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Speaker 1: ESPN fifteen thirty.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back sincey three to sixty Tour number three right

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Speaker 2: here on a Thursday, ESPN Cincinnati's sports station. Thanks for

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Speaker 2: listening along. Let's check in with our local Nova Care

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Speaker 2: rep and the trainer for the UC men's basketball program.

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Speaker 2: Our good friend Bob man Jean, joining us right now,

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Speaker 2: fresh off a big win for the Bearcats last night

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Speaker 2: in Manhattan, Kansas's a twenty nine point win. And yet

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Speaker 2: Bob does not miss a day. He's ready to join

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Speaker 2: us right now, standing by what's going on, Bob.

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Speaker 1: Tony Jess. We got in about two o'clock last night,

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Speaker 1: got home about three, so I'm functioning on three hour sleep.

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Speaker 1: So whatever I say today, I will disavow that I

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Speaker 1: ever said it.

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Speaker 2: That's fair, That's fair. I do want to say, feels

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Speaker 2: like in watching over the last two games, this basketball

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Speaker 2: team's playing with it looks like a new sense of

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Speaker 2: confidence right now.

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Speaker 1: Bob, Yeah, I mean they played kids play really well

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Speaker 1: last night. Great shooting night. I think we were like

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Speaker 1: in the fifty five to fifty six percent at one point.

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Speaker 1: We were late in the second half, we were still

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Speaker 1: shooting sixty percent in the three and anytime you can

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Speaker 1: do that. I mean, you put yourself in a good

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Speaker 1: position to win the game. Yeah, you know, and hopefully

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Speaker 1: you know, are some of our kids that are having

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Speaker 1: some issues injury wives and start getting back in their.

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Speaker 2: Sunday back at it Sunday against Utah and then tough

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Speaker 2: road trips next week Kansas and Texas Tech. But some

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Speaker 2: great opportunities still around for this team. But I wanted

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Speaker 2: to talk to you a little bit today about what

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Speaker 2: we saw across Major League Baseball yesterday, Bob, because it

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Speaker 2: was interesting because you had three pretty well known baseball

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Speaker 2: players all announced that they would be missing time with

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Speaker 2: the same injury. Jackson, Holiday, Corbyn Carroll, Francisco Lindoor all

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Speaker 2: out and we'll miss time due to handmate bone injury.

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Speaker 2: So let's let's start at the very base level. What

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Speaker 2: is the handmad bone and how is that going to

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Speaker 2: affect baseball players?

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Speaker 1: Well, your wrist is made up of a series of bones,

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Speaker 1: carful bones that that form complex joints, and they really

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Speaker 1: allow us to find to manipulate our wrisk to put

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Speaker 1: our hand in positions such as when you're throwing a baseball.

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Speaker 1: You know you're getting that wrist rotation and that puts

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Speaker 1: a tremendous strain around that complex of bones. And the

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Speaker 1: handmad is the second bone over in the wrist from

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Speaker 1: the pinky side or the owner side of your wrist,

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Speaker 1: and it's a very prominent bone and actually you know

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Speaker 1: it sits. It's got a little hook on it that

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Speaker 1: that protrudes toward the you know, the palm of your hand,

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Speaker 1: so that you know, when you get these injuries, as

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Speaker 1: you start to flex your wrist, you can have somewhat

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Speaker 1: of an impingement. Now from what I understand somehow, and

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Speaker 1: I think it was Carol may have broken his handmate

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Speaker 1: according to you know what's live out there now, and

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Speaker 1: the fact that if he does have to have surgery,

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Speaker 1: you know, it would be a lot like Joe Burrow

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Speaker 1: type six week process to get it back and you know,

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Speaker 1: see what happens. So but again, if you're a hitter,

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Speaker 1: imagine hitting a ball and having the vibration of the

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Speaker 1: bat come up through your hand. And if you have

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Speaker 1: any type of risk injury, not just himmate, but probably

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Speaker 1: the more common fractured one is the scaphoid, which is

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Speaker 1: the one right at the base of your thumb, and

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Speaker 1: that vibration going through there is going to be painful.

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Speaker 1: So and then if you're a pitcher where you're trying

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Speaker 1: to get some more on your ball and you're getting

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Speaker 1: risk rotation, so as you're coming across your body from

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Speaker 1: the throwing motion, your thumb is going from an up

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Speaker 1: position into a down position. And you know that doesn't

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Speaker 1: all come from the shoulder, that comes some from the

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Speaker 1: ana at the elbow and then the UH the risk

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Speaker 1: carpal bones. So you know, trying to put velocity with

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Speaker 1: rotation UH is going to be very uncomfortable and you're

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Speaker 1: basically going to try to rest it. You're going to

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Speaker 1: try some you know, other conservative management physical therapy activities

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Speaker 1: to see if you can you know, get that uninflamed

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Speaker 1: and if you can get back there and play.

