1
00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,880
Speaker 1: Michael Brown reloaded the show so good they.

2
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:10,520
Speaker 2: Won't pay you twice.

3
00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,760
Speaker 1: Maybe I could sue for residuals or something. Try that.

4
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,840
Speaker 3: Let's start with the bed rock about we're talking about Tabor,

5
00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,200
Speaker 3: and we're talking about this court, this court decision that

6
00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,840
Speaker 3: came down this past September October. And now Lake would

7
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:30,520
Speaker 3: have suddenly realize, oh shuz i am of course says

8
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,520
Speaker 3: we can't do this, and now you know, now we're

9
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:35,600
Speaker 3: you know, forty two million dollars in the hole. Really,

10
00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,640
Speaker 3: you must have missed the case like I did. The

11
00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,960
Speaker 3: Taxpayer Bill of Wrights. Not to be too elementary, here

12
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,800
Speaker 3: is a Colorado constitutional amendment, and it fundamentally limits state

13
00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:54,200
Speaker 3: government revenue raising power. The key provisions are threefold voter

14
00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:58,360
Speaker 3: approval requirements. So governments just can't raise taxes or impose

15
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,200
Speaker 3: new taxes or extending you know, an expiring tax without

16
00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,320
Speaker 3: you and I approving of it. There are revenue limits.

17
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,520
Speaker 3: That's the second point. State and local revenues cannot grow

18
00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,320
Speaker 3: faster than inflation plus population growth unless you get voter

19
00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,120
Speaker 3: approval again. And then the third and final one is

20
00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,520
Speaker 3: the refund requirement. Any excess revenue has got to be

21
00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,880
Speaker 3: refunded unless the voters approve allowing the government to keep

22
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:30,440
Speaker 3: that money. Now, the critical distinction is always between taxes,

23
00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:36,080
Speaker 3: which triggers the table requirements, and fees, which do not. Now,

24
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,760
Speaker 3: the Polybureau has essentially unlimited power to impose fees. And

25
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 3: we know that because if you like me, if you've

26
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,320
Speaker 3: gone down and registered a new car lately, you know

27
00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 3: there are there's literally like two lines that are taxes

28
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,680
Speaker 3: and then there are like fifteen lines that are all fees.

29
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,800
Speaker 3: And I've done this before, but I think it was

30
00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:58,920
Speaker 3: over on k How let me do it over here.

31
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 3: This thing depends on.

32
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,000
Speaker 1: This question what's the tax and what is a fee?

33
00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,640
Speaker 3: And there is a distinction. The Colorado Supreme Court established

34
00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,560
Speaker 3: the controlling test in a case called Bloom versus Fort

35
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,400
Speaker 3: Collins way back in nineteen eighty nine. Now, under that

36
00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,800
Speaker 3: a charge is a fee if three things are met

37
00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,679
Speaker 3: a fee. It is a fee if it's imposed for

38
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:29,320
Speaker 3: regulatory or revenue raising purposes to defray the costs of

39
00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,600
Speaker 3: a particular government service or program. So the fee has

40
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:37,639
Speaker 3: to be tied to a particular program.

41
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: Now, I could rip that.

42
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,760
Speaker 3: Apart of bazillion ways when I'm not going to right now,

43
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,280
Speaker 3: let's just just take it at face value. I know

44
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,799
Speaker 3: it's insane, but taking at face value, because we all

45
00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,679
Speaker 3: know money is fungible. When we pay our taxes or

46
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,520
Speaker 3: we pay our fees, whatever it is, that's still fungible.

47
00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,679
Speaker 3: It still goes to the government. And they could do

48
00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 3: it it really whatever they want to other than the

49
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,119
Speaker 3: fee are required to go to a particular program. Well,

50
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,840
Speaker 3: if you know, think about this, they could turn everything

51
00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,600
Speaker 3: into a fee and designate it for all the different programs,

52
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,480
Speaker 3: and of course our taxes would probably go up too,

53
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,400
Speaker 3: but it would be a lot of bookkeeping problems for them,

54
00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,959
Speaker 3: a lot of allocation problems. But they really could avoid

55
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 3: the table all together just by playing those kinds of games.

56
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 1: So a charge is a fee if it's if it's.

