1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,080 Speaker 1: It's with Dan Ray. 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 2: I'm going easy Boston's News Radio. 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Thank you very much. Al As we head into the 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: nine o'clock hour, I started storying the Globe today which 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: just blew my mind. And that's the story I want 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: to talk about in this hour. There are new security 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: rules set in place at Tewkesbury Hospital. Now, Teuxbury Hospital 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: is not what you call a traditional hospital. Apparently they 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: have patients who are there for purely medical reasons, people 10 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: who you normally associate of going to a hospital, But 11 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: they also treat a greater number, maybe even a greater 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: number of mentally ill patients, some of whom have been 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: accused of crimes. Now, the Comwealth of Massachusetts, in their 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: wisdom and I use that word advisedly, have decided that 15 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: the nurses and the staff at Tewksbury Hospital can no 16 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: longer use a number of items, including pepper gel, which 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: is like a pepper spray, handcuffs or batons, and that 18 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 1: staff we're into a nurses if they find themselves in 19 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 1: a confrontation with what they refer to. I love it 20 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: when they use these words a forensic patient. I have 21 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: no idea what the word forensic in you know, as 22 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: part of co joined with the word patient means these 23 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: are people who are mentally ill and some have criminal 24 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: are there for observation because of criminal crimes. I mean, 25 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: I just think we have Why don't we just use 26 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: words that mean what people understand them to mean. And 27 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: so one person who is very upset about this, to 28 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: his credit, is the state representative who represents this part 29 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: of Tewkesbury. His name is State Representative David Robertson. He's 30 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: a Democrat. So there are some Democrats who I think 31 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 1: are relatively normal people. State Representative. That's high praise coming 32 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: from me. How are you tonight? 33 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 3: I'm well, I'm well as you think, my friend. I 34 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 3: appreciate those gracious words there. 35 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: I know you have a sense of humor. So I'm 36 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: having a little bit of fun with really a sad story, 37 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,839 Speaker 1: and I wish there were more Democrats like you who 38 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: will look at a situation and use a little bit 39 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: of common sense. My understanding is that you probably know 40 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: more about this situation than I do, so I want 41 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: to sit back and listen. I also want my listeners 42 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: to know you represent is it all of Tewkesbury, most 43 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: of Teukesbury? What other communities you represent, because I think 44 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: it's so important when someone like yourself steps out and 45 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: kind of goes against the political correctness of the moment, 46 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: that that regular people know that you are one of 47 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: the good guys. 48 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 3: Well, thank you, I appreciate that. So I covered the 49 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 3: entirety of the town of Wilmington, okay, in about five 50 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 3: percent of the town of Tewksbury. But the way it's 51 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 3: divided up, I take phone calls for the entirety of Tewksbury. 52 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 3: My old predecessor told me that I should always pick 53 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 3: up the phone because he said, you know, it could 54 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 3: be your Grandma Collin in one day. They don't quite 55 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 3: understand one district ends and another begins. So your respond. 56 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: So so one percent, so one hundred percent of Wilmington. 57 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: And you said, how much of Tewkesbury eighty five? 58 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 3: No, sir about Unfortunately, only about sixty percent. It's my hometown. 59 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 3: I love. They only gave me sixty percent to cover there. Okay, 60 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 3: for folk local they know it from the Mexican of 61 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 3: the old friendlies down thirty eight to Wilmington, which includes 62 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 3: where we're going to talk about this evening, Trooksbury Hospital. 63 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: That's the area I represent in Tewkesbury. 64 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: Okay, tell us the history of Tewksbury Hospital. It's it is. 65 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 1: It does have a traditional hospital where people from the 66 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: community go and when they're when they're dealing with situations 67 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: that are a little more serious medically. Is So there 68 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: is that portion of the traditional hospital. But then there's 69 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: some areas where they have people who are dealing with 70 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, mental illness sadly right, and and the hospital 71 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: staff are trying to help those folks, you know, who 72 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: would deal with the circumstances that they find themselves in. 73 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: Sure, So if you'd like, you know, Dan, I'm happy 74 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 3: for you and your listeners to do a little description 75 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 3: of the campus. And then, as you touched upon in 76 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 3: your intro, this concept of a forensic patient, so to 77 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 3: keep it short that you touched on it, well, Tiwksbury 78 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 3: Hospital is a fairly sprawling campus. It's closed over seven 79 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: hundred acres, got over three dozen buildings on there. It 80 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 3: hosts five state agencies over a dozen different subcontractors, and 81 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 3: they cover everything from sobriety and addiction recovery surfaces to 82 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 3: long term care for those that you know, let's say 83 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 3: we're unfortunate victims in an auto accident that lost higher 84 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 3: brain function. But they're critical because this is the hospital 85 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 3: of last resort. The types of patients that were traditionally 86 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 3: and historically treated there were in such dire straits that 87 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 3: there was no private alternative that could be done, and 88 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 3: that was the function of most hospitals, not just like 89 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,799 Speaker 3: this in Massachusetts but across the country until about two thousand, 90 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: around the turn of the millennium, a new concept is 91 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 3: something called the forensic patient emerged. Now I'm not an attorney, 92 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 3: but the chapter law for your listeners, it's really easy 93 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: to remember. It's defined in mass General Law number one 94 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 3: two three, section was fifteen through eighteen, and it outlines 95 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 3: competency to stand trial folks that might plead insanity in 96 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: those definitions, and those are the folks that refer to 97 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 3: as forensic patients. It means they're court involved in some 98 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:09,719 Speaker 3: aspect there with active consideration, awaiting sentence, or under some 99 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 3: sort of treatment in conjunction of for a judicial process. 