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Speaker 1: Jess Your has the NFL coaching trade deadline already pasted.

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Speaker 1: Leader Fan Fan Radio Network and k f a n

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Speaker 1: dot com. Two minutes and twenty nine seconds past three

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Speaker 1: o'clock Central Standard time, we welcome you back to a

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Speaker 1: very special, potentially combustible afternoon Ardvark here on a well

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Speaker 1: relatively ball me for this time of year, weekday afternoon

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Speaker 1: in the twin cities of Minneapolis and Saint Paul. My

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Speaker 1: name is Dan Barrero. I host the program. Guardsy produces

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Speaker 1: the show, and we are delighted you are along for

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Speaker 1: the full three and a half hour ride today. Are

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Speaker 1: we out a little early? Three to fifteen? Three? Six

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Speaker 1: fifteen meets well three hours, fifteen minutes, three hours and

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Speaker 1: fifty minutes sixt me. So we're out at six fifteen today.

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Speaker 1: You're out earlier than that. You got goal and go

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Speaker 1: for women's basketball duties. We have a legitimate opponent tonight,

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Speaker 1: don't we, marktt Yeah, Rick macjeris Al McGuire.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 1: They they they're off to a nice little plucky start themselves,

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Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken. So maybe we learn a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about the Golden Golfer Women's Club available to

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Speaker 1: you via the iHeartRadio app. Do we have a dedicated

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Speaker 1: Golden Go for women's basketball channel? We sure do, Okay,

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Speaker 1: the plus ninety six exactly it so be easy. What

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Speaker 1: times kickoff tonight seven o'clock, seven pregame tonight, So Blake

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Speaker 1: Moore will be in eventually as well, probably after four

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Speaker 1: o'clock to fill in for you as you prepare for

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Speaker 1: your other duties. We have a very full broadcast today

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Speaker 1: from a guest lineup standpoint, including Louis at five point thirty,

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Speaker 1: Mitch Lawrence at four thirty, first time we've caught up

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Speaker 1: with him in a while, and Kevin Seaffert is scheduled

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Speaker 1: for three point thirty this evening. In the history of

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Speaker 1: the National Football League, have have we ever seen a

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Speaker 1: coaching trade head coaching trade between teams, either in the

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Speaker 1: off season or really juicy during a season where it's

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Speaker 1: coach for co coach for coach. Has it ever happened

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Speaker 1: where it's coach for coach, Because I'm wondering if in

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Speaker 1: the old days, like the Decatur Staley's days, the early years,

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Speaker 1: the Salad days, the National Football League, whether when it

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Speaker 1: was a little more loosey goosey whether it might have happened.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's happened anytime in my lifetime. I

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Speaker 1: don't recall it. We have had trades to acquire the

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Speaker 1: services of a coach, yes, where the other teams had

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Speaker 1: to give up draft picks right, Yes, a lot of them.

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Speaker 1: Have we ever had coach for coach head coach for

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Speaker 1: head coach trade in the National Football League? And if not,

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Speaker 1: why not? Wouldn't it be a wonderful thing. Can you

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Speaker 1: imagine the attention a coach for coach in season trade

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Speaker 1: would garner in this twenty four to seven. It'd be fascinating.

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Speaker 1: It would be endless because the coaches go to us.

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Speaker 1: Good question, does everybody go, yeah, that's it. That's where

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Speaker 1: it gets probably even more complicated that It's probably why

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Speaker 1: they haven't done it. But I think it would be interesting.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you've got an idea. I do. I

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Speaker 1: have an idea. I don't think it's likely to happen.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even here to say I'm endorsing it. But

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Speaker 1: can you make the argument, if that such a trade existed,

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Speaker 1: if such a possibility existed, that the Green Bay Packers

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Speaker 1: and the Minnesota Vikings should embark on a head coach

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Speaker 1: for head coach deal in which our guy Koc goes

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Speaker 1: to the Packers. I don't like it. Matt Lafleur comes here.

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Speaker 1: It's an uncanny series of conversations I heard this morning

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Speaker 1: largely involving your guy, Dan Orlovsky. And you know what

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Speaker 1: Orlovsky's number one complaint regarding the Green Bay Packers offense

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Speaker 1: and their head coach what's his name, Lafleur, Matt Lafleur,

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Speaker 1: what it was today.

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Speaker 3: I'm assuming that it's you don't let your quarterback throw enough.

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Speaker 3: He always runs the ball on second and ten. He

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Speaker 3: never stops running the ball on second and ten, And

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Speaker 3: I'm going, you can't make this stuff up.

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Speaker 1: The issue here is we even had I think Sue

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Speaker 1: I had a column that our guy Koc has to

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Speaker 1: run the ball. That was the headline, run the ball,

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Speaker 1: the old you know, run period, the period ball period.

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Speaker 1: So the complaint, as we laid out yesterday, was we

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Speaker 1: don't run enough on second and five, or second and ten,

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Speaker 1: or on third and one, and in Green Bay, or

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Speaker 1: at least according to Arlawski, it's their guy is just

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Speaker 1: too stubborn about sticking to the running game. So maybe

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Speaker 1: we solve the issues because we know what Koc prefers

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Speaker 1: to do. He wants to sing it, he wants to

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Speaker 1: fling it, he wants to throw it over and over again,

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Speaker 1: no matter the circumstance, And stop with the nonsense that,

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Speaker 1: but we can't really run it when it's a false

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Speaker 1: start and it's first and fifteen. That's false. It's convenient,

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Speaker 1: but it's false. It's provably false. By the way, if

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Speaker 1: you have a running game that's working, but beyond that,

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Speaker 1: what do we need If that's true that we need

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Speaker 1: to run it more. Laflor loves running it. Matt Laflour

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Speaker 1: might love calling more running plays for us. So is

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Speaker 1: it possible these two coaches are in the wrong place

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Speaker 1: at the wrong time, where in both cases there are issues.