57
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 3: A regulatory or revenue raising scheme to defray the cost

58
00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,320
Speaker 3: of a particular government programmer service, and there has to

59
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,640
Speaker 3: be a reasonable relationship between that fee or the charge

60
00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,200
Speaker 3: and the cost of that particular program. So if your

61
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:51,880
Speaker 3: program is to raise is to raise. Trying to think

62
00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 3: of an example, Well, there's something called the peace Officers

63
00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:02,000
Speaker 3: training fee. I remember when I registered my car, Well,

64
00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,880
Speaker 3: so that is a fee that is paid to train

65
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:13,440
Speaker 3: cops to train law enforcement. Okay, there's a reasonable relationship

66
00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 3: between the charge.

67
00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:15,360
Speaker 1: And the cost of the service.

68
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,239
Speaker 3: My guess is it probably doesn't defray the entire cost

69
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,680
Speaker 3: of the service, and or they limit think about it

70
00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,839
Speaker 3: this way, never think about it just at face value.

71
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,920
Speaker 3: So if the fee for law enforcement training raises, now

72
00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:32,840
Speaker 3: again I'm just gonna pull numbers out of my butt

73
00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 3: to make to help it makes sense if that fee

74
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:42,440
Speaker 3: raises a million dollars, But the program really to do

75
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,680
Speaker 3: true law enforcement training the right way costs two million dollars,

76
00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,440
Speaker 3: but they're fee only collected a million dollars. Whether you

77
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:53,320
Speaker 3: just reduce the quality of the program or the amount

78
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,719
Speaker 3: of program that you provide to meet the amount of.

79
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,880
Speaker 1: Fee, you got it all.

80
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,240
Speaker 3: It's just all a shell game. And then there's a

81
00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:06,159
Speaker 3: third requirement. A charge is a fee if it benefits

82
00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,200
Speaker 3: the fee payer, even if indirectly or again is part

83
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:11,360
Speaker 3: of that regulatory scheme.

84
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 1: So that's a fee. I know, generally speaking, doesn't.

85
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,719
Speaker 3: Make any sense whatsoever, because there are so many ways

86
00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 3: around this, and there's so many intended and unintended consequences

87
00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:30,200
Speaker 3: of making something dependent upon a fee. If you need

88
00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:34,160
Speaker 3: to raise you know, two million dollars to pay for

89
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,920
Speaker 3: stop signs, and that's going to be a new program,

90
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,919
Speaker 3: the stop sign program. But you only get you know,

91
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:42,520
Speaker 3: instead of raising two million nose, you need to get

92
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,440
Speaker 3: a million dollars, So you only buy a million dollars

93
00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,120
Speaker 3: with stop signs. Well, that doesn't really serve the public,

94
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 3: doesn't You need two million dollars to provide the stop

95
00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:56,320
Speaker 3: signs you really need. This is all designed simply for

96
00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,599
Speaker 3: them to be able to take more of your money. Now,

97
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,200
Speaker 3: A charge is a tax if it meets three requirements.

98
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,520
Speaker 3: It raises money for general governmental purposes. You know, everything

99
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,040
Speaker 3: I just describes as a general governmental purpose. Law enforcement

100
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:18,799
Speaker 3: training is inherently a governmental purpose. Stop signs are inherently

101
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,360
Speaker 3: governmental purpose. If you're doing something that's not inherently governmental purpose,

102
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:24,720
Speaker 3: my argument has always been.

103
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 1: You should not be doing it. A charge is also.

104
00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:32,040
Speaker 3: A tax if it lacks a reasonable relationship to a

105
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,919
Speaker 3: particular service. So you pay your income taxes and it

106
00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,840
Speaker 3: goes into the general fund and then the yahoo's out.

107
00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,320
Speaker 3: The Colorado Pollup Bureau just decide how they're going to

108
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,360
Speaker 3: allocate that, you know, primarily to homeless people or drug

109
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,039
Speaker 3: addicts or illegal aliens or whatever, but not the roads

110
00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,080
Speaker 3: and highways or anything else in particular. And then the

111
00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,320
Speaker 3: third is it's primarily about a tax. It's primarily about

112
00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:58,400
Speaker 3: funding government generally rather than a specific program. You see, now,

113
00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:02,240
Speaker 3: if you were looking at my notes as I am

114
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,039
Speaker 3: right now about those three things that make up a

115
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,159
Speaker 3: fee or three things that make up a tax, you

116
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:13,480
Speaker 3: really realize it's all semantics because it's it's government still

117
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 3: forcibly taking your money and using it for ostensibly a

118
00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,160
Speaker 3: inherently governmental program. Now, the courts define this, or I

119
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:27,160
Speaker 3: should say, refined it over time. The last significant time

120
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,720
Speaker 3: was in twenty ten and Barber versus Ritter they held

121
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 3: that the various fees were actually taxes when they went

122
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,160
Speaker 3: into the general fund for general purposes. Then in Nickel

123
00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,640
Speaker 3: versus E four seventy Public Highway just in twenty eighteen,

124
00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,520
Speaker 3: they upheld toll road charges as fees because they were

125
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 3: reasonably related to the cost of that particular highway system.

