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Speaker 1: It's Nightside with Ray on w BZ, Boston's news radio.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, welcome back everyone. We're changing topics. I

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Speaker 2: had a guest on a couple of weeks ago, who,

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Speaker 2: to be honest with you, was very interesting and I've

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Speaker 2: asked him to come back. He is a doctor, Guy Lynch.

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Speaker 2: He's a clinical psychologist, and we talked with him a

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Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago about his new book called Mind

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Speaker 2: over Grind, which is a great name for a book,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Winch, welcome back to Nightside.

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Speaker 3: Thank you very much for having me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the book deals with basically allowing yourself to disconnect

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Speaker 2: from your work as I as I recall a lot

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Speaker 2: of people feel that work has hijacked their life and

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Speaker 2: that they're not working forty hours a week, they're working

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Speaker 2: forty or hours a week or more and they're thinking

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Speaker 2: about work one hundred hours a week. Is that the

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Speaker 2: premise of the book? Do I recall that correctly?

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Speaker 4: Yes?

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Speaker 5: And I wouldn't say that you allowing yourself to disconnect

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Speaker 5: from work that's actually effortful. It's difficult these days to

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Speaker 5: disconnect from work because work does kind of hijack your

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Speaker 5: thoughts off the work. It hijacks your relationships, It kind

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Speaker 5: of seeps into your personal life. So you actually have

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Speaker 5: to make some effort to disconnect, and people don't know

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Speaker 5: how to do that. So that's one of the ideas

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Speaker 5: of the book, is that you know, when you're at home,

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Speaker 5: you need to be able to disconnect and there are

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Speaker 5: certain techniques you can use to do it.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we want to talk about those techniques because I

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Speaker 2: think that a lot of people can identify this with

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Speaker 2: this situation. But let's put it in some perspective. Has

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Speaker 2: it become more difficult to disconnect from work and to

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Speaker 2: enjoy your life? Enjoy your job, but also I assume

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Speaker 2: in the perfect world you enjoy your job when you're

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Speaker 2: doing your job, but then you enjoy your life when

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Speaker 2: you're not doing your job. Is that the formula we

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Speaker 2: should strive for.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, in the perfect world, that would be terrific. It's difficult,

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Speaker 5: it's difficult to achieve. You know, stress and burnout are

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Speaker 5: at all time highs over the past few years in

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Speaker 5: the workplace, they're just going up. And now we have

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Speaker 5: of the past few years also the introduction of this

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Speaker 5: uncertainty from AI in many, many sectors, so many, many jobs,

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Speaker 5: and people are feeling the insecurity of like, will I

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Speaker 5: have a job in two or three five years time?

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Speaker 5: Will my profession be viable? Will professions adjacent to me

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Speaker 5: be viable? What's happening in the marketplace, And that's creating

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Speaker 5: also a lot of additional stress. And when we get

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Speaker 5: really stressed out at work, when there's a lot of strain,

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Speaker 5: there's a lot of pressure, then it's very difficult to

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Speaker 5: just contain it and leave it at the office at

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Speaker 5: the end of the day, wherever your office is, or

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Speaker 5: if you're working from home, when you close your laptop,

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Speaker 5: and we tend to bring those pressures home with us

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Speaker 5: in all kinds of ways, many of which we're not

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Speaker 5: aware of.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that you've introduced another topic which is

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Speaker 2: equally important, and people might want to talk about both

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Speaker 2: of these. The first topic that I knew we were

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Speaker 2: going to talk about was how you can somehow you know,

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Speaker 2: close your laptop at home or leave the office. And

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Speaker 2: I don't know if the proper phrases leave work behind

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Speaker 2: or not. But then when you add in all of

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Speaker 2: these rumors about artificial intelligence and the projections as to

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Speaker 2: what impact it's going to have on different people's jobs.

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Speaker 2: I have friends of mine who are telling me that

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Speaker 2: we haven't even begun to understand the enormity of the

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Speaker 2: impact that AI potentially has across the workforce. Now, when

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Speaker 2: I heard that from my friend, I thought, well, that's

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Speaker 2: off into the future. But he's telling me, no, we're

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Speaker 2: on the cusp of this. Sounds to me like you

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Speaker 2: see it as a similar immediate concern.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I do think it's an immediate concern in the

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Speaker 5: next few years. I don't think we're talking about ten

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Speaker 5: years time. You can see in the news now these

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Speaker 5: cuts you know from Amazon, sixteen thousand people in month

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Speaker 5: swath and the really big cuts are happening in certain chectors,

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Speaker 5: and they're going to be more of them as AI developed,

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Speaker 5: as these large language models become more competent. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I'm a psychologist. My job is on the engaged list

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Speaker 5: at some point as well, right, I mean as it

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Speaker 5: is now. If I go on holiday for a week,

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Speaker 5: I come back and people say, no, I was fine,

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Speaker 5: I just chatted with chat GPT while you're away, And

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Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, that's terrific, you know, like so and so.

