1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Dan Ray on w b Z, Boston's 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: news radio. 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 2: I'm about to present to you an extraordinary presentation. We 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 2: just had Christinudu on, who's great guest and no criticism 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 2: of any other guest. But I am so excited about 6 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: having doctor Michael Gien join us. He wrote a book 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 2: Believing is Seeing, But now that book is being going 8 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: to be presented in a documentary form about an hour 9 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: and twenty minutes. I watched it today and it's a 10 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: life changing experience, and I will explain why I say that. 11 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: I've never said that before, doctor Michael Gian. Welcome to Nightside. 12 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 3: Well, Dan, thank you so much, and boy you, it's 13 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 3: just so grateful to you for your gracious introduction. And 14 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 3: you know, I was thinking just before coming on. You know, 15 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 3: I spent like more than twenty years of my life 16 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,679 Speaker 3: living and working in Boston, and being able to talk 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 3: to you tonight is almost like for me coming home 18 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: to one of my favorite cities in the world. So 19 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 3: thank you for this opportunity to talk to you. I'm 20 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 3: really looking forward to it. 21 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: Well, many of people in our audience is going to 22 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 2: will know the name you taught it at Harvard amongst 23 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: other places. You're a physics instructor there but also an 24 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 2: Emmy Award winning ABC News Science editor, so you had 25 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: a extremely high network profile member. You know, doctor Tim 26 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: Johnson was the medical editor and you were the science editor. 27 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 2: It was a great team at ABC, and we always 28 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: were fighting against WCVB when I was working as a 29 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: reporter WBZ in Boston. But look, I got to cut 30 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: to the chase here, because this story is just an 31 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 2: amazing story. You spent the first part of your career 32 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: for many, many years, and you believe that science answered 33 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 2: all questions about the beginning of our universe, the beginning 34 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: of life, what it's all about. You were a committed atheist. 35 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: I you know, I always think of atheism as someone 36 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: who says, yeah, I know that there's nothing beyond here, 37 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 2: and I think of the agnostics as people who say, 38 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: I'm not sure if there is something, but I'm not sure, 39 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 2: or maybe I don't think so. Did you consider yourself 40 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 2: atheist or agnostic? 41 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a really interesting question. I fell in love 42 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 3: with science in the second grade, and at that point 43 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 3: science became my everything, Dan, and so I wasn't like 44 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 3: a hostile atheist. I was just somebody for whom science 45 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 3: was my god. And so the idea of you know, 46 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: there being a god out there, it just it just 47 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: really wasn't on my radar. 48 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 2: Wasn't on your radar. Okay. By the way, I make 49 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: the distinction between some of my best friends are atheists, 50 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: so my family members are atheists. But I use the 51 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: term which drives a lot of I use the term 52 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: evangelical atheist. And those are the atheists who want to 53 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 2: make sure that there's no remnant of religion of any 54 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 2: sort in the public square. And so it seems like 55 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: an oxymoron, but they are so evangelical in their non 56 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: belief that if they can make sure there's there's no 57 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: reference to Passover or to Christmas or to Easter in 58 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: the public square, then their religion. But but you, as 59 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: you studied science, and there's no way we can reduce 60 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: this this hour and twenty minute documentary, which I believe 61 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: every high school student in America should watch. You all 62 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: of a sudden, the same science that convinced you that 63 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 2: that's it, you know, when we die, we die, and 64 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: that's it, that same science snapped back at you and 65 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 2: led you down a different set of beliefs correct. 66 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 3: Boy, Yeah, that that's like an understatement, Dad, Yeah, because 67 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 3: you know, honestly, when I think back to my life 68 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 3: and you know, I was born in East la and 69 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 3: as I said, I fell maddenly in love with science 70 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 3: in the second grade. A very clear recollection of that. 71 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: And I thought to myself at that time, any you know, 72 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 3: kind of self respecting would be scientists should live by 73 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: certain very strong mottos. And one of my mottos was 74 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 3: seeing is believing that if I can't see something, I'm 75 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 3: not going to believe it. You know, It's the old, 76 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,119 Speaker 3: tried and true skeptics motto. And then the second motto 77 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 3: I lived by was prove it. If you can't prove 78 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 3: something to me, I'm not gonna believe it. And then 79 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 3: the third and final modo that I kind of adopted 80 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 3: for myself at that age was that science to me 81 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: and I was very starry eyed about science. There's no 82 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 3: other word for it. I just felt that science could 83 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 3: answer all the questions that I would ever have in life. 84 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 3: And I was always a curious kid. I kind of 85 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 3: created a commotion in the classrooms by asking so many questions. 