100 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 3: Now that's been the radical shift in the makeup of 101 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 3: the population. And you know, tonight we're going to spend 102 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 3: all our time mostly speaking about Tewksbury. But this is 103 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 3: something also present stay Out at Wister Recovery Center historically 104 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 3: at TOPP and in a few other places as well. 105 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 3: But it's really that growth and forensic patient population that 106 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 3: we've seen not just within the Commonwealth but across the 107 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 3: country since about two thousand year over year that's really 108 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 3: led to the disproportionate amount of incidents on my local 109 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 3: campus as well as other state facilities. 110 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 1: My understanding is that the Teukesbury that there are about 111 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: six hospitals similar to Tewkesbury Hospital in Massachusetts, and that 112 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: Tewkesbury is the only one now that does have the 113 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: ability to utilize what is like pepper spray or handcuffs 114 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,119 Speaker 1: or batons if they need it, And I assume part 115 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: of that is a realization that they are dealing with 116 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: some tough clients up there, forensic patients whatever, you know. 117 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: It's like the phrase emerging result adults in the maddest decision. 118 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: It's like we's people come up with new terminology, which 119 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 1: is always, of course a lot softer, but a forensic 120 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: patient can be a dangerous person to deal with if 121 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: they are off their meds or if they are just 122 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: really upset. And this incident that goes back to September thirtieth, 123 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 1: there was a patient who really was out of control, 124 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: and people tried as best they could to deal with them. 125 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: In after twenty five minutes, I guess he was hit 126 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: with peppergel, which according to the Globe is an irritant 127 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: using olio resin and capiscum. I'm not exactly to drive 128 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 1: from chili peppers. So they tried to well, I don't 129 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: say chill him out, but they tried to get him 130 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: to cooperate, and they went to a you know, they 131 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: weren't get they weren't hitting him with tasers, but in 132 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: some cases, you know, police officers or staff or nurses, 133 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: they the dealing with the dealing with people who are 134 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: difficult to reason with. Is would be the way I 135 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: would describe it. Am I way off base and totally 136 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: insensitive when I put it like that. 137 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 3: No, I think it's fairly apt. And so it's something 138 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: in which you know, I quick aside this morning. You know, 139 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 3: I was very grateful to my my my local officials, 140 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:45,839 Speaker 3: my police chief, number of select board members, and we 141 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 3: hopped on on a conference call very early emphasize with 142 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 3: some high level folks within DPAH at DMH and everybody 143 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 3: on that call, from my police teeth to my select 144 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 3: board members, to the hospital board members, and you know, 145 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 3: in local politics it is very hard to get fifteen 146 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 3: folks pulling in the same direction. But that was this morning. 147 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 3: We all said, we respect that it's an unfortunate reality 148 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 3: that folks with mental illness challenges may make irrational decisions 149 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 3: that us regular folks just don't quite understand. And it 150 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 3: is a noble mission to try to treat those folks 151 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 3: if we can, and reintegrate them safely into society. But 152 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: I think what we witnessed today was this is a 153 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 3: case of overly noble goals becoming untethered from the reality 154 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 3: that's on the hospital campus at the moment. And that's 155 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 3: what you were touching on there, dan By saying that 156 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 3: we were communicating that where we're not being insensitive to 157 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: these folks. It's a very unfortunate set of circumstances, and 158 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 3: I consider myself very lucky that, you know, I could 159 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 3: have easily been involved in an accident, been struck in 160 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 3: the head, developed some sort of mental illness and wound 161 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 3: up there, you know. But that said, the reality is 162 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 3: that these folks may not be rational through no fault 163 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: of their own, but it still needs to be addressed 164 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 3: the same. Africa was a rational choice because, as you 165 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 3: mentioned this September incident, there was earlier escape attempts throughout 166 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, in twenty twenty four, that the folks 167 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 3: attempting to flee carried some serious charges that they had 168 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 3: through previous involvements with the justice system and. 169 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: All, yeah, yeah, according to The Globe, the article in 170 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: Globe I says it were nearly two dozen people in 171 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four who left the 172 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: grounds of the hospital without permission. The neighbors must have 173 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: been thrilled to see those folks walk in the streets. 