WEBVTT - Gary Jeff Walker 1-6-26 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:10.440 On this fifth anniversary of January sixth, twenty twenty one, 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:20.200 when thousands of Americans were incarcerated, pursued, persecuted for merely 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.560 doing what the Constitution says they have a right to do, 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:29.120 assemble and redress their grievances with the government. We have 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:34.640 Navy veteran, retired Navy Lieutenant commander. Let me set the 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.839 record straight on that Tom Caldwell, who is a j 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.320 six defendant as well, who has come out on the 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:48.000 other side, but not with bitterness, not with petty anger, 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.440 but a message about faith and how it got him 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:58.240 through the entire experience federal detention, ten week trial, facing 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.680 possibly life and presen for simply being at the Capitol 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:07.880 on January sixth. And he has written an incredible book 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:11.640 called The Mouths of the Wicked, a true January sixth 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:16.800 story of corruption, persecution, survival, and victory. And he has 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.000 a message of things that we all need to be 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:23.720 mindful of as American citizens, about possibly what could happen 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:29.360 to us if the Strategic Implementation Plan for countering domestic 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.320 terrorism is weaponized again the way it was against those 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.520 January sixth defendants. And he joins us now, Tom it's 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:38.960 such a pleasure to have you. It's such a pleasure 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:43.160 to know that you have gotten through this not only 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:48.600 with flying colors, but as a beacon of light to 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.800 other people in other struggles they may be having with 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:56.400 your book about your faith. And I also, you know, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.280 it kind of reminded me as I was thinking about 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:05.240 this interview Tom. Not to place any kind of correlation there, 0:02:05.320 --> 0:02:09.280 but I think there's some similarities how the Apostle Paul 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.640 was put in prison for merely preaching the Gospel of 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.880 Jesus Christ, and the letters that he wrote while he 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:22.080 was being persecuted became the basis for a great deal 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:24.959 of our New Testament in our Christian Bible, with the 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:30.919 letters to these churches about perseverance and maintaining faith and 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:38.440 believing that God is in control. But it's great to 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:39.919 have you, Welcome to the show. 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:43.120 Thank you so much for having me back here. It's 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:44.400 always a pleasure to speak with you. 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.959 Yeah. So what about my analogy about the Apostle Paul. 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.280 Well, that's pretty heavy and it's very humbling. 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.680 As a matter of fact, you know, I spoke to 0:02:56.720 --> 0:02:59.080 you about this book and how I began writing it 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.920 with the notes that I had smuggled out of prison 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.720 to my darling share, and she kept them, thinking those 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.080 would be the last communications she'd ever gotten from her husband. 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.679 But I wrote this thing not in the warm afterglow 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:16.080 of the victory provided by the Lord, ultimate victory, but 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.080 as I went through it, and it was it was 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:22.880 an awful thing. I wrote this to serve as a 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:27.400 witness to the hoax, the dangerous lawlessness, the corrupt time 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.639 of our nation that we refer to as the Biden administration, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.400 but also to witness to the grace and the redemptive 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:38.080 power of a loving God. And as I participated in 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:39.920 my Bible study. 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:41.640 Every day with my darling wife. 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:45.880 The lessons of the Bible really rang through because I 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.480 could identify just as you talked about, I could identify 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:56.200 with how Paul was was just attacked and brutalized in 0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:00.040 so many ways, his freedom taken away from him, and 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:03.560 so many other heroes of the Bible had to go 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.119 through a lot of stuff. And I certainly didn't think 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:09.480 at that time that I was doing anything heroic. I 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.680 was only trying to survive. But one of the great 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:17.000 things that I learned is that the Lord is in control. 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.000 Sharon and I, my lovely wife, had to stay in 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:25.040 faith and maintain hope and do what the Bible said, 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:28.320 which is was pray. And you know it's just in Philippians. 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.920 It's okay to present your request to God, but with thanksgiving. 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:36.119 How about thanking him first, you know, for the effort, 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.080 if you know what I mean about this, for the effort, 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.760 and then present your request, and the peace of God, 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.000 which transcends all understanding, will guards your hearts and minds 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.400 in Christ Jesus. I never knew what that meant before 0:04:48.800 --> 0:04:55.599 until I was in this in this swamp created muckile. 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:57.640 That was January sixth. 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.120 You didn't know, but God knew that was the important thing. 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.560 So let's go back to what brought you to the 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:13.120 detention and what exactly did Tom Caldwell do? What heinous 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:17.720 crime did you commit that had the full weight of 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.919 the prosecution of the federal government coming down upon your head. 