1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on z WBC, Boston's 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: news radio. 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 2: Boy's cold out there, much colder than I remember winter being. 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: And I used to like cold. I was proud, I 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: was strong bringing on the winter. But now I'm all set. 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 2: I don't like summer and I don't like winter. There's 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 2: not much left for me. Now we're going to talk 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: about talk about Boston. I love talking about Boston stuff, 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 2: and I love talking about Boston transit. And we have 10 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 2: an expert, a fanatic a Boston transit. I won't say 11 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: geek in a bad way, but you know what I mean, 12 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: Stephen Buche had the right Stephen. Stephen is many things. 13 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: One of them is the owner or the operator of 14 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: the well known MBTA store on mass Ave between Harvard 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,560 Speaker 2: and Porter. I walked by it all the time. I 16 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: went in only one time because it's across the street 17 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: from my route, and I had no idea until today 18 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: you were the proprietor of that store becoming up closing 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: that microphone there talk about the store. There are a 20 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 2: lot of MBTA people out there. I don't even know 21 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: if they know about the store. 22 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,319 Speaker 3: So yeah, besides being an unabashed transit geek been a 23 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 3: long time rail fan. H Since inception, we've run MBTA Gifts, 24 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 3: which is the tea's merchandise program, essentially their gift shop. 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 2: Did you grow up wanting to open an MBTA store? 26 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 2: When did that spark hit you? 27 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 3: I always grew up wanted to do to do anything 28 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 3: with trains and transit. 29 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 4: I grew up out in the suburbs. 30 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: Which your first train memory. 31 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 3: My first train memory is sitting in the car seat 32 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: at the back of the seat. I don't know what 33 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 3: two three years old train goes by and just making 34 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 3: noises at the train. I think my first words or 35 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 3: vocalizations where we're just talking to the train as it 36 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 3: was going by Soma. 37 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 2: It was something like chow chow. 38 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it was nut nut, something like nut nut. 39 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: Is that a train sound? 40 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 4: When you're too it sounds good? 41 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 2: Okay? And then how did that manifested stuff? Were you 42 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 2: that way through grammar school and high school? Yeah? 43 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I used to write down when what 44 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 3: do you want to be train engineer? And then as 45 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 3: I got older by the time I grew up out 46 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: in Chelmsford down the suburbs, as soon as I could 47 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 3: get on the commuter rail come into Boston. That that 48 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 3: just clinched it for me that the networks were here. 49 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 3: I could go play on them. I could what is 50 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 3: this train? Where does it go to? What's the Orange Line? 51 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 3: What's this neighborhood? And I've been exploring and learning every since. 52 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: What happened to your your train conductor train operator dreams? 53 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 3: Well, that evolved into train engineer, and then some something 54 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 3: clicked and they became a licensed architect. 55 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 4: So I went into architecture. 56 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 2: I actually became for about three years a long range 57 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 2: train Amtrak fanatic, and I've been on eight across country 58 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: Amtrak trips and those you know, those are like forty 59 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: eight hours. So you start talking to everybody, including there 60 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 2: were a couple of engineers or a couple of people 61 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 2: high up in the company who were just riding along. 62 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: So I struck up a conversation and asked him, so, 63 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 2: what does it take to become an engineer? And it 64 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 2: was surprisingly not that hard. I thought, I how quit 65 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 2: my radio job and do that? 66 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: No? 67 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 2: Wait, no, I won't. But had that presented itself as 68 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: a when I was a young kid, who knows I 69 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: might have become an engineer? 70 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: You no, absolutely I mean I have friends who are 71 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 3: engineers or who are trained engineers worked for MTA down 72 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 3: in New York and people I know a lot of 73 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: people work for the MBTA and Kiolus up here, and 74 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 3: that skill set which is phenomenal and so needed, Like 75 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: we need more people going into that industry so that 76 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 3: our transit systems can grow. 77 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 2: What do I suppose it is about trains that attracts 78 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: so many people and a few of them so strongly. 79 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 4: I mean, there's there's a bunch of freedom. 80 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: Is it? The freedom? 81 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 3: I mean that's one layer, right, there's also a nostalgia layer. Oh, 82 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 3: this this thing is more associated with history than let's 83 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 3: say modern highway, but like on a contemporary on a 84 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 3: contemporary basis, it's a literal connection that is open to all, 85 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 3: and that is, it is something that we can all 86 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 3: access and it can get us places that we do 87 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 3: it as a shared experience, and I think that's part 88 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,359 Speaker 3: of it is you're not in a cocoon of your 89 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 3: individual automobile. You're making a commitment to be social and 90 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 3: to be part of the community when you go on 91 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 3: a train. 92 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 2: So what is it about America that doesn't like trains? 93 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: We don't like America overall, despise us trains love cars. 94 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 3: Why I think that we have in America as we 95 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 3: have always had so many different segments of people like this, 96 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 3: don't like this, like this, don't We're not a homogeneous culture. 97 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 4: We've never been. 98 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: So there are people who will never get on a train, 99 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 3: But there are also people who like myself, I'll probably 100 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 3: never buy a Ford f one fifty. 101 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: Good to know, I see, Oh, we still have a 102 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: little bit of time. Now. You also have a book 103 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: that you have brought in. Tell me the book weighs 104 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 2: six pounds. It is a beautiful book. I wish Christmas 105 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: were not over because this would be a tremendous tremendous gifts. 106 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,119 Speaker 2: Six hundred I mean six hundred pages, six pounds, six 107 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 2: six years. 