86 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:35,679 Speaker 3: And it really wasn't until I got to grad school 87 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: at Cornell, you know where I ended up earning my 88 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: PhD in physics, math and astronomy. That Dan, I discovered 89 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 3: I was dead wrong out every single count and we 90 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 3: can explore those if you want. 91 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 2: Oh, that was like, we're gonna absolutely expect. Now. At Cornell, 92 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 2: you were taught by two professors who had an impact 93 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 2: on your life. Frank Drake, who I do not know 94 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: much of, but certainly Paul san Uh. 95 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 3: You know, Carl Sagan famous. 96 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 2: I apologize, sure, uh you know famous, and also someone 97 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 2: who worked in the media. How did they What was 98 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: it about them that that helped you adjust your focus? 99 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting, you know, Frank and Carl were two 100 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 3: very different people. Carl, Uh, you know, Carl was out 101 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 3: there in the media on the Johnny Carson Show, on 102 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: the Tonight Show, he did the Cosmos series, which was 103 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 3: very very popular, and and Frank on the other hand, 104 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 3: very quiet, soft spoken. I really had a lot of 105 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 3: respect for both of them. I think where they they 106 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 3: kind of influenced me. They influenced me in in many ways. 107 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: To answer your question, Dan, but I think that one 108 00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: of the things when I think back to my days 109 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 3: at Cornell a young man, twenty something young twenty something, 110 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:09,119 Speaker 3: and I took a class in exobiology from Frank and Carl, 111 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 3: and that's the study of extraterrestrial life, because you know, 112 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 3: they founded the whole SETI movement, the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. 113 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: They are the founders. That's why they're so legendary. And honestly, 114 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 3: it was just dumb luck on my part that I 115 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 3: happened to be there, you know, as a student at 116 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: the right time. But I remember our first day of class. 117 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 3: Frank got up in front of us young grad students 118 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 3: and they said, okay, guys, I want you to tell 119 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 3: me what is life? How would you define life? And 120 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 3: that was the beginning of I think one of the 121 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 3: most eye opening courses I ever took, because very quickly 122 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: both Carl and Frank opened our eyes to the fact that, 123 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 3: number one, it's very hard to define life, and it's 124 00:07:54,720 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 3: even harder to explain where life came from. You have 125 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 3: to understand that I have friends chemists and biologists at 126 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 3: prestigious universities right now trying to create life from scratching 127 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 3: a test tube and they just can't do it. So 128 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 3: imagine that, I mean, these brilliant minds working on controlled 129 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 3: conditions where they can control everything, and they still can't 130 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 3: create life from scratch. 131 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 4: And so. 132 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 3: I think it began when I learned that, it began 133 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 3: making me think, well, maybe life wasn't an accident. I mean, 134 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 3: if life is that hard to create from scratch, then 135 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 3: you know, how how did it come about? And so 136 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 3: that was one way in which I think Carl and 137 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 3: Frank influenced me. The other way in which Carl in 138 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 3: particular influenced me is he would all wan and he 139 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: was interviewed by reporters, and he was a secular Jew. 140 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 3: He wasn't I wouldn't know. I wouldn't call him an 141 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 3: outright atheist. He certainly wasn't one of these events jelical 142 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 3: atheists that you're talking about. You know, he was somewhere 143 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,839 Speaker 3: between an agnostic and atheist. But whenever he was interviewed 144 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 3: by reporters, he would speak about the Vedas and I 145 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 3: didn't know what that was. But when I got to 146 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 3: the point in my grad school career where I had 147 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 3: this awakening that all my mottos that I had grown 148 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 3: up with were wrong. Science could not answer all my questions, etc. 149 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 3: I felt like I had to broaden my horizons beyond science, 150 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 3: and that led me into this kind of spiritual journey 151 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 3: and where to begin? And I remember Carl talking about 152 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 3: the Vedas, and I thought, well, that seems like a 153 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 3: reasonable place to start. I admire Carl, He's a smart guy. 154 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 3: If the Vedas means something to him, maybe they'll mean 155 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 3: something to me. And those are the days before Google. 156 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 3: So I went to Olden Library, which is the grad 157 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 3: student library at Cornell, and lo and behold, I discovered 158 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 3: that the Vedas are the sacred literature of the Hindu religion. 159 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 3: And so I just immersed myself in Hinduism. See Dan, 160 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: The thing about me is whenever I commit to something, 161 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 3: I go in with both hands and both feet. I 162 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 3: don't do anything halfway. So when I was in the 163 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 3: second grade and I fell maddening in love with science, 164 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 3: I just gave my whole being to science. And now, 165 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 3: when I was a young twenty something in grad school, 166 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 3: disillusioned to some degree by my beloved science and now 167 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 3: embarking and striking out on this spiritual journey something I'd 168 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 3: never thought about doing before, I had a similar commitment 169 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 3: to it. I immersed myself in it. And then I 170 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 3: started studying Confucianism and Chinese mysticism and Islam and Buddhism 171 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 3: and transcendental meditation, Islam, Judaism, you name it. And I 172 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 3: look back and I credit Carl for starting me on 173 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 3: that journey when he kept talking about these dog on vadas. 