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.760 I went with my wife on j six to Washington, DC, 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.600 the city of my birth, to hear the outgoing President 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:37.120 Trump makes his last statements to a huge, loving, appreciative crowd. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:42.080 It was a carnival happy type of atmosphere. And then 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:46.240 I made the mistake of trekking down Constitution Avenue, which 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.960 is my right to do, and sitting off the grounds 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:54.200 of the Capitol of a place called the Peace Fountain, 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:59.160 waiting for other conservative and Christian speakers who were scheduled 0:05:59.200 --> 0:05:59.839 to speak. 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:00.640 On the ground was that day. 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:05.200 And when I got home that night and saw the 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.279 images that were on TV of the violence and this 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.960 that I had no idea what happened. 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.080 I mean, I was there, I didn't see any of 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:13.640 that stuff. 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.840 And so because I had actually met a member of 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:22.600 one of the targeted groups selected for persecution by the 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:27.960 DOJ cabal, that was the Oath Keepers, because I actually 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.120 knew a couple of their members, and one of them 0:06:31.240 --> 0:06:35.159 actually had my phone number in her phone under my 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.640 rank veterans do this that I held on active duty 0:06:38.640 --> 0:06:43.679 as Commander Tom when she was arrested and her phone 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.320 received within two hours, the FBI had an arrest warrant 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.120 for me as the commander of the Oath Keepers and 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.560 the commander of the attack on the Capitol. 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:55.479 And that you can't even make that out. This is 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:56.320 the new FBI. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:00.880 Well, I mean talk about a lack of the intelligence 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.640 just generally on the part of the Federal Bureau of 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:09.080 Investigation that just because of the phone they see, Commander 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:13.120 called without doing any more digging into who you were really, 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:18.360 and they just came and scooped up. That's just what 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.560 I mean. What a bunch of fumbling, bumbling idiots. 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:27.640 We could call them cheestone cops, except that generates an 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.600 image that's comedic, right, this is one that should be frightening. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.440 When they have descended with SWAT team here at our home. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:36.960 They had no idea. 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:38.920 They didn't know I was a veteran, and they didn't 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.760 know I was a disabled veteran. They didn't even know. 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.080 In fact, they claimed in the press for months that 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:47.920 I lied. They didn't even know that I used to 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:52.720 work for the FBI. I was a GS thirteen supervisory 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.400 employee of the FBI. Yes, indeed, because I wanted to 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.680 give back to my country. Talk about doing no investigation, 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.960 how about just check the employee files of the Bureau, 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:04.840 won't you no doubt? 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:10.400 All because you happened to know an oathkeeper and because 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.239 you went and watched President Trump's speech, wasn't there a comment? 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:17.200 And I believe in our last interview you told me 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:23.720 that one of the interrogators said, I bet you're Are 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:28.360 you still glad that you supported President Trump or something 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:29.080 to that effect. 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.040 Sure, absolutely right. 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.080 They had a list talking about the FBI people that 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:37.280 interrogated me while I was in chage here at my home. 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:42.119 They were after something and they wanted me to provide 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.480 testimony against certain people, including the oathkeepers, people that I 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.960 didn't even know. But that was the most heinous thing 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:54.880 where this was clearly an anti Trump operation. We talk 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.600 about it now as this was trying to make sure 0:08:57.640 --> 0:08:59.240 that President Trump could never. 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.000 Get back and off. And I felt like a speed bump. 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.760 And they said, exactly what you said, bet your star 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:05.840 you voted for Trump? 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:06.080 Now? 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:06.480 Huh. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.400 Bet you want to get rid of that naggi gear. 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:10.720 Now not let us stoop that up as evidence. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:11.000 Huh. 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.640 And I said, what is wrong with you? You know 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.040 that's my I was. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.880 I was when I was aroused it out after having 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.200 only a couple of hours of sleep. I was not 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.960 that pleasant, although I was nicer to them than they deserve. 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.280 But you probably have to when you look at the 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.280 transcript of what I said, and I have it, and 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:32.400 some of it is in. 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:33.360 This book that I wrote. 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:37.520 You say, Okay, so now I have an idea of 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.080 why that thing is is it has a little little 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.160 marks like the emperors and and all this kind of stuff. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.200 Because I was I was given it back to him. 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.880 Let me tell you, Tom, what is this Strategic Implementation 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.839 Plan for Countering Domestic terrorism? 