WEBVTT - 3-4-26 Sloan with Steve Goodin 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.559 Want to be an American flony back on seven hundred WLW. 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:09.360 There is nothing like a sleep when it's pouring rain outside, 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:11.040 so it just makes you sleep more. The only problem 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:13.520 with that is you got to get you gotta get 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.319 up right, and it was a slow move today for me. 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:20.520 I might be with you as well. We have horrible news, 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:22.599 of course with the fire. We'll get more than a 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.640 bit later on in Warren County, but also the follow 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.240 up from the mass shooting at Riverfront Live over the weekend. 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.240 Nine people shot, hundreds traumatized, and the man now accused 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.239 of pulling the trigger could walk free on a fifty 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.360 thousand dollars bond. He's climbing self defense and the mayor 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:42.080 is furious. The question, though, is why didn't prosecutors asked 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:43.800 to keep him locked up in the first place? On 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.720 that is attorney defense attorney, constitutional expert and all around 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:51.600 decent guy, Steve Gooden, Steve, how you doing, buddy, good 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:52.000 good boy? 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:52.960 Suh. 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.520 So we got the case of Frenny Cobb. He's twenty 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:58.240 four years old, arrested on a single felonious assault charge 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.200 in connection with the shooting. Nine people twenty injured in 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.720 the stampede. The judge set bonded fifty thousand dollars. Cobb 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:08.360 is a convicted fellon, illegally barred from having a firearm. 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:10.880 He was just in jail, got out of prison and 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.759 picked up a gun and went and shot an individual 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.800 in the crowd at this event on Saturday. He's had 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.520 two prior weapon under disability convictions before the shooting, including 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:22.679 one just a year ago, and only served twelve months 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:25.840 before his release. Steve, at what point does the systems 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.880 repeated leniency in this whole restorative justice thing and bail 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:33.559 reform towards an armed repeat offender across judicial discretion into 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.680 just absolute negligence, Because it feels like this is negligent 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:36.920 to me. 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:40.960 Well, look, this was a complete failure of the system 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:44.440 on multiple levels, and there's a lot to unpack here, 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.440 but one thing I do want to make clear, thank god, 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.120 that looks as of the US Attorney's Office has stepped 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.960 in with federal charges. They slapped what's called a federal 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.200 holder on these two gentlemen, both of whom I guess 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.520 there was a straight up gun battle the you, and 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:04.360 it looks as though that they're not going anywhere thanks 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.720 to the intervention of the FBI and the US Attorney's office, 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:12.040 so that at least, you know, they have rectified the situation, 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:14.640 at least for the moment. They are facing federal weapons 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.720 churages now that they could carry up to fifteen years each. 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:22.640 So that's good news. The bad news is, you're right, 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:25.520 there's no way either of these guys should have been 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:27.360 getting out on any kind of a low bond. And 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:32.040 you know, the saying is, you know, success as many fathers, 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:35.560 but failures and orphan here the failure has many many fathers. 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:38.399 It looks as though the prosecutors and the police officers 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.239 wok forward with a single count of colonious assault. It 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:43.760 looks clear to me that at this point they know 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:45.720 there was a gun battle, but there seems to be 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.000 a no nine people shot, twenty others injured, but there 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.120 seems to be a lack of clarity at this point 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.640 in the investigation is to who shot whom. So it 0:02:53.639 --> 0:02:56.359 looks as though they threw this kind of placeholder charge out. 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.800 That was mistake number one. You know, it didn't carry 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.280 the gravity or really communicate the gravity of what happened. 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.480 And then number two, we do have judges and I've 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.720 dealt with this judge before, Bernard Monday. He's actually overall 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:12.040 a really good judge. But there are a lot of 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.239 judges in this courthouse right now that have this ideological bent. 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:20.160 They don't believe in cash bond. They think it's unfair 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.840 that people like you and I who have means, if 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:25.720 we're accused of a crime, that we can go get 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.440 a put our house up, or have access sell stock 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.080 and post a bond. They think it's fundamentally unfair that 0:03:31.120 --> 0:03:34.080 people who don't have means are being held in jail. 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.840 It's an ideological thing that has nothing to do whatsoever 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.440 with the facts of a case. And it got so 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:42.760 bad in Hamilton County if you recall about three or 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:46.080 four years ago, Judge Megan Shanahan, he's now in the 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.600 High Supreme Court, actually put forward a statewide issue requiring 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:55.160 judges to consider public safety is an issue in the 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.200 posting or setting of cash bonds in addition to their 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.600 ability to pay, which is like sort of the progressive 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.920 democratic focus. It's always the ability to pay, not public safety. 