1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: Do you want to be an Americans? 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 2: Got Flom show on seven hundred WLW that we got 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 2: some breaking news to share with you this morning about 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 2: crime in Cincinnati. Robert Shaw has now been charged in 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 2: the murder with that drive by shooting. He killed a 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 2: thirty four old man by the name of Justin Johnson 7 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 2: right after Thursday night football. This is on Sycamore in 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 2: front of the in Between Tavern. Happened about two am, 9 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 2: so people are still downtown celebrating the Big Bengals. Whin 10 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: Shaw was wearing an ankle monitor at the time. Does 11 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: the story sound familiar? Sure? And the reason why I 12 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 2: was under a house arrest so to speak, was carried 13 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: concealed weapon, illegal gun possession and here he is being 14 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 2: held on that, being about to go and trial on that, 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 2: and now he's out there doing it again. So initially 16 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: he was released on a twenty thousand dollars bond with 17 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: the electronic monitoring that was back in June. Also, the 18 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: suspect in the Fountain Square shooting last week has turned 19 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: himself in. Twenty four year old Shaquille Ferguson said it's 20 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 2: self defense because the people that he shot at through 21 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: the window of City Chicken on Fountain Square were actually 22 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: armed themselves and pointing a gun at him. The only 23 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 2: problem with that argument from Clyde Bennett is that mister 24 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 2: Ferguson was already on probation in July for a violent crime, 25 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 2: which means he's under disability and shouldn't have had the 26 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: gun that he shot the window out and at the 27 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 2: people to the city Bird. So we're back to this question. 28 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 2: Is our probation and monitoring system completely broken and beyond repair? 29 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: On that is the honorable Betsy Sunderman, She's a judge 30 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 2: in Hamlin County, joining the show to discuss here on 31 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 2: seven hundred WLW. 32 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: How are you good morning? I'm great, how are you? 33 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 2: I'm doing final though you hear these stories, I'd love 34 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: to not be talking about violent crime in Cincinnati, but 35 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 2: you know, we have shoes dropping and now we know 36 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 2: the backgrounds of the individuals and jackets on Robert Shaw 37 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: and Shaquille Ferguson. You have two people yet again that 38 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 2: should not be armed by law, and yet there they are. 39 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and if if there are any issues with 40 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: probation monitoring right now, it is interesting for your liststeners 41 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: to know who is in charge of the probation officers. 42 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: It's the judges. The judges hire the probation officers and 43 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 1: make sure they're doing their jobs. So if we're having 44 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: issues with probation monitoring, I mean, I haven't heard this 45 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: issue before in the past. And it's interesting. Now we 46 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: have a lot of Democrat judges who are in charge 47 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 1: of the probation department and that seems to be the 48 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: big change, and now we're not very happy with probation monitoring. So, 49 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,679 Speaker 1: for example, about a month ago, the Democrat majority of 50 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: judges and Common Police Criminal Court decided to get rid 51 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: of some of these, well all of the probation substations. 52 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: So there used to be these substations in the most 53 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: violent neighborhood and people who are on probation could go 54 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: meet with those probation officers there, and the probation officers 55 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: could set up shops there and they could visit people 56 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: in their homes. But now the Democrat judges have gotten 57 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: rid of those and they said, well, it's more efficient 58 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 1: because now our probation officers can all be downtown. Well 59 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: that's true. Maybe it's more efficient as far as you know, 60 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: they don't have to drive places, but they're not able 61 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 1: to monitor people. 62 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: They're not in the community. So now they got it 63 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: a far further to monitor the people instead of being 64 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: in the neighborhood. It'd be kind of like just having 65 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: one big police station district one as opposed to the 66 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: multi different districts in and around Cincinnati. For cops. You 67 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: put them where the people in the crimes are exactly, 68 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 2: and if they're. 69 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: Visiting people in their homes, then people are picking up 70 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: more violations when the probation officers are seeing things in 71 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: their home. So of course the stats are going to 72 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: show a year from now that there are fewer probation violations, 73 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: but that's because the monitor monitoring is going to be subpar, 74 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: and as we see the monitoring get worse and worse, 75 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: we're going to see people out there offending. For example. 