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Speaker 1: It's been a while since we've caught up with our

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Speaker 1: old friend Gerald Posmer, best selling writer, author, investigative reporter

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of columnizing and reporting these days as

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Speaker 1: well via justifacts dot media, and he's kind of enough

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Speaker 1: to join us via the Connectico Water Systems hotline. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like things are as busy as usual, or maybe

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Speaker 1: even busier.

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Speaker 2: Is that possible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if they're busier, Dan, but they're

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Speaker 3: certainly busy. And I mean I just was out in Phoenix,

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Speaker 3: wonderful Scottsdale area taking three new courses. I was doing

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Speaker 3: journalism one or two, the politics of cancer and the

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Speaker 3: Secrets of Big Pharma for Jordan Peterson's online academy. So

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Speaker 3: that was an intensive ten days to twenty four hours

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Speaker 3: of courses and as well managed to turn myself into

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Speaker 3: a QUALSI professor for a little bit of time.

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Speaker 2: What's that?

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Speaker 1: That's you know, that's a nice change of pace for you.

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Speaker 1: I think he may have done some of that before,

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Speaker 1: but I don't think probably this intensively.

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Speaker 2: What's that? How have you found that experience?

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Speaker 3: I found it, as you know, I take my head

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Speaker 3: off to teachers. I've had great teachers sometimes when I

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Speaker 3: was in college and at law school, and I took

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Speaker 3: it for granted that that was just easy enough for

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Speaker 3: them to do. They got up and they talked about

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Speaker 3: what they had already known in the past, and they

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Speaker 3: passed it on to me, and it was digestible and

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Speaker 3: fun and I learned a lot. And then I learned

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Speaker 3: when I had to do it myself. It's different from

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Speaker 3: just presenting information if you're actually doing a course and

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Speaker 3: you want to make people not just understand the information,

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Speaker 3: but it's useful to them in some ways. So I

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Speaker 3: try to turn the big pharma story into how to

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Speaker 3: be a smarter patient, how to turn journalism one O

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Speaker 3: two into how to write a non fiction bestseller. I

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Speaker 3: don't have any secret for that. It's not like all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, you know, there are eight different rules

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Speaker 3: and if you follow them, you'll be at the top

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Speaker 3: of the bestseller list. But there are things I've learned

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Speaker 3: over years by doing it. And the challenge was to

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Speaker 3: turn it into a format where people could watch it

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Speaker 3: and say, oh, yeah, okay, I picked up something on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's it sounds like, well, I'm sure it wasn't easy,

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Speaker 1: but it also sounds like it's a it's a good

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Speaker 1: way to sort of challenge yourself in a different way,

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Speaker 1: right from actually doing the journalism day by day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, without a doubt. And I will say also,

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Speaker 3: I present, you know, the I sort of created my

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Speaker 3: own power points for each of these courses. And I'm

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Speaker 3: not a PowerPoint expert by any means, but I certainly

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Speaker 3: learned to curse and scream and throw my want to

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Speaker 3: throw my computer down at times. I mastered the art

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Speaker 3: of being able to do it in an interesting way

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Speaker 3: and make the slides good and useful. But I will

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Speaker 3: say that it was it was some process, and I'm

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Speaker 3: glad I did. I'm glad they gave me the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to do it.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, I don't want to get too far

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Speaker 1: afield here, but it strikes me as as you mentioned that,

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Speaker 1: I just read a piece I think just within the

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Speaker 1: last week or two that might have been on The

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Speaker 1: Atlantic online, and the premise of the piece was that

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Speaker 1: at movie schools, or at schools in which you know,

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Speaker 1: individuals are studying film, that the biggest challenge right now

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Speaker 1: is getting the students to actually watch an entire movie

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Speaker 1: that they're finding. Like with everything else, the attention span

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Speaker 1: has been lessened to such a degree that they're on

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Speaker 1: their phones, they're looking around that they're far more interested

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Speaker 1: even then, of maybe even getting other opinions about a

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Speaker 1: movie online than perish the thought actually watching it in

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Speaker 1: its entirety, trying to process you know, what you think

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Speaker 1: of it, et cetera. Which is a little on the

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Speaker 1: scary side. Maybe not surprising.

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Speaker 3: No, absolutely, that is is very interesting me. It's possible

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Speaker 3: that the people who end up taking and looking at

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Speaker 3: the course about how to write a nonfiction bestseller may

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Speaker 3: not actually be interested in reading a book right now.

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Speaker 3: It maybe you think of doing their own book right

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Speaker 3: it may not have that patience or ability to think

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Speaker 3: you of writing a book, but they're not reading them.

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Speaker 3: So that I didn't read that at the Atlantic. But

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Speaker 3: that's unfortunately not surprising, just disappointing.

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Speaker 1: Looking at the headline on one of your more recent pieces,

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Speaker 1: The Internet on trial a Los Angeles courtroom may force

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Speaker 1: big tech to answer what it knew about children addiction

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Speaker 1: and design. Obviously, this is a case that's caught your eye.

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Speaker 1: Give us the background, give us some of the details,

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Speaker 1: and why you think it could be a really significant case.

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Speaker 3: So you know, Dan nobody. When I see nobody, it's

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Speaker 3: not quite true. Very few people, a lot of media.

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Speaker 3: They're not paying a lot of attention to this case

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Speaker 3: right now because it seems distant, it's too far away.

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Speaker 3: And the response I get from some journals right I

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Speaker 3: talk about it is what's not telling us anything new.

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Speaker 3: The cases was brought on behalf of this nineteen year

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Speaker 3: old woman. They identify her only in the suit by

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Speaker 3: her initials KGM, and she is you know, claims that

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Speaker 3: she was damaged by use of social media. It leads

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Speaker 3: to a whole series of problems if you become addicted

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Speaker 3: to it or what compulsively use it as a teenager,

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Speaker 3: you know, anxiety, self harm, depression, eating disorders, suicidal ideation,

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Speaker 3: you name it. She and her lawyers are seeking not

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Speaker 3: just damages but also changes to the product design, and

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Speaker 3: they suit TikTok and snapchat and Facebook and YouTube. Now

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Speaker 3: TikTok and snapchat settle, Facebook meta and YouTube have not.