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:07.360 So there's a requirement these judges have. It's in the 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:10.720 Ohio Constitution now imposed by the voters that they should 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.120 look at public safety above all else, and that clearly 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.880 just didn't happen here. So a fifty thousand dollars bond 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.320 conceivably posted, you know, a ten percent, which is the 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.120 standard I thing here. So someone could post five thousand 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.120 dollars cash of walk out on some sort of an 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:28.159 ankle bracelet. You know, that's a really bad, bad thing. 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:30.159 And you know, back when I was a prosecutor, we 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:35.080 viewed this very very differently twenty years ago. Not only 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:37.640 were you trying to protect the public, but you also 0:04:37.680 --> 0:04:40.000 wanted to protect the defendant because you know, in the 0:04:40.120 --> 0:04:43.279 in the immediate aftermath of some big public shooting like this, 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:46.479 you know, there tends to be victims, families looking for 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.120 them too. It's in society's interest, they're interest everyone for 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.200 them to sit. Look, if there's something flawed about this 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.479 case and it turns out that got the wrong guys, 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:57.640 you know, this will be presented to the grand jury 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.960 within ten days. Anyway, they'll be out of the worst 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.000 thing that happens here is that someone who is credibly 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.320 accused of a mass shooting sits in jail for ten 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:08.320 days while the authority sorted out. That's something that is 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:11.600 not offensive to our system or to society or anything 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:14.800 of the sort. And it's just common sense. And this 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:16.520 is the kind of stuff again that makes people look 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.080 at this and shake their head. And it's fascinating to 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:21.120 me that even the mayor, wait, and the mayor is out. 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.960 The mayor was somebody who was really really bragged about 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:28.400 remaking the carhouse and pushing these things and attacked cash 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:29.719 bonds and look. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.040 I remember that that isn't that irony? I don't want 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:33.840 to say delicious, because you know this is such a 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.400 serious crime, Steve Gooden, But here's a guy who campaigned 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.960 on restorative justice bond reform. We got to be better, 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:41.839 a gentler. We can't punch down. We've got to treat 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:44.520 people better. Okay, great, And now he's in the podium saying, 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.400 how the hell could this person get out into the 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.400 fifty thousand dollars buck It's because you and I said 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.000 progressive push for this, That's. 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:55.240 All I mean, that's absolutely read. I read this quote. Iomas, 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:56.919 you know, I think I still have a cell phone 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:58.560 here somewhere else. Who was going to text it it 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:00.840 Welcome to the party now, like we will have been 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.240 saying this for years and look, this is just in 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.800 This is one of those things that's been out there 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.840 for about ten to fifteen years on the progress among 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.880 progressive politicians that drives people. Not just one of these things. 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:14.560 It's an article of faith on that side. And you know, 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.560 like the way I try to explain it to my 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.839 my democratic friends is like this, and like, you know 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.880 how in seeing some people feel when you talk to 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.080 a hardcore conservative and say, guys, look, we believe in 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.839 gun rights, but we don't you think we should have 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:29.839 some gun control. Maybe you shouldn't be able to carry 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:32.320 an A forty seven out in public or AK forty 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:34.520 seven in public, and they say, no, no, no, no, 0:06:34.640 --> 0:06:36.880 it's got to be it's all or nothing. That's how 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:40.000 democrats sound when you in common sense people talk about 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:44.120 balbell or form. Well, it's just fundamentally unfair that rich 0:06:44.160 --> 0:06:47.360 people can postpond and well, no, actually, when you look 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.560 at the facts of the matter, when someone commits a 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.360 violent offense, there ought to be an ability to hold 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:56.280 on to them. And frankly, in the federal system there 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.640 is no cash bond. You have what's called a detention hearing, 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.880 where a magistrate, a federal magistrate looks at the facts 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:04.360 of the case, and if you're caught with a bunch 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.240 of drugs or guns, you're going nowhere. You have no 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:10.120 opportunity to postpond. It's been like that in this country 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.480 for two hundred and thirty four years in the federal system, 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.040 and the country hasn't fallen apart, and it's not some 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.320 grave injustice. So the idea that we're even we're just 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.360 playing with ourselves in state courts over this stuff. Ideologically, 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.960 at all they're doing is they're cycling more people out 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:28.760 to hurt others get killed, and it's just bad. Well 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.080 it's good here, but it's really bad here. Yeah. Yeah. 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:33.320 And there are some judges out there. I mentioned names 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:37.640 of Silverstein ordation and ordered banning objections during bond rulings, 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:40.840 which is just absolutely I don't even know if that's 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.600 legally permissible. The mont Is Merriweather thing. We bonded out 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.080 on a weapons disability charge and participated in the downtown brawl. 