108 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 3: Get six years to write six hundred pages, six pounds, 109 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 3: four hundred years of history. I, as a transit historian, 110 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 3: wanted to tell the whole story in one book, from 111 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 3: sixteen thirty to I wrapped up the manuscript right before COVID. 112 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 2: So before we actually get into the history and go 113 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: step by step, which we will. I mentioned that America 114 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: was not a train country, but Boston was into public 115 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 2: transit pretty heavily up till the fifties, right and then 116 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 2: the highways. It became a car country and the highway 117 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:59,559 Speaker 2: system they wanted cars. They wanted to make it car friendly. 118 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: At the spen some public transportation isn't that correct, So. 119 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 3: I think Boston is. We are very lucky. We never 120 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: lost one hundred percent completely lost our networks. There are 121 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 3: cities in the country that are transit deserts. They used 122 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 3: to have vast street. 123 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 4: Car networks or bus networks or even railed transit networks. 124 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 4: We've had our ups. 125 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 3: And downs in terms of ebbs and flows of how 126 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 3: many people use it, how reliant we are on it. 127 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 3: Of course, in the middle of the twentieth century, railroads 128 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 3: are going bankrupt, the federal government spending billions on highway 129 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 3: infra infrastructure that didn't exist. So there was there was 130 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: There was a natural move away from transit, but we 131 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 3: never got rid of it, and we're one of the 132 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 3: lucky states that invested in it and made sure we 133 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 3: didn't lose it. Though it may have gotten you know, 134 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,839 Speaker 3: underfunded and became poorly reliable. We're now, I hope, coming 135 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 3: out of decades of ups and downs. 136 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 2: Okay, and you know Phil. 137 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 4: Ang Phil is fabulous supporter, which is title. 138 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 3: Oh my god, Phil Angery. He's a general manager of 139 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 3: the general manager. 140 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: If anybody's listening to me that now that knows Phil, 141 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: please have him call us at call call us. He 142 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 2: can call six one seven two five, because Phil, I 143 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: have a couple of suggestions for you, and I want 144 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 2: you to know. I am a tea lover. I love 145 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: the MBTA so much, and I'm not. I'm not a 146 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: super trained geek. I mean, I guess compared to most 147 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 2: time I did go on eight of those crazy cross 148 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 2: country trips, I guess maybe I am a train geek now. 149 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: But I love the MBTA for reasons other than being 150 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 2: a train gig. When I got to Boston, the fact 151 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 2: that I didn't need a car and you know, a 152 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 2: handful of change would take me away from it all. 153 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 2: I love the common experience. You're underground, everybody's going the 154 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: same speed, everybody's going the same direction. It's one of 155 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: the very It's a very unifying experience. 156 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 3: Extremely democratizing, and that's why I think that's what bothers 157 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 3: some people. 158 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 2: It's not a me, it's not a me me me thing. 159 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 2: It's a wee thing. And Americas are very much a 160 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: me country. 161 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 3: That is definitely there's a lot of people who they 162 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 3: would prefer to put themselves over their neighbor at all costs. 163 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 3: And unfortunately, you know, in Boston and Massachusetts, the Commonwealth, 164 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 3: we've had a pretty solid mix of of cultures of 165 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 3: you know, left and right in this and and I 166 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 3: think we've done a pretty good job of keeping things 167 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 3: like we have good roads, we have a reasonable transit network. 168 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 4: We're not a city that one. 169 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 3: Of them is, you know, like let's say like Greater Miami, 170 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 3: where you just have spaghetti and spaghetti of of highways 171 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 3: that are like the size of let's say downtown Boston 172 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 3: and they have you know, very lean transit system or 173 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 3: you know, but then you look at another place like 174 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 3: New York, massive transit network, you know, largest, one of 175 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 3: the largest in the world, largest in the country, but 176 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 3: you can still you know, get around by car. 177 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 4: So like balances is important. 178 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 2: So Philang, even if you don't want to call. And 179 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: the reason I said I love the tea is because 180 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask you the hard questions or anything. 181 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 2: I'd love to speak with you. I have a couple 182 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: of suggestions and even if you don't call Phil, tune in. 183 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: I'll give the suggestions and you can listen. I need 184 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 2: I need to communicate with Phil. Or are we going 185 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 2: to get into the history of transit in Boston. We're 186 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: gonna go way back into the sixteen hundred, right, Yes, 187 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 2: the very first public transit. We had nothing to do 188 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 2: with trains, and I think you're gonna love it if 189 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 2: you like Boston history. W BZ. 190 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio. 191 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: We're with Stephen Bouchet, who is the author of Boston 192 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 2: and Transit, a magnificent heavy I guess you'd call it 193 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: a coffee table book mapping the history of public transportation 194 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 2: in the Hub. And we're going to go directly to 195 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 2: the very first paint the picture of you know this Boston, 196 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 2: sixteen thirty and the first public transportation was what and when? 197 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 4: Sure? 198 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,200 Speaker 3: Okay, So sixteen thirty, we've got Winthrop's group coming over 199 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 3: from England and as they made down their way down 200 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 3: the coast from Salem and then stopping in Charlestown by 201 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 3: that fall, they're like they couldn't get good water in Charlestown. 202 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 3: They thought that France or somebody was going to invade, 203 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 3: so they hopped over to the Shamat Peninsula. If you 204 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 3: don't know what the Shamat Peninsula is, that's essentially the 205 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 3: North end and the Financial district, government center part of Boston. 206 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 2: And you have maps of all this in your books. 