1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:00,520 Speaker 1: Dying. 2 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 2: Somebody. Hope your nose is better. 3 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 3: Michael. 4 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 2: It was really good listening to you. I was wondering 5 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 2: if you could. 6 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 4: Tell us who's going to be on tomorrow in your 7 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 4: place after I Heart Cans you're asked. 8 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 5: For for uh you know what you said about well, 9 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,240 Speaker 5: I said about the great I heeart now which you 10 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 5: can apparently you can take the settings and you get 11 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 5: adjusted to play back the podcast anyway that you want to. 12 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 3: Just hand it to your kid or grandkids. They'll figure 13 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 3: it out. 14 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 5: Although some people in the text line say that they're 15 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 5: millennials and they don't need to do that. In fact, 16 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 5: they're nine year old doesn't know how to operate a smartphone. 17 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 5: So that's probably a good millennial parent right there. That's 18 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 5: a good millennial parent right there. Yep, pretty damn good. 19 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 5: This whole story about the American Society of Plastic Surgeons 20 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 5: fascinates me because think about this. Now, obviously it's a 21 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 5: it's a group, so not everybody in the group, you know, agrees. 22 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 5: Imagine that it's like everybody in this group, all you 23 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 5: groopers agree, right yeah, just part about the podcast, But 24 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 5: it's how a cultural phenomenon takes over and suddenly is 25 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 5: controlling everybody's thinking. This is in many ways not different 26 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 5: than COVID. So if you're the outlier, like like I 27 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 5: have been for years now, saying that I think this 28 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 5: is morally wrong, I think it's medically unethical. I think 29 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 5: that physiologically and psychologically it is doing damage. And we 30 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 5: were we were excoriated, well, you know, your anti trans 31 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 5: your transphobia, you know, whatever. It is. No, Actually, I'm 32 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 5: just trying to be a rational human being, and I 33 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 5: think that if we're going to you know, tell kids 34 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 5: you can't enter into contracts that you can't drink, you 35 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 5: can't drive, you can't do certain things until you're reaching 36 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 5: a certain age. Insurance companies, as somebody pointed out, doesn't 37 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 5: really consider you to be an adult to the age 38 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 5: of twenty five. But hey, you want to go into 39 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 5: your doctor are your parents were like, you know, because 40 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 5: little Jimmy wants to play with Barbie dolls or little 41 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 5: Susie wants to play with the with the you know, 42 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 5: army tanks or something, that there's something wrong another kids. 43 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 5: We've lost the ability to allow kids to be kids, 44 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 5: and the consequences of that in is society that has 45 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 5: no room or leniency for different points of view gets 46 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 5: locked into these cultural debates that suddenly whatever it is, 47 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 5: the ism you know, trans your transphobia, whatever the phobia 48 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 5: ism is, is essentially the same as calling you a racist. 49 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 5: It's designed to shut down debate into discussion. You can't 50 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 5: talk about it anymore. And that kind of gets to 51 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 5: my whole idea that as a nation, we're losing our 52 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 5: ability to have rational, open discussions about things we disagree about. 53 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 5: So of course I'm giddy over the fact that the 54 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 5: American Society of Plastic Surgeons the ASPS, has come out 55 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 5: and said, oh, you know what, maybe we shouldn't be 56 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 5: doing this, Which is why I want to go through 57 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 5: the regret and detransition data and the mental health outcomes, 58 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 5: just because it gives me an opportunity without saying so, 59 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 5: to say I told you so. 60 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 2: This is where things get contentious. 61 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 5: Early studies suggested regret rates of less than one percent 62 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 5: for gender affirming surgeries, but as I said, those studies 63 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 5: typically followed patients for only one or five maybe five 64 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 5: years at the most, regret was very narrowly defined. You 65 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,839 Speaker 5: had to explicitly state regret about the surgery rather than 66 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 5: just ceasing to identify as a transgender or anywhere on 67 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 5: that spectrum. Recent data suggests that de transition rates may 68 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 5: be higher, much higher than previously thought, particularly among those 69 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 5: who transitioned as adolescents, the very people that we said, 70 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 5: or at least I were saying, Hey, you know, why 71 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 5: are we mutilating children's bodies over something that seems to 72 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 5: be usual for a kid to experiment, to wonder, to 73 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 5: be confused, because that's part of growing up, which I 74 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 5: haven't done, which is why I'm still curious, interesting, confused, 75 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:27,600 Speaker 5: all of those things. Then you had the anecdotal reports 76 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 5: of the d transitioners that started increasing very significantly, though 77 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 5: I would add that just because the numbers increase, that doesn't, 78 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 5: you know, the number of anecdotes increases, that doesn't translate 79 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 5: necessarily to hardcore data. So that's the regret and detransition 80 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 5: data that they considered. But what about the mental health outcomes? 