126
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:53,800
Speaker 3: And I understand that you know that makes sense, But

127
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,720
Speaker 3: again I would ask you, this isn't whether it's E

128
00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,720
Speaker 3: four seventy or it's the twenty five with a two

129
00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:05,400
Speaker 3: seventy or it's you know two, it's it's eighty five

130
00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 3: or two eighty five, whatever.

131
00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,680
Speaker 1: Highway it is.

132
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:14,360
Speaker 3: Isn't that again a inherently governmental purpose? Roads, bridges and highways.

133
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,400
Speaker 3: They're just playing games with us. Then on top of table,

134
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,679
Speaker 3: we got the retailer fee statue, and back in twenty

135
00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:25,920
Speaker 3: twenty one, the Pollit Bureau passed House Built twenty one

136
00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,679
Speaker 3: twelve sixty three that imposed the retailer fee on retail

137
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:34,240
Speaker 3: delivery transactions. Now here's how it works. Twenty seven cents

138
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,480
Speaker 3: per retail delivery transaction by motor vehicle in Colorado. It's

139
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,319
Speaker 3: applied to retailers making more than two hundred annual deliveries.

140
00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,240
Speaker 3: It exempted certain deliveries like groceries, drugs, medical devices. It

141
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,559
Speaker 3: generates about twenty eight million dollars a year. The revenue

142
00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,560
Speaker 3: went to the Highway User's Tax Fund. Now, the Highway

143
00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,679
Speaker 3: User's Tax Fund is Colorado's primary highway funding mechanism. So

144
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 3: the money goes into state highway construction maintenance about sixty percent.

145
00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,880
Speaker 3: Counties about get about twenty two percent, said you get

146
00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 3: around eighteen percent. It's funded by gas taxes, vehicle registration fees,

147
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,839
Speaker 3: and all these other transportation related revenue. Oh wait a minute,

148
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 3: I said transportation related revenue in other words, from the

149
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 3: general fond. Now, the statute said the fee was for

150
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:29,640
Speaker 3: the privilege. This is don't yell, it's a messenger. The

151
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,959
Speaker 3: statute said the fee was for the privilege of engaging

152
00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:39,880
Speaker 3: in retail delivery transactions. How much more fascist can you

153
00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 3: get than that? Or Marxist can you get than that? Oh,

154
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,640
Speaker 3: we're going to allow you. We're going to give you

155
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 3: a privilege to deliver your goods or your services to

156
00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,359
Speaker 3: your consumer. Well, how very kind of you government. I'm

157
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:58,480
Speaker 3: so happy you did that. I now know that next

158
00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,079
Speaker 3: time Amazon shows up my door, or a fed X

159
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,920
Speaker 3: or DHL or anybody else or UPS, then I should

160
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,959
Speaker 3: I should not thank the driver, I should thank all

161
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 3: of the Democrats and yahoos and income poops out of

162
00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,680
Speaker 3: the polup Bureau. Oh, thank you for the privilege of

163
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:20,360
Speaker 3: allowing UPS to deliver something to my house. That statue

164
00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,840
Speaker 3: the Highway Users Trust Trust Highway Users Tax Fund said

165
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,520
Speaker 3: the fee was for the privilege of engaging in retail

166
00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 3: delivery transactions. Now, the state's argument is it's a fee

167
00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,640
Speaker 3: because it's reasonably related. Now, this is this again, don't

168
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 3: shoot the messenger. The state's argument is that they it's

169
00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,880
Speaker 3: it's a fee because they believe it's reasonably related to

170
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:50,920
Speaker 3: highway costs because delivery vehicles use highways. Huh, so it's

171
00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,240
Speaker 3: that school bus I talked about earlier today. So so

172
00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 3: did I this morning coming into work? And I actually

173
00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:03,520
Speaker 3: pay gas taxes, yes, podcas to go to highways, but

174
00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,120
Speaker 3: I also have to pay for a fee that goes