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Speaker 1: Right the Packers have a great defense and they again

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Speaker 1: had great difficulty at home scoring. Their coach is under

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Speaker 1: siege for that. Our coach is under siege right now.

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Speaker 1: Maybe not at the same level, but pretty serious. Regarding

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Speaker 1: this bizarre reluctance to run the ball. I just find

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Speaker 1: it so fascinating that within the same division you have

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Speaker 1: both of these controversies going on at the same time.

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Speaker 1: With very different conclusions. In one case, we're running too much,

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Speaker 1: in the other case, we're passing too much.

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Speaker 3: And you know how you have to have in the NBA,

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Speaker 3: when you make a trade, the salaries have to match up,

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Speaker 3: or at least they have had to historically. Yes, if

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Speaker 3: you're comparing BMIs, I feel like it's an even trade.

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Speaker 3: They're both good in the BMI, right, so you're swapping out, Yes,

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Speaker 3: one good BMI for another BMI. You're not losing anything,

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Speaker 3: so everybody should feel fine about that aspect, but neither.

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Speaker 3: You don't think either team should demand a little more

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Speaker 3: to make up now the BMI. I guess loss makes

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Speaker 3: it now pretty equal. Koc's probably taller. I was going

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Speaker 3: to say, you could probably just leave all the coaching

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Speaker 3: clothes in the closet.

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Speaker 1: You Sep is much more likely to wear a ball

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Speaker 1: cap in Lafleur, right, I don't know. Does Lafleur ever

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Speaker 1: wear one? I don't think he wears one of the sidelines,

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Speaker 1: does he? No? Not? Usually not? Usually Our guy always

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Speaker 1: wears a ball cap the talking where some people they

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Speaker 1: don't even like looking at him, don't have the ball

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Speaker 1: cap on.

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Speaker 3: He shows up like at Wolves game yeah, it is jarring.

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Speaker 3: He has mentioned Lafleur's hair though from time to time,

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Speaker 3: and that he wouldn't wear a hat if he had

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Speaker 3: Lafleur's hair.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a fascinating deal, and you could make

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Speaker 1: the argument that the moral of this story is that

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Speaker 1: critics on both sides are overreacting and this sort of

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Speaker 1: I guess, crystallizes life of a National Football League head coach,

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Speaker 1: where you're constantly under the microscope. For example, Eagle, who's

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Speaker 1: the Eagles head coach, Sirian thinking of being under siege,

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Speaker 1: he's under siege after winning the game. Well, he's constantly

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Speaker 1: under siege. You know, he just won a Super Bowl,

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Speaker 1: but he's under siege because he had the audacity, the temerity.

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Speaker 1: The goal to go for it on was a fourth

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Speaker 1: and five and he throws a deep pass that by

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Speaker 1: definition opens the door to the Green Bay Packers moving.

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Speaker 1: All they had to move really was I think twenty

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Speaker 1: five yards to get a game tying field goal, end

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Speaker 1: of the game, Street point game. So it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a league where again, all these coaches are paid handsomely,

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Speaker 1: So I'm not suggesting that you should feel sorry for them,

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Speaker 1: but that's all the talk from, at least from Olawsky. Now,

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Speaker 1: I don't know in Green Bay, whether you know, the

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Speaker 1: head coach is getting questions after the game like are

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Speaker 1: you coaching? You feel like you're coaching for your job,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty frontal, pretty aggressive, and he basically said

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Speaker 1: he always feels like that's what he's doing. So here's

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Speaker 1: what's weird to me about it, though, Aren't they still

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Speaker 1: in first?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: Are they? They actually have one less victory because of

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Speaker 1: the time, correct, So they went from first place to

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Speaker 1: what's tied for second or third. I don't know where

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Speaker 1: they are, but they're not out of this thing yet.

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Speaker 1: It's a weird loss, I guess I'm just trying to understand.

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Speaker 1: Is it because allegedly they've had their quarterback in place

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Speaker 1: and they should be as a result, they have to

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Speaker 1: be going for it right now, where our head coach

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Speaker 1: has a continuous honeymoon period because interestingly, he and the

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Speaker 1: front office chose to accept of four options probably for

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, the least desirable option going with JJ McCarthy.

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Speaker 1: Now that's convenient. I guess I'm kind of scratching my

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Speaker 1: head about that, especially as we see Sam Darnold continue

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Speaker 1: to fling the ball around like he might be all

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Speaker 1: Pro this season. Don't text me. I know the postseason.

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Speaker 1: He didn't play very well in the postseason. We saw it,

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Speaker 1: we talked about it. We are indeed aware of it.

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Speaker 1: Let me know if you like that trade. What do

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Speaker 1: you think of that deal? Or would you want something else?

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Speaker 1: Thrown in from the Green Bay.

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Speaker 3: Packers, the fan and two men and a junk truck

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Speaker 3: want to give you a shot to win Bonus Bucks

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Speaker 3: the keyword cash.

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Speaker 1: A Dean from Hermantown Rights Dan, I don't want any trade?

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Speaker 1: Are we just bored? I think both coaches are pretty good.

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Speaker 1: But Lafleur is kind of an ass bag. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean? Why is he an ass bag? What does

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Speaker 1: he coaches? The Packers? Probably he has a crankier looking

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Speaker 1: demeanor on the sidelines. I'll give you that, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know that that necessarily I don't know that he

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Speaker 1: should necessarily be judged on that. Uh, that trade only

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Speaker 1: needs several other pieces, added Brian Guttikins in the Player

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Speaker 1: Evaluation staff. Maybe we could get some value out of

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Speaker 1: the draft and build long term success from within. Wow,

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Speaker 1: Savage in Monticello sounds like guards. He has a cold.

