1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Fo night, Michael Brown joins me here, the former FEMA 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: director of talk show host Michael Brown. Brownie, no, Brownie, 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: You're doing a heck of a job. The Weekend with 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: Michael Brown broadcasting life from Denver, Colorado. It's the Weekend 5 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: of Michael Brown. Glad to have you joined the program today. 6 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: Text line, as usual is always open. It's three three 7 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: one zero three, keyword Mike or Michael. Go follow me 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: on X at Michael Brown USA. And as I said 9 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: in the last hour, for those of you that listen 10 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: on the podcast or that listen to me live during 11 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: the week we got we have some big changes to 12 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: start on Monday. I'm moving from my current station that 13 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: I've been on in Morning Drive for the past I 14 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: don't know six years or so over to back or 15 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: back to my original home station of KOA News Radio, 16 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: which is at eight fifty AM and ninety four point 17 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: one FM. So here's what you need to do. If 18 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: you listen to the podcast, and you listen to the 19 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: weekday and the weekend podcast, you don't need to do anything. 20 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: The podcast excuse me, will continue to be fed to 21 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: your RSS feed and you'll continue to be able to 22 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: download that without changing anything. However, if you stream or 23 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: you you listen to the program live, then you'll need 24 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: to switch from the station you currently have as a 25 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:18,559 Speaker 1: preset six thirty KHLW six thirty Am to eight fifty 26 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: am or ninety four point one FM. Or you can 27 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: just search on your iHeart app for the situation with 28 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: Michael Brown and when you find that, hit that preset 29 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:29,880 Speaker 1: and that will get you all five days of the 30 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: weekday program plus the weekend program. So we're pretty excited 31 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: to move over to the fifty thousand What Blowtorch, and 32 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: I hope you'll continue to follow us over there too. 33 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: There's a debate going on and it's being shaped, unfortunately 34 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,479 Speaker 1: by some stupid reporting in the Wall Street Journal over 35 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: the stand your ground laws, and I think it's the 36 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: debate itself is being shaped by very selective stats and 37 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: an incomplete context. So a rigorous kind of data conscious 38 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: analysis shows that stand your ground laws do not create 39 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: a license to kill, as many anti gunners would like 40 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: to claim, nor do stand your ground laws explain broader 41 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: homicide trends. And the practical purpose from a stand your 42 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: ground law is simply to remove any ambiguous retreat duties 43 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: that could endanger lawful self defense. We on Saturday on Saturdays, 44 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: on Friday afternoons. I'm sorry Friday mornings, but you'll still 45 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: be Friday mornings on Fridays. In the last segment, out 46 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: the last hour of our program, we do a segment 47 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: called Taxpayer Relief Shots, and in those we play a 48 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: couple of sound bites as introductions from Sheriff Grady down 49 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: in Florida and then a constable up in Canada, who 50 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: have completely opposite views of stand your ground. And of 51 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: course Sheriff Grady believes that if somebody's breaking into your home, 52 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: shoot them so they look like grated cheese is one 53 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 1: of the statements that he makes, whereas in Canada, the 54 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: local cop up there, the constable or whatever he's called, 55 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: basically says, you know, you really should if somebody's breaking 56 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: into your house, you really should try to hide, you know, 57 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: because it's more likely than not, which it's not very 58 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: comforting stats to me, but more likely than not you 59 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: might be able to escape. Yeah, he suggests you go 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: hide in the closet. Really, so the burglar has a 61 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: gun in his hand can find you in the closet, 62 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: and now you're trapped and you can just shoot you 63 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: in the closet. I mean, it's just ludicrous, but I 64 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: want you to understand. I want to try to convey 65 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: the legal architectures of self defense, no duty to you retreat, 66 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: and how stand your ground modifies the prosecutorial and the 67 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: evidentiary dynamics in a self defense case. I want to 68 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: think about. I wants to think about the Wall Street 69 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: Journal's claims about justifiable homicides and distinguish the rate and 70 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: scale context from the trend narratives that they try to claim. 