81 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 5: The claim that gender affirming surgery reduces suicide risk and 82 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 5: transgender youth that get circulated and cited all the time, 83 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 5: but less well supported than you would commonly believe. Most 84 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 5: studies show correlation, they don't show causation, and studies often 85 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 5: don't control for confounding variables. You've got the socioeconomic status 86 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,239 Speaker 5: of the family, you've got family support or non support, 87 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 5: you've got concurrent almost like a comorbidity of the mental health. 88 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 5: Of health treatments in some studies have shown no significant 89 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 5: difference in suicide rates post surgery when properly controlled, but 90 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 5: there is a very age specific gap. Critically, almost no 91 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 5: none of the high quality research, what little there is, 92 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 5: specifically examines outcomes for surgeries performed before the age of eighteen. 93 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 5: Wait a minute, that's the very group of people that 94 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 5: we're talking about. Yet there's really no high quality research 95 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 5: that examines that cohort that age group. Because most studies 96 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 5: populations are predominantly adults and miners represent a small subset 97 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 5: whose outcomes are never separately analyzed. So you take those 98 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 5: under eighteen, and you lump them in with anybody over 99 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 5: the age of you know, nineteen or older that had 100 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 5: some sort of transition surgery, and you lump all of 101 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 5: that together and come to one conclusion that's not very scientific. 102 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 5: So here's what the ASPS says is missing. The organization 103 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 5: itself is beginning to argue that before recommending permanent surgical 104 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 5: interventions from miners. You ought to have at least four things, 105 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 5: one long term outcome data at least ten years showing 106 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 5: sustained benefits. We're anywhere near that point yet. Think back, 107 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 5: when did this become a air quote? Here a theme 108 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 5: predominantly post COVID, I should me, not not even post COVID, 109 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 5: but from COVID, when we losted around twiddling our thumbs, unless, 110 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 5: of course, you were an essential employee, or you were 111 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 5: one of the chosen few. Because you were, you were 112 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 5: chosen as the government for to be a winner, so 113 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 5: you got to stay open. Everybody else stayed home twiddling 114 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 5: their thumbs. Kids got Oh, that reminds me how I 115 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 5: do want to read you an email that I got? 116 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 5: So the kids stayed home, and so what happens when 117 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 5: the kids stay home and they suddenly find themselves not 118 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 5: being able to socialize, not being able to deal with others? 119 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: There is. 120 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 5: I just have to say that, if if I can 121 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 5: find it, maybe it came to one of my personal accounts, 122 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 5: not unheard, excuse me for just one moment, No, not 123 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:54,119 Speaker 5: that one? Uh here, yes, no names tried sending yesterday, 124 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 5: and I think this is this is why I and 125 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 5: scientifically put the code and all the lockdowns in the 126 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 5: same time period that this detransitioning became a theme. Because 127 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 5: the mental health disaster that was COVID is summed up 128 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 5: in this email that I got yesterday from someone named 129 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 5: David Michael. 130 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: My youngest son. I'm not going to give you his name. 131 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 5: My youngest son got caught up in the COVID crap 132 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 5: September of twenty eighteen. He was a sophomore in high school. 133 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 5: He got arrested at school. He caught four weeks of 134 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 5: suspension until the next school board meeting. During this had 135 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 5: two weeks in juvenile detention, followed up with home restriction. 136 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 5: October of twenty eighteen, the board expelled him. The court 137 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 5: system then took a full year to find him not 138 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 5: guilty of what he had been charged with. Now only 139 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 5: what he was charged with, but he was found He 140 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 5: was acquitted, found not guilty. Now that's after he had 141 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 5: been suspended, expelled, and then goes through a trial October 142 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 5: twenty nineteen. He was not allowed to return to a 143 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 5: particular high school in Colorado. Had you restart following the 144 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 5: following semester January twentieth at another high school in Colorado, 145 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 5: no friends, no school bus from our home. Then COVID hits. 146 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 5: He graduated in January of twenty one, no friends, no ceremony. 