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Speaker 3: So this is the first one to get to trial

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Speaker 3: of literally about it's hard to you have to look

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Speaker 3: jurisdiction by jurisdiction, but about a thousand cases, as I

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Speaker 3: can add them up, that are similar that are moving

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Speaker 3: through state in federal course. A tsunami, a tidal wave

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Speaker 3: of litigation. It's just about to crest on Sure. This

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Speaker 3: is the first one, and I think it will have

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Speaker 3: major ramifications if they prevail, because it will sort of

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Speaker 3: open up the floodgates even more. We've seen this happen

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Speaker 3: before on tobacco, We've seen it happen now on oxy

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Speaker 3: consent and opioids in other areas, and so this might

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Speaker 3: be the one that breaks the truth.

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Speaker 1: You're right that basically, you know, the allegation areas of

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Speaker 1: companies including Insta, Facebook, YouTube designed features that made their

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Speaker 1: platforms extraordinarily difficult for children to disengage from, thereby contributing

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Speaker 1: to things like depression, anxiety, eating disorders, self harm, et.

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Speaker 2: Cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So, you know a lot of people have said, well,

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Speaker 1: this is this a tobacco moment, But is this in

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Speaker 1: your mind now?

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Speaker 4: You're not. You don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you practice law anymore, but you did,

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Speaker 1: and you're very familiar with the law on the basis

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Speaker 1: of what you know. So is it going to be

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Speaker 1: a lot more difficult to prove when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: you know, the mental side of things in terms of

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Speaker 1: disengaging from you know, from this sort of addiction as

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Speaker 1: opposed to a tobacco addiction.

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Speaker 3: Well, we don't know, And that's why I'm so excited.

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Speaker 3: You know, you don't have to be a lawyer to

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Speaker 3: be excited about this. But maybe that's part of why

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited about this, because we're about to get

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Speaker 3: into discovery, and it's pretty hard for the average person

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Speaker 3: to get excited about litigation discovery. But discovery is where

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Speaker 3: we're going to find these things out. We're going to

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Speaker 3: know afterwards, not now, as to whether this evidence exists

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Speaker 3: or not. You know, when when tobacco in the nineties,

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Speaker 3: you have to remember the CEOs of the major tobacco

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Speaker 3: companies got in front of Congress and said their products

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Speaker 3: weren't addictive. They had paid and financed a whole bunch

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Speaker 3: of studies. Nobody knew that their money was behind it.

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Speaker 3: They counter the evidence it was addictive. They made the

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Speaker 3: science unsettled, and then it wasn't until you got into

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Speaker 3: the suits and you were able to find out that

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Speaker 3: they actually knew about it inside the companies, and we're saying, no,

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Speaker 3: don't tell anybody about that. Oh, that's not show them

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Speaker 3: that study. That's what we don't know here about tech.

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Speaker 3: So once you get into the study, the question isn't

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Speaker 3: of course, these platforms make money the more time you

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Speaker 3: spend on them, all of them. And as a result,

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Speaker 3: they divine design themselves with very very good tech people

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Speaker 3: to try to keep you attached to the platforms. I

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Speaker 3: get that. The question that we don't know the answer

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Speaker 3: to is did they do their own internal studies right

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Speaker 3: that Oh, by the way, on adlescent brains, this could

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Speaker 3: really be harmful. And then somebody says inside the company, well,

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Speaker 3: let's not tell them about.

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Speaker 1: That similar and then that's that would be I guess

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Speaker 1: some of the similarity about the about the tobacco case.

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Speaker 1: What the old what did they know and and when

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Speaker 1: do they know it? And to your point, now, maybe

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Speaker 1: we get a little bit more hard evidence than a

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Speaker 1: lot of supposition and speculation if this case, you know,

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Speaker 1: follows the way.

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Speaker 3: It might, right, and look at the I know that

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Speaker 3: one of the things I said to you, you know earlier,

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Speaker 3: was some journals I spoke to is sort of have

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Speaker 3: a shrug about it, and not because the case doesn't

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Speaker 3: have significance and might not be the first very important

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Speaker 3: case in terms of you know, tech and adolescent brains

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Speaker 3: and whether they're addictive and whether tech knew that. But

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Speaker 3: the response I get from some journals is, well, we

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Speaker 3: know that we know that the products are addictive, we

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Speaker 3: use them that way much less kids, and we know

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Speaker 3: that they have bad effects, and you know, I try

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Speaker 3: to keep my kids off of it, people will tell

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Speaker 3: me all the time, and not very successfully. But that

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean that you know the It's still not an

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Speaker 3: important case because I do think that this may not

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Speaker 3: be the case that blows it all open, but it's

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Speaker 3: the first one that's going to trial. And that's why

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Speaker 3: Meta and YouTube are taking a gamble TikTok and snapchat

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Speaker 3: reaching this undisclosed amount. In terms of a settlement, they're

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Speaker 3: not going to be able to settle their way out

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Speaker 3: of all of this meditation. It can't settle a thousand

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Speaker 3: of these lawsuits or more as they come in. At

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Speaker 3: some point they's going to have to be a trial,

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Speaker 3: and the industry is going to have to either say,

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Speaker 3: you know, we have some culpability and liability or we don't.

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Speaker 3: Because regulators aren't doing it. Legislators aren't doing it. Nobody

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Speaker 3: else is sort of stepping on top of the tech companies.

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Speaker 3: So litigation is a blunt tool. I get it. Nobody

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Speaker 3: likes it. People don't like trial attorneys. I get it.

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Speaker 3: They're not my favorite people. Wall Street Journal did a

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Speaker 3: piece saying this is just a money grab by trial attorneys.

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Speaker 3: I don't agree with that. I think this is actually

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Speaker 3: based upon everything I know at least makes a legitimate claim.

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Speaker 3: Now the question is whether that claim can be supported

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Speaker 3: with the evidence they find out.

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Speaker 1: And to your point, it is if we've decided I

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Speaker 1: don't know how if the science has settled officially about

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Speaker 1: the addictive nature.