175
00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:11,439
Speaker 3: into the fund to build the highways. You see, it's all,

176
00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 3: it's all really in inherently government of purpose. They've created

177
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 3: this artificial binary choice between taxes and fees because they

178
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:28,160
Speaker 3: wanted to circumvent tabor. Now, the challengers in that case

179
00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:34,400
Speaker 3: said that this is a tax because it bears no

180
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:39,839
Speaker 3: reasonable relationship to any particular service or cost. It's not

181
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 3: tied to actual road use, to road damage, or to

182
00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,719
Speaker 3: maintaining the highways. It's just general revenue raising for highways

183
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,800
Speaker 3: disguised as a fee. But here's the court's analysis why

184
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,600
Speaker 3: the retailer fee is a tax. The court went through

185
00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:59,839
Speaker 3: the bloom factors systematically concluded that it was clearly a tax.

186
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:07,320
Speaker 3: The reasoning was several several parts of their reasoning. First,

187
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,079
Speaker 3: and I think most importantly, there was no reasonable relationship

188
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,120
Speaker 3: to specific services or costs. Remember that's what that's what

189
00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,440
Speaker 3: a fee has to be. A fee has to be

190
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,319
Speaker 3: a charge that goes to a very specific service or

191
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:20,760
Speaker 3: a cost.

192
00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:22,520
Speaker 1: This is a killer.

193
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:28,200
Speaker 3: The court found the fee bears no reasonable relationship to

194
00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,280
Speaker 3: either the actual costs imposed by a delivery vehicle coming

195
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,839
Speaker 3: up to my driveway, or to any particular governmental service

196
00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,960
Speaker 3: provided to retailers. What I mean, what's the government fighting retailers?

197
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 3: Actually they're actually costing retailers money, or it's not even

198
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 3: tied or has a reasonable relationship to the retailer's use

199
00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,360
Speaker 3: of the roadways. They're already paying taxes like the rest

200
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:55,360
Speaker 3: of us. Now, there's a couple of problems. The fee

201
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 3: is not calibrated to actual road use or damage. It's

202
00:12:57,800 --> 00:12:59,760
Speaker 3: just a flat twenty seven cents. You know, whether you're

203
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,840
Speaker 3: the delivering a paper clip across town or a furniture

204
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,120
Speaker 3: across the state. That doesn't account for the distance travel,

205
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,600
Speaker 3: the way that the vehicle, what the cargo load is,

206
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,480
Speaker 3: the type of road being used, the frequency of the deliveries,

207
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,120
Speaker 3: the fuel efficiency, the environmental impact, none.

208
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,319
Speaker 1: It just goes on and it's not related to any

209
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 1: of those things.

210
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,920
Speaker 3: Now you compare that to gas taxes where you actually

211
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,600
Speaker 3: do you pay more if you drive more, or weight

212
00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,440
Speaker 3: based registration fees you know are heavier vehicle. We know

213
00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,520
Speaker 3: trucks pay more in taxes because they cause more road

214
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:36,720
Speaker 3: wear and tear. Now, the exemptions are arbitrary from a

215
00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:42,959
Speaker 3: cost perspective. Why don't grocery deliveries impact roads? How come

216
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,720
Speaker 3: a medical device delivery doesn't impact a road? Because we

217
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,880
Speaker 3: know that it does. The exemptions are just political. Now

218
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,600
Speaker 3: they would say they're policy based. I say they're political.

219
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,560
Speaker 3: Don't make food and medicine more expensive. It's just the

220
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,440
Speaker 3: exemptions of policy base. They're not cost based. It's not

221
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,920
Speaker 3: based on the retailer's benefit from the highways. Now, the

222
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,079
Speaker 3: court noted that while the retailers obviously benefit from the

223
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:14,480
Speaker 3: highway system, they noted, pretty obviously masters are the obvious, So.

224
00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 1: Does everybody else.

225
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:17,839
Speaker 3: And you don't even have to use the roads and

226
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:23,760
Speaker 3: highways to benefit from the highways. If if you live

227
00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,560
Speaker 3: at home and you never leave your home, and you've

228
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 3: got Kingsoper's or Safeway or whoever it is, deliving in

229
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,360
Speaker 3: your groceries, Okay, or you have you know, you've got

230
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,360
Speaker 3: some of these medical services that come to your home,

231
00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,400
Speaker 3: or you've got ups or Amazon or FedEx or somebody

232
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,400
Speaker 3: else delivering goods and service. You could actually become a hermit.