174 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 3: You know, I don't know if I hadn't heard, if 175 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 3: I hadn't heard him speak about Veda's that way, or 176 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 3: I hadn't had that kind of respect for him, I wonder, 177 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 3: I wonder what would have happened to me. I wonder 178 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 3: where I would have gone. But here I am talking 179 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 3: to you about. 180 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 2: All we will never know. My guest is doctor Michael Gian. 181 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 2: His new book is Believing is Seeing. But now that 182 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 2: book is in, I'm calling it a documentary, Am I am? 183 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 2: I incorrect when I refer to that. 184 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's not your grandfather's documentary. I call it 185 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 3: just a movie because, as you know, because you've seen it. 186 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 3: I mean, it's not like your typical documentary where you 187 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 3: have talking heads. No, no, you know, it's it's nothing 188 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 3: like yeah, no, no, no, I mean. 189 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,920 Speaker 2: For me, it was life changing experience. Today. I got 190 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: to tell you I read a lot of books. I 191 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 2: see a lot of and I'm not I am not 192 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: overestimating or that or we got to take a break. 193 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 2: But when I come back, I want to talk about it. 194 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 2: I also want to talk about what is in it. 195 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 2: You spent so much time just explaining things which I 196 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: didn't understand, and I want my audience to get a 197 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 2: sense of the level of knowledge that you impart in. 198 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 2: An hour and twenty minutes is beyond my I feel 199 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 2: like I just had a graduate degree, and at the 200 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 2: end of the graduate degree, I learned that there is 201 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 2: something after this trail of tears or whatever we want 202 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: to call it, this life on Earth. We'll take a break. 203 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: My guest is doctor Michael. Believing is seeing. He basically 204 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 2: turns seeing is believing on its head to believing and seeing, 205 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 2: and we're going to get into some of it. I promise. 206 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: I'm not even sure I'm able to answer ask the questions, 207 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: but I know he has the answers. Having watched this documentary, 208 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 2: which by the way, will be available next Wednesday, a 209 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 2: week from tomorrow, and I truly believe every high school 210 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 2: science student, every high school student, should watch this documentary. 211 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 2: It is presented it and it is an amazing work. 212 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: We'll be back on Nightside right after this. If you'd 213 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,439 Speaker 2: like to join the conversation, we'll get to some callers, 214 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: I promise six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty 215 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 2: six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. If you 216 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,559 Speaker 2: believe in God, if you believe there is a God, 217 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 2: you need to see this. If you don't believe there's 218 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: a God, you need to see this as well. That's 219 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 2: the best way I can describe it. Coming back on Nightside. 220 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm Boston's News Radio. 221 00:13:54,200 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 2: With me is doctor Michael dian Uh. He has written 222 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 2: a book, Believing and Seeing, And again I'm using the 223 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 2: word documentary. It's it's just an incredible presentation. You explained. 224 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: For example, let me just try to get people into this, uh, 225 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: into this conversation. You have a website, by the way, 226 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 2: called the Invisible Everywhere dot Com. We're going to talk 227 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 2: about that in a little while. But I thought when 228 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 2: you started off explaining, you know, solar systems make galaxies, 229 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: and galaxies are woven into clusters, and clusters are woven 230 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 2: into superclusters, and superclusters woven into the cosmic web. And 231 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 2: and you you talked about quantum vacuum and big bang theory, 232 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 2: all words and ideas that I had heard, but I 233 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 2: never understood the magnitude of these. I mean, we're yeah. 234 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 2: I once talked to a professor at Boston University and 235 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 2: he asked them about the size of our galaxy, and 236 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: he was very frustrated with me, and he said, he said, well, 237 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 2: think about a piece of sand, one one little piece 238 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 2: of sand on a beach that extends for miles and 239 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 2: miles and miles. And that is when I had this 240 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 2: moment of like, you know, there's much so much out 241 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 2: there that we can't even see that you explain. That's 242 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 2: the first thing that hit me, that there's no end 243 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 2: to it, and it's still going. 