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.120 The Chiefs of Police Association wants to have roundtables the 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:54.640 judges refuse to participate in that they feel them bold 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.040 and to continue this pattern that puts the public in serious, 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:00.840 serious jeopardy. And that's back, of course by people like 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.840 mayor Pirival, who now wants to undo this and go, well, 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:05.800 maybe this was a bad decision, with Au admitting it 0:08:05.800 --> 0:08:08.640 was a bad decision. The judge judge in this case 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:10.720 you mentioned, Judge Mundy, he said a bond Steve good 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:12.840 than fifty thousand dollars in a single full only as 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:16.360 assault charge to the shooting on Saturday at Riverfront Live. 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.320 He said, look, my hands are tied by the charging decision, 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.200 says that's the max. That's all I can do. Did 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.640 he have any more discretion, broader discretion or you just 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:25.680 chose not to exercise it? 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.880 Well, you know, I it's arguable I would say that. 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:31.840 I but I think he did. I mean, look, I 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:35.080 mean is tech he is correct. They've put forward a 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:39.080 single case of a flows assault, not the nine charges 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:41.880 or however many this guy hit. They didn't also charge 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.040 him with any of the gun offenses for whatever reason, 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.560 which would have justified a higher bond. So they did 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.640 put the judge here in a kind of a bad place. 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.160 Why they made those decisions at this early stage, I 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.600 don't know. Maybe they're waiting on additional ballistic evidence. I 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:56.640 don't know, but it sounds pretty clear to me they 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.640 were able to put a gun on this guy's hand 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.000 and that there should have been more charges put there. 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.600 So that's correct. But I want to zone back in 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.320 on this public safety piece and if the judge could have, 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.800 in my view, argued and found that because of the 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.240 nature of the overall incident, that there was a true 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.079 public safety issue and that that justified a higher bond. 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:19.760 And what's going on in that arragement room all the time. 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:25.400 We're having judges who are deviating from this public safety requirement, 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:28.600 and because of the bond issue is usually washed through 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:30.840 the system so quickly because we have what we call 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.560 a rapid and dim grandury system. When all the felonies 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.640 and serious churches are dealt with in about ten days 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:38.560 and you have a new judge and it takes over, 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.640 there really is no effective way for the state to 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:45.040 appeal these bad decisions. And frankly, now we have a 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:49.360 situation where you have the prosecutor's office and all the 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.160 judges who are sort of on the same page it 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:56.439 seems ideologically anyway, But if the prosecutor wanted to appeal effectively, 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:58.600 they're not really going to have time. These judges are 0:09:58.640 --> 0:10:01.760 smart enough to know that. So they're really not posting 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.760 these high bonds for their ideological reasons, it seems to me. 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:07.720 I mean again, I don't know, but I mean we're seeing, 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:09.800 you know, they're campaigning on these sorts of things that 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.040 made public statements to this effect. So you're right. I mean, 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.080 Bernard Muddy was put in a very bad position, I 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:18.439 think by the charging decision, but he could have deviated, 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:20.560 as I understand that under Ohio law and put a 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:22.920 really high bond on this because there are clearly more 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.040 charges coming, no question. And again the Feds didn't mess 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:27.800 around with it. And I think that is the other 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.960 really interesting thing here because traditionally, but the US Attorney's 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:36.040 Office would work with the state attorney's office citing which 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.040 case is to take. And here it looks as though 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.319 from everything I have heard, that the US Attorney's Office 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.280 and the FBI at HTF just came in unilaterally and said, no, 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:47.520 we're taking we're taking this away because this isn't right. 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:51.240 Yeah, he is an attorney. Former prosecutor Defenser Steve Good 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.760 on the show on seven hundred WLWD News yesterday that 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:57.200 the individual, one of the individuals responsible for the mass 0:10:57.200 --> 0:10:59.880 shooting at Riverfront Live on Saturday or left nine people 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.480 shot and hundreds traumatized, could walk fan a fifty thousand 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.120 dollars bond that was posted yesterday by Judge Munday in 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.199 his court and said, listen, that's all I can do. 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.480 Even have apt had Peerval and other Democrats backpedaling on 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:13.959 the issue of restorative justice, because this is what it 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:17.040 looks like. You know, it's one thing to cite someone 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.960 or penalize someone and set a high bond because they've 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.200 got a bag of weed. But when you hire a 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.080 violent predatory criminal with a track record, that person needs 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.600 to be locked up and knocked up sooner rather than later. 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.360 In that regard, there's kind of an I don't know 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.439 if it's a loophole or not. Steven, maybe this supplies 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:34.440 with our standard ground law. I'm not sure, but take 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:37.720 me through the fact that the shooter on Fountain Square. 