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Speaker 1: Hike Sincy three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati, sponsored in

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Speaker 1: part by Cincy Shirts. Cincy Shirts all sincey all day.

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Speaker 1: This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome back out on number two, thanks to

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Speaker 2: Cincy Shirts.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for listening on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 2: It's Tuesday. You know who it is.

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Speaker 3: Our guest from Fox nineteen, Joe Daniman, standing by to

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Speaker 3: join us right now.

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Speaker 2: Joey D, what's going on? How are you?

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Speaker 4: Can I tell you about the best thing that happened

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Speaker 4: to me on Sunday?

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Speaker 2: Please?

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Speaker 4: I think Austin knows where I'm going with this one.

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Speaker 4: So Austin and I meet up in the press box

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Speaker 4: and we're sharing a hello, a happy new Year. And

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Speaker 4: here comes Charlie Goldsmith. Seeing Austin and I speaking to

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Speaker 4: each other, he comes up, puts his arm on each

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Speaker 4: of our shoulders, leans in in, stays ye, Charlie Goldsmith.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know you had it in you man. He

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Speaker 4: made for a great.

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Speaker 5: Sunday and he just walked away. It was a walk

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Speaker 5: off from Charlie. It was impressive with the walk off.

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Speaker 3: That's fantastic. Now, before we get into the Bengals Joe,

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Speaker 3: people wonder this time of the year, the season ends,

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Speaker 3: it's grueling. A lot of people have been playing hurt,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people play through injury. And you yourself,

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Speaker 3: have you made it through the Have you made it

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Speaker 3: through the season healthy?

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Speaker 2: Are you good? Are you one? As we get into

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Speaker 2: the off season.

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Speaker 4: Mode, I believe my designation for Sunday was probable in

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Speaker 4: parentheses glass in his heel.

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Speaker 5: So here's the story.

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Speaker 4: We have a glass shower door that was off one

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Speaker 4: of its hinges, and we called to have someone come

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Speaker 4: over and fix it, and he couldn't come for a

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Speaker 4: couple of days because it was a holiday season. Lo

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Speaker 4: and behold, one day later, it falls off the hinge

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Speaker 4: and it shatters all over the floor. So you can

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Speaker 4: imagine how many pieces of glass or inside of a

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Speaker 4: master bedroom which has wood floors. Yeah, we swept, we mopped,

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Speaker 4: we sweat, we mopped, knowing there would be small, tiny fragments.

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Speaker 4: You can't get them all. So, unbeknownst to me, at

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Speaker 4: some point in the last ten days, I stepped on

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Speaker 4: a piece of glass and it embedded in my heel.

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Speaker 4: Now you know the phrase million dollar wounds from Forrest Gump.

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Speaker 4: Do you step on glass in your heel? That's a

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Speaker 4: million dollar wound. Man. There's almost no nerve endings there.

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Speaker 4: The whole heel is calloused up. It's an easy process

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Speaker 4: to deal with a small piece of glass in your heel,

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Speaker 4: but you have to get it done. I waited until

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Speaker 4: the end of the season to get the procedure done.

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Speaker 4: This morning, the glasses out. I'm recovering. I will be

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Speaker 4: ready for off season workouts in a couple of months.

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Speaker 5: So how many nights do you have to spend in

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Speaker 5: the hospital for a procedure like that?

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Speaker 4: Outpatient, I would get it out fifteen minutes.

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Speaker 2: You have to wear a boot, do you have to

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Speaker 2: any protective padding?

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Speaker 5: They use a laser.

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Speaker 4: I I don't even have a band aid on now.

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Speaker 4: The doctor that came in to do the procedure brought foutures,

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Speaker 4: brought gaus, told me the whole gauze, asked me how

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Speaker 4: I do with blond and I'm like, now, wait a minute,

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Speaker 4: a small piece of glass. And then she went into mode.

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Speaker 4: And when she went down there with the scalpol, I

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Speaker 4: was confident because said, oh, this is going to be easy.

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Speaker 4: And she popped it right out to go.

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Speaker 5: I thought you were going to say, she said, yeat,

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Speaker 5: and then I was going to be like wow.

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Speaker 4: I would have jumped up and down. Man. Yeah, I

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Speaker 4: would have called right into the show then and interrupted programming.

