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Speaker 1: This is Tony Pike Sincey three sixty about Cincinnati from Cincinnati,

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Speaker 1: sponsored in part by Skyline Chili. Stop by Skyline Chili

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Speaker 1: for a three way or cheese cony today. Feeling good,

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Speaker 1: It's Skyline Time. This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 2: All right, Den, welcome in, Happy Thursday. Let's do it.

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Speaker 2: We got three hours of Cinty three sixty on ESPN

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Speaker 2: fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. You just heard it right there,

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Speaker 2: thanks to Skyline Chili. Anytime you're feeling good and hungry

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Speaker 2: at Skyline Time, maybe you've already kind of started to

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Speaker 2: dive into the holiday shopping and things just aren't clicking

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Speaker 2: like you hoped. Well, I got an easy solution for

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Speaker 2: you at Skyline Chili Skyline Gift Cards. And the best

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Speaker 2: part about getting the Skyline Gift card is when you

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Speaker 2: go in to buy the gift card, you just eat

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Speaker 2: and have lunch or dinner, whatever you want to do,

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Speaker 2: all thanks to our friends at Skyline Chili. Here's what

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Speaker 2: we got today, and it's quite a lot. There are

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Speaker 2: times hand up three hours feels like a lot of

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Speaker 2: time to cover for a sports radio show, And then

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Speaker 2: there are days like today where it feels like three

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Speaker 2: hours isn't nearly enough for what we want to try

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Speaker 2: to accomplish on today's program. So here's what we got.

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Speaker 2: Let's work back to front our number three. Keegan Nickoson

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Speaker 2: Bearcat Journal dot Com. He'll join us. Why big weekend

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Speaker 2: for the Cincinnati Bearcats. They play Louisville in basketball tomorrow

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Speaker 2: night at the Heritage Bank Arena, and then on Saturday,

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Speaker 2: big noon kickoff is in town ahead of a eight

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Speaker 2: pm start nip at night you see versus the eleventh

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Speaker 2: rank team in the country, the BYU Cougas, coming into town.

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Speaker 2: Keegan Nickoson will get us all set up for that.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of Friday nights, speaking of UC and Louisville, Wes

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Speaker 2: miller I, head basketball coach of the Cincinnati Bearcats, will

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Speaker 2: join us in our number three as well our number two.

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Speaker 2: You know what it is with talkbacks, those happen in

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Speaker 2: their normal place in time. And John Shearon height is

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Speaker 2: e Sports covering the Cincinnati Bengals, and boy do we

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Speaker 2: have a lot of talk about with the Bengals. He'll

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Speaker 2: join us at one o'clock. In between all of that,

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Speaker 2: we've got audio that you're gonna want to hear audio

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Speaker 2: of Zach Taylor. Earlier this morning with Tom Brenneman down

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Speaker 2: the hall on WLW. Nick Krawl sent shockwaves to many

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Speaker 2: with an Elie de la Cruz comment. You'll hear that.

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Speaker 2: You'll hear Nick Krawl's comment on the off season. And

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Speaker 2: Kyle Schwarber was in town last night. He was being

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Speaker 2: honored in Middletown, and our own Bill Seg Dennison was there,

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Speaker 2: and we've got some Seg audio with Kyle Schwarberg. All

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Speaker 2: of this is supposed to fit in just three hours.

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Speaker 2: We'll see how we can do. We won't spend as

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Speaker 2: much time in the first segment on everything else going

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Speaker 2: on in the world sports. Let's just get that out

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Speaker 2: of the way right now. College basketball last night saw

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Speaker 2: a good one, and I mean a good one. In

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Speaker 2: the early part of the season. Arizona went on the

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Speaker 2: road to Yukon. That's number three verse number four, The

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Speaker 2: number four Arizona Wildcats beat Yukon on the road seventy

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Speaker 2: one sixty seven. And then another good one in Chicago

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Speaker 2: the United Center. Illinois, number eight in the country, hosted

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Speaker 2: number eleven Alabama. Alabama outlast Illinois ninety to eighty six.

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Speaker 2: And if you're charting a path forward for the Cincinnati

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Speaker 2: Bearcats and you're like me and you're thinking, hmm, how

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Speaker 2: can I talk myself into UC keeping it close tomorrow

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Speaker 2: against Louisville, maybe finding a way to win at the end. Well,

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Speaker 2: here's this. Kentucky got boat raced by Michigan State earlier

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Speaker 2: in the week. So maybe the Louisville win over Kentucky

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Speaker 2: isn't as impressive as we thought. And a lot of

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Speaker 2: people wanted to pick apart the Dayton win. Well, Dayton

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Speaker 2: went on the road last night and beat Marquette in overtime,

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Speaker 2: and Mount Saint mary who gave UC a ton of

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Speaker 2: fits in the first on Sunday, they went on the

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Speaker 2: road last night and took Maryland to overtime. So if

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Speaker 2: you're looking for positives, there is a positive. I also

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Speaker 2: saw this, Austin. Did you see what came from the

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Speaker 2: Twitter machine of coach Richard Patino from Xavier No yesterday?

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Speaker 2: He tweeted out better not sent out grades. He said

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Speaker 2: report card from last night, and then he tagged that

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Speaker 2: barstool big cat and he said coaching a plus. That

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Speaker 2: was it.

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Speaker 3: That was his great I don't think that's funny.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's I think he's gonna get a

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Speaker 2: little pushback. We're just saying, uh, Thursday Night football tonight.

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Speaker 3: See I see that big cat said thank you?

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Speaker 2: Yep, Thursday night football? Is it okay? Is it a

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Speaker 2: sneaky good one? With the Bills going on the road

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Speaker 2: at the Houston Texans.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of the Houston Texans, news coming down right at

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Speaker 3: the start of the show that former Bengals running back

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Speaker 3: and current Houston Texan Mixon is not expected to play

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Speaker 3: at all this season due to that lingering foot injury.

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Speaker 2: He's been on the pup.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 3: So it's gonna be Nick Chubb and Woody Mark's moving forward.

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Speaker 3: That that's stuff that that stinks for Joe Mixon, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: because I thought he had a pretty good season last year,

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Speaker 3: worked well in Houston, but got hurt before the season.