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Speaker 2: I think that if someone thinks the chat GTP. Now correct,

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Speaker 2: I stand to be corrected, doctor, You know much more

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Speaker 2: about this than I do. But whenever I call a

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Speaker 2: company and the company uh says, hi, I'm your assistant,

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Speaker 2: how can I help you? And if I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: get information from the company over whatever, whether it's going

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Speaker 2: on a trip somewhere or buying a product, I immediately

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Speaker 2: say I would like to speak with a human being,

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Speaker 2: and they frustrate me at every turn, and in most

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Speaker 2: cases I then will find a different vendor to deal with.

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Speaker 2: Are we too lazy as Americans not to assert our

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Speaker 2: own independence and say to these bots and these chat

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Speaker 2: e TP, g GP GPT assistance, you know you're you're

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Speaker 2: a bot, you're automatic. Why are we so lazy as

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Speaker 2: human beings not to protect our own jobs and help

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Speaker 2: other people have protect their jobs.

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Speaker 5: When you're talking about well, look, but when you're talking

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Speaker 5: about like calling a customer service line or calling a

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Speaker 5: product line.

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Speaker 2: Or as I call it, customer disservice, go ahead.

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Speaker 5: Doctor, right, But then look, but the idea is there

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Speaker 5: that you know you vote with your feet, in other words,

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Speaker 5: you to get frustrated by someone's customer service, you will

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Speaker 5: no longer be a customer, and companies are aware that

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Speaker 5: they lose a lot of customers, and the customer attrition

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Speaker 5: happens because it's cost them so much to acquire a

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Speaker 5: customer that it behooves.

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Speaker 3: Them to try and keep the customers they have.

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Speaker 5: If there's going to be a big backlash, then you're

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Speaker 5: going to start seeing companies advertise as when you call us,

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Speaker 5: you will always get a human. In other words, there's

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Speaker 5: a pendulum here, and as AI starts to take over

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Speaker 5: in certain ways, there will be a backlash I anticipate,

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Speaker 5: you know, in certain industries of like, well, actually we're

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Speaker 5: a premium because we will guarantee you contact with the

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Speaker 5: human for those people who really insist, you know, on it,

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Speaker 5: you know, in that way. But I don't think it's

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Speaker 5: about us being lazy. I think it's about companies trying

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Speaker 5: to think of the bottom line. And if there's a

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Speaker 5: machine that can be trained to do the computer can

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Speaker 5: be trained to do, If an AI and agent can

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Speaker 5: be trained to do what humans do and you know,

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Speaker 5: do it better or as well even and for a

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Speaker 5: fraction of the cost, that's where they're going to go.

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Speaker 2: I understand the marketplace, and I understand the reality I

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Speaker 2: understand capitalism. I'm pretty smart in those areas, and I

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Speaker 2: fight against it at every turn. So, for example, when

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Speaker 2: I go to a supermarket, and I don't want to

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Speaker 2: get too far away from what you and I are

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Speaker 2: going to talk about, but when I go to a supermarket,

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Speaker 2: I refuse to go to the self service kiosk. I

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Speaker 2: would prefer to wait in line, even if it takes

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Speaker 2: me a little longer to go through where a clerk

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Speaker 2: rings up my groceries, because I think that's important to

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Speaker 2: help people maintain their jobs. Now, you can call me

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Speaker 2: an idolist, you can call me crazy, whatever you want,

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Speaker 2: but that's the point that I want to Uh that's

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Speaker 2: that's where I put my stick in the ground, my my, my, my,

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Speaker 2: my sword in the sand. Whatever you want. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to that kiosk. I'm not going to make it

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Speaker 2: easier for that company to lay people off. Am I

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Speaker 2: a uh you know, a dinosaur?

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Speaker 5: I was gonna say idealist? But all right, in other words.

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Speaker 2: Uh, let's do this. Let me take a quick break.

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Speaker 2: My my guest is doctor Guy Wench, and I want

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Speaker 2: to get us back to what people can do to

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Speaker 2: have a better work life balance. Because I think at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, doctor Winch, that is what

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Speaker 2: you're talking about. That is what you've written your book about,

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Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, And I want to ask you questions that

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Speaker 2: give you an opportunity to move the conversation in the

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Speaker 2: direction that my audience needs to needs to hear. So

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Speaker 2: we'll take a quick break. If you'd like to ask

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Speaker 2: doctor Guy Wench a question six one, seven, two, five, four,

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Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty

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Speaker 2: if you feel overwhelmed by your job, if you feel

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Speaker 2: that you cannot extract yourself either on a nightly basis

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Speaker 2: or on a daily basis, or over the weekend, or

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Speaker 2: for that matter, kind enjoy a vacation. I think we

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Speaker 2: have the person you should be speaking with, doctor Guy Wench,

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Speaker 2: his book Mind Overgrind. Your book has just come out,

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Speaker 2: correct if I'm not mistaken, right, Okay, and available bookstores Amazon.

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Speaker 2: We'll take phone calls and join the conversation. That's what

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Speaker 2: this program is about. This is Nightside with Dan Ray.

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Speaker 2: You're a Nightside I'm Dan Ray. This is not the

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Speaker 2: Dan Ray Show. We bring you guests who you can

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Speaker 2: talk to to professionals such as doctor Winch. So you

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Speaker 2: are more than welcome to call. And as I've often said,

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Speaker 2: the only dumb question is the question you don't have

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Speaker 2: courage enough to ask. Six one, seven, two, five, four

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Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven, nine, ten thirty. Back on

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Speaker 2: Nightside after this.