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.120 And why should more Americans know about it than do. 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:56.959 Well. 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.200 It was something that was declassified by Tulca Gabbert, the 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.480 Director of National Intelligence, and it was a policy that 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.240 was put in place. And I would point out that 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.319 the counter state and a counter state is a term 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:14.719 that I use for an organization loose or established that 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:19.040 is going against or counter to our constitution, and the 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:23.520 counter the counter state is bipartisan. 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:24.480 Both sides of the aisle. 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.600 So there was a thing that was corrected called this 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:32.600 Strategic Implementation Plan for Countering Domestic Terrorism. 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:34.880 It was activated across all agencies. 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:39.360 It was actually put in place just before January sixth, 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:43.960 and it established the Biden administration policy for the arrest, 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.559 the pre trial, imprisonment, and the prosecution on the whimsiest 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.760 of pretenses of people that were considered to be basically 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:57.400 enemies of the state. That includes parents who pitched the 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.920 fuss at school board meetings, believer in free speech, Catholics 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.280 and other Christians, pro lifers, people that didn't want to 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:10.160 take the COVID jeb These people were seen as as troublemakers. 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.480 And this was in this study. What should chill people 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:15.480 to the bone is this is the first time in. 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.199 The history of the United States of America that our 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:25.600 government targeted US citizens as opposed to foreign people trying 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:31.200 to overthrow the government, as violent domestic terrorists. They turned 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:33.800 their attention on we the people. 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.000 So what exactly was it? 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.280 And as you outline in the book, by the way, 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:46.360 again we're talking to Tom Caldwell January sixth, defendant. The 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:48.760 book is The Mouths of the Wicked, a true January 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:54.400 sixth story of corruption, persecution, survival, and victory. Let's talk 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:59.160 about survival and what the victory is, because you know, 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.320 I think that's a big thing that you're trying to 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.880 get across with the tome, Tom. 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:10.120 They threw every dirty trick they possibly could at us. 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:14.920 So many different agencies and administrations within the federal government 0:12:15.440 --> 0:12:19.480 brought their powers to bear on me and I believe 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:23.720 so many hundreds of others of our citizens to do 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.200 things that were unlawful, made phone calls to get our 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.439 credit cards canceled, they got us debanked, They stopped my 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:36.240 Social Security which was illegal, and my military disability payments. 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:39.640 So all of these things that they did to drive 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:43.480 us down and to try to get me to admit 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.680 to things that I did not do. Now, to do 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:51.520 something like that is an affront to plead for mercy 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.320 from the mercilessness one thing. But when you take a 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.600 plee to you, you swear before God the things that 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:03.160 you are a are the truth? Now, how can I 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:05.960 do that? And I wasn't about to roll over, And 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:09.360 yet the pressure kept coming. And even though, as an 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.600 outline in the book, we beat so many of these 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.520 charges in federal court, in the kangaroo court where there 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:21.720 was no chance to win, the Lord provided these victories, 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:26.559 and I could hardly believe it. And they kept coming 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:30.400 after us even after that are putting. 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.280 I mean, Tom, Tom, your phone went kind of wonky 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:36.120 just for a moment. 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.800 So okay, there you go. You're back again. So your 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.240 in federal court just continue where you were when I. 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.720 So we had so many victories in federal court. 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.480 There were five felonies that I was taken to trial 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.240 on all of them were nonsensical, but three of them 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:02.280 we beat outright, We've defined the odds. The doj had 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.040 been sixty five and oh prior to trying me. 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:08.160 For these charges. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:12.280 These made up charges, and the Lord provided victories there 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.040 and victories afterwards. 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.000 Had the Supreme Court. 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.400 Weighed in and throughout one of these things that I 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:22.440 was charged with. So there were so many things that 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.200 sustained us along the way that we could see were 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:30.400 actually a manifestation of the promises that the Lord makes 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.640 to his children who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.280 and savior. People who are not believers can't really wrap 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:42.440 their heads around this, but I hope that they if 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:46.400 they have the commitment and the courage to read something, 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:49.000 to get out of their comfort zone and read a 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:51.800 book like this, I hope that I have made a 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:58.760 pretty compelling taste about the redemptive power of God. Our 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.040 Lord and Savior married us, and I'll be glad to 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:05.840 speak to anybody about him, because I have met him personally. 