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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBSY Boston's Knee Radio.

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Speaker 2: Right, Dan Hawkins, thank you very much.

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Speaker 3: Today was a very interesting day in a high profile case,

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Speaker 3: criminal case, a murder case here in Massachusetts. It is

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Speaker 3: a case that goes back to twenty and twenty three.

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Speaker 3: It was New Year's Day twenty twenty three when a

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Speaker 3: cohacent man by the name of Brian Walsh allegedly killed

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Speaker 3: and dismembered his wife. Of course, like anything else, he's

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Speaker 3: been in custody since. I don't think there was.

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Speaker 2: Any bail to be given.

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Speaker 3: And today the trial was supposed to start with jury selection,

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Speaker 3: which did proceed jury selection, but to the surprise of

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Speaker 3: just about everybody who covered this case, and certainly to

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Speaker 3: my surprise I did. I'm not covering it, but I'm

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Speaker 3: certainly familiar with it. Walsh entered a guilty plea on

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Speaker 3: two of the three charges. He still faces a murder

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Speaker 3: in the first degree charge, but he pled guilty to

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Speaker 3: the charge of willfully conveying a human body. It's alleged

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Speaker 3: that he had basically dismembered his wife and took her

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Speaker 3: to a number of locations. They never found the body

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Speaker 3: or any evidence of the body, I guess, and also

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Speaker 3: misleading state police investigators. So he has pled guilty to

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Speaker 3: those two chargers. Which I can never remember a case

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Speaker 3: as much of a high profile case as this, which

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Speaker 3: on the day when the trial was supposed to start

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Speaker 3: with the again the jury being impaneled, that in a

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Speaker 3: case like this, where the three charges are really quite related,

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Speaker 3: that the defendant would plead guilty to two of the charges. So,

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Speaker 3: of course, in this case, who am I going to

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Speaker 3: call but my friend Phil Tracy, longtime criminal defense attorney

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Speaker 3: here in Boston. He and I worked a little bit

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Speaker 3: together a long time ago. But Phil has had an

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Speaker 3: outstanding career at the bar as a criminal defense attorney. Phil,

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Speaker 3: you have much more experience than I over the years

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Speaker 3: in incredible court. But have you ever heard of a case.

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Speaker 3: I've heard of plea agreements in advance of a trial,

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Speaker 3: but I've never heard of a case like this where

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Speaker 3: there's a partial plea agreement on the day day the

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Speaker 3: jury and paneling begins. I think it's unprecedented. Show me

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Speaker 3: where I'm wrong.

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Speaker 4: I've been fifty years a lawyer, and I've been involved

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Speaker 4: in probably fifty murder cases, both prosecuting and defending, and

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Speaker 4: I've never seen this. What the question now becomes, why

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Speaker 4: did they do it? Is it a strategy that should work? Uh?

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Speaker 4: You yourself, we talked earlier today. Brought up something that

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Speaker 4: I heard from two other attorneys later in the day

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Speaker 4: that maybe he's trying to the defense is trying to

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Speaker 4: say we had an argument, we struggled, she fell and

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Speaker 4: hit her head, and I panicked that could be a

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Speaker 4: possibility here. That's the first time I heard it was

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Speaker 4: from you, Tom Hoops another respected way. He thinks a

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Speaker 4: diminished capacity insanity fleet, So exactly what what's going to

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Speaker 4: turn out? It was interesting they got nine jurors today. Yes,

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Speaker 4: heard about it, and you know you're watching the television.

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Speaker 4: It's the number one story, better than Trompanepstein.

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Speaker 2: For at least.

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Speaker 4: It's the idea that you know, he's got something up

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Speaker 4: his sleeve or the lawyers as to how to get

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Speaker 4: around what he did. So they can't bring this up

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Speaker 4: the prosecution to the jurors. In other words, you can't

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Speaker 4: say he already pled guilty to these two other crimes.

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Speaker 4: That would be too prejudicial to to to him. It

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Speaker 4: would he wouldn't get a fair trial that way. But

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Speaker 4: on the other hand, if he took the stand, they

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Speaker 4: might be able to say did you go operate with

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Speaker 4: the police, which he'd have to say no.

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Speaker 2: And so well, yeah, that's that's the question.

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Speaker 4: An unprecedented That's one.

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Speaker 2: Of the questions I feel that I had for you.

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Speaker 3: And Okay, if if they're trying to in effect humanize

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Speaker 3: him and convinced the jury, well, this guy was honest

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Speaker 3: enough to admit that he did this and this, that

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Speaker 3: he that he somehow moved the corpse, although he never

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Speaker 3: told them where the corpse was or the pieces of

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Speaker 3: the corpse. Uh, and that he did admit to to

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Speaker 3: interfering with the investigation. However, having been honest about that, Uh,

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Speaker 3: do they put him on the stand and did they

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Speaker 3: have him say.