147 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:29,439 Speaker 5: He never recovered from this. This child killed himself the 148 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 5: night of October twenty two, twenty twenty five. Broke my 149 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 5: heart to read. 150 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 2: That now. 151 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 5: Not tied necessarily to transgenderism, in fact, not tied at 152 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,959 Speaker 5: all to transgenderism. But that's why I put COVID and 153 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 5: the mental health problems that it created as the time 154 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 5: when I start hearing at least or paying attention to 155 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 5: all the transgender stuff. Why because that's when all the 156 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 5: mental health breakdown begins to occur. So go back to 157 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 5: what the plastic surgeon society is saying, there's no long 158 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 5: term outcome data. You need at least ten years or 159 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 5: so to show sustained benefits or problems. Comparison studies between 160 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 5: those who receive surgery as minors versus those who waited 161 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 5: until adulthood just simply doesn't exist. And in this one 162 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 5: hits home with me about COVID better understanding of comorbidities, 163 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 5: because many gender questioning youth have concurrent autism spectrum disorder 164 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 5: or ADHD or depression, anxiety, or histories of trauma to 165 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 5: those outcome to those conditions affect surgical outcomes. I don't 166 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 5: think it takes a rocket size reason a medical degree 167 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 5: to say yeah, probably so there's at least some correlation 168 00:10:55,640 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 5: and probably some causation. And then there's no neuro biological 169 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 5: research on gender identity development through adolescents and early adulthood 170 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 5: or all of those things are missing. And yet we 171 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 5: just pushed and pushed and pushed and said we got 172 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 5: to go do this because well, it's it's the the 173 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 5: medical industrial complex, and it's a subset of the medical 174 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 5: industrial complex. They started pushing this, and they started pushing 175 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 5: it through all of the means that we consume information, 176 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 5: and then they take it and once they start pushing 177 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 5: it out that oh, you know, this is a thing. 178 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 5: It's very real, and if you say something that doesn't 179 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 5: fit the orthodoxy, then you are a denier or you 180 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 5: are you know, you're a racist, or you're you got 181 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 5: some sort of transphobia, whatever it is. 182 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: No, we're just looking at. 183 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 5: It logically and rationally and it doesn't make any sense. 184 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 5: And that's all within the political and cultural context. It 185 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:02,239 Speaker 5: just got pushed in our faces. It's impossible to discuss 186 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 5: the decision of these plastic surgeons that without acknowledging these 187 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 5: broader contexts. Legislative enforcement, well for twenty states have since 188 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 5: this all started, past laws that restrict or ban gender 189 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 5: affirming medical interventions for minors. These laws are politically motivated. 190 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 5: They're often championed by legislators with political little medical expertise, 191 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 5: but they have indeed created a legal and professional liability 192 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 5: landscape that medical organizations are going to have to navigate, 193 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 5: so regardless of the reasons for them doing it. Because 194 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 5: I quite frankly think that the way I've worded that 195 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 5: deliberately is probably true to some degree, but I think 196 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 5: also I could word it a different way. 197 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,599 Speaker 2: Those laws were passed not because. 198 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 5: They were politically motivated, although I do think they are 199 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,120 Speaker 5: in some cases. But I think people recognize why are 200 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 5: we allowing this to happen, and why are we not, 201 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 5: as state legislators or members of Congress, saying this is 202 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 5: the kind of activity that in a highly regulated profession 203 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 5: like medicine, that we ought to as lay people, as legislators, 204 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 5: set the policy in this country that we're not going 205 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 5: to we're not going to allow this. Of course, you 206 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 5: got the litigation conserves, because of course we are reltigious society. Interestingly, 207 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 5: and I honestly don't have much data about this yet, 208 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 5: but de transitioners started filing malpracticed lawsuits against the surgeon, 209 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 5: surgeons and the clinics, and their basically claim was that 210 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:50,359 Speaker 5: they got they got rushed or pushed into these irreversable 211 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 5: procedures without adequate psychological evaluation and certainly without the type 212 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 5: of informed consent that you would want to get from 213 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 5: a buyer and a parent before you start manipulating or 214 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 5: emasculating their bodies. Now, those mostly have not succeeded yet, 215 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 5: but it is indeed a growing legal risk, and I 216 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 