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Speaker 3: Thought he would come back. I guess it's just lingered.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I think those teams are probably a little

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Speaker 3: closer than you would think. If you listen to the

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Speaker 3: show at all, you know that I generally side with

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Speaker 3: the home team on Thursday Night Football. But Buffalo, I

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Speaker 3: think is desperate. Yeah, and I would take Josh Allen

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Speaker 3: over Davis Mills. With all due respect to Davis Mills

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Speaker 3: in company. Some call him Davis General Miles. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna take Buffalo to win that game. I thought

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Speaker 3: it was King's like that a lot.

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Speaker 2: I'll mean two quick NFL things before we dive into

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Speaker 2: everything Cincinnati sports here and now Number one, there is

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Speaker 2: uh critics. I'm coming to two different players in the

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Speaker 2: National Football League. One is injured, one is not one.

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Speaker 2: You see all these people, big man, that camp Scataboo

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Speaker 2: is doing everything right now. He was at a UFC

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Speaker 2: fight the other night, and then he was at Monday

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Speaker 2: night rawl for WWE and he was getting into altercations.

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Speaker 2: Do you care how people spend their time when they're

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Speaker 2: rehabbing from an injury.

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Speaker 3: Uh. If camp Scataboo had just shoved the guy, that's

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Speaker 3: one thing. But when he's there kind of going back

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Speaker 3: and forth and getting shoved, I don't. I'm not a

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Speaker 3: big fan of that. I think it's different. If he

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Speaker 3: was like on like the IR and he was coming

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Speaker 3: back in four weeks, that's fair. His season's over, that's fair,

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Speaker 3: you know. So how someone wants to operate through that

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Speaker 3: I'm okay with but he is getting a lot of

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Speaker 3: heat for that. He is a very strange guy, and I.

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Speaker 2: Also think there's something to cashing in while you're why

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Speaker 2: your stock is hot.

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Speaker 3: Sure, especially in New York, people know about that. I

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Speaker 3: wonder how long the shelf life is for him. That's

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Speaker 3: that's my biggest I think. So he acts right now

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Speaker 3: the way Antonio Brown did towards the end of his career, Sure,

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Speaker 3: and I just wonder how long that lasts. The other

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Speaker 3: player getting a lot of criticism is Jalen Hurts of

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Speaker 3: the Eagles. He has taken a lot of criticism. There

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Speaker 3: are reports of frustration inside the organization. He, like he

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Speaker 3: does with everything else, has handled it in extreme profession,

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Speaker 3: not surprised nature of the position. I put my energy

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Speaker 3: and focus on going out there and doing my best

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Speaker 3: and trying to learn, build and take things that can

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Speaker 3: try to improve on. According to a report by The

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Speaker 3: Athletic people on the team have talked about his hesitancy

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Speaker 3: to throw the ball into tight windows against zone coverage

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Speaker 3: and Jalen Hurts playing quote his game instead of taking

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Speaker 3: what is discussed during the week and transitioning it to

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Speaker 3: the game. So Here's what I say, Austin, where do

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Speaker 3: you stand with Jalen Hurts? Because Philly is eight and two.

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Speaker 3: Their offense has been disappointing, but they're the best red

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Speaker 3: zone offense in the NFL and have a league low

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Speaker 3: f four giveaways on the season. Do you really want

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Speaker 3: Jalen Hurts fitting the ball into small windows when you

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Speaker 3: have a good defense, or if you don't turn the

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Speaker 3: ball over and you're efficient in the red zone?

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Speaker 2: Is not enough?

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Speaker 3: What is the difference between a quarterback who's a game

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Speaker 3: manager and a quarterback who's highly efficient. Because I feel

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Speaker 3: like Jalen Hurts is somewhere in between, and I think

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Speaker 3: he is a different type of leader, a different type

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Speaker 3: of person and personality. But more than anything, I think

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Speaker 3: he needs people around him to be at a high level.

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Speaker 3: And Philly has just kind of been up and down.

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Speaker 3: They've had some injuries on their offensive line. Saquan hasn't

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Speaker 3: been one hundred percent, the run game hasn't exactly been

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Speaker 3: the same, and there's been I've also seen a lot

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Speaker 3: of criticism of their offensive coordinator, Kevin Petula. If I

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Speaker 3: said his name correctly, I'm not sure, but I'm a

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Speaker 3: believer in Jalen hurts. Is he going to go and

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Speaker 3: win you games? Is he going to put the team

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Speaker 3: on his shoulders? Probably not, but he's not gonna lose

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Speaker 3: games for you. And I think that's important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I also think it should be noted every single time

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Speaker 3: the postseason has come around, he's played elevates and in

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Speaker 3: both Super Bowls he was awesome. They should have won

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Speaker 3: that first Super Bowl against the Chiefs, and he put

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Speaker 3: on one of the best performances you'll ever see in

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Speaker 3: the Super Bowl by a losing quarterback, and multiple times

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Speaker 3: in the postseason he showed up. That has to count.

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Speaker 2: I just think there's some let's say about a guy

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Speaker 2: that's not turning the ball over and a guy whose

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Speaker 2: team is still eight and two.

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Speaker 3: Philly is a difficult place to play.

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Speaker 2: Without a doubt, all right, So let's get into the

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Speaker 2: meat of everything that has happened over such like the

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Speaker 2: last twenty four hours or so. Let's start with the

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Speaker 2: Joe Burrow stuff, because this to me, even though there

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Speaker 2: is a lot to get into with what Nick Kral

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Speaker 2: had to say about Elie Dai ly Cruz and I

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Speaker 2: know we'll give our thoughts and opinions on that the

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Speaker 2: Joe Burrow stuff to me is fascinating and I want

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Speaker 2: to do here in segment one, I want to I

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Speaker 2: want to get the audio ready with Zach Taylor and

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Speaker 2: Tom Brenhaman this morning and we'll set it up here

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Speaker 2: in a way if you're following along. We heard from

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Speaker 2: Zach Taylor yesterday and Zach said that Joe would would

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Speaker 2: do some eleven on eleven and yesterday's practice, and then

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Speaker 2: yesterday's practice happened and Joe Burrow not only practiced, but

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Speaker 2: he was listed on the injury report as a full participant. Now,

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Speaker 2: this is my first indication, Austin, and what I believe

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Speaker 2: is Joe Burrow getting ready to play if the Bengals

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Speaker 2: wanted to. The opening part of practice is open to

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Speaker 2: the media and then it's closed. Correct, Correct, So Joe

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Speaker 2: Burrow could have went through his normal early routine and

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Speaker 2: then practice happens and the media is no, and the

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Speaker 2: Bengals could have listed Joe Burrow as limited. They listed

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Speaker 2: him as a full participant. That to me says that

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Speaker 2: Joe Burrow is gonna play. If not, just say he's

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Speaker 2: limited because you're still working through some stuff. And I

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Speaker 2: don't think anyone would have bought it an eye if

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Speaker 2: the injury report came out yesterday and it was Joe

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Speaker 2: Burrow limited and we heard that he took some eleven

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Speaker 2: on eleven reps, would you have been surprised by that?