244 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And that's that's where I really wanted 245 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 3: to begin the movie, to kind of give everybody a 246 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 3: sense of context. You know. It's like if you go 247 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 3: to a shopping mall, then yeah, and you know the 248 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 3: shopping mall is big, and you don't know where you 249 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 3: are where you're going, and so you look for the map, right, 250 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 3: the old mall map, and the mall map shows you, Okay, 251 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 3: this is where you are, this is where you want 252 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 3: to get to and so that was why I want 253 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 3: to begin a movie. By the way, the movie is 254 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 3: called The Invisible Everywhere and which is which is inspired 255 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 3: by the book Believing the scene, but I want I 256 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 3: wanted the viewer to get a sense before we even 257 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 3: started diving into the subject, before we started exploring the 258 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 3: great you know, invisible unknown, which is what this movie 259 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 3: is all about, right, it's the invisible cosmos beyond us 260 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 3: and the cosmos within us. I wanted them to have 261 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 3: that mall map I wanted. I wanted them to get 262 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 3: a sense of, Hey, yeah, we live on a planet. 263 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 3: Planet is part of a solar system. Solar system is 264 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 3: part of a galaxy. The galaxy is part of a 265 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 3: cluster of galaxies, which is part of a supercluster of galaxies, 266 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 3: which is part of a filament, which is a thread 267 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 3: in the cosmic web. And what's interesting is that actually 268 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 3: the discovery that there's this pattern, this incredible pattern in 269 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 3: the universe. It's not like a jumble of planets and stars. 270 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 3: And you know, you might get that impression if you 271 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 3: look at the night's kinda like, yeah, it's just like, 272 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,200 Speaker 3: you know, a jumble of stars. No, it's not. When 273 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 3: we look at it. We recognize this incredible. There's a 274 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 3: beautiful pattern. There's a tapestry to the universe, and that 275 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 3: was discovered actually by people at Harvard when I was 276 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 3: teaching there, and it made big news. And so we 277 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 3: now call this tapestry, this extraordinary pattern in the universe. 278 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 3: We call it the cosmic web. And I wanted to 279 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 3: start the movie off that way so that people will say, Okay, 280 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 3: I get it. I'm like this spec in this great tapestry. 281 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,160 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, and I got it, and I understood that. 282 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 2: And then you went through some of the theories that 283 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 2: science had believed and you discounted them, the Big Bang 284 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 2: theory and the idea that that out of this could 285 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 2: have come where we live. And as I watched again, 286 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 2: I it it just resonated with me that that there is. 287 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,399 Speaker 2: I've talked to friends of mine the idea of the 288 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 2: Sun goes around the Earth anywhere from what ninety to 289 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: ninety three million miles, if it was eighty five million miles, 290 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 2: if it was closer, would burn up, if it was 291 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: further out, would freeze. It's like perfect and it's been 292 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 2: doing it for about five billion years. As what the 293 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 2: science tells me, and who put that, how is that 294 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 2: put in motion? And again that is what you know, 295 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 2: believing is seeing the book and the invisible everywhere. Again, 296 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 2: I'm using the word documentary will prove the other thing 297 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: which I struck home with me, and I just want 298 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 2: to mention this quickly. You're the only other person and 299 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 2: I'm not as scientifically literate as you are, obviously, but 300 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 2: I came up on my own many years ago with 301 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 2: the idea when I heard people say what's your IQ 302 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 2: and what's my IQ and what's his IQ? I thought 303 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: to himself, that's kind of a stupid thing, because people 304 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 2: have different IQs, you know, you know, Aaron Judge of 305 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 2: the Yankee says this incredible athletic IQ, artistic IQ, musical IQ, 306 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 2: mechanical IQ. You know people people who are automobile mechanics, 307 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 2: they have a mechanical IQ that is that no Harvard 308 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: professor can do what they can do with an engine 309 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 2: of an automobile. And all of a sudden, you talked 310 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 2: in this about different including spiritual i Q. 311 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, question and a smart person Yeah. 312 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 4: Because. 313 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And that is that is to me the 314 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 3: ultimate question, because there is you know, there is a 315 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 3: certain conceit, a certain hubris among intellectuals, and you know, 316 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 3: I count myself in in that group. I'm an intellectual. 317 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,439 Speaker 3: I always have been pretty much all my life. And 318 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 3: when I was teaching at Harvard, or when I was 319 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 3: at a Cornell where I was a grad student but 320 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 3: also teaching there, you know, I was surrounded by intellectuals. 321 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 3: That's the academic world. And in that world there is 322 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 3: a certain conceit about, well, we're just too smart to 323 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 3: believe in God, and you know, and I was one 324 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 3: of those. But then, as I said, I got smacked 325 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 3: upside the head my beloved science that actually opened my 326 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 3: eyes to the existence of God. It's nothing that I 327 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 3: was expecting or looking for. I was just doing my science, 328 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 3: minding my own business, having a great time. I thought 329 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 3: I was on top of the world being a scientist. 