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Speaker 1: Bring in Blake more early, so Justin could take a

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Speaker 1: nap before calling an entire I know, basketball game. We'll

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Speaker 1: see how it goes tonight. If you are swapping coaches

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Speaker 1: with the Packers, why not make it a package deal

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Speaker 1: and swap quarterbacks too, Lafleur and Jay Love for Koc

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Speaker 1: and Jmack. Interesting, that's controversial. Well, according to Orlovsky, Jay

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Speaker 1: Love's not the problem. The head coach is a problem.

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Speaker 1: He's being too careful with him. He's too worried about turnovers. Well,

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Speaker 1: some of those turnovers hurt him last year, I think.

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Speaker 1: So he's basically saying let it loose, just Jordan Love

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Speaker 1: just fling the ball around. Just let it go, which

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Speaker 1: might be true, but also might just be convenient, because

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Speaker 1: there's a downside to letting any quarterback, including him, just

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Speaker 1: letting the ball go. Dan, did you see Darnold in

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Speaker 1: the playoffs?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 1: Seriously, at least he got us to the playoffs. I

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Speaker 1: like the idea of the deal. I would ask that

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Speaker 1: to bring it up with Gerby, you know close circuit

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Speaker 1: to six one two. Guy, I'm not going to read

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Speaker 1: your text. Do you have any understanding how this program works?

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Speaker 1: Do you really think I'm suggesting this tradeing? Literally? Do

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Speaker 1: you not understan? And it's merely a device to discuss

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Speaker 1: just how fascinating we get, how this how crazed we

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Speaker 1: get that in one NFC North market it's run the

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Speaker 1: ball and in another NFC market it's start passing the ball.

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Speaker 1: That's the point of this discussion, that these two issues

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Speaker 1: should be rearing their heads at the very same time,

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Speaker 1: within the same division. It is fascinating to me. It

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Speaker 1: may be true in the in the case of the Vikings,

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Speaker 1: I think it is true. I haven't watched enough Packer

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Speaker 1: football to know that the problem there is is they're

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Speaker 1: trying to run the ball too much. But I will

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Speaker 1: say this, and I don't know Seafert can confirm this

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Speaker 1: or not. Is is what whose tree is Lafleur for? From? What?

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Speaker 1: What coaching tree is Matt Lafleur? Do we know? Do

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Speaker 1: we remember? We think shannyhn Shanahan, Oh, that's a Shanahan deal.

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Speaker 1: We think that makes sense. Washington together Shanahan is he's

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Speaker 1: he's he believes in the running game, right, he certainly

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Speaker 1: thinks that's an apprecipt. What about the Rams head coach?

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Speaker 1: What tree is he from? McVeigh Yeah, same, okay, samean

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Speaker 1: My gut tells me that that over a period of years,

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Speaker 1: both of those coaches have remained far more committed to

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Speaker 1: the run bit that our guy ever has ever has,

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Speaker 1: even though he also comes from the same tree. And I,

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Speaker 1: for the life of me, still don't understand why that

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Speaker 1: is why it's that difficult, especially now, especially you could

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Speaker 1: even argue two years ago when we had to use

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Speaker 1: like nine different quarterbacks, right, Yeah, I don't. I just

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Speaker 1: for the life of me, do not understand it. It

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Speaker 1: just doesn't make any sense to me. A couple other

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Speaker 1: good texts on this, with some other idea ideas. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of Gervishmidt cheap shots. Not surprisingly, Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: makes sense. We'll ask him who has the better BMI.

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Speaker 1: My interest in this trade is completely dependent on that,

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Speaker 1: if you had to make it a decision, because I

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Speaker 1: think they are close. Yeah, but Tom in Crystal wants

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Speaker 1: to know who's got They may both have great BMIs,

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Speaker 1: but that's not the question. Who has the better BMI,

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Speaker 1: I think more might Yeah, I think Lafleur. Does you

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Speaker 1: think our guy's thickening a little bit? No, I think

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Speaker 1: laflor is a little. I think.

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Speaker 3: For laugh back here, I think Lafleur's a little I

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Speaker 3: think he hits the weights a little harder than our guy.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, I think our.

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Speaker 3: Guy may have been influenced by TB twelve. I think

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Speaker 3: he does more stretching, you might be and like more peloton.

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Speaker 3: I think Lafleur can throw some weight around.

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Speaker 1: If we had, if we had the intrepid beat reporting

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Speaker 1: in this town that we deserve, we know the answer

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Speaker 1: to this question already. That would have been. That would

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Speaker 1: have been that we would have the analytics, we would

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Speaker 1: have the raw numbers. I'm the b M. I of

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Speaker 1: our at least our head coach, and in Green Bay,

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Speaker 1: same thing. We would have a little bit more detail

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Speaker 1: on this. Fortunately we don't.

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Speaker 3: Why haven't we done a coach's combine at one of

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Speaker 3: the fifty off season meetings in like Palm Springs in

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Speaker 3: Florida and Arizona when they're.

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Speaker 1: At the Phoenician.

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Speaker 3: Why don't we just set up a couple of combine events?

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Speaker 1: And I got no problem with that. Andy Reid would

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Speaker 1: do it. Whose hair do you like better? The floor,

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Speaker 1: la floors or well can we never see? Ko KOs

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Speaker 1: is a hat guy, which I like better. As you

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Speaker 1: know I'm a hat guy. You're definitely a haad guy.

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Speaker 1: So I like Koc's overall vibe. I think better.

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Speaker 3: The floor is too heavy with like the vests too.

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Speaker 3: You know he were's too many layers. I don't trust

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Speaker 3: guys that layers. You don't like the layers. It's a

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Speaker 3: good look. You usually goes the sleeveless. Yeah, exactly, Yeah

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Speaker 3: you got family this. Yeah, well he definitely.