174 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 3: Well, you know, you're absolutely right, and they were rightfully 175 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,959 Speaker 3: upset in the community. But you know, as my police 176 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 3: chief on this call pointed out earlier today for twenty 177 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 3: twenty five, right, you just you know, for the listeners, 178 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 3: just pointed out we were having dozens of escape attempts 179 00:10:56,200 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 3: a year. In twenty twenty five, he sided the number 180 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 3: of responses required by the municipal department from Tewksbury had 181 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 3: fallen to about twenty seven, which was a huge decrease 182 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 3: in the right direction. Now, personally, I believe that the 183 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 3: public safety officers on the Tewksbury Hospital campus to be 184 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 3: trained to what the Commonwealth referris to as the post standards, 185 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: or the police officers could be the peace officers standards 186 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 3: and training. It essentially means their fully functional law enforcement officers, 187 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 3: just like you'd find on any city street or college 188 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 3: campus or like facility that the state operates. But that said, 189 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 3: in the meantime, we've implemented this public Safety office and 190 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 3: you know, again, if the risks sound like a broken record. 191 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 3: In twenty twenty five, they managed to take the number 192 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 3: of violent incidents and escape attempts that was numbered in 193 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 3: the dozens in twenty twenty four, and we're able to 194 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 3: bring that down with the proper tools such as peppergel, 195 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 3: but sons and handcuffs to twenty seven. I'm not saying 196 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 3: that number is perfect, but it was a hell of 197 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 3: a swing in the right direction over just one year 198 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:08,959 Speaker 3: of implementation. 199 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely representative. On that note, let me pause here. I 200 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: got to take up commercials and I want to have 201 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: a few more a few more words with you, and 202 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: then I want to take phone calls, particularly people who 203 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: may have a strong feeling on this. If you have 204 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: the time, I'd love to incorporate you into the conversation. 205 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: So just sit tight for a couple of minutes. Let 206 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: me get through this break which I have to take. 207 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: And if you're on the line now stay there. We 208 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: will get to you. And if you're not six one, seven, two, five, 209 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: four ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. 210 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: The state will always roll over communities that do not 211 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: stand up for their own interest. And I think that 212 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: all of you are fortunate to have State Representative David 213 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: Robertson representing Tewkesbury and Wilmington in looking out for the 214 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: interest of the community what at the same time understanding 215 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: that the people who are in there with mental illness 216 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: are not in there by choice, but their decision making 217 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: is probably impacted and can be dangerous. We'll be back 218 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: on night Side and take some more take phone calls 219 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: and more conversation with representative State Representative David Robertson back 220 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: on nightside right after this. 221 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,599 Speaker 2: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z, 222 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 2: Boston's news radio. 223 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:29,679 Speaker 1: We're back with State Representative David Robertson of Tewksbury. Also 224 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,079 Speaker 1: represents uh, well, sixty percent of Tewkesbury, one hundred percent 225 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: of Wilmington. We're talking about these new security rules at 226 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: the Tewksbury Hospital. How my understanding is that these rules 227 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: have come down from the Healthy Administration, the Department of 228 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: Public Health, and I guess, uh there was a CEO 229 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: named well it came down and then the CEO of 230 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: the hospital. The Department of Public Health's debut, the Commissioner 231 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 1: Ted Constant is quoted as saying, it's a difficult balancing act. 232 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: Have we decided the other way against our clinical judgment? 233 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure we would have been criticized. And then the 234 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: CEO of the hospital, woman named Amy Dumont, wrote in 235 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: a this, I guess a decision, every decision we make 236 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: from how we care for our patients, how we design 237 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: our spaces, how we train our staff, should support our 238 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: therapeutic mission. I wonder how much experience some of these 239 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: administrators have had as on the line or staff providers. 240 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: Do you have any idea? 241 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I can't speak to everybody's professional history there, 242 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 3: and I really can't. You know, I know the individuals 243 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 3: through the last years that I've been fighting the EBBS 244 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 3: and flows of this battle with the administration. And you know, 245 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 3: as I previously observed as a staff under my predecessor, 246 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 3: I had watched him do so with the very us 247 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 3: other names that occupy these titles under the Baker administrative years. 248 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 3: But you know, you're you're you're touching upon for those 249 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 3: that might be joining us now here after the commercial 250 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 3: break what we had discussed previous, which is that balance 251 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 3: of their their ideological and and I'm going to give 252 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 3: credit to my my police chief for aptly I think 253 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 3: describing at the ideological I guess goals that they're trying 254 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 3: to strive again, like we said in the first part, 255 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 3: while noble are untutted from the reality there. And that's 256 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 3: particularly attested to by some tremendous friends and allies in 257 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: this fight, the s C, I U and M and A, 258 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 3: which is the Mass Nurses Association members who have stepped 259 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 3: up to raise their voices on this because as folks 260 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 3: actually doing the work functionally within the trenches, they've been 261 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 3: highlighting these issues ongoing free years. And actually I had 262 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 3: to give prept The Mass Nurses Association released a fantastic report. 