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:10.240 It's amazing. What were some of the charges, I'm just curious. 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:16.160 Well, one the biggest one was seditious conspiracy, and sedition 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.560 means overthrowing the government. This was the same kind of 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:24.680 charge that Abraham Lincoln brought against his political enemies to 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.000 wrap people up because he thought there were Southern sympathizers. 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.240 And there were a couple of other conspiracy charges again 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.920 to stop Congress from doing their thing, to attack Congress physically. 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:39.000 All of those things I was found not guilty of, 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:43.120 and so I was found guilty. And we thought that 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.360 a jury trial in DC would result in everybody being 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.880 found guilty of something, but here it is. The other 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.880 one was called obstruction of Congress, and it was actually 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.800 a misapplied statue from the Enron scandal. It was about 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:03.080 financial crime, but the DOJ used it to turn simple 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.400 trust passing into a felony. Now I didn't go into 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:09.760 the capital, but they just slapped that on me anyway, 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.000 the trustpassing the real charge. 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.520 The last charge that we've had to fight so hard 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:14.960 was this. 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:19.640 They had my phone where I had taken a couple 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.440 of hundred photos of my day with Sharon that day 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.680 in January sixth, and they said, well, we look at that. 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.400 We can't find any evidence that you did something wrong, 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.880 so you must have destroyed it. So the charge was 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.120 tampering with evidence because we can't find it, you must 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:36.960 have gotten rid of it. 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.800 And that's the one that I was finally sentenced on. 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:41.720 Wow. 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:45.360 Well, you know, praise God for President Trump for the 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.680 pardons you and fifteen hundred others. 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.160 I mean absolutely absolutely, And you know, it's such a 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.360 it was such a wonderful thing. And he had talked 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.800 about doing that, and he got a lot of flak 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:58.720 for doing it too, but it was the right thing. 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.280 And a lot of people will say, well, now people 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:06.240 have been pardoned, and everything is huncle dunkle, everything is great. 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.000 But you know, Gary, that's not true, because people's lives 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:12.280 have been torn apart. You can't throw people in jail 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.679 for a couple of years for something they didn't do 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:17.200 and then just toss them back into society and say. 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:18.120 Fly be free. 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.520 Because many of these people can't get employment anymore. They 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:26.800 are scarred with the scarlet letter of Jay six. Families 0:17:26.880 --> 0:17:30.760 have been torn asunder, but businesses. 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:30.960 Have been lost. 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.119 How do you begin again if you can't get alone, 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:34.600 if you can't get a credit card, if you can't 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:36.679 get a job, and so it's terrible. 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.040 I'm hopeful that perhaps. 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.840 Somebody will get to the president, maybe it will be you, 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:45.280 and say mister President, how about helping these people get jobs. 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.560 You know, when you go for federal employment, there's a 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.879 little block there where people can say that they have 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:55.480 a hiring preference, like a ten percent hiring preference. Disabled 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:56.560 veterans get that for you. 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:02.320 Know, Accused murderers who were judged to be wrongly convicted 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:07.439 are recomferenced. I mean in the millions of dollars. Tom, 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.800 I would love to see the January sixth defendants who've 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:13.719 never been pardon be made whole in this way. The 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:16.800 mouths of the Wicked, the Mouths of the Wicked, a 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.960 true January sixth story of corruption, persecution, survival and victory. 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:26.240 And the author and our guest, retired Lieutenant Navy Commander 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.480 Tom Caldwell, thank you and God bless you, sir. 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.480 And Sam to you, Garry, thank you for having me on. 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:36.720 You bet Tim Hale, another j sixer will join us 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:41.240 afternoons next on the Nightcap on seven hundred WLW. A 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:43.919 couple of years since we had our last conversation with 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.560 his next guest, but considering this is the five year 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.840 anniversary of what became a long nightmare for him and 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.960 so many other Americans, I thought it was time to 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:58.920 revisit with the criminally funny J six Aer known also 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.520 as Tim Hayles, and he's back on the Nightcap on 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:07.160 this five year anniversary of January sixth, twenty twenty one, 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.520 when he and a lot of other people, as I mentioned, 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:16.719 were scooped up erroneously and illegally by a government that 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:20.399 was trying to cover its You know what, Tim Hale 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.600 is back with us tonight. Tim, how are you on 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.200 five years past January sixth, twenty twenty one. 