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Speaker 2: Look, you know we we did. He has to have

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Speaker 2: a story.

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Speaker 3: How do they establish if they without putting him on

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Speaker 3: the stand, any empathy or how do they And you

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Speaker 3: should never put someone in the word, I mean, that's

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Speaker 3: that's a cardinal rule. You never put somebody like this

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Speaker 3: on the witness stand. But how did how do they

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Speaker 3: get that in? If it is a strategy. I I

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Speaker 3: don't understand how they're going to be able to get

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Speaker 3: that in.

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Speaker 4: Again, we have heard you and I have heard, and

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Speaker 4: the public has heard that one of the claims that

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Speaker 4: she was having an affair. This has come out many times.

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Speaker 4: And you know there's another aspect of this too.

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Speaker 3: Before you get off that ways, hold on, that doesn't

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Speaker 3: justify oh on anything. I don't think there's any way

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Speaker 3: that the lawyer is going to be able to bring

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Speaker 3: that up as a motive, because that goes to motive,

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Speaker 3: and that might convince the juror that's why he killed her.

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Speaker 4: That's right, that's absolutely right. But there's something further beyond

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Speaker 4: that which the government has, and that is that he

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Speaker 4: killed her. They'll be able to prove what I believe

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Speaker 4: in the home where there were three two or three children.

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Speaker 4: Now that dehumanizes them if you talk about, yeah, trying

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Speaker 4: to humanize him. That factor alone is very unsettling for

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Speaker 4: anybody listening to the case or anybody sitting as a juror,

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Speaker 4: because you can't get around that. The government's case will

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Speaker 4: be that she was killed in the home, whether dismembered

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Speaker 4: there or dismembered someplace else, and then dropped various dum

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Speaker 4: dumpsters around around the area. So I don't know. I

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Speaker 4: just don't know. But I know one thing, he doesn't

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Speaker 4: present himself as a very sympathetic guy. That wasn't the

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Speaker 4: television they have rolled out. I would say thirty or

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Speaker 4: forty pictures of her seeming and some pictures of her

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Speaker 4: playing with her children seeming to be a very nice

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Speaker 4: looking person and a nice person. Don't know, I don't

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Speaker 4: know what the strategy is, but making him humanizing, making

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Speaker 4: him like a regular person is im possible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, when we get back, I want to I want

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Speaker 3: to raise some of the theories that we talked about today,

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Speaker 3: uh and give you an opportunity to uh uh to

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Speaker 3: point out the flaws in my thoughts here. But I

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Speaker 3: also want to give our listeners an opportunity to call

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Speaker 3: and pose questions to you or to make comments about

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Speaker 3: this case.

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Speaker 2: This is a high profile case.

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Speaker 3: We have a couple of high profile cases coming on uh,

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Speaker 3: the one that Kevin Reddington is defending, on the woman

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Speaker 3: who is alleged to have killed her three children while

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Speaker 3: her husband went out to retrieve a dinner for the family.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to conflate these cases because although geographically

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Speaker 3: they are similar, maybe chronologically they're similar, they're different cases.

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Speaker 3: I want to focus on the Brian Walsh in a

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Speaker 3: w Wash case to and I want to emphasize this

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Speaker 3: is the case about Anna Walsh and and her the

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Speaker 3: murder of Anna Walsh, because we can never forget the

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Speaker 3: name of the person who who was killed here.

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Speaker 2: This is not someone who died. Uh. And again I.

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Speaker 3: Also have to say he deserves the presumption of innocence.

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Speaker 3: There's no question about that.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 3: But we're going to talk about this case. And if

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Speaker 3: you have a question for Phil Tracy, if you want

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Speaker 3: to make an observation, if you want to whether you're

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Speaker 3: a lawyer or not, want to positive theory as to

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Speaker 3: why they did this. I still am having trouble figuring

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Speaker 3: it out. I'm not familiar with the lawyer his lawyer

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Speaker 3: in the case, although I did some research on her

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Speaker 3: today and her name is Kelly. I believe it's pronounced Porchios.