263 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 3: It encapsulates truly not just a history it does have 264 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 3: a great focus on Tuksbury, but it also touches upon 265 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 3: the other state campuses where some similar to what we're 266 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 3: observing at Twksbury with those problems around forensic patients and 267 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 3: the like, in those challenges around putting popular policy in 268 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 3: place have also emerged. And the history that I'm sorry, 269 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 3: go ahead. 270 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: No, what I'm saying was that that it's it's one 271 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: thing to be on the ground when you're dealing with 272 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: a patient who is out of control and maybe there 273 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: because for whatever reason they engaged in serious physical violence 274 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: and or you know, criminal activity, and now all of 275 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: a sudden, that person is holding a baseball bat and 276 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: you have to, you know, deal with the set of circumstances. 277 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: And if you walk over and you say, see how 278 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: we just taught, don't you put the bat down? I mean, 279 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: they could take a swing at you with something like that, 280 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: and you have to be prepared and all of that. 281 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: I just think that at that point what they should 282 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: do is start to call the administrators from the hospital 283 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: and say, hey, we have a tough situation down here. 284 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: We're just going to lock the door. Why don't you 285 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: come down and deal with it. I don't think those 286 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: administrators would even want to walk into the same room. 287 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: But they somehow can dictate the procedures and the policies 288 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,359 Speaker 1: that should be employed in a situation that is so 289 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: dangerous that they would never want to confront it themselves. 290 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 1: That's the irony to me, is what I'm trying to 291 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: get at. 292 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 3: No, I agree, like you said, they would be negotiating 293 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 3: from behind a microphone, you know, at least one hundred 294 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 3: feet away to make sure and yeah, you know the 295 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 3: example of a baseball bat. But we're in a hospital environment. 296 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 3: There's plenty of sharps, terms of needles, other medical equipment 297 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 3: and devices that the nurses do go through great lengths 298 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 3: to ensure that they're stowed away properly. But these forensicatients 299 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 3: aren't just you know, they're not fair little folks. They're 300 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 3: sometimes patients of large physic and size, and as we 301 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 3: touched upon before, there unpredictable. So you know, you're right 302 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 3: absolutely to say, you know, to believe that we could 303 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 3: calm someone down if a set of circums stances escalated 304 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 3: to the point which they're going to choose violence through words. 305 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 3: Is it certainly is ironic that it seems like the 306 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 3: patient has more rights to their own safety than those 307 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 3: treating them or the hospital administrators would deal with actin. 308 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: And neither one of us is saying that anyone would 309 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 1: have the right to be abusive to a patient under 310 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: those circumstances. But there are people who do things and 311 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: act out very quickly. I watched a video the other 312 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: night of a guy who was on his cell phone 313 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: in a New York subway and a train was pulling 314 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: into the station and a fairly good way to speed, 315 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: and someone came up from behind and for whatever reason 316 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: and tried to push the guy in front of the train, 317 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: and there was no prior problem between them. I mean, 318 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: it's like you just don't know. I think about the 319 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: woman who was stabbed to death on the train down 320 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: in North Carolina a few months ago, who came here 321 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: escaped a war in array in Ukraine and died because 322 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: someone decided they wanted to slit her throat in the 323 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: middle of a train ride. I mean, those are the 324 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: type of people that you end up with in a 325 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: facility like the Tewksbury State Hospital, and they should be 326 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: treated well, and as long as they're un their medications, 327 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: sometimes they're fine. But if they're off their medications. They're 328 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: very dangerous. They are dangerous set of circumstances to deal with. 329 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: Let me do this. What I'd love to do is 330 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 1: hold you through the newscast. I want to get some 331 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: phone calls. I have Ryan Wilkins of the Mass Nursing 332 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,360 Speaker 1: Nurses Association, who I know has called in. I hope 333 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: other nurses maybe are more than welcome to call in. 334 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 1: Doctors and nurses are the I think, extremely special people 335 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: in our society. They are people who we go to 336 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: and others go to when their in need of care. 337 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: At the same time, we should not intentionally take away 338 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: from them the tools that they need to protect themselves 339 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: and maybe to control someone who literally is out of 340 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: their mind at a moment in time. So if you 341 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: could stay with me, Representative Robertson, I would appreciate it. 342 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 1: It's about a three minute newscast. We'll be right back. 343 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: We'll go to phone calls. Fair enough, fair enough, fair enough, Okay, 344 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 1: you get a chance to