71 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: I want to assess competing interpretations of deterrence versus escalation, 72 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: and obviously I identify confounders during the same timeframe that 73 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal uses, like police pullbacks, violent crime spikes, 74 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: reporting system changes, all of which go into the mix 75 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: of giving you the stats which anybody can manipulate to 76 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: mislead you about crime or stand your ground statistics. And 77 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: then let's go and apply some historical and doctrinal context, 78 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: including some testimony from the Second Amendment expert Professor John Lott, 79 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: and some high high profile cases. So let's get started 80 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 1: on this. So stand your ground standard ground removes any 81 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: duty to retreat for a person lawfully present who reasonably 82 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: believes deadly forces necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm. 83 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: Now they are a various state by state variations on 84 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 1: that there are different kinds of presumptions and immunities. But 85 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal's framing that I'll give you some 86 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: details to a minute implies that asserting self defense now 87 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: broadly enables killers to evade prosecution, while the underlying scale 88 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: of justifiable homicides remains very small relative to total homicides. 89 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: So the journal reported, The Wall Street Journal reported a 90 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: fifty nine percent rise in justifiable homicides by civilians like 91 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: you and me between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty four. 92 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: It was a large sample of cities and counties in 93 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: stand your ground states. And then they contrasted that fifty 94 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: nine percent rise in justifiable homicides with a sixteen percent 95 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: rise in total homicides in the same localities. They drew 96 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: upon the FBI submissions, and they focused on agencies with 97 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: Supposedly I couldn't really get into the detail. I couldn't 98 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: find the details of it, but supposed with some consistency 99 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: of reporting across that same period, the narrative headline in 100 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,679 Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal emphasizes that to put it in 101 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: the vernacular how I would speak. The Wall Street Journal 102 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: tries to claim that it's easier than ever to kill 103 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: somebody in America and get away with it. And the 104 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:52,239 Speaker 1: implication is that stand your ground laws have expanded legal 105 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: protections in public places and have complicated homicide charging by 106 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: prosecutors for cases that get framed as self defense. Well, 107 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: are they right? Are they wrong? Well, let's think about 108 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: a scale versus a trend, and what do we have. 109 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: We have a problem with the denominator because critics point 110 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 1: out that while percentages increased, the absolute numbers remain small, 111 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: peaking around two hundred justifiable homicides by private citizens like 112 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: you and me in twenty twenty three, which amounted to 113 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: about one percent of total homicides that year twenty twenty three. Well, 114 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: that undercuts the perception of some sort of large, policy 115 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: driven wave of excuse killings. This small scale raises questions 116 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: about the substantive policy effect and whether headline percentages mask 117 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: the limited absolute scope of these incidents across all jurisdictions, 118 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: not just stands your ground state. The data integrity is questionable, 119 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: very questionable, but we'll get into that data. Well, let 120 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: me give you just a hint. Coverage expansion and consistency. 121 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: For example, the National crime reporting stats that coverage increase 122 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: substantially between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty four. Well, that 123 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: is what prompted the Wall Street Journal to restrict their 124 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: analysis to agencies that consistently reported. Even then, year over year, 125 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: comparability still remained sensitive to reporting participation and classification practices. 126 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: In other words, you may say that, okay, I look 127 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: at I'm going to restrict my analysis to agencies that 128 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: consistently report. But even then, that consistent reporting can be 129 00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: varied based on how often did you report, what did 130 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: you report, and how did you classify things? When you 131 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 1: look at the macro violence trends, Well, I'll do those 132 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: after the break, because I really want you to understand 133 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: the macro violence trends and what it really shows is 134 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: the Weekend with Michael Brown text line three to three 135 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: one zero three, keyword micro Michael, go follow me on 136 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: X that Michael Brown, USA, what are the trends that's next? Hey, 137 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 1: welcome back to the Weekend with Michael Brown. Really glad 138 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 1: to have you joining me today. Be sure you go 139 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: follow me on xat Michael Brown USA. You can follow 140 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: me on Facebook and Instagram. Also, we're talking about stand 141 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: your ground laws, and the Wall Street Journals claim that 142 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: the more that we get stand your ground laws, that's 143 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: a causal link between stand your ground laws and an 144 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: increase in homicides, murder rates, and an increase in violence. 145 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 1: I think the Wall Street Journal is completely misleading you. 146 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: Let's look about let's think about the macro violence trends. 147 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: Now homicides surge nationally in twenty nine. Let's be carefully 148 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: about the definition of a homicide. The homicide is any 149 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: killing of another human being. Some are justified, some are unjustified. 150 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,520 Speaker 1: Some are, you know, murder where you actually outright murder somebody. 