207 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, many, You have a thousand men over as. 208 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 3: Nine hundred images in the book. So sixteen thirty they 209 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 3: arrive in the sham At Peninsula. They being the Massachusetts 210 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 3: Bay Company. Remember this is a private company that came 211 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 3: over here to sort of take some land. 212 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 2: I wasn't listening with you. Tell me exactly where the 213 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: peninsula is. 214 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 3: I want to So the Shamat Peninsula is essentially from 215 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 3: the north end to the South end and from Beacon 216 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 3: Hill to where South Station. 217 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: Is, so the beginning of the South end or to 218 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: mass Ave to us. 219 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 3: It got very narrowed down by like Dover Street, which 220 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 3: was Boston Neck. Okay, but yeah, essentially half of the 221 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 3: northern the eastern half of the South End. 222 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 2: To get off, I had to go through Boston Neck. 223 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 2: The turnstyle, you had to pay and everything. 224 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 3: I don't know about the turnstyle, but it got wet 225 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 3: at high tide. That's what the gallows were. 226 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 4: And so. 227 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 2: Do you know exactly where that So the spot was 228 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: in the south end where Boston Neck where. 229 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:40,839 Speaker 3: It was long, and it sort of stretched from Dover 230 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 3: Street down to where like sort of mass Ave is 231 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 3: today but Dover Street or I keep calling it Dover Street. 232 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 3: This is West East Berkeley Street today, essentially where JJ 233 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 3: Foleys is and everything. 234 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: And now name all the Boston that did not exist 235 00:11:54,040 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 2: that was. 236 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 4: Just marsh. 237 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:59,119 Speaker 2: Be specific. 238 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 3: I mean back from the foot of Charles Street all 239 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 3: the way out to parts of Brookline. 240 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: So at Boston Common was basically the beach. Yeah, the 241 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 2: foot you could put up, you'd pull your boat up 242 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 2: to Boston Common. Yep. 243 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 3: The only land based way to get on was the neck. 244 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: So as what the colonists when they arrived the Massachusetts 245 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 3: Bay Company, they looked to the people who are already 246 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 3: living here the Massachusetts, the indigenous people, and they were 247 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 3: using canoes to get everywhere because it was much easier 248 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 3: to go on the walls. 249 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: If you didn't go on the water, it took you 250 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 2: like mostly almost two days. 251 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 3: Right, because you had Salem to the north of us, 252 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 3: and you had Plymouth Colony to the south of US 253 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 3: and they set up Massachusetts Bay Colony. They named it 254 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 3: Boston in the middle and land travel to those was 255 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 3: much more excruciating than just getting in a boat. But 256 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 3: after the Massachusetts Bay Colony moved over from Charlestown over 257 00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 3: to the Shamat Peninsula, they sixteen thirty November, they aim Boston. 258 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 3: They say, we're gonna call the sham At Peninsula Boston. 259 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 2: So first the natives called it shaman right, Yeah, it. 260 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 3: Was sort of a name that was used by not 261 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 3: only them, but the traders that had been here for 262 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 3: years before. 263 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: And then before Boston it was also called Tremonte. 264 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 3: Well, on the sham At Peninsula was the Trimount, the Trimonte, 265 00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 3: Free Mounts. 266 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:25,120 Speaker 2: The Trimonte, and that was what bought before Boston was Boston. 267 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:26,679 Speaker 2: It was called Tremonte. 268 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 4: Yes, you could use all of those names. 269 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: And then and then it became officially Boston because some 270 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 2: official names. One or two people named it after their 271 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 2: hometown in England. 272 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's the Massachusetts Bay Company. At that same 273 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 3: meeting or the one after it, depending on how you 274 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 3: read the colonial documents, they also said, hey, we need 275 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 3: a piece of public transportation. We need somebody to set 276 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: up a ferry between Charlestown that we just left and 277 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 3: the new settlement of Boston. By the next year, sixteen 278 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 3: thirty one, mister Convert is running a ferry. And my 279 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 3: definition of public transportation is something that is sanctioned, overseen, permitted, 280 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 3: not necessarily funded by the governing body. So at the 281 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: time that was Massachusetts Bay Company and everyone could ride it, 282 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: you just but the fares were set. They were set 283 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 3: by the colony and the person who wrote who operated it. 284 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 3: He's basically the first contractor who took a public public 285 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 3: contract to run public transportation. 286 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 2: So we made a bid to have that franchise and 287 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: he made the money. 288 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and he had it for three or four years. 289 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 3: What was his name, I forget the first name, but 290 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 3: his last name was. 291 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: Converse, Converse, and there was just the one. 292 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 3: There was just the one. And then later as more 293 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 3: and more ferries get developed, like the next one goes 294 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 3: to win a summit, which is now Chelsea, the next 295 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 3: one ends up going to East Boston. There's these great colonne. 296 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 3: They will have meetings and they'll say, okay, you need 297 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 3: to have so many boats on the water during the day, 298 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 3: it's just like we would assign so many buses to 299 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 3: a bus route today. And some of the great colonial 300 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 3: rules were you need to have two able bodied sober 301 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 3: men running the boats at night. You can charge a 302 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 3: little bit more because it's probably a little harder for 303 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 3: you go if you took a pig the surge pricing. 304 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the swine cost more. But interesting, if you 305 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 3: took two people in the winter, simmeit ferry, you actually 306 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 3: got a little bit of a discount as opposed to 307 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 3: traveling independently. 308 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 2: And then what came after the fairies was that the 309 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 2: horse dron coaches next. 310 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so that's sixteen thirty. We really don't 311 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 3: get like good coaches for like another we're talking another 312 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 3: two hundred years. But during that time, you basically walked. 313 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 3: You could ride. If you were rich, you may have 314 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 3: had a ride a horse, you mean, yeah, or you 315 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 3: would get carried around. 