WEBVTT - 3-23-26 Sloan with Kerry Lutz

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<v Speaker 1>You want to be an American?

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<v Speaker 2>Want to here, seven hundred dollars you parked illegal?

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<v Speaker 1>You pay? And guess what just got rob.

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<v Speaker 2>We have a parking scam going on in America right now.

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<v Speaker 2>On that is Attorney Carry Lutz, who's investigator also wrote

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<v Speaker 2>a book about it.

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<v Speaker 1>Carry, how are you doing great? And appreciate you helping

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<v Speaker 1>to get the word out on this. It is a

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<v Speaker 1>multi billion dollar scam that they soak us for five,

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<v Speaker 1>ten fifty dollars at a time. You don't even realize

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<v Speaker 1>that you're being taken. Many of the signs throughout the country,

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<v Speaker 1>signs that say scam here to pay aren't legal. They

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<v Speaker 1>aren't legal. They can't be writing tickets based on these signs.

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<v Speaker 1>Signs in America street signs are strictly governed by the MUTCD,

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<v Speaker 1>the law that you have been living by your whole life.

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<v Speaker 1>You never even heard about it. It's the manual on

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<v Speaker 1>uniform and emphasize uniform traffic control devices. Just substitute signs

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<v Speaker 1>for traffic control devices. A sign is a traffic control

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<v Speaker 1>device if and only if it conforms to federal standards.

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<v Speaker 1>Every state has adopted this law and they can't write

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<v Speaker 1>a ticket yet. They do every single day of the week.

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<v Speaker 1>If the sign doesn't conform, and you all know the

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<v Speaker 1>signs you've seen that.

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<v Speaker 2>You just assume because say they have QR codes on them. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>so carry out illegal As far as Cincinnati goes, we

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<v Speaker 2>know cities across the country they've they've kind of privatized

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<v Speaker 2>parking enforcement to tech companies basically, and you mentioned the

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<v Speaker 2>signage clear sign is lawful noticeers app based contractors, but

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<v Speaker 2>they also harvest your data. There's the penalty systemic will

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<v Speaker 2>confuse rather than form, So it's kind of like this

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<v Speaker 2>constitutional grazon. Now, I will say that Cincinnati has not

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<v Speaker 2>yet fully outsourced our parking enforcement the way places like

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<v Speaker 2>well Chicago or Pittsburgh have. So we hit the cubs

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<v Speaker 2>and we hit the bucks.

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<v Speaker 1>So there you go.

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<v Speaker 2>Is run by the Parking Division of Cincinnati. Now they

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<v Speaker 2>push the pay by Phone app, but that's a private

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<v Speaker 2>third party platform that's operating a bunch of cities. And

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<v Speaker 2>they also have the Sinsey Easy Park app for ebeit payment,

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<v Speaker 2>which I use. But drivers he are still interact with

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<v Speaker 2>private apps to pay meters. It's not as bad as

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<v Speaker 2>other cities, but it feels like a slippery slop like

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<v Speaker 2>it might be heading that.

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<v Speaker 1>Way, it's getting there. When a city adopts an app,

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<v Speaker 1>they find that their revenues from parking, both fees and

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<v Speaker 1>violations go up forty to one hundred and sixty percent

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<v Speaker 1>just from the app. And one other thing about the app.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, and I know there are millions of miners

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<v Speaker 1>driving the nation's highways. They get their licenses, some as

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<v Speaker 1>early as fifteen. I think in a least of fourteen

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<v Speaker 1>and up to seventeen. You're a minor. You can't enter

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<v Speaker 1>into contracts. That's why a bank will not loan a

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<v Speaker 1>child money. And uh, the when you actually download the

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<v Speaker 1>app and click I accept, you are saying I waive

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<v Speaker 1>my right to trial by jury, I wave my right

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<v Speaker 1>to enter into a class action. I consent to have

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<v Speaker 1>my data shared with God knows how many different partners

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<v Speaker 1>that these apps are. I mean, it's a question of

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<v Speaker 1>who don't they share your data with park Mobile. You

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<v Speaker 1>can sent to have your data stored in foreign countries.

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<v Speaker 1>And for miners, they're getting the geolocation, the exact location

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<v Speaker 1>of a miner when they pay for the parking. And

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<v Speaker 1>this is is just unconscionable. It's unacceptable. They endanger miners potentially,

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<v Speaker 1>but they shouldn't be entering into contract and many states

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<v Speaker 1>are passing laws requiring parental consent before the miner is

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<v Speaker 1>allowed to even utilize an app or a game on

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<v Speaker 1>the platform. I've written takedown notices to Google App Store

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<v Speaker 1>and Apple App Store saying this thing is rated for

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<v Speaker 1>four years and up, which means anybody can use it,

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<v Speaker 1>and yet you're you're allowing miners to consent to sharing data.