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Speaker 3: She seems to be a former prosecutor and an experienced

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Speaker 3: criminal defense lawyer, so she must have some strategy in

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Speaker 3: play here, and we're going to talk about it. Six

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Speaker 3: one seven four thirty six seven nine experienced criminal defense

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Speaker 3: attorney Phil Tracy, a friend of many years, uh, and

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Speaker 3: someone whose work I respect and whose opinion I respect

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Speaker 3: that I always hate to raise questions with it because

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Speaker 3: he'll always have a good, good, strong experience criminal defense

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Speaker 3: answer for me. But that's my job. I'm going to

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Speaker 3: do it. I hope you join me. Coming back on

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Speaker 3: Nightside right after this.

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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Ray Foston's news radio.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about the beginning of the Anna Wallshs murder case.

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Speaker 3: Her husband, her former husband, Brian Wallash, is charged with

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Speaker 3: her murder, but not only is charged with her murder,

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Speaker 3: but is charged with dismembering. He's pled guilty now to

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Speaker 3: basically taking her body, which had been apparently dismembered, uh,

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Speaker 3: and taking it to a number of locations her corpse.

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Speaker 3: There's no evidence of her corpse, but he has now

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Speaker 3: entered a guilty play that he willfully conveyed a human

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Speaker 3: body to his wife and misled a police investigation. Phil

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Speaker 3: Tracy is my guess, Phil real quickly. There's no murder

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Speaker 3: crime which could be as personal as what we're talking

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Speaker 3: about tonight.

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Speaker 2: This is not.

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Speaker 3: Two strangers arguing over an automobile fender bender and one

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Speaker 3: shoots the other. This isn't even a gangland murder or

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Speaker 3: or a drug deal gone bad. This is a husband

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Speaker 3: and a wife with children. Now this is all part

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Speaker 3: of one event, meaning you know, he's alleged to have

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Speaker 3: killed her, and then he he googled how do you

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Speaker 3: dispose of a body? All of these instructions which I

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Speaker 3: think you know going to come in evidence, Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, and this members takes the body God knows where,

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Speaker 3: and this is it's all part. These are not separate crimes.

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Speaker 3: These these are all part of an incredible crime that

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Speaker 3: that's just beyond imagination. I don't understand the strategy here

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Speaker 3: because if he's not going to get in the witness stand,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what the defense lawyer is. What sort

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Speaker 3: of a case the defense lawyer could put up and

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Speaker 3: yet can't put this guy on the witness stand in

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Speaker 3: all reason, within any reasonable reasonable aspects. Do you understand this?

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 4: Well, let me let me say this. There's something you

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Speaker 4: just mentioned before we broke. The woman who was the

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Speaker 4: attorney who I don't know, uh did most of the

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Speaker 4: handling of the plea behind her, was sitting a lawyer

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Speaker 4: who I thought was the lead lawyer for the defendant,

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Speaker 4: and his name is Larry Tipton. He's been around a

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Speaker 4: long time. I don't know him personally, but he has

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Speaker 4: a good reputation and he can handle big cases. Now,

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Speaker 4: after the plea was over, he then approached and sat

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Speaker 4: beside the woman attorney. And I'm not sure whether he'll

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Speaker 4: be handling the lead role or they'll be sharing it

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Speaker 4: or as as in the Read case, there was a

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Speaker 4: lot of attorneys helping Karen Read, trading off different aspects

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Speaker 4: of the case. So that's a us Let me.

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Speaker 2: Ask you this.

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Speaker 3: I gotta ask a question, Phil hold On, I gotta

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Speaker 3: ask questions. Do you read anything into the fact that

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Speaker 3: this other attorney, who you say is well respected, and

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Speaker 3: I'm not familiar with his work either, Why would he

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Speaker 3: sit away from her?

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Speaker 4: You know, I found that strange. He sat back away

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Speaker 4: from the defendant and the poet gave me her name.

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Speaker 4: I really don't know. I never saw her before, and

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Speaker 4: she handled the ant the back and forth with the

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Speaker 4: judge about different aspects of the plea. He then got up,

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Speaker 4: as they said, now we'll move on to jury selection,

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Speaker 4: and he sat down at the council table. Don't know

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Speaker 4: what the significance of that was. There's another thing too.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes the client in a murder case, this guy is

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Speaker 4: not a what did I say? He's not a babe

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Speaker 4: in the woods. He's already been convicted in federal court

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Speaker 4: of a huge fraud of involving some paintings or something like.

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Speaker 3: That, fraudulent paintings that he claimed were productions of Andy Warhol.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't appear to be the kind of sympathetic defendant.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't look that way. His body language is weird,

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Speaker 4: you know, It's just it's he's a strange guy. Now

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Speaker 4: he could be calling the shots, telling them I want

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Speaker 4: to do it this way. That's a possible.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you if you if you had a client

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Speaker 2: in a murder case who was telling you how he

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Speaker 2: wanted or she wanted you to conduct the trial, how

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Speaker 2: long would you would you continue?

