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Speaker 1: Back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM

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Speaker 1: six forty live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Now, if

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Speaker 1: you or someone you love has struggled with addiction, and

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Speaker 1: it sounds like a commercial, a struggle addiction, call the number. No,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that. I have a guest who I

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Speaker 1: really think you should listen to. Local boy from Encino

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Speaker 1: in the valley here. His name is Richard Tait, and

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Speaker 1: he has become one of the nation's leading recovery experts.

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Speaker 1: You probably heard of Cliffside Malibu. We've all heard of

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Speaker 1: that one. It was the place where the celebrities would

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Speaker 1: go so they could be all quiet about their problems.

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Speaker 1: He founded that. Now he works with a place called

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Speaker 1: Carrera Treatments, Treatment, Wellness and SPA. Like adding the spa thing,

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Speaker 1: and to Richard, it makes it more exciting. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: The first thing I want to ask you, I was

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Speaker 1: reading your bio. You yourself overcame addiction, but you also

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Speaker 1: were homeless at one point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I lost twenty five years to addiction. And at

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Speaker 2: the end, you know, the money all drives up and

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Speaker 2: you can't go to these Motel sixes anymore, and you

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Speaker 2: don't have the thirty dollars a night to do it.

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Speaker 2: So my best thinking was to sneak on boats in

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Speaker 2: the marina.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And on the second night people came home to

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Speaker 2: their boat and I was scared beyond belief and I

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Speaker 2: just started running and I had nowhere to go.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's funny. The other night, my husband and

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Speaker 1: I were walking doing our late night walk around the marina,

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Speaker 1: and we were looking into the boat like looking from

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Speaker 1: afar and saying, oh, they actually live on their boat.

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Speaker 1: There's a light on there. Look, they have black sheets down,

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Speaker 1: but you can see the crack of light. They're watching Netflix.

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Speaker 1: And we could see who was living on boats and

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Speaker 1: who wasn't. And then my husband actually said, what keeps

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Speaker 1: homeless people from just walking on and sleeping on these boats? Right,

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Speaker 1: It's actually a thing.

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Speaker 2: It's actually a thing. And I didn't know that, and

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Speaker 2: I never saw anybody else, but that was my best thinking.

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Speaker 2: I had nowhere to go.

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Speaker 1: And so what was your rock bottom or do you

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Speaker 1: have to hit rock bottom anymore? Or what was your

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Speaker 1: moment that caused you to really finally heal?

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Speaker 2: Well, now you can't wait for rock bottom because seventy

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Speaker 2: percent of the street drugs have ventanyl in them, and

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Speaker 2: one out of every six pills or so has a

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Speaker 2: lethal dose of ventanyl in it. So that's over.

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Speaker 1: We all know people who lost young adults during COVID

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Speaker 1: to this ventanyl crisis. You think everybody knows a family

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Speaker 1: who lost somebody.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and it's the most heartbreaking thing. Look, there's

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Speaker 2: nothing more unnatural than bearing your child. Just the thought

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Speaker 2: of it makes my throat start to close. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's so you know, we're out of time. That's the

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Speaker 2: name of my podcast, not to plug anything here, but

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Speaker 2: I hope you're going to be on.

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Speaker 1: Oh I definitely want to come on.

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Speaker 2: Thank God. And yeah that's my story and I'm sticking

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Speaker 2: to it.

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Speaker 1: So this is a show about love and relationships, and

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Speaker 1: I would say that addiction. You know when people say

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Speaker 1: I'm all about secure relationships, hanging in there, doing the work,

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Speaker 1: But I always say, except if the relationship is toxic,

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Speaker 1: if there's emotional abuse, physical abuse, domestic violence, child abuse,

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Speaker 1: and addiction, did you lose your relationship because of this?