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Speaker 2: Well we are.

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Speaker 3: We're happy to hear that you're good to go, because

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Speaker 3: it's going to be a very eventful and important offseason

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Speaker 3: for the Cincinnati Bengals. We heard yesterday not only uh

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Speaker 3: that Zach Taylor and Duke Tobin are going to be

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Speaker 3: back from Mike Brown. Zach Taylor also alluded to the

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Speaker 3: fact that he doesn't expect to make any staff changes.

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Speaker 3: In your opinion, is that the right way to go

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Speaker 3: about this?

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Speaker 4: ME say this answer about yesterday's press conference with Zach Taylor,

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Speaker 4: and I say this with all respect to the Bengals

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Speaker 4: head coach. There wasn't anything he was going to say

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Speaker 4: yesterday that I was really interested in once we found

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Speaker 4: out that Duke Tobin is going to talk on Friday,

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Speaker 4: because there's so many questions that need to be answered,

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Speaker 4: need to be answered by Duke. Now, certainly there are

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Speaker 4: things and questions that Zach had to address. The coaching changes,

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Speaker 4: there aren't going to be any I thought was interesting,

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Speaker 4: And you know, I would still like some more grilling

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Speaker 4: of Zach Taylor on the idea of him and play

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Speaker 4: calling and that going forward in future years, and if

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Speaker 4: maybe Dan Pitcher could take over that and Zach could

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Speaker 4: kind of reallocate himself to more of a head coaching

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Speaker 4: position and less of a play calling position. But that's

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Speaker 4: for another day.

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Speaker 1: This to me is.

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Speaker 4: About what happens on Friday and the questions that are

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Speaker 4: going to be asked of Duke Tobin and the answers

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Speaker 4: he's going to give for what now feels like a

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Speaker 4: crossroads off season for this franchise, with a quarterback who

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Speaker 4: seemingly felt disgruntled at the end of the season and

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Speaker 4: a wide receiver who at the end of the season

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Speaker 4: kind of danced around questions about the future of its

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Speaker 4: head coach. So Zach's back, That's the way it is

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Speaker 4: if it were me, And I do think Zak has

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Speaker 4: his qualities and his positives, and I do think that

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Speaker 4: the Bengals can win with him, and I do think

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Speaker 4: they will win with him next year. But if it

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Speaker 4: were me, it feels like it's time for a change.

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Speaker 4: You see the energy change that can come across the

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Speaker 4: NFL when new head coaches are brought in. I look

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Speaker 4: at Chicago, I look at what New England has done

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Speaker 4: in less than two seasons. I look at what Jacksonville

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Speaker 4: has done. Those are the three ones that people are

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Speaker 4: pointing to is how quickly things can change with a

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Speaker 4: new voice and new energy. But that's moot. Now. Zach

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Speaker 4: Taylor's back next season, and I think if they get

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Speaker 4: their roster right, certainly the Bengals have proven in the

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Speaker 4: past they can win with him, and I think they

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Speaker 4: will win with him if Duke Cobin and the front

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Speaker 4: office gets the roster right starting this off season, which

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Speaker 4: I think now becomes the biggest off season I can

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Speaker 4: remember for the Cincinnati begle.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's kind of my follow up. Duke and Zach

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Speaker 3: are back, the coaching staff is back, and yet it

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Speaker 3: feels like, as you just mentioned, it's the biggest offseason

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Speaker 3: to date. Where does the confidence come from that they

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Speaker 3: can get it right, because I think things change. To

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Speaker 3: be honest, you can go back to the twenty twenty

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Speaker 3: three draft class and you could start to say there

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Speaker 3: are some good draft picks in there, but you no

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Speaker 3: longer have the ability to wait three years for these

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Speaker 3: draft picks in twenty twenty five to be considered successful

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Speaker 3: or not. You're in twenty twenty six, you've got to

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Speaker 3: hit on guys immediately. So the question for me that's

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Speaker 3: going to kind of carry the off season. How how

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Speaker 3: can it be different if it's the same core group

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Speaker 3: making the.