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Speaker 2: I think we're certainly headed that way.

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Speaker 1: But it's a matter of what they might have known

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Speaker 1: and might have been deceptive about, or what they might

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Speaker 1: have buried in that regard.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. And you know, there's a sort of

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Speaker 3: what I call a split, and I talk about this

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Speaker 3: in the substack article VID. There's a split between those

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Speaker 3: people who think that what's addictive is the device. It's

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Speaker 3: the phone because the phone is so easy to carry out,

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Speaker 3: have it in your pocket, having your backpack, whatever else.

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Speaker 3: If everything was the side of an eleven inch iPad.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it wouldn't be, as you know, an addictive of product,

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Speaker 3: but it's so simple, so they actually think the device

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Speaker 3: is the driver. There are others who think it's social media,

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Speaker 3: and that's how you end up with these defendants. They

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Speaker 3: think that the phone may be the tool, the delivery system,

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Speaker 3: but social media is the actual fuel. And I have this,

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Speaker 3: you know, in my worst and most cynical moments, I

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Speaker 3: have this few where eventually, you know, Meta and TikTok

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Speaker 3: and others and YouTube will say, not us, it's the

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Speaker 3: phone that's the blame. We're just providing the software on it.

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Speaker 3: It's Apple, go after and go after Samsung. But I

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Speaker 3: don't think that's going to happen. I mean, very few

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Speaker 3: people are focusing on that. And without those apps, you

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Speaker 3: could have the phone. But if you don't have material

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Speaker 3: on the phone, the kids spend, we and others are

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Speaker 3: interesting and you're not going to stay on the phone.

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Speaker 1: Let's touch on a couple other things in the remaining minutes,

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Speaker 1: Gerald Posner kind enough to join us. I want to

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Speaker 1: read you a tweet from a man named Damon Linker,

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Speaker 1: who you might know or might recognize the name, and

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Speaker 1: this is I think in the wake of the news

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Speaker 1: that the Washington Post has pretty much gutted major parts,

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Speaker 1: major sections literally of its newspaper today. That announcement came

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Speaker 1: earlier today. Here's the linker observation in the future parentheses,

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Speaker 1: meaning next week, the totality of American journalism will be

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Speaker 1: the New York Times plus thousands of sub stacks with

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Speaker 1: Getty Images subscriptions.

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Speaker 2: Is he right?

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Speaker 3: I don't think so. It's a legacy. Media certainly has

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Speaker 3: its challenges, without any doubt, I understand that. And you

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Speaker 3: know a lot of people don't like the way that

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Speaker 3: they'll complain about the Wall Street Journal being too conservative

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Speaker 3: in the New York Times and the Washington Post and

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Speaker 3: allitty of times being far too liberal, and they viewed

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Speaker 3: as being through those different lenses. But those organizations still play,

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Speaker 3: and people hate when I say this because I have

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Speaker 3: a sub substax doesn't control the world. What controls the

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Speaker 3: world is still those major papers with reporters, the Free

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Speaker 3: Pressed and everybody else will carved it out. But people

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Speaker 3: like Schellenberger, people like you know, the and others. Verry

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Speaker 3: Wis has made a big difference. Matt Taibi so independent

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Speaker 3: journalists have made a difference, and I like to think

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Speaker 3: that some of us in a smaller way, who are

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Speaker 3: writing and trying to stick to the old fashioned ways

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Speaker 3: of doing journalism, which as you call up, you get

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Speaker 3: your sources, you confirm everything, and also have an effect

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Speaker 3: on the news. But I don't think it's just going

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Speaker 3: to be New York Times and subtects.

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Speaker 1: And it is interesting the New York Times numbers when

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Speaker 1: it comes to online subscriptions. I mean, their numbers, if

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Speaker 1: they're accurate, are are astonishing.

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Speaker 2: I mean they are.

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Speaker 1: They seem to be the one, you know, national out

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Speaker 1: the outlet that thrives in that regard. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what they figured out, but they in a world, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, so many metropolitan sized newspapers that were never

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Speaker 1: necessarily national in scope the way the Times was and

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Speaker 1: is are struggling, you know, and and cutting back and

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Speaker 1: no longer putting out real news, you know, putting out

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Speaker 1: the broadsheet newspapers. There's nothing that's just all online at

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Speaker 1: this point. I think the Wall Street Journal actually digitally

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Speaker 1: is doing quite well as well, but there ain't many

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Speaker 1: that seem to be able to pull that off right now.

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Speaker 3: No you're absolutely right. As a matter of fact, it's

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Speaker 3: pretty remarkable because papers that I read and look at

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Speaker 3: a lot of sources of information. I read other subjects,

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Speaker 3: good newspapers, I watch some online news, and the I

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Speaker 3: try to pull it all together from different perspectives. And

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Speaker 3: the La Times, Chicago Tributa, the Miami Herald, where I'm

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Speaker 3: look at at the Boston Globe for the most part,

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Speaker 3: they've been decimated in many ways. They're shadow of them

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Speaker 3: for themselves. They still have the Globe used to have

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Speaker 3: in Boston, the spotlight team that would do these, you know,

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Speaker 3: special investigations. They still do them, but at a slower

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Speaker 3: pace and not as much. And people may not like that,

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Speaker 3: but it's true, and you're right. The Times has done

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Speaker 3: very very well. In part, you know, its subscription base

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Speaker 3: grew dramatically in the first Trump administration, leveled off a

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Speaker 3: little bit, and then grew getting during COVID and the

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Speaker 3: new Trump administration, I think is another growth spurt for

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Speaker 3: it in some ways. But the h there's no doubt

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Speaker 3: that it has prospered, where a lot of newspapers have

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Speaker 3: just struggled to stay above the uh you know what

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Speaker 3: I call the shallow end of the pool and keep

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Speaker 3: their head above the water.

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Speaker 1: I know you know this story quite well, but I

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Speaker 1: want to get your reaction to it because you've done

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Speaker 1: a lot of reporting on it as well.

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Speaker 2: This is out of New York Times.