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Speaker 2: Is it a Is it a common injury? Because I

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Speaker 2: feel like we haven't talked about it much, but then

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Speaker 2: in one day you hear three prominent Major League baseball

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Speaker 2: players all with the same injury. Is this something that's

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Speaker 2: that's that that's common in in baseball players or is

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Speaker 2: this a unique type of injury?

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Speaker 1: You know, again, when you look at it, Tony, and

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Speaker 1: you don't hear very much about it. Even in baseball, basketball, football,

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Speaker 1: you just don't see a lot of handmade injuries. You

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Speaker 1: see more skaphoid injuries or on the on the little

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Speaker 1: finger side back toward the alma, you get what it's

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Speaker 1: called a TFCC trans lunar cartilage tear, and those are

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Speaker 1: probably the two most common injuries. The handmaid is key though,

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Speaker 1: because that little hook we talked about actually has a

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Speaker 1: very important purpose of what's called the transfers carporal ligament

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Speaker 1: that actually stabilizes the wrist and and basically forms i'll

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Speaker 1: call it, for lack of a better word, or roof

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Speaker 1: underneath the palm so that the tendons to through. So

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Speaker 1: remember all the finger tendons have to come through the wrist,

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Speaker 1: and so you have tunnels where you know, the nerves

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Speaker 1: come through and the and the tendons come through, and

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Speaker 1: you know, when you get your age, often hear about

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Speaker 1: carpal tunnel syndrome, which is nothing more than that transverse

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Speaker 1: carpal ligaments starting to push on the nerves as they

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Speaker 1: come through those tunnels. Very seldom do you see it

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Speaker 1: in younger athletes.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: And again the hamdmaid problem, as you just said, you

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Speaker 1: know this is the first time you've heard about it.

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Speaker 1: When you look at the literature, it's not a very

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Speaker 1: very common injury compared to about three or four other

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Speaker 1: ones that are much more prominent. But when you're starting

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Speaker 1: to hit, or if you slide, or if you you know,

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Speaker 1: products go after a ball and you're landing on your wrist,

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Speaker 1: you have the potential. Because these bones are so small,

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Speaker 1: the ligaments are so small, you have the potential to

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Speaker 1: really irritate it. I mean earlier this year, one of

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Speaker 1: our players went up for a dunk and sort of

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Speaker 1: got bumped as you going up, came right down, landed

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Speaker 1: on his wrist, and you know, he irritated his skaphoid,

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Speaker 1: which is the bone over by the thumb side, and

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Speaker 1: it took us four weeks to get it to completely

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Speaker 1: calm down. He didn't lose any playtime because again he's

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Speaker 1: not batting, he's not throwing. You know, it didn't bother

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Speaker 1: him to shoot, so we let him keep going. So again,

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Speaker 1: you've got you know, those little bones undergo a lot

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Speaker 1: of pressure when you fall. And you look at what

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Speaker 1: happened to Joe Burrow last year. You know he lost

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Speaker 1: time due to a wrist surgery and a wrist injury.

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Speaker 2: I see in all three of these instances there's been

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Speaker 2: a note that the player has opted for surgery. When

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Speaker 2: you're looking at the handmaide injury, is there the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to try to rehab it or in that situation, are

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Speaker 2: you hoping to rehab and then you still might have

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Speaker 2: to have surgery. So they're just kind of getting out

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Speaker 2: of the way. But is there alternative options other than

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Speaker 2: just surgery right away?

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Speaker 1: Actually, you know, again, you can, depending on the severity

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Speaker 1: of the MRI and the injury, you can opt to

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Speaker 1: potentially treat it conservatively. The problem you have is what

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Speaker 1: you just mentioned, and that is, well, let's take four

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Speaker 1: weeks treat it conservatively and then find out it's not working,

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Speaker 1: and now all of a sudden I have to undergo surgery,

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Speaker 1: and now I've lost six more weeks. So surgery get

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Speaker 1: and some injuries, and I'm not saying across the board.

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Speaker 1: When these young kids get hurt, sometimes surgery is the

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Speaker 1: answer because you have a known outcome. You're going to

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Speaker 1: correct the mechanical injury, whether if you ligamin tended fracture

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Speaker 1: bone and then you have a known outcome. You know,

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Speaker 1: what's the percentage. Like take a fifth minute parsal fracture

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Speaker 1: at the foot. We can treat those conservatively all day long,

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Speaker 1: verse putting to screw in it and hopefully having they

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Speaker 1: give back seven eight weeks. We can treat it conservatively

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Speaker 1: for seven eight weeks and all of a sudden find

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Speaker 1: out that we still have to put this threw in.

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Speaker 1: So at the end of the day, you know, oftentimes

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Speaker 1: most athletes will say, Okay, what's the best fixed and

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Speaker 1: what's the one that gives me the best chance to

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Speaker 1: get back efficiently, safely and quickly, and the surgical intervention

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Speaker 1: will we'll meet those goals for the athlete.