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Speaker 4: Decisions, Because that same core group does have one off

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Speaker 4: season to point to when they got it right, when

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Speaker 4: they spent the money, when they didn't go out and

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Speaker 4: get the biggest names on the market. Instead, they made

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Speaker 4: a lot of very sharp, good decisions on defense that

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Speaker 4: built the defense that ultimately helped carry the Bengals to

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Speaker 4: a Super Bowl appearance and nearly a Super Bowl win

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Speaker 4: and then an AFC Championship appearance the next year by

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Speaker 4: going out and getting proven players on Sunday this last

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Speaker 4: off season, obviously the emphasis was drafting, developing, and then

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Speaker 4: this year trying to grow those players into positions that

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Speaker 4: maybe they just weren't ready for. But they now have

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Speaker 4: that experience, and I think you could argue the Bengals

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Speaker 4: probably have a handful, maybe five guys that you feel

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Speaker 4: comfortable bringing back next year and being part of a

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Speaker 4: starting defense that will be ready to win playoff teams.

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Speaker 4: That means at least half the defense need to be replaced,

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Speaker 4: and you're not finding that many starters in the draft.

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Speaker 4: You might find one, if you're lucky, you might find two.

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Speaker 4: But I'm not sure you can feed it to the

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Speaker 4: fan base that we're going to find two rookie starters

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Speaker 4: on defense in the draft. If you find a guy

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Speaker 4: like a Tale Downs, a Sunny Styles, a Ruben Bang

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Speaker 4: likely won't be there and you say that's the plug

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Speaker 4: and play guy on day one of the defense, I

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Speaker 4: think the fan base will say, yeah, sure, we buy that,

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Speaker 4: But what about the other four positions? What about the

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Speaker 4: other five positions that need to be filled with proven commodities.

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Speaker 4: They did it in twenty twenty one. The Bengals have

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Speaker 4: the money to spend, They have the urgency now that

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Speaker 4: it's not good enough to have the recent track record

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Speaker 4: of saying, okay, we try to draft six players on

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Speaker 4: defense and start those players and see what they could do,

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Speaker 4: and obviously it backfired and blew up in our face

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Speaker 4: and we lost another year of Joe Burrow. So this

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Speaker 4: offseason has to be about spending the money to find

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Speaker 4: day one starters for this defense next year. Good players,

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Speaker 4: competent players, proven players. That to me is what has

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Speaker 4: to happen. That's the question that needs to be asked

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Speaker 4: of Duke Tobin. This window is unique in Cincinnati to

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Speaker 4: have Joe Burrow, Jamar Chasen t Higgins. We talked about

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Speaker 4: it so many times. It's unique to have this cores

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Speaker 4: all in their prime, all ready to win. Is it

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Speaker 4: understood within the front office and for Duke Tobin personally

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Speaker 4: that they have to adapt again to what is a

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Speaker 4: unique scenario and change the idea of draft, develop, retain,

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Speaker 4: and go out and buy some players that are going

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Speaker 4: to be Day one starters for this defense next year.

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Speaker 4: That has to be the emphasis. That has to be

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Speaker 4: the urgency. And I hope in a small way what

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Speaker 4: Mike Brown put out this week of including Duke Tobin

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Speaker 4: in that statement lights a bit of a fire for

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Speaker 4: Duke Tobin to understand that has to be the path

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Speaker 4: here in the offseason.

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Speaker 5: That's exactly what I was about to ask you. Do

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Speaker 5: you feel like him being included in that statement was

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Speaker 5: him being put on notice? Is it grouping him and

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Speaker 5: Zach together as if to say, if they don't get

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Speaker 5: it done this year, the next year will be having

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Speaker 5: a change. How did you perceive Duke's inclusion in the statement.

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Speaker 4: My interpretation was that he's on notice, and I think

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Speaker 4: they have one year to get this right. And what

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Speaker 4: does right mean? What does that look like? I think

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Speaker 4: we'll have to see it, and I think we'll know

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Speaker 4: when we see it in twenty twenty six whether it's

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Speaker 4: right or whether it's wrong. But I do think the

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Speaker 4: fact that Duke Tobin for the first time publicly has

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Speaker 4: been put on notice by Mike Brown to me screens

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Speaker 4: that the urgency is here, the seed is hot, it

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Speaker 4: has to be done right this offseason or else. And

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Speaker 4: you know, there's a lot of people listening to this,