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Speaker 1: The American Medical Association today endorsed restrictions on gender related

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Speaker 1: surgeries for miners, saying they generally should not be performed

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Speaker 1: until the patients reach adulthood. This came on the heels

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Speaker 1: of the announcement that yesterday from the American Society of

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Speaker 1: Plastic Surgeons, who took a similar position, saying such procedures

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Speaker 1: should be detailed until age nineteen. Give me a reaction

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Speaker 1: whether this is a sea change that is starting, and

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Speaker 1: how much of it has to do with a case

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Speaker 1: that you've written about, by the way, a case that's

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Speaker 1: getting a lot of attention being linked to exactly these

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Speaker 1: sorts of reversals starting to take place.

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Speaker 3: So my feeling, just in a couple of words, about

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Speaker 3: those two medical organsations, the AMA and the American Pactic

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Speaker 3: Surgery Society changing their views and modifying them and rolling

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Speaker 3: back on endorsing gender firming care for kids, is about time.

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Speaker 3: It is long overdue. The medical associations across the board

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Speaker 3: have been captured to theologically by this. They've been endorsing

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Speaker 3: this in America, not in other countries. In the UK

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Speaker 3: there was a large report and they have backed off

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Speaker 3: of hormones and surgery a couple of years ago. They've

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Speaker 3: done that in Scandinavian countries, where they had been very

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Speaker 3: pervasive and liberal about this before. But American medical associations

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Speaker 3: continue to say, no, this is the right thing. Gender

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Speaker 3: firming care quote unquote for kids is the proper medical treatment.

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Speaker 3: And I do think there was a two million dollar

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Speaker 3: settlement judgment in a White Plains, New York court just

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Speaker 3: a week and a half ago. It was not on

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Speaker 3: whether gender ferman care was right or wrong. You're right

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Speaker 3: I wrote about this. It was a malpractice case. But

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Speaker 3: still it's sort of sent a shot across the battle.

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Speaker 3: I think these medical associations have been thinking about a

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Speaker 3: change for some time and they are finally making it.

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Speaker 3: Still waiting for the American Psychiatric Association, which I've written about,

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Speaker 3: which has a textbook out that's disgraceful, and the American

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Speaker 3: Psychologist Association APA. They have not come at all. And

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Speaker 3: I think that what they're doing here maybe litigation protection

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Speaker 3: in the future, right, But it's also because they're listening

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Speaker 3: to the counterweight. They are no longer just buying the

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Speaker 3: progressive view of this that you have to endorse it

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Speaker 3: and stamp it and improve it.

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Speaker 1: The White Plains case, as I understand it, I believe,

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Speaker 1: is more about whether it, like you said, it's not

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Speaker 1: taking a position on the surgery so much as whether

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Speaker 1: proper procedure, proper deliberations were put in place all along

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Speaker 1: that process.

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. They didn't ask your to decide the

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Speaker 3: big broad questions about gender medicine. It focused just on

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Speaker 3: the specific doctors and whether they had exercised appropriate medical judgment.

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Speaker 3: And the case was really a bad case, I mean

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Speaker 3: a bad case for the doctors, the plaintiff. And she

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Speaker 3: was a sixteen year old girl when she had a

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Speaker 3: devil mistectomy, so both her breasts are taken off in

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Speaker 3: twenty nineteen when she was sixteen. They had weeks of

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Speaker 3: testimony in this how a system really that was supposed

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Speaker 3: to protect kids instead accelerated her towards this irreversible harm.

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Speaker 3: And she is now twenty two. She no longer identifies

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Speaker 3: as transgender, and the jury found that the psychological evaluation,

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Speaker 3: the surgical decision making, all of that was really deeply

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Speaker 3: growthy negligent.

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Speaker 1: Why in your and you've i know, written a lot

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Speaker 1: about this over a long period of time, I'm guessing

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Speaker 1: taking a lot of heat too, which we'll get to

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Speaker 1: in a minute. But why does there seem to be

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Speaker 1: such a wide disparity between much of Europe's approach in

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Speaker 1: this regard which has become which is I think more

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Speaker 1: deliberate or more conservative? One could say, then, what has

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Speaker 1: has the last you know, twenty years or so tend

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Speaker 1: to take it hold in the United States?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that we came to it later in

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Speaker 3: the US than they had in Europe, sernay, in the

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Speaker 3: Scandinavian countries, right, And then you know what often happens here.

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Speaker 3: We take a little bit of a good thing and

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Speaker 3: we take out if that's something that might be all right,

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Speaker 3: let's put it on steroids. We've done that, on opioid

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Speaker 3: pain killers, We've done on any number of things. And

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Speaker 3: so when it came to gender per me care, it

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Speaker 3: became from a small idea of what might happen for

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Speaker 3: children who were being diagnosed with this condition. And therefore

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Speaker 3: were under the view of a psychologist. You know, I

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Speaker 3: ended up doing a story a year and a half

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Speaker 3: ago called who Put the Kids in Charge? And what

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Speaker 3: we essentially did in the US was said, by the way,

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Speaker 3: you know, if somebody comes into your practice as a

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Speaker 3: psychologist or a psychiatrist and they say, at fourteen thirteen fifteen, whatever,

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Speaker 3: I think that I'm another gender, I'm trapped to the

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Speaker 3: wrong body. You cannot say no to them. You can

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Speaker 3: to sense the contest that you can't fight them, because

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Speaker 3: that would be the equivalent of, you know, sending them

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Speaker 3: into a spiral that could need them suicide. And it

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Speaker 3: became an accepted fact. I put fact in quotes that

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Speaker 3: if you said no, you turned down. You stopped a

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Speaker 3: child who wanted to transition into another sex, which is impossible,

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Speaker 3: but they think they can surgically do it. That they

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Speaker 3: would commit suicide. So you're better off with a they

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Speaker 3: would say, a living girl if it was a boy,

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Speaker 3: than a dead son. It turns out that those studies,

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Speaker 3: time and time again, now we've gone through the figures,

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Speaker 3: just not true. The risk of suicide is hired for

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Speaker 3: LGB kids anyway that it is for straight kids. It's

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Speaker 3: just slightly higher for those who identify as gender non binary.