5: wish them well because I believe the deed transitioners do 217 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 5: have legitimate malpractice reasons for these doctors pushing this without 218 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 5: the proper psychological evaluation and certainly without this type of 219 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 5: informed consent that outlies here are all of the problems 220 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 5: that you might encounter here. You know, I go in 221 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 5: for that stupid retina surgery. What a couple of weeks ago, 222 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 5: Oh my god, the informed consent page was like three 223 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 5: pages long, and it was a simple retin appeal. I 224 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 5: go to have my penis cut off. It's like, okay, okay, 225 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 5: no problem. You know, you might believe a little bite 226 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 5: might get in infection. Really what about the psychological damage? 227 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 5: And then of course there was a professional pressure and 228 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 5: shame the doctors for this, but a lot of doctors 229 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 5: report feeling pressured within whatever their institution is, either their 230 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 5: clinical practice, particularly if it's you know, a corporate owned practice, 231 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 5: or if they're associated with the hospital, they're just pushing this. 232 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 5: They're getting pushed to adopt an affirmation only approach. And 233 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 5: then if you raise questions about the evidence or the 234 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 5: appropriate patient selection risk, do. 235 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: You then get labeled transphobic. 236 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 5: So the peer pressure obviously hits doctors like it with 237 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 5: anybody else. And you can't discuss this without thinking about 238 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 5: the ideological capture. Critics a pediatric gender medicine will argue 239 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 5: that some medical institutions and the professional organizations became ideologically 240 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 5: captured by the transgender advocacy groups NGOs, different trade associations, 241 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 5: different medical groups and subsets of medical groups that prioritized 242 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 5: affirmation over rigorous evidentiary evaluation. So they the asps is 243 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 5: their policy decision can actually be read as a course correction. 244 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: So practically it's a recommendation, it's not a mandate. 245 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 5: But if your doctor is one of those doctors that says, well, 246 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 5: you know, I'm a member of such and such board. Yeah, 247 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 5: I'm a member of the American Pediatric Society, of the 248 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 5: Board of Pediatric Surgeons, or whatever it might be, and 249 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 5: they say, well, they're recommending. Maybe this will at least 250 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 5: cause doctors who have felt that peer pressure to stop 251 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 5: and say, maybe we ought to do a more thorough 252 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 5: psychiatric evaluation, maybe ought to refer you to a psychiatrist first, 253 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 5: and then we'll talk about that. What a huge difference 254 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 5: that would make. Insurance companies they're going to have to 255 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 5: figure this out, the coverage policies. 256 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: Think about the political aspect of it. 257 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 5: You and I, as taxpayers, often end up paying for 258 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 5: transgender surgeries in prisons. Now, granted they're usually adults, But 259 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 5: explain to me why I should pay for something that 260 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 5: might be a psychological disorder, a psychiatric disorder. Why should 261 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 5: I pay for their you know, to manipulate their bodies. 262 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 5: Why I don't see that that is part of my 263 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 5: responsibility as a tax paying member of this community, and 264 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 5: of course it gives ammunition to legislators who want to 265 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 5: put an end or at least put restrictions on this, 266 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 5: and it likely signals, i think most importantly, or mainstream 267 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:52,879 Speaker 5: American medicine is headed on this issue. It's not a panacea, 268 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 5: doesn't solve all the problem. But the largest professional organization 269 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 5: of plastic surgeons in this country just said, you know what, 270 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 5: we don't want to do this, and they're not basing 271 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 5: it on politics or religion or cultural war nonsense. 272 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: They're looking at it the. 273 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 5: Same international medical evidence that cause Sweden, Finland, the United Kingdom, 274 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 5: Norway to pump the brakes, and they're saying that the 275 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 5: Emperor has no close when it comes to the quality 276 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 5: of research that supports the interventions that we're doing in 277 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 5: this country. So maybe, maybe, just maybe, for once, the 278 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 5: medical community is finally catching up to those of us 279 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 5: who said, are you really thinking about this in the 280 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 5: right way? And don't forget this is ours chance to 281 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 5: win That thousand bucks is coming up in the next 282 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 5: five minutes. Based the Mercedes Bens of Littleton, Mercedes of Littleton. 283 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: Dot com, Michael Mike oh whatever, or is it Mike Michael. 284 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: I tried to breed in and breathe out, but I 285 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: got confused that I did backwards, so I breathed out 286 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,360 Speaker 1: first and taught me to pass out. 287 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 2: So well, brmings at my door. 288 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: Someone, Do I not go because that's a reverse order, 289 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: or do I go because that's the right order. 