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<v Speaker 1>It's illegal, out and out. I've also sent complaints to

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<v Speaker 1>the FTC, the Florida Attorney General, the Texas Attorney General,

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<v Speaker 1>a number of others, the SEC because they're issuing bonds

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<v Speaker 1>backed by parking revenues that are illegally illegal revenue streams.

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<v Speaker 2>So when you said the signs themselves are are legal,

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<v Speaker 2>like the QR code on the signs? First of all,

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<v Speaker 2>are those ones that are on public streets. What about

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<v Speaker 2>parking lots or city owned parking lots and you mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>they can't write a citation for that.

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<v Speaker 1>Why isn't okay? So when you have a city owned

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<v Speaker 1>lot or a private parking facility, different rules apply. But

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<v Speaker 1>even the city owned lot really needs to comply to

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<v Speaker 1>some extent with the federal guidelines, but on street parking

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<v Speaker 1>that's what we're talking about here. But if a parking

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<v Speaker 1>lot connects to a street and part of it is

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<v Speaker 1>a private road, effectively, then the standards apply. The point

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<v Speaker 1>is they should be using those standards for any government

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<v Speaker 1>owned parking facilities anywhere. I mean, for instance, the sign

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<v Speaker 1>is supposed to be seven feet high. I wish I

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<v Speaker 1>had a dollar for every sign that was six and

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<v Speaker 1>a half or five feet high. It's supposed to face

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<v Speaker 1>oncoming traffic. How many signs have you seen that are

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<v Speaker 1>mounted parallel to the street. Unacceptable because the whole point

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<v Speaker 1>of it is uniformity, so that if you're in Alaska

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<v Speaker 1>or you're in Key West, you can get on the highway,

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<v Speaker 1>you can see a sign. You don't have to think

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<v Speaker 1>about it, you know exactly what it means. Also to

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<v Speaker 1>stop somebody from say Portlandia or Seattle, they decide that

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<v Speaker 1>they don't like the system and they want stop signs

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<v Speaker 1>to be green and instead of red, and they want

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<v Speaker 1>people to stop on green lights and go on red lights.

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<v Speaker 2>Does that technical evy to gate the law? The enforcement law?

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, because if the sign's defective, that is your due process,

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<v Speaker 1>your notice of the law. You can't be expected to

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<v Speaker 1>know a law if you haven't gotten notice to obey

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<v Speaker 1>a law. And so in anything that comes from that,

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<v Speaker 1>if the sign is illegal, got the tickets, they're llegal,

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<v Speaker 1>all right.

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<v Speaker 2>Cincinnati uses we have the Cincinnati Easy Park app. But

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<v Speaker 2>also there's pay by Phone, which is a third party

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<v Speaker 2>app and it's in well over a thousand cities. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>who owns the data collected when a Cincinnati driver or

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<v Speaker 2>a suburban driver, out of time driver goes in parks

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<v Speaker 2>in Cincinnati use that app?

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<v Speaker 1>What can I do with it? That's a great question. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>really effectively, this is a big tech solution for a

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<v Speaker 1>simple problem. So pretty much the app owns the data.

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<v Speaker 1>This city might be able to obtain the data or

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<v Speaker 1>certain portions of it, but the app owns the data.

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<v Speaker 1>They own your data. And look in the we remember Obamacare.

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<v Speaker 1>They said, if you don't get health insurance, then we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to find you. And the Supreme Court said that's okay,

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<v Speaker 1>because you do have a choice. But for instance, in

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<v Speaker 1>the Town upon Beach, the President's home away from DC,

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<v Speaker 1>the winter White House in that town, they have done

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<v Speaker 1>away with all other forms of payment. So in other words,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to park in Palm Beach, you have

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<v Speaker 1>to use the app, and that therefore they're forcing you

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<v Speaker 1>into a private contract. And that's what all of them

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<v Speaker 1>are doing. They all want you to use the app

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<v Speaker 1>because they don't want to collect meters, they don't want

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<v Speaker 1>pay stations. They want you to use the app, and

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<v Speaker 1>they force you into a private contract. That's called coerced

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<v Speaker 1>contracting compulsory contracting. And then it's with a third party,

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<v Speaker 1>so you have to pay to pay to park because

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<v Speaker 1>they charge you a convenience fee. I don't know who

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<v Speaker 1>it's convenient for, whether it's for them or for you.

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<v Speaker 1>But look, it's all on live site parkscam dot com.

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<v Speaker 1>The book is there, and I think you know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>been allowed to fester for too long. Originally, parking meters

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<v Speaker 1>served a valid purpose, and that was they didn't want

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<v Speaker 1>people parking in front of merchants all day long.