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Speaker 2: You know, I wasn't big on relationships when I was using,

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Speaker 2: so I didn't have a healthy relationship ever, So that's

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Speaker 2: not no. I lost I lost the relationship when I

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Speaker 2: started working around the clock because it's a twenty four hour,

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Speaker 2: seven day a week, three hundred and sixty five day

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Speaker 2: year business. So when you're working like that, you're working

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Speaker 2: pretty much around the clock, sixteen to eighteen hours.

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Speaker 1: And this is the business of helping out. There's regards

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Speaker 1: its correct.

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Speaker 2: Well, Look, if you leave your wife sitting in a

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Speaker 2: restaurant on date night.

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Speaker 1: Or because someone's having a crisis.

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Speaker 2: That's right, or in a movie theater alone. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's only so many times somebody with self esteem is

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Speaker 2: going to tolerate that, right. But if a father left

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Speaker 2: his daughter with me and she's an intravenous heroin user

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Speaker 2: and she's been there for three weeks and her system's clean,

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Speaker 2: she's going to go out and use the same amount

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Speaker 2: of heroine that she did before, and she's not going

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Speaker 2: to be able to and she's not going to have

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Speaker 2: the tolerance for it, right because her system's clean. So

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Speaker 2: you know what am I supposed to tell the father?

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry it was date night? Right?

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Speaker 1: So I also want to say, and I'm sure you're

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Speaker 1: well aware of this that Sigmund Freud said one of

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Speaker 1: the most healthy defenses against psychic pain is sublimation. Sublimation

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Speaker 1: is taking your own pain, finding others who have the

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Speaker 1: same pain, and attending to them and caring for them.

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Speaker 1: And at the sime same time, there are two brains listening.

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Speaker 1: As you're caring for that young girl, you're reinforcing the

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Speaker 1: self care that you need. So part of your recovery

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Speaker 1: and indeed survival, I would venture to guess, is caring

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Speaker 1: for others.

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Speaker 2: You cannot think of your own problems and be of

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Speaker 2: service to others and still think about your problems. You can't.

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Speaker 2: It goes one way or the other. So the second

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Speaker 2: you take your full focus and you put it on

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Speaker 2: another human being, there's no room in your mind for

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Speaker 2: your own problems. There just isn't.

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Speaker 1: And you're doing such good now. I understand that you

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Speaker 1: have helped more than ten thousand families who have a

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Speaker 1: family member who suffered from addiction. What advice do you

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Speaker 1: give if there is if there are marital problems talking

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Speaker 1: specifically about relationships.

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Speaker 2: Here, well, if it's meritable, if it's problems with a child.

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Speaker 2: Because of the child, you have to be aligned there

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Speaker 2: is no separation, and.

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Speaker 1: So therefore you end up treating the whole family, even

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Speaker 1: though there's one person who's addicted.

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Speaker 2: Always. But what I would suggest before you start dealing

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Speaker 2: with the child is get a therapist for the parents

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Speaker 2: to sit there and talk about a strategy in dealing

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Speaker 2: with the child. This isn't something you're winging. Okay, you

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Speaker 2: have to go in with a strategy and a plan.

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Speaker 2: It's just like a marriage. You know, You've got to

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Speaker 2: be strategic about it.

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Speaker 1: Right, it is a marriage.

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Speaker 2: That's thank exactly, that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: It's funny because I had a teacher once who was

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Speaker 1: a marriage and family therapist, and she was teaching us

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Speaker 1: family systems therapy, and she said, you know, all we

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Speaker 1: dream of when they come in with a family members

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Speaker 1: say fix this person or fix that person. And that's

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Speaker 1: what we call the identified patient. And all we wish

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Speaker 1: we could do is send all the miners home and

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Speaker 1: just work with the adults. Right, even though they'll often

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Speaker 1: say it's this teenager who's using cannabis, or it's this

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Speaker 1: you know, this is our problem. It obviously is a

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Speaker 1: system that works together like a machine. But really the

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Speaker 1: adults should be handling these problems.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're the parents right right, and these children are

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Speaker 2: walking around with you know, not even a full brain, right.