330 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 3: And the last thing I ever expected Dan was for 331 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 3: science to somehow point me towards God. If anything, I 332 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 3: would have predicted that science would point me away from God, 333 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 3: because that seems to be the big myth many people believe, 334 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 3: and it's just simply not true. In this movie, The 335 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 3: Invisible Everywhere kind of just takes you on my journey 336 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:06,959 Speaker 3: from atheism to science, little by little, step by step, 337 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 3: opening my eyes, revealing certain things to me that finally 338 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 3: pointed unmistakably to the existence of God. And if I 339 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 3: wanted to be intellectually honest, I couldn't deny it. I mean, 340 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 3: it wasn't as if it was somebody's opinion or somebody 341 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 3: was preaching to me. This was my beautiful, beloved science. 342 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 3: It was saying, hey, look, no, this is not an accident. 343 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 3: You're not an accident. The universe is not an accident. 344 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 3: And so that's why I think the movie is so compelling, 345 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 3: and I think you said it exactly right. You know, 346 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 3: in movie making, we have this expression a four quad 347 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 3: movie as a movie that appeals to both young and old, 348 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 3: male and female. And when you do a four quad movie, 349 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 3: it's almost like hitting the jackpot, right. I feel like 350 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 3: The Invisible Everywhere is that kind of movie. It's a 351 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 3: four quad movie, but the four quads are different. I 352 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 3: believe that this movie is for what I call believers, uh, 353 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 3: for seekers, for doubters, and for haters. That is to say, 354 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 3: if you're if you already believe in God, you're going 355 00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 3: to find enormous validation in this movie. You're you're going 356 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 3: to find enormous evidence to back up what you already believe. 357 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 3: If you're a seeker, then you're going to identify with me, 358 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 3: because this movie is all about my journey as a seeker, 359 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 3: as this young man just trying to find out what's 360 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 3: true and what's you know, reliable that led me from 361 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,679 Speaker 3: atheism to believing in God. And if you're a doubter 362 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 3: and you have questions, and I think you're going to 363 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 3: find in this movie answers to a lot of your questions. 364 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,719 Speaker 3: I get that message from people who've read my book. 365 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 3: They say, doctor Gahan, you know I had these doubts 366 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 3: and I wasn't quite sure about this or about that. 367 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 3: But when I read your book, you know, you really 368 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 3: help me clarify certain things. And I think the movie 369 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 3: will do the same. And then finally, if you're a hater, 370 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 3: if you're one of these evangelical atheists who just so 371 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,439 Speaker 3: angry at everybody, anybody who's not an atheist, then I 372 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 3: think you're going to see. 373 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 2: That I. 374 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 3: Treat I treat belief respectfully, and I don't take any 375 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 3: shots at atheists, right. I'm not out to hurt anybody. 376 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 3: I'm not out to evangelize or preach. I'm just simply saying, Hey, 377 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 3: this is my journey. Take it or leave it. Learn 378 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 3: from it if you can. And if you don't learn anything, well, 379 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I've wasted an hour and twenty minutes of 380 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: your time. But I don't think that's going to be 381 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 3: the can, right man. I don't know I'm going to 382 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 3: be a waste of your. 383 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: Time before we go to break, and I'm a little 384 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 2: late for break. But I want you to know this. 385 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 2: I'm sure you know who doctor Brian Green is, Professor 386 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 2: Brian Green at Columbia. For all I know is your 387 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,400 Speaker 2: friends with him. He wrote a book called The Hidden Reality, 388 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,239 Speaker 2: Parallel Universes and the Deep Laws of the Cosmos. And 389 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: I had him as a guest one night. This has 390 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 2: to be now, probably fifteen years ago, and brilliant guy. 391 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 2: He developed string theory, as I'm sure you know anyway, 392 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 2: off camera, I asked him off microphone, I should say, 393 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 2: I said to him, Look, you're extremely smart. You're much 394 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 2: smarter than I am. I understand that, but I'm are 395 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 2: the people like you who meet and discuss these subjects. 396 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 2: And the subject that particularly I talked about was the 397 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 2: existence of God. What Brian said to me fifteen years 398 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 2: ago was for him, science answered all his questions. But 399 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 2: he said, amongst people at your level and his level, 400 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 2: he said, it's about fifty to fifty. And I've never 401 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: forgotten the answer to that question because Brian, I think 402 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,959 Speaker 2: at the time maybe still identifies himself as an as 403 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 2: scientific atheist or whatever, but he acknowledged that under you know, 404 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: I asked him. I said, there must be like fifty 405 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 2: people who get together, you know, within this realm, your 406 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: realm of friends and associates. And he said that's about right. 407 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 2: And I said, how many of them are there any 408 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 2: that believe in God? And he said to me about half, 409 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 2: which I thought was I don't know if that's your 410 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 2: experience or not, but that was what he said to 411 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 2: me fifteen years ago. So this is the bookend interview 412 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 2: to my interview with Brian Green, and I'm so delighted 413 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:24,680 Speaker 2: to have you with us. We're late for our newscast. 