Speaker 2: extending far too long. I think we've got to be
Speaker 2: a little bit more friendly when it comes this I
Speaker 2: hope the legislature, and this would be the House, decides
Speaker 2: to get up, look at your proposal and say, all right, fine,
Speaker 2: we can't punish businesses who have leaned into making money
Speaker 2: and a growing number of money off of something that
Speaker 2: they were looking the other way on just a few
Speaker 2: days ago, in order to leverage this and say we've
Speaker 2: got to protect it's about the children. Every time someone
Speaker 2: tells me it's about the children. As elected official, I
Speaker 2: do a side eye to them. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I don't disagree with you. I do believe, as always,
Speaker 3: I believe that Governor de Wine is well meaning. Maybe
Speaker 3: we don't agree with the tactic that he took with
Speaker 3: the emergency order, but I truly believe that everything that
Speaker 3: he does is well meaning and partecularly for the children. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's doing this because he's horrible out
Speaker 2: of time. I just I hate the way he worded
Speaker 2: it to sell it. I don't know why I just
Speaker 2: would go, I'm doing this because the legislature won't do
Speaker 2: their job. I mean, you know, you're all on the
Speaker 2: same side of the aisle pretty much. I don't understand
Speaker 2: why you can't call out your own people. Nonetheless, State
Speaker 2: Senator Steve Huffman, what do you think happens next and
Speaker 2: how soon before this thing gets resolved?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 3: You know, the Speaker has said that he hopes we
Speaker 3: can do something by Thanksgiving, and I think it brings
Speaker 3: people to the table and say, you know what, what's
Speaker 3: a good compromise. The ultimate goal is to get this
Speaker 3: out of the hand that children, make it safe with
Speaker 3: some regulation, but still keep the products on the on
Speaker 3: the street.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what you've been talking about. So
Speaker 3: I think sometime here by the end of the by Thanksgiving,
Speaker 3: I think we can.
Speaker 5: Work something out.
Speaker 2: He is Senator, State Senator Steve Huffman from just a
Speaker 2: tipp City, if just north of Dayton. Thanks again, Senator,
Speaker 2: always appreciate your insight in your thoughtful prose on the show.
Speaker 3: Good thanks for having me you take care.
Speaker 2: Take care. I appreciate it. And you know, here's the
Speaker 2: problem with this, all this stupid political fighting. We've got
Speaker 2: the federal government to shut down for good reasons God
Speaker 2: only knows why. Well, we need healthcare. Well, you're subsidizing
Speaker 2: something that's if you didn't subsidize it, the exposure is
Speaker 2: like healthcare is broken. Let's fix that. Let's all get
Speaker 2: to get No, we've got to shut the government down.
Speaker 2: And now we're not going to pay soldiers. But we're
Speaker 2: gonna pay soldiers because that's a bad look for us.
Speaker 2: And it's I don't care who you blame, the Democrats, Republics,
Speaker 2: not blame them all. They all have skin in the game.
Speaker 2: They're all at fault. It doesn't matter who. We're blind
Speaker 2: so they want they wanted to blame one side or
Speaker 2: the other. We blame the whole system for blame us
Speaker 2: for allowing us to the thing to occur. Now you
Speaker 2: look at the state level, something we control a little
Speaker 2: bit better, because the more locally get the more control
Speaker 2: you have as a voter, as a constituent. Not a
Speaker 2: lot of this is going Hold on just a second.
Speaker 2: The state, well, legislature, both sides, and the executive branch
Speaker 2: controlled by Republicans, and it's been that way for a
Speaker 2: long time. And you mean to tell me that you
Speaker 2: can't get this done without punishing good law abiding god
Speaker 2: fear in tax paying moms and dads, grandmas and grandpas,
Speaker 2: aunts and uncles, brothers and sisters. I'm not talking about
Speaker 2: the kids because the many of you start going, we
Speaker 2: got to save the children. That's how a pout the
Speaker 2: children and ain't about the children, It's about your political bs.
Speaker 2: How is it we have Republicans that largely can you know,
Speaker 2: whip and control each other. That's why they call you,
Speaker 2: you know, minority whippings in this case the majority. And
Speaker 2: we've got to basically shut down something that's functioning, something
Speaker 2: that men and women enjoy with impunity and a growing
Speaker 2: number of people are discovering is a wonderful thing, and
Speaker 2: that would be these delta E T CBD infused beverages.
Speaker 2: And we have a whole industry that's growing. You know,
Speaker 2: we worry about job loss and things closing, and you know,
Speaker 2: is it over for this because a at least in
Speaker 2: the you know, the food and beverage sector, we know
Speaker 2: that people are demanding more of these beverages. It's literally
Speaker 2: keeping alive a lout of our micro breweries. Yeah, Bobby
Speaker 2: Slattery was on the show on Friday. He called in
Speaker 2: he's the founder of fifty Wess and said this is
Speaker 2: saving us because right now beer sales people aren't drinking
Speaker 2: beer like they used to. The craft beer thing now
Speaker 2: it's about the CBD infused beverages, which we're getting a
Speaker 2: huge market.
Speaker 5: See.
Speaker 2: So the end result is they've got all this product
Speaker 2: that they've got to sell at a discount because they
Speaker 2: don't want to go bad and try and cover some
Speaker 2: of their costs and then stop making it for ninety
Speaker 2: days because the legislature, the Republican legislature, can't get out
Speaker 2: of there on the way. How hard is it to
Speaker 2: come up with something and go, let's fix this problem.
Speaker 2: If you're an adult, you can buy the beverage as
Speaker 2: long as they're selling to their retailer or a place
Speaker 2: that has a liquor license. It's an easy fix. But
Speaker 2: instead we get, well, we got to do we got
Speaker 2: to ban this to protect the children. That's stupid. Scott's
Speaker 2: Flown show seven hundred WW it's got a we're in Bengals,
Speaker 2: who's there four straight yesterday? But it felt like a
Speaker 2: better loss? Does that make any sense? It doesn't, but
Speaker 2: it does if you're a Bengal fan. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm talking about. More in that later in the show.
Speaker 2: Scott's Sloan Back with you on seven hundred WOLW State Centers.
Speaker 2: Steve Hoffman on a few minutes ago, kind of laying
Speaker 2: things out where things stand with the CBD band and
Speaker 2: how many people does this affect? Seems like a growing number.
Speaker 2: We're out. I was out this weekend, rolling out on
Speaker 2: my knee scooter and stopped in a place and the
Speaker 2: conversation with the bar turn It's like, yeah, we we
Speaker 2: we Literally I've never seen any product come along as
Speaker 2: the takeover as quickly as the infused selters have, so, well,
Speaker 2: what's the plan with it going away? It's like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, we're going to sell the stuff we can
Speaker 2: right now, and it's going to be a tough couple
Speaker 2: of months until I figured this thing out. So I
Speaker 2: feel for the retails, the producers. I mean, think about it.
Speaker 2: You just can't wake up one day. Okay, we've got
Speaker 2: the supply. Now you got to order the you know,
Speaker 2: there's there's things you have to order, the flavorings, the
Speaker 2: ingredients in there, and then you make the product and
Speaker 2: it's got a short shelf life. It's not like you
Speaker 2: can just hold all these barrels in reserve. It's not
Speaker 2: like whiskey, where the longer sits at age is it's better.
Speaker 2: It's not the case at all, So I just wonder
Speaker 2: what these these retailers and specifically these companies that manufacture
Speaker 2: what they're going to wind up doing, uh in the
Speaker 2: interim to like get this thing figured out. And if
Speaker 2: you look at the economy, you know, certainly the statistics
Speaker 2: are much different than the fields. You don't want to
Speaker 2: see anything going, especially something in demand like that. Hey,
Speaker 2: real quick on the on the topic Tom in Indiana
Speaker 2: and the Scott Floans Show.
Speaker 6: Good morning, Good morning, How are you Scott?
Speaker 2: Well, how are you doing?
Speaker 4: I'm going to listen your senator you just had on now.
Speaker 4: Granted I understand this is an Ohio thing that I
Speaker 4: have family in Ohio. He is either very ignorant of
Speaker 4: the real fact about research on medical marijuana and marijuana
Speaker 4: you period, because in a two seconds search I found
Speaker 4: about forty articles places like Yale and the CDC and
Speaker 4: the Nationalists, TOUE of Health and all kinds of places.
Speaker 4: There is tons of research on this. So he's either
Speaker 4: ignorant or he's telling something.
Speaker 2: Well, a couple of different things. You looked at marijuana,
Speaker 2: but we're talking specifically about CBD. For a long time,
Speaker 2: marijuana wasn't research that. Yeah, Yeah, what I'm saying is
Speaker 2: the law related. So what I'm saying is the long
Speaker 2: term research, and we don't have because it's all, I say,
Speaker 2: relatively new thing. HEMP spent around for a long time,
Speaker 2: and because of the laws the way they are it,
Speaker 2: we don't have as much long term data on well,
Speaker 2: for example, fight products because it's a reletively new thing.
Speaker 2: And then the delta eight along with that.
Speaker 4: True, but you heard him say it. They want to
Speaker 4: put this into the centuries. Why because the state doesn't
Speaker 4: want any competition. It's like just like distilled spirits. You know,
Speaker 4: you can't distill your own spirits because the government doesn't
Speaker 4: want competition.
Speaker 2: They want the tax mon correct, yeah you can't. You
Speaker 2: can make your own beer. But in some areas they're
Speaker 2: actually trying to crack down. They're trying to crack down
Speaker 2: people making their own homebrew for crying out loud, and
Speaker 2: that's like, what are we doing here is simply to
Speaker 2: con ole revenue. I think that I think that drives
Speaker 2: a part of this. I really do.
Speaker 4: Oh, I think it drives a great part of it.
Speaker 4: You know, if you leave anything in the Bible shows,
Speaker 4: you know, the Bible shows that the love of money
Speaker 4: is the root of all people. Well, you know, I
Speaker 4: think the government loves money, you know, because they want
Speaker 4: all of ours. They don't want anybody to make any
Speaker 4: extra without them getting their cut.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that may drive I just don't see. I don't
Speaker 2: think it's it's practical for if I want a I
Speaker 2: don't know, a seltzer to go to a CBD place
Speaker 2: and buy it, because people aren't thinking that way. It's
Speaker 2: more like, oh, i'm i'm I'm sending here, I'm looking.
Speaker 2: I've got all these beer products and alcohol. I may
Speaker 2: try this flavor. It's not like you're going to go
Speaker 2: in there deliberately. It's just and if you want to
Speaker 2: destroy the whole industry, just do that. That's what they'll do,
Speaker 2: is just have it available only in the dispensary. No
Speaker 2: one's going to go into dispensary to buy these products
Speaker 2: like they would in the liquor store or somewhere else.
Speaker 2: It's just it's not gonna work that way.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: And an adult, I appreciate.
Speaker 2: Your thanks, Tom, appreciate you. You know, adults want to
Speaker 2: go in you go to a bar, so okay, I
Speaker 2: can have whiskey, I can have beer, I can have
Speaker 2: light beer. I can have all these different I can
Speaker 2: have one with higher alcohol. You go into places and
Speaker 2: they tell you what the ABV is, right. You know
Speaker 2: that Kentucky barrele al, that's that they sit seut in
Speaker 2: a little glass because that's stuff potent. That's like two
Speaker 2: beers and other stuff like mic ultra. You know, it's
Speaker 2: closer to water. I enjoy mic culture like your golfing
Speaker 2: or something like that. That's fine, but you know it's
Speaker 2: low calorie, but it's also a little good alcol by volume.
Speaker 2: It depends what you're looking to do. I don't understand
Speaker 2: why this is such a big deal when it comes
Speaker 2: to to THHC. You know the idea that you know, Senra,
Speaker 2: Back in the sixties, the weed that we had was
Speaker 2: MutS of less potent th the weed today. Yeah, that's
Speaker 2: a good thing. That means we do have technology learning
Speaker 2: how to do things like hybrids for example, and growing
Speaker 2: and normally in every other area, go wow, we're getting
Speaker 2: way more yield, much more yield than we did yesterday.
Speaker 2: In America anywhere we celebrate that. And there's still some
Speaker 2: people that we'll talk about it is it's like it's
Speaker 2: a bad wow. You just well, you can't overdose on it,
Speaker 2: you just so you'll use less and get justice high.
Speaker 2: That seems like it's value to me, right, it's the
Speaker 2: American way as well. If we have a little bit
Speaker 2: of it, let's do more of it. And only when
Speaker 2: it comes to these guys, it's like a different story
Speaker 2: entirely the and not talking about Steve, but rather the
Speaker 2: the in this case, it's the House. And so Mike
Speaker 2: de Wine is trying to leverage and using this power
Speaker 2: to shut everything down, to force the UH, to force
Speaker 2: the House to do something and act on this. And
Speaker 2: you know, again we have I don't know why they're
Speaker 2: dragging their feet on it.
