1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: It's nice with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy Boston's 2 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: News Radio. 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 2: Thank you, Dan Watkins. Yesterday afternoon, there was a news 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 2: conference that involved the Attorney General here in Massachusetts, Andre Campbell, 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 2: and a special counsel, David Meyer. I know David Meyer 6 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 2: very well. I think of all the assistant district attorneys 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: that I have dealt with in my career, both in 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 2: television and radio, he along with a colleague of his 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,200 Speaker 2: who did some work on the Selvatdie case, are two 10 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: of the most absolutely honest, thorough, intelligent district attorneys. And 11 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 2: I have complete confidence in David Meyer. He spoke at 12 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 2: the news conference yesterday along with the Attorney General. Let 13 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: me start off with a SoundBite from the Attorney General. 14 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 2: We're going to be speaking in a moment with a 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: lawyer for the family of Enrique Dogado Garcia, the young 16 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,160 Speaker 2: man who lost his life while training to become a 17 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 2: state police officer, was eventually on his deathbed given a 18 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 2: badge and became officially a member of the state Police. 19 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: Pretty sad under those circumstances. But let me first go 20 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: to the Attorney General, Andrea Campbell, yesterday talking about Enrique 21 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 2: Dogado Garcia, cut fifteen, Please Rob. 22 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 3: He was a son, a brother, an uncle, and a friend, 23 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: and a rique should be alive today. We can both 24 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,680 Speaker 3: honor the men and women who serve while also still 25 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: ensuring accountability within a system, especially when someone dies. 26 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: As a consequence of the investigation conducted by Special Consul 27 00:01:55,280 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 2: Attorney David Meyer, four officers in the Massachusetts State Police 28 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: who are associated with the training center out in New 29 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 2: Brainfree in New Braintree have been indicted for, amongst other things, 30 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: in manslaughter. Originally identified as a sergeant I believe as 31 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 2: Lieutenant Jennifer Penton, Trooper Edwin Rodriguez, Trooper David Montanez, and 32 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 2: Trooper Casey Lamont. All four face charges of involuntary manslaughter. 33 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: Penton also faces a charge of perjury and I believe 34 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: that there's also some battery charges which would be you know, 35 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 2: super all encompassing. This is Attorney Meyer on the substance 36 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: of his investigation Cut twenty, Please Rob. 37 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,799 Speaker 4: The evidence gathered by the Special Statewide Grand Jury has 38 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 4: revealed that in the days and weeks prior to September twelfth, 39 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 4: twenty twenty, four members of the State Police Training Academy 40 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 4: committed a series of wanton and reckless acts in connection 41 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 4: with various defensive tactics and physical confrontation training exercises conducted 42 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 4: at the Academy. The facts and circumstances underlying the wanton 43 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 4: and reckless conduct include both a affirmative acts by academy staff 44 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 4: and b the failure of academy staff to take certain 45 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 4: actions or omissions that they had a legal duty to 46 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 4: perform during their daily interactions with the trainees who were 47 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,119 Speaker 4: under their care, guidance and supervision. 48 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 2: He described that wanton and reckless conduct in Cut twenty 49 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: one rob. 50 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 4: The wanton and reckless conduct resulted in Enrique Delgado Garcia 51 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 4: suffering concussion like symptoms as the result of unauthorized, unapproved, 52 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 4: and unsupervised boxing related sparring exercises that occurred during Academy 53 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 4: training acts activities on Wednesday, September eleventh, twenty twenty four. 54 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 4: The wanton and reckless conduct culminated in Enrique Delgado Garcia 55 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 4: suffering multiple blunt force injuries to the head and massive 56 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 4: brain bleeding as the result of the failure of academy 57 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 4: staff to intervene and bring a stop to a competitive 58 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 4: boxing match between mister Delgado Garcia and a fellow trainee 59 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 4: that occurred during academy training activities the following morning on Thursday, 60 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,359 Speaker 4: September twelve, twenty twenty four. Mister Delgado Garcia died the 61 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 4: following day, September thirteen, twenty twenty four, as a result 62 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 4: of the head injuries sustained during the recruit on recruit 63 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 4: boxing match that Thursday morning. 64 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 2: And finally from David Meyer, the Special Council here essentially 65 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: his conclusion cut twenty two. 66 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 4: Rum based upon the facts and the law the evidence gathered, 67 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 4: the grand jury compels criminal prosecution of certain members of 68 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 4: the Academy's Defensive Tactics Unit, the supervisor of the unit, 69 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 4: and three full time instructors. These individuals engaged in ongoing 70 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 4: interactions with Enrique Delgado Garcia on September eleventh, when he 71 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 4: suffered concussion like symptoms. 