414 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 2: We're going to take our newscast. If you folks want 415 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 2: to get in and ask a question or make a comment, 416 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 2: I'm telling you dial now six one seven, two, five, four, 417 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: ten thirty or six one seven six, one, seven, nine, three, one, 418 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: ten thirty. Sometimes I give those numbers too quickly six one, seven, two, 419 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 2: five four ten thirty or six one seven, nine three 420 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 2: one ten thirty. Back with my guest, doctor Michael gian Uh. 421 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 2: He wrote the book Believing is Seeing Believing is Seeing, 422 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 2: and that book has evolved into a again an hour 423 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 2: twenty video which will be released next Wednesday, which should 424 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 2: be compulsory for every student in America. The Invisible Everywhere 425 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 2: dot Com. 426 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio. 427 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 2: My guest is doctor Michael gien Uh, formerly the science 428 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 2: reporter for ABC News for many years, professor at Harvard. 429 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 2: His new I'm gonna I'm using the word documentary. If 430 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 2: there's a better word, let me know. The Invisible Everywhere 431 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: dot Com. It's a website will will drop on Wednesday, 432 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: April eighth. Let me go first. We have a bunch 433 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 2: of callers here, doctor gian I'm trying to get to 434 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: as many as we can. A dear friend, good friend, 435 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: Harvey Silverglad, one of the brightest legal minds that I know. Harvey, 436 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 2: say hi, Say hi to doctor Michael gien. 437 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 4: Hello, doctor, I'm a graduate of Harvard and you're on 438 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 4: the faculty. I am in the process of writing a memoir, 439 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 4: and I have been thinking about a lot of things, 440 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 4: including my early years. And let me tell you a story. 441 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 4: My maternal grandma will live with us. She was a 442 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 4: true believer. She dragged me the synagogue every Saturday morning. 443 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 4: I was now three years old, and I would stand 444 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 4: there and I would say to myself, to whom are 445 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 4: they speaking? I don't see anybody. I was a skeptic 446 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 4: from the age of three. Now I can't say that 447 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 4: God exists. I can't say he doesn't exist. So I 448 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 4: have been a lifelong agnostic. I'm a cultural Jew, I 449 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 4: was barbits for and all of that, but I cannot 450 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 4: say one way or the other. I don't have that wisdom. 451 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 4: So I have been a lifelong agnostic from the age 452 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 4: of three. 453 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,679 Speaker 3: Well, thank you Harvey for sharing that with me. Yeah, no, 454 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: I understand. And I think that's where I was when 455 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 3: I was a young man, when I was living by 456 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 3: the motto scene is believing that. You know, if I 457 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 3: can't see something, I can't believe in it. But what 458 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 3: happened to me, especially at grad school, was I remember 459 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 3: taking a class in astronomy and the professor talked to 460 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 3: us about something called the missing mass problem, and make 461 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 3: a long story short, it was dates back to nineteen 462 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 3: thirty three when astronomer named Fritz Wicki was studying galaxy clusters, 463 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 3: and galaxy clusters spin very slowly, like a slow going 464 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 3: a merry go round. And what he discovered was that 465 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 3: they're spinning my much faster than they should be. And 466 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 3: the question then arose, well, what's driving the extra spin? 467 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 3: Something must be there, and Fritz concluded that, well, whatever 468 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 3: it was, we can't see it. And he called it 469 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 3: dunkel matitier, which is German for dark matter. And we 470 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 3: now realize that dark matter is a very large part 471 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 3: of the universe. We don't know what it is. We 472 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 3: know it's a kind of a non luminescent material. There 473 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 3: are theories about it, but honestly we're clueless. And then 474 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 3: that was compounded in nineteen ninety eight when a group 475 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 3: of three scientists who ended up getting the Nobel Prize 476 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 3: discovered that the universe is not only expanding, but it's accelerating. 477 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 3: It says something that's putting the pedal on the pedal 478 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 3: to the metal, and what is driving the acceleration. Again, 479 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 3: we don't know, but we give it the name dark energy. 480 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 3: And when you add up the amount of dark matter 481 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 3: and dark energy there is in the universe, lo and behold, 482 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 3: it turns out to be ninety five percent of the universe. 483 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 3: In other words, Harvey, everything we know about the universe 484 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 3: is based on just five percent of what we can see. 485 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 3: And so, as a young man in my twenties, I 486 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 3: realized I can't live by the motto seen as believing. 487 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 3: It's because most of reality is hidden, and it's even 488 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 3: deeper than that. We don't have time to get into 489 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 3: it in this radio. But I understand where you're coming from. There. 