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Speaker 3: No, Instead, he's a full participant. The important part here

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Speaker 3: is Jake Browning. Now, Zach Taylor told us Joe Flacco

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Speaker 3: is not going to throw, which means he's not gonna

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Speaker 3: take the eleven on eleven reps. And in order for

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Speaker 3: an injured player who's in that twenty one day window

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Speaker 3: to be listed as a full participant in practice, they

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Speaker 3: have to take one hundred percent of the first team reps,

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Speaker 3: which means Jake Browning did not take any first team

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Speaker 3: reps yesterday, correct, Which tells me it's either Joe Flacco

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Speaker 3: or Joe Burrow. Yes, now, it could very well be

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Speaker 3: today where Flacco continues on the plan sure like he

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Speaker 3: has been, and he's listed as limited and Burrow's listed

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Speaker 3: as limited. If they split the first team reps of practice,

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Speaker 3: I feel like that's probably where we're going. And then

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Speaker 3: we get to Friday and Joe will both Joe's will

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Speaker 3: be listed as questionable. That's how I think we're that's

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Speaker 3: the direction I think we're going. But the fact that

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Speaker 3: Browning didn't take any tells me it's gonna be one

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Speaker 3: of the Joe's. It is Uh, it's incredible. Can we

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Speaker 3: do can we uh, let's do this. Let's break a

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Speaker 3: little early. Then let's come back with the audio of

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Speaker 3: Zach Taylor with Tom Brenneman, and then we'll react to

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Speaker 3: that as well. Knowing the practice report from yesterday, it's

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Speaker 3: since he three to sixty on ESPN fifteen thirty, Cincinnati

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Speaker 3: Sports Station, thanks to our friends at Scott.

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Speaker 1: This is Football in the NATTI, brought to you by

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Speaker 1: Postman Law on ESPN fifteen point thirty, the official home

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Speaker 1: of the Cincinnati Bengals.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome back. It is since he three to sixty.

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Speaker 2: This is part of now Football in the NATI thanks

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Speaker 2: to Skyline Chilly here now number one. Okay, as if

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Speaker 2: what we described yesterday and the way Zach described what

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Speaker 2: practice was going to be like, and then the injury

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Speaker 2: report that came out, there was already people going and

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Speaker 2: running with it yesterday. Dan rolofsky on NFL Live yesterday said, oh,

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Speaker 2: he was a full participant. He's playing on Sunday, he's

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Speaker 2: going to be under center. Well, then you fast forward

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Speaker 2: to earlier this morning, Tom Brendan down the Hall in

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Speaker 2: Wow did his weekly hit with Zach Taylor. Take a

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Speaker 2: listen to Zach Taylor's comments with Tom Brendan earlier this morning.

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Speaker 2: Starting with what Zach Taylor saw from Joe Burrow yesterday's practice.

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Speaker 5: I was pleased. I thought he looked good first day,

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Speaker 5: taking eleven on eleven reps and so that was a

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Speaker 5: great starting point for him and hadn't done that for

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Speaker 5: two months, so I was pleased for myself.

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Speaker 4: He is listed as a full participant. Is Joe Burrow

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Speaker 4: going to play on Sunday?

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Speaker 2: Well, we don't know that yet.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's kind of a balance of Joe Flacco

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Speaker 5: has n't been practicing on Wednesdays, so it was a

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Speaker 5: great opportunity to get Joe Burrow out there to take

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Speaker 5: as many reps as possible. So yeah, he took all

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Speaker 5: the revs. But but that was a balance with Joe

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Speaker 5: has not been practicing on Wednesdays last few weeks, and

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Speaker 5: so we'll just keep working through these next couple of days.

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Speaker 4: When do you plan on making a decision about that?

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Speaker 4: Because Look, it's what everybody's talking about. I mean, you

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Speaker 4: were born maybe at night, but not last night. You

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Speaker 4: know that. That's what everybody is talking about. Is Joe

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Speaker 4: Burrow coming back? So you know, I mean, is there,

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Speaker 4: let's put it this way, is there a chance that

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Speaker 4: he plays Sunday?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not there yet.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's one day of practice. Isn't going to

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Speaker 5: lead to that decision yet? So what's the time we

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Speaker 5: have at our disposal and come with the best decision

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Speaker 5: we can.

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Speaker 4: Are you amazed by how quickly he's recovered from this.

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Speaker 4: I have Julieu Isfording, who was an Olympian marathon runner.

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Speaker 4: She had the same thing, did you? Joe Burrow said

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Speaker 4: it was the most grueling rehab that she's ever been through,

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Speaker 4: and she's been through back surgeries and knee surgeries and

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Speaker 4: all that kind of thing. Are you even amazed that

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Speaker 4: he's even on the practice field at this point in time?

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Speaker 5: Am I amazed?

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Speaker 6: Now?

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Speaker 5: Because I've watched this guy for the last six years

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Speaker 5: and I've seen him. He's obviously wired different than everybody else.

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Speaker 5: That's why he's who he That's why he's a national champion,

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Speaker 5: Heisman Trophy winning first pick in the draft, all that

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Speaker 5: kind of stuff, NFL comeback player, the all the stuff

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Speaker 5: that he's earned.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 5: I've just now seen enough to where I just know

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Speaker 5: that's who he is. And this isn't the first rehab

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Speaker 5: he's had to go through, so he knew what that

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Speaker 5: process was. Obviously different injuries. Proud of him, not surprised.

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Speaker 5: Maybe surprises the rest of the world, but it's really

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Speaker 5: impressive the work that he's done to get back on

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Speaker 5: the field as quickly as he did.

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Speaker 4: You have to make a decision, and you'll consult with others.

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Speaker 4: But will this be a situation where Joe might come

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Speaker 4: into you, Joe Burrow, he might come to you and say, hey,

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Speaker 4: you know, coach, I feel like I'm ready to go.

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Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, And then that's that's that's my job,

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Speaker 6: you know, to balance balance all the information and protect

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Speaker 6: the player and and make the.