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Speaker 2: Your frontal cortex doesn't isn't even developed into your what

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Speaker 2: twenty three twenty.

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Speaker 1: Five in there, twenty five if you're not using cannabis.

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Speaker 1: I heard an addiction counselor tell me a psychologist the

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Speaker 1: other day that for every year you're using cannabis, add

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Speaker 1: another year to waiting for the prefrontal cortex to develop.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, so many FEMA.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if that's true, but I do know

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Speaker 2: that if you're smoking pot before the age of twenty five,

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Speaker 2: you're changing the chemical makeup of your brain, and you're

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Speaker 2: you're not getting out of that brain the full power

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Speaker 2: that you would have had. That I know for sure.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's for sure. When we come back, I want

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Speaker 1: to talk specifically about you have a new book coming

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Speaker 1: out came out just this month, right fresh fresh off

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Speaker 1: the press.

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Speaker 2: Hit number one yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it is called I forgot to add that you host.

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Speaker 1: This is Richard Taate. He hosts a hit podcast called

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Speaker 1: We're Out of Time. It ranks number one in mental health,

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Speaker 1: number one in Health and Fitness and Top twenty overall

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. I'm sure people can find it on

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, where all the podcasts in the world are.

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Speaker 1: The new book is called Experiencing Transcendent, The Freedom of

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Speaker 1: Recovering from Addiction and Trauma, and we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about that when we come back. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI Am six forty re

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Speaker 1: live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. My guest Richard Tate,

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Speaker 1: a man who has done so much to help so

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Speaker 1: many people who struggle with addiction, someone who has been

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Speaker 1: in recovery himself for a very long time, runs Carrera Treatment,

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Speaker 1: Wellness and SPA. His new book, Experiencing Transcendence, The Freedom

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Speaker 1: of Recovering from Addiction and Trauma. Richard, what is transcendence

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound scientific to me.

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Speaker 2: Transcendence is like the sixth stage of change. So the

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Speaker 2: first stage is a complete denial, right, and then you

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Speaker 2: go to am I sure that maybe it's a problem,

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Speaker 2: And then you go all the way through the stages

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Speaker 2: until you get to maintenance. Maintenance is about staying sober

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Speaker 2: one day at a time, taking the right action after

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Speaker 2: the next right action after the next right action, transcendence

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Speaker 2: very few people get. But you can get it. You

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Speaker 2: can get it, and what that means is you no

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Speaker 2: longer have a problem with drugs and alcohol.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you've transcended that, like literally forgetting you're an addict.

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Speaker 2: You don't forget, okay, but it has no pull on

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Speaker 2: you at all. Right, so you have to think of

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Speaker 2: it like this. Okay, the AA way, which I love

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Speaker 2: AA by the way. Okay, it gave me a great foundation.

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Speaker 1: We know the twelve step works.

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Speaker 2: We do, we do, but people need more. Okay, some

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Speaker 2: people need more, and I was one of those people

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Speaker 2: that needed more. Okay, I mean, thank god there was more,

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Speaker 2: because I guarantee you ten thousand families are grateful that

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Speaker 2: I didn't die and it was close.

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Speaker 1: You know. So so what are the things that people

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Speaker 1: can do. Let's say they are somebody in recovery who

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Speaker 1: still live in that day to day maintenance phase. What

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Speaker 1: are the things that help them towards transcendence.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. Most people never get there. What

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Speaker 2: they do is they white knucklet right. They just they're

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Speaker 2: just a great metaphor. Well, it's not mine, it's a's

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Speaker 2: but you know they're white knuckling it and they're just

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Speaker 2: kissing God's rear, begging him to stay sober all day long.

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Speaker 2: And you know what, nobody loves God more than me.