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Speaker 6: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's

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Speaker 6: news radio.

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Speaker 2: We're talking with my guest, doctor Guy Finch, and doctor again.

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Speaker 2: If I'm not directing questions, do you feel free to

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Speaker 2: take me in the direction that you want. But my

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Speaker 2: recollection from our interview of a couple of weeks ago

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Speaker 2: was that the effort here was to be able, is

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Speaker 2: to be able to live your life either separate and

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Speaker 2: apart from your job at certain times, or in a

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Speaker 2: better relationship with your job so that you can develop

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Speaker 2: better relationships socially. Is that the premise of the book

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Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind.

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Speaker 5: Yes, And part the idea is that the way we

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Speaker 5: manage the stress of our jobs is that we tend

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Speaker 5: to mismanage it. The stress has gotten to a point

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Speaker 5: that we're starting to self sabotage in certain ways. We're

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Speaker 5: just responding to the stress in ways that are making

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Speaker 5: it worse. Here's an example. A lot of people wake

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Speaker 5: up in the morning or whenever they go to work,

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Speaker 5: and they're like, they're dreading the day. I hate my job.

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Speaker 5: My job is so stressful, I hate my boss, I

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Speaker 5: hate my office mate. People say that to themselves and

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Speaker 5: they wake up every morning with this ah feeling of

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Speaker 5: like God, like, really have to get through this day now,

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Speaker 5: and I really don't want to. The problem with that

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Speaker 5: is that it's actually I mean, you might feel that way,

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Speaker 5: but saying that to yourself is going to really make

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Speaker 5: the grind worse because now you are signaling to your

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Speaker 5: brain that every moment in this job is bad and stressful,

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Speaker 5: and your brain then has to be an alert, it

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Speaker 5: has to be in fight or flight all the time

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Speaker 5: because you've just told it that your job is terrible.

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Speaker 5: Bad things can happen at any moment, So your body

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Speaker 5: it's going to be tense. You're going to be on alert,

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Speaker 5: and you're going to be more likely to notice everything

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Speaker 5: that's stressful and ignore the things that are not. And

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Speaker 5: there is no job that's stressful one hundred percent of

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Speaker 5: the time. Even if your job is very difficult or

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Speaker 5: stressful or you have a hateful boss, you're not spending

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Speaker 5: every second with that boss, you have some meetings which

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Speaker 5: are maybe just boring or just nothing. There's some people

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Speaker 5: that you must like to see. They're not everyone is

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Speaker 5: going to be terrible. But when you are that sweeping

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Speaker 5: in your generalization, you're actually making the stress much much

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Speaker 5: worse for yourself because your body then is in fight

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Speaker 5: or flight. It's an anticipation mode of bad things happening

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Speaker 5: all the time, even when the time it doesn't have

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Speaker 5: to be. So you need to be more accurate and

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Speaker 5: more nuanced and say things like I have a few

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Speaker 5: very littlebout meetings today, but the rest of the day

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Speaker 5: looks fine. Or today have to spend half a day

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Speaker 5: with my boss, but then I have half a day

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Speaker 5: where I'm just spending it with other.

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Speaker 4: Colleagues that are buying, Or it's.

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Speaker 5: Going to be a difficult, challenging day today that I

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Speaker 5: get to spend half an hour and I'm gonna sit

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Speaker 5: outside and have a nice lunch, and that at least

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Speaker 5: will be enjoyable. Be more accurate and measured, and that

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Speaker 5: will cut off, you know, a certain amount of stress

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Speaker 5: that you're self imposing by these generalizations.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so sounds to me like the lesson there is

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Speaker 2: we can be our own worst enemies.

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Speaker 5: Yes, that's a lesson in psychology in general, that we

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Speaker 5: all sudden are our worst enemies. You know, with our

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Speaker 5: negative self talk. There's a lot of things we do that.

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Speaker 3: Are very damaging, but we just tend to do them anyway.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I want to start. We're going to incorporate callers

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Speaker 2: into our conversation. Oftentimes we wait until later in the hour,

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Speaker 2: but let me go to John in Boston. And John,

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Speaker 2: you've called in. You're on with doctor Guy Wench, clinical psychologist,

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Speaker 2: and his new book is Mind Overgrind. Do you have

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Speaker 2: a question or comment for doctor Winch?

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Speaker 7: Doctor ware Right? You know, if you complain, you remain

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Speaker 7: always remember that, right and uh, you know Dan.

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Speaker 2: Like you said about the John, I don't understand what

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Speaker 2: that means. If you complain, you remain. Tell me what

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Speaker 2: that means.

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Speaker 7: In other words, I grew up in Reville. I know

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Speaker 7: you Skeffington. Okay, but anyways, I talk to you always

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Speaker 7: during snowstorm stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: But okay, I remember you, John, go right ahead, Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you talked about the fourth of July at that time.