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Speaker 5: Best decision possible. But yeah, absolutely, he's he's certainly got

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Speaker 5: his opinions when he's put in the work and feels

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Speaker 5: how he does, and and we'll balance all that information.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 4: Come on, come on, coach, come on, I'm going to

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Speaker 4: circle back to it one more time.

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Speaker 3: I have to do it.

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Speaker 4: Come on, there are more people that listening to this

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Speaker 4: morning show than than anywhere else and they are huge

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Speaker 4: me too, Bengal fan. Come on, coach, you can tell

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Speaker 4: us right now. Burrow's playing it. He's playing it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, No, I wish I could. I wish I had

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Speaker 5: that decision today, you know, honestly, it's I'm going to

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Speaker 5: take in all the information I can and make sure

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Speaker 5: it's the best one for for Joe and our team

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Speaker 5: and we'll go from there.

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Speaker 2: All right. I have so many thoughts on this.

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Speaker 3: So first of all, great job by Dyeah, just right

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Speaker 3: right to the point.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, awesome stuff by Tom So I'll I'll give my

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Speaker 2: thoughts here, and then Austin, I want to take your

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Speaker 2: thoughts as well. That to me, right off the job,

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Speaker 2: I've listened to that like three times. That doesn't sound

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Speaker 2: like a coach who's teams three and seven, who's been

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Speaker 2: dealing with pressure and stress and frustration. It doesn't sound

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Speaker 2: like a coach that's preparing for one of the best

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Speaker 2: teams in football without his best player in Jamar Chase.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't sound like a coach beaten down over the

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Speaker 2: course of the season with rumors about his job and

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Speaker 2: how bad this defense is. That sounds like a coach

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Speaker 2: to me early in the morning on a Thursday afternoon.

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Speaker 2: That's got a little pepinist step. Why you can put

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Speaker 2: two and two together. But I go back to the

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Speaker 2: injury report yesterday and I go back to Zach Taylor

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Speaker 2: while not saying Joe is going to start on Sunday

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Speaker 2: or Joe's going to play on Sunday, also left the

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Speaker 2: door open multiple times with Tom Brenneman where he could

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Speaker 2: have shut it down. Well, you know, this is part

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Speaker 2: of the rehab process. It was always going to be

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Speaker 2: Joe on Wednesday and then Flacco on Thursday, but he's

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Speaker 2: not quite there yet. He left the door open for everything.

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Speaker 2: And what I think is one of the most important

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Speaker 2: parts and takeaways of what we just heard between Zach

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Speaker 2: and Tom is Zach saying, of course Joe is gonna

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Speaker 2: want to play, but me, as the coach, it's my

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Speaker 2: job to make sure it's in the best interest of

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Speaker 2: Joe as well. That to me is all this comes

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Speaker 2: down to. If this team were let's say, going into

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Speaker 2: week sixteen or seventeen, and it was a must win

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Speaker 2: to make the playoffs, and Joe Burrow was eighty percent.

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Speaker 2: But you want to play him because he gives you

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Speaker 2: the best chance to win, then I'm playing him at

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Speaker 2: that point in the season. If not for Sunday, then

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Speaker 2: I have to rely on the trainers. I went on

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Speaker 2: with with Scott Sloane earlier this morning. I talked about this,

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Speaker 2: and we have Bob Manjen on most weeks from the

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Speaker 2: University of Cincinnati. I was so lucky at the University

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Speaker 2: of Cincinnati because Bob Manjean and others, regardless of all

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Speaker 2: other pressures or how quick can we get someone back,

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Speaker 2: I knew that the training staff at you See had

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Speaker 2: my best interest in mind, and that made things easier

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Speaker 2: for me. Of Course, I want to play. I want

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Speaker 2: to get out there. The training staff is the one

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Speaker 2: that doesn't care to have to be the bad guy. Sometimes.

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Speaker 2: If Bob Manjean told me you're good, you can go play,

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Speaker 2: then I'm going to listen to him and go play.

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Speaker 2: And that is the same way I view this for

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Speaker 2: the Bengals and their training staff and coaching staff. If

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Speaker 2: Joe Burrow is good to go, and Joe Burrow is

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Speaker 2: medically cleared and they have confidence that he can operate

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Speaker 2: the way that he needs to operate for this team

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Speaker 2: to be successful and for him to be safe, and

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Speaker 2: they're signing off on that, then I have to trust them.

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Speaker 2: I have to trust the team, the doctors, the medical

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Speaker 2: staff that they are operating with the best interest of

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Speaker 2: their franchise quarterback. And if that means Joe can play

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Speaker 2: on Sunday, then I'm all for Joe playing on Sunday,

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Speaker 2: because that's the inner workings. Zach Taylor meets with the

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Speaker 2: training staff multiple times per day every day to get updates.

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Speaker 2: That's how that works. He has been hand in hand

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Speaker 2: along this whole process and has probably known that this

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Speaker 2: was a possibility since the boot came off of Joe Burrow.

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Speaker 2: Now one could say, well, what if Joe's just saying

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Speaker 2: is okay, but he's really in a lot of pain.

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Speaker 2: That's fine. They're taking images, they're doing x rays, you're

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Speaker 2: having MRIs. You can tell how much it's healed. And

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Speaker 2: you also have to weigh the risk. What if he

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Speaker 2: gets stepped on under center? Is he willing to go

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Speaker 2: under center? Is he able to go under center? Can

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Speaker 2: you operate the way you want to If he's not

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Speaker 2: able to go under center, can he with stand a hit.

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Speaker 2: Can he withstand a three hundred pound human stepping on

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Speaker 2: his foot in the scenario where that happens. Can he

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Speaker 2: navigate the pocket in a way that is successful and

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Speaker 2: safe for him to do so? And at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day, if that training staff says yes, then

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Speaker 2: I am all for Joe Burrow going out there and

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Speaker 2: playing again. If he's eighty percent and you're in week

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Speaker 2: sixteen and you have to win, then maybe you have

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Speaker 2: to roll the dice. But at three and seven, I

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Speaker 2: don't feel like they're rolling the dice. At three and seven.

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Speaker 2: I feel like they're like, you're healthy, go play, you

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Speaker 2: don't have the limitations. And if that's the case, then

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Speaker 2: he was a full participant yesterday and that's the way

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Speaker 2: Zach Taylor was this morning. And they're not shooting it down,

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Speaker 2: then that leads me to believe that Joe Burrow can

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Speaker 2: go do it. So then I am four Joe Burrow

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Speaker 2: going in doing it. Yes, I agree with you. I

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Speaker 2: will think back though to the calf injury. Okay, he

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Speaker 2: was not ready to play in Week one against Cleveland,

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Speaker 2: and out of doubt, that game was a slugfest in

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Speaker 2: the rain. It was miserable, he couldn't move. They got destroyed.