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Speaker 1: I think he's got more of the old style pat

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Speaker 1: Riley goop in his hair, yes, than Koc ever has

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Speaker 1: crush you. Yes, I think there's a lot of season

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Speaker 1: match more of a matt finished guy. I think, uh

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Speaker 1: solid Blaine. Wow. You know you don't always have to

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Speaker 1: draft your franchise quarterback. You are allowed to trade or

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Speaker 1: luck into signing him. Excuse me, just ask the Lions, Buccaneers, Seahawks, Colts,

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Speaker 1: Rams how it's working for them. There's a painful offense

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Speaker 1: to watch at times. I wanted Rogers for one year,

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Speaker 1: to give the kid one more year to learn while healthy.

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Speaker 1: But I was on board with committing to Darnold going

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Speaker 1: forward and admit I had little interest in Jones being

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Speaker 1: an option. We're haunted by the Herschel Walker trade. This

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Speaker 1: past offseason may haunt us more. I think this coach

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Speaker 1: may not be able to have the patience to coach

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Speaker 1: a young QB and requires a vet QB to run

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Speaker 1: his offense. We are wasting Jjay's as in Justin Jefferson's

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Speaker 1: prime years. I don't think it will happen, but I

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Speaker 1: hope it's not Diggs. Part two that would be ironic

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Speaker 1: being is that did Digs trade brought us JJ in

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Speaker 1: the first place. That's true, it did you know he's

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Speaker 1: onto something. Part of your problem and many fidens fans

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Speaker 1: the problem is that obsession with we got to draft

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Speaker 1: our guy, our franchise guy. We got to I'm sick

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Speaker 1: of this. We always do it the other way, and

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Speaker 1: I'm tired of it. I want us to draft our

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Speaker 1: franchise guy, but you gotta be you gotta draft the

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Speaker 1: right guy. You do. Wait till I unleash some analytics

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Speaker 1: on Seafert. Once correctable, it's one of the most amazing

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Speaker 1: I think it would be called a line graph that

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen relating to quarterback production so far this

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Speaker 1: season across the National I have a feeling I know

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Speaker 1: which way it's going. Have you seen this particularly one

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Speaker 1: I have brought to my attention? I thought it might

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Speaker 1: have been brought to your attention to I think the

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Speaker 1: Eagles thought that the fourth down pass it worst, would

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Speaker 1: have been picked off, almost like a punt. Then yeah,

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Speaker 1: but if if it's incomplete, it goes back to the

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Speaker 1: line of scrimmage. Is the problem. You don't make a

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Speaker 1: you don't do a play hoping for an interception. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. Not a smart idea, No, because

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Speaker 1: you're right, an interception would sir. If it's picked off

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Speaker 1: at the two, then you win in that, you know,

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Speaker 1: But how do how do you possibly You can't possibly

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Speaker 1: assume that that's the way that play is going to

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Speaker 1: be going to end, all right, Seaffert, As I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: is it will be in shortly. Mitch Lawrence on a

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Speaker 1: bunch of stuff. The Dallas Mavericks fired their general manager,

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Speaker 1: and we did not because we were so busy largely

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Speaker 1: with Viking stuff. Owed one of the great National Basketball

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Speaker 1: Association names of all time. The kids don't know the name.

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Speaker 1: They should. Lenny Wilkins has passed away, I think at

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Speaker 1: the age of eighty eight. Hell of a run, historic

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Speaker 1: career as a player and a coach. I covered him

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Speaker 1: in some playoff rounds. Mitch covered him a lot. So

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Speaker 1: Mitch Lawrence will be with us at four point thirty

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Speaker 1: to discuss that story kind of owed to a dead guy,

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Speaker 1: and some more current stuff as well, regarding several teams

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Speaker 1: in the National Basketball Association and including the Dallas Mavericks

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Speaker 1: getting rid of the guy who traded Luca away. Luigi

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Speaker 1: on your suddenly red hot with too many goaltenders. We've

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Speaker 1: gone from not sure we have one goaltender too, we

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Speaker 1: now have too many goaltenders and are we going to

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Speaker 1: be able to keep them both happy? It turns around

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Speaker 1: really quick in the National Hockey League. Louis on all

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Speaker 1: that and more at five point thirty. Kevin Siefferd is

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Speaker 1: in the house a text us at the branch on

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Speaker 1: Brian Cafe in text line six four six eighty six.

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Speaker 1: I know your research is limited in this particular area,

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Speaker 1: but if you had to, and I don't know how

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Speaker 1: you make this call without the numbers. But if you

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Speaker 1: had to just do eye test better BMI in your opinion,

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Speaker 1: the floor or KOC.

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Speaker 2: We're getting that hitting right away. Yeah, well because none

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Speaker 2: of the other states. So am I like the body

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Speaker 2: mass in Yeah, the lower you are the better allegedly. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think that's the way you want evaluated. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think I mean from like, I don't like. Oh

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Speaker 2: kind of looks pretty like if you look at pictures

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Speaker 2: of him when he played compared to now, like, he

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Speaker 2: he lost a lot. He's one of those guys that

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Speaker 2: lost a lot of weight after that.

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Speaker 1: He's old doweye.

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Speaker 2: When he played, he was he was built to take

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Speaker 2: quarterback right uh, and he's he's he's pretty thin now.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I don't know that that He's not gonna

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Speaker 1: be mad at you if you pick youth, not necessarily.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, won't go that far. That's that's who I go with,

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: All right, Again, we will take some questions and some

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Speaker 1: of them will be even more hard hitting than that.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 3: So the first Packer game is at Lambeau Sunday, November

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Speaker 3: twenty third. We'll have to monitor the coach's handshake and

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Speaker 3: get an up to date picture of the two of them.

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Speaker 1: Who would win, who would win.

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Speaker 2: In an arm wrestling or hand grip or what competition

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Speaker 2: between It doesn't Marty Wexer the third have like a

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Speaker 2: handgrip tow grip that I.

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Speaker 3: Think he had a hand one too, though, But to

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Speaker 3: grip he did it because he had advancement.

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Speaker 1: I think he's got leverage. I mean he probably.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure his arms are longer. Isn't that like a

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Speaker 2: big taller much or is he much taller?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, Connor is like he's like six six. He's

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Speaker 1: not that tall. I think he is. He's pretty tall.

