1 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: From WBZ News Radio in Boston. This is New England Weekend. 2 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Each and every week right here, we come together, we 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: talk about all the topics important to you and the 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: place where you live. Happy New Year to you. It's 5 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: great to be back. I'm Nicole Davis. The state of 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: Massachusetts is in a housing crisis. That is a statement 7 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: many people agree on, from state officials to housing experts 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: to those who want to buy the combination of high 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: prices and low stock is putting pressure on middle and 10 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: low income families. Many are being forced to simply pack 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: up and leave, even if they want to stay. Some 12 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: do end up staying, but just abandon the dream of 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: buying their own home. And it's something that most Americans 14 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: not too long ago considered to be a rite of passage. 15 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: This is a problem impacting owners and renters the entire state, 16 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: not just the Boston area, and it's something the Legalized 17 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: Starter Homes campaign claims it's got an answer for with 18 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: a proposed ballot question. To learn more about this, Andrew 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: mccoola is a housing fellow at the Pioneer Institute for 20 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: a Public Policy. He is leading this campaign outside of work, 21 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: and he's here to talk to us about it now, So, Andrew, 22 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. Let's start with 23 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: your name here, because legalized starter homes starter homes are 24 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 1: not illegal. We have a lot of them here in Massachusetts. 25 00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: Why did you choose that phrasing? 26 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean legalized starter homes is a bit of 27 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 2: a snappy title. Really, it's about making the starter homes, 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 2: you know, more viable because right now, you need a 29 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 2: lot of land in most municipalities in Massachusetts to build 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: a single family home, and in order to kind of 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: clear the land value that large lots create, that requires 32 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: building big McMansions on these lots if you are kind 33 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 2: of using the logic of a developer. So by creating 34 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: smaller lots, you know, we're reducing the cost of homes 35 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: for buyers and making it so that developers don't have 36 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 2: to build giant mc mansions just to justify the cost 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: of assembling so much land. So you know, there are 38 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 2: definitely laws in place that prevent that from happening now, 39 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,839 Speaker 2: but you know, making starter homes viable again is the goal. 40 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: Well, of course, Massachusetts, we're in a housing crisis. We 41 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: have been for several years and it's only getting worse. 42 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: Not just the Boston area either, but like western mass 43 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: and southern New Hampshire Providence area, all of these areas 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: are struggling with a severe lack of housing, and if 45 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: there is housing, it's really difficult for young people and 46 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: young families to afford it. You're somebody who works very 47 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: closely in this field. If you could kind of break 48 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: down some of the factors driving this, I think that 49 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 1: would be helpful as well. 50 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like you said, Massachusetts was named the 51 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:57,119 Speaker 2: hardest state in the country for young adults to buy 52 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: a home a few months ago. The middle class ass 53 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: is shrinking here because the cost of housing has exploded 54 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: since the Great Recession. Seniors are trapped in their suburban 55 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 2: homes because they don't have somewhere nearby to downsize, and 56 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 2: as a result, a record number of Massachusetts residents, especially 57 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: young adults ages you know, maybe mid twenties to mid thirties, 58 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 2: are leaving, hurting our economy and separating families. And there 59 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: have been polls quite recently that show that about a 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: third of massachoots residents are considering leaving and cost of 61 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: living is their greatest concern. The Healy administration says we 62 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 2: need to build two hundred and twenty two thousand homes 63 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 2: between twenty twenty five and twenty thirty five to meet demand, 64 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: control costs, support young families remain competitive economically, and I 65 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: think that you know, doing that in part with family 66 00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: oriented housing, you know, is really important. And that's exactly 67 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: what we're trying to do by making starter homes viable. 68 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: Again, So what exactly constitutes a starter home at this point? 69 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: This is not nineteen fifty five, It's not like the 70 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: starter homes of our grandparents or parents. Are we talking 71 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: about an EIGHTYU like a one bed, a three bed, like? 72 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: Who is this aimed for? Exactly? 73 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we don't have a lot of those 74 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 2: thresholds in the law we're trying to pass, in part 75 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: because it's a little context dependent. President land values depends on, 76 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: you know, the demographics of the particular community. But a 77 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: starter homes a small owner occupied home intended for you know, 78 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 2: first time buyers or downsizing seniors, low maintenance. And the 79 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 2: threshold that exists for the voluntary starter home zoning that 80 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 2: the state already has Chapter forty y is eighteen hundred 81 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: and fifty square feet. And I think that about half 82 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: of them have to be three bedrooms at least in 83 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:11,039 Speaker 2: the statute, but that should vary in practice. 