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Speaker 4: that a lot of people who follow this team who

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Speaker 4: won't believe the or else until they see it. But

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Speaker 4: this different. It was different to see his name in

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Speaker 4: that statement. It is different for Duke Tobin to be

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Speaker 4: getting in front of TV cameras and beat writers on

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Speaker 4: Friday and answer a lot of questions that a lot

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Speaker 4: of times he doesn't have to answer until the combine,

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Speaker 4: and by then, most of the time a lot of

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Speaker 4: the focus is pushing forward to what's next and not

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Speaker 4: what went wrong. I think there's a forum here to

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Speaker 4: really hash out what went wrong and what the plan

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Speaker 4: is to do it better this coming off season. The

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Speaker 4: other question is, to me, is why is an organization

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Speaker 4: and this goes back to Mike Brown in the front

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Speaker 4: office as well, an organization that's willing to change its

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Speaker 4: ways in the way to do contracts and invest so

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Speaker 4: much in the Big Three they did, Why wouldn't they

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Speaker 4: invest in more smart people to help Duke Tobin do

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Speaker 4: his job better? Because what we saw last year in

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Speaker 4: the draft and maybe also in free agency, and it's

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Speaker 4: not just last year, its recent years, is this idea

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Speaker 4: that they aren't evaluating talent well enough defensively for this

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Speaker 4: team to find a quick fix in one off season

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Speaker 4: and maybe two off seasons, because we're still wondering if

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Speaker 4: they can get this done now in two off seasons

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Speaker 4: as they look forward to this one. So if you

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Speaker 4: invest that much into those players and the understanding that

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Speaker 4: they're championship caliber players, why wouldn't you invest a little

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Speaker 4: bit more into smart football people who can help you

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Speaker 4: make these decisions and get it right when you're dealing

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Speaker 4: with millions upon millions of dollars in contracts. That to

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Speaker 4: me is the other question that I'm curious of Duke

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Speaker 4: Tobin on Friday. Does he feel like he has enough

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Speaker 4: around him to help evaluate properly the kind of defensive

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Speaker 4: talent they need to get in here and fix this

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Speaker 4: defense overnight?

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Speaker 5: Why do you think Duke's talking now? Like what changed?

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Speaker 5: Why would he talk now as opposed to he never talks?

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Speaker 5: Why now?

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Speaker 4: Fascinating questions? A question I've thought about and an answer

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Speaker 4: I don't know that we have. I do know there's

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Speaker 4: been a lot of pressure put internally from the folks

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Speaker 4: on the Bengals beat to have this. A lot of

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Speaker 4: questions that Dak Taylor's been asked in the last month

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Speaker 4: are questions, quite honestly, that are more for Duke Tobin

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Speaker 4: and less about Dak Taylor. And I just wonder if

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Speaker 4: there's a little bit of pressure from the beat put

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Speaker 4: on Duke Tobin and Bengals pr to make this happen,

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Speaker 4: or if there's just so much pressure from the fan base,

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Speaker 4: with so many unanswered questions and so many people beating

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Speaker 4: on whatever social media drum they have, why can't we

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Speaker 4: get these questions answered? Why can't someone step in front

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Speaker 4: of a microphone and answer these questions? That maybe they

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Speaker 4: finally decided, okay, it is time not to hide and

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Speaker 4: to put someone out there to answer some of these questions.

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Speaker 4: But specifically why now, Why this is different? I don't know.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it goes hand in hand with Duke Tobin being

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Speaker 4: put on notice. Maybe there's a little more accountability put

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Speaker 4: on Duke Tobin by the front office here that if

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Speaker 4: he's going to be a guy that they ride or

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Speaker 4: die with this year, he had to be accountable for

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Speaker 4: some of the questions of why it's gone wrong here

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Speaker 4: in the last couple of years. So I think it's

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Speaker 4: going to be very interesting how Duke handles this on Friday,

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Speaker 4: because while he answers a lot of questions at the Combine,

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Speaker 4: sometimes he's very guarded with those answers, and I'm curious

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Speaker 4: to see if he lets his guard down and answer

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Speaker 4: some really difficult questions he's going to face on Friday.

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Speaker 2: Question that I had.