Speaker 5: I have.
Speaker 2: I would imagine if I were to guess, it has
Speaker 2: somewhat to do with the Bible thumpers and that contingent
Speaker 2: that that that portion of the conservative base that don't
Speaker 2: like anything. I mean, if we're up to them to
Speaker 2: run things, it would be not much much different than
Speaker 2: probably what we're fighting against in the Middle East, and
Speaker 2: that would be you just simply aren't allowed to have
Speaker 2: any fun because God doesn't want that. I don't know
Speaker 2: who you are to interpret what God says, but we
Speaker 2: have an people to believe that, and I don't understand
Speaker 2: why you have to control the rest of us. It
Speaker 2: seems to me, if you don't want to go and
Speaker 2: use alcohol, you don't want to drink alcohol, you don't
Speaker 2: want to smoke marijuana, you don't want to have a
Speaker 2: CBD drink, you don't want to I don't know where
Speaker 2: a dress that doesn't cover your ankle, whatever the hell
Speaker 2: it is. It seems like, Okay, well you do that.
Speaker 2: That good for you. I celebrate your right to do that,
Speaker 2: but don't tell me what to do. And that's the problem.
Speaker 2: Busybodies generally the problem busy bodies to vote even worse
Speaker 2: of a problem solo only A five point three seven
Speaker 2: four nine seven thousand, eight hundred the Big One talk
Speaker 2: back iHeartRadio app. You want to fire on the show
Speaker 2: this morning? Where are you on fragrances. I know there's
Speaker 2: a difference, but I think between like old spice, I
Speaker 2: don't really consider that a fragrance, like body washes and stuff.
Speaker 2: I'm talking about perfume. There's a fine line between smelling
Speaker 2: nice and clean and clearing out a room them It's
Speaker 2: a fine line, just a fine line. Perfume ads when
Speaker 2: you watch if you step back and watch the fragrance ads,
Speaker 2: I don't know who they're designed to appeal. For a
Speaker 2: long time, I have no idea. I was like, who
Speaker 2: is that appealing to? Exactly? If you just watch the end,
Speaker 2: because generally it's like some I don't know, bony women,
Speaker 2: effeminate men laying atop boulders and the beaches on fire,
Speaker 2: and I have no idea. What do you who's buying
Speaker 2: this stuff? I look at it, go wow, that's the stuff.
Speaker 2: For me, it's just weird. And I guess it's because
Speaker 2: it's awfully hard to articulate in the words, what something
Speaker 2: smells like, So you do it by something that makes
Speaker 2: you go, boy, if I use any of these products,
Speaker 2: that makes me a weirdo. Yeah, countless people do. Look
Speaker 2: at the echo, what you what are you doing here?
Speaker 2: So in a way, it's kind of like the prescription
Speaker 2: drug ads. I can't tell you what it does, but
Speaker 2: the list of side effects is as long as the
Speaker 2: ad itself. It's fifteen seconds to people dancing, you know,
Speaker 2: in a square, and they're in a food truck and
Speaker 2: they're dancing around. They seem awfully happy and singing about
Speaker 2: this miracle product.
Speaker 5: That.
Speaker 2: I have no idea what it's intended to cure, but
Speaker 2: I'm supposed to ask my physician if it's right for me.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Okay, I can't remember the name of this.
Speaker 2: I don't know what this is. Hey, is that you
Speaker 2: know that ad where that heavy set woman's dancing around
Speaker 2: and there's a tuba player and then there's some old
Speaker 2: guy throwing a football and they're having a picnic that
Speaker 2: you know, you know that, you know that? Is that
Speaker 2: right for me? I have no idea what you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Every one of the pharmaschool AADs look like that, Scott. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'm supposed to ask you if it's right for me.
Speaker 2: They won't tell me what it does, but is it
Speaker 2: right for me? It's another weird ad. But the perfume
Speaker 2: ads are the ones that, like, I don't know why
Speaker 2: people are is this really attracting people to go by
Speaker 2: this perfume? They're just so also just so weird, like
Speaker 2: the perfume mad people are weird people. But now we
Speaker 2: have a breakthrough the fragrance industry. We have the hottest
Speaker 2: new trend. I'm waiting for the maybe the state legislature.
Speaker 2: I know how to ban this because people want it.
Speaker 2: Sense that smell like food not ever. Always kind of
Speaker 2: been around, but apparently it's like the huge thing right now.
Speaker 2: People wanting to smell like vanilla or pumpkin spice. Caramel
Speaker 2: swirl is a new scent. It's a mashup of notes
Speaker 2: that remind them of Missus Butterworth's syrup. That may be
Speaker 2: okay maybe in the winter, but I think this time
Speaker 2: of year where the yellowjackets and bees are doing what
Speaker 2: they getting ready to winter in, maybe that's not the best,
Speaker 2: not the best thing to wear if you're headed outside.
Speaker 2: Dove is partnering with Crumble Cookies on a lemon glazed
Speaker 2: body scrub, a confetti cake, a body washed Dunkin Donuts
Speaker 2: with a vanilla sprinkled deodorant, and a blueberry cobbler, Boston
Speaker 2: Cream mashup, Beth and Bodyworks and Milk Bar launching a
Speaker 2: collapse together. And you know, to me is a guy
Speaker 2: that to me is a long time. It's much more
Speaker 2: appealing than the weirdo is rolling around on boulders. Yeah,
Speaker 2: if the idea hears, Hey, I want to smell really
Speaker 2: good and maybe somebody knows how I smell and we've
Speaker 2: become a getting a relationship, become attracted to each other,
Speaker 2: we become a couple, become a thing. And maybe you
Speaker 2: know that just down one whiff will get me gone
Speaker 2: if you really wanted to do that, just somebody would
Speaker 2: make a I don't know, a perfume that smelled like
Speaker 2: a pizza or I don't know, like b dubs or
Speaker 2: something like that like that would really think a guy'd go,
Speaker 2: all right, she's cool. Yeah, and like that to me
Speaker 2: sounds like okay, it's smell. You smelled delicious, Like telling
Speaker 2: someone they smell delicious. It is a much much better compliment,
Speaker 2: like you're getting your attention because you smell like lilacs
Speaker 2: or something like that. The whole perfume thing, it's like
Speaker 2: you have a little bit and you smell okay, you
Speaker 2: smell okay, But man, there's a finally you just don't
Speaker 2: need much more to go across that line, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about. There people will come in and
Speaker 2: literally will set the smoke detectors off because they're wearing
Speaker 2: so much perfume like their olo factory senses. I don't
Speaker 2: know what happened to you if you're snorting acid when
Speaker 2: you're like talking about like hydrochloric acid when you're younger.
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure. But then there's those people. I
Speaker 2: don't think I'd ever have that problem if you smell,
Speaker 2: because you would never smell like too much pizza. If
Speaker 2: you had that kind of fragrance, you could douse yourself
Speaker 2: in the whole bottle and go. You'd walk in a run.
Speaker 2: People go, wow, who brought pizza? Nope, just my scent.
Speaker 2: Same at the syrup, like syrup smells really good. Some
Speaker 2: of these weird. If you go to like the holidays
Speaker 2: once a year, I have to go Christmas shopping. Only
Speaker 2: time I go to the mall and you walk into
Speaker 2: Dillar's or something out of the perfume counter there, I
Speaker 2: not have to hold my breath for a good thirty
Speaker 2: forty seconds because it will just knock me to my
Speaker 2: knees because you have all these competing senses and it's
Speaker 2: just too much. It's overload. Yet I walk in the
Speaker 2: food court, I never want to leave. It's the difference.
Speaker 2: Quick time out. We've got news in about that ten
Speaker 2: and when a return to the show on seven hundred WLW,
Speaker 2: I've got Chris Nihis on he's the CEO of Cincinnati
Speaker 2: Vigilance Cybersecurity. I don't know if you saw it last
Speaker 2: night after football sixty Minutes and it was think it
Speaker 2: was Leslie's stall or whatever it was. Maybe was Scott Paley,
Speaker 2: I don't know, one of the sixty minutes people. They
Speaker 2: had a great story opening story about how China has
Speaker 2: infiltrated our critical infrastructure and the wake up call for us.
Speaker 2: And we've been talking about this for a while, but
Speaker 2: there were at least two hundred examples, two hundred cases
Speaker 2: where the Chinese have infiltrated things like our water treatment plants,
Speaker 2: our electrical grids, transportation, hospitals, tallcom stuff like that. And
Speaker 2: the information coming out is pretty sobering. And what they're
Speaker 2: doing specifically, I mean, they're not hacking in and shutting
Speaker 2: systems down. They're lying dormant. They have the access to
Speaker 2: these systems, two hundred of them, which tells me if
Speaker 2: you found two hundred, how many are out there that
Speaker 2: we haven't found and they literally could shut things down. Now,
Speaker 2: the question is where in Cincinnatif there's two hundred of
Speaker 2: them or more, you think there's got to be one
Speaker 2: near us? I mean, which small municipality is now infiltrated
Speaker 2: by Chinese spyware that they can use against us if
Speaker 2: they need to, and a coordinated tac for that matter.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's frightening as hell. It was one of
Speaker 2: the better things I think I've seen this year relative
Speaker 2: to a nice piece of investigative journalism. Is we've heard
Speaker 2: about that we've talked about and say, yeah, there's a
Speaker 2: couple of cases here. I mean, you know, somebody gets
Speaker 2: in cattering health for example, just a few months ago
Speaker 2: they had their issues, and it seems like every couple
Speaker 2: of months there's one locally that this happens. But that's
Speaker 2: just a bad state act. That's that's maybe not a
Speaker 2: state act or maybe state sponsored, but someone just trying
Speaker 2: to hold them hostage for money. This is a whole
Speaker 2: different matter entirely. This is like national security and literally
Speaker 2: shutting us down and our ability to function. Imagine what
Speaker 2: it would happen if they could shut the water supply
Speaker 2: now or poison our water because there's chemicals that treat
Speaker 2: our water in small quantities, but in higher doses could
Speaker 2: be fatal and we wouldn't know it until well was
Speaker 2: actually happening. Absolutely fascinatingway. Chris na has is on that
Speaker 2: to talk about the real threat here and what's next
Speaker 2: and now, if we detected this stuff, how do we
Speaker 2: act against China? And maybe one of the other questions
Speaker 2: here too is you know, if China's doing that to us,
Speaker 2: are we doing that to China or other countries? Any
Speaker 2: answers probably yes, probably, yes, we'll get a time out
Speaker 2: in we'll talk to him about this. If you didn't
Speaker 2: see it last night, it certainly is compelling. And of
Speaker 2: course President Trump is making the rounds I think in
Speaker 2: Egypt now or is about that to Egypt, is about
Speaker 2: to arrive there talking about the success of the Abraham
Speaker 2: Accords and what just happened between Palestine and Israel and
Speaker 2: can we have lasting peace? And how long will be
Speaker 2: before the United States is what we always do and
Speaker 2: just simply forget about them and find something other shiny
Speaker 2: ball or tennis ball to chase down the hall like
Speaker 2: a golden retriever with add and ignore this and let
Speaker 2: it all fall apart. We were really good, regardless the
Speaker 2: administration at the time. We have a history of doing
Speaker 2: these things. We'll get peace, We'll fight for it, fight
Speaker 2: like dogs. We'll broker, we'll get all that good and
Speaker 2: then we'll simply walk away, and then it all falls
Speaker 2: apart and we do it over and over and over again. Anyway,
Speaker 2: we got to get the news, and hopefully this is
Speaker 2: a piece that lasts much much longer than even pragmatists
Speaker 2: like myself sick hope it lasts forever. It would be
Speaker 2: a nice thing, wouldn't it the very least, And even
Speaker 2: a suspension of this the killing, it's kind of refreshing
Speaker 2: considering what's happened for the last two years. We'll do
Speaker 2: news and more to follow slowly with you on this
Speaker 2: Monday morning home of the best Bengals coverage seven hundred
Speaker 2: ww sincenty.
Speaker 1: You want to be an American?
Speaker 4: Go builds?
Speaker 2: Need one to night? Do you see Lost on Saturday?
Speaker 2: Or one on Saturday? The loss today on the Loss,
Speaker 2: of course, is Jim Kelly Junior passing away at seventy two.
