WEBVTT - 10-24-25 Sloan with Steve Goodin 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:01.640 Don't want to be an American. 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.080 It's a Scott's Loan show on seven hundred WIW and 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:07.800 free everwhere you go with the iHeartRadio app take Us 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:12.120 with You podcast after the show streaming. We got You Covered. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.720 We got you Covered on all those platforms. A mind 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:20.080 up boggling example of ready fire aim Chief Teresa Thiji 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:22.759 placed on administrative leave, paid administrator to leave at that 0:00:23.000 --> 0:00:26.560 and an interim chief. And Adam Henny named this before 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:29.760 the investigation into the effectiveness of our leadership as a 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.479 city calls it that any of this happens. It's the 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:34.680 city is looking for a reason to fire the chief. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:39.280 After they fire the chief, it just goes from bad 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.640 to worse. Too ridiculous at this point with the City 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.560 of Cincinnati, and it's a leader app to ad Pierre 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:50.280 Valscher along the city manager in just more confusion and 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:52.600 chaos when we don't need it. Steve Goodness here is 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.920 a council candidate from a council member, attorney and charter 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:59.160 right and with his analysis here this morning, Steve, how. 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.200 Are you Steve there? 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.840 Steve Gooden, Well wait, wait, hold on, hold on, standby, 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.240 let's go there we go. We got you awsked you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:01:12.400 --> 0:01:14.319 first day on the new job, first day on the 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:19.000 new job. For me, there's an irony here because it's 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.720 the executive branch's law enforcement. The irony is, of course, 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.800 there's no due process for the chief of police. This 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.679 is conviction before being charged, and on that they haven't 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:30.920 even hired a law firm yet. 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:32.840 How does this make any sense legally? 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.840 Well it doesn't. I mean, look, you know, I've had employees, 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.840 you know, for most of my career, and look, I 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:44.800 rule number one is, if you've got the goods on somebody, 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:48.040 you just go ahead and fire them, you know. And 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.040 so the idea that's here, they said, hey, well we 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:55.360 want you to resign. The charter clearly says that once 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:57.880 the chief has served more than six months, she can 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.520 only be fired for cause. So presumably, if they had 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.520 any kind of cause or bad behavior on her part 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:06.520 that had been documented, they would just gone ahead and 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.320 fired her and we wouldn't have this farce. So now 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:13.400 they're trying to create a ground, obviously, create grounds to 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.480 fire her after the fact, after they've already sort of 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:18.680 gone to her and asked her to resign. It is 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:22.480 a morale killer it's more politics that the rank and 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.480 file see this. I talked to some officers yesterday who 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.960 are just disgusted by how this is playing out. I mean, 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.560 they're already short staff, morale was already bad. And I 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:34.680 got to hand it to mayor and the council. They 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.920 have done the impossible. They have taken a horrible situation 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.560 and made it yet worse. I was thinking, like, there's 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:42.920 really no way it gets any worse. We have rampant 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.680 gun violence, business is downtown, are scared in town. We 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.160 literally have slats standing on Fountain Square. My offices right 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:53.000 there was there yesterday. We don't really have a police chef. 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.320 How could we make it worse? And also, yeah, I've 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:58.680 never seen a situation we're bringing a bunch of lawyers 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.000 in billing by the hour makes anything. Say that as 0:03:02.000 --> 0:03:04.520 a lawyer who builds by the hour, it never makes 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:05.080 things better. 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:07.480 Here's a great example. 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:09.720 See here's a great example NBA scandal, the betting of 0:03:09.760 --> 0:03:10.400 the gambling scandal. 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:11.400 Chauncey Billups. 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.160 Okay, how it works all always is always is All 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:16.640 of a sudden, there's a bombshell, Hey we're having a 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:17.040 press count. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:17.880 Here's what's gonna happen. 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.120 It's like we caught all these players in the gambling 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.280 scheme and at the mobs involved, and you have a 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.160 press conference, you lay the charges out. On the other 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:26.400 side says, oh, we deny, we deny, we deny. 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:31.119 Uh. That's how you don't go, hey, by the way. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:35.800 Uh, ch we're going to we're gonna we're gonna do this, 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:37.960 uh and then go and find that we're not sure 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:39.320 we believe they did this, and now we're gonna go 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:40.320 and investigate it. 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.200 It's it's completely backwards. You don't do that. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.920 You have the charges that they make the presentation. You 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.440 don't present and say we're gonna let we're Chauncey billups, 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:50.360 We're we're gonna suspend you, We're gonna come after, we're 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:52.200 gonna charge you, but we're not going to tell you 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.000 what it is. We've got to hire a team to 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:56.720 do that. But we know you're guilty of something. It 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:58.960 just it doesn't even pass the stiff test for most people. 