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Speaker 2: But I got to tell you that's not good for thriving. Okay,

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Speaker 2: it's not. You're you're taking so much energy trying to

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Speaker 2: stay sober. Where's the energy for thriving and living your

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Speaker 2: best life? Okay? And so transcendence is about you're not

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Speaker 2: saddled with this disease forever. It's not a disease model.

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Speaker 2: It's if you do the work, if you're going to

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Speaker 2: therapy all the time, if you're working on yourself right,

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Speaker 2: if you've created something in your life that is more

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Speaker 2: valuable to you than the drinking and using, then you

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Speaker 2: can have transcendence. But you gotta work for it. You

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Speaker 2: gotta work for it.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I'm going to give you probably the worst metaphor,

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Speaker 1: but it just seemed to come into my head and

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Speaker 1: it made so much sense to me. So I nursed

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Speaker 1: each of my kids for three years. And weaning a

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Speaker 1: toddler is no pretty thing. I mean, the breast and

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Speaker 1: breast milk is their everything. It's their comfort, it helps

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Speaker 1: me go to sleep at night. It's their food source,

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Speaker 1: it is everything. And I remember reading a book on

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Speaker 1: how to wean a toddler off their favorite heroine, which

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Speaker 1: is mother's milk, and it said you can't just take

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Speaker 1: away something, you have to replace it with a different

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Speaker 1: kind of mother. And so while the sleeping in three

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Speaker 1: sports bras and e turtleneck was part of the thing,

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Speaker 1: the other part is literally doing more reading time with

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Speaker 1: them or more play time with them, helping them understand

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Speaker 1: that losing something is not so bad when they're gaining

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Speaker 1: something else. So it sounds like part of transcendence for

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Speaker 1: somebody struggling with addiction is about finding new passions and

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Speaker 1: new loves.

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Speaker 2: The only thing I heard in that whole thing was

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Speaker 2: you breastfed your kids.

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Speaker 1: For six years.

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Speaker 2: For six years, I mean, we are breastfeeding for two

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Speaker 2: years or a year and a half. And I asked

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Speaker 2: my ex, I'm like, you waiting for the kid to

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Speaker 2: get a car before.

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Speaker 1: You saw this, I just kept reading all these books

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Speaker 1: about brain development and blah blah blah. Okay, so my

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Speaker 1: kid did go.

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Speaker 2: To Harvard, so there it is, there it is, and

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Speaker 2: never got sick.

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Speaker 1: I merely got sick one time. Was that strep throat

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Speaker 1: thing that first year.

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Speaker 2: That's the greatest thing, you know, we we did that,

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Speaker 2: we had the way we weaned off that was we

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Speaker 2: just you know, I'm sure you did too. You froze

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Speaker 2: all of milk, right, yeah, and then over time.

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Speaker 1: Oh, you moved it from breast. My kids were so

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Speaker 1: flipping spoiled that they never learned or they refused rubber nipples,

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Speaker 1: so they only had it from the source their entire life. Ohs.

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Speaker 1: And people would say, she's pacifying herself on you, and

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Speaker 1: I go, I know that's what she needs to do

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Speaker 1: right now.

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Speaker 2: That's so you want to know what that's so wonderful?

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Speaker 1: O oh my god. But anyway, that's what I thought

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Speaker 1: of because I remember how hard it was that all

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Speaker 1: night and the crying, and I realized they were giving

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Speaker 1: up their first drug, right, and how do we replace it?

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Speaker 1: Right and finding a way to not just distract ourselves

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Speaker 1: and as you say, not to white knuckle it and

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Speaker 1: say I'm strong and I can get through this. But

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Speaker 1: how about there's something else that I'm so passionate about,

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Speaker 1: And for you, would you say it's about the giving

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Speaker 1: that you've done for others and continue to do.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I only know one way, okay, and it's different

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Speaker 2: from everyone else. Okay. I believe when you walk into

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Speaker 2: a treatment center you're so full of shame, Okay, that

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Speaker 2: to kick somebody when they're down is the ultimate and disrespect. Okay.