316 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 2: So pub this is public transportation. 317 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 4: This is more private transportation. 318 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: So they had only the fairies for the longest time. Yeah, 319 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: and then the next were there public transportation. Horse drown carriages. 320 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 3: That's what evolves, so that by the time you get 321 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 3: to the late eighteenth into the early right at the 322 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 3: beginning of the nineteenth century. 323 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 4: You can do a coach for hire. 324 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 3: You can pay anyone can board as long as you 325 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 3: have fare, and they'll take you around town. But most 326 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 3: of these were actually starting to evolve to go, you know, 327 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 3: let's say, to go to newbury Port or to go 328 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 3: down to Plymouth. 329 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 2: So was it like a bus system and they were 330 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: just circling around you half off? 331 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 3: No, they were highly scheduled. It was more like a 332 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 3: commuter rail train today. 333 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 2: Okay, coaches. How come it took so long to get 334 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 2: good coaches. 335 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 3: It's interesting because we the way you look at all 336 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 3: this transit history, Like in France in the sixteen twenties 337 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 3: they had really good coaches and omnibuses, but we don't 338 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 3: get those until the eighteen twenties eighteen thirties, so. 339 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 2: They had terrible suspension and bad wheels. 340 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 4: Oh my god. 341 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 3: The stories of riding in the coaches. Sometimes if there 342 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 3: wasn't a bridge, everyone riding in the coach had to 343 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 3: go out help the driver take the wheels off. They 344 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 3: would float it over on a primitive ferry. Then they'd 345 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 3: all put it back together. But there's stories of people 346 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 3: riding around Greater Boston, and your knees would get bloody 347 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 3: as you bounced around. 348 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 2: And people complain about the MBTA today for five minute delay, 349 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: and back in the day you had to get out 350 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 2: and help take the wheels off. 351 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, you were, and you were physically drained and dirty. 352 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 3: And you know, I mean this. There was no air conditioning. 353 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: There was no windows, you know, no glass, no. 354 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 2: Pain so everything is muddy, either frozen or muddy. Yep. 355 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 3: And then in the winter there were put sleighs on, 356 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sorry, put skis on. 357 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 2: And the odor was a thing in the city, right 358 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 2: because they were all horses. 359 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 4: Oh my. 360 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 3: By the time you get to the nineteenth century, all 361 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 3: the modes of public land based travel are pulled by horses. 362 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 3: So many horses, so much stink, and then we also 363 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 3: have to deal with the horses. 364 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 2: Right. 365 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 3: So in the nineteenth century Boston, the coach companies, which 366 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 3: evolve into the omnibus companies, they're bringing in so many 367 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 3: horses from New York State, from Western mass They used 368 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 3: them for up to like five years and then they're 369 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,199 Speaker 3: worn out. So it's like a piece of a vehicle 370 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 3: that you no longer can have a lot of them 371 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 3: keep going East and they end out on Spectacle Island. 372 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 3: They're turned rendered into more other usable products. 373 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 2: Oh now, we didn't really talk about the omnibus. 374 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 4: Yet, right, Yes, that's next. 375 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 2: Okay, so I'll talk about it now. I could this 376 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: a little early for a break, so we have time 377 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 2: to do that. Okay, cool. 378 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 4: I mean omnibus. 379 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 3: It's a great word, all carrying vehicle, omnibus. Yeah, we 380 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 3: still use the word bus today. Basically, someone had the 381 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 3: bright idea to take a coach and when you were 382 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 3: wroteing a coach, just think of you know, Cinderella, You've. 383 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 4: Got indoors on the sides. Omnibus. 384 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:38,919 Speaker 3: They put the door in the back and put two 385 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 3: long benches, so basically it's like getting in the back 386 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 3: of a school bus. For the first time it was 387 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 3: it was more like a modern transit vehicle when you 388 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,439 Speaker 3: went in on a door at the end, and then 389 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,320 Speaker 3: you sat along the sides on benches and you would 390 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 3: put a little coin in or pay your fare as 391 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 3: you got in and out, and there was a little 392 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 3: bell sometimes it would go to the top and let 393 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 3: the driver know you're paid. So that you could fit 394 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 3: twice as many people in the same sized vehicle in 395 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 3: an omnibus than you couldn't. 396 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: Have coached how many people. 397 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 4: I mean, you could easily get twelve. 398 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,439 Speaker 3: But in the summer the barges came out, so the 399 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 3: companies would bring out these they were called barges, but 400 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 3: they were huge omnibuses. 401 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 4: You got in on the back. They could hold thirty 402 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 4: forty fifty people. 403 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 3: And imagine them all sitting on this open benches on 404 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:26,239 Speaker 3: this big thing going through and they would take them 405 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,359 Speaker 3: up to Revere Beach or go down to Nantasket, and 406 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 3: there were more. 407 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 4: Those were brought out in the summer. 408 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 2: So once again MBTA complainers, it's pretty easy to get 409 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 2: to Revere Beach now. Before you had to get on 410 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 2: this omnibus of wooden with wooden benches and wooden wheels 411 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 2: and bumpy roads and probably take you two hours to 412 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 2: get to Revere Beach and you'd be all dirty and sweating. 413 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: And I can imagine how bumpy the roads were because 414 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 2: it'd be wagon ruts. People. I don't think they have 415 00:19:55,320 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 2: any idea how run it out these were yet. So 416 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 2: that's anymore on the omnibus. That's that's crazy. 417 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 3: Interesting because but that's the bridge right into the railroad 418 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 3: is coming. 419 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 2: Next any omnibus is left to see. 420 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 3: There's some in some museums, like up at the Sherborne 421 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 3: Museum up in Vermont. 422 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, a great little collection there. 