84 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: When you're talking about young professionals, you're talking about young families, 85 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: you know, maybe with one child, who only need one 86 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: or two bedrooms. I mean, people would say, well, I 87 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: didn't get help from the state to get my starter home, right, 88 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: and why don't you just pull yourself up by your 89 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: bootstraps and so on and so forth. Well, what would 90 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: you say to somebody who says that to you. 91 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not trying to make it be any easier 92 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: to buy a home in the suburbs than it was 93 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 2: forty years ago. I'm just trying to make it not 94 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: be very very much harder. And I think we need 95 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 2: to be realistic about what that takes. And you know, 96 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,039 Speaker 2: I've been accused of social engineering and all the rest. 97 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 2: My response is, you know, the status quo is social engineering, 98 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: just of a different type. Right to say that everyone 99 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 2: should have half an acre of land and if you 100 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: can't afford that, too bad. So I think, you know, 101 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 2: these reforms are going to open up opportunities for folks 102 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: that they wouldn't otherwise have had. But you know, framing 103 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: it in terms of entitlement or what have you. Is 104 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: also wrong headed because it doesn't take into account you 105 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: know that we've gone as a nation from you know, 106 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: a three to one home price to income ratio to 107 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 2: like a six to one price to income ratio in 108 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: the last fifty. 109 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: Years, right, And it doesn't help too. I was reading 110 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: an article recently about how a lot of foreign investors 111 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 1: are coming in and buying up the stock that we 112 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 1: already have and that's being built. So when you have 113 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: a new apartment building and they have affordable housing in 114 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: the building, but yeah, there's only a couple of affordable 115 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 1: units and then most of the rest of the building 116 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: is bought up by foreign investors and left empty for 117 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 1: most of the year. That doesn't help the situation either. 118 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it's literally housing stocks sitting there that we 119 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: just can't use. 120 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, that might be a little different because it's probably 121 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 2: mostly rentals that applies to. But what I'd say is 122 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: research that I've seen finds that generally institutional investors lag 123 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: but don't read home price increases, so they might be 124 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 2: taking advantage of the problem. But the root of the 125 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: problem is we don't have enough homes in general. 126 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: Okay, well, then let's talk specifically about what your campaign 127 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: is all about. By the way, your campaign hitting a 128 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: huge milestone recently getting enough signatures to possibly get on 129 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: the ballot. If Beacon Hill doesn't do anything with it, 130 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: but lay it out for me exactly what you all 131 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: are looking to get done. 132 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,200 Speaker 2: Yes, so we would make it legal to build single 133 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 2: family homes on lots as small as five thousand square 134 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 2: feet about the size of an NBA basketball court in 135 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: areas of the state with public sewer and water services. 136 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 2: Each one of those lots would also need to have 137 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: fifty feet of frontage along the street, meaning there's a 138 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 2: contiguous kind of length of you know, lot lined along 139 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: the street where you can have access for dryways and 140 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: things like that. Okay, so it's taken. And the big 141 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: change there again is most cities and towns in Massachusetts 142 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: require much more than five thousand square feet to build 143 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: a single family home. 144 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: What is the reasoning for that? Do they say they 145 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: don't want things to be too crowded or like, what 146 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: is the reasoning behind needing that much room to build 147 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: these homes? 148 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: I mean, historically it may have been about infrastructure, but 149 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 2: most of the communities that are in the immediate Boston 150 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: area today are fully sewered or almost fully sewered, and 151 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: so that tends to you know, fade away a bit. 152 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: And of course, course we increasingly have regional infrastructure, especially 153 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,359 Speaker 2: since the middle of the last century in terms of transportation. 154 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: But yeah, I think there are a lot of people 155 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: who are going to make excuses about you know, traffic 156 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 2: or school capacity. My take is, you know, by concentrating 157 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:28,599 Speaker 2: in areas with this utilities infrastructure, but we're also concentrating 158 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: in areas close to major job centers and transit and 159 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: places that will minimize the traffic problem. And then you know, 160 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:41,160 Speaker 2: fully two thirds of public school districts in Massachusetts have 161 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 2: seen declining enrollment in the past ten years, especially since 162 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 2: COVID and I so I think that there's more capacity 163 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 2: in a lot of schools than people would realize. And 164 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 2: it's important to note that this development, you know, is 165 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 2: going to be for or six or eight homes at 166 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: a time, and so I think that that level of 167 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 2: incrementalism will give some talents the ability to plan ahead 168 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 2: more so than if it were three or four or 169 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 2: five hundred. 