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Speaker 2: Week two looked a.

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Speaker 3: Lot better against Baltimore, but what happened Joe Burrow towards

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Speaker 3: the end of the game reaggravated the calf. That week,

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Speaker 3: going into a Monday night game against the Rams, we

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Speaker 3: had the famous golf cart ride with Mike Brown, and

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Speaker 3: it was understandable if Joe Burrow were to not play

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Speaker 3: in that game. Now, the Bengals were zero and two,

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Speaker 3: but it was understandable if a guy had reaggravated that

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Speaker 3: calf that he wouldn't play in that game. And by

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Speaker 3: all indications that conversation was meant to be Joe. We

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Speaker 3: got to think long term here, and I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's a good idea that you play and Joe Burrow

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Speaker 3: played anyways. I think they give him the benefit of

432
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 3: the doubt, that he knows how his body feels, and

433
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 3: if he feels like he can play, they will allow

434
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 3: him to play. That is the precedent that was set

435
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 3: with the calf injury. And so I'm already seeing people

436
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 3: basically accusing the Bengals of rushing him back. Well, if

437
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 3: they were rushing him back, first of all, nobody expected

438
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,640
Speaker 3: this to happen. Nobody thought we'd be where we are

439
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 3: right now. They to the point that you just made,

440
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 3: have a system and a process that they have to

441
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 3: go to to even get to this point. And if

442
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 3: a player is medically cleared and feels comfortable doing so playing,

443
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 3: how is that considered rushing him back? And I do

444
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 3: think there is something to be said about the fact

445
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 3: that they are three and seven and if they have

446
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 3: any hope at all, they have to win the last

447
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 3: seven games. Now, are that gonna happen?

448
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: Maybe not.

449
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: I also think it's risky that you have to turn

450
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 3: right back around and play on Thursday. And when you consider,

451
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 3: you know, the stress that that foot will be under

452
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 3: and that toe will be under, and all you got

453
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 3: to deal with and the recovery and the short you know,

454
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 3: I think that's a fair criticism and meaning for pause.

455
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 3: But if the guy feels good enough to do all

456
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 3: that he's done so far, has proven to be a

457
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 3: fast healer multiple times over the course of his career,

458
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 3: is medically cleared to do so, and gives you the

459
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,400
Speaker 3: best chance to win, even if it's first game back.

460
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow, and we've seen by the way that Joe

461
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: Burrow needs reps. He's normally not very good in the

462
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 3: month of September. He's normally not very good when he's

463
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 3: just starting his season. So he might come out and play,

464
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 3: let's say, play Sunday, might not play that. Well, that's

465
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 3: a possibility. But if he feels like he can do it,

466
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 3: and if medically there's no reason not to, and you

467
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,479
Speaker 3: have the right thing in his shoe to help protect him,

468
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: why wouldn't he do it?

469
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that to me is the key. If the

470
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 2: training staff were saying you can play, but you can't

471
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 2: get stepped on, well, then I think twice about it,

472
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: Like if he gets stepped on and it completely resets

473
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: his his recovery. And now you're talking about this lingering

474
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 2: into the offseason, which then lingers into another weird transition

475
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: where you don't get a normal offseason for Joe Burrow.

476
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: That's a different story when you're talking about a guy

477
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: that's coming back as early as he did. Austin, I

478
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 2: was with you and this injury happened. I didn't think

479
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: we'd see him the rest of the year.

480
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 3: No, I confidently said, no chance.

481
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 2: And if so, I'm thinking, like, Okay, Miami run out

482
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,959
Speaker 2: the last three games. You got to get some reps. Anyway,

483
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: he has shattered that. I am trusting training staff. And

484
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 2: again the scenarios you described, the calf and the golf

485
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,239
Speaker 2: cart ride. One could argue the Bengals needed to do

486
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 2: more for Joe Burrow to say we get it, but

487
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 2: you're not doing it. That's what I want on this situation.

488
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: If he's good, and you, as a training staff are

489
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 2: confident that he's good, then go play.

490
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: I also don't think anybody in life or in football

491
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: should get into the habit of doing everything out of

492
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 3: an abundance of fear. Yes, it's possible that he gets

493
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 3: re injured. It's possible that every single player that plays

494
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 3: Sunday gets injured. That's the nature of the National Football

495
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 3: League and I've outlined it before. Burrow's injuries most of

496
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 3: the time have just been unlucky. It's not been you know,

497
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 3: stuff that you would consider to be injury prone injuries

498
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 3: is foot got stuck in the turf, the play and

499
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 3: how Jamar Chase didn't win at the line of scrimmage,

500
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 3: stuff that really has nothing to do with whether or

501
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 3: not a player is injury prone. But yes, he's been

502
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: injured more than the average player, But I don't think

503
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: it's wise to operate out of fear. Now you could say, okay, well,

504
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 3: the Bengals need to lose some games to get a

505
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 3: better draft pick. I would hear you, and dear god,

506
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 3: I've seen this defense. I don't know if Joe playing

507
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 3: is going to matter that much, but he wants to play,

508
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 3: He's healthy enough to play, he's being paid to play.

509
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 3: Why not play?

510
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 2: There's also this and we'll get a break in. There's

511
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 2: also this at at the very core of this. If

512
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow were at all limited Austin and oh, by

513
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 2: the way, you don't have Jamar Chase, wouldn't you think

514
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,880
Speaker 2: that would be reason to push it off for one

515
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 2: more week? He's got a field darn good to be like, yeah,

516
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 2: I'm good to go even without Jamar Chase out there.

517
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: Well, I would push back and say, what if that

518
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 3: accelerated the timeline in his mind? Oh crap, we don't

519
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 3: have Jamar. That really got to get out there.