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Speaker 3: But the highest group are those who try to convert

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Speaker 3: to another gender or sex and then are called detransitioners,

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Speaker 3: decide they want to come back and find out they

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Speaker 3: can't because surgically they had parts of their bodies amputated.

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Speaker 3: And when they can't come back, that's the highest rate

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Speaker 3: of suicide. So it's remarkable that we are essentially running

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Speaker 3: a clinical trial in real time on children in this country.

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Speaker 3: And now, as you say, we have the medical associations,

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Speaker 3: it should be giving advice to doctors in oh, let's

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Speaker 3: slow up a little bit. That should have been the

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Speaker 3: advice in the very beginning. Let's slow up and decide

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Speaker 3: that the science is there before we do it, but

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Speaker 3: we did the other way around.

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Speaker 2: Well, one follow up question on that.

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Speaker 1: You know, as I said, you've been writing on that

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Speaker 1: topic for a while, I'm assuming what's the heat like,

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Speaker 1: because as you say, you're you come from historically what

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Speaker 1: would be classified as sort of the liberal political tradition.

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Speaker 1: I think that's what you grow up in and also

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Speaker 1: a sort of scholarly I'm going to report what I

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Speaker 1: can learned in front of me regardless of what direction

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Speaker 1: this ends up going. But I don't think that's been

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Speaker 1: enough for a lot of people. So what how much

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Speaker 1: heat have you been dealing with over the period of

435
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 1: time you've been exploring this subject.

436
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 3: So the first time I wrote about it was actually

437
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 3: back in twenty twenty three for the Wall Street Journal,

438
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,360
Speaker 3: Yes remember, called the Truth about Puberty Blockers, in which

439
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 3: I just laid out the risk of puberty blockers. If

440
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,920
Speaker 3: you give hormones that are not approved by the FDA,

441
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 3: that are given off label to kids to stop their

442
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,920
Speaker 3: production of their natural hormones. So boy, you stopped the testosterone,

443
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,080
Speaker 3: a girl, you stopped estrogen, and then after a year

444
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 3: or so, they decide they still wanted to transition. You

445
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 3: start them on the cross sex hormones, the hormones of

446
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 3: the opposite text, and I explained, but the dangers were

447
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 3: puberty blockers. You would have thought that I was writing

448
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: something that said, you know, I want to discriminate against

449
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 3: the transgender people. That it's not at all what I'm saying.

450
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 3: I believe that people identify as transgender adults eighteen and older.

451
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 3: You can end up doing what you want. I don't

452
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 3: necessarily want the federal government, the taxpayer paying for it,

453
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 3: but you can do it. I don't think people should

454
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 3: be discriminated against because their transgender. I have all of

455
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 3: that view, but I realize that when it comes to

456
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 3: children and to kids, it should be a different standard

457
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 3: because they don't have informed consent. It's being given by parents.

458
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 3: I saw the other day testimony in one of these

459
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 3: situations by a parent who said that she knew when

460
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 3: her child was two that the child wanted to transition.

461
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 3: I said, in response to that on X, well, you

462
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 3: know when somebody I meet somebody and they say I

463
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 3: have a vegan dog, that tells me more about the

464
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 3: owner than it does about the dog. It's this transference

465
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 3: of what the owner thinks the dogs should have. And

466
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 3: I think it's the same thing with parents sometimes seeing

467
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 3: this in two, three, four, and five year olds. It's

468
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 3: just not the science.

469
00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 1: Last item for today, not a connected Well, I guess

470
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: maybe in some ways it is semi connected. Subject of

471
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 1: headline in variety JK Rallwing denies inviting Jeffrey Ebstein to

472
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 1: Harry Potter and the Cursed Child Broadway opening. DOJ docs

473
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: show he was turned away at the door, And I

474
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: want to get your reaction to one of the reactions

475
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: I saw online to get into this subject, at least briefly.

476
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: This is Robbie So wrote this a desperate attempt to

477
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: smear jk rallowing false fails, but at what cost. We

478
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 1: are now at the point where every single notable person

479
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: has to comb through their events guest lists for the

480
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: last two decades and make sure they never invited, interacted,

481
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: or happened to encounter a person and in kind of

482
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 1: person who was desperately trying to attach himself to fame

483
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: their attempts to defend themselves take the former of XT

484
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: andize Epstein connection. Are you do you still say this

485
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 1: isn't a witch hunt? So I ask you this maybe

486
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 1: an impossible question in the ragning minutes we have to

487
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: even answer, but how do you thread the needle on

488
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 1: following the facts, holding the right individuals accountable if they

489
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 1: haven't already that have ties to Epstein that might go

490
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: beyond just whether they padded them on the back. How

491
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: do you thread that needle without us losing our minds

492
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: and reaching the point where literally these are the kinds

493
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: of sort of explanations and demands that are being made

494
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: pretty much every day as more and more of these

495
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: documents get released and more of them get examined. What's

496
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: the what's the balancing act here?

497
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, you know, the balancing act eventually going

498
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 3: to be that you're going to have to find out

499
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,119
Speaker 3: somebody's name appears inside the documents in the Epstein files

500
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 3: and they automatically air Tarrent Peathers without people understanding anything else.

501
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,719
Speaker 3: And JK. Rowling is a perfect example of it. That

502
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 3: people have been angry at her online. You think I've

503
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 3: had people angrievy Take that and make it ten thousand

504
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 3: times more. Why Because you know she stands up for

505
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 3: women's only spaces, protecting them not having men who identify

506
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 3: as women to come into them. And she's very strong

507
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 3: on stopping the gender treatment of children. And she's viewed

508
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 3: by many people as being as a result, transphobic. They

509
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 3: don't like her. She has all types of haters. The

510
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 3: minute her name appears anywhere in the Steam files, that's

511
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 3: enough for people to say, Ah, say she wasn't caring

512
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: about those children. It's absolutely false. I've talked about this.