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:03.280 It's insane, right, all right, Well, it's a fundamental violation 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:05.280 of it, just even the most basic due process on 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:08.000 her part. She can't answer the charges because she doesn't 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.880 know what they are. Now we know from the mayor's 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:14.080 comments that they're hanging all this on her quote and effectiveness. 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:18.320 But what she's already telegraph very strongly is I think 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:22.400 she acknowledges she was uneffective, okay, because of the policy 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:26.280 she was given an instructed to do. I mean, we 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.800 know that city Hall and the mayor helped elect a 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.520 set of judges over in the courthouse that really didn't 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.640 believe in cash bail, so they were putting gun offenders 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.680 back on the streets rapidly, and that that contributed to 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:42.480 the frustration in the police department, And that she has 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:44.600 clearly said that she went to the mayor to try 0:04:44.640 --> 0:04:47.839 to correct the situation and he refused. We also know 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:52.680 that this whole bizarre compliance versus enforcement thing on lower 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:55.839 level offenses came right from the city manager and the mayor. 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.960 Now I fault the chief candidly for not pushing back 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.839 more on that. So they stopped writing, uh you know, 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.359 wead tickets, stopped pursuing graffiti issues, stopped dealing with the 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:09.640 homeless situation downtown, and over time, the failure to prosecute 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:12.599 or deal with these low level offenses created a sense 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:16.640 of lawlessness that brought the real bad actors with guns downtown. 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:20.440 So we've seen that. But calling her ineffective because your 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.640 policies were ineffective, I mean, that's ridiculous. And this just 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:26.720 isn't the way you do things. OK. I used to 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:28.960 run a big law firm and there were a couple 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:31.200 of different instances where we had young lawyers who had 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.719 who had done bad things, and we did an investigation 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:36.280 and then we went to them then laid it out 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.560 and so either resign or get fired, and here are 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:40.880 your options. And here's what we found. Unless you have 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:43.960 some answer, that's how it works. This is they're trying 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.599 to make up a reason to fire after. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.280 Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And now we have a pattern 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:52.440 of behavior, Steve Gooden. And when it's abuse of due process, 0:05:52.920 --> 0:05:56.160 let's go back to the July street brawl where you 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.560 had a white guy right who has started this whole 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.279 thing allegedly, and then the city come out and says, well, then, 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:04.280 well you know what, actually a minute forty six prior, 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.240 they were the victim of some very extreme racial attacks 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.240 and physical attacks. And this was him bass So and 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.080 you know he had the ministers crying for Whitey to 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:14.719 be charged all this stuff and they do that, and 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.720 it's actually Adam Henny now the interim chief oddly enough, 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:20.400 so you see there's some quid pro quote at least, 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:22.920 and I'm not demeaning Chief Henny here. I understand it's 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:25.960 a great cops cops cop, but again, playing the game 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.280 is that now you cast dispersions on the integrity of 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.320 the office, because like, if you're willing to write a 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.279 ticket for something you didn't witness yourself, and the officers 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:35.760 didn't want to get jammed up, and he said, I'll 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:37.640 take the bullet from my officer, so to speak, and 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.359 write the citation that led to the charges. 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:42.120 It's cut from the same. 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:44.680 Cloth, like, Okay, we're going to wait a month to 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.200 charge someone, and pretty clearly it's someone who shouldn't be charged, 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:52.279 but we're doing it because of political correctness and political expediency, 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.359 just like we're doing now we have a trend now. 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:58.520 All right, well yeah, I mean it's just what we've 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:02.880 done here is just it just undermines the sense of 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.400 fairness and of law and order in the town. It 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:07.719 really does look like the mayor and the city manager 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:10.200 can say, I want this guy charged, so they go 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.520 back and charge him. Whether there's evidence or not, I 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.440 don't know, but certainly you had a guy who an 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:17.560 officer who signed the charge, who was not involved in 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.200 the investigation, wasn't there, and it hadn't interviewed the guy 0:07:20.240 --> 0:07:23.800 even apparently. Now you also have the scenario where they're saying, 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:26.800 on these low level offenses, we don't want people charge 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:30.080 And how do you have a city that way? We 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.520 have a charter that says our police chief and city 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:36.120 manager is supposed to be independent above politics. They're supposed 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:37.880 to be out there policing and do it, you know, 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.080 working going where the crime is, looking at real metrics 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.000 and trying to figure out what to do. And that's 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.560 what the neighborhoods are, you know, crying about, because I mean, 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:49.400 I mean, we don't even trust I don't trust the 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.440 data coming out of the police department in city Hall anymore. 