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Speaker 2: I would never do something like that. So love is

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Speaker 2: our base. And drug addicts and alcoholics are extremely talented,

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Speaker 2: and they're all suspicious, and they all think it's about

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Speaker 2: the money. And the second they think that, okay, you've

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Speaker 2: lost the alliance that you need, the therapeutic alliance that

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Speaker 2: you need in order to make change. So really, what

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Speaker 2: I've got is two hundred and fifty of the sweetest

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Speaker 2: souls you'll ever meet. And the first one hundred whereby

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Speaker 2: invitation only, okay, And I don't know if that's ever

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Speaker 2: been done. And the reason it was so important to

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Speaker 2: us is because we've never had someone here who is

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Speaker 2: desensitized to the process of helping another human being, because

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Speaker 2: if we did, that person would be shown the door. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: this is a love call, That's what it is. It's

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Speaker 2: a love call and it means everything because that's the foundation.

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Speaker 2: Unless you have that foundation, there is no treatment, There

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Speaker 2: is no healing because they're not open, they're not cracked open.

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Speaker 1: You know, a few weeks ago, I had the head

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Speaker 1: of cannabi research from UCLA here on the.

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Speaker 2: Show, doctor Timothy Pong.

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Speaker 1: Yes, he's so great, and he was saying that there's

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Speaker 1: an epidemic in cannabis. Like so many parents are so

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Speaker 1: happy that their gen Z kids aren't drinking alcohol. They're

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Speaker 1: just so excited that they're not drinking, but they're using

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Speaker 1: so much cannabis, right, And is the journey the same

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Speaker 1: whether someone's kid is addicted to cannabis or alcohol or

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Speaker 1: is a little different.

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Speaker 2: It's a little different. I mean, you know, alcohol affects

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Speaker 2: your decision making, right, so the second you're on alcohol,

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Speaker 2: you're you think it's a good idea to get behind

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Speaker 2: the wheel of a car, or to buy illegal drugs

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Speaker 2: off the street, or you know any number of stupid

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Speaker 2: things that can Remember when we talked about at the beginning,

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Speaker 2: when I said their frontal cortex isn't developed, so now

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Speaker 2: they're drunk on top of it, and they think they're indestructible,

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Speaker 2: and those are three horrible combinations together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: So that's that's my take on that.

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Speaker 1: Where can people get your book, Experience Transcendence Richard.

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Speaker 2: Experiencing Transcendence You can get on Amazon dot com. It

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Speaker 2: just hit number one yesterday on.

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Speaker 1: What was it, the Kimball the Kindle Kindle, Yeah, yeah, Kindle, right,

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Speaker 1: whatever that is.

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Speaker 2: And we're doing really well. It just came out a

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Speaker 2: month ago.

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Speaker 1: Experiencing Transcendence The Freedom of Recovering from Addiction and Trauma

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Speaker 1: by Richard Tate. Richard, what a pleasure to meet you

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Speaker 1: here in the studio. Thanks for being with us.

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Speaker 2: The pleasure was all mine and that.

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Speaker 1: Sadly for me because I'd like to be here all night.

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Speaker 1: Brings the Doctor Wendywall Show to a close. Have you

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Speaker 1: missed any part of the show. Remember producer Kayla puts

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Speaker 1: it all up on the iHeartRadio app. You can listen

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Speaker 1: to it anytime during the week. Follow me on my

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Speaker 1: social at Doctor Wendy Walsh. I'm there. I'm still hacked

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Speaker 1: by TikTok. If anybody listening who works at TikTok, here's

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Speaker 1: the problem. The hackers took my thing. They're not doing

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Speaker 1: anything with it. So TikTok very kindly froze the account.

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Speaker 1: But now TikTok doesn't know whether I'm the hackers or

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Speaker 1: I'm me, So if anybody knows a real human that

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Speaker 1: works at TikTok, please tell them to open up the

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