423 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 3: But yeah, some good transportation museums always have a couple 424 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 3: omnibuses floating around. 425 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 2: And there's something that was used all throughout the country. Yes, 426 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 2: on the omnibus and it was still wooden wheels with 427 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,160 Speaker 2: like iron. 428 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, rims, yep, yep. So those what did they use for? 429 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 2: Would they use leaf springs? Do they have any? 430 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 3: Early ones were wood and then later yeah, then later 431 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 3: they got to be metal. But right at the same 432 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: time as the omnibuses are coming over at eighteen twenties, 433 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 3: over in England, they're really refining the idea of a 434 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 3: steam powered vehicle that became the iron horse, which becomes 435 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 3: the train, the locomotive and coaches, and the first trains 436 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 3: arrive here in austin eighteen thirties and basically all they 437 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 3: did was take a coach, put it on some wheels 438 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 3: that could then go on steel tracks, pull it by 439 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 3: a we'll call it basically a really really high pressure 440 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,640 Speaker 3: hot water heater that was your locomotive. So imagine there's 441 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 3: an engineer with a high pressure water tank that's producing 442 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 3: steam to propel the locomotive. You have some coaches that 443 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 3: they put on wheels with metal rims, and then they 444 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 3: put rails down. And the first rails were just like wood. 445 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: Some were wooden, but and then they even put them 446 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 3: on granite, like up to low they put them on granite, 447 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 3: and then they realized this is way too hard and 448 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 3: they went to wood. 449 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 2: So before that didn't they have vehicles that were on 450 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 2: tracks butt pulled by horses. 451 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 3: So those are going to come a little later. Eighteen 452 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 3: fifty They come after the steam Yes, because the steam 453 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 3: train proved to everyone whoa, it's a lot smoother to 454 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 3: ride on these steel rails in this coach pulled by 455 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 3: this thing. So all the omnibuses company, all the omnibus 456 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 3: companies said hey, we're going to put tracks in the streets, 457 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 3: and they went to the Commonwealth and they all got charters. 458 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 3: All of a sudden we had street railways. But street 459 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 3: railways come after the steam railroads. Steam railroads arrived in 460 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 3: the eighteen thirties eighteen fifties. First route for the street 461 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 3: cars from Harvard Square and Central Square over to Boden 462 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 3: Square over the West Boston Bridge, and yeah, and then 463 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 3: that just proliferates. 464 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 2: So you think about how important horses were to the 465 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 2: culture and the commerce, the support system for the blacksmiths, 466 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 2: the places that kept the horses fed the horses. Farmers 467 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 2: were going hey for the horses and feed for the horses. 468 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 3: It was a massive, massive amounts of real estate too. 469 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 3: When all of those horse car companies become consolidated into 470 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:55,920 Speaker 3: one company called the West End Street Railway Company in 471 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 3: the eighteen nineties, So we're getting now towards the end 472 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 3: of the nineteenth century. The number one biggest thing they 473 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 3: could do was then figure out how to get rid 474 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 3: of all the horses, all the stables, the car houses, 475 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 3: and all of the infrastructure involved with that. 476 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,040 Speaker 4: And they were able to electrify. 477 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 2: Right around the eighteen nineties. You get electricity and as 478 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 2: an assign related aside over by the Union Oyster House. 479 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 2: I believe there's and there may be others around, but 480 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 2: an actual Thomas Edison era light pole like made of 481 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 2: I don't know what much. I think it's made of metal. 482 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 2: All right, we'll get to the electric street car next 483 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 2: on w. 484 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: B Z Night Side with Dan ray On WBZ, Boston's 485 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: news radio. 486 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: It is Nightside Bradley J for Dan Tonight with Stephen Bouchet, 487 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 2: and we're talking about public transports transit in Boston. And 488 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 2: the anchor of this is Steven's book Boston in Transit, 489 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 2: a massive success, mapping the history of public transportation in 490 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 2: Boston in the During the break, Stephen and I were 491 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,959 Speaker 2: kind of discussing, kind of debating where the actual checkpoint 492 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 2: in Boston Neck was. The Boston Neck is the how 493 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 2: you got off the peninsula and onto the mainland, and 494 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 2: there was a checkpoint you had to get through. And 495 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 2: maybe not all the time, but at some points when. 496 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,479 Speaker 3: They were early on, they definitely wanted to They being 497 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 3: the Massachusetts Bate Company, wanted to secure it because they 498 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 3: were in what they perceived as hostile country. But also later, 499 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 3: by the time you get to the American Revolution, that 500 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 3: is fortified. 501 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 4: It needs to be. 502 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 2: So no one seems to know where that is. I mean, 503 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,760 Speaker 2: where exactly it is the two or three square yards 504 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 2: where the checkpoint was. I want to know, and you 505 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 2: can call me at six one seven and it's unlikely 506 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 2: and if you know, but if you do six one seven, 507 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 2: two five, ten, thirty. Somebody must know and when when 508 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: it's found out, I want a stone marker there that 509 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 2: said this is where the turnstyle was, because to me, 510 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 2: that's everything pivots around that spot. 511 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 4: I'm going to look into it for you. 512 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 2: All right. Now we've gotten through the ferries and the omnibus, 513 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: it's time to talk about the electric the first electric 514 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 2: street cars. 515 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, first electric street cars eighteen nineties. 516 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 2: They really it's you know, a lot of time goes 517 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 2: by now and not too much changes. You look back. 518 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 2: The iPhone was evented in two thousand and seven. That's 519 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 2: twenty years ago. Yeah, that was a big deal, But 520 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 2: twenty years has passed. Back then, in the eighteen nineties, 521 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: things were happening a lot more quickly than that. Electricity 522 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 2: was made available right around that and within no time 523 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 2: everything's electrified, including these street cars. 524 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,159 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's it was. It was scary to a 525 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 4: lot of people. 