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Speaker 1: You're listening to Tony Pike since E three sixty on

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Speaker 1: ESPN fifteen thirty. Welcome back our three rolling along since

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Speaker 1: E three sixty a Friday afternoon on ESPN fifteen thirty,

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati Sports Station. Each Friday, we have the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: spend time with our guy from Novacare and the University

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Speaker 1: of Cincinnati, Bob Manjean joining us right now.

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Speaker 2: Bob.

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Speaker 1: What's going on?

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Speaker 2: Tony?

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Speaker 3: Just trying to survive a snowy day in Cincinnati.

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Speaker 1: There's been a lot of those. Luckily, you guys aren't

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Speaker 1: worried about having to take a trip anywhere. You play

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Speaker 1: at home on Sunday against UCF, so a couple home

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Speaker 1: days here. What I did want to ask, we're getting

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Speaker 1: the opening ceremonies of the Olympics happening today in Milan,

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Speaker 1: but some of the events have already started, and some

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Speaker 1: of the training events have already started. And one that

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Speaker 1: happened a couple hours ago revolved around Lindsay von the

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Speaker 1: forty one year old who is coming back from one

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Speaker 1: week ago tearing her ACL. She is still competing. And

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Speaker 1: what I thought was even more remarkable about this is

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Speaker 1: her event, the women's downhill. It feels like that's an

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Speaker 1: event that's going to put a lot of pressure on

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Speaker 1: the lower body. So let's just start with the how

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Speaker 1: one week after tearing an ACL, how is Lindsay Vaughan

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Speaker 1: still able to compete in the Olympics.

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Speaker 3: Years ago, we did a study when I was at

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Speaker 3: a company called since A Sports Medicine, and we looked

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Speaker 3: really closely at kids that tore their acls and what

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Speaker 3: percent needed surgery, what percent didn't need surgery. And you know,

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Speaker 3: again there is a small population of athletes who tear

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Speaker 3: their ACL, but they're genetically gifted enough with excellent quad control,

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Speaker 3: excellent hamstring control, good balance, that you can try to

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Speaker 3: survive participating in sports. The other thing I want to

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Speaker 3: say is, you know, when people get their knees injured,

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Speaker 3: a lot of them don't go to the er, they

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Speaker 3: don't go to their doctor, and they end up discovering

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Speaker 3: that they tour their ACL some time later. So when

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Speaker 3: we did an initial study on that, we've found in

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Speaker 3: four percent of the people who tour the acls, we're

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Speaker 3: able to continue to participate even without the ACL and

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Speaker 3: not even known about it and not picking it up

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Speaker 3: till they went through some sort of screening, either at

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Speaker 3: a college level program or an NFL level program. So again,

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Speaker 3: it's not completely impossible to participate without an ACL. The

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Speaker 3: other thing is Lindsay Bondsman throw a lot. She's had

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Speaker 3: multiple knee injuries, She's been rehabbed multiple times. She has

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Speaker 3: a good idea of what her body can withstand.

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Speaker 2: So when you get an older athlete who you know.

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Speaker 3: Has been through multiple sessions of physcotherapy, weight training getting

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Speaker 3: back to a high level of complete, you know, they

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Speaker 3: sort of have an idea of what, you know, what

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Speaker 3: they're capable of doing and.

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Speaker 2: What they're not capable of doing.

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Speaker 3: And again, like we talk about every week, we're not

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Speaker 3: one hundred percent sure exactly you know, in her case,

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Speaker 3: what's wrong with their knee. We're only guessing that. You know,

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Speaker 3: she has an isolated terror to her ACL, but again,

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Speaker 3: you know there are other complex issues that kind occur

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Speaker 3: if you have a re injury or injuries that occur

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Speaker 3: with the ACL that you try to push through. So

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Speaker 3: you know, I had a one of my kids played

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Speaker 3: football and he survived the season without an ACL, but

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Speaker 3: again it was you know, very protected through the whole season.

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Speaker 1: Well, what I think is interesting is she took to

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Speaker 1: social media and actually explained and gave some details about

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Speaker 1: the severity because people are wondering what was the what

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Speaker 1: was the state of the ACL before the injury, how

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Speaker 1: how much percentages it ruptured? She confirmed that it was

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Speaker 1: a fully funding ACL until last week and that it

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Speaker 1: is one hundred percent rupture, not eighty percent, not fifty percent,

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Speaker 1: it's one hundred percent gone. So knowing that, what other

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Speaker 1: risk is she taking on and competing at the Olympics

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Speaker 1: just a week later.

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Speaker 3: Well, when you look at the literature on that, you know, again,

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Speaker 3: I she can be very successful. She's a high level,

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Speaker 3: skilled compete athlete. She's I'm sure she's undergoing you know, extensively.

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Speaker 3: We have right now by you know, the staff with

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Speaker 3: US Skiing and their physical therapy staff. And again there

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Speaker 3: are studies out there that say you can survive and

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Speaker 3: compete without an ACL. Your biggest concern is in repeat injuries.

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Speaker 3: And you tear a miniscus, then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: your knees starts to decompensate and you start to have

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Speaker 3: more issues. So you know, again, only knowing that she's

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Speaker 3: got a quote unquote fully toward ACL and potentially everything

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Speaker 3: else was fined.

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Speaker 2: You know, there was no comment on any other structure.

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Speaker 3: So I think that at this point, the assumption is that,

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Speaker 3: you know, for the Olympics, which is a two week

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Speaker 3: time period, you know, you can try your best to

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Speaker 3: you know, become prepared to participate in that activity, and

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Speaker 3: if you have a repeat injury, you're going to suffer

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Speaker 3: the consequences. I think it was about eight years ago

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Speaker 3: there was a quarterback at the NCAA level toward his ACL,

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Speaker 3: kind of toward the end of the season, great season

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Speaker 3: going on. So this university, which was at that point

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Speaker 3: of power five university, decided to have the athlete continue

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Speaker 3: to participate, and in the very next game, he you know,

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Speaker 3: tore his latterminiscus and some other structures, and the next thing,

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Speaker 3: you know, it went from just an ACL to.