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Speaker 1: Is listed?

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Speaker 2: They do that with coaches too, where he was when

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Speaker 2: he was at San Diego State, almost positive, that's what

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Speaker 2: they listened. I'd say he's probably legit six five and

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Speaker 2: on the floor five five six, and he's not that

390
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Speaker 2: not that true. He's in the he's in the average

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Speaker 2: five nine inch type ten.

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Speaker 1: He's interesting that right now there are two coaches under siege.

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Speaker 1: It may be worse in Green Bay than it is here,

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Speaker 1: But as I laid out, is O'Connell under siege? Well,

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Speaker 1: I think he's under siege for one thing in particular, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he's under siege like his jobs in Jeffardy, right.

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Speaker 1: I think he's under siege rightly in my opinion. And

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Speaker 1: this is not you've heard. You may say this a

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Speaker 1: million times for a curious belief that if it's second

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Speaker 1: and ten, you can't run on second and ten, you

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Speaker 1: can barely run on third and three. And what's I

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Speaker 1: said was ironic? Is that your guy for me, espn

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Speaker 1: Orlovsky was just blistering, uh, the Green Bay Packers head coach.

404
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Speaker 1: And what was or the Orlosky complaint? All he wants

405
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Speaker 1: to do is run the ball in second and ten.

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Speaker 1: He needs to throw, throw, throw an unleash, which I

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Speaker 1: think to me, the moral of the story is we

408
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Speaker 1: always have the answers. Yeah, And it's just fascinating how

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Speaker 1: different it can be where here right now, it's they

410
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Speaker 1: gotta he's got to stop falling in love with always

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Speaker 1: throwing the ball. And there it's he's got to stop

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Speaker 1: running the ball, has stopped being obsessed with the run. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: For me, it's always if it didn't work, they should

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Speaker 2: have done the other thing. That's that's usually the uh yes,

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Speaker 2: the answer for us and the out side you know

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Speaker 2: the differences between the Packers and the Vikings there is

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Speaker 2: that you have, you've developed your quarterback in Green Bay,

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Speaker 2: you're paying him two hundred and twenty million, like he's said, right, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's it.

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Speaker 1: I mean when when if you're.

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Speaker 2: Not and you're scoring seven points, if you're not willing

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Speaker 2: to air it out on second and ten or whatever, like,

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Speaker 2: that isn't your you know, you're I was. They did

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Speaker 2: go out and get Jacobs last year and they're paying

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Speaker 2: him a lot of money too. But like you know,

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Speaker 2: they they're supposedly have an established, developed quarterback, but in

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Speaker 2: the turnaround here would be like you don't, and so

428
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: like maybe the run makes more sense.

429
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,200
Speaker 1: That's fair. Although if you recall we've talked about this

430
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: before a bunch on this show. If you go back

431
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: to Aaron Rodgers, some of Aaron Rodgers' best years in

432
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: Green Bay, running the ball was always a part of

433
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 1: what who is the guy who's the coach?

434
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: Before la Floor Mike McCarthy. McCarthy, he was devoted to

435
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 2: that as well. Yeah, for sure, for sure.

436
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 1: And why has koc skipped over this even though everybody

437
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 1: else in the same tree has remained committed to it

438
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 1: as much as they want to be able to fling it.

439
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: So it's interesting, you know, he has, I would say,

440
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: in the last last season and and part of the

441
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 2: season sort of incrementally if you look at the numbers,

442
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 2: incrementally called more design runs, or at least they've they've

443
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 2: run more design runs, but it's incremental, And I just think, like,

444
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 2: that's who he is. Like that's if you get to

445
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 2: the core of I agree of what his philosophy is

446
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 2: for winning games. That is that you need to have,

447
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: at the very least, you need to have a certain

448
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 2: number of explosive plays because if you're just trying to

449
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: drive it, you know, seventy yards and fourteen plays every time,

450
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 2: you're only going to get so many bites of the apple.

451
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 2: Like that's just you just how many of those drives

452
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 2: can you have in the course of the game. You

453
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 2: need chunk plays to make scoring easier or to score

454
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,160
Speaker 2: and it's itself on those plays. And I think that's

455
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 2: just who he is. I think it, and I'm writing

456
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: about this for later this week.

457
00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: I think it.

458
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 2: Even though I think they've probably pulled back on some

459
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 2: of the things that they do, you know, with respect

460
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 2: to to the quarterback and his experience level, they're still

461
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 2: airing it out, you know, they're still I think they're

462
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 2: top you know, within the games McCarthy has played. I

463
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 2: think there's still in the top ten of the NFL

464
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 2: in design passes, you know, and he is an Alec

465
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 2: Lewis point of this out and I checked it out

466
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 2: in our in our True Media ESPN.

467
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: Database as well. Uh JJ.

468
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: McCarthy leads the NFL in air yards per attempt, and

469
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: air yards are like actually the actual amount of yards

470
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 2: it goes past the line of scrimmage before it gets

471
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 2: the receiver. So these are still downfield, you know, chunk

472
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,399
Speaker 2: attempts at chunk plays and some of it's his decision making,

473
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: but but those are the plays that are the way

474
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 2: he's interpreting the plays and reading the plays. So I

475
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 2: just think that that's you know, that's who well, but

476
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 2: here's who he is, Okay. But that's not an excuse

477
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: to me.

478
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: Because so if you're asking why it's happened, Yeah, that's

479
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: why it's happened, okay, And I don't disagree with that,

480
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: but we can always use that for any coach that

481
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: tries to overcompensate or does not give, at least in

482
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: theory his team the best chance to succeed is that, well,

483
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: that's just that's what he's made of. I would consider

484
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: that a flaw. I would consider that. And because you

485
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: and I have talked, you've quoted this stuff going back

486
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: two years the year we had Pastronaut, the fact that

487
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: he was so I guess enthusiastic about that approach that

488
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: he continued to throw the ball down field then more

489
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: than any team in the league. That's illogical. It might

490
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 1: be a little more logical with this guy, because even

491
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: though he's young, he's not considered a journeyman like Pastronaut was.