151 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: Some might be manslaughter where you know you drunk drive 152 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: and you don't deliberately kill somebody, but you know, because 153 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 1: you're an idiot driving drunk, you kill somebody. So just 154 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: homicides surge nationally in twenty twenty, and they remain relatively 155 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: high through twenty twenty three. So that complicates any casual 156 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 1: claim that stand your ground law would drive changes in 157 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 1: justified homicides independent of broader crime shifts. The Wall Street 158 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: Street Journal never shows many other broader crime shifts, and 159 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: then you have the whole context about policing reductions in 160 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: proactive policing, and this entire defund the cops climate after 161 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. Plausibly, I just use the word plausibly, specifically 162 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: plausibly increased reliance on private self defense, and that could 163 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: elevate justifiable homicide counts irrespective of stand your ground status. 164 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: So stand your ground addresses the ambiguity and the delay 165 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: introduced by the other standard, which is a duty to retreat, 166 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: especially the retroactive parsing of whether an appropriate retreat was 167 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: even possible, and that can kill a timely defensive action, 168 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: and that could also likewise empower an overly zealous charging decision. 169 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 1: So the doctrine of stand your ground does not legalize aggression. 170 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:01,719 Speaker 1: It applies where the defender is lawfully present and reasonably 171 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 1: perceives imminent, deadly and a deadly threat within the traditional 172 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: bounds of the words necessity and proportionality. So you know, 173 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: the George Zimmermann case and in Florida is frequently invoked, 174 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: But even a stand your ground critic would have to 175 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 1: acknowledge that his defense did not rest on stand your ground. Well, 176 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: why because on the facts presented in that case, retreat 177 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: was not an available option. If you're restrained on the 178 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: ground by the guy who's beating the crap out of you, 179 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: you can't retreat surrendering stand your ground analysis based on 180 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: the facts of that case. Stand your ground analysis becomes 181 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: irrelevant to the posture that the verdict or the what 182 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 1: the verdict might claim policymakers in media I think they 183 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: purposely conflate castle doctrine, public carey, and immunity provisions. But 184 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: the core stand your Ground change is the removal of 185 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: a retreat requirement in public spaces without negating the baseline 186 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: tests of immediacy, reasonableness, and unlawfulness of the aggressor's threat. 187 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: So let's think about escalation because there are different competing 188 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: policy narratives. One is escalation concern. Now, the Wall Street 189 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: Journal type critique suggests that stand your Ground increases legally 190 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: sanctioned killings. Those are the words they use, not mine. 191 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: They claim that stand your Ground increases legally sanctioned killings, 192 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: and they claim may incentivize a quick tempered confrontation ending 193 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 1: in death, and that there is minimal accountabilit and then 194 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: they cite a few individual cases where only survivor's accounts remains. Well, 195 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 1: that's not really a good basis to make a claim. 196 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: Then you have an issue of another policy narrative, and 197 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: that's deterrence and equity claims. Now, the proponents like myself 198 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: would argue that stand your ground best protects those at 199 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: the highest risk, often high crime neighborhoods. Why because it 200 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: reduces legal ambiguity. It ensures lawful defenders are not penalized 201 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: for simply failing to execute uncertain threats. You know, with 202 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: some research noting that there's very success rates among across 203 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: demographic particular demographic pairings, and there are obviously legal controversies 204 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: around racial disparities. Well, that just simply requires careful jurisdiction 205 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: specific analysis, which the Wall Street Journal does not do. 206 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: Let's think about the evidence. Let's appraise the evidence that 207 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal provides available. Counts a civilian ruled 208 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:11,560 Speaker 1: justifiable homicides remain low nationally compared to total homicides, even 209 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: during the peak in twenty twenty, we're at near two hundred. 210 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: So that limits the aggregate safety risk signal that you 211 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: might get when you look at stand your Ground alone. 212 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: The fifty nine percent increase in stand your Ground locales 213 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: between twenty nineteen twenty twenty four is a notable direction 214 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: of transtat but its causal linkage to stand your Ground 215 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: is weakened. It's weakened by contemporaneous national shifts in homicide, 216 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: gun ownership, enforcement patterns, reporting practices, as well as the 217 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: presence of similar increases outside stand your Ground states over 218 00:15:54,920 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: longer horizons longer periods of study. So the journal's methodology underscores, 219 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: I think a very basic challenge of data set maturation, 220 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:11,479 Speaker 1: meaning even careful filtering trying to get to consistent agencies 221 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: cannot fully neutralize the selection and the classification effects across 222 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: a very volatile crime period that they've chosen to look at. 223 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: There