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Speaker 2: And coming back. Is there a style in baseball on

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Speaker 2: which would would be more dangerous and type of re injury?

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Speaker 2: Is it hitting? Is it batting? Is there one or

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Speaker 2: the other that's going to be more difficult for these athletes?

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Speaker 1: Well, again, when you look at when you look at

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Speaker 1: the athlete, you know, if you're talking about a hitter

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Speaker 1: and that handmate. So when you've got it, let's say

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Speaker 1: I'm a right handed hitter, and my left hand is

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Speaker 1: my down hand, and my hand, my little pinky side

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Speaker 1: of my hand is pressed against the knob the bat

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Speaker 1: then squings it hard down on that and so there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of pressure up on the hook of that hamdmate,

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Speaker 1: and then you have the vibration of the hit coming through,

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Speaker 1: but you also having the mechanic of the swing where

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Speaker 1: that knob is constantly pressing into that little fingerside of

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Speaker 1: the of the hand, squeezing your handmate. So you know,

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Speaker 1: again you've got to be a little bit careful when

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Speaker 1: you return to hitting. Plus, you know, be in my

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Speaker 1: bottom hand what happens if the ball hits me right there?

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Speaker 1: You know, that would kind of make me very very

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Speaker 1: nervous as a trainer. Whenever they're going back to play.

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Speaker 1: Versus a picture who's requiring to have that rotation, there's

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Speaker 1: not as much squeeze, but there's a lot of force

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Speaker 1: with rotation causing the handmate to come what we call glide,

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Speaker 1: and whenever it glides, there's force on that glide. So

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Speaker 1: you now you have to worry about overload. You know,

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Speaker 1: how many pitches do I want them to throw when

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Speaker 1: they start their comeback. What's my pitching progression? It's just

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Speaker 1: like a shoulder injury. You know, we have pitching progressions

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Speaker 1: that take upwards in three weeks sometimes to get the

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Speaker 1: kid back to full go.

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Speaker 2: That is Bob man Jean from the University of Cincinnati

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Speaker 2: and Novacare you got a couple of days off before

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Speaker 2: Sunday's game against Utah. The Olympics are in full swing.

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Speaker 2: Do you have a favorite Winter Olympics sport?

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Speaker 1: Bob, Well, my favorite Olympic sport is already over curling.

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Speaker 1: I think if you're throwing rocks on ice, you got

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Speaker 1: to have some talent to throw that rock down the ice. Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know, my second sport is probably hockey, and I

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Speaker 1: can't and the girls are the women's team is doing

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Speaker 1: fantastic so far, and hopefully the men will have the

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Speaker 1: same outcome. Now and I really really feel sorry for

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Speaker 1: you know, Lindsay down and you and I talked, We

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Speaker 1: talked about her last week and I said she had

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Speaker 1: about a ten percent chance of not having a repeat injury,

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Speaker 1: and unfortunately, uh, you know, uh she I think from

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Speaker 1: what I understood, she hit a flag on the way down,

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Speaker 1: Uh lost her balance and uh that that's it's just devastating.

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Speaker 1: So you know, again, I think for people out there

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Speaker 1: listening that you know, when you have an injury, find

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Speaker 1: that person who's going to give you in your playing sports.

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Speaker 1: And I don't care if you're playing pick a ball

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Speaker 1: up at the tennis club or tennis or golf or whatever.

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Speaker 1: We have a sports related injury, to try to really

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Speaker 1: find somebody who's got, you know, got experience with that activity,

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Speaker 1: you know. And again, physical therapists athletic trainers do a

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Speaker 1: fantastic job because it's about the recovery more so than

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Speaker 1: it is about diagnosing the injury.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Bob Manjeen, University of Cincinnati, Novercare. Bob, thanks for

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Speaker 2: your time. As always, we'll talk again next week.

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Speaker 1: You got it, Tony, You and Austin have a good weekend.

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Speaker 1: And I've been trying to keep you up to date

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Speaker 1: on what's go on with the Steelers every now yeah,

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Speaker 1: what is it?

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Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers? Is he going to play now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh yeah, Aaron's back. Okay, all right.

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Speaker 2: You know, maybe Mike McCarthy can can help him at

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Speaker 2: this stage of his career.

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Speaker 1: Well, Mike McCarthy helped him at the early stage of

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Speaker 1: his career. They go to a Super Bowl together and

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Speaker 1: win a Super Bowl.

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Speaker 2: Full circle. I'll see what you're doing, Bob, Full circle.

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Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, I'm all in on full circle, all right.

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Speaker 2: Whatever you need to get yourself to sleep at night. Bob,

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Speaker 2: Thank you as always.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I love you.

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Speaker 2: Tony and Austin got h We appreciate you, Bob. Finding

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Speaker 2: three Next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Are

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Speaker 2: you running for office and have a mess