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Speaker 7: But anyways, hey, doctor, you know something like I get

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Speaker 7: up every morning. Right, people are missing, like there's no

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Speaker 7: higher power anymore regard or anything. Right, I get up

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Speaker 7: at the morning, I say, you know, let me find

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Speaker 7: Julie in peace and everything I do today? You know

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Speaker 7: what I'm saying? Every day I do? You know what

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Speaker 7: I mean? I mean, I used to get twenty five

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Speaker 7: guys out of the phone coming right to wire up

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Speaker 7: the city the five bars, and you know something, I

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Speaker 7: never had a problem. I could understand. You know, everyone

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Speaker 7: has a problem. Right, they come in and they're grumpy

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Speaker 7: or something like that. You take them aside and he

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Speaker 7: just says everything all way. You know what I mean.

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Speaker 7: Today I don't know what's going on. But you can't

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Speaker 7: really say things to the guys like you know, hey,

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Speaker 7: smart enough by something, because then you'd be up an

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Speaker 7: you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: I okay, Well, let me get doctor John. I want

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Speaker 2: to get doctor Winch to respond to some of your comments.

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Speaker 2: First of all, I don't explain to me. So I

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Speaker 2: understand even though we both grew up in Reville, if

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Speaker 2: you could plane, you remain what do you mean you

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Speaker 2: don't glow?

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Speaker 7: You don't glow. Uh, you don't go anywhere every day

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Speaker 7: you come in. It's like this guy on the water part.

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Speaker 7: And I retired from the phone coming at fifty, I

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Speaker 7: retired from the DPW and anyways, but anyway, I had

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Speaker 7: a guy coming every day to waterfoman yell and screaming

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Speaker 7: you you you way. And when I finally said to him,

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Speaker 7: I said, you know, you're like a garbage truck. You

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Speaker 7: come in here every morning right in your sides are

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Speaker 7: exploding because you're overloaded. Right, You're not going to dump

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Speaker 7: your crap on me, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know, let me again, Let me get John,

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Speaker 2: let me get I gotta slow you down, John, Okay, okay,

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Speaker 2: just slow and slow you down. You're going you're going

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Speaker 2: seventy five into thirty five. So let's get doctor Winch

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Speaker 2: to uh to react to your comments, doctor Winch. Pretty

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Speaker 2: interesting comment that John has made. I'm not sure I

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Speaker 2: understand all of them, but I'd like to pass them

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Speaker 2: on to you, if you would be so kind.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So, so there are a couple of things that you said.

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Speaker 5: I'm going to respond to. You know, you said, when

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Speaker 5: you know you go sorry, You you go in every

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Speaker 5: day and you try and look for the good in things.

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Speaker 5: You try and look for the upside in things. You're

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Speaker 5: not looking for the bad, you're not looking for the stress.

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Speaker 5: That's a great mental attitude and I and I think

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Speaker 5: it's it's it's it's exactly the right kind of attitude.

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Speaker 4: You should have.

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Speaker 5: Now you have to be realistic as well, because there

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Speaker 5: probably are things that are not so great and you

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Speaker 5: want to be able to deal with them. You can't,

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Speaker 5: you know, whitewashed and you.

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Speaker 4: Can't overlook them.

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Speaker 5: But but having a positive attitude is very good. I

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Speaker 5: want to say something about the complain. If you complain,

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Speaker 5: you remain. What I understand that to means is if

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Speaker 5: you're complaining, you're not doing anything about it, You're actually

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Speaker 5: gonna get stuck in it because you're just you're just venting.

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Speaker 5: You're not actually figuring something out, you're not solving something.

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Speaker 5: And that is something that a lot that is to trap.

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Speaker 5: A lot of people fall into when they're stressed, when

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Speaker 5: they're dissatisfied, especially at work. They will, you know, they will.

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Speaker 5: They will come home and vent to their partner for

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Speaker 5: half an hour about you know, and my coworker did this,

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Speaker 5: and my boss did that, and then in their partner

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Speaker 5: will go, well, that's terrible those are terrible people. That's

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Speaker 5: a terrible job, you know, et cetera. And that's where

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Speaker 5: it will end. And that is very bad because what

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Speaker 5: they did there is they just work themselves up. They

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Speaker 5: made themselves even more sensitive than they issue, and they

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Speaker 5: actually didn't spend any time thinking about them. It's good

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Speaker 5: to vent, but it's a two part process. First you vent,

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Speaker 5: and then you say, now what can I do about it?

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Speaker 4: Now? What is the action step?

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Speaker 5: What is the problem I now need to solve? You

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Speaker 5: don't just vent. You then figure out if this is upsetting,

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Speaker 5: if this is distressing, how can I manage it? And

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Speaker 5: if there's nothing I can do at work, because that's

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Speaker 5: going to be a problem. They're going to march me

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Speaker 5: up to HR if I open my mouth, which might

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Speaker 5: be the case in certain companies, then how can I

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Speaker 5: reframe this in my head? How can I think about

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Speaker 5: it differently in a way that makes it less aggravating,

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Speaker 5: Because if I'm just getting aggravated and just complaining without

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Speaker 5: resolving anything, I'm not doing myself for this, you know,

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Speaker 5: a service, I'm actually gonna dispress myself out more.

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Speaker 7: Mm hmm, right, you know, Jock, I'll tell you right

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Speaker 7: like every day I get up like that. When I

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Speaker 7: was in the cruise, I used to say, another day

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Speaker 7: in Paradise, guys, right, and they used to giggle at me. Right,

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Speaker 7: you know. But you know when I retired from there, right,

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Speaker 7: when I go in there to see the mechanics everything,

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Speaker 7: they go, we wish you was back here. You kept

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Speaker 7: this place going. You know what I mean. It's a

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Speaker 7: simple thing.