are very specific practical implications that prosecutors and defenders 224 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: of Stand your Ground have got to take into consideration, 225 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: because stand your Ground does not prevent charges where evidence 226 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: contradicts a self defense claim, whether it simply removes a 227 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: retreat requirement or a retreat prerequisite, and even in some 228 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: states supplies pre trial immunity or burden shifts that narrow 229 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: prosecutorial discretion. Only where the reasonable, the reasonableness standard happens 230 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: to get met, So prosecutors still have to evaluate the 231 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: eminence of the threat, the proportionality of the response, the 232 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: unlawful aggression, and the defender's lawful presence. So unfounded invocations 233 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: of I feared for my life get scrutinized against what's 234 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: the What does the physical evidence show, what are the 235 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: witnesses to say, what does the forensics indicate? And of 236 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: course we now have video everywhere, hence the low national 237 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: scale of justified rulings relative to overall homicides. Then you've 238 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: got the cabal. How does the media frame and time 239 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: these stories? And I think this one is a telltale sign. 240 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: It's the Weekend with Michael Brown. Text line three to 241 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: three one zero three. Keyword Mike or Michael go follow 242 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: me on ex that Michael Brown USA Stand your Ground 243 00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: continues Next tonight, Michael Brown joins me here the former 244 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: FEMA director of talk show host Michael Brown. Brownie, No, Brownie, 245 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: You're doing a heck of a job The Weekend with 246 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: Michael Brown. Welcome back to the Weekend with Michael Brown. 247 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: Glad to have you with me. I appreciate you tuning in. 248 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: Starting Monday. If you want to listen weekdays, it'll now 249 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: be from nine to noon mountain time on your iHeart app, 250 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: and you'll search for news radio KOA News Radio eight 251 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: fifty am ninety four point one FM. So if you're 252 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: going to listen live weekdays again KOA News Radio eight 253 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: fifty am ninety four point one FM nine to noon 254 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: mountain time, and you can also search for the situation 255 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:54,720 Speaker 1: with Michael Brown and you can continue to stream me 256 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: live if that's what you're want to do. Podcast that 257 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: remains the same. The podcast will still got fed to 258 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: you by well six days a week. It's like it 259 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: does now. Look we're talking about stand your Ground loss 260 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: and what set me off was an article from the 261 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal, And I would criticize the journal's focus 262 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: because what they do is they conflate a modest absolute 263 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:24,719 Speaker 1: increase with systemic impunity, and they overlook crime spikes and 264 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: these enforcement shifts, like you know, defund the cops that 265 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: had persisted since twenty twenty. So that presents an implicit, 266 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: implicitly kind of causal stand your ground narrative, but it's 267 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: based on insufficiently controlled observational data. I would frame the 268 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: timing of the article as being very politically suggestive because 269 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: they do so in a climate of polarized debate over 270 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:01,479 Speaker 1: self defense, polarized debate about policing and policing practices, and 271 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: what is unfortunately becoming an even more volatile discussion about 272 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: Second Amendment rights. So I would caution anyone who has 273 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: seen this article or hear stories about the article, against 274 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: these panic narratives that are completely untethered from absolute baselines 275 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 1: or doctrinal limits. So here's in key takeaways. Stand your 276 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: ground removes the duty to retreat, but it maintains a 277 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 1: core self defense gatekeeper imminence, necessity, proportionality, reasonable belief constrained 278 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: a lawful presence. Percentage increases in justifiable homicides since twenty nineteen, Yes, 279 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: there have been increases in justifiable homicides since twenty nineteen, 280 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: but that masks very small absolute numbers compared with total homicides. 281 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: So that weakens the claims of a widespread license to 282 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: kill effect, which is what the Wall Street Journal wants 283 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: you to believe. You know, I would just add this 284 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: as a footnote to my notes here. I hadn't thought 285 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: about this, so I just, you know, I say it 286 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: out loud, and I think of things. This idea that 287 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: gun owners are looking for opportunities to use their guns 288 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: is utter bull crap. Those of us who conceal carry, 289 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: those of us who carry in our cars, on our backpacks, 290 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: or on our ankles or waists, wherever you might conceal carry, 291 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:41,399 Speaker 1: we're not looking for an encounter. We're not looking for 292 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: an opportunity. We try to avoid those situations. But the 293 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: anti gun people will never comprehend that. They just they 294 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: think we're all a bunch of cowboys just out there 295 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: looking for an opportunity to shoot somebody. So that's why 296 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: these notations that the Wall Street Journal makes about an 297 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:09,719 Speaker 1: increase in justifiable homicides since twenty nineteen is not a 298 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: way to say that stand your ground laws have led 299 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,439 Speaker 1: to a license to kill effect. Now here's what's interesting. 