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Speaker 4: As say a lawyer, Well, I mean they they sometimes

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Speaker 4: can speak out and say, you know, why didn't you

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Speaker 4: do this or why didn't you do that?

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Speaker 3: Well that, yeah, a recommendation of question is one thing.

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Speaker 3: But but if someone says to he.

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Speaker 4: Don't do it my way?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because you know you're flying the airplane.

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Speaker 3: As as as a criminal defense lawyer and they're at

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Speaker 3: the passenger seat, and they can make suggestions. But okay,

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Speaker 3: so so let us come back real quick to to

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Speaker 3: what we know has happened. Okay, the plea has been

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Speaker 3: entered on two counts. He'll be sentenced on those do counts.

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Speaker 3: At the end, what they're doing here is they're angling,

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Speaker 3: I assume the best hope they have. They kind of

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Speaker 3: imagine they're going to beat this this case. There's not

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Speaker 3: a there's not going to be an acquittal here in

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Speaker 3: my opinion, So they're looking to get a past murder one,

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Speaker 3: which is life in prison without without parole, and.

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Speaker 2: Murder two or maybe manslaughter.

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Speaker 3: I think that's what they are hoping for, which would

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Speaker 3: be a miraculous win in my opinion for the defense

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Speaker 3: under these circumstances.

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Speaker 4: It certainly would.

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Speaker 3: And you know, uh big and a big difference, we

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Speaker 3: should add a big difference for those who don't understand.

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Speaker 3: Murder one, life in prison without the chance of parole,

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Speaker 3: murder two fifteen years not guaranteed, but of a chance.

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Speaker 4: Right. And of course, if you were a juvenile, were

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Speaker 4: a juvenile when convicted, you Supreme Court has reversed the

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Speaker 4: light for a juvenile.

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Speaker 3: Right, well, this guy wasn't a juveniles. There's no question,

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Speaker 3: no question about that. Go ahead, I interrupted you. You're

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Speaker 3: making a point for that.

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Speaker 4: Tell no. It's a befuddeling turn of events. And as

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Speaker 4: I say, in all my years as an od time lawyer,

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Speaker 4: I haven't seen it. I haven't seen this this play

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Speaker 4: out this way.

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Speaker 2: So I guess it's Phil Tracy.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about a plea that was entered by Brian

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Speaker 3: Walsh today. He's charged accused of the murder of his wife,

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Speaker 3: Anna Walsh on New Year's Morning, twenty twenty three. This

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Speaker 3: is and again just reading very quickly here from the

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Speaker 3: Globe piece today. Prosecutors alleged that after Walsh fifty killed

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Speaker 3: his wife, he made a number of disturbing Google searches

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Speaker 3: on his son's tablet, including quote how to embomb a body,

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Speaker 3: another quote ten ways to dispose of a dead body

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Speaker 3: if you really need to, or another one quote how

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Speaker 3: to stop a body from decomposing? And how long before

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Speaker 3: a body starts to smell? I mean, whether, I mean,

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Speaker 3: we'll take a break if you like to join the

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Speaker 3: conversation and ask Phil a question or even posit.

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Speaker 2: Would you think the defense lawyers are doing here.

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Speaker 3: I think they have a very difficult task in front

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Speaker 3: of them. Maybe they have a strategy. I'm still trying

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Speaker 3: to figure out what that strategy is. And Phil Tracy

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Speaker 3: is trying to do the same. And again, I don't

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Speaker 3: want to diminish by any stretch of the imagination the

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Speaker 3: seriousness of this case. Everything that I've read about Anna

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Speaker 3: Waalsh is that she was a wonderful woman who was

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Speaker 3: very smart, very accomplished. Uh And and there's no justification

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Speaker 3: for what Brian Walsh, who does enjoy the presumption of innocence,

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Speaker 3: is nonetheless alleged to have done, not only in terms

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Speaker 3: of whatever happened in the house, but what happened afterwards.

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Speaker 3: Six one seven, two five four, six one seven ninety Phil,

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Speaker 3: stick with us here. We'll get some phone calls and

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Speaker 3: we'll get this thing rollward. Coming back on nights.

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Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 3: Free of full lines, Phil Tracy. So we'll get to

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Speaker 3: the phone calls and see what people have to say.

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Speaker 3: Your comments or your questions, your questions please direct them

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Speaker 3: to attorney Phil Tracy. UH A friend and periodically a

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Speaker 3: foam a colleague. Back in the day, let's go to

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Speaker 3: Phil as opposed to feel Tracy. Hey, Phil, welcome you're

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Speaker 3: next time.