170 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that makes sense, because we see a lot 171 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: of this pushback. I think with the MBTA Communities Act, 172 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: where a lot of people are nervous about zoning in 173 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: their towns because they say, we don't want these massive 174 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: apartment buildings showing up in what normally is a small, 175 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: bucolic little town. So do you think that that's where 176 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 1: some of the anxiety might come in. 177 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,960 Speaker 2: I think that those arguments are going to be prevalent 178 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 2: and pretty whenever you're talking about new development. But I 179 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 2: think we really have tried again by focusing it on 180 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: smaller scale subdivisions and tying the housing capacity to the 181 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 2: location of critical infrastructure, We've tried to get ahead of 182 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 2: those concerns a little bit and also emphasize that you know, 183 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 2: you can react, you can you can be proactive on 184 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 2: some of these things, maybe in a way that you 185 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: weren't before, especially with the infrastructure. Right, if this is 186 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: the the kicking the pants, some towns need to be 187 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: more proactive about, you know, encouraging growth in the long run. 188 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 2: I think that's a good thing because our state is 189 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 2: growing and you know, now we just need kind of 190 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,319 Speaker 2: the support for it that supports a regional economy and 191 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 2: you know, treats the economy as regional when you know 192 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: it means towns need to adapt as well as when 193 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: you know they get benefits from jobs nearby and other things. 194 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: More property tax revenue is probably not a bad thing 195 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: at this point. I mean, right, if you want to 196 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: talk about just the fiscal benefits it could have for 197 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: a community, some people might say, you know, my property 198 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: value is going to go down because you're bringing in 199 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: big buildings and that's going to impact my research I value. 200 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: But on the other end, more property taxes. People talk 201 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 1: all the time about oh, we don't have enough to 202 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: pay for schools, we don't have enough to pay for roads. 203 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean directionally, I've heard it both ways. You 204 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 2: know you're going to like increased service requirements and that 205 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: means my tax bill is going to go up. And 206 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 2: you know you're going to build a bunch of housing 207 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 2: like mine near mind, which is going to decrease my 208 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 2: property values. But I think the magnitude is something that 209 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: gets a little loss there. And empirically, again, when we're 210 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: talking about a few homes in a time, I don't 211 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 2: see the kind of the level of catastrophic rhetoric matching 212 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: the effect, especially when in the last five or six 213 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: years we've seen property values go up forty percent already 214 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 2: hypothetically under Prop two and a half. A lot of 215 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 2: towns do need to rely on new growth in order 216 00:12:54,720 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 2: to grow their tax base. So it's really a matter 217 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 2: of city and town management. How this is going to 218 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: affect existing homeowners' property taxes. It's not an I wouldn't 219 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 2: I've heard again, I've heard it all. This is automatically 220 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 2: going to raise people's water bills, et cetera, et cetera. 221 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 2: I think it's much more complicated than that, and more 222 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: contact dependon. 223 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: Well, then let's talk about what comes next, because again, 224 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: you just hit this signature threshold. We're kind of narrowing 225 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: down our ballot questions here. What comes next for your campaign? 226 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, so right now, it's going before the legislature. They 227 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 2: have until early May to either act on it or not. 228 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 2: We anticipate they will ultimately take no action, send it 229 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: back to us for a second round of signature gathering, 230 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: and then we'll have until I believe early July to 231 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 2: send another round of signatures to the Secretary of State's office, 232 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 2: and we should know by early July whether we're on 233 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 2: the ballot. 234 00:13:57,880 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: Okay, I mean that's going to be a big deal, 235 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: no small fee, because even just getting to where you are, 236 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: that's a lot of signatures and a lot of walking around. 237 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're trying to you know, expand opportunities for 238 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 2: folks to you know, thrive in Massachusetts, a new generation 239 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: of homeowners and that's you know, no small feet, as 240 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 2: you said. 241 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: Absolutely So if somebody is interested in learning more, perhaps 242 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: they want to show their support, they have questions for you. 243 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: How can people connect? 244 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: Yes, our website is legal at www dot legalized charterhomes 245 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: dot com. Cont Information for campaign members is on the site. 246 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: Follow Our social media links are also on our website 247 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 2: if you want to be more deeply involved. Again, we 248 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 2: have content information in that vein on the site and 249 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: we hope to have more updates as we get deeper 250 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: into the signature gathering process. But we will need kind 251 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: of a new petition form, so the old one from 252 00:14:57,040 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 2: the first round of signature gathering is no longer. 253 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: Okay, And this I feel like I have to mention 254 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: this is not just a Boston area thing. This is 255 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: like all over the state. If you're listening in Springfield 256 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: or Worcester South Coast or Merrimack Valley, this is something 257 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: that impacts everybody around the state. 258 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely heard it argue that the Cape is 259 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: the part of the state with the worst housing crisis, 260 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: and I haven't quite done the legwork to quantify that myself, 261 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: but you know that's a valid argument. 262 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard it. Okay, Well, you know, Andrew, this 263 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: is a really interesting stuff. Thank you so much for 264 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: coming on the show and again legalized starterhomes dot com. 265 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: Good luck to you. 266 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Nicole. 267 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: I hope you have a safe and healthy weekend. Stay warm. 268 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: Join us again next week for another edition of the show. 269 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: I'm Nicole Davis from WBZ News Radio on iHeartRadio.