Speaker 2: I've been fighting cancer a long time. I was enjoyed
Speaker 2: listening to Jim along with Dan Horde for what the
Speaker 2: last twenty years as the color analyst for the UC Bearcats,
Speaker 2: and just so sad to hear because he's such a
Speaker 2: good guy. But our thoughts in pairs with the Jim
Speaker 2: and his family, everyone in the in the Bearcat family
Speaker 2: as well. Sloane here on seven hundred WLW. If you
Speaker 2: watch the Bengals last night, lose, but lose in a
Speaker 2: better way. Typically what you do is you hang on
Speaker 2: for a minute before you cut over to NBC and
Speaker 2: watch our boy talk about well last night's gale. I
Speaker 2: didn't say I've watched the whole thing in Kansas City
Speaker 2: wind up winning last night, But you watch sixty minutes
Speaker 2: on CBS and you always catch like the first couple
Speaker 2: of minutes. I thought last night they had a fascinating
Speaker 2: story on about China our front of me. China has
Speaker 2: infiltrated some two hundred critical infrastructure operations in the US.
Speaker 2: Water treatment plants, electrical grids, transportation, hospitals, telecommunications. Pretty scary
Speaker 2: stuff that the incursions, these intrusions have been going on
Speaker 2: for a while now and we haven't done anything about it.
Speaker 2: Why because we're getting intel on what the Chinese may
Speaker 2: or may not do as they can control some of
Speaker 2: our critical infrastructure. We've talked about this before, but I
Speaker 2: think when you start to hear two hundred or more
Speaker 2: facilities in America could be under Chinese control in a
Speaker 2: couple of keystrokes. That is a huge wake up call,
Speaker 2: going what if they're doing this on sixty minutes? We
Speaker 2: know the government's known about it for a while, and
Speaker 2: we're allowing this to continue. And what happens in the
Speaker 2: future on that is that Chris naiheis. Chris is the
Speaker 2: CEO of Vigilant Cybersecurity here in Cincinnati. Chris, welcome back, are.
Speaker 5: You, Hank Scott?
Speaker 2: I'm doing great one. I'm well un till I saw
Speaker 2: this thing last night after football the Bengals loss. I'm like, well, wait,
Speaker 2: what's going on here? So the idea here is that
Speaker 2: China is lying dormant in two hundred these things. And
Speaker 2: I think it was like a small some small town
Speaker 2: in Massachusets. I forget where that it turned out. The
Speaker 2: FBI shows up and tells the operator, the guy who's
Speaker 2: in charge of it, Hey, listen, the Chinese have taken
Speaker 2: control of your facility. You don't know that, but the
Speaker 2: Chinese have digital control of your facility. So we know
Speaker 2: that everything now is plug and play and it's the
Speaker 2: Internet of things, and everything is controlled remotely in electronics.
Speaker 2: And so before we branch off into what they're doing
Speaker 2: and how they're doing it. A water treatment plant. What
Speaker 2: could go wrong if the computers are under control of
Speaker 2: the Chinese and a water treatment.
Speaker 7: Plant right sis the Littleton, Massachusetts, and a lot can
Speaker 7: go wrong. Actually, I mean inside these water treatment plants,
Speaker 7: you have different vats of chemicals. Those chemicals are mixed
Speaker 7: together in different varying levels. You have fluoride, you have
Speaker 7: all kinds of different things in there, chlorine, Those are
Speaker 7: mixed together very precisely to make sure that the water
Speaker 7: that we drink is clean, purified, it's refreshed.
Speaker 5: When it gets to us.
Speaker 7: If those systems, or the chemical interactions or even just
Speaker 7: the mounts the measurements are put into water different only
Speaker 7: it could be catastrophic. It can make our water undrinkable, penable,
Speaker 7: It could be it could make poisonous.
Speaker 5: Uh, there's there's a lot of.
Speaker 7: Different things that can happen inside a water treatment plant.
Speaker 2: And that's just a small time. But imagine the masses
Speaker 2: steria of a town of I don't know if that
Speaker 2: ten twenty thousand people, If all of a sudden, your
Speaker 2: water's poisonous, and we would know it because they program
Speaker 2: everything to make it look like the tests are fine.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they do physical manual tests and
Speaker 2: how often they do that, I don't know the workings
Speaker 2: of water treatment. Plow would think so that somebody's going,
Speaker 2: hey there's something with the right but it'd be too
Speaker 2: late for some people who are drinking poison water.
Speaker 5: That would be way too late.
Speaker 7: And then the problem with the two is, I mean,
Speaker 7: if you look at the way water works. We pump
Speaker 7: water into our water towers, that creates the water pressure
Speaker 7: into our cities, but you have the entire system would
Speaker 7: be contaminated, and you know, it just makes even if
Speaker 7: even if no one drank it, even if the system
Speaker 7: was contaminated, you have you have a major problem. And
Speaker 7: to your point, you know they're doing so much automation.
Speaker 7: Now you know all all of the chemical you know,
Speaker 7: you know the chemical measurements, the purification, it's all it's
Speaker 7: all automated. The testing is mostly automated. They do spot
Speaker 7: checks and things like that, but there's sensors throughout the
Speaker 7: entire line that determine temperature. It determines if there's a
Speaker 7: different chemicals. I mean, you've even seen recently where they
Speaker 7: can see if COVID is spiking up inside you know,
Speaker 7: different cities because of what's coming in to waste treatment plants.
Speaker 7: So there's there's a lot of different sensors there, but
Speaker 7: like you said, those sensors can be modified so that
Speaker 7: that way it gives incorrect information and then people don't know.
Speaker 7: You know, the monitors aren't going to trigger off.
Speaker 2: It's something you can make boiling water look like it's
Speaker 2: freezing water based on what the what the sensors are on,
Speaker 2: to reprogram all that stuff, and no one to know
Speaker 2: until it's all sadly too late and you got to
Speaker 2: shut it and down and figure out what's happening. And
Speaker 2: that's just in one small town in Massachusetts, and then
Speaker 2: there's at least one hundred and ninety nine others and
Speaker 2: other water treatment plants, but electrical goods, transportation, hospitals, all
Speaker 2: these things I mentioned. And what's interesting about it is
Speaker 2: or they said, there's about two hundred that they've identified
Speaker 2: since twenty twenty three. I suspect, like anything, the two
Speaker 2: hundred the most obvious ones. How many more do you
Speaker 2: think I are out there?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: I would say in every critical city.
Speaker 7: We work a lot in critical infrastructure a lot of
Speaker 7: my background is in critical infrastructure, and you know, even
Speaker 7: back in the early two thousands, I was working with
Speaker 7: COMMONI control systems and you could see that those systems
Speaker 7: were trying to be attacked. And I would say that
Speaker 7: was my wake up call, that you know, wake up call,
Speaker 7: But it was the moment I realized how evil this
Speaker 7: could be because in those situations, what we were seeing
Speaker 7: is someone attacking back then or Windows ninety five systems,
Speaker 7: and they were attacking these really old operating system It was,
Speaker 7: you know, not old at the time, but these systems
Speaker 7: were connected to these valves that could you know, from
Speaker 7: the system, you could open a valve and it would
Speaker 7: be a release valve. You could release ammonia or pneumonia
Speaker 7: actually can melt people's lungs.
Speaker 2: So you know, when I saw that happen, like whoa
Speaker 2: wait a second.
Speaker 7: And that's what really made me get into this industry
Speaker 7: because for me, it's about making sure that we protect
Speaker 7: the United States right, and one of the things we
Speaker 7: have to be really aware of is that we're not
Speaker 7: doing a great job of it because.
Speaker 2: They're everywhere so well. The problem is this right we
Speaker 2: have decentralized unlike China, everything's centralized in China. Here it's decentralized.
Speaker 2: So you've got small municipalities, and I'm guessing that a
Speaker 2: lot of these two hundred chris are small municipalities that
Speaker 2: don't have the budget. And you know, fifty grand to
Speaker 2: them may not be a lot to the state of
Speaker 2: Ohio or the United States of America, but fifty grand
Speaker 2: to a small community is a lot of money. That's
Speaker 2: what costs us one small town to redo all their
Speaker 2: infrastructure to essentially make what the Chinese did moot. And
Speaker 2: on top of that, you know, paying for new equipment
Speaker 2: and getting taxpayers to fut the money for the latest
Speaker 2: and greatest servers and technology isn't always an easy sell.
Speaker 2: People don't make that connection until well, it's too late.
Speaker 2: We don't want to spend that time. Why are we
Speaker 2: spending more money. We just updated these computers and our
Speaker 2: systems have been updated, and we don't need to do
Speaker 2: that anywhere. Why are we spending so much on people like,
Speaker 2: for example, the contract with vigil and cybersecurity. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's a huge cost item right there, and so we
Speaker 2: tend to cut away all of that help and all
Speaker 2: those people in safety Net and then something like this
Speaker 2: happens and we want more of it.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 7: Well, see, here's the problem is that you and I'll
Speaker 7: make some bold statements here. You know, we talked about
Speaker 7: before you got to wonder you know why. You know,
Speaker 7: like the average time it takes to detect the threat.
Speaker 7: You know, Briising comes up with report every year. It's
Speaker 7: a great report. But the average time it takes the
Speaker 7: detective threat today someone comes into your environment. The average
Speaker 7: time it takes for most cybersecurity technologies, right, this is
Speaker 7: the average, right, two and eighty seven days.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 7: And so the biggest problem is that a lot of
Speaker 7: companies are buying technology that seems to work because it's
Speaker 7: a brand name, we're a big no name, but it
Speaker 7: doesn't actually do what it's supposed to. And so you
Speaker 7: end up with the attackers and these environments that are
Speaker 7: there forever, and what they really want to do in
Speaker 7: any warfare scenario is they want persistence. So what happens
Speaker 7: is these attackers come in, they trigger an event so
Speaker 7: that your security systems see it, you go do an
Speaker 7: instant response. But what they're really doing is they're embedding
Speaker 7: themselves per persistence for later while they're triggering a fake incident,
Speaker 7: right or a real incident that you go work. The
Speaker 7: second problem is that companies use their security technologies that
Speaker 7: they use as badges, and the security companies that work
Speaker 7: with them.
Speaker 5: Also use them as badges.
Speaker 7: So what I mean by that is, you know, they'll
Speaker 7: put their logos up on their website, they'll you know,
Speaker 7: the security providers will do that. So that tells you
Speaker 7: the hacker exactly what technology is used. And then the
Speaker 7: third thing that happens, especially in these municipalities, is when
Speaker 7: they're buying things, they're buying things under committee or approval
Speaker 7: with their cities municipalities.
Speaker 2: Because it's and so those are all open meetings, and.
Speaker 7: So if I'm a Chinese threat actor, I can come in,
Speaker 7: I can know exactly I mean, in the state of California,
Speaker 7: you can go out there's a law that.
Speaker 2: Requires them to do list.
Speaker 6: It lists everything.
Speaker 7: Any city, every single technology they buy was from a
Speaker 7: cyber standpoint, is on a list, so they can an
Speaker 7: attacker can easily go to water treatment plant see exactly
Speaker 7: what they use, and they just they just know how
Speaker 7: to attack them. So the you wrap all that up,
Speaker 7: and I think here in the United States, we don't
Speaker 7: understand warfare in the private sector very well. And in
Speaker 7: China they do, and in Russia they do. Outside US
Speaker 7: they do. We just don't understand it here because we
Speaker 7: have US citizens are so comfortable with not interfacing with
Speaker 7: evil right.
Speaker 2: Well, because we are commerce right and small businesses. We're
Speaker 2: we're business people, so we understand that we don't see
Speaker 2: that as you know, the competition, but not in the
Speaker 2: arena that the Chinese do because of that centralization element too.
Speaker 2: And so Chris ninehis is here CEO of vigil and Cybersecurity,
Speaker 2: in the sixty Minutes thing last night that there's some
Speaker 2: two hundred plus critical infrastructure operations. We're talking electrical, we're
Speaker 2: talking water treatment plants and the like that essentially are
Speaker 2: under Chinese control. And so what they did is they've
Speaker 2: infiltrated that infrastructure and now they're just laying dormant. They're
Speaker 2: not shutting it down like some I don't know, if
Speaker 2: you have malware, which we've talked about before in the past,
Speaker 2: right you shut them down cattering health for example, pay
Speaker 2: me my money and I'll open everything back up. Or
Speaker 2: maybe not. Some other actor gets in there and just
Speaker 2: wants to be disruptive and destroy things and shut it
Speaker 2: down and put some sort of political or anti state
Speaker 2: message on whatever it might be. We've seen that this
Speaker 2: is different. They're actually lying in wait. It's like a
Speaker 2: trojan horse. They're watching what you're doing online. They're watching
Speaker 2: the systems that you have in place, and in the
Speaker 2: future if they need to, when they need to, when
Speaker 2: they will, they will strike by doing all the stuff
Speaker 2: we talked about and multiply that by hundreds more. And
Speaker 2: you've got real problems here in America that they're sitting
Speaker 2: there just watching and wait and lying dormant, and our
Speaker 2: own infrastructure and most of us have no idea they're there.
Speaker 7: Yeah, right, And the reason you know, you and you know,
Speaker 7: we don't know all the details of Littleton, but you
Speaker 7: know we spent fifty thousand dollars to rebuild his network.