300 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: When you look at the timeframe. Whenever you look at stats, 301 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: don't you ever think to yourself, why do they pick 302 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four? Have you thought about that? 303 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: Because the twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four window coincides 304 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: with major crying, policing, and reporting changes, So that makes 305 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: causal attributions to stand your ground alone methodologically fragile. Unless 306 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: you can show me stronger controls and broader comparative baselines, 307 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 1: that window is suspicious to me at face value. Now, 308 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: policy evaluation really ought to focus on net safety effects, 309 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: equal protection concerns, and of course clarity for citizens and prosecutors, 310 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: rather than the stupid headline driven inference from limited scales 311 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: and confounded trends, which is what the Wall Street Journal 312 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 1: is doing. You know, I've said I'm an avid reader 313 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: of the Wall Street Journal, but I know what I'm reading. 314 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,719 Speaker 1: I love the editorial page, I take the reporting page 315 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: with a grain of salt. How should, for example, once 316 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: you think about a few things, how should agencies handle 317 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: stand your ground cases when only the survivor account exists? 318 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: And what evidentiary thresholds should trigger charges despite a self 319 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: defense claim. That's why I often argue to people who 320 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: have a concealed carry or live in a stand your 321 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: ground jurisdiction, you need to carry insurance because all of 322 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: those things evidentiary thresholds may or may not trigger charges 323 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: against you. You need to consider that in advance of 324 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 1: ever using your gun. So that's why you should go 325 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 1: to one of the many organizations that provide self defense insurance, 326 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: legal insurance. You should see if you can attach it 327 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: to your homeowners. You should see how you can find 328 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: it independently. But you should get it because a standard 329 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: ground case where only your account exists, your story is 330 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: the only one that exists because there's no video. The 331 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: perpetrator is dead, he's bleeding out in your living room. Yes, 332 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: your story will be the main story, but that doesn't 333 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 1: guarantee that a prosecutor, a zealous prosecutor, isn't going to 334 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 1: find something, or most importantly, you're going to say something. 335 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: And I know it's hard. Why do I know this 336 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 1: because I've defended some standard ground cases. It's very, very hard. 337 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: After all, the adrenaline and is flowing through your body 338 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 1: because someone's just broken into your house, whether they were 339 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: carrying a gun or not. You had to make a 340 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: split second decision because your kids and your family were 341 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: upstairs asleep. You heard the door crash, you heard people 342 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: stumbling over furniture as they're coming into your home. You 343 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: make a split second decision, and you legitimately, lawfully legally 344 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: exercise your stand your ground rights. You lawfully legally exercise 345 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 1: your natural, god given right of self defense. So you 346 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: have morally and legally complied with everything, and then you 347 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:42,160 Speaker 1: open your mouth because the cops asking you what happened, 348 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: or prosecutor or a detective shows up and asks what happened, 349 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 1: and the natural tendency is to say, well, you know, 350 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: I was upstairs asleep and this guy broke in and 351 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: I will you know? Then that leads to other questions, 352 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: how do you know it was this guy? You know? 353 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: What did you hear? You never know what you say 354 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: that may cause a little bit of doubt that gets 355 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: put into a police report. And I'm not saying that 356 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: the cops are not on your side. They probably are 357 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: on your side, but anything you say can and may 358 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: be used against you. So keep your mouth shut. And 359 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: it's hard to do, and it's really hard to do 360 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 1: when you don't know. Oh my gosh, who am I 361 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: gonna call? I need a lawyer here. I just because 362 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: remember this thing about what happened. In the most naked terms, 363 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: you just killed another human being. Now I know there's 364 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 1: all the other factors. You killed a human being that 365 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: was breaking into your home. Well, what evidence is there 366 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 1: of that? Oh, you just killed another human being that 367 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: was threatening you, and you had a reasonable fear for 368 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 1: your life. Okay, you know that. What evidence is there 369 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: of that? You know that you just killed somebody in 370 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: your home because you felt an imminent fear for your 371 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: family and your children upstairs? Really they were upstairs, what 372 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,479 Speaker 1: danger was there to them? And by the way, you 373 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: killed him in the in the foyer of your home. 374 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: He didn't make it into the living room. All of 375 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: those are factors that a prosecutor and a LEO is 376 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: going to take into a into account when they're putting 377 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: together their report, even if they believe everything you say. 378 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: But then a prosecutor looks at it and says, hmm, 379 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: I don't think that was necessary. You could have, I mean, 380 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,399 Speaker 1: come up with any number of excuses, but a prosecutor could. 