233
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:45,000
Speaker 3: Never leave, yet you're still benefiting. Never pay gas tax,

234
00:14:45,640 --> 00:14:49,640
Speaker 3: but you're still benefiting because you're using indirectly the roads

235
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 3: and highways. The court said, all businesses benefit from highways

236
00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,440
Speaker 3: in Colorado. Think about this. If near benefit fit from

237
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 3: highways justifies a fee, that means I believe the government

238
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:13,400
Speaker 3: can impose fees on essentially any business activity, and they do,

239
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,000
Speaker 3: but then they exempt certain things. Why exempt groceries? Why

240
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 3: exempt medical devices?

241
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:19,080
Speaker 2: Why?

242
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 3: Why do any of those things? The second point I'd

243
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:30,920
Speaker 3: make is this, it raises revenue for general governmental purposes.

244
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:36,080
Speaker 3: This retailer fee that lake we got caught up now,

245
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:41,320
Speaker 3: even though the money goes to the highway User's tax fund,

246
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 3: it doesn't go to the general fund. The court said

247
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:49,240
Speaker 3: that's still general governmental purposes within the context of roads, bridges,

248
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 3: and highways. The Highway Users Trust funds generally highway construction

249
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 3: and maintenance statewide, so it's not really tied to any

250
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 3: specific service. For retailers and This is important because the

251
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,840
Speaker 3: state tried to distinguish the Barber case by saying, hey,

252
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 3: at least we're not putting this in a general fund.

253
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,560
Speaker 3: It's going to a very special highway fund. And the

254
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,120
Speaker 3: court said it doesn't matter. What matters is whether the

255
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:20,120
Speaker 3: fee is reasonably related to very specific costs or services,

256
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 3: not whether the revenue that you collect is earmarked for

257
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 3: a particular sector. So that brings me to this conclusion.

258
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,320
Speaker 3: It's really just revenue raising. The court looked at the

259
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,360
Speaker 3: legislative history and they found that the polit Bureau was

260
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,359
Speaker 3: primarily motivated by the need for more money for highways.

261
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,720
Speaker 3: There was a decline in gas tax revenue because of

262
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,600
Speaker 3: more fuel efficient vehicles. And it's also the polit bureau's

263
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,200
Speaker 3: desire because they wanted to are you ready for this?

264
00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,120
Speaker 3: They wanted to make sure that any of these delivery

265
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 3: companies paid their fair share.

266
00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:58,520
Speaker 1: Equity.

267
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,120
Speaker 3: And the court knows the statute's findings emphasized quote raising

268
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:10,600
Speaker 3: revenue to maintain improve the state's transportation infrastructure. Close quote well,

269
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:16,200
Speaker 3: that means general revenue purposes, not cost money or cost

270
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 3: recovery for a very specific purpose. And then the state's

271
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:28,439
Speaker 3: argument their comparison their comparisons just don't work and it

272
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:29,760
Speaker 3: conflates everything.

273
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,159
Speaker 1: And I'll explain that next.

274
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,479
Speaker 4: Hey, Michael, here's my question. If your state is raising

275
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,439
Speaker 4: all this revenue to take care of your roads and

276
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 4: going to extra steps to bring in more money than

277
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,960
Speaker 4: what the tax is bringing in, why do your roads.

278
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:46,480
Speaker 1: Suck so bad?

279
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 4: And should they have a legal liability for not using

280
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:53,399
Speaker 4: that money to maintain your roads?

281
00:17:53,440 --> 00:18:02,280
Speaker 3: Better liability for not making this undergree there is, although

282
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 3: it's very restricted. If they're on notice of a pothole

283
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,560
Speaker 3: that causes damage, then you can recoup that damage. Now,

284
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 3: before you get all excited about that, before you have

285
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 3: an orgasm about that, let me explain something. They may

286
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,400
Speaker 3: have notice of it, but they'll deny it, and you're

287
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 3: gonna have a really hard time proving that they have

288
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,760
Speaker 3: notice of it. Now, there may be circumstances in which

289
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 3: you can, but that's always going to be the case.

290
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:32,320
Speaker 3: But let's say they actually do have notice of it

291
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 3: and they have failed to repair it, and you go

292
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,120
Speaker 3: through it. Now you've got to get a realignment done

293
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 3: or you blows out a you know, a run flat tired.