492
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: But I think to me it goes back to the

493
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 1: old thing of how you give any quarterback, especially one

494
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: just starting trying to get started, the best chance to succeed.

495
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: And I think what he's trying to do is put

496
00:27:54,800 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 2: him in some tough and difficult and potentially uncomfortable positions

497
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 2: and that that's in his mind. He said this explicitly Sundays,

498
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 2: that's where the growth is and so so.

499
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 1: Then he's then he doesn't care about this season. He

500
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: can't see That's where I think he needs to be

501
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: challenged more. And they can't have it both ways.

502
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: Well, and the other part of the quote was that

503
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: and we're trying to balance that with a chance to win.

504
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: And but to me that that just speaks to the large,

505
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: larger thing of what they've been talking about since the

506
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: beginning of the season, right, you know, threading this needle

507
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: of trying to compete, spending three hundred and almost three

508
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 2: hundred fifty million dollars in the roster with a with

509
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: a quarterback who hadn't played before. Like, that's the that's

510
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 2: the nature of the of the needle that they're threading that.

511
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 2: You know, they're not in a in a place where

512
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: they can you know, take a take a tank year

513
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 2: or whatever you want, not tank, but like a year

514
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: where it doesn't matter if they win or lose because

515
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: of the way the roster is constructed and frankly, where

516
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 2: they are in their process of the you know, since

517
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: they got here him in quasy.

518
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: Don't they call that hubrish? Yeah? I mean to me,

519
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: that's the error because I don't believe. I think in

520
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: their mind they convinced themselves we're loaded enough and I'm

521
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: smart enough. Yeah, we're gonna be able to pull this

522
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: off right away. Maybe yeah, maybe maybe.

523
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: I don't think that they went in like creating like

524
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 2: a fantasy, I mean, following a fantasy that they didn't

525
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: think would ever work. I think that they they felt

526
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 2: like they could pull it off. But whether it was

527
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: they thought there was a thirty percent chance they could

528
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 2: pull it off for a ninety percent chance like that

529
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: would be the difference there.

530
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: Texter, this is six y five one guys. The air

531
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: yard aunt take into account when JJ throws to an

532
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: open defensive back. They turned on the already they have.

533
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: Have you seen the chart, the quarterback efficiency chart I'm

534
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 1: talking about. It's got a lot of pretty colors. No

535
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: you've seen this, maybe, but go ahead this one. This

536
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: hot reads win probability zero one regular weeks, one to

537
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: ten playoffs, non minimum one hundred plays downs one to

538
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: four quarters all. I don't even know what that means.

539
00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: And pretty much every quarterback who's played this year is

540
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: on this. I don't know if you call this a

541
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: line graph, I don't know the technical name for it.

542
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 1: And a again, let me get it out of the way.

543
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: I'm not giving up on the QB. I'm not suggesting

544
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: they cut him. We know all that, but he's playing

545
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: and you still get to evaluate what you see. And

546
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: according to this quarterback efficiency chart, is he on it? Well,

547
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: he's he's lower left, the lower left, he's he's below,

548
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: He's several points below Ward and he's listed under the

549
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: the minus point two zero. Every other quarterback, Dylan Gabriel

550
00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: is well ahead of him, Jake Browning is well ahead

551
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: of him, justin Fields, Gino Smith, The list goes on

552
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: and on. He's at he's below. Everybody else is inefficiency.

553
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: It says quarterback efficiency. But then that's an awfully broad subject,

554
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: so I don't know what that.

555
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 2: Happens analytic term, and it can be defined the last

556
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: ways we have. We use QBR and that's why he's

557
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 2: not even on the chart QB.

558
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: Actually I looked up this up.

559
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: So there's been I think it's forty six quarterbacks who

560
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: have started at least one game. His QBR is forty fourth,

561
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 2: and in this case, cam Ward's a little bit below him.

562
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: Cam Warden in Tennessee the first overall pick this year.

563
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 2: Everybody a team that's supposed to be terrible. Yeah, everybody

564
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 2: else is ahead of him, And so you know, you

565
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,479
Speaker 2: don't make future projections based on what the four games

566
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 2: look like, but the four games have been rough.

567
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: All part of value, part of the evaluation.

568
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: There's been some there's been a you know, I look

569
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 2: at it like, there's been enough examples that if you're

570
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 2: an optimist, you pull out those whows and you say, well,

571
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: this is this is the first drive.

572
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: I can say it's there, like, I see it.

573
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 2: I can see all the things that he needs to

574
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 2: be a really good quarterback. But there's the consistency level

575
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 2: just isn't there yet. And I think you look at

576
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: him and you say, this is a guy who hasn't

577
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: played enough to create almost like to create the muscle memory. Yeah,

578
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: to throw the ball with the same fundamentals and footwork

579
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 2: every time, and when over the course of the game

580
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 2: gets amped up and he loses a lot of those

581
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,239
Speaker 2: those that footwork and fundamentals and the ball sprays all

582
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 2: over the place, what's the answer to that.

583
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: You got to play. You got to create.

584
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: That muscle memory by continuing to get rep after rep

585
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: after rep. And it's possible, and then you have to

586
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 2: hope that by doing that it brings you know, it

587
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: takes the far end of the good plays on the

588
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: far end of the bad plays and starts moving everything together,

589
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 2: and you create a consistent player a lot.

590
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: I mean, the text are pouring in here on the No,

591
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: it's not all bad. JJ is having a hard time

592
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: for the same reason Darnold eventually had a hard time.