490 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 3: There are people who struggle with that, and that's okay 491 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 3: with me. I'm not trying to convert anybody, but my 492 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 3: experience is a very different one. I ended up believing 493 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 3: in God because of the evidence was just so overwhelming 494 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 3: for me. 495 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 2: Well, Harby, I hate to do this to you, but 496 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 2: I've got to keep rolling here because I'm dead on time. 497 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 2: Is a quick comment you wanted to make to. 498 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 4: That, Just everything that the professors said is the reason 499 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 4: I'm now sick. 500 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 2: All right, Harvey, I hope you will see this. This 501 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 2: documentary because I know that you will understand everything in 502 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 2: it and it may change your view. It may not, 503 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 2: it may not, but it is gonna be an hour 504 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 2: in twenty minutes, which is gonna This is gonna challenge 505 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 2: your view and make you think. It challenged a lot 506 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 2: of my views, and I learned a lot. I learned 507 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 2: more about science than a minute in an hour and 508 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 2: twenty minutes that I did in four years of high school, 509 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 2: four years of college. And I knew and I found 510 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 2: I got no science in law school. 511 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 4: As you know, it's to be available. 512 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'll give that, Harvey, and I'll even give 513 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 2: you a call tomorrow, but I'm gonna I'm gonna give 514 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 2: it right at the end of the hour. It's a 515 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 2: little complicated, but we need to save some time for it. 516 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: It's gonna be available and I'll get that. I'll get 517 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: it for everybody. Okay, thanks Harvey, talk soon, my friend. 518 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 2: We're gonna take We're gonna take a quick break and 519 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 2: I look, I'm gonna try this real quickly. One of 520 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,600 Speaker 2: the things in the movie that astonished me, that astonished 521 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 2: me was you explain the difference between most people, and 522 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 2: I thought about well, my mind is my brain. My 523 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 2: brain is my mind. But it's not no, no, do 524 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: that like it thirty seconds for us. I hate to 525 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 2: do this to you. 526 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 3: Well, you know most people thought that, you know, the 527 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 3: relationship is between the brain and the mind is like 528 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 3: the relationship between a movie projector and the images on 529 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 3: the screen. That the images on the screen are like 530 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 3: your mind, and they are the result of the projector, 531 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 3: which is your brain. So that if you shut the 532 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 3: projector off, the images go away. Which is like saying 533 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 3: that when your brain dies, your mind dies with it. Well, 534 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 3: we've discovered, after more than four decades of research, that's 535 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 3: simply not true. That when the brain dies, the mind 536 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 3: lives on. And that's very intriguing, and I deal with 537 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 3: that in the movie. 538 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 2: Well just it's it's amazing. We will take a break. 539 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to ask the callers to be quick. If possible, 540 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 2: we can carry this into next hour. I believe that 541 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 2: doctor Gian will not be able to stay with us 542 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: next hour, but I'm so excited about this. Let me. 543 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 2: Let's just get the break. 544 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray Boston's news Radio. 545 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 2: We're back. I want to go to Sadie next in Boston. 546 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 2: And Sadie, I'm begging you you got to be quick 547 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: for me here because I need some time at the 548 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,800 Speaker 2: end to be able to tell people how to see this, 549 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 2: uh this documentary. Sadie, go right ahead. You're own with 550 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 2: Michael gian. 551 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 5: It is a pleasure speaking with you. My name is 552 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 5: Sadie and I was married to a physicist who was 553 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 5: a believer and when he suddenly got sick, he had 554 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 5: an encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ in the hospital. 555 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 5: And we have known so many theologians such as C. S. 556 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 5: Lewis and Anthony Flew They were ahs and then they 557 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 5: became believers of this universe has been built by this 558 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 5: beautiful designer and who had a big handling it and 559 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 5: has made all of these galaxy and everything in it. 560 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 5: And my own daughter currently is working on dark matter 561 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 5: and as become an astrophysicist. And I just wanted to 562 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 5: say thank you for coming on the on Messe Dame 563 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 5: Ray's show, and by you speaking and demonstrating all of 564 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 5: everything you're saying, many people will believe in in the 565 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 5: name of God and as He is present in our 566 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:40,240 Speaker 5: lives and He exists. 567 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,240 Speaker 2: That is that is a beautiful minute in five seconds, 568 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 2: and I swear to God, I swear I am so 569 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 2: grateful for what you had to say. Doctor Gianne quick comment. 