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Speaker 2: Something more complicated. So you can always test.

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Speaker 3: Quote unquote the knee and make sure that it's sound

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Speaker 3: enough to participate within you know, within the compete level

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Speaker 3: that you're at, or within a time period where you're at.

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Speaker 2: And so I mean again.

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Speaker 3: She's a high level athlete, highly trained, highly motivated, and

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Speaker 3: for a two week period, I'd certainly give it a

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Speaker 3: shot without surgical intervention, and I'd certainly give it a shot,

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Speaker 3: which is you know, re having her really hard, especially

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Speaker 3: her balance control, her coactivation as we call it, core

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Speaker 3: body control.

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Speaker 2: And again these are.

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Speaker 3: Things that she's probably like trained at a high, high,

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Speaker 3: high level. So you know, I don't I think there's

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Speaker 3: probably minimal risk for her at this point.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean, we're talking about a chance to

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Speaker 1: compete in the Olympics. It happens once every four years,

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Speaker 1: and for Lindsay Vaughan forty one years old, it's it's

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Speaker 1: your last Olympics. You've worked to this, You're going to

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Speaker 1: try everything possible to do it. So I think you

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Speaker 1: take into account her age, what the events are and

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Speaker 1: things like that, as opposed to let's say, if it's

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Speaker 1: a player on UC's basketball team or a player doing

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Speaker 1: a different sport where they're younger, you know, they've got

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Speaker 1: a lot more time to play in front of them.

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Speaker 1: Then you're going to have different conversations about, Okay, is

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Speaker 1: it best to push through it, or is it best

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Speaker 1: to get this fixed or to rest all of those

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Speaker 1: things coming to the equation. But I think you look

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Speaker 1: at the time and place of a forty one year

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Speaker 1: old athlete in our last Olympics. Go try everything you

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Speaker 1: possibly can to get that job done, as opposed to

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Speaker 1: you know, someone in their early twenties that has a

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Speaker 1: lot of sports still ahead of them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you played with an athlete here one time

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Speaker 3: that he tore his ACL against Miami of Ohio and

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Speaker 3: you know, obviously I can't say the name, and we

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Speaker 3: did a reconstruction on them, and you were around when

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Speaker 3: we played in the International Bowl, and you know, twelve

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Speaker 3: weeks later, actually eleven weeks from six days he played

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Speaker 3: in the International Bowl. So there are people out there

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Speaker 3: that I kind of call genetic freaks who can have

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Speaker 3: injuries and who can come back and participate maybe early.

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Speaker 3: Who was it Terrell not maybe Terrell Owens who tours

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Speaker 3: ACL and came back early and had a little bit

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Speaker 3: of a complication. But again, you know, if you tear your.

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Speaker 2: ACL and you're a listener out there and.

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Speaker 3: You've had a knee injury, you need to get into

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Speaker 3: and be evaluated with rehabby you know, a physiotherapist who

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Speaker 3: has experienced with knees, experienced with the dynamic balance that

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Speaker 3: the knee requires before you go back and try to play.

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Speaker 3: Just don't go to your document and say, hey, you

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Speaker 3: tore your ACL and thinking that well, Lindsey Vonn can

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Speaker 3: go back and see I can go back and play basketball.

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Speaker 3: You need to have that evaluated to see your muscle strength,

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Speaker 3: your dynamic balance or core strength and correct any deficit

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Speaker 3: you had before you would give it a try. And

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Speaker 3: certainly there is a small population, small percentage in my mind,

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Speaker 3: who can you know just go about and continue to

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Speaker 3: compete or participate and not have much problem. But if

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Speaker 3: you do have that second problem, you can go downhill

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Speaker 3: with our tritic changes pretty quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just again the risk reward, and we could

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Speaker 1: essentially tie this to any conversation that we have right

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Speaker 1: of do you play the arrest? How do those things look.

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Speaker 1: I just think it's fascinating to think of an athlete

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Speaker 1: at forty one years old in her final Olympics in

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Speaker 1: a week out, tears her ACL and still able to compete.

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Speaker 1: It's very impressive. And again that stuff doesn't happen without

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Speaker 1: her ability to get it done, but also at the

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Speaker 1: same time the training staff around her to give her

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Speaker 1: body an opportunity to go compete as well.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, you have to have really really people who understand

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Speaker 3: the injury, the mechanism, the sport that's are participating in,

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Speaker 3: and then design your program around all that.

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Speaker 1: Bob Manjean, University of Cincinnati and Novacare, you're the best, Bob.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy the weekend, get a win on SUN, and I

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Speaker 1: look forward to talking again next week.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Tony, I have a good weekend as always, stay

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Speaker 3: you know, stay warm, and thanks to you having the

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Speaker 3: snow tires on.

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Speaker 1: That's it. That's it, uh, Bob Man Jean, University of

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati and Novacare. When it comes to your physical wellbeing,

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Speaker 1: you want a physical therapist you can trust. That's NOA

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Speaker 1: Novercare Rehabilitation. Novacare has been the exclusive physical therapy and

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Speaker 1: athletic training provider to the Bearcats for over twenty years.

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Speaker 1: Go to novacare dot com to request an appointment today.

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Speaker 1: The Bearcats trust Novacare. So can you talk? I'm sorry

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Speaker 1: not talkbacks. Quick hits to finish up this edition of

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Speaker 1: sincey three to sixty Next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati

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Speaker 1: Sports Station