76 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I really can't speak specifically to a case, 77 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: but if there's a case where someone, for example, is 78 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: on the ankle monitor but has privileges for something, sometimes 79 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,800 Speaker 1: it's hard to monitor those privileges. So like let's say 80 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: I was on an ankle monitor and I had privileges 81 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: to go to work. Well, that's easy because I work 82 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 1: at one location and I work from the same time 83 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 1: I start and the same time I end every day. 84 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: But a lot of people don't have jobs like that. 85 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: A lot of people, you know, maybe they work construction, 86 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: or they work at a hospital, or they work odd hours. 87 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: And how do you monitor someone when they always say, well, 88 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: I was on my way to a construction job. 89 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:47,159 Speaker 2: Or in the case is this is Betsy Sunderman ferguson 90 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: the Fountain Square shoot at Teddy Bird. This young man 91 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 2: has a two cases pending for aggravated assault, both with 92 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 2: a weapon specification. There he shot someone two days prior, 93 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: allegedly in Northside before he shot the window out in 94 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: Fountain Square and shout at the people there, And yet 95 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: he was on probation from the other one saying, hey, listen, 96 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 2: as long as you're out looking for a job, it's fine. 97 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: I don't know if that's a good idea. You turn 98 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 2: your application at City Bird and then turn around and 99 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,840 Speaker 2: shoot their window out, albeit not to shoot at the 100 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: bird's window, shoot the people in the bird. But still, 101 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure, you know, if I'm doing the hiring 102 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: that kind of behaviors frowned upon. 103 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it depends what kind of job they're 104 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: trying to book, but it's unlikely that that would meet 105 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: the job description. 106 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 2: Right. 107 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 1: But by having these rules that seem really tough, but 108 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: then not enforcing them properly, this is the way that 109 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:44,119 Speaker 1: the politicians can say we're combating crime but really doing nothing. 110 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: For example, like the mayor and his juvenile curfew. Whenever 111 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: a juvenile either shoot someone or get shot, he says, 112 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: we're gonna tighten up this curfew. But then if you 113 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: look at the actual rules of the juvenile curfew, if 114 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: a child is out, if someone under eighteen is out 115 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,239 Speaker 1: and they say that they're on their way to work 116 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: or on their way home from work, you can't make 117 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: them go home, or you can't violate them for the curfew. 118 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: If they say that they are exercising their First Amendment rights, 119 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:22,720 Speaker 1: which could be the freedom of speech, assembly, they could 120 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 1: freedom of the press, to. 121 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: Church, they're on their way to church, Bessie when they 122 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 2: shot that person exactly. 123 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: And then even if the kid says, you know, I'm 124 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 1: not I have no exception that fits, then the police 125 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: all they can do is say, you know, we'd really 126 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: like you to go home, And if the kid says no, 127 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: then they'd say well, we'd really like you to go 128 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: to this, uh, this rec center, and if the kid 129 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: says no, they can't, they can't do anything. So it's 130 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: great that the mayor's on TV saying we're tightening up 131 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: this curfew. If if you're there and you're doing anything bad, 132 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: we're going to arrest. But it's just not playing out 133 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: like that, all right. 134 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: Betsy Sunderman, Judge Sunderman is here on the show, and 135 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: we're talking about probation and monitoring systems. Are they broken 136 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 2: beyond repair? Robert Shaw, that was the man who's now 137 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: been charged the drive by shooting that killed thirty fear 138 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 2: old Justin Johnson after Thursday night football, right right near 139 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: the in between tavern on Thursday night Friday morning. He 140 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: was already out on a lot. He was wearing the 141 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 2: ankle monitor at the time he shot the individual in 142 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 2: the car, Justin Johnson. From what I understand, people I 143 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,320 Speaker 2: know knew this guy and said, yeah, he's a professional, 144 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: you know, seemed to be an upstanding guy. I don't 145 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: know why he and Robert Shaw got into a beef 146 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: and what was over. We don't know that. But the 147 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 2: background is not Justin Johnson is not a street criminal. 