72 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,720 Speaker 2: We joined now by one of the attorneys representing the 73 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: family of the deceased Trooper en Rique Delgado garcias Attorney 74 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: Lewis Alouse. Attorney Aluse, thanks for joining us tonight on Nightside. 75 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 2: I'm sorry that we've come to this point, but obviously 76 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 2: the public is appalled what happened to the The sun 77 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 2: of your client's family. 78 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, it's us a tragedy. As the Attorney General 79 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 5: said yesterday, Uh, Enrique should be alive today. This was 80 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 5: a completely unnecessary, uh complete disregard for the safety and 81 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 5: well being of people in the in the care of 82 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 5: the State police. It's it's truly an unfortunate and tragic thing, 83 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 5: not only for my client's family, uh, the family of Enrique, 84 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 5: but also because because of what it's done to the 85 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 5: reputation of the State Police. 86 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 2: I've known during my career many State police officers, and 87 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: I've been told that the the training that they have 88 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 2: been subjected to, and I'm talking about people who went 89 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: through this training back in the seventies and in the eighties, 90 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 2: has always had an element of brutality. Uh. You know, 91 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 2: it's it's it's not inconsistent with almost what you would 92 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,800 Speaker 2: think about as boot camp for the Marine Corps at 93 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: Paris Island, they pushed people to their limits. But it 94 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: sounds to me like the son of this family was 95 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 2: put in a situation where he was forced to box 96 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: on one day September I guess eleventh, or September tenth 97 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: or September eleventh, and he must have suffered some head blows. 98 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: I assumed that they had some helmets and protective equipment, 99 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: and I assumed that there should have been someone there, 100 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 2: if not in the ring, outside the ring, to supervise 101 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: what was going on. And again the Special Council, David Meyer, 102 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: has found that he suffered, you know, concussion like symptoms. 103 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: They won't let you play in the National Football League 104 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: if you have concussion like symptoms. And yet he was 105 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 2: put back in the boxing ring the next day. 106 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 5: It's much worse than It's much worse than that. The 107 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 5: first of all. First of all, yes, it is bootleg 108 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 5: camp in a way, but the boxing program, as I 109 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 5: understand it has kind of long and tortured history with 110 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 5: the State Police. It has been it has been implemented, 111 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 5: it has been suspended. 112 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: Uh. 113 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 5: You know, the question is, if you're going to have 114 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 5: boxing as a defensive tactic, you have to ask yourself 115 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 5: why would that actually be necessary. One of the questions 116 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 5: that you're that arose in this case is on September eleventh, 117 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 5: in preparation for this boxing day program, they had sparren 118 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 5: supposedly wherein the cadets were told not to go one 119 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 5: hundred percent and they were supposed to have been specifically 120 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 5: supervised to see whether or not they would very skill 121 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 5: level so that the various cadets the next day could 122 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 5: be matched up appropriately. That's number one. Number two, their 123 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 5: rules of regulations required that they'd be examined to see 124 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 5: whether or not anyone suffered an injury or perhaps a 125 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 5: concussion on that sparring day. None of that was done. 126 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 5: In fact, the next day when Enrique was put into 127 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 5: the ring. That is only the second time Enrique have 128 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 5: a stepped foot in the boxing ring before the first 129 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 5: time being the day before. He was paired apparently against 130 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 5: another cadet who was an experienced amateur boxer, soar understanding 131 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 5: that he was during the course of that about on 132 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 5: the twelve, the actual day of the boxing match, he 133 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 5: was knocked down two or three times and that fight 134 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 5: was never stopped. Now that that wouldn't happen in a 135 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 5: professional boxing setting, let alone a training exercise. What were 136 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 5: we training for here? We're we're training to see if 137 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 5: he can get knocked down and get up again. What 138 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 5: was the purpose of the exercise? 139 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: Was it really. 