513
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 3: To me, it's a slander, and it is the slander

514
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 3: of the moment. So that if you appear the Steam

515
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,959
Speaker 3: files you get tarned feather for this. There are people

516
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 3: that are going to have like Mandelsson, who's the former

517
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: cabinet officer in the UK, He's going to have some

518
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 3: real difficulties. Andrew, the prince who's had his title removed

519
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 3: in the royal family, looks like he's in deeper water

520
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 3: than ever. And people over here I'm sure will be

521
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: sorry that they ever had long Epstein associations and they

522
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: will be exposed. But in cases I growing, I see

523
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 3: it used online by so called influencer accounts that don't

524
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 3: like her position on women's rights right or not, and

525
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 3: they're sort of hammering out to the point where she,

526
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: as you said, deny it. So it's like somebody saying

527
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 3: when did you stop? You know, we used to joke

528
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 3: about this in law school. When did you stop beating

529
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: your wife? Is a question you would ask for somebody

530
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 3: and they would say, I don't beat my wife, but

531
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 3: they would be answering the question about when did they

532
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,800
Speaker 3: stop beating their wife. It's how you pose the question

533
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 3: in an inflammatory way or make the accusation, and therefore

534
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 3: some of it sticks. And Dan I guarantee you there

535
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: will be people who just look at a passing headline

536
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 3: or an ex commentary or some meme on and they'll say,

537
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 3: you know, JK. Rowling was associated with Epstein and it's

538
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 3: just it's just bogus, and that that is part of

539
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 3: this that is quite impurating. You know. I like I

540
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 3: like social media. I use it. I just don't like

541
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 3: the cess pole that goes along with it.

542
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: Sometimes I appreciate the time.

543
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: It's always's great to catch up and we'll stay touches on.

544
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 3: Thanks Jerald, Thank you, Dan.

545
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: Thanks, I appreciate you. Jerald Posner.

546
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: I'm a number of I think pretty interesting and compelling subjects.

547
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: Bratcheon Brian Cafe in text Fine is open at six

548
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: four six, eight six, don't forget Kessler in about a nine.

549
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 5: Dave Chappelle returns to Minnesota February sixteenth with very special

550
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 5: guest clips and don't miss out this one off, one

551
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 5: of a kind set Grand Casino Arena in Saint Paul

552
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 5: to get her ond sale. Now all the DETAILSKFE dot

553
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 5: com keyword calendar.

554
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: All right, so we've got I'll get to some texts

555
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: reacting to our half hour conversation with Jerald Posner Award

556
00:29:55,280 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: winning Investigative reporter author Case Closed, did the definitive Kennedy

557
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: assassination book that's really never been topped, although our good

558
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: friend Vincent Buliosi, the Late Great tried to with a much.

559
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: That book.

560
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: I think in hardcover because it got sent to me

561
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: when we had him on and I think the hardcover

562
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: book weighed like fifty two pounds.

563
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 2: You couldn't check it.

564
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 5: You'd have to pay for an extra bag exactly, and

565
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 5: checked it on the flint and be over the fifty

566
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 5: pounds limit.

567
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: Along with it, it was accompanied by like one of

568
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: those CD ROMs that had all kinds of added in.

569
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: It's the most exhaustive and very well done.

570
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: But Gerald kind of got there first, and he's written

571
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: about big pharma, all sorts of things, MLK assassination.

572
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 2: He's one of the best. So we'll get to some.

573
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: Of the texts that have come in in response to

574
00:30:55,000 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: several subjects that we'd explored with him. But we got big,

575
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: we got our cell phone. We're waiting for that big

576
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: trade that the wolves are going to make. It hasn't

577
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: been made yet. In fact, to this point, we've only

578
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 1: made one deal and we have not received any players

579
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: in return.

580
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 2: Correct.

581
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 5: Indeed, did you get the press release? The press release

582
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 5: is very funny.

583
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 2: The headline was what did it says? Are cash consideration?

584
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: Cash consideration? People had some fun with that.

585
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 1: Yes, and so the assumption at the time was where

586
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: we're kind of greasing the wheels, improving our options to

587
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: make a big deal. We don't know that that's the case.

588
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: It's possible, but it hasn't happened yet. Got less than

589
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: twenty four hours now. And if you're in the group

590
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: like Sam Mitchell, who thought who Sam joined us at

591
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: three thirty, that that Kobe White might have been an

592
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: interesting piece for this team that could have helped them

593
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: at least in the short run. Remember, that's no longer

594
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 1: an option. White part of a deal in which he

595
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: goes Where does he go? He goes from Chicago Charlotte

596
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: to Charlotte.

597
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 3: Right.

598
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: And by the way, Mike Conley.

599
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: Is in that deal too, which parenthetically we should add

600
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: means because he's already been traded twice, he could end

601
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: up back here on a minimum deal if he is released,

602
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: bought out or bought out. I guess I should say, yeah,

603
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: you're you're right for he might be on the show

604
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 1: at six o'clock tonight.

605
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 2: That's because he.

606
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: Originally at three yesterday, then we found out he was traded,

607
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: and then we.

608
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: Just did a series of salutes.

609
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: We may have time to salute him in person or

610
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: at least on the phone when we, like you say,

611
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:40,719
Speaker 1: he's on with us at six o'clock.

612
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 5: People had a great idea because the Wolves put out

613
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 5: like a highlight reel thanks for the memories. If they

614
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 5: do reacquire him, I think theoretically it could be done

615
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 5: by Friday. When the Wolves play, they should play that

616
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 5: video welcoming him back.

617
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 2: That's true, that'd be great.

618
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: He's barely been gone for like a minute and a half.

619
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: But what needs to be I guess noted is well,

620
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: now it's it's a moot point because White's already been traded.

621
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: But the one downside in using the Conley salary as

622
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: a trade ship, that's that's your biggest trade ship that

623
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: they have among players that you that you're willing to

624
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: deal right because he makes a little more money. Is

625
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: that once you use it the way the Wolves did,

626
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: you no longer have it as a chip to actually

627
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: get the guard that you're looking for. Who might help you,

628
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: including Kobe White, and you're left with still other players

629
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: you can get, including one or two of the guards

630
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: the Bulls still have. But there I don't think they're

631
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: considered on the same level. It would be cheaper. So

632
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: I don't think right now, I'm never going to say

633
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: never on Giannis because we've seen things come together late.