148 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: He's a professional, or was a professional before he was 149 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: murdered in the Shaquille Ferguson shooting at Citybird Chicken. He 150 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: was armed again, had priors, who's out on probation for 151 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: a violent crime, and he shot the window out and 152 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 2: trying to shoot at the people inside City Bird. His attorney, 153 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: Clyde Bennett cle m self defense. We'll see that. I'm 154 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: not quite sure how that works within the law. If 155 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 2: you're prohibited from having a weapon because you're on probation 156 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 2: and you shoot at someone, I'm not quite sure that 157 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: that is going to It's not It's not like ofsetting 158 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: penalties in the NFL. And then you play it over 159 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: in that regard to Betsy sentiment though, And I think 160 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: it's interesting in pointing out, because we've talked about the 161 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 2: problem in its progressivism in Cincinnati, that that that's fueling this. 162 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: It's because we want to hands off no bail policy 163 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 2: and we want to be kindler and gentlemen with people 164 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: who are suspected at crimes because their life is already difficult, 165 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 2: and well, it just gives the sociopaths out there more 166 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: a license to do stuff like this. I will point out, however, 167 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: in both those cases in Sean Ferguson, those are both 168 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: conservative Republican judges that ordered them on monitoring, and that 169 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 2: would be Judge dink Locker and Judge Ruleman. Does that 170 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 2: change the math a little bit on. 171 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: This, Well, I'll tell you those are two of the 172 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: judges who give the biggest bombs. So without being able 173 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: to talk to I can't call them and ask them 174 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: about the case and then talk about it on the radio, 175 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,320 Speaker 1: right right, But I would trust that those judges would 176 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: set appropriate bonds. There's a trifecta that kind of effects 177 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: every time someone's upset about someone being on parole or 178 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: probation and being out there and committing crimes. There's a 179 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: trifecta that affects all this. There's the police, there's the 180 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: probation department, and the judges. So the police are controlled by, 181 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: of course the police chief, who is controlled by the 182 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: city manager, who is ultimately controlled by the mayor. So 183 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: the police department is controlled by the mayor. And then 184 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: we have probation, which I already told you is controlled 185 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: by the judges, the now liberal Democrat judges. And then 186 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: we have the judges themselves, which are now a majority 187 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: Democrat liberal judges, so that basically the two groups that 188 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: are controlling all this is the mayor, the city manager, 189 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 1: the city administration, and the liberal judges. So if we're 190 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: seeing a big change, those are the big changes. Of course, 191 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: we've had a Democrat mayor for probably fifty years, right, 192 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: but the way the mayor is affecting the police department 193 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: is different than ever before. And then all having a 194 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: majority liberal, progressive Democrat judges is new for us in 195 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: Hamilton County. 196 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 2: Look look look at it, and a lot of look 197 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 2: at how the mayor's office impacted the brawl, and that 198 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 2: he was demanding that the white guy be charged because 199 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 2: he's a white guy, and we got to balance things 200 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 2: out racially. Apparently if yourest a personal caller, you got 201 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: aggressive white guy, even though he was the victim. Clearly 202 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 2: this whole thing, and no one wanted to write that 203 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 2: citation and unfortunately made a captain down at the Central 204 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 2: Business dictor to it who wasn't even on the scene. 205 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 2: To show you how politically motivated those charges were. Just 206 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 2: to appease the vocal contingent of folks in the community 207 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 2: who were screaming about restorative justice which is which is 208 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: a farce? But relative to Robert Shaw, I don't know. 209 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 2: This may be a tough question. You can eat their 210 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: answer to you can. I understand you have a canon 211 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: of ethics you have to abide by. You can't criticize 212 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 2: other judges. But in the shawcase, this is a drive 213 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 2: by from Thursday night football in from the in Between 214 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 2: that was under Judge Dinkelocker. The guy Robert Shaw was 215 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 2: on a twenty thousand dollars bond with electronic monitoring and 216 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 2: this was from a case back in June. His jacket 217 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: is this nineteen ninety eight six months in prison for 218 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: coke possession, two thousand and three six months for concealed weapon, 219 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 2: illegal guns, receiving spolling Property RSP, and then twenty eleven 220 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 2: and then again