570 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I think that you know, the mystery of 571 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 3: the universe is not random. It's not random mystery. It actually, 572 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 3: for want of a better way of describing it, the 573 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,960 Speaker 3: mystery that I discovered in studying the universe all my 574 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 3: life takes the shape of a giant finger that clearly 575 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 3: points to the existence of God. So for me, when 576 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,799 Speaker 3: you say mystery, it might encourage agnostics like Harvey, where 577 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 3: I say, well, you know, it's also mysterious. There's nothing 578 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 3: I can't believe in anything now, No, the mystery, when 579 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 3: you really get into studying the universe beyond us and 580 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 3: within us, it takes the shape of this giant finger 581 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 3: that points to God. I don't know how else to 582 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 3: put it to you, but that's what this movie is 583 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 3: all about. And people will see it for themselves when 584 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 3: they see the movie, they'll see for themselves the evidence 585 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 3: that I encountered as a young man, and they will 586 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 3: for themselves see that it points to the existence of God. 587 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 2: Sadie, thank you so much. Let me get one more 588 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 2: call in here, Ken and Waltham. Ken, we're very tight 589 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,800 Speaker 2: on time. You're well, doctor Michael Gee, and go right ahead. Ken. 590 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 6: Thanks Dan. I was just looking up earlier. Apparently there 591 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 6: may be up to two trillion galaxies and the known universe, 592 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 6: and for me to think that we have some walk 593 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 6: on really and the knowledge of how all this began 594 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 6: is somewhat orthogonal to everything I think of. And then 595 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 6: doctor Gehan when I think most of people would use 596 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 6: Richard Dawkins, but he seems a lot angrier than you 597 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 6: all use Sam Harris when I hear him talk about 598 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 6: atheism and I hear you talk about convincingly that there 599 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 6: is a god. To me, it's all I'm just not there. 600 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 6: I'm just totally orthogonal to that. But I will watch 601 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 6: your documentary or the movie, sorry you know, calling it 602 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 6: a documentary. And I've heard you talk talk about things 603 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,880 Speaker 6: like euclid and and you know, his definitions and accepting 604 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 6: those because they are, you know, kind of outside our 605 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,919 Speaker 6: physical reality. But to accept that, to believe that right 606 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 6: now you can see geometry, I mean, I think that's 607 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 6: a very interesting concept. And from what I've heard you 608 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 6: say that, I'm sure from the movie there's something we 609 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 6: can all learn and I look forward to watching it. 610 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 2: Jan. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you 611 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:16,839 Speaker 2: so much. 612 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:18,919 Speaker 3: Jan. And when you and Dan do me your favor 613 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 3: when you watch it, shoot me an email. I really 614 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 3: want to know, because you sound like a very thoughtful person. 615 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 4: Ken. 616 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 3: I think you're the perfect viewer for the movie. So 617 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 3: let me know what you think about it. 618 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 4: God bless you, brother, JN. 619 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, appreciate it. So let's do this, okay. 620 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:39,280 Speaker 2: The movie is the Invisible Everywhere. We can find information 621 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 2: at the Invisible Everywhere dot Com All Wonder dot com. 622 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 3: Correct, Yeah, it's that simple. Come April eighth, just go 623 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 3: to the Invisible Everywhere dot Com and you'll see a 624 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 3: box office. You can rent the movie, you can own it, 625 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 3: and there are other options as well, just like you 626 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 3: would any other box office. Come April eight, just go 627 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 3: to the Invisible Everywhere dot Com. There's a box office there. 628 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 3: You can watch the movie. You can cast it on 629 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 3: your big TV screen in your living room, or watch 630 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,280 Speaker 3: it on your cell phone, or watch it on your computer, 631 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 3: whatever it is. And I like that, Dan, because I 632 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,200 Speaker 3: have followers all over the world. I have people from 633 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:22,280 Speaker 3: South Africa, Australia, Asia, Thailand. So come April eight, whoever 634 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 3: you are, wherever you are, whatever you believe, whatever you 635 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,000 Speaker 3: don't believe, you can just simply go to the Invisible 636 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 3: Everywhere dot Com and watch the movie. And by the way, 637 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 3: you can go there now and see the trailer, but 638 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 3: come April eight, you'll be able to see the whole movie. 639 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 3: So it's that simple. 640 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 2: And you also groups can also go there and host 641 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 2: a screaming as well as I understand it, and. 642 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 3: They will get a lot one of the options for. 643 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,160 Speaker 2: A public exhibition. Yep. So for Harvey Silverglated, who's listening, 644 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 2: Harvey the Invisible Everywhere dot Com, Harvey, give me a 645 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 2: call tomorrow. There's any confusion on that it will be 646 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 2: and that's available now, but the movie will be available, 647 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 2: will be available on April eighth, Doctor Michael gian I 648 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 2: just can't thank you enough for the work you've done 649 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,799 Speaker 2: and the word you've spread. I thank you so much. 650 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 2: We will talk. 651 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,120 Speaker 3: Again you bet, Thank you, Dan, and thanks to all 652 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 3: your listeners. What wonderful people, all of them, Harvey and 653 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 3: the Sadie and Ken, all of them. God bless you all. 654 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Doctor Michael Gean the Invisible Everywhere 655 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 2: dot com. Go check it out. It will change your life. 656 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 2: We're going to come back right after the eleven o'clock news. 657 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 2: I'd be more than happy to talk about this if 658 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,680 Speaker 2: we'd like to continue. Doctor ginn Is will not be 659 00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 2: with us after the news, So if you're there and 660 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 2: the line, stay there, and if not, we can pick 661 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 2: it up on the other sides. Coming back on night 662 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 2: Side right after the eleven o'clock news