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Speaker 2: I think, John, down deep. You liked your job, sounds me?

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Speaker 7: Oh, I like everything. Hey, I love life. I love life. Right,

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Speaker 7: I got five green kids. They are unbelievable, like my

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Speaker 7: kids have done good and uh, I mean, you know

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Speaker 7: it's what you make your life of. Right. You can't

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Speaker 7: keep complaining, you can't. You know what I'm saying, John,

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Speaker 7: Last question for John, last question for me.

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Speaker 2: Was it Millstone Road or Meadowview Road?

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Speaker 8: No?

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Speaker 7: Meadow View?

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Speaker 2: All right? All right, I got I got it, now,

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Speaker 2: got Yeah.

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Speaker 7: You know what you did when you played in the

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Speaker 7: fourth of July at Makefield. I was playing white Field.

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Speaker 7: You hit a line drive and I caught it and

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Speaker 7: you're you're my age. But anyways, I turned around clock

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Speaker 7: that on Stambo Street.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 7: My hand was killing me for a week because I

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Speaker 7: was I was younger than you then, right.

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Speaker 2: That's good to know that that. I must have hit

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Speaker 2: it pretty hard.

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Speaker 7: Oh it was. You know, REB was a great place

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Speaker 7: to go up. I'll tell you right, I'll tell Henry

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Speaker 7: Baky you said, he said, I'll tell me you you said, Hiks,

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Speaker 7: I'm gonna see himamp.

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Speaker 2: That's great. One of my one of my hockey one

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Speaker 2: of my hockey defensemen in Cyo hockey.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, he don't let me forget it either.

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Speaker 2: John, take it easy. Thanks for calling you some great memories.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, John, appreciate it.

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Speaker 7: Thank you, doctor. Thank you all right, talked to you later.

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Speaker 2: I also on the other side of the newsbreak, doctor,

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Speaker 2: I do want to explore a little bit of the

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Speaker 2: the anxiety that has been created by artificial intelligence. I

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Speaker 2: know this and maybe you might be aware of this.

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Speaker 2: I believe that the US Defense Department is talking to

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Speaker 2: a company as an anthropod tropic I think about Yes,

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Speaker 2: I believe so, in which there's a real high level

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Speaker 2: negotiation going on in which the Defense Department is saying

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Speaker 2: to them, you know, we want access to some of

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Speaker 2: your products, but we don't want you to have control

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Speaker 2: over how those products would be used and it was

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Speaker 2: brought to my attention today that this is a very

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Speaker 2: high level confrontation between you know, artificial intelligence in the

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Speaker 2: in in this company UH in the defense department that

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Speaker 2: wants their programs UH to be you know involved in

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Speaker 2: the US Defense Department. But the company doesn't want to

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Speaker 2: let those programs go because they want to be able

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Speaker 2: to control how these programs go. And the person I

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Speaker 2: was talking it was saying that that some of these

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Speaker 2: companies they wargame the potential of nuclear war in what

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Speaker 2: would AI do? And some of the results they're getting.

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Speaker 2: If you really want to be concerned, is that the

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Speaker 2: default position oftentimes is not bringing tensions down, but taking

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Speaker 2: tensions and therefore hostilities up. And I know that's a

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Speaker 2: different aspect of AI that most people aren't thinking about,

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Speaker 2: but I'd love to get your comment on it, and

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Speaker 2: also talk to people about AI so that they understand

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Speaker 2: what it might do and what it doesn't do. I'm

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Speaker 2: of the position that we have adjusted over the years

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Speaker 2: to the arrival of the automobile. A lot of people

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Speaker 2: lost their jobs. Automobile manufacturing created new jobs, same way

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Speaker 2: with the tech. The arrival of some of this technology

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Speaker 2: of the in the seventies, eighties and nineties. I'm an

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Speaker 2: internal optimist, but this friend of mine is not an

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Speaker 2: optimistic about AI. And I'd love to get your rope.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, and also just to add that it's not

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Speaker 5: just about AI. There are lurgers, their acquisitions. There are

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Speaker 5: just general rounds of cuts that happen in a lot

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Speaker 5: of companies and a lot of industries. And this idea

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Speaker 5: of how do we keep on functioning well in a

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Speaker 5: healthy way when we know his companies announced this month

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Speaker 5: in advance that in four months they're going to be

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Speaker 5: rounds of cuts that they're actually looking to get rid

433
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 5: of some people in this department. So how we actually

434
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 5: manage that kind of pressure is an important question that

435
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 5: I would be happy to talk about it.

436
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,000
Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much. It's not like the old

437
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 2: days where people look forward to working for a company

438
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 2: for thirty thirty five years and retire and with a

439
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 2: gold watch. We'll take a break. My guest is doctor Guy,

440
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 2: which he's a clinical psychologist. His new book Mind Overgrind,

441
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 2: and we are trying to drill down on this a

442
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 2: little bit so people can understand that our mental health

443
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 2: is as important, I would argue as our physical health

444
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 2: in many, many respects. We'll take a break for news.