Speaker 7: I would say he didn't really he may not have
Speaker 7: actually even had to do that if he had the
Speaker 7: ability to see what was what was embedded. As in
Speaker 7: this environment, you don't have to swap out all of
Speaker 7: your systems, but if you don't have the ability to
Speaker 7: see what's there, then you do.
Speaker 2: You have to start all over.
Speaker 7: But the big problem there is he may not know
Speaker 7: how they actually got in, so he may have just
Speaker 7: rebuilt his entire environment. And this happens with a lot
Speaker 7: of companies. I'm not saying that Littleton did this, but
Speaker 7: they'll rebuild their whole environment. They don't know exactly how
Speaker 7: the actor got in, and then they get in again
Speaker 7: and they just wasted all that money.
Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, you know. And yeah, right.
Speaker 7: The other thing too, Scott, that happens and this is
Speaker 7: this happens with a lot of our power generators. A
Speaker 7: lot of does come from China, right, they have a
Speaker 7: better you know, the transformers, things like that, they have
Speaker 7: a year and a half way time to get those
Speaker 7: We've already found you know, when they when those things
Speaker 7: have come in. Not we vigilant, but you know particularly
Speaker 7: but you as government has found that there's malware inside
Speaker 7: those systems already. Right, Uh, just straight out, straight straight
Speaker 7: coming over. So the thing that we we just have
Speaker 7: to be a lot more aware of is that, uh,
Speaker 7: you know, we're going down a path that we have
Speaker 7: all these.
Speaker 2: Back doors in a critical confrastruction.
Speaker 7: Now I'll say this, now we have that as well, right,
Speaker 7: so you know, we do the same thing around the world,
Speaker 7: you know, and we're doing that's so that's what I
Speaker 7: went here, is like, well, we're doing it too, but
Speaker 7: it doesn't make it better.
Speaker 2: No, No, because I guess on our side, Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think for us to be embedded.
Speaker 6: Over there, totally get it.
Speaker 5: We want to.
Speaker 7: It's like an arms race, right, who could be embedded
Speaker 7: the most, because in any case, it's whoever can hit
Speaker 7: the button for right and and there's a couple of
Speaker 7: different things that can take place in that. But the
Speaker 7: big thing is to realize is that you know, this,
Speaker 7: this is a this is the hidden war, and cyber
Speaker 7: warfare has already happened. We're already in that, but you know,
Speaker 7: most of us don't realize it. And in the critical
Speaker 7: infrastructure world or even the you know, the small business,
Speaker 7: medium sized business world in the United States, it makes
Speaker 7: up like eighty percent of our financial distability here in
Speaker 7: the US. And so if you want to take out hospitals,
Speaker 7: go and bed yourself in hospitals. You want to take
Speaker 7: out water, go and bed yourself in water. You want
Speaker 7: to take out the financial sector the United States, go
Speaker 7: after small medium sized businesses that normally don't have the
Speaker 7: protection they need, right, right, And then you just took
Speaker 7: down the entire country.
Speaker 2: And you do it with some keystrokes. You don't fire
Speaker 2: one shot, but you do it remotely via computer. So
Speaker 2: we had two hundred of these infrastructure operations that were
Speaker 2: a compromise orright, and now it's on sixty minutes. And
Speaker 2: I'm guessing that the Chinese have known that We've known
Speaker 2: about this for a while before it gets on sick
Speaker 2: teams for sure.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: So yeah, in the month, in the months that that's happened,
Speaker 2: where our years even where they're exposed that and moved.
Speaker 2: What's that? What's happening right now as we speak? Then
Speaker 2: more of the same, less of the same or a
Speaker 2: different same. Oh, it's more the same.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean it's you know the Yeah, it's just
Speaker 7: it just continues on and inside these environments that's where
Speaker 7: worker happens. We found this was a couple of years back,
Speaker 7: we found a Chinese threature group that bounced through the
Speaker 7: United States UH entity out to another country, right, And
Speaker 7: what they were trying to make it look like is
Speaker 7: that the attack was coming from the United States to
Speaker 7: that other country. So the you know, you have that
Speaker 7: issue as well, is where you know, China will act
Speaker 7: like Russia, russill act like China ran axt right like Russia.
Speaker 7: You know, you're trying to really tie it back to
Speaker 7: whoever is actually really attacking, right, But the big key
Speaker 7: here and you you mentioned as well, you mentioned kettering health. Right,
Speaker 7: We've seen significant aspects where malware is you know, in
Speaker 7: ransomware is used to come into an environment, create a distraction,
Speaker 7: and then allow people to be embedded. And most, like
Speaker 7: I was saying, most security technology out there is built
Speaker 7: to detect things that it knows about, not to always
Speaker 7: detect things that are unknown. So if you can attack
Speaker 7: someone embed yourself in a way that isn't known yet
Speaker 7: or isn't detectable yet.
Speaker 2: You can hide and wait.
Speaker 7: And especially if it's like a you know, in a
Speaker 7: triggered thing that's based on a timer, like maybe that
Speaker 7: connection reaches back out every month or every two months.
Speaker 7: You know, it's a single ping in the midst of
Speaker 7: millions of connections. It's really hard to find. So, you know,
Speaker 7: a lot of the ransomware or malware, those are the
Speaker 7: things like if you're in an organization you've had ransomware
Speaker 7: or malware, just fighting that is not the end of
Speaker 7: your battle. You now have to comb through your infrastructure
Speaker 7: and find out is there a back door that was
Speaker 7: put in during that attack? Because you know, ransomware, like
Speaker 7: I said, is being used a lot. Is just that
Speaker 7: distraction now and you know and also too it's funding terrorism.
Speaker 7: You know, they just put these groups do they come in,
Speaker 7: they do ransomware, they found terrorism, they create a backdoor,
Speaker 7: and now they're embedded h and they'll be to continued
Speaker 7: can and mouse game like this. And in the fear
Speaker 7: of course, is one day if if we are at
Speaker 7: odds and a war with the Chinese or whatever transpire,
Speaker 7: they they can shut down a significant portion of of
Speaker 7: what it is we have our infrastructure.
Speaker 2: And if you tease WI, will they be able to
Speaker 2: execute that plan?
Speaker 7: I mean, I think we're already seeing some of that.
Speaker 7: I think Colonial Pipeline was a good example of that.
Speaker 7: You know a few years ago, and I talked about that.
Speaker 7: You know, there were you know, there's there's inside of
Speaker 7: these pipelines, there's sensors. You can take over the sensors,
Speaker 7: you can heat them up and explode the pipeline. You know,
Speaker 7: like I said earlier, money control system, water water treatment plants.
Speaker 5: I think when we when we see these.
Speaker 7: Isolated attacks, you know, quote unquote isolated attacks, I think
Speaker 7: that those are just tests, right, I think they're hey,
Speaker 7: how far can we go?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 7: I mean we and again you see those things happen
Speaker 7: around the world. I think we do our own tests also,
Speaker 7: you know, uh, you know, but you know, and it's
Speaker 7: just to show each other, Hey, I'm here and I
Speaker 7: can do that. But I think in the United States
Speaker 7: we have to be much more careful and aware that
Speaker 7: just putting the security technology in doesn't mean that it's
Speaker 7: going to find what we're actually looking for. And we
Speaker 7: have to be much more educated as business owners into
Speaker 7: what is really happening in our environments, especially if we
Speaker 7: support companies like a General Electric. You know, if you're
Speaker 7: a city, if you're a community, a business here in
Speaker 7: Cincinnati that supports General Electric, highly likely you're going to
Speaker 7: get attacked before they will, because they'll try to come
Speaker 7: through you to get to them, right ye uh, you know,
Speaker 7: Especially if you're an HVAC company or you're a you know,
Speaker 7: you're you're you're you're you're building plans for them, you know,
Speaker 7: to build out a facility or whatever. Highly likely you're
Speaker 7: you're going to get attacked. If you are a business
Speaker 7: that creates a part for you know, a defense industry
Speaker 7: or for uh parttery gamble, right, that's really critical to
Speaker 7: their system, chances are you're.
Speaker 2: Going to be attacked and and so got it. You
Speaker 2: have to be a lot more hyper aware.
Speaker 5: You know that?
Speaker 8: That what?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So god he's Chris and I Hi, CEO of Sincidate
Speaker 2: based Vigilant Cybersecurity. Go to the CBS or sixty minutes
Speaker 2: so you can watch this whole piece. It really is fascinating,
Speaker 2: uh in how embedded the Chinese air system? Chris, all
Speaker 2: the best, thanks again, thank you, Scott, all right, being well,
Speaker 2: got to get the news running late. Just a few
Speaker 2: minutes away, we got Julie Age Mental Health Monday here next.
Speaker 2: If you're a procrastinator, she's going to be talking about
Speaker 2: you and to you. Just to head on seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 2: Everyone needs help every now and then, and she's here
Speaker 2: to help us get our heads right. This is Mental
Speaker 2: Health Monday with mental health expert Julie Hattershire. I love
Speaker 2: this topic especially you heard of paralysis by analysis, overthinking
Speaker 2: and overthinking and thinking and thinking and thinking and then
Speaker 2: thinking some more and then not doing anything. How do
Speaker 2: you convert that into action from a place of inaction?
Speaker 2: Julie is here. It's Mental Health Monday on the Scott's
Speaker 2: Loan Show on seven hundred WLW. If she's a licensed
Speaker 2: mental health therapist here in Cincinnati and Clifton, and welcome back.
Speaker 2: How's your week? Everything good?
Speaker 9: Hey, everything's great?
Speaker 6: How about you?
Speaker 2: Everything's fine? Thank you? We overthinking things?
Speaker 5: Wait?
Speaker 2: I think do most people tend to be overthinking? It
Speaker 2: seems like very few people are, like Trump, for example,
Speaker 2: watching the motorcade arrive in Egypt for the peace summit,
Speaker 2: and there's a guy who's very decisive, right, we love
Speaker 2: him or hate him. You look at him, go, he's
Speaker 2: gonna make a decision. He's gonna go this is it.
Speaker 2: And even if it's the wrong decision, I'll never admit that.
Speaker 2: He says, I make a decision. I'm moving on to
Speaker 2: something else. Very few people have that ability, don't they?
Speaker 10: Well, And I'm not sure that we would want a
Speaker 10: whole lot of people to be that that decily decisive, right, right?
Speaker 10: We kind of want people who give things some thought
Speaker 10: and some consideration and an appropriate amount of due diligence
Speaker 10: and research. But there are people who tend to be
Speaker 10: more decisive slash impulsive, and people who tend to be
Speaker 10: more conscientious slash overthinkers slash anxious, And that's sort of
Speaker 10: what we're talking about today. I tend to fall on
Speaker 10: the more decisive impulsive end of the spectrum.
Speaker 9: How about you?
Speaker 2: I have no It depends on the day, depends on
Speaker 2: the situation. Like there's some things I want to do,
Speaker 2: it's like long term, but other stuff keep getting in
Speaker 2: the way of me doing that. Or maybe that's an excuse.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I go, well, I got all this
Speaker 2: other I want to do this, this, and this, but
Speaker 2: I haven't done it in a while because I've got
Speaker 2: all this other stuff going on. Well, how do you
Speaker 2: categorize that?
Speaker 10: Well, So, is that being too busy or is that
Speaker 10: getting stuck in a loop inside your head and not
Speaker 10: moving off square one because you're thinking too hard about it?
Speaker 2: Probably probably a lot of Probably a lot of it. Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's busy, but it's like I have an excuse. It's
Speaker 2: cover right, is it not doing something going I don't know.
Speaker 2: I should do this, but I don't know if I
Speaker 2: really want to do it. And maybe that's Also part
Speaker 2: of it too, is just as meaning you know what,
Speaker 2: other than saying no, it's just not right for me,
Speaker 2: you can procrastinate more and pretend to be I'm too
Speaker 2: busy to be decisive.
Speaker 10: Yes, So overthinking can lead to procrastination, and procrastination can
Speaker 10: partly be caused by overthinking. There are other reasons people procrastinate,
Speaker 10: But when we're talking about overthinking, what we're really talking
Speaker 10: about is people who get stuck in this loop inside
Speaker 10: their head and have a hard time making any kind
Speaker 10: of remove on a topic or in any area of
Speaker 10: their life because they're thinking through all of the what ifs,
Speaker 10: all of the worst case scenarios. They're doing research on
Speaker 10: every possible option out there, and as we know, there
Speaker 10: are a million billion possible options in the.
Speaker 9: World for almost anything we want. And these are people
Speaker 9: who just get stuck and can't seem to.
Speaker 10: Move and get so worked up about any decision they
Speaker 10: make and at having to be perfect or go exactly
Speaker 10: right that they end up not doing things that they
Speaker 10: otherwise would want to do.