593
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: KOs refuses to accept short completions as good plays. Stafford

594
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: is a much more accomplished quarterback, and McVeigh runs lots

595
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,520
Speaker 1: of plays to get the ball out quick. And look,

596
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: I've seen plays where Stafford's going deep too, But there

597
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: are a lot of short completions, and there's power to

598
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 1: short completions too, And that I think is another factor

599
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: that I think sometimes just this this, this head coach

600
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: just is not all that interested in I don't, you know,

601
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: I don't know why somebody is saying they believe they're concerned.

602
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: Are you concerned, Seyffert, that j Mac and Justin Jefferson's

603
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 1: Jefferson seemed to have negative chemistry at this point.

604
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: They don't have negative chemistry, but they aren't on this,

605
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: you know, entirely on the same page either.

606
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: Uh.

607
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 2: And it's interesting that it looks like he's it, you know,

608
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 2: he looks like he has more chemistry with Nailor and Addison.

609
00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Two guys.

610
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 2: He spent all of training him throwing too, while Justin

611
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: was injured with the hamstring. Justin is also a unique

612
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 2: player in turn and he Justin talked a lot about

613
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 2: this this summer.

614
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: A unique route runner.

615
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 2: You know, he has the stride that that allows him

616
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: to make turns that most people don't make and to

617
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: get the spots that most people don't get to. And

618
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: it takes some time to get used to throwing to him.

619
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: And you know, you throw twelve times in his way

620
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: in and there's four connections, and then you say, like,

621
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: it's hard to conclude anything other than the fact that

622
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: they have more work to do to get on the

623
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 2: same page.

624
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: When was the moment? So you were at the game,

625
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: so I don't even know if you detected this or

626
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: saw it, but it was shown very vividly on the

627
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: screen for those of us in the Barker Lounge or

628
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: in the bark of loungers. Yeah, you got to talk

629
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 1: me off the ledge on this because it's bugging me.

630
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: I am guards he knows this already, He's not surprised,

631
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: But the whole alter ego thing I'm bored with already.

632
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: It's too soon for all for all of this stuff.

633
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: In my opinion, I think you got to do a

634
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,959
Speaker 1: lot more before you can sell this, and people aren't

635
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,919
Speaker 1: going to do anything but roll their eyes. But beyond that,

636
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 1: the first drive was great. Yeah, right, the long throw,

637
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 1: I mean that you can't put the ball in any

638
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 1: better place than he did to the left. That was Naylor, right, yes,

639
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: and then he he even gave him room then to

640
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: break away to keep has a great play. Yeah, but

641
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: did you I don't know if it was right then

642
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: or was during that drive? There was a there was

643
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: a camera shot and it's closing up. It's a close

644
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: up with the QB and he's looking towards it looks

645
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: like the bench, and he's got that sort of hard

646
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: ass look like almost like see I'm special. Come on,

647
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 1: I don't need stop worrying so much about fostering this

648
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: image of what you are. Just for eight straight weeks,

649
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: maybe three straight seasons, just go play and all that

650
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: other stuff will take care of itself.

651
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 2: I don't get worked up about him playing that way

652
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: because that's the way he's always played.

653
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: If you go back to Michigan, you.

654
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: Know, the the thing about bringing up the name of

655
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: that personality nine nine which has been funny to see

656
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 2: people spell it two different ways. It's almost like a

657
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 2: like a battle n e I N is like a

658
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 2: battle yeah, warrior or something. But anyway, I think if

659
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 2: he had to do that part over again, he probably

660
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 2: wouldn't And I'd be shocked if I hear him utter

661
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 2: that again.

662
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,479
Speaker 1: Well, I we'll see, Yeah, it's all it's all gonna

663
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,760
Speaker 1: change again if he throws three touchdown passes and be sparis.

664
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 2: I'm just telling like, but frankly like the things, the

665
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: things that people liked about him universally all kind of

666
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 2: revolve around that. The competitiveness, the the energy, the fire

667
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 2: like and it means something. It doesn't mean that you're

668
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: gonna be either mean right, no, and so but that's

669
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 2: certainly part of the positive side of the evaluation of

670
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 2: him coming out of school. And I think that it's

671
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 2: you know, I said, I think it means something, and

672
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 2: I think it's had some impact. It's not going to

673
00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: matter if he can't complete more than fifty percent of

674
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 2: his passes yees, obviously, but it's it's it's part of

675
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: an overall winning package that he's continuing to try to build.

676
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: Dan, why are we not discussing what do we not discuss,

677
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: What did we not discuss at this time of year

678
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 1: last year? Caleb Williams underperforming, Drake May underperforming? How about

679
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: Nicks all underperforming, all in the same draft class, all

680
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: played a full season last year. I think that we

681
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: need to take that into account. I have, in fact, Guardsy.

682
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if you were here that day we

683
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: discussed this in depth that I said. The unfairness of

684
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 1: what faces McCarthy is that, unlike Drake May last year,

685
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: unlike to a certain extent, Caleb Williams last year, the

686
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: team itself there were no expectations, so there was a

687
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,959
Speaker 1: feeling of go play. If you make mistakes, there's nothing

688
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: at stake. The Vikings set it up where there was

689
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: going to be something at stake, and it was going

690
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: to hurt more So again, I'll argue that if anybody's

691
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: been unfair to McCarthy, it may have been the Vikings

692
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: by the way they've set this thing up. Because there's

693
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: no question May looks like a different quarterback this year.

694
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 1: That's the beauty of going to a team where they're

695
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: a mess and they're just trying to the coach is

696
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: probably a lame duck guy, and they know they're going

697
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: to make a change anyway, so we just throw throw

698
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: something somebody out there. This team was not set up

699
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: to be where it was just gonna be accepted the

700
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: same way by everybody. Because you're coming off fourteen and three,

701
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: and because you spent all the money you have this offseason,

702
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 1: it was going to feel differently.

703
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: Whether that's fair to McCarthy or not. Drake May is

704
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 2: also really good.

705
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: He is, and they knew it.