290 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 2: I'm confused. 291 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 5: Well, just call my lawyer. You know, if I'm liable 292 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 5: for anything going on, just talk to my lawyer. And 293 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 5: I don't own anything. I don't have any assets, so 294 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 5: you know, and and if you know, if you want 295 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 5: to garnish my wage as well, that's going to get 296 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 5: you a diet cocadae. And that's about it, So don't 297 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 5: worry about that. I had a text message that is 298 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 5: going to derail the show just a little bit. But 299 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 5: nonetheless I want to I want to share it with. 300 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 3: What's that text line? 301 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 2: That number is three three one zero three. 302 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 3: Keyword micro Michaels oh three three one oh three, micro Mike. 303 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 5: Got it three three one zero three mic or Michael 304 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 5: uh ninety four eighty three, writes Mike, A big mistake 305 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 5: was made in Minnesota that could influence the upcoming midterm elections. 306 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 2: In a bad Way. 307 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 5: A guy who is part of the Trump team decided 308 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 5: to pull seven hundred federal agents out of there. That 309 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 5: could be seen as a sign of weakness, and there 310 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 5: may be many Republicans who stay home and don't vote. 311 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 5: Trump's a reverse the decision and use the Insurrection Act 312 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 5: and send in the military. Don't necessarily agree or disagree, 313 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 5: but here is here's what happened. Here's Tom Homan. The 314 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 5: mortars are announcing the withdrawal. 315 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 4: Given his injuries and unprecedented collaboration. As you's own the 316 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 4: need for less law enforcement officers to do this work 317 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 4: and stay for environment. I have announced the effective immediately. 318 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 4: You will draw down seven hundred people effective today, seven 319 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 4: hundred law enforcement personnel. They have also fully integrated the 320 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 4: DP personnel and the icro O t in structure under 321 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 4: one enified command. Doctor change Man is in one Change Command, 322 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 4: a Marvin of fortunate operation I ever met an up with. 323 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 4: There's one Chance Command. 324 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 5: That's where we're moving forward. 325 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: Now. 326 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 5: That's all good in terms of fixing the chain of 327 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 5: command and integrating Customs and Border Patrol along with the 328 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 5: ice E ro O agents. When they go do these 329 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 5: raids and they do these arrests. We heard that also 330 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 5: at one of the newscasts, and Dragon and I both thought, well, 331 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 5: what do you mean by that you have of effectively 332 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 5: gotten unprecedented cooperation? The short answer is sort of, but 333 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 5: I might put an asterisk on the whole topic about 334 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 5: to say that about the same size as Lake Minnetonka 335 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 5: what Homan is claiming. So he announces that seven under 336 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 5: federal agents, which is about twenty five percent of the force, 337 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 5: are being withdrawn effectively mediate immediately from Minnesota writ large, 338 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 5: citing that quote unprecedented cooperation from state and local authorities. 339 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 5: That means he's leaving about two thousand agents in place, 340 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 5: down from roughly three thousand during peak deployment. But the 341 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 5: reality is really kind of complicated. So let's go back 342 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 5: what was already happening before the surge, Before the surge 343 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 5: of all these ICE agents. We know, we talked about 344 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 5: this at length on neither of the week They or 345 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 5: the Weekend program that Minnesota State Prison system, the Department 346 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 5: of Corrections, had been honoring every single ICE detainer request 347 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 5: since at least twenty twenty three. They notify ICE weeks 348 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 5: before a prisoner is released from a state prison. They 349 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,880 Speaker 5: even coordinate the transfers and they literally hand the prisoners 350 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 5: over the ICE agents on camera. So the Department of Corrections, 351 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 5: as if you recall from previous programs, they've been screaming 352 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 5: this from the rooftops, even when sixteen Minutes or CBS 353 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 5: or whoever, it was manipulated that interview so that it 354 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 5: sounded like that everybody was cooperating. We know that's simply 355 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 5: not true. Doc. The Minnesota Department of Corrections even with 356 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 5: so far as to launch a website called Combating DHS Misinformation. Now, 357 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 5: the Department of Corrections of Minnesota has successfully transferred all 358 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 5: eighty four state prisoners that ICE wanted to detain in 359 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,159 Speaker 5: twenty twenty five. But the sticking point is not the 360 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 5: Department of Corrections, it's the county jails. And this is 361 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 5: where it gets messy. Minnesota has eighty seven counties. Every 362 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 5: county has its own elected sheriff, and every county has 363 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 5: its own policies. Now, what you're not hearing is that 364 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 5: there are about seven or eight counties in Minnesota that 365 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 5: are already cooperating. Cass crowweing Atasca, Millie, Lax, Sherburne, Freeborn, and. 366 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 2: Kadiyahee something like that. I don't know. Some Indian they 367 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 2: might guess. 