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Speaker 5: I felt the same way you gentlemen felt this morning

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Speaker 5: when I heard it. But what I heard also, I

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Speaker 5: guess if I was dreaming that the plan is at home.

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Speaker 5: I don't want to get end up getting suited of

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Speaker 5: saying something stupid. But apparently there might be a plan

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Speaker 5: of saying, well, she died of how poising? She died

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Speaker 5: of a suicide. He was so ashamed because she was

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Speaker 5: having an a fish.

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Speaker 4: She chilled herself.

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Speaker 5: He cut a body. But that's why, That's what I'm

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Speaker 5: thinking is going on here. That's what someone else is saying,

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Speaker 5: and I'm just rendering the same point.

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Speaker 2: Well to me, Yeah, Phil, let's get feel Tracy in here.

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Speaker 3: Let me just say that I would hope that if

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Speaker 3: she did die of you know, suicide or of some

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Speaker 3: natural causes. Let's assume she had a heart attack or

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Speaker 3: a stroke. Is that the last thing that a husband

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Speaker 3: would think about was, well, let me slice her up

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Speaker 3: and take.

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Speaker 2: Her to the to the.

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Speaker 5: I'm thinking of you.

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Speaker 2: No, let's get let's get Phil Tracy in here. He

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Speaker 2: has more experience on this than either.

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Speaker 5: One of us.

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Speaker 4: I guess, you know, the way, the only way they

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Speaker 4: could get in that's that there's some alternative to him

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Speaker 4: actually killing her was is to put him on the stand,

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Speaker 4: which I think is extremely risky. But uh, that's the

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Speaker 4: only way you could get that to the jury, that

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Speaker 4: there's an alternative to him to the homicide, an accidental

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Speaker 4: fall or something like that. But then again, why what

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Speaker 4: would any spouse just you know, obviously do what he

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Speaker 4: did to that body? So really I'm stumped by the

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Speaker 4: uh to give it out, give a logical explanation. I

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Speaker 4: just don't know.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well that's I mean, the only thing I think

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Speaker 5: is a kind of a hail Mary pass, so I

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Speaker 5: think might be going on. I don't know, someone what

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Speaker 5: just makes kind of sense that everything else is going

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Speaker 5: on this crazy world. It makes sense, I guess. And

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Speaker 5: that's what else can I do? I mean, most husbands,

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Speaker 5: he was grieving, he was drinking, he was doing driving,

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Speaker 5: he faced in time, he panicked, and he didn't know

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Speaker 5: what to do. So he who knows you all.

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Speaker 2: Right, Phil, appreciate, appreciate you.

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Speaker 5: I'm glad. I'm good to you guys.

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Speaker 2: All right, Thanks Phil, Thanks for listenings. Always have a

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Speaker 2: great night.

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Speaker 3: Let me go next to Carol in Randolph. Carol Good

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Speaker 3: to get a female perspective of this story. How are

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Speaker 3: you tonight?

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Speaker 4: I'm good?

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Speaker 6: How are you?

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Speaker 4: Dan?

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Speaker 2: I mean troubled by this story, that's for sure.

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Speaker 6: I mean this guy was a fraud from the get go,

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Speaker 6: and I do not believe a word he says. I

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Speaker 6: think right now he's just doing whatever he can to

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Speaker 6: get more drama out of it. And poor me. He

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Speaker 6: I mean he went to Bridgewater and they said, no,

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Speaker 6: he's fine. I mean this guy killed her. There's no

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Speaker 6: doubt in my mind. And yeah, make a last grasp.

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Speaker 6: But how is a jury ever gonna say, Oh I

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Speaker 6: chopped her up afterwards. I think he's gonna try and

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Speaker 6: play the okay on the murder charge. Oh, I was

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Speaker 6: so out of my mind distraught. And no, he's a

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Speaker 6: piece of crap and he needs to go down.

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Speaker 3: Well, if if the bookies in London had this up

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Speaker 3: of the board, I would certainly agree with you.

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Speaker 2: But the lawyers must have something in mind. Phil. Is

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Speaker 2: it possible that that there's something that these.

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Speaker 3: Lawyers see that that you, and more importantly you and

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Speaker 3: I are missing.

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Speaker 6: Oh I don't think so. I think he's got money

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Speaker 6: and he's playing it. And I mean his mother was

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Speaker 6: in there the other day looking like, oh, kissing and everything.

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Speaker 6: I mean, people, money, can.