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.440 I think it's clearly been manipulated to make the gun 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.120 violence look less. I mean, you know, from shots about 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:00.400 and we're on track for twenty three thousand shots fire, 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:02.440 but that isn't reflected in the other data. 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.320 It's clear from the top right, I mean, the two 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.280 examples I gain what you saided here too. It's like 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.680 the mayor is deciding what justice looks like. And I'm sorry, 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.200 but I wonder about those people who would support AFTAB 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.400 puricle and a heartbeat, who are down marching at the 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.880 No King's rally. Isn't this what you're allegedly fighting against? 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:23.200 Well, I mean, I mean, it could not be more 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:27.240 perfect of an analogy between Donald Trump and AFTAB. I mean, 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.560 it's exactly the same thing. It's just, you know, they're 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.400 on different sides of the aisle politically, you know, but 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.320 there is this sense on both sides that they are 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.160 like busting through some of the norms, you know, that 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.760 we have out there. Said, the critique people make of 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.319 Donald Trump is exactly the same critique that could be 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.559 made of AFTAB, which is somebody who really just doesn't 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.000 plan with the rules. And I would go a step further. 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.199 I mean, the thing that makes me the sickest is 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:54.120 we've had mayors in the past who have kind of 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.920 lost their way, but we've always had some diversity of 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.960 thought on city Council and some people with backbone that 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.560 we're willing to push back. These guys have been with 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.120 maybe one exception in the last twenty four hours, no 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.480 one's done anything. I mean in the old days, you 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.040 know a Chris Smitherman or a Steve Guodden or even 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:14.400 maybe Alsie someone you know or can you call someone 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:16.320 like that would have called for a hearing right a 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:19.079 public here and to say like what happened here? They 0:09:19.240 --> 0:09:21.360 bring the chief, and they bring the city manager in 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:23.800 and say like, hey, look, you know, with the cameras on, 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.400 tell us what the hell is going on here where? 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.400 You know? And they wouldn't have just accepted this nonsense 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.080 day in and day out. So there's a lack of 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.280 oversight from council that really really makes this even worse 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.400 because I mean, they have a role in this process. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:39.920 They can you know, they have the ability to shine 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.480 a flashlight here and they are hiding under their desk. 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:44.600 But I would point out that we're being told to 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:47.120 add at nauseam from a to add peer of all 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:50.400 in others, this is not political. She's not a political scapegoat. 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:52.840 The election has nothing to do with the decision. The 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:56.240 decisions we take public safeties are number one priorities, Like 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:58.959 we're taking it seriously. This is not political all. As 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:00.760 a matter of fact, she's not not even fired, she's 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:02.040 on paid administrative leave. 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:03.439 And there's another part. 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:06.360 Of the of the s absurdity Steve Gooden, is that 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.599 all right, Fiji's on paid administrative not fired. She's not 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.439 administrative leader. She's stick in a paycheck while we investigate 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:14.120 her over the next one. It's going to take months, 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.800 apparently to solve this. Then why name a interim chief 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:23.040 instead of an acting chief? If you're suspended, it's an 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:26.199 acting chief, like if someone's hurt. You know, Joe Flacco 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.319 is the acting starting quarterback. He is not the interim 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:32.880 starting There's a difference in a nuance. There is interim 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:37.600 chief not acting. They essentially have given it like, well 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:39.720 we're done with the old chief, this is the innermundle 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:40.440 we find a new one. 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.880 They've already stated that, and then they go back and go, well, no, 0:10:43.040 --> 0:10:43.880 she just doesn't leave. 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:48.040 Well, you know what's so funny is he actually slipped 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.640 up at one of his you know, he was sort 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:55.280 of ambushed coming out of council chambers yesterday and I 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:56.720 think it was Channel twelve or one of the other 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.400 reporters asked him, you know some pretty tough questions, said, well, 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.640 whenever we move on and change leadership. It's a tough time. 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:05.680 And I said, okay, so you're firing her? Oh no, 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.440 I'm not saying that. And you just said we're changing leadership, 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.440 you know, And it was like, you know, you're like 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:11.800 you can't even keep. 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:16.120 Your your Live Street interim in acting, so you don't 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:17.840 even know what the adjective you need at this point. 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.880 It's so comically bad in the and the sad part 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:22.760 about this is all right, it's going to go on 0:11:22.840 --> 0:11:25.400 in for a months, okay, so put your political hat 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.440 on here. A second, good and from the legal one, Okay, 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:32.720 after the election, what happens, well. 