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<v Speaker 2>They went to squat and there basically get treated like

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<v Speaker 2>a parking lot because they want to They want to

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<v Speaker 2>turn traffic over so people can't spend money. Start sure,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's now it's turned to well, I think I

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<v Speaker 2>think Chicago is a great example they've knew this for

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<v Speaker 2>a long long time, and that's considered by many people

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<v Speaker 2>the disaster. But uh, that is like how it gets

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<v Speaker 2>sold to councils. And you know, we're always looking for money,

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<v Speaker 2>right the city of Cincinnati, we need money. We sold

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<v Speaker 2>our railroad so we could fix the roads here that

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<v Speaker 2>have been ill repaired for twenty plus years. This feels

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<v Speaker 2>like something they go, wow, okay, well can we make

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<v Speaker 2>some money off this thing? Much money, much like Ohio

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<v Speaker 2>did before they passed long these law which which outlawed

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<v Speaker 2>these speed cameras, and so you know, you'd go through

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<v Speaker 2>a Yeah, you get this ticket in the mail. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't even know alw was driving the car, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we're paying these exorbitant fees and you couldn't fight it

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<v Speaker 2>because there's some odd of state po box and that

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<v Speaker 2>got struck down in Ohio smartly enough. This sounds like

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<v Speaker 2>it's like the next incarnation of that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm hoping it will be. I've sued the six municipalities.

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<v Speaker 1>I sued three parking apps in the US District Court

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<v Speaker 1>in South Florida, and they're going to have to account

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<v Speaker 1>for it. I've also put in some complaints to the

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<v Speaker 1>Florida Department of Transportation, they've been very upset about street

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<v Speaker 1>art that it's not a traffic control device, it's illegal,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's issued an opinion said all illegal traffic control

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<v Speaker 1>devices need to be immediately removed because they're a danger

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<v Speaker 1>to the road. And yet these parking signs are abundant

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<v Speaker 1>and the towns the cities view them as free money.

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<v Speaker 1>But in the end they really injure merchants. Downtowns were

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<v Speaker 1>ruined by parking, and that's why people started going to malls.

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<v Speaker 1>And the more they this is just an extra active system.

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<v Speaker 1>They provide you no value, all right, no value whatsoever

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<v Speaker 1>for parking. It's we own the curves, right, the public

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<v Speaker 1>owns the streets, so they're charging you. You know, I

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<v Speaker 1>get the fact you need turnover. You don't want somebody

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<v Speaker 1>hogging all the all the retail, right, yeah, yeah, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And private parking that's a private matter between you and

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<v Speaker 1>the owner of the garage. But when they use an app,

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<v Speaker 1>and you can't even park in the facility unless you

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<v Speaker 1>use the app, all right, so you have a choice,

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<v Speaker 1>so I won't park there. But for children getting their

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<v Speaker 1>data shared, and basically the app is a data harvesting tool.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you believe that the app actually creates or has

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<v Speaker 1>the ability to create a behavioral profile of the user.

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<v Speaker 1>They know when you go to work, they know whenever

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<v Speaker 1>you park, and then that picks up patterns and then

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<v Speaker 1>they market to you these app companies. I get monthly

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<v Speaker 1>emails from park Mobile saying join the private park Mobile

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<v Speaker 1>Club and you two can you know? It does the

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<v Speaker 1>thing that every app should do, which is, if you're

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<v Speaker 1>running late, you should have the ability to automatically extend time. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>their private club app does that, and they don't charge

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<v Speaker 1>convenience fees, but they're regular app that the general public

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<v Speaker 1>downloads doesn't automatically spend time. So if they could do

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<v Speaker 1>it for the people paying, why can't they do it

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<v Speaker 1>for the people who are who are just there casually.

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<v Speaker 2>Carry lots at parkscam dot com and not bad yet.

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<v Speaker 2>Here in Cincinnati, we're talking about the pay by phone app.

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<v Speaker 2>Since the easy park is meter payment here in the

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<v Speaker 2>city has that and everything's enforced by the Parking Division BUD.

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<v Speaker 2>The pay by phone is being used in some lots

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<v Speaker 2>in other areas, and it's kind of like Mission Creep,

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<v Speaker 2>and the idea here is you're forced to enter a

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<v Speaker 2>third party contract outside the scope of Cincinnati, much like

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<v Speaker 2>we did with speed cameras, where even if you follow

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<v Speaker 2>the signs and think you parked legally, you can still

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<v Speaker 2>get a ticket. How does that actually happen though it

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<v Speaker 2>sign says I can park here at park, I pay,

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<v Speaker 2>and I still get a ticket. What's going on?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you think the sign says that, and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of tickets are actually thrown out when people take the time,

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<v Speaker 1>when you take the time to actually challenge them and

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<v Speaker 1>the parking enforcement officer what we used to affectionately called

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<v Speaker 1>meter maids. They don't know the law generally any better

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<v Speaker 1>than you do. All they do is scan your plate.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing says violation, create ticket, and that's what they do.