get a glass of water, 345 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: stretch your legs. Back in about four minutes. Ryan Wilkins 346 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: of the Mass Nursing and Nurses Associations say they will 347 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: get to you first and if anyone else wants to 348 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: weigh in on this, This is something we pay as 349 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: taxpayers for these hospitals to be run. We don't know 350 00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 1: what's going on until something like this happens, and we 351 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: have no right I think as a as a well, 352 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 1: we have no right as a citizenry to watch people 353 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: be put in circumstances in which their wives will be 354 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: in danger, any more than we have a right to 355 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: say to police officers, well we're going to take your 356 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 1: guns away and you'll have to deal with the bad 357 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,360 Speaker 1: people out there. That's not what they signed up for, 358 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 1: and that is not what nurses and doctors have signed 359 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: up for either. So feel free if you're you don't 360 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 1: have to be involved in this directly to express an 361 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: opinion six one seven, two, five four ten thirty six 362 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: one seven nine three one ten thirty. But obviously if 363 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: you are someone who is involved in it directly, we'd 364 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: love to give you an opportunity to say your piece 365 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: here because we just want to wake people up, and 366 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: I want the governor's office, who did a remarkable about 367 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: face on hunting laws in Massachusetts, to maybe consider what's 368 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 1: going on here under these circumstances with difficult. Again, they're 369 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: called forensic patients, but these are people with serious mental 370 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: disorders who are often involved in criminal activity, and they 371 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:09,360 Speaker 1: were involved within the court system, and sometimes they're out 372 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 1: of control. And as if we don't want to be mean, 373 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: we want to be able to keep our nursing population 374 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: and our medical population and the security staff at these 375 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 1: hospitals safe. Coming back on Nightside, It's Nightsides with. 376 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 2: Boston's news radio. 377 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: If you're just joining us, if you read the really 378 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: one of the top stories front page above the globe, 379 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: above the fold. Today, new security rules set at Tewkesbury 380 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: State Hospital, which deals with a lot of people who 381 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: are up there and have serious criminal cases. Many of 382 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: those cases have been caused by mental illness, but they 383 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 1: are people who are difficult to deal with, sometimes difficult 384 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,400 Speaker 1: to control, and the state and their immense wisdom, has 385 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: decided that that nurses and security workers and people in 386 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 1: the medical field are not allowed to use things like 387 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: pepper gel, which is an irritant that does cause it 388 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: comes people, It may upset them, but it basically puts 389 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: them in a situation where the count herding when also 390 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: handcuffs the batons with me A state Representative David Robertson. 391 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: He represents about sixty percent of Tewkesbury, including the property 392 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: on which the hospital is located, and represents one hundred 393 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: percent of the town of Wilmington. We've been talking about this. 394 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: There's a I think from what the representatives said, locally, 395 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: virtually everybody is concerned about these new rules which have 396 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: been promulgated by the Department of Public Health, which of 397 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: course is a state agency. If it's okay with you, Representative, 398 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: I'd like to introduce into the conversation, Ryan Wilkins. It's 399 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: with the Massachusetts Nursing Nurses Association. Ryan Wilkins, Welcome to Nightside. 400 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 4: How are you, sir, Hi Dan, good evening. Thanks for 401 00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 4: having me. 402 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: You're very welcome. Thank you for calling in, say had 403 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: a Representative Robertson love to hear the perspective. I assume 404 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: you're calling as a representative of the nurses of the 405 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: Massachusetts Nurse Association. 406 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 4: I am Dan. First, I'd like to say thank you 407 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 4: to Representative Robertson. You know, thank you for standing up 408 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 4: for our nurses and the Tewkesbury community, the Tewksbury Hospital 409 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 4: community overall. We really truly appreciate you. Thanks I have 410 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 4: been I have been a registered nurse at Tewksbury Hospital 411 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 4: for the past twelve years. I am chairman of the 412 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 4: mass Nurse Association bargaining unit that represents the DPH nurses 413 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 4: and healthcare providers. I'm also on the executive board of 414 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 4: the Massachusetts Nurses Association. 415 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: So thank you for your credentials. You're perfect perfectly in 416 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: order from your perspective and for the perspective of the 417 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: Nurses Association. I guess I'll ask a tough question, why 418 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: should Tewkesbury State Hospital be treated any differently than some 419 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: of the other state hospitals If I'm wrong. At least 420 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,040 Speaker 1: the global articles seemed to suggest that Tewksbury was the 421 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: last hospital that had been allowed to use things like 422 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: handcuffs and some form of preface spray or batons. So 423 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: it is Tewksbury sort of a special place in terms 424 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 1: of the clientele you're dealing with. 425 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 4: So, Dan, Tewksbury Hospital is unique, and you know, just 426 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 4: to go back when we speak about these different types 427 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 4: of defensive and control type tools, these are not new 428 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 4: to healthcare. There are numerous hospitals here in the Northeast 429 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 4: part of the state that their security forces are already 430 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 4: and have been utilizing these tools. Okay, Tewksbury Hospital and 431 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 4: other public mental health hospitals are a critical part of 432 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 4: this state's healthcare infrastructure and perform a critical function they 433 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 4: need to remain safe. These tools are critical to the 434 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 4: safety to the security team to have them be amply 435 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 4: prepared to help respond and support us in these behavioral 436 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 4: emergencies when we need assistance. 