634
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 4: We know.

635
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: Tim Conley is a very determined, aggressive guy, and he's

636
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: got he's creative, so maybe tonight he's gonna wake up

637
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: from a cold stone slumber at two thirty in the

638
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: morning and say this is how we do it. Here's

639
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: the way we get this thing done. I don't think

640
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: you could rule any of that out. But the betting

641
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: money right now is he's not gonna end up in

642
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: Minnesota before the trade downe like he being honest. So

643
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: then you're left with, well, what is there a a

644
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: B level move at least if the A plus move

645
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:36,839
Speaker 1: is not available, what can't be Kobe White?

646
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,720
Speaker 2: So I don't think. I don't think.

647
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: Charlott's going to trade him again. The presumption is they

648
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 1: took him because they want them. By the way, they're

649
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: playing pretty good ball. Finally, they're a game behind the Bulls.

650
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 1: Apparently that what I read. Joe Cowley said, well, yeah,

651
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: they played a lot better. So that's what we're left with,

652
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 1: is there. You know, there's also hope that a couple

653
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: of other buyouts wild take place with which might represent

654
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: a player who could give the Wolves a little bit

655
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 1: of depth off the bench better than what they have now.

656
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 1: What you're looking for is obviously somebody who's a veteran

657
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: and maybe even somebody who's long in the tooth. But

658
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 1: you're you know, you're not making you don't think he's

659
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: going to be part of your future. You just want

660
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: something that I think they desperately need because I'll say again,

661
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: I don't love their chances to even get back as

662
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: far as they did a year ago without adding one

663
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: piece of depth that can score. Because I've over a

664
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 1: million times this is not the same team as last year.

665
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: It's just not.

666
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: You could say Edwards maybe is better than he was

667
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: last year, but they're missing too much depth at this

668
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:45,399
Speaker 1: point that they had a year ago.

669
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 2: So we'll see.

670
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: But right now, and you've maybe been checking the wires,

671
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: I don't even know about, you know, the sort of

672
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: reckless speculation stories. If there's anything other than Yiannis. Is

673
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 1: there a plan B that we haven't heard of any

674
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 1: names that have been floated because the James Harden dream

675
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: of mine died officially, sam Mitchell thought I'd lost my

676
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: mind even considering it, which is I love yeah, exactly it.

677
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 1: But there So that's where we are. Unless now the

678
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: big deal today was street closed. Guy Anthony Davis part

679
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 1: of this mega deal, he goes to Washington. The Wizards

680
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: of Oz obviously gone from We're always rebuilding to bleep it.

681
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put a couple of players together

682
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:33,200
Speaker 1: and see if we can get something done.

683
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 2: We need to pause.

684
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 5: Yes, can I run by some to you of some

685
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 5: other natives, Yes, that apparently are in the mix, Well

686
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 5: maybe maybe not. One in particular reportedly wants to come

687
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 5: here or Miami like Giannis.

688
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 2: That's a good tease. Let's do that.

689
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: We'll get a quick pause in and explore that very

690
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: controversial subject.

691
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 4: Net I keep.

692
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: Getting text from people saying, why in the hill are

693
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: we not clamoring for the Wolves to trade for Kyrie Irving.

694
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,880
Speaker 1: I've been given no indication that the Mavericks are in

695
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: the mood to do that.

696
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 2: Are they? Did I miss something?

697
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 3: No?

698
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 5: You haven't, but that was one of the names that

699
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,919
Speaker 5: has been kind of speculated because of the Davis move,

700
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 5: as if they're saying, we're building everything around the nineteen

701
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 5: year old and the timing's not right, but don't you

702
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 5: have to keep well.

703
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would definitely consider it. Yes, I had one

704
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 1: hundred percent considerate he may play this season. Yet Yeah,

705
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: coming off the ace Rael, I think a year ago,

706
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: because I think I give him credit as a guy

707
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,759
Speaker 1: used to I rolled my eyes about Kyrie as much

708
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: as anybody, But I thought in Dallas, in terms of

709
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: on the court, I thought he handled himself very well.

710
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: I really did. He cooked us. It wasn't just Lucas West.

711
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: Now, whether that's, you know, the new Kyrie that's going

712
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 1: to stay, I don't know. But I I had not

713
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 1: read much nationally that.

714
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,839
Speaker 2: The Mavericks were in that mood.

715
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: But maybe what you're saying is because of this trade,

716
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 1: the feeling is when they get rid of both.

717
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: I think that would be silly to me.

718
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: I'd rather see I don't like the idea of we're

719
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: going to make everybody that young, because I still think

720
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: you lessen the chances that the young guys can do well.

721
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: If they don't have other people around him around them

722
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: that are that are good enough?

723
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 3: Right?

724
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: I think if you got the thing, strip it down,

725
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: you know, but what I listen on him? Yes, I'd

726
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: absolutely listen on him.

727
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: But is that the name you were thinking?

728
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 3: Now?

729
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 5: That was one of the names that I was going

730
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 5: to throw out at you because it's been kind of

731
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 5: thrown out there since. Yes, Davis got moved right, and

732
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 5: the name going back because my whole thing, I'm you honest,

733
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 5: I'm very torn, because I'm worried about I am too,

734
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 5: just having two studs and who are you playing with?

735
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 5: And Bob's left. I might play the sound for top

736
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 5: time if we have time. But Bobby Marks and Windhorst

737
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 5: on ESPN Show today, Bobby Marx is an old GM.

738
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 2: They're capologist guy.

739
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 1: Basically, it's great about knowing all the ins and outs

740
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: of salary and luxury tax and numbers fitting together and

741
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: all those things. He mentioned that he believed his belief

742
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: is by midnight tonight, if Giannis is going somewhere, the

743
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: framework will have to be in place, like all the

744
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 1: because the wolves, the wolves have to put like at

745
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 1: least three maybe four teams in those are the reports

746
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: right right there because they got to find picks to

747
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: try to get back to Milwaukee's wind Horse said, if

748
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: they want to trade him, they can trade him now,

749
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: he goes.