520
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 2: I just I don't know if you want to risk,

521
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: if you're unsure, you're gonna hold onto the ball a

522
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 2: little bit longer. When Chase isn't out there because now

523
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 2: the defense is able to shift to that. Now t

524
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: Higgins gets all the attention. Your other guy's got to

525
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 2: win one on one matchups. I think there is an

526
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: inherent risk of doing it without Jamar Chase, and I

527
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: think the idea that he's still willing to do that,

528
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,719
Speaker 2: and if so, again this we can have practice today Austin,

529
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: and it could be Joe Flacco took the reps and

530
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 2: Joe Burrow was limited and we're right back to this

531
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: and then we're talking about Thanksgiving and can Joe play

532
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: because you make the point as well, do you want

533
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 2: him to play Sunday and then have a quick turnaround

534
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 2: and play Thursday night. That's all warranted. We'll get more

535
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,479
Speaker 2: information today, but this is us doing what we have

536
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: with the information we've been given to this point.

537
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 3: And I do think it's noteworthy that the tone and

538
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 3: the voice of Zach Taylor, we have listened to hours

539
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: of this guy talk, he never sounds like that, almost

540
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 3: nesting to him Sunday Monday and wind sounds like that.

541
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 3: Now they haven't been winning a lot, and he wasn't

542
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 3: talking directly after a loss, so that probably has something

543
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: to do with it, But yeah, I mean it's just

544
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 3: I have no problem with that. I think that one

545
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 3: of the questions needs to be answered too, is is

546
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 3: Joe Burrow at whatever percentage he is? Yeah, because I

547
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 3: think it's probably unfair to think he's one hundred percent.

548
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 3: He might be looking like it and acting like that,

549
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: but still you're coming off of a surgery that was eight,

550
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 3: nine weeks ago, whatever it was. So let's say he's

551
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 3: eighty five percent. Is Joe Burrow at eighty five percent

552
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 3: a better player and a better chance to win than

553
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 3: either of the following two options, Jake Browning at one

554
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 3: hundred percent or Joe Flacco at let's say seventy five

555
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: percent with his shoulder.

556
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: As long as that eighty five percent doesn't run the

557
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 2: risk of going back to.

558
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 3: Zero percent, Well it does with every player.

559
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: But see so in my personal experience, I played less

560
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 2: than one hundred percent, but I was given the guarantee.

561
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: I was given the understanding you could get hurt, but

562
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: it's not going to be it's not going to be

563
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 2: worse than what it is right now. Like if you're like,

564
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 2: it would have been different for me if it was like, hey,

565
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: if you take a hit, and you fall this way,

566
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 2: you're going to be reset back to zero it was.

567
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: It might hurt, but you're not going to do any

568
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: more damage to it, right, And so for me, I'm like, Okay,

569
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 2: I'm eighty percent, but I'm playing because nothing else is

570
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 2: going to happen.

571
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 3: Would the people that have pause about this be more

572
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 3: concerned about a re injury of the toe or a

573
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: another injury?

574
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 2: Well, see, that's that's the thing, because I feel like

575
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: that you had gone through this vigorous rehab process. Have

576
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 2: you put so much focus on the toe that now

577
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: you're going to run the risk of a calf injury?

578
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 3: Well, you know, last time Joe talked, he said he's

579
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 3: been lifting for weeks, right, and they've been kind of

580
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 3: doing still doing doing all the upper body stuff. And

581
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 3: you know, that's that's a question we don't really know

582
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: the answer to, honestly because we're not in the room,

583
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 3: but because it feels like to me, the hesitation has

584
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 3: been more about he's just gonna get hurt again, yeah,

585
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 3: and not about oh, he's going to reinjure the tow.

586
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. So's what's interesting here. I don't know that there's

587
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 2: a difference, but yeah, I mean, it's all fair and

588
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 2: it's stuff again. We can see how today plays out.

589
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: Maybe tomorrow's a different conversation. But it's just interesting that

590
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: on a day where we're talking about Joe Burrow playing

591
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 2: through injury, you're coming back from injury. Nick Kral made

592
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 2: some interesting comments about Elie Da La Cruz and Bump

593
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 2: bum By. Oh my, do we need to discuss that

594
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: as well? We'll do so next On ESPN fifteen thirty,

595
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: Cincinnati Sports Station. Thanks to sky Linchiley, you've.

596
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: Been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN fifteen thirty,

597
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

598
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: Your favorite neighborhood spots run on score.

599
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 3: This is Dave Laflock and you're listening to the Home

600
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 3: of the Bengals, ESPN fifteen thirty.

601
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 2: Murder Bootshin Kobe seven point two, Paul.

602
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 3: Fake into Kobe checked Byoftia, down to five, down to four,

603
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 3: game on the line. Right here, he takes Murray, he

604
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: ducks Utter, boots.

605
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 2: For the wind By Fin has done it again.

606
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 3: Put some respects. Oh fuci made's name bag Bag Bag Lake,

607
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 3: game Killer?

608
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 2: What's coming back to Chicago? What's coming back home? But

609
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 2: Carneac Bulls do it again. Well, y'all gonna put some

610
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: respect on Fochie Maine's names.

611
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 1: Watch this right here, the run, the little misdirection made

612
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: three point basket.

613
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: Here it is right here. Boji said, what's the respect

614
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 2: of my name? Get it out the neck?

615
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 3: Bang bang bye bang bang by.

616
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 2: Good played by Kobe White. Oh, that's that's deep. Three

617
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: point that's that's over. This is a rap, Chicago. It's

618
00:32:51,760 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: a rap. Oh drive home safely bed. That is so good.

619
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: Oh, Stacy King is the absolute best. Get it out

620
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 3: the net, so flipping good man.

621
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 2: Get it out the net. I love his excitement. And then,

622
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 2: like in the most callboys, a great play by Kobe.

623
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: It was.

624
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 3: It was ridiculous played by Kobe.

625
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 2: But like in the excitement, he could have been like,

626
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 2: what a play He's like, great play by Kobe.

627
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 3: Chicago. That was the call of the Chicago Sports Network.

628
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: Stacey King, you heard there is the Chicago Bulls their

629
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 3: second buzzer beater, victory of the year. Second buzzer beater

630
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 3: by Vucci Man.

631
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 2: Vucci Man, so good man. That's our call of the day,

632
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 2: brought to you by our friends of wind Schulers. Thanks

633
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 2: to our friends of Win Schulers. Their four delicious cheese

634
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 2: spreads pair well with anything for the holiday season.

635
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 3: I think I saw he's like vooches is passed, like

636
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 3: Ben Gordon on the Bulls All Time list or something,

637
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 3: which is kind of hard to believe. Focx Ben Gordon

638
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: probably beating somebody up at an airport right now.

639
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: Now you want to talk about hard to believe, You

640
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: want to talk about hard to believe. There were many

641
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: folks that watched all season for the Cincinnati Reds and

642
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,240
Speaker 2: they probably thought, man, something just looks off with Ellie.