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.520 We sim shoot the two individuals at Citybird Chicken on 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.080 Fountain Square. That person was led out because the claim 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.160 that was self defense at the two inside the store, 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.280 and the video inside City Bird backed up that. The 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.200 I think the seventeen and eighteen year old if I'm 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:53.240 not necessair, nineteen year old pulled guns out and we're 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.040 going to shoot him through the glass while they're sitting 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.599 having chicken at a restaurant, and Fountain Square with a 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:00.280 bunch of people around, said it was self defense. This 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.760 guy was prohibited from having a weapon because he is 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.360 already convicted in this case. You've got individuals here who 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.360 both had a jacket on them that prevented them from 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.200 having a weapon, and yet they get around to turn 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.400 around and claim self defense. Do we kind of like 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:15.840 have a pattern of a loophole here? 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:20.880 What a little bit now, I think, frankly, I heard 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:22.680 this too. I saw this on the news, and I 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.920 actually watched a club of the video. This guy's lawyer, 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:29.800 the moprint Live Shooter. He is going to claim self defense, 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:32.360 but of course, as you point out, he is legally 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.920 barred from having a firearm. And it is exactly like 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:37.280 what happened to Fountain Square. Now, it looks as though 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.320 on Fountain Square they are still pursuing at least felony 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.600 charges against the individual for having the firearm to begin with, 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:46.160 even though it looks as though he did establish a 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:48.640 right to self defense and some of that you know 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.360 you're right stand your ground in Ohio actually make self 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:57.040 defense claims easier to assert, I guess because you don't 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.000 have a duty to retreat anymore. That's really all the change, 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.120 and it's very fact specific to every case. But here 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.800 in the Riverfront Live situation, I mean, the idea that 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.280 this guy that there were multiple individuals going into this 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:15.160 what I'm told was a private party with five or 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:18.880 six hundred people getting in there with firearms, both of 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.520 whom were legally barred from owning the firearms and having 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:25.200 them on their body. I mean, that's unfortunately that doesn't 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.439 under a highalog go to self defense piece. But they 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.199 will both base some charges. And it looks as though 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:36.880 the federal prosecuted US attorney is focusing on the weapons aspect, 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:39.640 at least initially in the charges that he is bringing 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.760 in federal courts. So it looks as though at least 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.560 the system was correcting itself from this instance on this. 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:49.360 But that is like that is the heart of the 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.080 problem that we're seeing in Cincinnati, which is convicted felons 0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:56.439 carrying guns with impunity and it not being taken very 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:58.120 seriously in the state courts. 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.280 We spent like six million dollars on what they call 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.840 targeted community alternatives to prison. It's a program, another program, 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.920 no more programs, I swear to God. But and it's 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.800 designed to divert following the offenders away from incarceration. Someone 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:15.720 with the Cobbs record cocaine trafficking, two weapons under disability convictions. 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.560 I don't understand how your candidate for diversion in that 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.400 guy who decides why he would be eligible for diversion, 0:14:22.440 --> 0:14:23.000 how's that work? 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.880 Well? I mean, typically it's a judicial decision where the 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:31.200 prosecutor's office does sign off and they what they look 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.640 at or non violent offenses, and for better or worse, 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.840 by and large, under Ohio law, merely possessing the gun 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.240 but not using the gun is considered, you know, non violent. 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.560 I mean they're looking at they're looking as someone who 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.520 actually has pulled the gun on someone or who has 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:49.400 attacked someone. And and the kind of drift of where 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:51.720 the system is right now, not just in Cincinnati but 0:14:51.800 --> 0:14:54.640 statewide is to look at drug offenses in sort of 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.040 a more forgiving way. And I mean there's there's certainly 0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:00.080 an argument to that effect, but what the way I 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:01.520 I always looked at it and the way we looked 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.200 at it back in the day when when I worked 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.960 in the in the prosecutor's office under very different administrations, 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.000 is we looked at drug users and addicts in a 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.000 very different light than we looked at drug dealers, because 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.520 we saw drug dealers as folks who tended to be armed, 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.440 who were capable of violence, whether they had committed violence 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.840 in the offense or not, and that they were profiting 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.360 off the misery and addiction of others. So we always 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:24.400 looked at those folks very differently, and I think that 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.320 has eroded over time, and now just drug offenses generally 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.120 are looked at by a lot of the judges and 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.240 a lot of the prosecutors, not just here but statewide. 