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Speaker 3: It feels like the offense is pretty close to being

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Speaker 3: a finished product other than some depth maybe wide receiver

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Speaker 3: number three. But Dalton Reisner has made it very clear

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Speaker 3: he wants to be here. Wouldn't that be the type

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Speaker 3: of move that sends him message that maybe This does

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Speaker 3: feel different than years past. If you can get that done,

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Speaker 3: sure that up, and then move on to the next

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Speaker 3: thing of your list. It feels like in the last

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Speaker 3: off seasons they've been so caught up in you got

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Speaker 3: to get the Chase deal done, got to get the

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Speaker 3: Higgins deal done, the hendrickson and then you can worry

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Speaker 3: about the rest. Would it signal something different to you

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Speaker 3: if a Dalton Reisner deal has done soon.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the slam dunk move to start the offseason

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Speaker 4: is to get Dalton Reisner back in Cincinnati. A guy

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Speaker 4: that's staying publicly over and over again. He wants to stay,

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Speaker 4: and he has played some of his best football here

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Speaker 4: in Cincinnati and really seemed to stabilize and jail the

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Speaker 4: offensive line to play. What Zach Taylor and Joe Burrow

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Speaker 4: have both said on the record is the best the

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Speaker 4: offensive line has played during their time here in Cincinnati.

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Speaker 4: We also have just a chemistry factor. You can see

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Speaker 4: the burgeoning bromance between Amrius mem and Dalton Reisner. And

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Speaker 4: if a Marius Mimms is drafted to become one of

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Speaker 4: these guys that you build around for four or five years,

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Speaker 4: you know, having a guy like Dalton Reisner next to him,

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Speaker 4: not only on the line, but in the locker room,

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Speaker 4: has made a difference for a Marius Men's He's blossomed,

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Speaker 4: he's grown this year, and you're seeing exactly what the

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Speaker 4: Bengals thought they could get in a guy like a

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Speaker 4: Marius Mens. And I do think a lot of that

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Speaker 4: has to go back to what Dalton Reiser has brought

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Speaker 4: next to him and stabilizing that side of the line.

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Speaker 4: To your point, Tony about sending messages and doing things different,

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Speaker 4: why not approach DJ Turner right now? Why not approach

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Speaker 4: Jack Hill right now? Chase Brown can sit here and

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Speaker 4: have the we can have the debate about case Brown

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Speaker 4: in a second contract. Why not approach him.

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Speaker 5: Kim Taylor, Brent's not doing anything for a few days.

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Speaker 4: Wow, Yeah, that's interesting. The funny thing is none of

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Speaker 4: us had a clue that was happening until today. It was.

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Speaker 4: It was funny because you know, Cam Taylor Brick did

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Speaker 4: his exit interviews yesterday, and Cam's a great dude. We

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Speaker 4: enjoy talking to Cam, and you know he's talking about

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Speaker 4: possibly a change of scenery, they're possibly coming back. And

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Speaker 4: then when all the hammers turned off and the beat

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Speaker 4: writers walked away, he started doing like the these daph

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Speaker 4: ups and hugs as if to say, well, it's been real,

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Speaker 4: see you guys later. So we kind of understood that

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Speaker 4: off the record, Cam Taylor Britt really doesn't probably see

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Speaker 4: a future for himself in Cincinnati. I could be wrong,

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Speaker 4: but that's kind of how I read that one. But

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Speaker 4: to wrap up the point, the idea of bringing Dalton

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Speaker 4: Reisner back and then maybe rewarding some of the guys

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Speaker 4: that you were earlier than you did and stop waiting.

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Speaker 4: Maybe that sends a message too that this is going

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Speaker 4: to be a different offseason as well. And I think

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Speaker 4: that goes back to some of the change that Joe

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Speaker 4: Burrow was talking about late in the season.

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Speaker 3: It is it's going to be a fascinating offseason. But

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Speaker 3: for you at Fox nineteen, just because football's done, the

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Speaker 3: work is never done. Especially now that you are off

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Speaker 3: the injurine list. You're healthy. What does that mean? What's next?

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Speaker 3: What do you got going on at Fox nineteen.

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Speaker 4: So we transition now from Sunday Nights Bengals Breakdown at

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Speaker 4: eleven thirty transitions to the Cincinnati Sports Show is back.