Speaker 2: Okay, so what you're saying is it's pretty common to
Speaker 2: have those things. Whereas there's things in life, a few
Speaker 2: things where you're like, I'll just kick the cad and
Speaker 2: then it starts to encompass everything in life. Can't make
Speaker 2: a decision on like you know what flavor coffee I
Speaker 2: want this morning, or if I'm super solid with by Lodge.
Speaker 2: You can't make a decision on anything. That's a problem.
Speaker 10: Yes, I have a client I've been working with for
Speaker 10: a while, a couple, and one of them is stuck
Speaker 10: on what they're going to tile their bathroom with. And
Speaker 10: their bathroom has been in a state of disrepair for
Speaker 10: weeks and weeks and weeks because she can't make up
Speaker 10: her mind about what Kyle to put in the bathroom.
Speaker 10: She always has to look at other options and what
Speaker 10: if there's something better out there, and what if this
Speaker 10: doesn't hold up as well? Or what if I get
Speaker 10: tired of the color, And so their bathroom has been
Speaker 10: largely unusable for weeks, longer than it needed to be
Speaker 10: because she can't commit to a tile choice.
Speaker 2: It's that kind of thing, easy, black and white, timeless next.
Speaker 9: Exactly.
Speaker 10: See, that's where your decisive, That's where I would be decisive.
Speaker 10: That's where somebody who's prone to overthinking get stuck in
Speaker 10: a loop about it.
Speaker 9: Needing to be the right decision.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 9: And not knowing what the right decision is.
Speaker 2: There's no right decision. Just pick one and go with it.
Speaker 2: Just go yeah, just to do something simple and the
Speaker 2: time white and black always will be timeless.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: If you want to get in like gold colored, then
Speaker 2: that's that's going to be short shelf life. But black
Speaker 2: and white will always be in at some point. So
Speaker 2: where does that come from though? Why does it happen?
Speaker 9: Well, a couple of things.
Speaker 10: People who are prone to anxiety and prone to be
Speaker 10: more conscient just tend to be overthinkers. And we understand
Speaker 10: that that's a temperament that comes very early in life,
Speaker 10: almost from birth, the tendency toward anxiety and conscientiousness. But
Speaker 10: also there have been people whose past life experiences have
Speaker 10: led them to believe that making the wrong decision has
Speaker 10: really awful consequences. And like parents who would say regularly,
Speaker 10: what were you thinking? Why didn't you think that through enough?
Speaker 10: It would have gone so much better if you thought
Speaker 10: that through. Maybe true, But also what that message is
Speaker 10: is if you think hard enough, you'll find the right
Speaker 10: decision and things won't go wrong versus Okay, so this
Speaker 10: went wrong.
Speaker 9: What can you do differently next time? How can you
Speaker 9: salvage this?
Speaker 10: Not about the recovery, but about presenting it in the
Speaker 10: first place. So people who've had life experiences that weren't
Speaker 10: really badly when they didn't think things through enough tend
Speaker 10: to be gunshy.
Speaker 2: Gotcha, because there's consequences fear of failure.
Speaker 10: Fear of failure exactly, lack of belief in self to
Speaker 10: be able to deal with whatever consequences come their way.
Speaker 10: So one of the things that I say often is
Speaker 10: I'm an adult with a cell phone and a credit card.
Speaker 10: I can make almost anything happen. And you know, really,
Speaker 10: I can make almost anything happen. So from my perspective,
Speaker 10: if something doesn't go according to plan, I can regroup,
Speaker 10: I can think, I can pivot, I.
Speaker 9: Can come up with something else.
Speaker 10: That's my perception. But other people don't necessarily have that mindset.
Speaker 10: And if they don't believe in themselves to be able
Speaker 10: to pivot, and they haven't had enough failure to learn
Speaker 10: that they actually can recover from it, the idea of
Speaker 10: failure can prevent them from taking any kind of action
Speaker 10: in the first place.
Speaker 2: Well, you just had a raw nerve there talking to
Speaker 2: friends this weekend and one of them's involved. And I
Speaker 2: want to say the business and name names here, but
Speaker 2: we have a generation of people in the workplace and
Speaker 2: high level positions there are a fear of any criticism whatsoever,
Speaker 2: Like as much as like, hey, you know you've got
Speaker 2: the wrong aim on I don't know, some sort of report,
Speaker 2: let's say, and you know, they lose their mind, like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I've been criticized, and now they call
Speaker 2: Nochelle and hr is involved. I mean, I'm not exaggerating,
Speaker 2: that's actually happening. And that's frightening. Like literally, you're at
Speaker 2: a job and you're meeting with people and someone your
Speaker 2: superior says, hey, listen, you made a mistake on this.
Speaker 2: Can you fix it? And it turns into some sort
Speaker 2: of attack on their big can't take criticism at all.
Speaker 2: And we've got workplaces full of people like that. That's
Speaker 2: scary as hell. Not to diminish the topicing get in
Speaker 2: the weeds here, but that's more common than people would think.
Speaker 9: It's very common.
Speaker 10: And when you have a workplace that values perfectionism over innovation,
Speaker 10: over novelty, over experimentation, over doing something imperfect, in a
Speaker 10: timely manner and moving forward. Then it creates and sustains
Speaker 10: this belief that everything has to be exactly as expected
Speaker 10: in order for it to be good, and the consequences
Speaker 10: are dire if not. And again, if you have someone
Speaker 10: or a generation of people who haven't really been allowed
Speaker 10: to fail because they were raised by helicopter parents or
Speaker 10: snowplow parents, then the idea of failure becomes outsized to
Speaker 10: the reality of it. You know, we've all screwed things
Speaker 10: up and we've all had to pivot and make amends
Speaker 10: and figure it out. But the idea of failure becomes
Speaker 10: so outsized to the reality of it that they get
Speaker 10: stuck in their heads on this endless loop of I
Speaker 10: have to do more research, I have to do more research,
Speaker 10: I have to read this again, I have to edit
Speaker 10: this again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't have to be perfect, but you got
Speaker 2: to make a decision. Julie, how to share our licensed
Speaker 2: mental health therapist, Mental Health Monday and the Scotsloan Show.
Speaker 2: It's paralysis by analysis. People will overthink and how you
Speaker 2: stop overthinking and take action as what we're talking about. Okay,
Speaker 2: so we got into the whys and how big it
Speaker 2: is how do you break the cycle?
Speaker 9: Well, there are a couple of things you can do.
Speaker 9: There are a few things.
Speaker 10: One of the things that I really like to counsel
Speaker 10: people to do is set a time limit for when
Speaker 10: you're going to make a decision. I'm going to research so,
Speaker 10: to use the tile example, I'm going to research tile
Speaker 10: over the weekend, and by Monday, I'm going to have a.
Speaker 9: Decision that is placed in order.
Speaker 10: So set yourself a time limit that you choose to
Speaker 10: adhere to that gives you some sense of urgency, gives
Speaker 10: you some time to do the research and the thinking
Speaker 10: that you need.
Speaker 9: But doesn't keep you stuck in that loop.
Speaker 10: Another thing that can really be helpful is focusing on
Speaker 10: just the next step. People who overthink tend to think
Speaker 10: seventeen steps down the road. So I'll do this, and
Speaker 10: then i'll do this, and then I'll go like this,
Speaker 10: and then I'll go like this, and they're trying to
Speaker 10: predict the outcome. Focusing on the next step. We don't
Speaker 10: need to see the whole ladder. We don't need to
Speaker 10: see the whole road. We just need to take the
Speaker 10: next step up or down the road can be really
Speaker 10: helpful too, because that is a more manageable chunk of
Speaker 10: information and a more manageable chunk action for people to
Speaker 10: deal with then the entire project. You know the question,
Speaker 10: how do you need an elephant one bite at a time.
Speaker 10: You have to just take these small chunks that can
Speaker 10: be helpful too, Okay.
Speaker 2: Break things down in yeah. Like the tile example is like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: let's just focus on the floor tile. Let's pick that
Speaker 2: and go out for it rather than everything else.
Speaker 9: Got it right, exactly.
Speaker 10: Another thing that happens when people get into this overthinking
Speaker 10: anxiety loop is they think worst case scenario and they
Speaker 10: think of all the things that could go wrong. And
Speaker 10: so what we know about our brains is if try
Speaker 10: not to think of the things that could go wrong.
Speaker 10: If we're wired to think worst case scenario and we
Speaker 10: try not to, that doesn't work very well. So what
Speaker 10: I tell my clients to do is you're allowed to
Speaker 10: think of the worst case scenario, and then you have
Speaker 10: to think of at least three other things that are
Speaker 10: not the worst case scenario. So go worst case first,
Speaker 10: and then broaden your thinking to think of three other
Speaker 10: possible outcomes that aren't that. Just to broaden the idea
Speaker 10: that it could be this, but it could be this,
Speaker 10: or it could be the other, or it could be
Speaker 10: this other thing.
Speaker 9: Okay, broadening that scope helps.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So also does the fact that if you just
Speaker 2: make a bunch of small decisions that then do you
Speaker 2: get confidence making bigger decisions.
Speaker 5: Does it work that way, Yes, yes it does.
Speaker 10: So you build momentum, you do something and it goes right,
Speaker 10: and you realize, oh, I am a good decision maker.
Speaker 9: I can figure this out. You do something else it
Speaker 9: goes right.
Speaker 3: I can.
Speaker 10: Or you do something and it goes wrong and you
Speaker 10: figure it out and you fix it and you're like, oh,
Speaker 10: when things go wrong, it's not as bad as I
Speaker 10: thought it was. You build confidence in your own decision
Speaker 10: making and your own problem solving.
Speaker 2: Gotcha? Would you agree that? I think for a lot
Speaker 2: of folks that overthink and don't take action, which is
Speaker 2: a lot a lot of people, is that you don't
Speaker 2: have to have every detail in every angle completely figured
Speaker 2: out before you start a project.
Speaker 9: Exactly.
Speaker 10: You can figure out some key things and then let
Speaker 10: what happens happen and figure the rest of it out
Speaker 10: as you go along. And I tell people to think
Speaker 10: about it not as what should I do. But what
Speaker 10: are all the things I could do?
Speaker 9: Not how should I do this? But how could I
Speaker 9: do this?
Speaker 10: Because should is like a yes no, and could is
Speaker 10: a broader perspective to take.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it makes sense, you don't need to figure it
Speaker 2: out where start going ahead?
Speaker 6: Sure?
Speaker 2: Why not go with that for now? But it's easier
Speaker 2: said than done, right, It's that first step is really
Speaker 2: really hard for people.
Speaker 10: It can be really hard for people, and that's why
Speaker 10: I encourage people to microdose discomfort. Try doing some things
Speaker 10: that are small that make you a little uncomfortable, that
Speaker 10: move you just a skosh out of your comfort zone,
Speaker 10: and see how you handle it. Try to increase your
Speaker 10: tolerance for uncertainty and discomfort and messiness in your life
Speaker 10: so that you can become more resilient and you can
Speaker 10: think more broadly and you can have more options available
Speaker 10: to you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's I guess discomfort. Yeah, well, that's against
Speaker 2: human nature rights. We want to be surrounded by comfort,
Speaker 2: which is the whole thing with child rearing. When we
Speaker 2: talk about helicopters and plot parents, it's about making your
Speaker 2: life comfortable as comfortable as possible. But adversity builds character.
Speaker 2: It's so true but it also prepares you to make decisions.
Speaker 2: And these are the really negative consequences of that attitude
Speaker 2: of protecting you from everything and not preparing you for anything.
Speaker 4: Correct.
Speaker 10: Yes, there's this thing called post traumatic growth. We've all
Speaker 10: heard of post traumatic stress. There's this thing called post
Speaker 10: traumatic growth where when something goes wrong doesn't have to
Speaker 10: be big trauma. When something goes wrong in our lives,
Speaker 10: we can.
Speaker 9: Grow from that.
Speaker 10: We can gain resilience, we can gain confidence, we can
Speaker 10: gain skills or knowledge or expe can gain a lot
Speaker 10: from when things go wrong.
Speaker 9: We don't just gain from when things go right.
Speaker 10: In fact, some of the greatest lessons most of us
Speaker 10: have learned have been when something didn't go according to plan.
Speaker 2: Right, she's really had ter share a licensed mental health
Speaker 2: therapist from a be Connected dot Care that's let her
Speaker 2: be connected and she's out of a Clifton and going
Speaker 2: to reach out future topic or concern, comment or question.
Speaker 2: Hey Julie at be Connected dot Care. It's mental Health
Speaker 2: Monday with Julietge. Appreciate you and we'll talk next week.
Speaker 2: Have a great a few days. We will take care.