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.360 There's just being well, it's just part of the overall 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.360 drug problem, quote unquote, And I think we would all 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:40.480 be better served as society to look at if you 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:42.680 had the way we looked at it at a grand jury, 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:45.600 is drugs and you're using and drugs in your system, 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:47.800 you know, maybe that's somebody that does need to be 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.720 diverted into a treatment scenario and not have their lives ruined. 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.880 Drugs plus a gun and the drugs are packaged in 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:56.240 a certain way, that's the guy that that's the guy 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.600 that deserves to go to prison because he's profiting from it. 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.920 And that kind of common sense sort of analysis is 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:05.920 sort of followed by the wayside over the years. 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.960 From what I yeah, no question, Sarah Herringer, Patrick's widow 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.680 is pushing a law that would require real time ankle 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.400 monitor data and making cutting one off an automatic felony. 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:17.800 And it hasn't passed. But if that had been on 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.200 the book with his murder, Mordecai Black want to say, 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:23.480 Patrick Herringer, does the same logic apply to supervision of 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:25.280 repeat gun defenders post release like this? 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.800 You know it should. And I'll tell you, I think, 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.320 you know what if if we get a probation officer 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.160 here on the phone with us and he was given 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:37.000 some truth surm, I think they would tell you that 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:41.360 the technology and the funds just aren't there at the 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.480 county level to really monitor these ropes. And I got 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:48.120 to know Sarah, unfortunately pretty well through all this, and 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.040 I can tell you that you know that there were 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.440 many many failures there. There were personal failures, but there 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.480 was a system's failure. There's a technology failure. We have 0:16:56.360 --> 0:17:01.760 the ability to to do real time monitoring both on 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.640 probation and then hurt the situation. Unfortunately with Mordecai black 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.000 on parole, A's just we don't as a society spend 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.760 the money there, we don't staff these things the right way, 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:14.760 and we just have not made it a priority. And 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:16.720 that's a shame because if we are going to let 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.199 people out and have these inkle monitors, they ought to 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.520 be able to work. And really it's the same technology 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.159 they've had since the mid nineties. And you're right, you 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.360 can take a kitchen knife and cut one of them off. 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.320 You were so sure. So it's no way to do that. 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:31.320 Yeah, the idea that we don't have the technicians say, 0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:33.080 I mean, I've got an Apple watch right now, and 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.199 it'll sell you know, it'll wear it at night. You know, 0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:38.159 it'll tell you your quality sleep, will tell you how 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:40.119 much you're sleeping. You'll tell you if you're snoring, if 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.359 you tell if you're an a FIB, give you an 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.040 EKG and do all these amazing things. You need to 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:48.199 tell me that the technology doesn't exist to go, hey, listen, 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.080 if you cut this thing off, instant alarm bells go 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:53.600 off or in the case of a gun film like this, 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.600 maybe they need one that uses that technology that would 0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.159 sense if that individual shoots a firearm and an automatic 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.000 goes off and said, this person who is prohibited from 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.800 having a firearm just shot one off, you go and 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:07.679 arrest the guy. How hard is that? I don't think 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.720 it's that hard. But we've got to have the political 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.040 will power, of course, to do these things. He is 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:15.680 Steve Gooden, attorney at law, former prosecutor around defense. Steve 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.480 all the best, Thanks again for coming on the show anytime. 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:21.239 Scott take care always got great legal analysis for us. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.240 Here it's it's mindless and you know how to show 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.760 you the problem that I have with politics as a 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:30.120 no nonsense, straightforward, common sense kind of guy, a political 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.639 if you will, that this is a great example of 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.080 progressives and Democrats talking out of both sides of their 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.920 mouth that you know, you have have to have pure 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.040 of all in other progressives who ran on the whole 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.920 doctrine of restorative justice and bond reform, well, this is 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:45.479 what it looks like. These are the effects of that 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:47.800 that these guys get out and just commit crime after 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.840 crime because some people you can't reform. Actually a lot 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:54.240 of people you can't reform. Why give them a second, third, 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.439 or fourth chance. It's just throwing lives. The blood is 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.600 on their hands, on their hands. I'll switch up in 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.119 a second here, and there's another speaking of politics in 0:19:04.160 --> 0:19:06.679 the squaretgard The same thing is kind of happening. You know, 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:08.879 in an election, there was a lot made about you know, 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:11.600 transgender people in bathrooms, in that stuff. There's not enough 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:14.800 of them to cause the problems that were indicated during 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:16.679 the election. But I got an example of, you know, 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:20.320 turning the tables around here of that happening actually in 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:24.480 Warren County in a very very serious, disgusting case that 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:28.160