526 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,240 Speaker 3: There's a poem written called the broomstick Train and the 527 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 3: very first street cars that went around Remember that they 528 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 3: were initially pulled by horses. Now all of a sudden, 529 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 3: you have a stick going to a wire in the 530 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 3: air and with sparks, with sparks and the street cars 531 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 3: moving through the street, and there's no horses, and you 532 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 3: had seen the horses for fifty years. So there's a 533 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 3: great poem called the Broomstick Train and the author describes 534 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 3: and that the car is channeling the witches and the supernatural, 535 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 3: and that must be what's you know, what is? 536 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 4: What is? 537 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 2: They couldn't figure out what was powering it. 538 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 3: That it was if you didn't know electricity existed. Remember 539 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 3: this is before there's no power stations yet, there's no 540 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: electrical grid yet. So the streetcar companies were among the 541 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 3: first in the nation to build power plants. The first 542 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 3: one was built in Allston and that powered our first streetcars. 543 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 3: Where in Austin, Oh my god, it's right over by 544 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 3: essentially where Regina's the that big steak restaurant. Essentially where 545 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 3: the stockyard. 546 00:26:58,800 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 4: Yees, stockyard. 547 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 2: It's you mean right by the mass Pike. Yeah, okay, 548 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 2: essentially back up reg Is and now it's something else. 549 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, it backs up to the backed up to the pike, 550 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 3: which I meant them was the railroad. 551 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 2: Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, And what do these can 552 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 2: you do? You describe the omnibus very well? How about 553 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 2: the appearance on the inside and outside of the electric 554 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 2: street car. 555 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:23,199 Speaker 3: I think the street cars were fabulous because they evolved 556 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 3: so quickly. They started as twenty foot cars and there 557 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 3: were thirty foot so they got longer and longer. But 558 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,360 Speaker 3: we also started doing interesting things, just like we did 559 00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 3: with the coaches, where we would have a winter one 560 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 3: where the windows would close, but then there were summer versions. 561 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 3: Those were called open cars, and again you could ride 562 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 3: down the South Shore. 563 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 4: On benches with no sides on the car. 564 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 3: And it was great in the winter because I'm sorry, 565 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 3: great in the summer when when there's no air conditioning, 566 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 3: no electrical air conditioning. And by the time the subway 567 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,400 Speaker 3: opens in Boston eighteen ninety seven, you could literally ride 568 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 3: on an open bench street car in the subway. And 569 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 3: there's great pictures of these overloaded street cars with people 570 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 3: hanging off the side. Today, imagine the cable cars in 571 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 3: San Francisco that are pulled by a cable. We had 572 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 3: those propelled by electricity, so they had open benches. I 573 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 3: would have loved to ride one of those. 574 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 2: So you had your power plant and somehow these these 575 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 2: wires over the building. The infrastructure must have been a 576 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 2: big deal. 577 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean they're they're figuring this out as 578 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 3: they go. They'd put a motor in a street car 579 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 3: six months it was like it was like tech now where. 580 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 2: Like six weeks yeh, bom bone. 581 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, six weeks later someone's got a better motor. Oh, 582 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,320 Speaker 3: we better put use that motor. Six months later, ten 583 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 3: times better motors. And we had interesting things in Boston 584 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 3: where we didn't know if the wire was going to 585 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 3: be above our heads or in the street. For a 586 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 3: while down the back bay, the wire was in a 587 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 3: trough in the middle of the street and the street 588 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 3: car would go by, stick a little plow in there 589 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 3: and pick up power. But that didn't last very long 590 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 3: with ice and snow, and kids used to stick pennies 591 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 3: in there to short it. 592 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 2: People step on it and get electric cue. There were 593 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 2: there was basically that was the third rail. Yeah. 594 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 3: No, there were horses on a bridge that were electrocuted 595 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 3: and then the fire department comes. 596 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 4: They start getting zapped. 597 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 3: Nobody died, nobody was hurt, but it was like, Okay, 598 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 3: this isn't going to work. 599 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 4: We don't need current under our feet with ice and snow. 600 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 2: And that's why they put it up above. One of 601 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 2: the reasons. 602 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, and. 603 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 2: At some point, I mean, is this when we get 604 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 2: to the MTA? Uh? And is there something happening in between? 605 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 4: Let's jump there basically, no, no, don't jump okay. 606 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 2: What's in between? 607 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 3: What's in between is remember the idea of publicly owned 608 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 3: and operated and funded public transport trans public transportation. 609 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 4: That's really a. 610 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 3: Twentieth century concept. It was owned, operated and funded by 611 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 3: private companies right up until I would say, you know, 612 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 3: right up into friend Boston, at least right until the 613 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 3: forties when we created the MTA. 614 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 4: That's our first public. 615 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 2: Agency, Massachusetts Massachusetts Transit Authority. 616 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 4: Metropolitan Transit, Metropolitan Metropolitan Transit. 617 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: Is that true? Yeah? 618 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 4: That is true. 619 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: Why did they change that? 620 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 3: Okay when they came up with the MBTA. Yeah, then 621 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 3: they added Massachusetts. 622 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,080 Speaker 2: So you're going to do the rise and fall of 623 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 2: the MTA that was yep, okay, and that's going to 624 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 2: require a little time. So we'll do that right after 625 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: the break on WBZ. 626 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's 627 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: news radio. 