140 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 5: Defensive tactics or did it have something to do. We're 141 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 5: looking to identify those cadets that may be good or 142 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 5: potentially good boxes to be recruited for the State Police 143 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,559 Speaker 5: boxing team. That's one of the questions that has to 144 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 5: be answered. 145 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 2: Sure, sure, did the cadets while they were in the 146 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 2: ring boxing? Did they at least have the benefit of headgear, mouthpieces, 147 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 2: you know what I would consider to be absolutely necessary 148 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 2: protective gear. 149 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 5: Yes, yes, So let me tell you this based upon 150 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 5: what apparently was the disparity between the skill level a 151 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 5: lack thereof, of Enrique and this other cadet. When Enrique 152 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 5: apparently was rushed to UMass Medical Center after he was 153 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 5: unresponsive in the ring the trauma This is anecdote, but 154 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 5: we have several witnesses to attest to this. When the 155 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 5: trauma surgeon rushed into attend to Enrique, not knowing what 156 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 5: had happened, came into the room that Enrique was laying there, 157 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 5: looked at him and exclaimed, in the presence of more 158 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 5: than one witness, was this the head on collision? That's 159 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 5: the level of beating that they allowed this young man 160 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 5: to take. 161 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 2: And for the record, he died the next day. 162 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 5: That's correct, never regained consciousness. 163 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 2: I must tell you that it's an appalling story. This. 164 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 2: The State Police, which for many years have been considered 165 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 2: the best police force in Massachusetts, has has had so 166 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 2: many problems in the last few years, but none as 167 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 2: tragic as the loss of this young man's life. 168 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 5: Who you know, it's it's really it's it's really sad. 169 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 5: I mean, you know, I know you mentioned earlier in 170 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:36,560 Speaker 5: your introduction your prior contact with David Byer, who, by 171 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 5: the way, uh went well beyond what was required of 172 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 5: him in keeping us and the family abreast of the 173 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 5: progress of the investigation, telling us in generalized terms of 174 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 5: what was happening. I have to commend them. You know, 175 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 5: this is a very sad situation because you know, David 176 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 5: Meyer has a former assistant DA. I'm a former assistant DA. 177 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 5: In my prior life, I work with the State Police 178 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 5: for many many years. I prosecuted when I was a DA, 179 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 5: I prosecuted the individual responsible for the death of Super 180 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 5: George Hannah way back in the last century. 181 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, of course, see there was just a lot 182 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 2: of publicity about about that guy looking for appro No, 183 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 2: David Meyer and also Mark Lee were the two assistant 184 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: das in Suffolk County. Now Mark is now a judge. 185 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: I believe, and they were two of the most reputable, straightforward, honest, 186 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 2: conscientious assistant das and I dealt with many in my career. 187 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 2: Let me do this, Attorney A loose Let me just 188 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: hold you for one more segment here. We got to 189 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: take a very quick break, a couple more minutes, and 190 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: I will let you go at nine point thirty. And 191 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: thank you for being available to us tonight, because you 192 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 2: have filled in a lot of the background to this 193 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: story and it's been very helpful. Just stay right there 194 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: and we'll be right back with you, I promise. 195 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 5: Okay, A loise. 196 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Thank you for the correct for 197 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 2: the correction and the predise A loie, thank you very much. Okay, 198 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: back on Nightside right after. 199 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: This, You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's 200 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: news Radio. 201 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 2: My guest is Attorney Lewis Alosh, Attorney A loice A Loise, 202 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 2: A loise, I'm sorry, I apologize, A loise, A loise. 