1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: You with a lot of material to engage in your 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: thoughtful constitutional analysis. 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: Well, they're also providing me with a great deal of 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 2: frustrationing and this article. You know, I have to keep 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: it to under a thousand words. But this is a treatise, Lenk. 6 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 2: This almost reminds me of Bob Higgs's book Crisis and Leviathan, 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: in which he, going back to the War of eighteen twelve, 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 2: traces the expansion of government power every time there's a crisis. 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 2: This is the expansion of government power based upon domestic crises. So, 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: what started out as a simple document that would allow 11 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: the federal government to look at voting records and Department 12 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: of Motor Vehicle records to see if individuals had overstayed 13 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: their visas now has been transformed into a substitute for 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 2: a search warrant that allows the federal government to demand 15 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 2: of telecom and internet service providers the records of people 16 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 2: who have been critical of ice. Well, who the hell 17 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 2: is the government to go around investigating people who are 18 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 2: critical of the government. Being critical of the government is 19 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 2: a fundamental, profound right, expressly guaranteed in the First Amendment 20 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: and absolutely vital for a vibrant democracy. And people should 21 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 2: not fear that they will be investigated by ICE because 22 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: they are Americans who are critical of the government. That's 23 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 2: what I attempted to articulate in this piece. 24 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, boiled it down quite nicely there, You're on 25 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: in a summary statement, and I. 26 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: Agree with you. 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: I mean, let's face it, folks like you and I 28 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,959 Speaker 1: we have very deep seated held positions relative the things political. 29 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: And if the government is looking into people and going 30 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: after them based upon their speech, you and I are 31 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: in the crosshairs just as much as any left wing 32 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: nutjob out there who is expousing left wing socialist speech 33 00:01:56,080 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: or Marxism or communism. You're allowed to do that. I mean, 34 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 1: you're allowed when. 35 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: The government investigates people for their exercise of free speech, 36 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 2: or prosecutes them, or attempts to prosecute them for their 37 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 2: exercise of free speech, like the DOJ attempting to indict 38 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: six members of Congress from making a truthful and accurate 39 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: statement about the law. They could have made an untruthful 40 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: and inaccurate statement about the law and it still would 41 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: have been protected, like the prosecution of Don Lemon, Like 42 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 2: this effort to get the social media records of people 43 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 2: who've been critical of them. This constitutees chilling. This causes 44 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 2: people to have second thoughts about criticizing the government for 45 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: fear of the government will stick its nose into their business. 46 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: And chilling is as much prohibited by the First Amendment 47 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 2: as is silencing exactly. 48 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: And it shouldn't be a question of whose ox is 49 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: being gord on whether or not you care about speech 50 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: being protected or the chilling effect that goes out. I mean, 51 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: all we need to do is what's going on in 52 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: the European Union these days? They are imprisoning people for 53 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: their speech. Do we want to go down that road? 54 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: Do we want to become the European Union? We do 55 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: have a First Amendment to thank God for it. 56 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: Look until the Cardinal Archbishop of London interceded. A lady 57 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 2: was arrested and prosecuted for reciting a rosary outside of 58 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 2: an abortion clinic in London. Eventually they threw it out 59 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 2: so the prosecution stopped, but they did arrest her and 60 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: they did charge her. This is the danger of the 61 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: government putting its thumb An example of the danger of 62 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: the government putting its thumb on the scale and punishing 63 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 2: speech that it hates. And fears. Now they don't have 64 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: a first Amendment. They have a long tradition which is 65 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: longer than ours. We have a first amendment. In my view, 66 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 2: the telecom and internet providers who received these administrative warrants 67 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: from ICE demanding the social media and telephonic records of 68 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 2: people Americans who have been critical advice should have told 69 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 2: ICE to go take a hike you want it, get 70 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: a search warrant, or give us a subpoena from a 71 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: grand jury. You're not going to get a subpoena from 72 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: a grand juri or search warrant because they providy the 73 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 2: premise for both of those is evidence of criminal behavior. 74 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 2: This is not criminal. 75 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: Behavior, right that therein lies the point. It's like your distinction, 76 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: and I know it's an accurate one, and sometimes people 77 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: need to get a grip with it. You know, entering 78 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: the country illegally that is a crime, but staying overstaying 79 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: your visa or welcome here is a civil problem, not 80 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: a criminal problem. So therefore it can't operate as a 81 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: predicate for a search warrant based upon probable cause of 82 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: a crime being committed. I mean that's been your position previously. 83 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: Correct. If you enter the country illegally. You have committed 84 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 2: a crime if you enter legally and overstay. You are 85 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 2: here illegally. But it is not a crime, so it 86 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: can't be the basis of an arrest warrant. To Ice, 87 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: there is no distinction. Ice doesn't care about the statute. 88 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:11,679 Speaker 2: Ice just cares about projecting the White House's power over 89 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: a politically impotent group immigrants. 90 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: Do you find the silence from Congress deafening on this? 91 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: Regardless of plant I do? 92 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 2: I do. It's very upsetting to me. I hear more 93 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 2: from my Democratic friends in New Jersey than you do. 94 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to guess from your Republican friends in Ohio. 95 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: Why aren't they complaining about this? Could you imagine a 96 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: Barack Obama or Gavin Newsom or whoever's going to succeed Trump. 97 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: We're doing this the other way around. The Republicans would 98 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 2: be howling, but without. 99 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: Stop, Well, we were all howling. 100 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: You know. 101 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: I'm not a Republican little libertarian, thank you very much. 102 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: We were howling when the irs was empowered to go 103 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: after conservative organizations for their speech and deprive them of 104 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: their detach free status, or otherwise deprive them of even 105 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: being able to operate using the banking system against people 106 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: because they had conservative businesses firearms manufacturers, payday lenders. We're 107 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: going to deprive them of banking. That is another nefarious 108 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: element of government being used against the individuals here, and 109 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: I can't abide on any level. So that's why we 110 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: have you, Judge editor Politano. Check out the column comes 111 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: out tonight, Liberty without Strings and also Judging Freedom Judgenita 112 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: Polatana's podcast. I recommend you check that out wherever you 113 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Who are your guests today, Judge Enita Polatano, I. 114 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 2: Have Glenn Dison, Aaron Mante, the Great Professor Jeffrey Sachs, 115 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 2: and Phil Giraldi. Tomorrow Colonel Douglas McGregor. I'm very fortunate 116 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: to have these high end people who draw huge audiences 117 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: for me. Sometimes I feel like I'm shoveling against the tide, 118 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 2: trickling with these ice pieces I keep reading, but I'm 119 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 2: gratified to know that it's stirring the pot somewhere. 120 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: And getting the intellectual constitutional juices flowing, which we all 121 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: need a healthy doso. That's why I love having you on, 122 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 1: Judge Napolitano. Until next week, my friend best of health, 123 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: of love to you, sir. 124 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: Thank you. My regards to Ingram, who I did not hear, 125 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: and my regards to Joe, whom I probably frustrated but 126 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: life goes on. Thank you for understanding me.