445
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: Coming back with doctor Guy Winch on night Side six one, seven, two, five, four,

446
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 2: ten thirty or six months seven nine, three, one ten thirty.

447
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: No question is off the table. Feel free to call.

448
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 2: Really appreciate John's call. Enjoyed it a lot. We'll be

449
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 2: back on Nightside right after this.

450
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 6: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's

451
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 6: news radio.

452
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: My guest is doctor Guy Winch. He's a clinical psychologist.

453
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 2: His new book is Mind Overgrind. So we're talking about really,

454
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 2: in effect, living a better balanced life. We did introduce

455
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: the advent of artificial intelligence. What can you tell people

456
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 2: about artificial intelligence which might assuay there apprehensions of what

457
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: impact it might have, because it will have an impact,

458
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: I guess on our society no matter how many times

459
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 2: I decide to go through the grocery line as supposed

460
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 2: to going to the automatic checkout machine.

461
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,199
Speaker 5: Well, look, the idea with artificial intelligence, and what my

462
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 5: book is about is not so much how you fight

463
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 5: the machine, but how you manage yourself when the machine.

464
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 4: Is being difficult.

465
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 5: In other words, it's not about you can't fight artificial intelligence.

466
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 5: That's not something that's going to be in your power.

467
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 5: What you can do is you can anticipate what changes

468
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 5: are coming down the pike, whether your job is threatened,

469
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 5: whether your role is threatened, whether your company is threatened.

470
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 5: And that can again because be because of AI, or

471
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 5: it can be because your company just got bought out,

472
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 5: or it can be because you work for a startup

473
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 5: when you're putting in these very very long hours and

474
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 5: overworking people tend to do and start ups without any

475
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 5: guarantee that the startup is going to actually be able

476
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 5: to raise the funding and continue to exist. You know,

477
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 5: these are companies that many of them fail. So then

478
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 5: that there are many situations in the workplace in which

479
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 5: you might have job in security, in which you might

480
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 5: be worried about whether you will have a job going forward.

481
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 5: And the best thing you can do in that situation is,

482
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 5: rather than just sit with a worry or the anxiety,

483
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 5: is to do something that manages to help you gain

484
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 5: a feeling of control.

485
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 4: Anxiety and dread are about.

486
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 5: And anticipating some kind of vague bad outcome that you

487
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 5: don't control. The counter to any kind of anxious feeling

488
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 5: is gaining a sense of control. In the situation, and

489
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,479
Speaker 5: that's a very psychological thing. But you can do things

490
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 5: to make yourself feel like no, I do have some control.

491
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:54,000
Speaker 5: I can start networking so that if something happens, I

492
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 5: will know who to go to to try and find

493
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 5: other work. I can try and think of respecializing. I

494
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 5: can find out what kind of industries you know might

495
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 5: be open to the skill sets that I have. I

496
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 5: can be one or two steps ahead of whatever happens,

497
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 5: having plans A, B, C, and D and work them out. Now,

498
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 5: the idea of doing that is the minute you have

499
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 5: a plan A, B, and C, you can then put

500
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 5: the worry aside, because it's not like, oh, my goodness,

501
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 5: the bad thing might happen. If it does, I know

502
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 5: what I'm going to do. I don't have to start

503
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 5: figuring out that in that difficult moment. I'll already see

504
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 5: it coming and put a plan into action. You'll be

505
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 5: much less anxious if you do those kinds of steps

506
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 5: ahead of time.

507
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: Okay, So my question then is this, most people don't

508
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: want to psycho We're not. I don't think we're wired

509
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 2: to psychologically confront future problems. And I may be wrong here.

510
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: You're the clinical psychologist. I'm not, but I think most

511
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 2: of us live this sort of day to day existence.

512
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 2: We don't think about, you know, the disease that we

513
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: might contract ten years from now. We don't think as

514
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: much as we should about what our health is all

515
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:18,880
Speaker 2: of that. How do you train yourself to one get

516
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 2: control of the situation and say, okay, maybe my job

517
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 2: will be impacted by artificial intelligence. Do you sit in

518
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: a room by yourself and think, what are there? Are

519
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 2: there some proactive steps that you suggest to your clients,

520
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 2: specifically your patients, you know, individually that can be applied

521
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 2: here broadly to my audience.

522
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 5: Yes, And look and I we don't tend to problem

523
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 5: solved ahead of time because research and I talk about

524
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 5: this in the book that demonstrates that we tend to

525
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 5: think of our future selves. You in a week, you tomorrow,

526
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 5: you in a year, or you in five years time

527
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 5: as a stranger. We treat our future selves the same

528
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 5: way we would a stranger, because we don't have a

529
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,239
Speaker 5: relationship with our future selves. And you know, there were

530
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 5: just a commercial before we when we spoke about that.