437 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: So why then, is the focus on Tewkesbury again. I'm 438 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: trying to find the part of the Globe that I 439 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: read this story in today, and I've had trouble locating it. 440 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: But the impression I got was that of all the 441 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: state hospitals, Teuxbury was the last. You're telling me quite 442 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 1: the contrary. Maybe I misread the Globe story. 443 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 4: So Tewkesbury Hospital mate. Tewksbury Hospital maybe one of the 444 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 4: last state facilities that's operated under the Commonwealth of Massachusetts 445 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 4: to have these tools. But make no mistake, community hospitals 446 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 4: around Massachusetts their security. 447 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: For USS are Okay, I missed that distinction. I think 448 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: Representative Robertson wants to add something. 449 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 3: Go ahead, Representative, Oh yes, sir, I just wanted to 450 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 3: add context for what you, gentlemen, we're discussing that. Indeed, 451 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 3: Tewksbury is the last remaining one, actually, I think, and 452 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 3: we've been working to confirm. But the impetus seems to 453 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 3: be an attempt by DMH and DPH to standardize all campuses. 454 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 3: But as Ryan just so eloquantly stated, we serve such 455 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 3: a variety of folks there at the campus, and the 456 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 3: devil's in the details. It's about the forensic patients that 457 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 3: Tukesbury serves. That again Ryan was describing when he first 458 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 3: joined us. But Tewksbury indeed is the last hospital to 459 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 3: carry this. But while DPH and DMAH will highlight that, 460 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 3: I think the other campuses should have Tewksbury's tool sets 461 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 3: made available to them rather than having the toolst eliminated 462 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 3: at Tukesbury. So they got it back. 463 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: Okay, I agree with you, But my question to both 464 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 1: of you is, why is this seemingly such a push 465 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: from the administration. And I'm not looking to pitch you 466 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: against the administration, but it sounds to me like this 467 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: is coming down from the Apartment of Public Health, which 468 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: is an agency of the administration. Why is there such 469 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: a push to UH to basically apply the handcuffs not 470 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: to the forensically mentally ill patience, but to apply the 471 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: handcuffs to the nursing community that is trying to help 472 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: these folks. And UH and and and the staff, the 473 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 1: security staff. It sounds to me like they're basically trying 474 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: to handcuff those who were there trying to help these people. 475 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: To me, it's crazy, it's crazy. I don't understand that. 476 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: If either of you can can help me understand that, 477 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: because I think most of my audience at this point 478 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: is also shaking their heads. 479 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 4: Representative, do you want to try this first? And do you 480 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 4: want me to take take it? 481 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 3: I would say, I'm happy to give a little context 482 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 3: of I'm sorry, because Ryan, as a professional, I really 483 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 3: want your audience to hear from him as against someone 484 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 3: in the trenches. But I'm sorry, Dan, I'm gonna confuse 485 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 3: your audience a little bit more because, as as we 486 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 3: talked about before the commercial break, we managed to take 487 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 3: a trend of rising incidents of violence and escape attempts 488 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 3: on campus and at least start moving the needle in 489 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 3: the right direction. I have to give her self credit. 490 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 3: She sat with the state's delegation and heard from locals 491 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 3: and was very involved. And I'm the safe she put 492 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 3: her money where her mouth is. In the fiscal year 493 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 3: twenty five budget gave a large line item increase with 494 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 3: the direct orders to address the situation. 495 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: And you're referring to the governor here, I assume. 496 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 3: Yes, sir, the governor herself. 497 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: So then why if the governor was responsive in that area, 498 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: why is the Department of Public Health and the people 499 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: who are the head are heading the problem of public 500 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: health implementing institution these restrictions, which under the circumstances are 501 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: really not, in my opinion, justified. And I suspect Ryan 502 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: would agree with me. Ryan, let me get you in 503 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: here on that issue, Dan. 504 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 4: I agree with you one hundred. Look, instead of doing 505 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 4: the real work that could finally provide a stay for 506 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 4: environment for all of us, the state, once again, without 507 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 4: asking for or inviting frontline staff involvement, announce this policy 508 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 4: change that removed the tools security staff had at their 509 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 4: disposal to address violent confrontations against staff and patients. Whether 510 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 4: you agree with the specific tools or you don't, the 511 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 4: result of this process has been to remove the ability 512 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 4: for the security team on staff to provide that timely 513 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 4: support needed when staff and patients are being threatened with 514 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 4: harm or worse. Look, remember, these facilities were designed and 515 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,719 Speaker 4: staffed to care for patients with chronic mental health conditions. 