643
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 7: Right.

644
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 2: Defense was a problem. He wasn't hitting for power, wasn't

645
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 2: stealing a ton of bases. It just the electricity wasn't there.

646
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: You know, a slow ground out what it would happen,

647
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, he's gonna beat that out and

648
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 2: he'd get thrown out by two or three steps. Just

649
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 2: things we had seen from Ellie and it just didn't

650
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 2: seem right. But the season went and they finished up

651
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: and Ellie played, and you know he wanted to make

652
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: the point, wants to play one sixty two, wants to

653
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: be the shortstop, wants to do all this, and you

654
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 2: kind of just thought Okay, maybe you know he he

655
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 2: was dealing with some stuff. He's going through some hard time,

656
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 2: like just an offseason. It's off season, and the season

657
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:54,319
Speaker 2: ended and you didn't really hear anything, so you kind

658
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 2: of just put it to bed. And then yesterday we're

659
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 2: enthralled with everything going on with Joe burn and then

660
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: Nick Krawl steps up on the Red's hot stove and

661
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: has this to say about one Ellie de la Cruz.

662
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 7: So, if you look at his year last year, and

663
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 7: I think a lot of people don't know this, at

664
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 7: the end of the year, towards the end of July,

665
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 7: he was dealing with a partial torn quad and he

666
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 7: has been rehabbing. He's at the ballpark. He was at

667
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 7: the ballpark today. He's been rehabbing over the last this

668
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 7: whole offseason. To his credit, he played every day. He

669
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 7: tried to grind through it. He tried to play through it.

670
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 7: If you look at his defensive numbers, he made twelve

671
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 7: airs through roughly towards the end of July when he

672
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 7: got hurt, and then he made fourteen from the end

673
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 7: of July on. He's trying to play through it. He

674
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 7: wasn't able to do it as successful as possible. I

675
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 7: think he had a stretch of games where he had

676
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 7: nineteen homers and he didn't hit one until some point

677
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 7: in September. That's going to affect him. That's gonna affect

678
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,880
Speaker 7: everything he does. But to his credit, he was trying

679
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 7: to play every single day through it. He tried to

680
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 7: grind through it, and to the detriment of himself, he

681
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 7: didn't play up to where he was. But a large

682
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 7: part of that is because he's trying to play through

683
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 7: the injury. So I do think that you look at

684
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 7: where he was up until that point where he got hurt,

685
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 7: and he was definitely better defensively.

686
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 2: It's just he.

687
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 7: He didn't finish the way he started.

688
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 2: This infuriates me. This eats away at me because here

689
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 2: we are talking about for Joe Burrow and the organization

690
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 2: having his best interest in mind, and there are a

691
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: couple things here he went on to talk about, you know,

692
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: he's still rehabbing this, which is also worrisome because the

693
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: scene has been over for some time and he's still rehabbing.

694
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: The injury is still not one hundred percent. But here's

695
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: what infuriates me. Austin is not only to say that

696
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 2: Ellie was dealing with that injury. But to go on

697
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: and then almost back up that Ellie's bad play was

698
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 2: due to the injury. He made all the airs, or

699
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,800
Speaker 2: made a majority of the airs because because of the injury.

700
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 2: He wasn't hitting for power because of the injury. So

701
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: here's my issue. Your star player is trying to play hurt.

702
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: Kudos to him for wanting to be out there every day,

703
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: but while being out there, this would be like the

704
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: equivalent Austin of Joe Burrow going out there and playing

705
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 2: Sunday and taking like nine sacks and throwing three picks

706
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: because he's he's he's not one hundred percent, you know

707
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: what I mean. But instead Nick Krawl just says kudos

708
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: to him for playing through it when he went through

709
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: this stretch of a home run law and he went

710
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: through this stretch of making all these airs that are

711
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 2: directly correlated to him being injured, and no one inside

712
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 2: this organization sat Ellie de la Cruz down and said,

713
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 2: you've got to sit down for a while. You've got

714
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: to take a seat. You can't you can't play every day.

715
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 2: We got to get you healthy. It's not worth it.

716
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: At this point, there was a point, they dropped him

717
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 2: in the order.

718
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 3: Again.

719
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 2: We were enraged all season one. Why is Ellie playing

720
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,919
Speaker 2: every day? Why is he batting third? He's not good

721
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 2: in the field right now, he's not hitting home runs.

722
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,479
Speaker 2: And here goes Nick Crawl to say, well, the reason

723
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 2: he was doing that because he was playing injured. Someone

724
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: has to have the back of your players within the

725
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: organization to say, I respect the heck out of what

726
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 2: you're trying to do, but it ain't working.

727
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 3: Instead, we got Terry Francona saying, oh, he's got a leg. Yep,

728
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 3: that was the explanation. If you remember back in late July,

729
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 3: early August, Terry Francona was like, he's dealing with some stuff.

730
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 3: He's got a leg. That was the most that we got.

731
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 3: It's just it was irresponsible, I think, by the ball club,

732
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 3: by the manager, by the president of baseball operations, by

733
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: the ownership group, by everybody. Here's our best player dealing

734
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 3: with a semi serious injury and it's causing him to

735
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 3: perform poorly, which ultimately is hurting the baseball team. Let's

736
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 3: consider pivoting on our plan. Just because I say I

737
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 3: want to do something at work doesn't mean I get

738
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 3: to do it right. Like perfect example, training camp this

739
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 3: past year. I really wanted to work on those training

740
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 3: camp shows. I wanted to be a part of that,

741
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 3: and I asked to be, but I was told no.

742
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 3: Unfortunate for me. But I don't get all that. I

743
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 3: don't get what I want all the time. Elie de

744
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 3: la Cruz wants to play one hundred and sixty two games, right, well,

745
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 3: too bad, you're hurt. You're not helping the team. You've

746
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 3: got to sit down.

747
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:30,919
Speaker 2: Yep.

748
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 3: Just because a star player says he wants to do

749
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 3: something doesn't mean he gets to do it. And by

750
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 3: the way, you can apply that same logic to Joe Burrow.

751
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 2: That's what I mean.

752
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 3: The Bengals can say, no, man, we're not ready, it's

753
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 3: not the right time.

754
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: Or he can go out there on Sunday and play

755
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 2: poorly in the Bengals say, man, it's just in word,

756
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: We're gonna set your back down.