Speaker 2: Thanks all right, stop overthinking and get off your butt
Speaker 2: and start doing stuff. Quit talking, start doing. I guess
Speaker 2: that's the bottom line here. We'll get a news update
Speaker 2: in the President is now in Egypt for the pe
Speaker 2: summit there, and so far, so good in the hours
Speaker 2: that have happened since the piece has been brokere we
Speaker 2: have that going on a little closer to home here
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati, we just learned about the passing not long
Speaker 2: ago of the live of the legend himself, Jim Kelly Junior,
Speaker 2: of course, Bearcat Hall of Famer, passing away. I believe
Speaker 2: at the age of seventy two, been battling sickness for
Speaker 2: a while. But the longtime color analyst to Dan Horde's
Speaker 2: play by play, he's been out for a little while anyway,
Speaker 2: but he'll be sadly missed. Jim Kelly Junior passing away today,
Speaker 2: and our thoughts and prayers with the Kelly family and
Speaker 2: everyone down on Clifton this morning. Scott's loan show on
Speaker 2: the Home of the Best Bangles coverage Anne Home of
Speaker 2: the Cats, seven hundred WWD Sincnt.
Speaker 1: Want to be American.
Speaker 2: Scott's flowing back on seven hundred WLW have a deal Israel.
Speaker 2: Israel and Palestine have a peace deal. All the living
Speaker 2: hostages in Gaza been released for about two thousand prisoners
Speaker 2: in Israel, Thousands of Palestinians to walk to northern Gaza
Speaker 2: to try and find what happened to their loved ones
Speaker 2: and their homes. And Trump addressed the Israeli parliament earlier
Speaker 2: today to large cheers. Also, some protests are brokering the
Speaker 2: peace deal entering two years of wards, then the two
Speaker 2: years of war. He's meeting in Egypt with the leaders
Speaker 2: of more than twenty countries. That's with next as he
Speaker 2: takes as much as their victory lap. The question is
Speaker 2: is this a lasting piece. Abdullah Hayek is a Middle
Speaker 2: East analyst and consultant and is a peace fellow at
Speaker 2: the Young Voices. Abdulla, welcome to the show.
Speaker 5: How are you good morning, Scott, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5: I'm doing good. How are you well?
Speaker 2: Thanks? I appreciate it. So is this just is this
Speaker 2: the end of the war or is this a loud
Speaker 2: ceasefire and we're going to pick this up in a
Speaker 2: few weeks, a few months, maybe a few years.
Speaker 5: Well, so far it seems that the war in Gaza
Speaker 5: is indefinitely over. We've seen Trump's confidence apparent when he
Speaker 5: was addressing the press aboard Air Force one en route
Speaker 5: to Israel, and a reporter I believe it was Caitlin
Speaker 5: Collins from CNN asked the president, you say the war's done.
Speaker 5: Nataniello says it hasn't, and it just tells her, do
Speaker 5: you understand me, it's done. It's just done. The war
Speaker 5: is done. So it seems that the president is pretty
Speaker 5: adamant that he wants to end the war in Gaza,
Speaker 5: and so far, with the three past ceasefire attempts over
Speaker 5: the past two years, this particular ceasefire seems to be
Speaker 5: successful because Hamas has actually participated and budged and went
Speaker 5: through with at least the first successful phase one of it. Thankfully,
Speaker 5: the twenty living hostages are freed. Now that's the first step.
Speaker 5: The Israeli hostilities, the offensive operations, bombing, military participation in
Speaker 5: the strip have ended, and the humanitarian car door has proceeded.
Speaker 5: So I think what matters now is within the next
Speaker 5: few hours when Trump departs Israel and goes to Egypt
Speaker 5: and meets with twenty other world leaders as you just mentioned,
Speaker 5: and we'll see what the next steps will be. But
Speaker 5: so far, so good.
Speaker 2: Well, the good news is you have pretty much the
Speaker 2: rest of the Middle East on board with this. The outlier, though,
Speaker 2: would be Iran as the largest state sponsored terrorist operation
Speaker 2: in Iran, whether or not not Hamas continues, albeit maybe
Speaker 2: in a different form, but continues. That's going to be
Speaker 2: up to them, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Well. I doubt that Hamas will play any role in
Speaker 5: god As any day after this. The popularity amongst the
Speaker 5: Gazen people themselves has extremely diminished. They are extremely unpopular,
Speaker 5: They are unwanted. Iran has shown its cards to the
Speaker 5: region that whoever seeks to shade under it really gets forsaken.
Speaker 5: Hamas has been literally left to center itself Hasbola has
Speaker 5: been destroyed by Israel without any real aid from Iran.
Speaker 5: The outside regime, as we've seen in December, just crumbled
Speaker 5: in a matter of eleven days, and the Hoopies have
Speaker 5: literally been smacked by everyone in the region and Iran
Speaker 5: hasn't done anything. The only time Iran fights back is
Speaker 5: what it's hit itself. So I don't think that Iranian
Speaker 5: influence over Hamas is going to be as it was
Speaker 5: prior to October seventh, And I think the Palestinian people
Speaker 5: will right now understand that really piece is just the
Speaker 5: best way to move forward and end all of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just wonder if there'll be enough splinter members
Speaker 2: left of a mass, maybe they reform down the line
Speaker 2: is something else, But you know, at least temporarily with
Speaker 2: the near future, things look good, Abdulla Hayek relative to
Speaker 2: peace in that country that we've seen on and off
Speaker 2: again now well longer than we've both been here for sure?
Speaker 2: How much of this as far as the trust element,
Speaker 2: because that's really the big thing here, right, is that
Speaker 2: people are just maybe what ended this whole thing is fatigue.
Speaker 5: Well, fatigue is certain. This war is the longest that
Speaker 5: Israel has ever been in Israel, you know, usually goes
Speaker 5: to war for weeks or months, not for years. I
Speaker 5: think trust is a two way street. If the war
Speaker 5: truly wants to end, both sides need to trust each other.
Speaker 5: If we see a pattern developed within this conflict, we
Speaker 5: can see that every three major peace deal breakthrough usually
Speaker 5: succeeds a major war. We've seen the Camp David Accords
Speaker 5: succeed the Yom Kipur war. We've seen the Also Accords
Speaker 5: succeed the First Intifada. So right now. I think with
Speaker 5: this war being so destructive and you know, groundbreaking and
Speaker 5: changing the landscape, I think there's an opportunity right now,
Speaker 5: with fatigue, with the determination to solve the conflict, with
Speaker 5: with everything you could possibly imagine, to actually come through
Speaker 5: with a peace deal that will not just end this
Speaker 5: chapter of the conflict, but the whole conflict. And I
Speaker 5: think it would be best with if it's stayed within
Speaker 5: the two state solution in some way or the other.
Speaker 2: Well, it seems like it's headed that way. We'll get
Speaker 2: that in a second. But as far as initially earning
Speaker 2: the trost I guess of each other, the Israelis as
Speaker 2: well as Palestinians, says I would think like humanitarian aid
Speaker 2: would be a big component of this. Is that if
Speaker 2: we're delivering food and we're not just the US but Israel,
Speaker 2: and you have actual Israelis that and boots on the
Speaker 2: ground they're delivering food and water and medical spies helping
Speaker 2: them rebuild Gaza, doesn't that go a long way to
Speaker 2: lasting peace.
Speaker 5: Well, it's definitely a gesture of goodwill. It's much needed, actually,
Speaker 5: especially with the high chance of salmon that were on
Speaker 5: the strip. I think that The initiative on behalf of
Speaker 5: the Americans and the Israelis to commence food delivery is good,
Speaker 5: but I think that it would even be a better
Speaker 5: gesture of goodwill if both of them participate within the
Speaker 5: reconstruction and the rehabilitation of Gaza project as a whole
Speaker 5: with the broader international community. That will definitely go a
Speaker 5: long way, and it will certainly show that the people
Speaker 5: in Gaza that once you get rid of Hamas and
Speaker 5: once you get rid of the Iranian influence, the aftermath
Speaker 5: is usually more rewarding and more prosperous for you. So
Speaker 5: I think that would go better in developing the trust
Speaker 5: that you were talking about, in which it would chill
Speaker 5: that the Israelis don't just come with the hammer, they
Speaker 5: come with the olive branch as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't you know, if you see your enemy,
Speaker 2: if you can see in touch and who was formula
Speaker 2: enemy and they're helping you rebuild, Now, that's how you
Speaker 2: regain trust. That's how you build I think, a lasting piece.
Speaker 2: But that is the very very hands on, early, touchy
Speaker 2: tactile component of this whole thing. The other element is
Speaker 2: you mentioned Abdulla Hyak. Middle East analysts and consultant is
Speaker 2: the rebuilding in governance. So you mentioned a two state solution,
Speaker 2: and that has always been a perilous ask, and that is, okay,
Speaker 2: can can we have Palestine and Israel co exist in
Speaker 2: the same land that has always been fraught with a
Speaker 2: lot of problems because of how much land and where
Speaker 2: and expansion and the like, And that's driven this whole
Speaker 2: conflict for a long time. If you have a transitional
Speaker 2: governance that leads into governing, you almost by definition, then
Speaker 2: have to have a state to govern. Correct. So this
Speaker 2: is the fact of a two state solution. To start,
Speaker 2: we have established Palestine as ali a legitimate territory, and
Speaker 2: I think countries like France were not long ago booed
Speaker 2: by us, but now it sounds like this is what
Speaker 2: we're doing int.
Speaker 5: Well, Scott, it's good that you mentioned this, but within
Speaker 5: that realm you just spoken, the whole thing is all
Speaker 5: over the place. Now, both Hamas and the Trump twenty
Speaker 5: point piece plan both they explicitly mentioned that they will
Speaker 5: not accept the Palestinian authority to go into the Gaza
Speaker 5: strip and resume governance after Hamas surrenders. Now, I think
Speaker 5: that is the major point that raises one's eyebrows because
Speaker 5: Hamas only stated that it will surrender the strip to
Speaker 5: a body of international and independent Palestinian technocrats. Has anyone
Speaker 5: ever heard of that term really successful in the Middle East?
Speaker 5: I don't think so, which brings us back to my
Speaker 5: original point, which I believe, with the same motivation and
Speaker 5: initiative we've seen in ending the war in Gaza, I
Speaker 5: think the US and the international community as a whole
Speaker 5: has to lead an initiative to revitalize and decorrupt the
Speaker 5: Palestinian Authority, which was designed to be the governing body
Speaker 5: of the Palestinians in the wake of Oslo in nineteen
Speaker 5: ninety three. They've already had a track record of governance
Speaker 5: and for a good period of time they were successful.
Speaker 5: Those are the guys that will really do the job
Speaker 5: to help the Palestinians.
Speaker 2: Well, can we trust them now? I mean that there's
Speaker 2: a history of corruption, allegations and failed peace talks and
Speaker 2: everything else. We're back to that.
Speaker 5: You're absolutely correct, But that's what I'm saying. We need
Speaker 5: to lead an initiative to rehabilitate them, to revitalize them,
Speaker 5: do something to motivate elections. Being happening there and the
Speaker 5: Palestinians electing leaders. I know two thousand and six happened
Speaker 5: and Hamas won, but the constituents that were present in
Speaker 5: two thousand and six are ninety percent not going to
Speaker 5: vote in this election, which is twenty years later. The
Speaker 5: young generation of Palestinians have seen that the wrath of
Speaker 5: Israeli military might is not something that should be dealt with,
Speaker 5: as we've seen in the example with Gaza, the Palaestinians
Speaker 5: would want to end the conflict peacefully. If we can
Speaker 5: just go to polling data, if it were to emerge
Speaker 5: right now, it would most certainly show that the Palestinian
Speaker 5: people do not want the confrontation with Israel anymore. We're
Speaker 5: seeing social media footage on the ground in Gaza that
Speaker 5: just attack Hamas more so than they attack Israel. So
Speaker 5: the tide is changing in the region. You know. As
Speaker 5: for the two states solutions, what the voters will be,
Speaker 5: what the shape of the app would look like, that's
Speaker 5: all I think. Very very tough to tackle. I mean,
Speaker 5: numerous presidential administrations haven't been able to tackle. But it's
Speaker 5: good that they keep it within that framework because honestly,
Speaker 5: other than that what is the solutions how? I don't think,
Speaker 5: you know, there's any other possible solution because the Israelis
Speaker 5: are not going anywhere, the Palestinians are not going anywhere.