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.559 You know after the election, I mean, lou Well, first, unfortunately, 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:38.640 I see this dragging into the next year. Uh. And 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:40.280 I mean I think number one, what the first one 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:42.600 we got to watch for is what law firm they choose. 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:44.840 So if they choose one of the go to law 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.520 firms that have represented AFTAB and Council in the past 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.040 and they've gotten in trouble, we're going to know the 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:54.120 fixes in you know, I we're hoping to go with 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.600 someone outside the area, if you have some integrity here, 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.760 who might actually push back. But I wouldn't hold my 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.959 bread for that. So number one is we got to 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.840 watch which law firm. If it's one of these like 0:12:04.920 --> 0:12:09.319 hyper connected democratic law firms, you know, then you know, 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.320 all bets are off as to what happens there. But 0:12:12.400 --> 0:12:14.559 I would expect us to drag on at least through 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.000 the end of the year with us having you know, 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.760 a suspended chief and an interim chief and then some 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.360 sort of a search. If there was any integrity here, 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.240 they'd wait and see what the new council is going 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:26.200 to look like so that they could have some input. 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:28.720 But my guess is that there's going to be like 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:30.800 a hurry up to try to resolve all this in 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.160 December before anybody can come in and shine a light 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:33.400 on it. 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:35.760 How much longer is she under contract? How much as 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:37.000 you do? How long does that last? 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.560 My understanding is, and I haven't read it, but my 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.640 recollection is that they renew it every two years. And 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.640 that is where this gets funny from a legal standpoint, 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.240 is that if you recall, we have this thing called 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.480 Issue five that was passed back from two thousand and five, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.600 which is deeply unpopular with the FOP and probably is 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.800 ripe to be revisited. That kind of takes the chief 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.440 out of some of or most of the civil service protections. 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.080 So the idea is that the Sydney Manager, with input 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.280 from the mayor, actually could just fire the chief for cause. 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.360 And that's in the charter, and it spells it out 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:14.680 pretty clearly that once you're in the job six months, 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:16.920 it's kind of a probationary period. Could be fired for 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.320 any reason. After six months, they have to actually prove 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.440 that you've screwed something up for cause. But they are, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.880 on top of that, have apparently been issuing these two 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.960 year contracts that somehow, you know, deal with compensation and 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.560 so forth, and apparently there's language in there that contradicts 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.480 the charter. So that's why she's lawyered up and there's 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:36.480 going to be some sort of a court battle about 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.080 what her rights really are. And even this is a mess. 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.040 I don't know how the Law Department allowed this to happen, 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.560 where you have something in the contract that I guess 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.559 the contract doesn't mention her being fired for cause, but 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.920 yet the charter says she is. They're in conflict, and 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:50.800 it's the classic sort of thing that you end up, 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.320 I hate to say it, having lawyers fight out in 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.280 court in the fact that we're here and that we've 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.640 been kind of doing business this way for years, you know, 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.360 is to terrible. And again the taxpayers lose. I mean, 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.560 this is going to cost every bit of a million 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.600 dollars or about the salary and benefits of five to 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.480 six police officers the time this is all said and. 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.199 Doc, Yeah, he is a Steve Gooden counsel condidate, former 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.560 councilman and a Charter rights Steve Gooden on the ready 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.480 Fire aim approach with Fiji. She is on paid administrative leave. 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:24.840 They name an interim chief, not acting interim, so there's 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:26.880 confusion there. And now they're going to hire a law 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:28.840 firm that could take months of them to investigate why 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:30.080 they fired her in the first place. 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:32.800 Yeah, that's that's real life. 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:34.840 That's really happening in the city right now, with an 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.080 election happening, by the way, in just a couple of weeks. 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:39.320 And of course everyone is saying, I have to have 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.040 on down. This is not political. Is it time for 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.280 us to blow everything up? The way it works? Because 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:46.720 we have a very inefficient If you live in Cincinnati, 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.520 been here long til you kind of pay attention to 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:52.520 but our government is so inefficient and it starts the 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.400 fact there's so much overlap between Hamlin County and the 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:58.880 City of Cincinnati in fighting for their turf. Of course 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.080 you see stadium issues and such, but even within the 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:05.360 design itself. You know, you mentioned the contentious issue five, 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.920 but also how council works, how the city manager integrates 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:11.680 and all this stuff. Because there's cover for everyone involved. 