706
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,799
Speaker 2: And they knew it, and they would have theold want

707
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: rill to get him, and so I think that that's

708
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 2: a little bit of it. And they definitely put McCarthy

709
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 2: in a position where his mistakes were going to be

710
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 2: more magnified and and and everybody pays uber attention to

711
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:43,760
Speaker 2: young quarterbacks anyway, But you know his Drake May's mistakes

712
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 2: last year, to the extent that he made him didn't

713
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 2: impact anything out in the fact that the Patriots had

714
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: a competitive draft pick this year as a result, and

715
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 2: so h this this year, the quarterbacks mistakes could potentially

716
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 2: impact whether they make the playoffs.

717
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 1: All right, how about this question. Remind your guest, I

718
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: guess he doesn't know your name.

719
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: Just said your guest, all right, it's only been a

720
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 2: few years with you.

721
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: Pet McCarthy was a top ten pick. We gave up,

722
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: we moved up to get We shouldn't have to be

723
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: working after two years on fundamentals, et cetera, et cetera.

724
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: This is I know a pet pe for Guardsy because

725
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 1: we heard for serta time he was heard as about, well,

726
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: you know, we got to the base and we got

727
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: to work all this stuff. Yeah, exactly, And and there

728
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: is a part of me that goes, really, I mean,

729
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: he's he's young, but he's not twelve, and he didn't

730
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: play a lot last year, but he was he's been

731
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 1: here for this is the second year here. So do

732
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: people not have a right to be a little bit

733
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: concerned when we're talking about stuff that seems to be

734
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 1: the elementary stuff that you associate maybe with a sixth

735
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: round draft choice or a free agent quarterback. It's just rob,

736
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 1: but we got to work on all this bass stuff.

737
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: He's supposed to be more polished than that, isn't.

738
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: He Well I think that went to the big debate

739
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,759
Speaker 2: with him was that he just hadn't played a lot.

740
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 2: He was he played three year a college football he

741
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 2: through seven hundred or so passed, which are about half

742
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: of what the rest of the of the class had

743
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: thrown in college, you know, and he like, And that

744
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that that that guarantees that. I mean, you

745
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 2: have to throw fifteen hundred passes in college to to

746
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 2: have you know, the muscle memory of the footwork and

747
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: the fundamentals and the base.

748
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: That you need.

749
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 2: But he does, you know, And like we can debate

750
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 2: whether he should have or shouldn't have or whatever, but

751
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,080
Speaker 2: that's where it's at and that's what they're working on.

752
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 2: And if he isn't able to push past that, he's

753
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 2: going to be a fifty percent passer in his career.

754
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 2: And but the feeling is that it's it's it's something

755
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 2: that other quarterbacks have been able to push through and improve,

756
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: and there's no reason to think that he can't.

757
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,840
Speaker 1: All right, I do you have any other quarterback thoughts

758
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: that they're in your head coming off this last game

759
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: before we clear the decks and going believe it or

760
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: not other directions.

761
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 2: You know, Like I said, I have some story coming

762
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 2: hopefully it'll be tomorrow about this, and just I just

763
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 2: think that they give us a preview, gives me a

764
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: taste no, and I think what it to me was scoops.

765
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: But what if you want my sid impression he used

766
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 2: to say when when somebody would write a story that

767
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: he didn't respecting no scoops.

768
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: There's no scoops in that story. That's true.

769
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 2: I think what the four games has revealed is that

770
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: while I think they might have taken some of the

771
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: most complicated parts of the passing game out for him,

772
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: they are giving JJ McCarthy a full NFL passing offense

773
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: to develop in. And this is not a boot left boot,

774
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 2: right screen, right screen, left handoff thirty five times a game.

775
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 2: And like for example, the Seahawks did with Russell Wilson

776
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 2: way back in the day before he eventually developed into

777
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 2: more of a passing threat. And it increases the the

778
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 2: increases the likelihood that there will be some plays on

779
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 2: tape that you would never want to put on tape.

780
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 1: Yes, and we've seen those.

781
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 2: But it also reveals that Kevin O'Connell, who is famously

782
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: said that organizations fail, you know the quarterbacks before the

783
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 2: opposite that for quarterbacks fail the organizations, that his method

784
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: of developing quarterback is to, as I said earlier, is

785
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,879
Speaker 2: to put him in at least some difficult and uncomfortable

786
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 2: positions and that that's where the growth comes from.

787
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: It.

788
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: It kind of goes to the to the you know,

789
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 2: just being in the in the parent meat grinder as

790
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: you are. You know, this this ongoing debate about helicopter

791
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 2: parents and whether you whether you whether you're responsible for

792
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 2: plowing a perfect road in front of your kids so

793
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 2: that they, you know, have the best chance to succeed. Uh,

794
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 2: when do you let your kids fail? When do you

795
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 2: you know? And what's the outcome when they fail?

796
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: Uh?

797
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:57,799
Speaker 2: Do they actually learn more from failing than they do

798
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: from succeeding? And do you alter mi league turn out

799
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 2: to be in a better spot because you let your kids.

800
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 2: Your kids end up being in a better spot because

801
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: you let them fail. And so I think, you know,

802
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 2: I haven't heard O'Connell say that explicitly, but I think

803
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 2: that's clearly what is happening here is that there's there's

804
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 2: you know, there's there's an aggressive push to expose him

805
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,280
Speaker 2: and to get him functioning in some high level stuff.

806
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: Not as much high level as they've done in the past,

807
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 2: but some of it, and he might fail in some

808
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: of it. And hopefully he learns from it and it

809
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: makes him better in the long run.

810
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: All right, let's make this the top of the hour.

811
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: Break go into a couple of other directions. Whether Vikings

812
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: fans should be devastated with a personnel announcement that came

813
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: down not that long ago that does not include a

814
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,279
Speaker 1: new addition to the Viking secondary That and much more

815
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: with Seaffert, don't forget before we're done. We also have

816
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: Louis at five point thirty tonight, Mitch Lawrence at fourth