368 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 5: They actually have formal agreements with ICE, and they've had 369 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 5: those formal agreements with ICE long before the surge. And 370 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,760 Speaker 5: some of these counties, these seven counties, actually will house 371 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 5: the detainees for the Feds. 372 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: I'm sure they're getting you. 373 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 5: I'm sure the FEDS are reimbursing them for it, so 374 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:31,479 Speaker 5: they're going to house them for it. 375 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 2: But here's the problem. 376 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 5: The counties that are not cooperating are the big ones 377 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 5: Hennepin County, which is Minneapolis, in Ramsey County, which is 378 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 5: Saint Paul. They do not routinely allow access and they're 379 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 5: not going to hold people in ice detainers at all. 380 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 5: So why are they resisting, Well, don't shoot the messengers. 381 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 5: I'm just telling you why they are resisting. They're relying 382 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 5: on a twenty twenty one federal court ruling in Minnesota 383 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 5: that said holding people solely on ice detainers, which I 384 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 5: agree are not judicial warrants, is unconstitutional. Then the Attorney 385 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 5: general in Minnesota, that dirt bag Keith Ellison, issued an 386 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 5: advisory last year in which he gave his state attorney 387 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 5: general legal opinion that says state law prohibits detention based 388 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 5: on immigration status alone. So the counties have been successfully sued, 389 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 5: and Nobles Counties they've been sued, and the others Kennepin 390 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 5: and what was the other one where Ramsay where Saint 391 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 5: Paul is. So those jails process about seventy thousand bookings 392 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 5: a year. 393 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 2: Some people walk in hours. 394 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 5: Unlike prisons with set release dates, jails can't always predict 395 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,399 Speaker 5: when somebody will post bail or get released, So the 396 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 5: numbers are going to come and go all the time. 397 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 5: So here's my best guess from just the reporting. In general, 398 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 5: some of the counties that were sitting on the fence 399 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 5: are probably now more willing to notify ICE when somebody 400 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 5: with a detainer gets booked and allow ICE to come 401 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 5: and pick them up at the jail before their release, 402 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 5: rather than forcing ICE to go chase them down in 403 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 5: the community. Even the Minnesota Sheriff's Association has been meeting 404 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 5: with Tom Homan, and their executive director is cautiously optimistic 405 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 5: while hinting at the word contract that there may be 406 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 5: some contract involved. But here's the kicker, here's where it 407 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 5: gets messy. Even Tom Holman's own timeline undercuts his narrative 408 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 5: because many of the so called worst of the worst 409 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 5: that he's been touting as recent captures haven't been in 410 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 5: Minnesota custody for years. The Fox affiliate in Minneapolis, Fox nine, 411 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 5: only found four ICE detainees who had spent jail time 412 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 5: in the past year. One guy they highlighted for child 413 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 5: sex abuse last time he was behind bars in. 414 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 2: Minnesota twenty fifteen. 415 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 5: So the prosecution wants you to believe the Homan and 416 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 5: Trump and all of those that are making the case. 417 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 5: They want you to believe that Minnesota was a lawless 418 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 5: sanctuary state, forcing them to deploy the three thousand federal agents. 419 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 5: Maybe true in some counties, not true in others. And 420 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,640 Speaker 5: that's where it gets really convoluted. 421 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 6: Brownie, I'm just a dumbass, all far boomer, and I'll 422 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 6: figured out how to play the podcast in any order 423 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 6: I want without handing. 424 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 3: To my grandkid. 425 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 6: Oh, I got you to just start pushing buttons and 426 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 6: see what happens. 427 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 2: I have a great day. 428 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, eventually you'll just fall into it, you know, just 429 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 5: you know, some something, it will work out. I'm always 430 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 5: amazed just one stupid little topic can just be carried 431 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 5: on forever and ever. By the way, how is your nose? 432 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 3: It's good because I haven't had to blow my nose today, 433 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 3: so yeah. 434 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 5: Will you has been really dry, so I'm not surprised. 