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:31.800 You know, I'm doing swell. It's a good day to 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.360 have a good day, hopefully, and and I'm extremely grateful 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:37.320 for you having me back on. I think this is 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.840 maybe the sixth time we've talked in the past few years, 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:42.480 and I just want to say, you know, for the 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:47.040 listeners that you've been a constant and consistent voice for 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.440 justice and I appreciate everything you've done. 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.160 There were so many people I was talking with somebody 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.160 last night who who did the show in this time 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:58.640 slot last night, and he's talking about the horrible attack 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:02.040 on Congressman in the to their lives and repeating the 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.879 same mantras we heard over and over again from the 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.320 Biden DOJ and FBI in their administration about what actually 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:16.280 occurred and who the people were who were peacefully protesting. 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.040 You want to talk about your mostly peaceful protest. Uh, 0:20:20.160 --> 0:20:24.160 it's certainly no. No buildings were burned and no sections 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.800 of the city were taken over. But uh, let's let's 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.600 let's reflect back on what actually occurred and what you endured. 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.600 Jim, Well, sure. 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:38.639 You know then. You know, with history everything is about 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.680 narrative framing. You know, the saying is that history is 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:45.560 written by the victors. I think we became the victors overall. 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.000 But it's it's easy to forget, Like nobody heard our 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.439 side of the story in the beginning. They just rounded 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.760 us up and called us terrorists. What people need to 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:58.800 understand is that what you saw on TV was selective 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:03.159 clips very specific parts of the Capitol. I showed up 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.560 a half hour after anything happened. What happened was there 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.879 was this small perimeter staffed by like four police officers 0:21:10.240 --> 0:21:14.040 around the Capitol, and some individuals who are very suspicious 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.480 tore those barriers down while Trump was still giving his speech. 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.600 None of us knew this happened, and we walked into 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.679 a trap. There were FBI agents and informants to the crowd. 0:21:24.000 --> 0:21:26.760 I know some of their names, and I wish the 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.880 government would release all that. But yeah, we went there 0:21:29.920 --> 0:21:32.159 for a speech. It makes no sense for us to 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.600 try to interfere with the certification. But when we're the 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.679 ones who wanted them to question the electors, I mean, 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.359 that makes no sense. We were there for a speech. 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.720 The Capitol police fired grenades into the crowd. They never 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.920 tell you that, and a riot was incited, And it's 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.280 just important for people to understand that there's another side 0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:55.240 to the story. And you know, Sarah, we talked earlier 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:59.639 in the week and you'd mentioned Tianaman Square. It's important 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.440 to remember that these kinds of things are not limited 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:05.919 to foreign countries. We only remain a free country if 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:10.240 we're vigilant about our own government. And unfortunately, I think 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:14.000 we're so divided in partisan way that it's impossible for 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:16.879 people to consider whether or not the other side was 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.680 set up and we were set up. And I think 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.399 most people kind of understand that now, even if they 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:25.800 don't know all the details. But it's important for people 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:30.200 to understand. Time after time, the narratives about Jay six 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:33.679 were proven to be live and it's just not for nothing. 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:36.640 I don't want anything bad to happen to members of Congress. 0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:40.200 But like the pearl clutching, you know, the photo ops 0:22:40.200 --> 0:22:43.200 of them hiding under chairs with gas masks. I mean, 0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.360 that's insane. They murdered protesters that day. There was no 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.800 police officer killed that day at all. And I was 0:22:50.200 --> 0:22:53.560 incarcerated with a man named Julian Cater. He was a 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:56.400 man who was a refugee from the Lebanese Civil Wars, 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:01.600 you know, fathers of vet from overseas. He's a monk literally, 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.119 and they framed him for murdering officer Brian Sicknick. That 0:23:05.200 --> 0:23:07.960 man died of natural causes. It took them months, but 0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:11.240 they released the other coroner's report months later, and for 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:13.440 years still they still call that man a cop killer. 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:16.800 They still lie about police officers getting killed. That's how 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:19.879 shameless the coverage of January sixth has been. This man's 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:21.520 life was ruined. He's going to be called the cop 0:23:21.600 --> 0:23:23.520 killer for the rest of his life when he is not. 0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:26.520 And that's true for a lot of people. Unfortunately, it's 0:23:26.560 --> 0:23:27.200 just shameless. 0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:31.040 Ashley Babbitt was murdered that day by a Capitol police 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:35.520 officer she was unarmed, the Air Force veteran, was a mother. 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.119 She was actually trying to get people out of the 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:40.919 Capitol when she was shot. 0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:42.120 Am I correct on that. 0:23:43.720 --> 0:23:47.359 That's correct? And you know it's interesting she was she 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:49.600