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:13.840 Her council can go, well, we have a strong mayor 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:15.720 in the mayor goes, well, we've got a city manager. 0:15:15.760 --> 0:15:17.560 And the city manager says, well, we've got a mayor 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:19.480 and a council. It's like no one, there's no one 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.240 the way we've got it wired right now, it strikes 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.720 the average person like myself, Steve Gooden, that it's wired 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:26.920 so there's no one accountable. 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.000 Well, it's wired so that you end up with an 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.560 absurd result, and you know, and it would work. The 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.000 current system would work. It's not perfect, but would work 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.960 better if council would just step up. If we didn't 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.280 have like a you know, an all a nine member 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.640 politically ambitious democratic city council who would actually step up 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.000 and provide some of the oversight that they are allowed 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:52.520 to do. But I mean to your larger point, I 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.400 have always been somebody who has been pushing for at 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.120 least some form of metro government so that we might 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:02.200 actually find some of these efficiencies. I mean, even Tyahoga County, 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:06.000 even Cleveland has gone to a limited form of metro government, 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:11.120 Indianapolis has, Louisville has. I mean, it's it's ridiculous that 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.640 we have all these turf battles. It's ridiculous that our 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.600 departments don't work well together. And I mean back when 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.200 I was in the prosecutors obviously as a young assistant prosecutor, 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:22.800 back in two thousand and one, post the Timothy Thomas 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.240 shooting and the riots that happened, we absolutely had a 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.960 level of cooperation between the city and the county then 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:31.720 that will be unheard of now. You know, we had 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.360 Operation Vortex. Now they were doing gun and drug sweeps 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:40.280 with CPD and Sheriff's patrols, I mean, and Ohio State 0:16:40.280 --> 0:16:43.040 Patrol and it was wonderful and it really made a difference. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.800 But now everyone is just in their silos and they 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.960 don't cooperate at all, and it's really silly. And that's 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.920 something that just desperately needs some fresh thought. And I 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.920 can tell you this current crew or that's not where 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:56.960 their head is. They're just all about protecting what they 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.000 have rather than trying to look at what would actually 0:16:59.040 --> 0:16:59.880 serve the public better. 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.400 This is the maybe this is a catalyst for Steve. 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.560 I don't know, I'm trying to be optimistic here. 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.600 Well, well, I'm trying to be optimistic too. And I 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:09.720 think another part of it is that I'm hoping this 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:12.680 is the year and the timeframe where some folks in 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.680 the business community who I know have been talking for 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.919 some time about metro government and substantive reforms. I know 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:21.600 there's a working group down at the Chamber. It's very 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.800 quiet that they've been looking at and studying and pushing 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:27.119 these issues. And there's just got to come a time 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.600 where we're not not just you know, the citizens, but 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:33.719 the business community and all these other groups that kind 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:35.480 of feed in. They have to speak up on this 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.040 stuff too, I mean, because they have a right or wrong, 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:41.080 a louder voice, and it's been very easy for them 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.320 to kind of go along cynically and say, well, look, 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:44.680 you know, I have to have very you know, he's 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.240 going to win. It's a blue city, et cetera, et cetera. 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:50.960 And just to go along to get along, and some 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:52.760 people are going to have to stand up. I mean, 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.639 you know, we've been our little group has been pretty 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.360 fearless about speaking out on these issues this year. We've 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.440 paid a price for it in terms of some lost 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.920 friendships and broken business relationships. But that's fine. I mean, 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.119 that's what it takes. We need more people to speak 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.840 up and say this isn't working, we're not happy, We're 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.560 not going to go along to get along. We need 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.880 real substance of change, just at every step of the way. 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:21.840 And it's just going to take some political courage and 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.280 some personal courage, frankly, because you know, in this world 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.000 of lobbyists and nonprofits and the people that really have 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:30.960 a lot of voices at city Hall, there's a lot 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.800 of personal relationships and you have to be willing to 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:36.000 just step on those at times if you're going to 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:36.520 do the right thing. 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:38.679 Gotch all right, he's a consul, kendedy, Steve Gooden. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.919 We'll see if this enacts any change, Probably not with 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.440 the mayor, but I you know, ask others about the 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.320 trickle down here, and I think it's I would think 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.320 it's going to be substantial that somebody's going to pay 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.199