in twenty fifteen he did prison time 221 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: for a legal gun possession. He got twenty thousand dollars bond, 222 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 2: an electronic monitoring out and murdered someone while he was 223 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 2: wearing the ankle monitor. What would you prescribe what would 224 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 2: you prescribe as a punishment for Robert Shaw? If we're 225 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 2: in front of you, let's say, and he was already 226 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 2: out on bond for another shooting. How many more times 227 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 2: do you give someone a chance to get out on 228 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 2: bond even though they have priors involving a weapon, because 229 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: it tells me they're probably just going to do something 230 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 2: with a gun. 231 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: Again, Yeah, I mean, what do you I mean, what 232 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: do you do with someone who clearly is never going 233 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: to put down a gun? Right? I mean, this guy, 234 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: it sounds like you've spent in prison quite a few 235 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: times for having guns. He just keeps he just keeps 236 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: picking up a gun, right. I mean, again, I can't 237 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: speak to this exact case, but I do trust judge 238 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 1: take a locker and if he set that bond, I mean, 239 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. I can't really speak 240 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,559 Speaker 1: to a specific case. Well, what were you front? 241 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: What would you done? Now? Again, you have the hindsight 242 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 2: that this guy's going to murder someone over apparently it's 243 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 2: just a beef. It doesn't look like they knew each 244 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: other at this point. We'll find out. But what And 245 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 2: you can't look in the crystal ball and say, well, 246 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 2: he's going to go out and murder someone. You don't 247 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 2: know that because there are probably countless people are in 248 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 2: the situations that going out and do it. But we're 249 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 2: talking about stopping this from happening in the first place. 250 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 2: Should we just say, hey, listen, you already had a gun. 251 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 2: Speck you go right to You're going to hold you 252 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 2: and you're not going to get out, and you're not 253 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 2: gonna be able to walk around. And you decide to 254 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 2: do something stupid with a gun and you shouldn't have 255 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 2: a gun. You're going to sit in jail until your trial. 256 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean I would want to look at 257 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: his pre trial services sheet. So every single person who's 258 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: arrested and put into the jail and has an arraignment 259 00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: the next morning in front of a judge, a municipal 260 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: judge and pre trial services interviews the person and sees 261 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: if they're a flight risk, sees how much money they 262 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: could afford for a bond. They ask them a million 263 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: different questions about drugs and guns and family members and 264 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: community ties and do they have a job, that kind 265 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: of stuff. And the judge is able to look at 266 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: that sheet. The prosecutor is not able to look at 267 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: that sheet. I know that because I used to work 268 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: in that courtroom. One thing that we could do is 269 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: we could give everyone access to that information that might 270 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: be very helpful. I'm sure some of the new prosecutors 271 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 1: have different strategies than when I was a prosecutor there 272 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: because now they have a different boss. 273 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: So I don't know. 274 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: I mean, giving everyone maximum information and maybe giving the 275 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: media more information. I know the media doesn't see those 276 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: pre trial services sheets. I'm not saying those should be 277 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: turned over to the media, but usually that docket is 278 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: very rapid, and the media kind of leaves confused, like, well, 279 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: why did one person get a low bond and one 280 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: person get. 281 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 2: A high bond? 282 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: Right, So maybe making some of that more accessible. 283 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 2: Why isn't I shared with the prosecutor if anyone else. 284 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, it's a good question. I don't 285 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: know if I should know that, But then it should 286 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: be shared with the defense attorney. If you can't share 287 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: something just with a prosecutor and not the defense attorney discovery, 288 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe there's no time. I mean it's 289 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: a very quick docket. I mean, it's probably not as 290 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: quick as it used to be because we not as 291 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: many people are arrested because there aren't that many people 292 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: in our jail anymore. 293 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 2: But well, I remember was a long ago under Sheriff 294 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 2: Simon LEAs, and I know he's revered in this community. 