531
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 5: You know, weight loss can add by the ten years

532
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 5: to your life. It's a great example, people know that,

533
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 5: and yet they don't take those steps and because and

534
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 5: that's being cruel to your future self, to you in

535
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 5: five years time. So there's actually a way that you

536
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 5: can cultivate a relationship with your future self by literally,

537
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 5: you know, doing it in the day to day, you know,

538
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 5: like by by you know, doing that task that you

539
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 5: don't feel like doing right now because you don't and

540
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 5: doing it because you don't want to saddle tomorrow you

541
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 5: with that task. The more you practice those things and

542
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 5: frame them to yourself as I don't want to punish

543
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 5: myself tomorrow, so I'm want to do that, you know,

544
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 5: for me, for tomorrow, me today. But the other part

545
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 5: of it is, in terms of the job in security,

546
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 5: is this is a response to anxiety. If you're not

547
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 5: anxious about that happening, if you're not worried about cut's happening,

548
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 5: if you're not worried about it, eye you don't necessarily

549
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 5: have to do anything. But if you're finding yourself feeling anxious,

550
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 5: if you're feeling dread, if you're feeling uncertain, if you're

551
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 5: stewing in this worry, then that's a very difficult, challenging, distracting,

552
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 5: emotion that's going to make it. You know again, it's

553
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 5: going to activate you, it's going to stress you out,

554
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 5: it's unpleasant, and you can actually lower it by then

555
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 5: gaining a sense of control in the situation. By you know, Okay,

556
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 5: if I'm feeling this anxious, let me do something that

557
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 5: will lower the anxiety and will actually be useful to

558
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 5: have a plan if something happens. It's two birds with

559
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 5: one stone.

560
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 2: Okay, here's you're making me think, which is I very

561
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 2: much appreciate. I'm going to ask you this question. We

562
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 2: do have other callers. I'm going to get to Robert.

563
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: You stay right there, I'll get to you. I promise

564
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 2: this anxiety that we're trying to combat. My sense is

565
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 2: that anxiety escalates with age. When when you're young and

566
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: you're in high school, you're thinking about, Okay, what's my

567
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:26,960
Speaker 2: job going to be, where am I going to go

568
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 2: to college? Whatever. We think about our future selves a

569
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 2: lot when you get to school. What is going to

570
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: be my major? You know? So I'm just wondering, is

571
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 2: there a correlation that the older we get there is

572
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: an increase in anxiety as we get older, or am

573
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 2: I imagining that.

574
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 5: There can be an increase in a look. But by

575
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 5: the way, as you get older, you get happier. The

576
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 5: happiness curve is you shaped. You're happier when you're younger.

577
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 5: Then you hit like thirty forty, and you know, the

578
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 5: happiness goes down, and then you you know, once you

579
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 5: enter like your sixties and seventies, then happiness goes up again.

580
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 5: So it's not that everything gets bad as you get older.

581
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 5: Happiness goes up. Anxiety happens because you have much more

582
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 5: at stake.

583
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 4: The older you.

584
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 5: Get, you've kind of invested a lot and a lot

585
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,239
Speaker 5: of things, and so you're worried about about losing them.

586
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 5: You might have less of a sense of control in

587
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 5: the world because you're not as you know, strong or

588
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 5: as you know, as capable as you were. You know,

589
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 5: our our abilities diminished. Now they've diminished very very slowly

590
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 5: and in a very shallow way, but they do go down.

591
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 5: Our intelligence peaks in our twenties. Really, you know, a

592
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 5: lot of us and a lot of things about us

593
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 5: peak in our twenties, and then it's a very shallow,

594
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 5: kind of very shallow slope downhill from there, which is

595
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 5: very slow. But yeah, some older people are anxious because

596
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 5: they don't have that sense of control the world. They're

597
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 5: not keeping up with what's going on in the world,

598
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 5: and so they feel less in control, they feel less aware,

599
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 5: they they feel more the mercy of the states, as

600
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 5: it were. But not necessarily that's a that's a very

601
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 5: individual thing, and it's absolutely not true that, you know,

602
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 5: all the people tend to be more anxious.

603
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: Okay, well, thank you, thank you for that characterization. I

604
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: can't understand that. Let me take a very quick break.

605
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 2: We get back, going to get to Robert ron and

606
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: we'll get both of those callers in. I promise. My

607
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 2: guest is doctor Guy Finch. His book Mind Over Matter

608
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: just out available Amazon bookstores. It intrigues me. It's one

609
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to read. That's for sure. Coming back on

610
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: Nightside after this.

611
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Ray Boston's news radio folks.

612
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 2: I have dominated the interview tonight, and I apologize for that.

613
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 2: So I'm going to get to at least a couple

614
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 2: of callers here. Let me go first to Robert in Wellesley. Robert,

615
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: I hate to put some pressure on you, but quick question,

616
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 2: quick comment for doctor Guy Wench, mind over Grind. Go ahead, Robert.

617
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 7: Dan. Good.

618
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 9: Ay, doctor Guy Wench. I mean it's it's Finch, isn't it.

619
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 2: Last name is Witch, first name is Guy.

620
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 9: Yes, my apologies, very interesting program. My question is I'd

621
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 9: like to ask doctor Finch to doctor Wench to possibly

622
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 9: put on his cognitive psychology hat. And and I'm puzzled

623
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 9: as to why AI isn't being incorporated more carefully. It

624
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 9: almost seems like it's being introduced recklessly into industry. Uh,

625
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 9: And I would expect something more careful in view of

626
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 9: the fact that AI is really the product of of

627
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 9: joint research between cognitive as you know, between cognitive psychology,

628
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 9: cognitive science, and computer science and computer engineering. That is

629
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 9: a very bad question.