381 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: I'm not saying all prosecutors this way. I'm just simply 382 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:46,120 Speaker 1: saying an overzealous prosecutor may find something you said, They 383 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: may find a little bit of evidence somewhere, and suddenly 384 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: you're facing second or third degree murder charges or manslaughter charges, 385 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 1: all because you open your stupid mouth. So I know it. 386 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,360 Speaker 1: You know again, I understand the adrenalines flowing. You've got 387 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: a body on your front porch or in your house. 388 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: Your kids and your spouse are all hovering upstairs, huddling 389 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: together because they're scared. They've been brought down because obviously 390 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 1: they might be witnesses. The cops want to know from 391 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: them what happened. Blah blah blah blah. My advice is, 392 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: get a lawyer there asap now. Decent cops who understand 393 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: in a self defense situation, you're right, as they should 394 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: in any case, but particularly in those situations that you 395 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: want someone present. You want someone present to guide the questions, 396 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 1: someone who can filter the questions, someone can who can 397 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: tell you don't answer that, or it's okay to answer that, 398 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: or let's go talk and you tell me what happened first, 399 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: and then based on what you tell me, I'll tell 400 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: you whether or not you can say the same thing 401 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: to the cops. Decent cops will understand that. Now you 402 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: may them off because they're in a hurry. It's late 403 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: at night, they were just at their shift change. They 404 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: got now they got a dead body on their hand. 405 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 1: They got to fill out all the reports. But YadA, YadA, YadA, 406 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: all of that goes on. But again, you have to 407 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: protect yourself the cops in general are not your friends 408 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: in those situations. They're trying to figure out what happened. 409 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,840 Speaker 1: Now they may already have in their mind, Hey, you 410 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: know what, this should not This should not be a charge. 411 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: There shouldn't be no. In fact, some of the taxpayer 412 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: relief shots that we play, you'll hear the the public 413 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 1: information officers saying and no charges are going to be 414 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: filed now. Sometimes I wonder on what basis they make 415 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: that statement, because a prosecutor may have not yet looked 416 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: at it, or maybe a prosecutor has said no, no, no, 417 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: we're not gonna We're not gonna file charges here, get 418 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: a lawyer, get insurance. And if you don't believe me, 419 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: I would encourage you to go google Wall Street Journal 420 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: about stand your Ground and see what kind of evidence 421 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: they're showing, because the evidence they tried to show indicates 422 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: that stands your Ground to them, or at least to 423 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: those reporters, is a license to kill and you and 424 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: I know that it's not. I'll be right back. Welcome 425 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: back to the Weekend with Michael Brown. Not have you 426 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: tune in, appreciate your listening. One thing that I found 427 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,640 Speaker 1: interesting that was not in the Wall Street Journal was 428 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: the old trope that stand your ground laws are racist. 429 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: You know, they tried to pull every other rap it 430 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: out of the hat, but they didn't pull that one out. 431 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 1: Back in twenty thirteen, the president of the Crime Prevention 432 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: Research Senator Senate Center, John Lott, testified before the Senate 433 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: Judiciary Committee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Human Rights, 434 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 1: where he addressed this flaw in the logic that goes 435 00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, even in blue states, Blue 436 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: states recognize that poor minorities who live in dangerous neighborhoods 437 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: stand to gain the most by these laws. That's based 438 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: on the quote from Barack Obama around two thousand and 439 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: four when he was then a state senator. Well, John 440 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: Lott testified as follows. Apparently forgotten are the reasons that 441 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: stand your ground laws exist. They originated to solve the 442 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:43,479 Speaker 1: real problems with the requirement to retreat. The required delay 443 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: to retreat sometimes prevented people from defending themselves. Requiring an 444 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: appropriate retreat adds additional confusion to those defending themselves, and 445 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 1: the concept is left to prosecutors to define. For the 446 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: prosecutor to define what it means to retreat and how 447 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: far and how quickly he said or he testified. Sometimes 448 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: Overzealo's prosecutors claimed that people who defended themselves could have 449 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: retreated even further. And he says, despite the ruckus over 450 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: the law that George Zimmerman, after the George Zimmerman acquittal, 451 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: his defense team never raised the stand your ground law 452 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: as a defense, and that should be not that should 453 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: not be a surprise. After all, if Zimmerman was on 454 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: his back and Trayvon Martin held him down, as the 455 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: forensic and eyewitness evidence indicated, Zimmerman had no option to retreat, 456 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: so the law was completely irrelevant. And then he went 457 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: on to say that the real measure of stand your 458 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: ground laws should be the number of lives that have 459 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: been preserved, not lost, but preserved. And he told the 460 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: Senate this, with so many states having these laws for 461 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: so many years without controversy, possibly the most surprising fact 462 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: is that no state that has adopted such a law 463 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: has ever rescinded it. The only way that we can 464 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,400 Speaker 1: evaluate stand your ground laws is by looking at their 465 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: net effect on lives saved. As one commentator said, you 466 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: have to wonder why the Wall Street Journal is even 467 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: bringing this up. What does it have to gain by 468 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:32,680 Speaker 1: fomenting fear about Americans who have Second Amendment rights defending 469 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: themselves with deadly force in a climate where left wing 470 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: violence is metastasizing. One can only speculate about the Wall 471 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: Street Journal's motivations. But the timing sure does seem suspicious. 472 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: I would quibal that as follows. The timing's not suspicious 473 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: to me at all. It was probably just on their 474 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: rotation of, well, we haven't covered the story in a while, 475 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: we need to cover And if we go back and 476 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: we cherry picked the data, we can show there's been 477 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: a spike in crime, and we can show there's been 478 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: a spike in homicides that if we just focus on 479 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: the homicides and then try to correlate that without any 480 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: sort of causation to stand your ground laws, then we 481 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,879 Speaker 1: can do an article that basically says stand your ground 482 00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: laws has resulted in more people dying, But don't issue 483 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: the race thing right now, because we don't really have 484 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 1: anything about race. It's how the cabal operates. It's a 485 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: great way of how even as storied a publication as 486 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal has an agenda, and that agenda 487 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: is to cause people to have who have preconceived notions, 488 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:49,480 Speaker 1: for their confirmation bias to set in, and for people 489 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: to think to themselves, Oh, you know, I read this 490 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: story in the Wall Street Journal the other day and 491 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: talked about how crime is up and the number homicides 492 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: are up, and then the number of states that are 493 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,600 Speaker 1: adopting stand your ground laws is beginning to increase. Nobody's 494 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: rescinding it, and so crime's going up, and so therefore 495 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: it must be that stand your ground laws or letting 496 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: all these you know, wild ass cowboys just go out 497 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: and just shoot them up. Se okay, corral out there. 498 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 1: If you I'm not saying, well, I am saying that 499 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: that's exactly kind of how some people with confirmation bias think. 500 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,000 Speaker 1: But if you're watching the news and you watch what's 501 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: happening with the attacks on ice agents, if you watch 502 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: the news and you see what crowds are doing in 503 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: terms of surrounding cars turning over cars, whether they be 504 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: cop cars or privately owned vehicles, doesn't make any difference 505 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: to me. You watch that, and if you're not thinking 506 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: to yourself, how do I get out of that situation? 507 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,840 Speaker 1: And if I can't get out of that situation, what 508 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: do I do to defend myself? And if you're not 509 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: thinking about any of those things, shame on you. But 510 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,720 Speaker 1: if you're not thinking about any of those things because 511 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: you're not willing to defend yourself, then you'll end up 512 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: being a victim. You'll absolutely end up being a victim. Now, 513 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: they're alternatives. You don't have to you don't have to 514 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: own the clock, you don't have to own a forty 515 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: four mag you don't have to own, you know, a 516 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: ten gage, shotgun, keeping your car, you don't have to 517 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: do any of that. They are all sorts of non 518 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: lethal options available. To the point of the entire segment is, oh, 519 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: we're now going to start trying to draw some sort 520 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: of causal effect between standing your ground laws and the 521 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: number of homicides, which I think is fatally flawed. But 522 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: we're going to raise the issue of violence, violence which 523 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 1: is really out of control in this country. And my 524 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 1: question simply is are you prepared? So weekend with Michael 525 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,720 Speaker 1: Brown text lines always open three three, one zero three, 526 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: keyword Michael, Michael, be right back.