750
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 5: They have a deal from Miami they could take. They

751
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 5: have a deal from Golden States that they could take.

752
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 5: He did mention that the Wolves one is a little

753
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 5: bit more complicated because of all the moving parts. And

754
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 5: I'm very torn in I mean, I'm even looking at

755
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 5: like the Lakers with Luca and Lebron, and I know

756
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 5: Lebron's not what he once was, and he's and.

757
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: That's about to end, You're right, and he's, yeah.

758
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,880
Speaker 5: A decade older than honest, So it's not perfect. But

759
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 5: even with everybody's favorite third option, Austin Reeves, who just

760
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 5: came back last night and played pretty well, I think

761
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 5: like they've just been okay, right, Yes, and I know

762
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 5: it's just skinny Luca now, but it's hard when you

763
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 5: have two dudes that make that much money, and Giannis

764
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 5: eventually is going to need more because his contract's going

765
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 5: to be up. I think the same time, Ant says

766
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 5: at least eligible for extensions. I just worry about, like

767
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 5: Sam said, I worry about who's left to play with

768
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 5: these guys, and I'm sure Tim Conley that's not surprising

769
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 5: to him.

770
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not breaking. I will say this about him.

771
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: I don't think if he believes that they're two gutted

772
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 1: in terms of what they have to how they have

773
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: to satisfy Milwaukee, I don't.

774
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: Think he'll do it.

775
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: But there's every reason to be torn for the reason

776
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,479
Speaker 1: you just laid out. I want to know what else

777
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: you might get back. There's another piece I think that

778
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: mitigates it a little bit for me, But it's it's

779
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: not automatic, especially the way the league is caught up.

780
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: I've said, I admit it. Part of it for me

781
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 1: that I just like is that we're in the mix

782
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: of it for sure, that we're aggressively pursuing options in

783
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: that regard and and for all for that same reason,

784
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: I'll be very disappointed if we get to the trade deadline.

785
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 2: Tomorrow and there are no Wolves.

786
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 5: I really would. What are the other names that you had?

787
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 5: There's one player who also had a teammate traded recently.

788
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 5: Is this the one who wants to come here? Who

789
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 5: wants to come either here or the Timberwolves, does not

790
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 5: want to play in Sacramento who apparently is interested in him.

791
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: Okay, John Morant, God, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't

792
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: do it. Well, you could probably get him cheap.

793
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 5: Now that's been the's your comeback today is that Grizzly's

794
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 5: price for him has gone dramatically down.

795
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: I don't like him with Aunt. I I like I

796
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 1: like Giannis better with Aunt. I like Kyrie better with Aunt,

797
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 1: to be honest, But.

798
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 5: I guess is what if the price is just like

799
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 5: let's just say it's like random, right and something else

800
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 5: and I and I like Julius, but then Nas is

801
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 5: a starter. You've got point guard depth. All of a sudden,

802
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 5: you've got a guy I have to do.

803
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: I just haven't seen much from him when he has

804
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: played this year, and he didn't even look like the

805
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: same explosive guy. Now is that him because he's he's

806
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: he's pouting, he's checked out. I don't know. I mean

807
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: that's the old you sell you you buy low, uh

808
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: and and you think you're going to be able to

809
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: get him, you know, back to that place.

810
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: My gut is no, I wouldn't do it.

811
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 5: I've had to do some serious soul searching though the

812
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 5: last couple of days on Harden. First of all, because

813
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 5: I was kind of in the same spot you were at.

814
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: Yes, like, man, that would be interesting, and then Sam

815
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: made you realize that the error of that turns.

816
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 2: Out to be mood anyway, it does.

817
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 5: But Morant is the same thing where it's like, can

818
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 5: he figure it out? Because he's obviously I mean, since

819
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 5: we played them basically when they were the two seed,

820
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:01,320
Speaker 5: it's been a mess.

821
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:03,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has been. That's true, it's been a mess.

822
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 1: Somebody's telling us that Lonzo Ball that was the other

823
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: name I was going to bring up. He's gonna be

824
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: brought up by the jazz I. I have two things

825
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: to say. One, I don't know that I've seen him

826
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: play at all this year, so I don't know how

827
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: he's looked. I'm looking at his numbers. This was obviously

828
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 1: with Cleveland. Yep, he was averaging twenty one minutes a game,

829
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: only shooting thirty percent from the floor. He's ever been

830
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: a great shooter, twenty seven percent from three.

831
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 3: Uh.

832
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: Looking at his assist told he's averaging four point six

833
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: points and worthy assists three point nine assists. I in

834
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: the past have been intrigued by what I thought he

835
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: could do. The problem is is he's such a is

836
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: he such a liability offensively, you know, because one of

837
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 1: the frustrations with Mike has been.

838
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 2: Lately he's his shooting has gone down.

839
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: So are you getting somebody in that regard who's not

840
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 1: going to be able to help you either because he

841
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: can't shoot?

842
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 2: Obviously that would be cheap. I would consider it.

843
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 5: Yes, are the three names that I was It's funny

844
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 5: that two of them were via text because those were

845
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 5: just the three names that have kind of been buzzing

846
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 5: around wolves Twitter.

847
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 2: And then obviously the honest one is the big one

848
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 2: that's still going.

849
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I and look, I was gonna see Illinois because

850
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: they played at the University of Who's the kid?

851
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: He starts the A. He's still with the bulls right, Yes, Now,

852
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 2: I don't.

853
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: Think he's as good as would be as much of

854
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,399
Speaker 1: a help as Kobe White, but there are people who've

855
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 1: talked about him. There may be a couple other ones

856
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: below the radar. So yeah, the next I don't know

857
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: less than now twenty four hours is gonna be very

858
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: very interesting to see, and they're probably Windman's probably right

859
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: that if there's gonna be a deal. Because of its

860
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: complicated nature, it would have to be by the end

861
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: of this evening.

862
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 5: Top five Wolves play tonight, Wild play tonight, Gophers play tonight,

863
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 5: and most important, we've got JJ on JJ from the

864
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 5: Super Bowl