Speaker 5: Is it going to be fulfilled within the you know,
Speaker 5: the one state solution or a three state solution where
Speaker 5: the West Bank goes back to Jordan or the Gaza
Speaker 5: Strip goes back to Egypt. I don't think that's going
Speaker 5: to be feasible or possible. So a two state solution
Speaker 5: in which both sides can guarantee each other's security and
Speaker 5: peace is the best solution. And how that's going to
Speaker 5: be done? I think you need courage. I think you
Speaker 5: need the courage to overcome the obstacles, and you know,
Speaker 5: in a nutshell, I think you know, the Arab claim
Speaker 5: as foreshown in the two thousand and two Arab Peace Initiative,
Speaker 5: which states that there would be full recognition on behalf
Speaker 5: of the Arab world with Israel in return of Israeli
Speaker 5: withdrawal from the Palestinian occupied territories. I think that's a
Speaker 5: good start, but you know, the Arabs have to amend that.
Speaker 5: You know, the Borders of June fourth, nineteen sixty seven,
Speaker 5: aren't really feasible anymore because previously there were major chunks
Speaker 5: of Palestinian cities surrounded by tiny dots of Israeli settlements
Speaker 5: in the West Bank. And that's just the other way around,
Speaker 5: where you have these major Jewish Israeli settlements in the
Speaker 5: West Bank that are really just surrounded by Palestinian dust.
Speaker 5: The demographics in the West Bank have changed dramatically, So
Speaker 5: I think that they need to get over the June fourth,
Speaker 5: ninenineteen sixty seven borders. They have to come to an
Speaker 5: agreement over Jerusalem, and I think something can be made.
Speaker 5: But the time is right now. The iron is hot.
Speaker 5: It's best time to strike is now. So we'll see.
Speaker 2: And we also have to maintain focus, and that's something
Speaker 2: I do a little that we're really bad at in
Speaker 2: the West to specifically America is well, we'll do this,
Speaker 2: we'll celebrate, then we'll move on to the next thing
Speaker 2: and completely forget all the work it took to establish
Speaker 2: peace in the Middle East. All these countries. We let
Speaker 2: it fall apart. We've seen a long track record and
Speaker 2: that whether it's a Vietnam, whether it's Afghanistan, whether it's
Speaker 2: the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Cold War
Speaker 2: and the Russians the former Soviet Union, and we just
Speaker 2: ignore that and go, hey, if we don't maintain democracy
Speaker 2: and try to keep feeding it and caring for it
Speaker 2: and nurturing and nursing along, it'll fall apart because it's fragile.
Speaker 5: We do that all the time, unfortunately. So and the
Speaker 5: track record isn't just you know, with those states that
Speaker 5: you mentioned. It has been with the Palestinians over and
Speaker 5: over again, with the whole conflict. So I think, you know,
Speaker 5: Donald Trump has shown true interest in you know, having
Speaker 5: his second term his administration be remembered as that of
Speaker 5: a peacemaker. We've seen his record be successful so far
Speaker 5: and ending conflicts between Armenian and azer by John, the
Speaker 5: Indians and Pakistanis, the Rwandans and Congolese, and three other
Speaker 5: conflicts in addition to the one in Gaza and Israel.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well again we'll see how long it lasts.
Speaker 2: If he can get through his second term without it
Speaker 2: falling apart again, would be that alone, by itself would
Speaker 2: probably be a small miracle. And I know there's a
Speaker 2: lot of pieces behind the scenes. As he's in Egypt
Speaker 2: now talking world lads, a lot of things had to
Speaker 2: happen behind the scenes for this to occur, namely leveraging
Speaker 2: Cutter and Turkey and Egypt to get this deal broker together.
Speaker 2: That took a lot of work behind the scenes obviously.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, And I think there needs to go credit
Speaker 5: for the Turks. Over the past two years, the major
Speaker 5: countries involved in the negotiations were, of course Israelis and Americans,
Speaker 5: with the Kataris and the Egyptians. When the Turks got
Speaker 5: involved in the negotiations, only in a matter of three
Speaker 5: days did we come to a solution to the conference.
Speaker 5: So I think, you know, the credit is due to
Speaker 5: the Turks, especially that President Erdogan has, according to President Trump,
Speaker 5: personally intervened in the negotiation process for itself. The timing
Speaker 5: is just right. I think everything is just falling in time.
Speaker 5: Two years have ended, the hostages have just seen enough,
Speaker 5: and I think the civilian population of Gaza has just
Speaker 5: been under horrible conditions that no one could possibly imagine.
Speaker 5: The timing is right, the conflict's ending, everyone's happy. I think,
Speaker 5: you know, why shouldn't the population both in Israel and
Speaker 5: the Palestinians just moved forward to peace? Why can't we
Speaker 5: see a rebirth of the.
Speaker 2: Nineteen nineties again, possibly, and he hopes so, because there's
Speaker 2: just so much blood and life lost and devastation, and
Speaker 2: it cut deeply on both sides, and that that blood
Speaker 2: is so fresh that I think a piece elast for
Speaker 2: a little while. Unfortunately, what happens in another generation comes
Speaker 2: along and forgets about history. But we'll let them address
Speaker 2: the later day. Let's celebrate the fact that the finally
Speaker 2: the war has stopped. Over two long, hard years, all
Speaker 2: the death and destruction led to this. He again on
Speaker 2: the show, is Abdulla Hyak, middle East policy expert on
Speaker 2: the Scott's Loan Show on seven hundred. Ww's a piece
Speaker 2: fellow with young voices. Thanks again for the time. I
Speaker 2: appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Thank you. Scott's great to be here, and I look
Speaker 5: forward to our next discussion.
Speaker 2: Trump is in Egypt to take his victory. Laugh, maybe
Speaker 2: a lap meeting with leaders of some twenty countries here
Speaker 2: closer to home. The big star, of course is the Bengals.
Speaker 2: The Bengals, the Bengals. The Bengals lost, but they did
Speaker 2: it in a better way. We learn to lose better.
Speaker 2: Let's put it that way. Joe Flocker look pretty good
Speaker 2: at second half, the defense fall apart. The big question,
Speaker 2: of course is why can't we have the offensive defense
Speaker 2: on the same page for all four quarters, certainly in
Speaker 2: the last number of games in this early season, so
Speaker 2: earlier in the season. In fact of the matter is
Speaker 2: you played complimentary football. It's got the last four quarters.
Speaker 2: Offense looked bad in the first half good and the
Speaker 2: second half in the opposite for the defense wilted in
Speaker 2: the end. But Scott Steelers, it's a short week, Thursday
Speaker 2: night football coming to Cincinnati. Scott Sloan show. We've got
Speaker 2: news on the way in just about four or five minutes,
Speaker 2: hanging on for more seven hundred w welw sony on seven.
Speaker 6: Hundred WW Again.
Speaker 2: The Cincinnati Bengals fell in the pack because I don't
Speaker 2: have to tell you that yesterday afternoon. Should the loss
Speaker 2: feel like a win?
Speaker 5: In a way?
Speaker 2: James Rapine is here from SI Bengals talking lockdown Bengals. James,
Speaker 2: did we win in the loss?
Speaker 9: No?
Speaker 5: No, we did. Answer.
Speaker 2: They don't get that an we lost, but it feels
Speaker 2: like a better loss. It's like, no, you lost, It's
Speaker 2: just a loss. Is a loss even though you lost
Speaker 2: by a loss, by your worse you didn't look it
Speaker 2: wasn't as embarrassing as previous loss. He's still lost.
Speaker 11: For sure, and that's the correct takeaway. I also think
Speaker 11: to the people that are optimistic for yesterday, the reason
Speaker 11: the reason why you're optimistic is because there are we're
Speaker 11: signs of hope and signs of a difference. Now, will
Speaker 11: that translate into Thursday? That's the real key, because a
Speaker 11: loss is a loss is a loss. But if it
Speaker 11: helps you on Thursday, well then that could translate totally.
Speaker 2: Well we'll get to that. Le's slow down just a second.
Speaker 2: Here's the problem with the Bugels. It's been true, whether
Speaker 2: Jake Brown is a quarterback or not, is putting a
Speaker 2: complete game together. We've heard about the complimentary nature of football, offense, defense,
Speaker 2: special teams, offense bad first half, good second half, defense,
Speaker 2: decent first and half, bad second half. We can't put
Speaker 2: this together. That's, you know, one of the many problems.
Speaker 2: It's been an ongoing trend here, specifically with the offense
Speaker 2: being bad in the first half. Now we had an excuse,
Speaker 2: not so much under Joe Burrow, but under Jake browning
Speaker 2: one half of football for one Joe Flacco is not
Speaker 2: really a trend. It's a sample. Bengals put up sixty
Speaker 2: five yards total offense, but it was only down ten
Speaker 2: to nothing at halftime, and that seemed like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: don't know how we're going to generate more offense in
Speaker 2: the second half, but they did, and then the defense collapsed.
Speaker 2: So I guess maybe that's because the offense is so
Speaker 2: went up in the first half, by the time the
Speaker 2: defense gets to that fourth quarter, they're completely guessed.
Speaker 11: Maybe, you know, maybe that's the case. And I certainly
Speaker 11: would love to see this offense start and play normal
Speaker 11: football in the first half. They've been outscore seventy nine
Speaker 11: to nine in the first half of the past four games.
Speaker 11: They haven't sort of touchdown in that span. Magically, the
Speaker 11: nine is three three three point three three field goals.
Speaker 5: So it's it's frustrating to watch.
Speaker 11: And yesterday I do think that there's some reason behind
Speaker 11: it that Joe Flacco had just gotten there. You're going
Speaker 11: up against the good defense, you are on the road,
Speaker 11: and yet at the same time, it doesn't change. Exactly
Speaker 11: what we had seen the past three weeks is happening again.
Speaker 11: And no, they didn't turn the ball over but they
Speaker 11: literally couldn't move the ball. At the end of the
Speaker 11: first quarter. They went three and out on their only drive.
Speaker 11: I had one yard of total offense. It went three
Speaker 11: and out on three of their first four drives.
Speaker 6: Of the half. Like it just can't That isn't a
Speaker 6: way to win games. You can't do that. You can't
Speaker 6: start off that slow because you're right now.
Speaker 11: We're wondering, all right, well, is it the defense's fault
Speaker 11: or is the defense just gassed or well, I think
Speaker 11: the defense was awful in the second half, and I
Speaker 11: don't think it's all them just being gassed. But you
Speaker 11: have to start better if you're going to win games,
Speaker 11: especially on the road against really good teams.
Speaker 2: And you're playing at lambeau Field. You're playing in a
Speaker 2: pretty good Packers team that's no slacker. That now Pittsburgh,
Speaker 2: the sweetheart of the division right now, comes to the
Speaker 2: town on Thursday. Arguably that's a much tougher game. You're
Speaker 2: playing at night, you're playing at home at pay Corps.
Speaker 2: Hopefully home field helps you. But right now, the Bengals,
Speaker 2: if this is any indication of how you know as
Speaker 2: a loss is a loss, Cincy is five and a
Speaker 2: half point underdogs going to this game on Thursday night.
Speaker 11: Yeah, and this is this is where it shifts, because
Speaker 11: I said, this is not hindsight, This isn't me looking
Speaker 11: at it.
Speaker 6: From orange and black colored glasses.
Speaker 11: Losing to the Packers in my mind was expected, like
Speaker 11: I wanted to see them play better, but tough team
Speaker 11: on the road. Joe Flacker has been there for four
Speaker 11: and a half days. Basically a tough ask. But you
Speaker 11: make that move for Joe Flacco so you can one
Speaker 11: be more competitive, but two win games like Thursday night
Speaker 11: against the Pittsburgh team and obviously knows Joe well, you
Speaker 11: know the Steelers well, and if you win, you can
Speaker 11: get right back in this because the.
Speaker 6: AFC North stinks. Really, the AFC for the most part
Speaker 6: hasn't been as good as people thought.
Speaker 11: And so that door is cracked. But it slams shut
Speaker 11: with a loss or you can open with a win. Yeah,
Speaker 11: and that's the reality for the Bengals right now.
Speaker 2: It feels certainly you look by the way you described
Speaker 2: it must went on Thursday and to beat the Steelers
Speaker 2: in the division, especially at this chance having him at
Speaker 2: home now it is a short week. Of course, that's
Speaker 2: always bad. Maybe it's not because now Joe Flackow, he's
Speaker 2: been a bit of a rhythm right now, and you
Speaker 2: look again in a rhythm in the second half, I mean,
Speaker 2: he threw some really tight balls, particularly to Jamar Chase.
Speaker 2: Jamar Chase blew up that touchdown to the head. I
Speaker 2: still don't know how you got that. I still don't
Speaker 2: know how that wasn't a flag, by the way, but
Speaker 2: you felt like, Wow, finally somebody who given a little
Speaker 2: bit of time and credits to the offensive line there
Speaker 2: can find the deep ball, can hitch him our Chase
Speaker 2: can hit Ti Higgins and maybe we got something there.