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Speaker 7: You got to give the mother a little bit of

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Speaker 7: a break, Carol, And that I'm sure that you know

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Speaker 7: a lot of parents never been in that situation, never

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Speaker 7: hoping to be in that situation.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure that they are parents who just don't want

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Speaker 2: to believe that their son.

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Speaker 6: No, No, I agree with that, Dan, But I mean

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Speaker 6: I think these people are just playing the leadal system.

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Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, what is he going to go and

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Speaker 6: now he's already admitted to chopping her up, and what's

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Speaker 6: he going to go in front of a jewelry? Like,

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Speaker 6: what is his defense there?

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Speaker 3: I don't think he can get on the witness stand.

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Speaker 3: I don't think Phil thinks he get a witness stand.

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Speaker 3: And Phil explained to Carol again, I'm still troubled that

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Speaker 3: this ongoing it's an ongoing crime. You know, the murder.

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Speaker 2: Obviously occurs, the.

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Speaker 3: Cutting up of the body, disposing of the body, and

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Speaker 3: then misleading the police is all part of one one avenge. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: but you're saying that there's no way the prosecution is

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Speaker 3: going to be able to get any of that in

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Speaker 3: unless he gets on the witness stand.

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Speaker 4: That's right, And Carol had a point there. The mother

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Speaker 4: is on the witness list and now whether she and

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Speaker 4: of course you got to feel bad there's grandchildren involved

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Speaker 4: for her, But I agree, yeah, there was a tough

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Speaker 4: she had a bad attitude towards the deceased. Not defense,

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Speaker 4: but there seemed to be some sort of terrible friction

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Speaker 4: between the mother and the deceased. And I'm sure that

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Speaker 4: it had something to do with the defendant saying, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm not happy, or she's cheating on me or something

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Speaker 4: like that. But she is on the witness list, the mother,

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Speaker 4: So that's interesting why they would work on the witness

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Speaker 4: unless there's something that she could add to his defense

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Speaker 4: or detract from the commonwealth position. So Carol raised a

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Speaker 4: good point. The point is are we wasting money on

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Speaker 4: a case that you know this is not a case

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Speaker 4: at Dan pointed out that you can say, we'll plead

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Speaker 4: to a second degree of amurder. This is not a second

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Speaker 4: degree of America. This is malice of forethive. It's premeditated,

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Speaker 4: and it shows that his infanity defense would have a

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Speaker 4: difficult time in showing that, you know, he was calculating

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Speaker 4: enough to go on Google, to dismember the body, hide

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Speaker 4: the body, all these things, you know, So it's not

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Speaker 4: it's a first degree murdered there ever was.

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Speaker 3: So let me ask you this, Phil just playing Devil's

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Speaker 3: advocate for one second here, and I get Carol's response

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Speaker 3: as well. The Norfolk County District Attorney's Office has just

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Speaker 3: gone through the Karen Reid case and that has been

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Speaker 3: a complete embarrassment, disaster, disaster. Could it be in another

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Speaker 3: high profile case that the DA's office might have said, Gee,

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Speaker 3: if we can't get in the evidence on the dismemberment

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Speaker 3: and on the misleading the police, let's take it. Let's

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Speaker 3: he's fifty two years old or fifty years old, Let's

438
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 3: let's take the second degree murder and go away. They

439
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 3: apparently said, no, we're not gonna we're not gonna bargain,

440
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 3: We're not gonna get off, come off the first degree

441
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 3: murder case. Maybe maybe they they they I mean, if

442
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: it ever came back, uh, you know, on the heels

443
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 3: of the Karen Reid case.

444
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 6: You're you're the attorney there, I mean, filter the attorney

445
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 6: here I'm gonna talks.

446
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: Go ahead. I happen to be an attorney, but he's

447
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: the attorney.

448
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 8: Go ahead, let me.

449
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 6: There's no way he should get the easy way out.

450
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I'm not suggesting that. Let me. Let

451
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 2: me get filed.

452
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 4: Respond to my comment, all right, I'm sorry, I'll stand

453
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 4: down to the Italian No, no, go ahead. Pecutor in

454
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 4: this case is a hop notch prosecutor. His name is

455
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 4: Greg Connor, and he had a very difficult case. Probably

456
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 4: it was before the Karen Reid case, and that was

457
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 4: when a man killed the police officer, took the police

458
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 4: officer's gun and shot an elderly woman sitting on her

459
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 4: porch who had viewed the attack. Now, that case ended

460
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:41,160
Speaker 4: with somebody holding out against a guilty finding. The prosecutor

461
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 4: went back, tried it again and got the guilty for

462
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 4: both of those murders, for the family of that police

463
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 4: officer and for the little lady. You know, it was

464
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 4: hot warming for the public to see that they weren't

465
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 4: given up on it. So I have a lot of

466
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 4: faith in that prosecutor.