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Speaker 4: We're still waiting on Tony and Austin's first appearance on

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Speaker 4: the CSS. We're still waiting for Tony and Austin's first

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Speaker 4: appearance at Bengals now. Our last Bengal show, Guys, was

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Speaker 4: off the hook, standing room only for Andrea Yoshibas in

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Speaker 4: week eighteen, and I kept looking across the crowd. Even

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Speaker 4: my wife and some of my kids came, and I

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Speaker 4: still can't find Tony and Austin. So I'm putting it

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Speaker 4: out here now next year, season three of Bengals. Now,

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Speaker 4: I need one appearance from Tony and Austin at Bengals now.

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Speaker 4: Can I be guaranteed one time next year?

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Speaker 2: I can't guarantee.

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Speaker 5: I can't speak for Tony because he's very flaky, but

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Speaker 5: for me personally, I will be there. Yes, I guarantee it.

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Speaker 2: It's a guarantee standing.

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Speaker 4: That's all I want.

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Speaker 2: It's a guarantee.

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Speaker 5: Guarantee. Wow, Okay, I'm in.

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Speaker 4: It's known forever I'm in.

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Speaker 3: And I wonder how much the heel injury stopped this.

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Speaker 3: Was there a plan before the heel injury to head

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Speaker 3: to Morgantown for tonight's game?

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Speaker 5: Oh wow?

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Speaker 4: There was not the next big trip for the Fox

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Speaker 4: nineteen Sports department will be a trip that's spring training.

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Speaker 4: Oh so we've got a big meeting this week to

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Speaker 4: try to start lining up the dates when we're going

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Speaker 4: out to talk to the Cincinnati Reds in Goodyear, Arizona

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Speaker 4: about the twenty twenty six season. Fun times Man.

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Speaker 5: Joe is the leader of the Fox nineteen Sports department.

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Speaker 5: How important is it, you know, with Jeremy and Gabby

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Speaker 5: and Reagan and now Charlie and yourself and Austin and

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Speaker 5: so many others to have chemistry depart chemistry? How important

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Speaker 5: is chemistry?

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Speaker 4: Do you think chemistry matters? But talent matters more than chemistry,

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Speaker 4: And a good leader isn't a I'm afraid they have

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Speaker 4: more talented people on his staff than himself. Right. The

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Speaker 4: smartest leaders say they surround people with people who are

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Speaker 4: smarter than themselves. And that's what I've done. I've got

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Speaker 4: more talented people around me than myself. So I feel

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Speaker 4: comfortable every single day going into work understanding that, yes,

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Speaker 4: chemistry matters. Yes, I have to kind of see the

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Speaker 4: world through the eyes of a young woman in her

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Speaker 4: mid twenties when I'm forty five years old and don't

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Speaker 4: even understand how to use technology at the time on

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Speaker 4: my phone. But they help me and the fact that

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Speaker 4: they're very talented on television makes me think very good

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Speaker 4: about the chemistry and my source to chemistry and continuity.

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Speaker 3: Ever ever, a thought, Jodah, maybe to prolong the injury

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Speaker 3: a little bit, maybe you know, get a bell something

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Speaker 3: for the home that you could have help with all

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Speaker 3: the wife and kids.

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Speaker 4: The first thing my wife said to me is she said,

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Speaker 4: are you able to run? I said, yeah, I'm able

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Speaker 4: to run. So she expects me to get back out

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Speaker 4: on the streets here after this phone call and knock

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Speaker 4: out a quick four miles back to baby.

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Speaker 2: Dang, quick four miles. Get after a Danaman.

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Speaker 4: Nobody cares.

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Speaker 3: Work harder man preach well, said Joe, preach Joe, Thanks

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Speaker 3: so much for your time.

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Speaker 2: Have a great day.

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Speaker 5: See pal yeat Joe Daniman Fox nineteen. Always a pleasure.

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Speaker 5: He's not kidding. Charlie comes up to us. We're in

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Speaker 5: the middle of a conversation. He just says, yeat and

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Speaker 5: walks away.

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Speaker 3: So good man, Charlie Goldsmith, Uh, we will return with

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Speaker 3: your talkbacks. That happens next on the Home of the

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Speaker 3: Bengals ESPN. Fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Hey Alexa