435 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 5: And you blew your nose like you were trying like 436 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 5: a volcano erupting back there. I could hear it all 437 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 5: the way in here, so maybe you ought to calm 438 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 5: down just a little bit. 439 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: On Blowing your nose is. 440 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 3: Not how you're supposed to blow your nose. 441 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: We're just supposed supposed to blow your brains out when 442 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 2: you do it. 443 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 3: Oops. 444 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 5: Candy YOHI somebody used to live in that county now 445 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 5: lives here told me that's how you pronounced it. 446 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,359 Speaker 2: Candy you candy yo hi, Candy yo hi. 447 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 5: I think that Tom Holman's own timeline kind of undercuts 448 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 5: the narrative that he's pushing. Many of the worst of 449 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 5: the worst, as I said, have been in custody for years, 450 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 5: or have not been in custody for years, as I said. 451 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 5: Fox nine found only four detainees who had spent time 452 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 5: in jail in the past year, and one of the 453 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 5: guys that Holman was highlighting for child sex abuse hadn't 454 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 5: been in jail since twenty fifteen, So the borders are 455 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 5: and DHS, well, you'd believe that Minnesota was this lawless 456 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 5: sanctuary state forcing them to deploy three thousand federal agents. 457 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 2: Don't. 458 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 5: Maybe it was overkill, maybe it wasn't, But the facts are, 459 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 5: the state prison system was already in full compliance. The 460 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 5: real issue was some county jails, but not all of them. 461 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 5: The county jails that happened to be the worst defenders 462 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 5: happened to be Hennepton County, and I keep forgetting the 463 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 5: county at Saint Paul's in, but what Minneapolis Saint Paul. 464 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 5: So the Twins cities were ground zero for this whole issue. 465 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 5: And then the legal barriers, some which I agree with, 466 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 5: some which I do not agree with, made full cooperation 467 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 5: legally problematic. 468 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 2: And of course, of course, if you're already. 469 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 5: A sanctuary state and you're a sanctuary city like Minneapolis 470 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 5: from Saint Paul, then you're going to hang your hat 471 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 5: on cases that I happen to disagree with and you're 472 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 5: not going to cooperate. So the legal barriers that get 473 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 5: thrown up by these judges made fully cooperating with DHS 474 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 5: and ICE problematic if not impossible in some cases. And 475 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 5: as I said, some of the people that ICE is 476 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 5: picking up weren't just released. They'd actually been out for years, 477 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 5: which is why they're out in the neighborhoods. 478 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 2: But let's take it. 479 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 5: To the next step, because the next step is I've 480 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 5: seen I've seen these groups, these NGOs, these organized teams, 481 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 5: the signal chat groups, all of them putting up barriers 482 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 5: in the street. That is a counterinsurgency Marxist revolutionary tactic. 483 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 5: You start putting up your own barricades, you start creating 484 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 5: no go zones, you start deciding who could travel down 485 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 5: your city block and who cannot. That's the antithesis of 486 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 5: the kind of country that we live in. You cannot 487 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 5: do that, and so ICE has to go down that street. 488 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 5: They have a legal right to do. So that creates 489 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 5: the confrontation, which is what those people want. 490 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 2: ICE doesn't want the confrontation. So ICE has a choice. 491 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 5: ICE can either say, you know, move over, we're coming through, 492 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 5: and if you try to obstruct us, you're going to 493 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 5: be charged. And if you're going to be charged, we 494 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 5: have to arrest you to do that. So they make 495 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 5: they not Ice. The dirt bags, the protesters, the Marxists, 496 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 5: the communists, the insurgents. They make the decision that they're 497 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 5: going to keep ICE from enforcing federal law. So now 498 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 5: ICE is either going to turn around and not enforce 499 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 5: the law, or they're going to confront them. And when 500 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 5: they confront them, they're giving the protesters exactly what they want. 501 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 5: So so from my point of view, you keep pushing, 502 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 5: and I understand that Americans don't like to watch law. 503 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 2: Oh you love to watch you know. 504 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 5: In Cis you like to watch some TV show that's 505 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 5: about the cops and you watch it, you know when 506 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 5: the cops wrestle somebody and you think, oh, that's really bad, 507 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 5: and then you see it in real life you're like, ooh, 508 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 5: I don't want that. Well, that's the real stuff, that's 509 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 5: what really goes on, and I don't think I should 510 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 5: back off.