467
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, in that particular case of Weymouth, that was a

468
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 3: jury dullification case. You had one person who went there

469
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,800
Speaker 3: who never should have gotten past the void here as

470
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 3: far as I'm concerned, And they could have had videotape

471
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 3: of it and it wouldn't have made a difference.

472
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: Carol, final comment from you, and then I gotta go

473
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: to break.

474
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 6: Ask you guys for prayers for my husband right now.

475
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: Please, what is going on with your husband?

476
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 6: He needed a brain injury. He's in that. There's a

477
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 6: real deepness right now. And yeah, just prayers.

478
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: Well, there's a lot of people who will pray who

479
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 2: listening to this program. What's your husband? What is your

480
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: husband's first name? Carol Jay Jay? Yeah, okay, Well there's

481
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 2: a lot of people who listen to this program every night.

482
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 6: And I I'm sorry. I didn't mean to bring this up,

483
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 6: but yeah.

484
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 3: Carol, cal you know what prayers never heard, never heard?

485
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 6: And okay, thanks, thank you, Dan, thank you, take care.

486
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: Bye, take a really kick quick break here at nightside.

487
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: Coming back if you'd like to try to get in,

488
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: the lines have been very busy. Six one seven, two, five,

489
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 3: four ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one

490
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 3: ten thirty. I got Alex dot Eileen. We're going to

491
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 3: get you folks in for sure, and maybe we'll get

492
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 3: an extra one or two. We'll see what happens. Coming

493
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 3: back on Nightside.

494
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w BZ,

495
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: Boston's news radio.

496
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 3: Okay, let's get everybody in here. We go to Dot

497
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 3: and med for Dot next on Nightside, Go.

498
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 9: Right ahead, Hi, Danna, Phil. I think the mother is

499
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 9: too involved in this too. She is the one that's

500
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 9: funding it because he hasn't got a pot, he doesn't

501
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,479
Speaker 9: have anything. His mother is funding it. She got a

502
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 9: lawyer to spy on this poor young woman, and she

503
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 9: she's up to her ears in this case too.

504
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 3: I don't know if she got a lawyer. I think

505
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 3: you are you referring to that she there was a

506
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 3: private investigator that.

507
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: Was yeah, yeah, that wouldn't necessarily have been a lawyer.

508
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 9: Doed well whatever whatever he was on this girl. I

509
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 9: mean the mother is if you took a look at

510
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 9: her in court, she's not.

511
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: Charged with anything.

512
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 9: Kisses back and forth to this murderer and he better

513
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 9: go for too bad, we don't have the death penalty.

514
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 9: Really too bad.

515
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 3: Dot is one of my more liberal listeners here on

516
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 3: crime and Punishment.

517
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 2: Only kidding. I'm having a little bit of fun. With

518
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: dot with Phil.

519
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 9: But anyway, he has a dreadful case. Those those little

520
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 9: boys now have lost that beautiful mother. It's just awful.

521
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 2: And they've also lost the father of course, cause well.

522
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 9: I mean you who needed him from.

523
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: The no I understand, but I mean these kids now

524
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: are orphans. I mean they literally have neither.

525
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 9: Her mother lives in Europe, so I don't know where

526
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 9: the kids are. I hope they're not with that which

527
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 9: mother is.

528
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: All right, all right, we'll let you go. But of

529
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 3: my favorite call is Phil here on night side, I

530
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 3: lean in Cambridge. I lean you were next on Nightside

531
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 3: with Phil.

532
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 10: Tracy Well, I uh was very much affected by this

533
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 10: case because I had moved to Hall and I was

534
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 10: traveling to Cohasset every day to visit my husband who

535
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 10: was in a nursing home. But and so it's this

536
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 10: whole story worry just freaked me out. And I also

537
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 10: feel especially bad about the three children that were left behind,

538
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 10: and that's not been in the news, and I don't

539
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 10: think anybody knows what happened.

540
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 2: They give them their privacy A lean that's.

541
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 10: Probably yes, yeah, absolutely, But.

542
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 6: That's just.

543
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 10: One of the saddest parts about this case.

544
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: But there's so many sound points about the case.

545
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: I mean, if if the marriage had had dissolved, one

546
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 3: and the two of them just you know, divorced.

547
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: It's legal in Massachusetts.

548
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 3: A lot of people go through it, uh, and people

549
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 3: come out the other side and they're and they're fine.

550
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 10: So I think that's what she was trying to do.

551
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 10: Actually was wasn't it? It sounds like she was.