757
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 3: Correct, like that's it's okay to do that. And in

758
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 3: that sense, you're putting the baseball team ahead of the player,

759
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 3: which is what it should always be.

760
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 2: Who's to say they couldn't have sat him down for

761
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 2: two weeks and come back and all of a sudden

762
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 2: he's better in the field and at the play. Yeah,

763
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: and then you get more out of him. You hurt

764
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 2: the team exactly, and you hurt the interest of your

765
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: best player.

766
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 7: Right.

767
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 2: It is irresponsible from the program. That is infuriating to

768
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 2: me from Nick Krall.

769
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 3: And I listen, I'm sure Ellie is not innocent in this.

770
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: No, but that's not Ellie's job. Elle's job is to

771
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: want to play, true.

772
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 3: It's just it's further proof I just don't have any

773
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 3: faith in this organization. And let's let's go back to

774
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 3: the conversation we had earlier this week about Hunter Green.

775
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 3: Hunter Green kind of doing his own thing, his own

776
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,279
Speaker 3: timeline and getting himself ready and getting himself back. Now,

777
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 3: he was criticized for that, and I don't know that

778
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 3: that went over all that well internally, But there is

779
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 3: a reason there's a distrust between a player and the organization.

780
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 3: This could be an example of that, like sometimes you

781
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 3: got to protect someone from himself. It's just it's it's

782
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 3: really upsetting to hear that, and that dude, that dude

783
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 3: had a lot going on last year.

784
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 2: Yep.

785
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 3: And I understand that baseball is probably a good way

786
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:23,319
Speaker 3: for him to escape, and that's fair. But also, if

787
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 3: he has ten days on the injured list yep, and

788
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 3: he's still around his team and he's still in the

789
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 3: dugout and he's getting treatment and all of that, is

790
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 3: that really going to change things all that much? Correct,

791
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 3: Because in that stretching games, he wasn't winning games for him.

792
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: So there was a clip that I saw because one

793
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 2: of my buddies reposted it and it was a Marcus

794
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 2: Freeman when he was an assistant coach at Purdue. Yeah,

795
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: and the clip is Marcus Freeman and he says this,

796
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 2: I'm not here to be your friend. I'm here to

797
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 2: push you. I'm here to challenge you, and I'm here

798
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 2: to help you be successful. That's the job. That's the standard.

799
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: I'm a coach that needs to be applied to this

800
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 2: situation with the reds Ellie. I love you, I want

801
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 2: to be your friend, but more importantly, I'm here to

802
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: make sure that you're successful and I have your best

803
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 2: interest in mind. You got to trust me on this one.

804
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,240
Speaker 2: You're not helping us right now, you're not helping yourself.

805
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 2: You got to sit down. I'm also that's the job

806
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 2: of that's the job of a team. I'm surprised that

807
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: this happened from Terry Francone. Of course, if David Bell

808
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 2: had done this, I don't know that I would have

809
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 2: been that surprised. Players coach just you know, more of

810
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 2: that type of personality. But Francona, he's brought in for

811
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: this type of stuff, for the tough love in the

812
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 2: development of a young player. And you know, to me,

813
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: I think that also from a player's perspective, you could

814
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 2: answer this better than me. Almost shows seeds of distrust

815
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 2: in the sense of you're not doing what's best for

816
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 2: us to win.

817
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 3: Yep, you think Ellie's teammates were out there watching him

818
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,839
Speaker 3: and thinking, this, dude gives us the best chance to win.

819
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: What's hurt me, what worries me is the situation of, man,

820
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 2: if we sit Ellie for two weeks, so what's that

821
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 2: mean for people coming to the games? You know, I've

822
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 2: heard this with Joe Burrow too, and it's like that

823
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: if that's ever a thought, then we're in a completely

824
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: different stratosphere. There are people out there, people I've talked

825
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 2: to today that believe the whole Joe Burrow thing is

826
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,320
Speaker 2: a ruse to get people to buy tickets to the

827
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: game on Sunday. How would it affect the Reds if

828
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: Ellie were to be out for three weeks?

829
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:44,759
Speaker 3: Yeah?

830
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: I mean that would be less people going to the games. Sure,

831
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 2: who cares? Your job is to make sure that your

832
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: player's taking care of And who's to say that a

833
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 2: two or three week rest period for Ellie Daily Cruiz

834
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,720
Speaker 2: wouldn't have had him come back on a healthy tear

835
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: that carried this team to the playoffs and more. We

836
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 2: don't know that. All we know is the stretch Ellie

837
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 2: went on without hitting a home run, without stealing bases,

838
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 2: with making a ton of airs because he was compromised.

839
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 3: I really hope that that's not a conversation that's at

840
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 3: I'm you and me, both you and me both regarding

841
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 3: ticket sales.

842
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 2: Yep, all right, let's do this. Let's take a break,

843
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,319
Speaker 2: let's come back. We'll finish up our number one. We've

844
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 2: got John Sheeran eight of E Sports. We'll talk more

845
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 2: about Joe Burrow and the Cincinnati Bengals talkbacks. We've got

846
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 2: Kyle Schwarber audio we'll get to as we go this

847
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 2: afternoon as well. We got a ton of time left.

848
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: Stick with us on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station

849
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:50,240
Speaker 2: thanks to Skyline Chili school my goodness to Angel Ridge

850
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 2: from Jeff Henry on a Thursday afternoon. It just hits

851
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 2: a little bit differently. Happy to have you along since

852
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 2: he three to sixty thanks to Skyline Chili on esp

853
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 2: fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Hopefully Jeff sometime in twenty

854
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 2: twenty six can get us that new album and we

855
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 2: can change that out for one of his new songs.

856
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 2: We'll wait and see. I know Jeff is listening, so

857
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 2: shout out to him. Shout out to you for being

858
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,399
Speaker 2: along with this as well. We've got two hours still

859
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 2: to go. John Sheeran is gonna kick things off in

860
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 2: our number two from eight. His is E Sports covering

861
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: the Cincinnati Bengals. We've talked Bengals and Burrow, We've talked

862
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: Red's and Ellie. We've got to talk more on the

863
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 2: Cincinnati Bengals and the New England Patriots when we return

864
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 2: our number two next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports

865
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 2: Station until u c K.

866
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 4: Wise Cincinnati, make us the number one pre set on

867
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 4: your car radio and on the free New and Improved

868
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app free never sounded so good ESPN fifteen thirty.

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00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 3: More than a few of our patients have talked