203 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 2: I'm trying to draw it. And anyway, you represent the 204 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: family of Enrique de Gotto Garcia. I assume at this 205 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: point you were going to wait until the conclusion you 206 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 2: have a civil case. You will wait till the conclusion 207 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 2: of the criminal matter. I'm assuming unless there's some offer 208 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 2: that comes forward to settle a civil suit. 209 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 5: But we will put in motion, uh the the necessary 210 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 5: preparation for the filing of a civil suit. Obviously, if 211 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 5: the state, the State Police want to discuss the matter 212 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 5: in advance, will certainly be willing to do that, but 213 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 5: we are going to be prepared to file suit. Obviously, 214 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 5: the civil suit is not in any way or the 215 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 5: potential civil suit is not in any way dependent upon 216 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 5: the criminal case. Criminal case, as you know, requires that 217 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 5: the that David Meyer on behalf of the Commonwealth proved 218 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 5: beyond the reasonable doubt each of the elements necessary to 219 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 5: make out the crimes that have been indicted in a 220 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 5: civil case. 221 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 2: Beyond the reasonable and beyond a reasonable doubt, which is 222 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 2: a different standard in civil case. 223 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 5: Much much much different. In a civil case, you have 224 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 5: to show it's more likely than not our ponderance of 225 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 5: the ovens. If you look at the scales of justice, 226 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 5: in a civil case, you have to tip the scales 227 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 5: in your favor ever so slightly, and in a criminal 228 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 5: case you have to tip the scale significantly. 229 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 2: Let me just ask you one question, which you more 230 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: than welcome not to answer, but as a lawyer, the 231 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: question pops up into my mind, and that is because 232 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 2: of the publicity in this case, and because of the 233 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: significant impact it's going to have on the state police 234 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 2: and their reputation. Will you be willing to tell us 235 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 2: that the amount that you eventually secure for the family, 236 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 2: and there's no amount of money that can bring this 237 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: young man back or provide the companionship that he would 238 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 2: have provided in his career to his family and the 239 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: life he lived. There's no amount of money that anyone 240 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: would act after this. But you know, there's a lot 241 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 2: of controversy right now dealing with non disclosure agreements, and 242 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 2: I ask you the question in the context of that, 243 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: there's efforts by the state auditor to audit the legislature 244 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 2: and make sure that Okay, do you I'm going to 245 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 2: ask you the question this way, I'll ask it more gently. 246 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 2: Do you feel it's an important consideration in this case 247 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:29,200 Speaker 2: that there'll be complete transparency and when either a settlement 248 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: is reached, and of course, if it's a jury verdict, 249 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 2: I assume that would be publicized anyway if it's if 250 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 2: it's a verdict, But if a settlement is reached. Uh, 251 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: that it be fully disclosed to the public, Yes. 252 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 5: Or no the one On one level, yes, but on 253 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 5: another level, you know, from from an attornished perspective, myself 254 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 5: and my partner Mike Wilcock, we have to do what's 255 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 5: in the best interests of our client, and that's our 256 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 5: fundamental focus, is that. 257 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: Uh. 258 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 5: And and if we look only at that and it 259 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 5: becomes apparent that we can, for example, settle this case 260 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 5: in a manner that's that that's favorable to our clients, 261 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 5: but that requires some sort of non disclosure arrangement, it 262 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 5: would be remiss inappropriate for an attorney representing a family 263 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 5: like we are not to consider that, even though you know, 264 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 5: looking at it and generalized terms, you may be right 265 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,119 Speaker 5: that they may be the way to go, but you know, 266 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 5: we can't, we can't commit to that because that would 267 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 5: not be zealously representing our clients. Like you said at 268 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 5: the start of the question, you know, unfortunately or fortunately 269 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 5: I guess, the law only a civil case or civil 270 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 5: law only allows the law can only compensate with money. 271 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 5: And as you said at the beginning, and it's absolutely 272 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,760 Speaker 5: one true, there is no amount of money, none that 273 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 5: you compensate these people for their loss, and not only 274 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 5: not only that, but each and every day they suffer again. 275 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,199 Speaker 5: When we when we disclosed before this all became public 276 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 5: yesterday to the family that this had come, that this 277 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 5: was going to happen, it was like he had died. 278 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 5: That moment that mother was shattered again again. So you know, 279 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 5: you simply can't quantify that. You can't do that, and 280 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 5: you know the law does the best it can. We 281 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 5: can't bring him back. Therefore, the only thing that that 282 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 5: is left to do is to compensate the family, and 283 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 5: monetary terms, it seems shallow, but that is the only 284 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 5: thing that the law allows to show that. There must 285 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 5: be not only criminal accountability, and