295 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: I think there's something he did was way overreaching. I mean, 296 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: like you know, but he was tough on crime for sure. 297 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 2: And I remember having discussions about we need a bigger jail, 298 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: we need more jail space because we can't house all 299 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: the people. You don't hear that conversation anymore, and that was, like, 300 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: you know, fifteen years ago, twenty years ago, it's because 301 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 2: we're not holding people anymore. 302 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: Right, Twenty years ago, sy Lease used to meet with 303 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: all the judges and say, listen, we are bursting at 304 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: the themes. I'm going to have to create some new 305 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: work details and things so we can let the least 306 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: violent people out earlier. And the judges would respond, you know, 307 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: do what you need to do. We're going to do 308 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: what we need to do. You know, we're not going 309 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: to change our sentences. But you know, if you don't 310 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: have room, you got to do what you need to do. 311 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: I can't imagine that conversation is happening now where the 312 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: sheriff is saying we don't have any room. I never 313 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: hear it, right, But even if we did try to 314 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: arrest another two hundred people to fill up the jail. 315 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 1: We don't have sheriff's deputies, we don't have enough corrections officers. 316 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: Police officers have told me when they arrest juveniles now 317 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: and they bring them to juvenile jail at twenty twenty, 318 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: we call it twenty twenty. Auburn Avenue that most often 319 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: twenty twenty just says we're not going to keep them. 320 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: We just don't have enough employees. We just can't keep them. Yeah, Well, 321 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. Is it a policy issue? Is it 322 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: a staffing issue. Is it people are vilifying police correction 323 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 1: officers and then no one wants to do it, and 324 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: then that's fulfilled the plan to be understaffed and to 325 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: not be able to lock people up. I don't know. 326 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 2: If you look at the climate and CPD right now, 327 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 2: we've got a huge number officers retiring, even at early ages, 328 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 2: because they can't stand all the politics and the bs 329 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 2: and what the mayor's office and how much control they have, 330 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 2: and how their hands are tied in a lot of cases, 331 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: and they go to a suburban office or trying to 332 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: do a lattle recruiting, and I understand it's difficult because 333 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: people go well, the money's good, but you know what, 334 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,640 Speaker 2: on the job in Cincinnati, I'd rather stay where I am. 335 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 2: It's not attractive to them because the climate created by 336 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 2: the political ecosystem in Hamlin County, but specifically in the 337 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 2: city of Cincinnati. She is a judge, Betsy Senderman, who's 338 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,880 Speaker 2: running for office. The cycle will know in a couple 339 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 2: of weeks if she wins. But it's it's a tough job. 340 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 2: But we've got to reform this system because ankle monitor 341 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 2: the grant and there are probably thousands and thousands of 342 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 2: people out there that abide by the terms of the 343 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 2: deal they made with the judge and are trying to 344 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: do the right thing. But how do we segregate the 345 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: most violent people? And I'd say, if you have a 346 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 2: gun specification history of priors with guns like this Robert 347 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: schaugu I did, then I don't understand why we're giving 348 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 2: you house arrest essentially because chances are you're going to 349 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 2: break it. I think, if it's a gun speck, we 350 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 2: already have laws in the books. Let's enforce federal law 351 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: that if you're prohibited because of a felony prior felony 352 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 2: for'm owning a firearm, possessing a firearm. Then you go 353 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: to jail right away and there is no release, there 354 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 2: is no ankle monitoring going on, because you're a menace 355 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 2: to society. Betsy Siderman, I always appreciate the time and 356 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: the insight. Thanks again. You have a wonderful day. 357 00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: Judge Clownix, I like it. 358 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 2: No, I'm not going back to school. You ain't gonna 359 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 2: get me there. Hell no, I'm not taking out more 360 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 2: student loans. I'm on the wrong side of fifty and 361 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: I just finished paying mine off. Betsy, Oh the best, 362 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 2: take care, see you later. 363 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 1: All right. 364 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,400 Speaker 2: We got a news update coming in momentarily and we'll 365 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,239 Speaker 2: chop it up next about what you just heared here. 366 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,320 Speaker 2: Surprise surprise, guys out on ankle monitors and house arrest 367 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 2: and they're out shooting people. This is what this is. 368 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 2: This is the government we deserve because we elected them 369 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:44,360 Speaker 2: seven hundred w well them.