516 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 4: But over the recent years, this and other state facilities 517 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 4: have been admitting criminally involved patients, many with oppositional behavioral 518 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 4: conditions that make them prone to extreme violence. Contrary to 519 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 4: what this date wants you to believe and what they claim, 520 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 4: this is not a small percentage of patients. Just this 521 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 4: past month or so roughly had one hundred and sixty 522 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 4: patients at the facility on the DMH side of the building. 523 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 4: Of that number of patients one hundred and twelve, that's 524 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 4: nearly seventy percent for forensic patients. They're there because they're 525 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 4: in part because the correction system can't handle them, so 526 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 4: they're being dumped into the traditional mental health facilities. It's 527 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 4: an absolute outrage. 528 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: My understanding is that in the article somewhere in the 529 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: Globe today it said that when there is a that 530 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: once these tools are taken away from the staff, the 531 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: security staff, as well as the nurses and the professionals, 532 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,480 Speaker 1: the medical professionals at the hospital to include the nurses. 533 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: Then the only choice you will have in an extreme 534 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: situation is to summon the local police department to deal 535 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 1: with the problem. And you have no idea how quickly 536 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: the police department will be able to get there, and 537 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 1: you have no idea about knowing what the police might 538 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 1: be dealing with at any given time when the call 539 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: is made. 540 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 4: Dan, You're absolutely right. Look, Tewkesbury Police is an incredible 541 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 4: resource in support to our Tewkesbury Hospital community. They are 542 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,959 Speaker 4: there on a daily basis, The Tewkesbury Fire Department, Ambulance Service, 543 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,959 Speaker 4: all of the community resources that come and respond to 544 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,719 Speaker 4: us are absolutely amazing. But the reality is Tewkesbury Police 545 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,440 Speaker 4: is not situated within our building. Our campus security team is. 546 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 4: They are the first responders. They respond to these issues 547 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 4: within seconds. That's our frontline, first line of support. 548 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: Okay, gentlemen, I got to take one more break here, Ryan, 549 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: Why don't you stay right there and representative. When we 550 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: get back, I'm going to ask you where do we 551 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: go from here? Well, where do you folks go from here? 552 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: And we certainly will be more than happy to follow 553 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: this story. I hope that this conversation tonight is going 554 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: to create and spark some conversation within the community and 555 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,320 Speaker 1: make them more aware of what's going on. And also 556 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: I hope that the governor, who I think can be 557 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: a reasonable person and in the past has displayed that attitude. 558 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: If you get an opportunity, I want to ask you 559 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: if you think you're going to get an opportunity to 560 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: sit down with her and maybe with some of the 561 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: nurses from the hospital, so she can she can she 562 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: can make a judgment based not upon what bureaucrats are concluding, 563 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 1: but what frontline medical personnel are experiencing. We'll take a break. 564 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: I'll ask that question when we come back to the 565 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: other side. If anyone else wants to join us, feel free. 566 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: Six months seven two, five, four ten thirty six months 567 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: seven nine three one ten thirty. Both of you are 568 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: extraordinarily articulate. You both seem very tuned in to your 569 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: perspective on this, and I really appreciate the tone and 570 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: level of conversation during this hour. We'll be back on 571 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,200 Speaker 1: Night's side with my guests, Ryan Wilkins, the Mass Nurse 572 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: Association and state represented of David Robertson, who represents Wilmington 573 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: and a significant portion of Tewkesbury. 574 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 2: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio. 575 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: We're talking about new security rules said at Tewksbury State Hospital, 576 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: which is a hospital that basically serves a lot of 577 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: patients who are mentally ill, many of whom have been 578 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 1: involved in the criminal justice system. And we have gone 579 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:36,000 Speaker 1: through all the concerns with US State Representative David Robertson, 580 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: who represents him all of Wilmington and sixty percent of 581 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 1: Tewkesbury on the phone. As Ryan Wilkins, who is with 582 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: the Massachusetts Nurse Nurses Association representative. Let me ask you, 583 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: how difficult is it in this situation for you to 584 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 1: get the attention of the governor of the Governor's office 585 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: and see if she will inter or her office will 586 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: intercede with the Department of Public Health, which is an 587 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,240 Speaker 1: agency of the Governor's office. What's the game plan from here? 588 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: And will you need can you involve people like Ryan 589 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: Wilkins and others from the Nurses Association who were actually 590 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 1: a frontline medical personnel. 591 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 3: Well, I'm proud to say that, I mean Ryan can 592 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 3: speak to it as well. As I mentioned earlier in 593 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,040 Speaker 3: our interview here, mass Nurses has been advocating for attention 594 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 3: to be brought to this campus for years. What occurred yesterday, 595 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 3: this current uprising. I give the Governor's office credit. They 596 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 3: were able to respond and start talking to us as 597 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 3: you know, right this morning, after making the decision yesterday, 598 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 3: even though they should have included the town in the 599 00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:51,799 Speaker 3: frontline lurkers before the decision was made. So they've been responsive. 