that's the job David 286 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 5: Meyer and his team and a jury that will consider it, 287 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 5: but civil accountability as well. And that's odd job. 288 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 2: And that's a very good answer, and I would expect 289 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 2: a very good answer from you, Counselor. So I thank 290 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 2: you for spending some time with us tonight. We wish 291 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 2: you all the all the best. We please send our 292 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 2: best to the family of Enrique Delgado Gacia and let 293 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 2: us hope that out of this tragedy some good comes 294 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 2: and some reform comes within the the training program for 295 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 2: for future state police recruits and also police police recruits 296 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 2: in cities and towns across across the Commonwealth. Counselors, thank you. 297 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 5: I certainly hope so, I certainly hope so I would 298 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 5: hope that we're never going to have this happen again. 299 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 2: We can only pray, and I'm sure in this case 300 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 2: will have a big impact on that council. Thank you 301 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 2: so much for your time tonight. Really do appreciate it. 302 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 2: Welcome attorney Attorney Lewis Alos. Uh the uh, I think 303 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 2: I got it there. Well, we'll take a break here 304 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 2: and I'd like to just open up the phone lines 305 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 2: and give all of you an opportunity to comment on 306 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 2: this case. I mean this is there have been cases before, 307 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 2: you know, petty cases where uh, you know, state police 308 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 2: were accused of putting in more overtime uh than than 309 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 2: they had a right to. Uh. We've seen some of that. 310 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 2: We've seen a little bit of the uh, the the 311 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 2: situations with the CDL licenses and the licenses that were given. 312 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 2: I think this was out of Brockton and UH. There 313 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 2: have been a couple of allegations against individual state police 314 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: officers of UH trying to bargain with women for sexual 315 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,760 Speaker 2: favors if in return for not writing them a ticket. 316 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 2: I mean, the processes is never complete, but this goes 317 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 2: beyond anything that I would have ever imagined that the 318 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 2: State Police would have allowed something like this to happen. 319 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 2: And those four officers a lieutenant and three four officers 320 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 2: who were running the state Police training program. They're facing 321 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 2: involuntary manslaught of charges and that could involve they've lost 322 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 2: their accreditation. They they've lost there. They'll probably be paid 323 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 2: until there's some form of State Police hearing, and that 324 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 2: is the least of their concerns. Right now. They could 325 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 2: be looking at a at jail time and never working 326 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: again in law enforcement. 327 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:03,239 Speaker 6: UH. 328 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 2: This is a this is a tough one. We haven't 329 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 2: talked about it much since this young man lost his 330 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 2: life back in September, but I'd love to just open 331 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 2: up the lines now talk about this until ten o'clock 332 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 2: maybe beyond, but later on tonight we will be talking. 333 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 2: I do intend to talk about some of the developments 334 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 2: in the Nancy Guthrie case, and that is a story 335 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 2: that we're keeping an eye on even as we are 336 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 2: doing this program. So you're invited to join six one, seven, two, five, 337 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 2: ten thirty six seven nine, three, one thirty. My name 338 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 2: is Dan Ray. Join us. We'll be back right after this. 339 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w BZ, 340 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 2: Boston's news radio. All right, we're going to go to 341 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 2: phone calls now. We are talking about the tragic death, 342 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 2: the unnecessarily tragic death of Enrique Delgado Gacia. Let me 343 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 2: go first to Paul in Nantaska. Paul, you are first 344 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 2: this hour and night, so I appreciate your patience. 345 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 7: Go right ahead, Hey, Dan, quick question the guy he's fighting, 346 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 7: was he like saying size? 347 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: Say weight? 