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<v Speaker 1>It's more and more an automated process. They even have

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<v Speaker 1>cameras that clock you when you come in and then

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<v Speaker 1>when you leave, and if you stay two minutes over

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<v Speaker 1>you get a violation. So all of it is just

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<v Speaker 1>it's just gotten to the point where it's just totally extracted.

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<v Speaker 1>It just provides no value and it needs to stop.

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<v Speaker 2>You mentioned that there's like a constancial gray zone that

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<v Speaker 2>no regular or wants to claim jurisdiction at the federal

0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.600
<v Speaker 2>state are here in sincinnat the local level. So how

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<v Speaker 2>does that? What's the gray zone? And who should be

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<v Speaker 2>mine in the store? Why aren't they?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it's every So the NUTCD that's the Bible of

0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.280
<v Speaker 1>the road. It's twelve hundred thick pages of every sign,

0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:46.880
<v Speaker 1>speed limits, of traffic lights, you name it, markings on curbs,

0:14:46.960 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. And in it every state has had to

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<v Speaker 1>adopt it. They passed laws generally, and so basically in Florida,

0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:03.840
<v Speaker 1>the Florida Department of Exportation is responsible to see that

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<v Speaker 1>this thing is carried out and they have the ability

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<v Speaker 1>as well as the Feds, to say, you're not complying

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<v Speaker 1>with the manual, you're losing highway funds. And that's what

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<v Speaker 1>Florida is doing with the street art, getting the cities

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<v Speaker 1>to remove the street art, saying this is a traffic

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<v Speaker 1>control device and it doesn't comply and you're losing your money.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's millions of dollars a city like Fort Lauderdale.

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<v Speaker 1>So every every state has the ability to actually implement

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<v Speaker 1>this and force these cities to comply with the law.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but they're making money off it. That's the whole driver,

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.600
<v Speaker 2>this thing which asks the begs the question. More and

0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.600
<v Speaker 2>more cities each day must be privatizing the parking apps

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<v Speaker 2>and things like that because they're making money.

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<v Speaker 1>Right. Oh, of course, there is an area in a

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<v Speaker 1>city here called Riviera Beach, Singer Island, very plush, and

0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.040
<v Speaker 1>they implemented a parking system in a lot that forever

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<v Speaker 1>had been free, and the prices are outrageous. This is

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<v Speaker 1>what started me off on the whole thing. And they

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<v Speaker 1>figured they could bring in a couple million dollars a year. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>except they privatized the entire system where city employees don't

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<v Speaker 1>even write the tickets. It's the private employees write the

0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:30.320
<v Speaker 1>ticket and they and then the judge, jury and executioner.

0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:37.720
<v Speaker 1>They actually they actually there's an ammunication portal and you

0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 1>basically if you want to challenge the ticket, you go

0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:43.800
<v Speaker 1>to this site and then you have to struggle to

0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:48.920
<v Speaker 1>find the link that says challenge this ticket, and then

0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:52.640
<v Speaker 1>they decide whether or not you have a valid plane,

0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:57.320
<v Speaker 1>and then they want to charge you for an arbitrator

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't agree with their decision.

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<v Speaker 2>But it sounds like it sounds almost exactly like the

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<v Speaker 2>speed camera thing.

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<v Speaker 1>We had here.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a profit center. It's not about public right away

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.160
<v Speaker 2>and enforcement. He's carry Lutz for more on this. It's

0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:14.000
<v Speaker 2>parkscam dot com, America's great parking scam, parkscam dot com,

0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:17.119
<v Speaker 2>carry lots. Thanks for the time, appreciate it anytime.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for having me on.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the interesting part. But again, you know, Cincinnat, we're

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<v Speaker 2>not yet fully outsourcing this. We do have the since

0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:25.639
<v Speaker 2>the easy park app, which I think as far as

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<v Speaker 2>I can tell someone about the city, but they do

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<v Speaker 2>push the pay by phone app, which is a private,

0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.600
<v Speaker 2>third party platform like Carry's talking about here. So it's

0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.960
<v Speaker 2>a mission creep for Warners Forum especially. I mean, you're

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<v Speaker 2>going to a Reds game in Pittsburgh or Chicago or

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:40.560
<v Speaker 2>other cities, they have this there, so just FYI. Scott's

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<v Speaker 2>Loan Show seven hundred