600 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 3: And again, as I was touching on Pond before, this 601 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 3: is an especially perplexing development given that in October of 602 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 3: twenty four we were sitting there working directly with her 603 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 3: and her staff. And again I want to reiterate she 604 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 3: was talking some specifics, but where do we go from here? 605 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,280 Speaker 3: We continue putting pressure on asking her to direct those 606 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,760 Speaker 3: that are representing the opinion decisions to be the decision 607 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 3: making around these at DMAH and DPH and we get 608 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 3: a little reality there from from what the people like 609 00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 3: Ryan or my friend Mary Ellen, or other folks that 610 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 3: work on the campus encounter every day. You know, these 611 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,120 Speaker 3: these folks, I really want to applaud mister Wilkins, you know, 612 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 3: for speaking up, because so many folks there are worried 613 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 3: that if they speak up about what the reality is 614 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 3: they'll they'll be branded as not going along with the 615 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 3: mission or not trying to meet the goals and then 616 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 3: put on a little bit of a guilt trip. And 617 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 3: that is absolutely not the way that we should be 618 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 3: treating those frontline employees. They should have their voices heard. 619 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,480 Speaker 3: And you know, again I want to say Ryan will 620 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 3: recognize the names. Meg Collins, for example, has been a 621 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 3: tremendous advocate higher up within the Mass Nurses Association. Again, 622 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 3: they wrote this terrific report really encapsulating the entire story 623 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 3: of not just Tewkesbury, but the systemic failures across the 624 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,839 Speaker 3: board at all these properties is within the Commonwealth. So again, 625 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 3: where do we go from here? Continue pressure on the 626 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 3: governor and you know, I'd like to be to give 627 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,680 Speaker 3: Ryan some more opportunity to comment and all. But there's 628 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:33,360 Speaker 3: a few legislative ideas floating out there as well, and 629 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 3: I'm happy to touch on if you find that interesting 630 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 3: topic to do. 631 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: So, yeah, we're getting we're getting a little tight here 632 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,640 Speaker 1: on time. Ryan, I assume you'd love an opportunity to 633 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: have a session with the governor. 634 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 4: I absolutely would, And you know, Dan, I know what 635 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,520 Speaker 4: crushed on time. I'd like to tighten up a couple 636 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:53,320 Speaker 4: of things here. First, representatives, thank you for your kind words. 637 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 4: Where do we go from here? Dan Well, the issue 638 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 4: of workplace violence against staff and patients is a long 639 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 4: standing issue been raised by the m and A on 640 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 4: multiple occasions on both the local and state level. This 641 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 4: is a system's issue, and this is one where the 642 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 4: state needs to work with us and other employee unions 643 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,480 Speaker 4: to address this these issues before yet another staff or 644 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 4: a patient is harmed or worse. The m and A 645 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 4: is ready to work with any and all parties in 646 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 4: pursuit of making this hospital and other public hospitals a 647 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 4: safe and therapeutic environment. But we need an appropriate infrastructure 648 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 4: to support the client base that we're serving while also 649 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 4: maintaining a workplace that remains safe. Bok. This policy has 650 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 4: left staff at the hospital feeling abandoned and victimized by 651 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 4: a system that refuses to listen to or protect them 652 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 4: in their patients. We have staff left without any means 653 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 4: of timely support to protect themselves. Lastly, Dan, if I 654 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 4: can add one. 655 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: Thing, got to be quick for me, Ryan, got to 656 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: be quick. 657 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 4: Typically, labor unions and management have a baseline level of 658 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 4: conflict right in this situation here at Tewkesbury Hospital management, 659 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,399 Speaker 4: internal leadership in this labor union. I'll bring you on 660 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 4: one thing, it's workplace safety. This directive did not come 661 00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 4: down in my opinion from Amy Dumont to CEO. This 662 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,120 Speaker 4: directive is not reflective of the workplace that her and 663 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 4: her team have fostered over the past few years. In 664 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 4: my opinion, without a doubt, these decisions have come down 665 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 4: from the bureau and commissioner level. Representative. If I can 666 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 4: be of any help in the Governor's office next week, 667 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 4: I'm happy to help. Just let me know. 668 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: All right, gentlemen, we'll try to stay on top of 669 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,439 Speaker 1: this as time goes on. I appreciate you taking the time, Ryan, 670 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: I also appreciate you taking the time tonight's state representative 671 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,440 Speaker 1: and do me a favorite representative, keep us posted on it. 672 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: And if the governor does do the right thing and 673 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: decides to have a meeting with you folks and decides 674 00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 1: to give back the tools that these medical professionals need 675 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: to deal with this clientele, we'll give her a credit 676 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: on it as well. Thanks so much, Representative, and thanks, 677 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 1: thank you very much, Ryan, Thank you so muchel. All right, 678 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 1: good night, gentlemen, when we get back, we're going to 679 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: go back to our conversation from yesterday. Last evening, we 680 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: ran out of time at the eleven o'clock News, was 681 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: going to talk about birthright citizenship and really explain it 682 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: so people understand what is at stake. Back on Night's side, 683 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: right after the ten o'clock news