348 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 5: Which like the guy hit him pretty good? 349 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it might have been a little better than he was. 350 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 2: By the way, our line is is kind of crackling here. 351 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 2: Let me give you a quick answer my understanding. Did 352 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 2: we lose him there? Rub Paul in Fantaska. We were 353 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 2: having a crackle on your line, which we've experienced a 354 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 2: little too frequently in the last few weeks. If you 355 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 2: can call back, we'll put you right back on. But 356 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 2: an answer to your question, what the attorney said to 357 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 2: us was the day before they were supposed to do 358 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 2: some light sparring in which I guess an assessment, an 359 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 2: assessment was to be made of how much experience any 360 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 2: of these state police recruits had. Now again this was 361 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 2: this was some weeks into the into the process. And 362 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 2: and they always start with a bigger class and and 363 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: not everybody, you know, completes the course in the class, 364 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 2: simple as that. So I you know, apparently he was 365 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 2: knocked down two or three times and that fight should 366 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 2: have been stopped. Uh. And I think you also heard 367 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,959 Speaker 2: what the attorney told us that when he was men 368 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 2: of ACKed to a hospital in Wooster. Uh, the surgeon 369 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 2: who came in too to treat him asked if it 370 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 2: was a head on collision. So he was in pretty 371 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 2: rough shape. This is a tragedy. This is a tragedy 372 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 2: that never should have happened. Uh, it's as It's as 373 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 2: simple as that. Let me go back again, Paul, we 374 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 2: lost you. You were unaligne. That has been giving us trouble. 375 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:51,880 Speaker 1: Rob. 376 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 2: I want these phones, you know, checked every night that 377 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 2: this is happening much too frequently. So let's let's uh 378 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 2: begin to have it tomorrow night. Every night reboot them. 379 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 2: Let me go next to Robert and Wellesley, Robert next 380 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 2: on night side you're comment a question, Please. 381 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 7: Your your interview questions are expert, and your guests answers, 382 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 7: We're also expert, and I'd like to respond to them 383 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 7: if I could. I think I thought his answer about 384 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 7: the limitations of the legal system was very good. I 385 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 7: think that it means that because the state police, the 386 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 7: job of a state police officer is a desired occupation, 387 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 7: a good paying job, people are going to be aiming 388 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 7: for that. And so I think it's it's follows that 389 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 7: the public needs to be protected and that and and 390 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 7: that that can happen uh across the board if more 391 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 7: of an effort is made by Jim's and school physical 392 00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 7: education programs. 393 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: To include uh uh non. 394 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 7: Contact boxing exercise which can which can teach near smarring 395 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 7: skills and and also provide the necessary physical conditioning so 396 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 7: that someone would be able. 397 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 5: To uh undertake spine. 398 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 7: This was obviously not done in the case of the 399 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 7: of the victim, and that could be that could be avoided. 400 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how often state police officers would 401 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: find themselves having to duke it out on the roadways 402 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,960 Speaker 2: of the Commonwealth. In most instances, if a state police 403 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 2: officer is going to feel that he can take someone 404 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 2: that he needs to take someone into custody. They're pretty 405 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 2: good at being able to immobilize you pretty quickly in 406 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 2: terms of you know, again, there there are there are 407 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 2: tactics that I don't think boxing is a skill that 408 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: most state police would utilize in their in the course 409 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 2: of their career. And I'm not disagreeing with you. Obviously, 410 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 2: physical education and skills are so important. Even our great 411 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 2: friend Jordan Rich who's doing boxing to ward off UH 412 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 2: and to minimize the impact of Parkinson's disease. As we 413 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 2: learned last week. You know, footwork and balance and UH 414 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 2: and and all of that. But in most cases, if necessary, 415 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 2: state police they know how to take you down and 416 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: UH and get your hands behind your back. But but 417 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 2: this this guy was knocked down two or three times 418 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 2: the day before, was displaying symptoms of concussions. You can't 419 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 2: even play in the NFL. I mean, they'll they'll say 420 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 2: to you can't play next week. You've you've dealt with 421 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 2: the concussion and you haven't come back. 422 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: Uh. 423 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 2: And they put him back in the ring and and 424 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 2: and he he really got dusted up and probably never 425 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 2: should have been back in the ring. That next day, 426 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 2: the results kind of speaks for the speak for themselves. Robert. 427 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 2: I'll give you a final comment though, but go ahead. 428 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 7: You have a valid point. But also what raises the 429 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 7: issue of what can happen when there is suppression of boxing, 430 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 7: exercise and training in our in our fitness programs. 