628 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 2: We're talking Boston history as far as transit goes in 629 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: public transit, and we're getting up to the MTA and 630 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 2: the MBTA. We're going we don't have much time, so 631 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 2: our guest, Steven Bauchet is going to speed us through there, 632 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 2: so I have some time to make some comments. 633 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 4: Sure sounds good, let's get to those. 634 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 3: So yeah, twentieth century, early twentieth century, that's when we 635 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 3: transitioned from public i'm sorry, privately owned and operated public transit, 636 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 3: so private companies for profit running street cars, running omnibuses, 637 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 3: running these coaches, even running those ferries back in the 638 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 3: seventeenth century. But as the twentieth century dawns, that becomes 639 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 3: less and less profitable. And in one of the reasons, well, 640 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 3: the Boston Elevator Railway Company was legally prohibited by the 641 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 3: legislature from raising their fares beyond five cents. That was 642 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 3: a big, big issue. But as it is now, costs 643 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 3: were going up. They couldn't raise fares, and by nineteen twelve, 644 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 3: the state is already stepping into subsidize I'm sorry, nineteen 645 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 3: eighteen to subsidize the Boston Elevator Railway. But it gets 646 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 3: so bad that in the nineteen forties, by forty six, 647 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 3: the Commonwealth steps in and creates the MTA. They take 648 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 3: over the Boston elevator railway wholesale, and for the first 649 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 3: time we have an entirely public agency owning and operating 650 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 3: the system. That network was too small, the MTA system, 651 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 3: and I go into it in detail in the store 652 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 3: in the book, but basically the network was too small. 653 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 3: They couldn't reach the suburbs. Too many people were living 654 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,400 Speaker 3: in their cars beyond the reach of the network. And 655 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 3: they tried really hard. I mean, they brought us great 656 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 3: projects like the Revere Extension. They brought us tokens for transit, 657 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 3: they brought park and ride to stations, they brought us 658 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,440 Speaker 3: the Riverside Line. But by the time we get to 659 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 3: the sixties again commonwealth steps in all sorts of studies 660 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 3: are made. 661 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 4: That's something that's tracked in the book Last Year Studies 662 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 4: sixties sixty four. 663 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: So this is a time when people don't care about 664 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,760 Speaker 2: public transport. It's all about the cars and the highways. 665 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, railroads are going out of business. They're petitioning the 666 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 3: federal government to get rid of they don't want to 667 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 3: do they don't want to be passenger carriers anymore, which 668 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,760 Speaker 3: they were obligated to do by the federal government. So 669 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 3: they're getting out of that, and interestingly enough, in the 670 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 3: midst of that, everyone's going to the cars, everyone's going 671 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 3: to the suburbs. 672 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 4: The center city's hollowing out. Railroads are going bankrupt. 673 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 3: Massachusetts funds the railroads for a bit, it creates the MBTA, 674 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 3: and eventually by the time you get to the eighties, 675 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 3: we've bought the railroads. So therefore that's our commuter rail network. 676 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 3: Bought things from the New Haven Railroad, from the Boston 677 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,960 Speaker 3: and Maine Railroad. We're lucky that that did happen here. 678 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 3: Other cities, other cunt states didn't want that. There wasn't 679 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 3: the political will or the funding. But also when the 680 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 3: t came in nineteen sixty four, it's the last thing 681 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 3: I'll say about that is that they were They tapped 682 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 3: the largest and unpreceded amount of federal funding from the 683 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 3: federal level for public transit at. 684 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 4: The local level. So that's what what got the MBTA 685 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 4: off the ground. 686 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 2: By the way, before I forget, I need you to 687 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 2: call Phil eng, the general manager of the MBTA, tell 688 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 2: him I want to be the voice of the MBTA 689 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 2: that says the next, you know, the next Union Square 690 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 2: station train ten minutes. Can you make that happen. 691 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 4: Next next time I run into him, I'll mention it was. 692 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 2: Come on, I'm such a I'm such a big t booster. 693 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 2: I deserve it. So have we have? Well, let me 694 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 2: ask you this, Well, in the limited time we have, 695 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 2: what are the challenges face? Now? 696 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 4: Challenges face? And now? 697 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 3: Are keeping up the excellent work that Phil Ang as 698 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 3: that guy I mean people call him train daddy. I 699 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 3: mean he is a genuinely skilled person that cares and 700 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 3: has brought in a team and has overseen I mean 701 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 3: everyone I talk to at the tea, just about everybody. 702 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 3: There's a there's a different feeling, but also a new energy, 703 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 3: a new energy, but also we can feel it for 704 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 3: the first time. I can take the red line. I 705 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 3: live in Porter Square, so Porter to Park Street. You 706 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 3: know that should be like fifteen minutes. It hasn't been 707 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 3: that way in a long time. And there's so many 708 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:37,719 Speaker 3: physical improvements, structural improvements, organizational improvements. He is making fabulous 709 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 3: changes as well as all the hard working people at 710 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 3: the NBTA under his oversight. So if we keep going, 711 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 3: that's our biggest change is keep it going, keep it funded, 712 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 3: keep it consistent, and and and just keep improving. I 713 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 3: mean there's specific things. If you want to get into 714 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 3: specific things, give. 715 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 2: Me two specific things that'll leave me time for my suggestions. 716 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,360 Speaker 3: Specific things we need to not forget about some big 717 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,959 Speaker 3: plans that we've been on, that have been on the books, 718 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 3: some of these for nearly a century, like connecting our 719 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 3: bifurcated commuter rail network all the commuter rail trains north 720 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 3: side at North Station. 721 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, all the commuter rails. 722 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 4: I mean there's North South rail as why do you 723 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 4: do that? Essentially it's a big tunnel. 724 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 2: Build a bridge to build a tunnel. 