552
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, no, I don't know.

553
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,760
Speaker 3: No one ever knows what on inside of marriage except

554
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 3: the people inside the marriage. And at some point you

555
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 3: got to look at it and say, hey, this is

556
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,720
Speaker 3: just not working for both of us, and let's uh,

557
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 3: let's shake hands and go in a different direction. But

558
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 3: I mean this that this is Phil sees a lot

559
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 3: of these cases, and but this, this, this one is

560
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 3: so you know, I remember Phil had a major case

561
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 3: they shooting at the ninety nine restaurant and actually got

562
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 3: an acquittal for one of the people who were charged

563
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 3: in the case. Did some great legal work on that

564
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: for that case for a young man who yeah, no,

565
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 3: I know, truly truly not guilty. But as we learned

566
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,360
Speaker 3: at different times, sometimes the guilty are convicted in in

567
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 3: incorrectly in this country, and sometimes they're in they're convicted intentionally.

568
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 3: But you you put this man back on the road

569
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 3: of life, and I hope that he's done well, and

570
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 3: I hope that he's kept in touch with you, because

571
00:35:59,080 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 3: it's amazing that.

572
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 4: On both counts. But the caller Eileen is correct in

573
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 4: saying that the tragedy goes to the nature of the

574
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 4: of the man involves here using his son's tablet to

575
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 4: search for at least to dispose of the bottle is abhorrent,

576
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 4: horrific in my mind. Uh, the children, you know, in

577
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 4: the house when he did.

578
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 3: This, and she's dead at that point, I mean, she's

579
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 3: this is yeah, at that point.

580
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 4: Around trying to figure out how he's gonna chop her up.

581
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 2: That's not right, Eileen.

582
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 3: I got to get one more call in, So thank

583
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 3: you for your compassion and your empathy tonight. I really

584
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 3: do appreciate it. It was an important call.

585
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 2: Thank you.

586
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 10: Thanks thanks to him.

587
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 3: By let me go to Alex and Millis, like, I say,

588
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 3: I got about a minute for you. You've called a

589
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 3: little lap and I'm going to get you and go ahead, Alex.

590
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 8: Hey, Dan Hey, Schoel. I was going to say, as

591
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 8: they say, all the good ones are taken, you know,

592
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 8: but you know how much is is the this trial

593
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 8: and of course the Karen Reid trial costing the taxpayers

594
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 8: or the commonwealth? Which one is more expensive? Do you think, Phil,

595
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 8: I know it's an odd question, but you know, they

596
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 8: brought in.

597
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 4: On the Karen Reid casey experienced counsel. I think his

598
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 4: name was Hank Brennan yep. And I don't really know

599
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 4: him that well, but I think he did the best

600
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: job he could with a very difficult case which was

601
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 4: torpedoed by all sorts of extraneous and collaterations. So you know,

602
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,320
Speaker 4: that case costs a lot for a lot of different reasons.

603
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,959
Speaker 4: That was tried twice, and you know, the jurors had

604
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 4: to be really god and so they had to be

605
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,240
Speaker 4: taken care of and busting it out to keep those

606
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 4: crowds away. Now I'm not sure that this case is

607
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:13,240
Speaker 4: going to draw those crowds, but they when a case

608
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 4: for US crowds, you need police to keep order outside.

609
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 4: That costs money. So that that read both read cases

610
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 4: cost a lot of money.

611
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 2: And this case is never going to get to never

612
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 2: get to that point, Alex. I hate to do this

613
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: year but we're flat out of time.

614
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 3: Usually I give you more time, but the eleven o'clock

615
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 3: news is coming down the track, so I got to

616
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 3: let you go.

617
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,920
Speaker 2: Thank you much to the on the line who are

618
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: not there. We're going to go to a.

619
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 3: Different issue next hour. If you want to stay on,

620
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 3: you can. If not, I got to get you to

621
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,120
Speaker 3: call a little earlier. Phil Tracy is always thanks for

622
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 3: your insight. We'll follow this case and we'll have you

623
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 3: back periodically.

624
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: I don't think this was going to be a long trial.

625
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 4: They got a lot of jurors today. That was an

626
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 4: impressive thing to get that many jurors.

627
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: Yep.

628
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 3: Then they're halfway home. Nine of sixteen. Phil Tracy, thank

629
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: you much. I'm sure you're up early tomorrow morning. Thanks

630
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 3: for staying up late. Thanks pro have a great nime.

631
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 3: We get back, we're going to talk about stress and

632
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 3: how you can de stress. I think it's going to

633
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 3: be an interesting hour back on night Side after the

634
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 3: eleven