431 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 2: Okay, throwing up, I would say. 432 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 7: That's a that's the counter point. You have a valid point, 433 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 7: but I think there is a counterpoint to that. 434 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 2: I think I think you're right and all sorts of 435 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 2: you know, self defense skills are important just in your 436 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: regular life in my opinion, Robert, Thank you, sir. I 437 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 2: got you in before the break, but I got to 438 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 2: get to a break right now. Thank you, thank you, 439 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 2: Thanks Robert. We take a quick break. I got Steve 440 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 2: and Cambridge, John and Boston. We'll get to them at 441 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 2: least if you want to carry this in the next hour, 442 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 2: we can do that as well. The only lines open 443 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 2: right now are six, one, seven, nine, three thirty. Back 444 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 2: on the night's side. 445 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on. 446 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 8: Boston's news radio. 447 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 2: Okay, back to the cause we go. Let me go 448 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 2: to Steve and came Steve, welcome, How are you sure? 449 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:03,200 Speaker 2: Sorry for the the lego right ahead. 450 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 6: That's quite right, Dan, I'm fine. How are you? 451 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 2: I'm doing fine? What's my teams like? 452 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 6: You know, every time I call you, it's about some 453 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 6: sad event. The last time I talked to you is 454 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 6: molly bish. 455 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I don't know which is worse. 456 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 6: That's worse, I guess, but it's hard to compare. 457 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: Dan. 458 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 6: Aren't you surprised that there has been no internal investigation 459 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 6: and a report made to the governor. I mean, shouldn't 460 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 6: that have been done already? 461 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 2: No? I think I think because of the magnitude of 462 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 2: the event, you know, the loss, the magnitude of this loss, 463 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 2: it was really beyond the state police. This is not 464 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: something that the state police should have investigated on their own, obviously. 465 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 2: And they brought in a fellow that I know, David Meyer, 466 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 2: who to me is you know, he's he's above reproach. 467 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 2: They couldn't have picked, in my opinion, better special counsel 468 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:03,280 Speaker 2: special counsel here. 469 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 6: Does the governor pick the counselor? 470 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 2: No, I believe the Attorney general did. 471 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 6: Oh really, do we know what the status of the 472 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 6: now defendants is? I mean, are. 473 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 2: They they have they have lost their their accreditation as 474 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 2: police officers, which means they cannot serve. Uh, they have 475 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 2: been relieved of their duties. 476 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 6: Uh. 477 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 2: Their their equipment, UH, their vehicle, their car, their gun, 478 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 2: uniforms are to be returned. And then I'm sure they 479 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: will have some internal uh hearing at a to be 480 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 2: to be determined date, uh internally, but they're also going 481 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: to have to face criminal charges involuntary manslaughter. The the 482 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 2: head of this group, uh, this training staff, uh, a 483 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 2: lieutenant as I believe is her rank, is charged with perjury. 484 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 6: Oh, perjury, yes, but that's of course a separate well it's. 485 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 2: It's a separate charge, but but it is completely involved here. 486 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 2: If you're going to perjure yourself over that involves the 487 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 2: death of a recruit whose care rested with you, and 488 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 2: you're perjuring yourself for that, that's pretty serious. I mean 489 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 2: if if you gave someone a pass on you know, 490 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: going you know, sixty five and a fifty five, and 491 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 2: you were asked about it and you said no, I 492 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 2: don't remember, and it turned out it was your cousin, well, 493 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 2: that theoretically would be perjury as well, but it was 494 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 2: perjury on a question. There was a hell of a 495 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 2: lot less important on whether or not this recruit was 496 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 2: treated fairly. 497 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 6: That's just a sure. Dan's last question for you as 498 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 6: an experienced talk show host and television reporter and attorney, 499 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 6: I think they're being over to charged. 500 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 2: I think the charge is right on the money, based 501 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 2: upon the facts and knowing David Meyer. 502 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 6: Uh. 503 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 2: I I was not involved in the investigation. I have 504 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 2: complete confidence in David Meyer. 505 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 6: So you don't think he's overcharging? 