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's that's it. That's exactly it is. I I
Speaker 11: came away from that game. My biggest takeaway was, all Right,
Speaker 11: they have a guy at quarterbacks. I have a guy
Speaker 11: at quarterback that can make the throws. He can get
Speaker 11: it to their weapons. And this team scott is built
Speaker 11: around their offense. Like if they're going to be good,
Speaker 11: their offense needs to be good. Their offense should be
Speaker 11: better than the defense. Like that's just that's how they're
Speaker 11: going to win games. And so that second half, I mean,
Speaker 11: they might have scored three straight touchdowns if andre Josavash
Speaker 11: doesn't dropped that.
Speaker 6: Ball on third and eight. Let it go through his hands.
Speaker 6: They were moving it and so yeah.
Speaker 11: I think that there's there's reason to be hope, hopeful, yep.
Speaker 11: And I think that they're going to be encouraged by that.
Speaker 11: But again, now it's now the pressure really is on.
Speaker 11: This is akitsh and sink. You throw the kitch and sink.
Speaker 11: You throw every play, every everything to get a win.
Speaker 2: On Thursday night, you mentioned Yosha and Yoshi really struggled
Speaker 2: last year. It was not a good game for him.
Speaker 5: He did, he did, and.
Speaker 8: Those are the type of plays like, especially on the road,
Speaker 8: you quarterback make a catch, you're you're trying to rally
Speaker 8: back like you You have to have those kind of
Speaker 8: plays to have a chance.
Speaker 11: And yeah, if he didn't need those plays on the field,
Speaker 11: who knows. Who knows what ends up happening.
Speaker 2: You wonder two end of the half, what if it
Speaker 2: would look that much? It's okay, so you're in the
Speaker 2: go to locker room. It's ten nothing. You go to
Speaker 2: locker room ten three and a touchdown. You've got a
Speaker 2: little momentum there. McPherson hitting the crossbar from sixty seven,
Speaker 2: which had been an NFL rocker. That was when Curl
Speaker 2: hits a crossbar goes in and oh wait, we called
Speaker 2: time out right before a fortuitous icing of the kicker
Speaker 2: because obviously the second one wasn't long enough and it
Speaker 2: was wide right, he just got a little too much
Speaker 2: under it. But man, we could I think it. You
Speaker 2: don't want to say, hey, what what could have? Should have?
Speaker 5: Could have had?
Speaker 2: Mean if Joe Burrow didn't go down, we probably would't
Speaker 2: have this conversation. Is the fact that, man, I just
Speaker 2: that felt to me, like, boy, you go in to
Speaker 2: the locker room and getting three back and hey we're
Speaker 2: only down seven, And then the way they looked in
Speaker 2: the second half, that could have been a different outcome.
Speaker 5: It could have.
Speaker 11: Is the heck of a time out by that before
Speaker 11: it really was because I don't know if do you
Speaker 11: think you need to ice the kicker at sixty seventy yards?
Speaker 11: Is it better just to to let him kick it?
Speaker 11: Clearly it was better to take the time.
Speaker 2: Out, But you're not taking your time outs in the half?
Speaker 2: Am I mean? Okay? What do you lose my calling
Speaker 2: time out?
Speaker 6: No doubt, no doubt.
Speaker 5: And that's it. That's why you do it.
Speaker 11: But geeh, like I uh, I wish honestly, I wish
Speaker 11: Evan didn't get to kick that first one, right because
Speaker 11: I think he kicked the first one and made it
Speaker 11: and then I don't know.
Speaker 6: It almost changes your mindset.
Speaker 11: And I'm not just saying he said that or felt
Speaker 11: that way, but like, it just felt different with that
Speaker 11: second been.
Speaker 5: Shot.
Speaker 2: Again, if the angle the holes a half degree off,
Speaker 2: it's going to change it from that far. So you know,
Speaker 2: it may not have been the hold because in the
Speaker 2: state could have been a million things. But yeah, now,
Speaker 2: had he missed it and then hit the second one,
Speaker 2: we'd be high five in each other right now, and
Speaker 2: maybe the Bengals would have done something. But that was
Speaker 2: the most Bengal thing of the game I think is
Speaker 2: that he makes it from sixty seven, they call the
Speaker 2: time out and he misses the sixty seven yard or
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, I thought first half defense played good enough
Speaker 2: to win Trey Hendrickson leading to the back injury. Things
Speaker 2: change after Trey Hendrickson wasn't rushing the passer anymore.
Speaker 11: Yep, that might have been all these game deciding plays.
Speaker 11: You know, third and eight and you have Jordan Love
Speaker 11: with over four seconds to throw the ball and then
Speaker 11: he finds Matt Golden when the Bengals had trimmed the
Speaker 11: lead to twenty four to eighteen. And if they get
Speaker 11: a stop there, they're getting the ball. Yeah, but my goodness,
Speaker 11: sound nice. Wouldn't bet to have Trey Hendrickson on the field?
Speaker 11: I really hope it isn't serious, because you talk about
Speaker 11: pass to winning games. They just don't have a lot
Speaker 11: of playmakers on defense right now, Scotty. So without Trey,
Speaker 11: without Trey, you're working around that. Who's going to make
Speaker 11: a play And there's just there's not many guys that
Speaker 11: you could confidently they would raise their hand and be
Speaker 11: able to actually go out there.
Speaker 2: And there's but does anyone miss more tackles than Jordan Bell?
Speaker 2: I mean it was fair most games and Cam Taylor
Speaker 2: brit has just been bad for a long time now,
Speaker 2: and I mean he's bench leading up to the game,
Speaker 2: and uh, it's just you look at it and go,
Speaker 2: there's two fun a firm of the guys that want
Speaker 2: to make a play. I mean tackling. That's not the
Speaker 2: easiest thing, but it's the most basic thing you watch
Speaker 2: a Bengals game. How many guys get xtra yards after
Speaker 2: initial contact you could probably count on one hand, or
Speaker 2: in the course of the game where the person make
Speaker 2: initial contact brings down the target.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's it's frustrating.
Speaker 11: And I thought it was interesting that the Bengals weren't
Speaker 11: with two rookie linebackers as well.
Speaker 6: Yeah that game.
Speaker 11: Yeah, and Barrett Carter and Demetrius Knight, And I don't
Speaker 11: want to be the bear bad news, but I don't
Speaker 11: think he's the one played well. I see, Josh Jacobs
Speaker 11: had his best game of the year, averaging over yards
Speaker 11: to carry. Obviously the two touchdowns on the one touchdown run,
Speaker 11: I mean he was pretty pretty untouched after getting through
Speaker 11: the defensive a front and that can't happen. So, yeah,
Speaker 11: you mentioned it, Cam Taylor Bridge, Jordan Battle and then
Speaker 11: you throw in those guys and not much of a
Speaker 11: pass rush. Yeah, And it's just it's a really tough
Speaker 11: go of it right now, and so who knows. I
Speaker 11: think Shamar Stewart has a chance to play this week,
Speaker 11: and maybe Trey Hendrickson can fight through it.
Speaker 5: And if you have those two.
Speaker 6: Guys, maybe you will have somewhat of a pass rush against.
Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers, James Rapine back to the corners and starting
Speaker 2: two rookies at linebacker. Demetrius Night. Okay, we saw Demetrius,
Speaker 2: but bred Carter in for Logan. What happened to Logan
Speaker 2: Wilson over the last couple I mean, I think he
Speaker 2: was just on kickoff.
Speaker 11: I think, yeah, he was in on bass downs when
Speaker 11: they were playing three linebackers and then special teams. He
Speaker 11: had one snap in the second half, And honestly, I
Speaker 11: don't think he's like he has lost the step.
Speaker 5: There's no doubt.
Speaker 11: Yeah, But I don't think he's been so bad that
Speaker 11: now he's just phased out. And I think that's a
Speaker 11: really interesting storyline that's transpired over I mean, it's week
Speaker 11: six it's not Week sixteen, right, And you know, has
Speaker 11: Barrett Hardner showed.
Speaker 5: Them that much?
Speaker 6: Now, if you look at the box score, played well,
Speaker 6: he had ten tackles.
Speaker 5: But I.
Speaker 6: Think when they watched the.
Speaker 11: Film, they're going to look at those linebackers and say,
Speaker 11: all right, we were pretty bad in that spot. But
Speaker 11: it is saying something that Logan Wilson has kind of
Speaker 11: throughout the past couple of weeks been phased out and
Speaker 11: now he's truly their third linebacker. It's tough about to
Speaker 11: be in for the veteran, especially after he was voted captain.
Speaker 11: And that's the reality, that's what he's facing. I would
Speaker 11: expect Bret Carter and Demetrius Knight to start again on Thursday.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would think so too. But man, I watch
Speaker 2: you watch a little bit. Because you get the multiview
Speaker 2: going on TV. They can watch different games that I'm
Speaker 2: watching Aaron Rodgers yesterday and he you know, especially with
Speaker 2: no Trey Hendrickson, Boy, you're asking that line and that
Speaker 2: defense to do a lot that they don't look like
Speaker 2: they're capable of as of today.
Speaker 6: Uh, there's no doubt. And and that's why.
Speaker 11: Starting off with points and finding a way to get
Speaker 11: going early on offense, that that is important because the Steelers,
Speaker 11: they're not a team that wants to win a shoot.
Speaker 2: Out either, right, They're kind of out.
Speaker 11: They want to play, you know, the ugly game that
Speaker 11: they played yesterday and then I'll break it open at
Speaker 11: the end. The that's pretty much their game script every week.
Speaker 11: And so this offense has to show up early. They're
Speaker 11: going up against a really good defensive front. The Steelers
Speaker 11: defensive front's awesome. Jalen Ramsey has been playing pretty well
Speaker 11: I think in Pittsburgh at corner, and so it's going
Speaker 11: to be a tough task, a tough test, and it
Speaker 11: really can you get a lead, and then if you
Speaker 11: get a lead, the Steelers an't good at running the football.
Speaker 6: Force Aaron Rodgers to throw it, and when he does, you're.
Speaker 11: Gonna have to get pressure on him. Like it's all
Speaker 11: simple things. It's much easier said than done. But those
Speaker 11: are some of the things that they're gonna have to do.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 2: We'll find out that Thursday, and it's a quick week
Speaker 2: and unfortunately we're gonna have time to get healthy too,
Speaker 2: because you got some guys being a Trey Hendrickson comes
Speaker 2: to minds the biggest there as well. And man, you
Speaker 2: feel like this is the season right here? Am I
Speaker 2: wrong about thinking it that way on Thursday night? Already?
Speaker 5: No? You're not. This is it? I mean two in
Speaker 5: five verses three and four.
Speaker 11: And if you get to three and four, then you
Speaker 11: have a tie breaker over the Steelers and you play
Speaker 11: him again a month later, right, and so you can
Speaker 11: you have to sleep Pittsburgh. If you sleep Pittsburgh, and
Speaker 11: you look and you got the Jets on the schedule,
Speaker 11: You got the winnable games on the schedule in your home.
Speaker 6: You don't go on the road again.
Speaker 11: It's been a lot of road games, I mean four
Speaker 11: out of six on the road, right, you don't go
Speaker 11: on the road again until November sixteenth when you play
Speaker 11: Pittsburgh and there's a.
Speaker 6: Buy in there, but you're at home.
Speaker 11: This is when, like Zach Taylor for the past, but
Speaker 11: the winds are gonna come. The winds are gonna come. Well,
Speaker 11: the winds need to come right now. They do, and
Speaker 11: now's the time, and they can they can salvage the
Speaker 11: season if they've went on Thursday night. But it certainly
Speaker 11: starts with a winner on primetime against the Steelers.
Speaker 2: Big ask, we'll find out. We'll have the call for you.
Speaker 2: James Rapines covering it for you as he does every
Speaker 2: Monday morning, so chopping it up before the lunch. How
Speaker 2: we're always talking to Bengals football this morning on the
Speaker 2: losing end, that's four straight losses. Bengal's open at five
Speaker 2: and a half point dogs against the Steelers on Thursday
Speaker 2: Night football, James Repeat, catch him over at SI's Bengals
Speaker 2: Talk dot Com. That puts a lockdown podcast as well. James,
Speaker 2: all the best, Buddy, appreciate you, Thanks, G.
Speaker 5: I appreciate you all right.
Speaker 2: Quick time out speaking of sports and the like, of course,
Speaker 2: the news this morning that the Bearcat the ledgend, the
Speaker 2: Hall of Famer Jim Kelly Junior has passed away, the
Speaker 2: long time color analysts for Bearcat Football alongside our buddy
Speaker 2: Dan Horde, passing away today after his health battle. So
Speaker 2: prayers to everyone a UC and Clifton, especially the Alley
Speaker 2: family and UH and Danny for that matter, took newnack
Speaker 2: gay for a long time.
Speaker 5: UH.
Speaker 2: Willie's on the way coming up at twelve o six
Speaker 2: here on the Home of the Best Bengals coverage, seven
Speaker 2: hundred W DOWT, Cincinnati