630
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, Robert, that's a really good question, very broad question,

631
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: doctor Witch, if you can address it.

632
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, Look, I'll just say this. I can promise you

633
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 5: that when sitting in a room and with the cognitive

634
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 5: psychologists and the business leaders, the people who they are

635
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 5: listening least to other psychologists in general, we we we

636
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 5: we have a lot of thoughts about a lot of

637
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 5: things that tend to get ignored.

638
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 4: So it's probably not us, all.

639
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 9: Right, Robert, thank you, thank you very much.

640
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,919
Speaker 2: Let me go next to Ron and Ron you gotta

641
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 2: we're tight on time. We're on your quick comment of

642
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: question for doctor Guy Winch.

643
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,399
Speaker 10: Hello, doctor Winch, thank you so much for being on

644
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 10: Just wondering your thoughts on this whole notion these days

645
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 10: of stress management and resiliency training, the notion that mindfulness

646
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 10: and practicing gratitude, taking taking deep breaths to help stimulate

647
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 10: some of the or activates some of the feel good

648
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,280
Speaker 10: nerve transmitters like oxytocin, and what are your thoughts on that.

649
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Speaker 10: There's a book that which just published less than a

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00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 10: month ago entitled Inflammatory Diseases Mind and Body Body Mind

651
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 10: Hypothesis publisher, Hrvard Medical School and Masternal.

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00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 5: Look that stuff. It's very substantiated by research. Gratitude exercises,

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00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 5: journaling about gratitude, you know, thinking about that really creates

654
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 5: more optimism. It improves mental health. It helps against depression

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00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 5: and sadness. It's very useful mindfulness. Meditation is useful for concentration,

656
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,920
Speaker 5: It helps calm the body, it helps de stress. It

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00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 5: is also very useful and very substantiated by research. The

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00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 5: idea of deep breathing or boxed breathing. It activates your

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00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 5: parasympathetic nerves system which calms you down when you'll activate it.

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Speaker 5: All these things are wonderful tools to use, and I

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00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 5: truly wish more people would use them and use them

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00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 5: more regularly.

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Speaker 2: Ron, great question, great answer, Thank you, doctor, appreciate it

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Speaker 2: so much. Let me try to get one more. I'm

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00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 2: going to Jamie. You had called really late. Do you

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00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: have a quick question for doctor Winch?

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00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 8: Did I call to you late? I'm so sorry, but

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00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 8: I just had to jump in here. If you don't

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00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:26,319
Speaker 8: mind go, you gotta be quick.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, Jamie.

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Speaker 8: All right, I guess I would have to say that

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00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 8: my impression is that while all these mindfulness techniques are

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00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 8: totally worth it, regardless if the risk is as real

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00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 8: as people's fear it is, or if it maybe will

675
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 8: taper over time, what do we do about the fact

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00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 8: that it seems as though there's a strategic effort to

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00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 8: tactically look at workforce data and then look at the

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00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 8: bulleted points of what people are able to do, and

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00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 8: then use AI tools to basically feel certain job requirements

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00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 8: almost after the fact, When we see layoffs happening silently

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00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 8: over time, even when warren acts would rather be met

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00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 8: with fines and whatnot. So it's almost like the threat

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00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 8: is real, it's not just in people's minds.

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Speaker 7: So it's a mindfulness.

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00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,479
Speaker 2: That's a really complicated question, Jamie. I wish you would

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00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 2: call a half an hour ago, Doc. Did you want

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Speaker 2: to take a quick swing at that.

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00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, again, it's less about I mean, for me, it's

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Speaker 5: less about what are the forces that you cannot control,

690
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 5: because things are going to be happening whether you like

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00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 5: them to or not, and how you manage them usus,

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00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 5: how you manage them psychologically, how you manage them proactively,

693
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 5: what you can do to head them off at the

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00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 5: past psychologically, so they're less impactful, so that you're thinking

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00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 5: one or two steps ahead, so that you are not

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00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 5: falling into traps of being paralyzed with anxiety or with

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00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 5: helplessness or with helplessness. And so it's less about the

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Speaker 5: actual things that are happenings that you can't control, and

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00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 5: more about your mind and what you can actually do,

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00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 5: because that's the one thing you can control.

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Speaker 2: Jamie, great question. I wish you called earlier. Thanks again,

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00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Jamie. Thank you have a great night, doctor,

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00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: which I really enjoyed the hour. I hope you did

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Speaker 2: as much as I did and my audience did. Your

705
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 2: book is Mind over Grind, available Amazon bookstores everywhere. Thank

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00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 2: you so much for your time tonight. I think you've

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Speaker 2: helped a lot of people this evening.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, and thank you to your listeners. Ahead, very

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00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 3: good time.

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Speaker 2: My pleasure, our pleasure. Absolutely before we get back, we're

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00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 2: going to get your reaction to the state of the

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00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: Union addressed last night. It was a wide variety of

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00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 2: comments today, and I hope we have a wide variety

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00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 2: of comments here on Nightside. Do you feel the President

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Speaker 2: met the moment and what did you feel he could

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Speaker 2: have said that he didn't say. We back on Nightside

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Speaker 2: right after the eleven o'clock News