725 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 3: No, but I mean that's the kind of thing that 726 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 3: that if we take that next step, you maximize so 727 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 3: much infrastructure that's already in place, but also you start 728 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:37,960 Speaker 3: to tap whole regions of the country north I'm sorry 729 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:39,919 Speaker 3: the state. People north of Boston can now work south 730 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 3: of Boston without having to drive, and it's a much 731 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 3: easier connection were we're long. 732 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 4: I think we've evolved past. 733 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 3: The commuters commuting into the core center anymore now if 734 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 3: we need to think regionally and bigger, and there are 735 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:57,880 Speaker 3: great people at Mascot and thinking about all this stuff 736 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 3: we've got, you know, East East West rail. We've got 737 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 3: Compass rail out for Springfield, so we we can't forget 738 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 3: we got it. 739 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 4: We fixed things, Let's keep fixing them. But we can't 740 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 4: forget to think bigger. 741 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 2: Is there some group that is a think tank that 742 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,839 Speaker 2: tries to figure out how to connect North and South Station? 743 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:15,359 Speaker 2: I mean there has to be a way as long 744 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 2: as if there was a will, there's a way. I 745 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 2: mean there's also a mono rail, but you couldn't carry 746 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 2: enough passengers with a mono rail, could you. There are 747 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 2: those kind of airport things that get you from terminal 748 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 2: to terminal where those were, but you'd have to go 749 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 2: back to basically something going over the city, which they 750 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 2: spent gazillions of dollars to get rid of. I mean 751 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 2: put it right over the roof Kennedy Greenway. 752 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 4: Yeah exactly. 753 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 3: I mean the thing that comes to mind is back 754 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 3: in the late eighties early nineties, we're putting the big 755 00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,239 Speaker 3: dig together and we caught out the fact that we 756 00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 3: could have put a tunnel underneath, Yeah, for for the trains. 757 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:52,920 Speaker 4: I mean, that was the time to do it. 758 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,040 Speaker 3: The funding was there, but it was it was caught, 759 00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 3: and then then the political will kind of fell away. 760 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 3: I mean, you asked about people. There are fabulous all 761 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 3: sorts of studies. I mean in looks, some of the 762 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,680 Speaker 3: local schools, but I mean people like transit matters. 763 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,240 Speaker 4: There are earnest, earnest outside. 764 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 3: Groups that are consulting with the TEA that are advocating 765 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 3: for some of these projects. 766 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 2: So this as an MBTA writer a lot because I 767 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,640 Speaker 2: love it. I don't. I don't even like getting off 768 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 2: when I'm sad when I get to my stop, because 769 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:29,080 Speaker 2: I just love listening to music and looking at Boston 770 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 2: Globe online and cruising along on the train. I see 771 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 2: things that need improvement. And one thing I don't understand 772 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 2: filling is that I'm guessing a lot of money was 773 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 2: spent to put a pair excuse me, pay stations at 774 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,759 Speaker 2: EAT entrance so all doors could be open. That's a 775 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 2: great thing, but there's no enforcement on them. And I 776 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 2: get on and see a few people pay and millions 777 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 2: of dollars are being lost. What is Why is it 778 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 2: enforcement such a problem for that and things like motor 779 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 2: scooters at It seems like Boston Area just doesn't want 780 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 2: to enforce anything. All it would take is a few 781 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 2: people on the team said, let me, like in other countries. 782 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,160 Speaker 2: Let me check and see if you validated your pass. 783 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,439 Speaker 2: Oh you didn't. It's five hundred bucks. All they would 784 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 2: have to know that there's a shot that'd be five 785 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 2: hundred bucks, and that would make a difference. But I 786 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 2: don't even think people believe they have to pay anymore. 787 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 2: It is obvious to them that no one cares, at 788 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 2: least not enough to do anything about it, so they don't. 789 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 2: And I feel like kind of an idiot, kind of 790 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 2: like this old old school fool with this ancient notion 791 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 2: that I should pay. I should follow the rules. I understand, 792 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 2: and so what is the thinking behind that? It wouldn't 793 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 2: cost any money? And I know that's the bottom line. 794 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 2: It would make money. You pay somebody twenty bucks an 795 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:00,719 Speaker 2: hour to check that, and you bust person and it's 796 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 2: five hundred bucks. 797 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 4: I hear you. 798 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 3: It's a very common complaint, very reasonable one. I can't 799 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 3: stand it when somebody doesn't pay their fare, and I do. 800 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 4: I'm you're a rule. 801 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 2: Follower, yeah, And it's part of a general hesitant, hesitancy 802 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 2: to enforce any rules at all in the t in 803 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 2: the highway, and it's it's a trend that's concerning to me. 804 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 2: And I feel kind of like an outcast as a 805 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,359 Speaker 2: rule follower. And I'm getting to the point where I'm saying, 806 00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 2: look if no if no one cares, I'm not gonna 807 00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 2: care either. I'm gonna If I can't beat them, I'll 808 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 2: join them. 809 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 4: Here's something to think about. 810 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,240 Speaker 2: What do you have thirty seconds? 811 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 4: Okay, what do you think about fair free transit? 812 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 2: If you can, I don't. Can you afford it? That's fine, 813 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 2: I don't mind paying. If you wanted free, that's fine. 814 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 2: You mean I have to pay a little bit more 815 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 2: in taxes? Fine, Well, I don't care because I use 816 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,919 Speaker 2: it anyway. Yeah, that's gonna be a problem for someone 817 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 2: who doesn't use it. 818 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 3: But I mean we're doing it around the state right 819 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,720 Speaker 3: now with some of the regional transit authorities. And if 820 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 3: we can get to a point where imagine free and reliable, 821 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 3: that's a. 822 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 2: That's a conversation for another day. We're out o time. Folks. 823 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,799 Speaker 2: You like Italian cooking, well you're gonna you're gonna like 824 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,560 Speaker 2: this next guest. I've tried to make homemade pasta. I've 825 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 2: tried to make, you know, my own Italian food fail, 826 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 2: not quite epic fail, but you know, no good, throw 827 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,759 Speaker 2: it out. This next guest is going to try to 828 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,480 Speaker 2: help me and help you with Italian cooking on wb 829 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 2: Z