506 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 2: No, absolutely not, absolutely not. I think he hit it 507 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 2: right on the money. Uh. And I would expect no 508 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 2: less of David Meyer. And I've had experience with David 509 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 2: Meyer when he was an ADA on the Salvati case. 510 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 6: Is he going to be in the is he going 511 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 6: to be in the courtroom? Prof? 512 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 2: I believe. I believe that he will have a prosecution 513 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 2: team and he would be the lead prosecutor in the case. 514 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 2: I believe. 515 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 6: All right, Dan, thank you. 516 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 2: Very great questions. As always, Man, you should have been 517 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 2: a talk so host. You want my best findest calls 518 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 2: for many years. 519 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: I think you're too kind, not at all, just accurate. 520 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 2: Thank you, John and Boston John next on Nightsager Right ahead. 521 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, Hello, Dan, Hey John, Dan, let me let me 522 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: ask you two questions. 523 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,160 Speaker 8: Sure, Number one, how does the colonel, you know, the 524 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 8: head of this alligerant outfit known as the State Police, 525 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 8: how does he feel about this situation. 526 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 2: He was not the colonel when this occurred, and he 527 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 2: was brought in after this event, and part of it 528 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:21,320 Speaker 2: is probably his responsibility to pull this organization. 529 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: Back together, or I hope he does. 530 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, so they're thought. And by the way, you know, 531 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 2: like anything else, five or ninety nine percent of the 532 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: State Police officers are out there risking life and limb 533 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 2: every day. For us, this was either a case of 534 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 2: just complete I don't know what the underlying facts are. 535 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,319 Speaker 2: I don't know if they were not in the in 536 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 2: the room when this activity was going on, if they 537 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 2: had drifted away don't I don't know. If it's a 538 00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,640 Speaker 2: case of negligence. I don't know if it was a 539 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 2: case of pushing the recruits. That will be determined at trial, 540 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 2: and that will be determined with witnesses. I don't know that. 541 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 2: And but I think this is a legitimate charge. And 542 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 2: again I think when you paint the entire State Police 543 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 2: with that brush, I forget what the phrase you use was. 544 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 2: I think it's unfair to those who are going out 545 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,040 Speaker 2: and doing a good job. What's your other question? 546 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 1: My other question is have you ever been stopped by 547 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: a state police Yes? 548 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:29,120 Speaker 2: Yes, sir? 549 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: Okay? Were they kind? 550 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 2: Were they very professional? Very professional? Very professional? Okay, very professional, 551 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 2: very polite. And I must tell you that one of 552 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 2: the things I tell my friends is when you get stopped, 553 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 2: pull over into a safe area. Don't stop, you know, 554 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 2: in a travel lane. Don't do anything that's going to 555 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 2: put you the police officer in danger. Slow down, pull 556 00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 2: over if you can, pull off the road into a park, 557 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 2: put your dome light on if it's at night, put 558 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 2: your hands on the steering wheel, and roll the window down, 559 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 2: and and and be polite to the officer. And in 560 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 2: ninety nine percent of those times, the officer, unless you 561 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 2: have a horrific driving record, is probably going to do 562 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: the right thing, which might be simply a warning or 563 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,640 Speaker 2: but but you'll be treated the better you treat the 564 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 2: police officer, generally, the better you'll be treated. I've been 565 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 2: treated worse by city and town officers than by state 566 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 2: police officers. Okay, now that's the truth. 567 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: How about yourself, Well, I guess the only mistake, because 568 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: I was nervous, I got pulled over once, Okay for speeding. Okay, okay, 569 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: five miles I was speeding limit. 570 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 2: All right. Yeah, well that should be a warning. That 571 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 2: should have been a warning, nothing more, nothing less, in 572 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 2: my opinion. 573 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: Okay, Well, by mistake it was a woman state police officer. Woman. Okay, 574 00:36:59,160 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: by mistake. 575 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 2: John. I hate to do this, but I'm flat up 576 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:08,719 Speaker 2: against the news here. Let's let's talk sometime we do 577 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 2: open lines. I would like to talk to you longer 578 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 2: about this because I think there's a there's a much 579 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 2: better conversation we can have than in five seconds. 580 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, thank you, call back, Thanks John. 581 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 2: We'll be back right after the ten o'clock news here 582 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 2: on Nightside.