294
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 3: The damage is a wheel or a rim or whatever.

295
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,320
Speaker 3: Good luck collecting that money, because by the time you

296
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,920
Speaker 3: spend all the effort going through to collect your fifteen

297
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,120
Speaker 3: hundred dollars for a rim or whatever it might be,

298
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,400
Speaker 3: you have now spent three or four thousand dollars trying

299
00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,639
Speaker 3: to collect that fifteen hundred dollars. Is pretty much when

300
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 3: I hate government. I know government is a necessary evil.

301
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 3: The problem in this country is government has grown too big,

302
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,920
Speaker 3: too intrusive, to exercises way too much power over our

303
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 3: lives and does really stupid things like, oh, you know,

304
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,360
Speaker 3: for the privilege of delivering something to my house, we're

305
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 3: going to charge you a fee. Privilege bite my ass,

306
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,680
Speaker 3: not a privilege. They're engaged in free market activities.

307
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 1: Ugh.

308
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 3: I here's where the state went in this case that

309
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,400
Speaker 3: has caused Lake was, of all places, to oh Josiah

310
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 3: Wheel forty two million dollars back to the Dutch players.

311
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 1: The state argued that the retailer fee.

312
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:51,639
Speaker 3: Is analogous to several other things, which I find interesting

313
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 3: because some of them seem to conflict. So it's almost

314
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,880
Speaker 3: as if the state was trying to argue that, hey,

315
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 3: the retailer is a fee, just because we said it

316
00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,639
Speaker 3: was a fee in court. You can't distinguish because it's

317
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 3: it just. It only matters what we say it is. Well,

318
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 3: this want to we have separation of powers. And congratulations

319
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 3: to the Colorado Supreme Court for once in my freaking life,

320
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 3: for doing something right, for a few times, for doing

321
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,040
Speaker 3: something right. The state argued, the retailer fee is analogous

322
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,840
Speaker 3: to gas taxes.

323
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,120
Speaker 1: Now, as we stop and think about that for a moment.

324
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 3: The retailer fee is analogous to a gas tax. Maybe

325
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 3: I thought taxes and fees were supposed to be distinguishable,

326
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 3: but the course said no. Fortunately, the course said, the

327
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:44,360
Speaker 3: gas taxes are directly proportional to road use. More driving, obviously,

328
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 3: more gas, more tax, And the retailer fee, they see,

329
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:53,080
Speaker 3: has no such relationship whatsoever. It's a flat amount charged everybody,

330
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 3: whether you go one mile or you go one hundred miles,

331
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 3: or whether you're driving you know, a FedEx eighteen wheeler

332
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 3: or fed X EV if the FedEx even has evs.

333
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 3: The state also said that the retailer fee is pretty

334
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 3: much the same as a registration fee. Again no, of

335
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 3: course said no. Registration fees vary by vehicle weight and type,

336
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 3: and that's a reflection of the different impacts that different

337
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 3: cars and vehicles have on the roads, and the retailer

338
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 3: fee is flat regardless of the impact, So the court said,

339
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 3: or so, then the state tried this one, Well, the

340
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 3: retailer fee is analogous to special improvement districts, of course,

341
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 3: said no, those charge property owners for very specific local improvements,

342
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:46,720
Speaker 3: and your retailer fee provides for general statewide highway maintenance.

343
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,400
Speaker 3: So you can't use that comparison. And then the court

344
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 3: finally said, the privileged language is meaningless. Let's go back

345
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,280
Speaker 3: to the statute for a moment. The statue says the

346
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 3: fee is for the privilege of engaging in retail delivery transactions. Now,

347
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 3: the court essentially just rolled its eyes at that. Calling

348
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 3: something a fee for a privilege. They said, doesn't make

349
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 3: it a fee. If his functionality is a tax, the

350
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 3: label doesn't control. It's the substance of the of what

351
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 3: you're collecting. So the court finally reached its conclusion, and

352
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 3: having concluded that the retailer fee is a tax, the

353
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 3: court said, well, it's unconstitutional under Tabor because you impose

354
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 3: it without voter approval. To severability doesn't save it.

355
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 1: Now.

356
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: Severability is where you argue that part of something may

357
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 3: be found unconstitutional, but the rest of that package is

358
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,399
Speaker 3: still okay. It's severability, and every piece of legislation they'll

359
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 3: have a severability clause saying that if one part of

360
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 3: this is found to be unconstitutional or illegal or whatever,

361
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 3: it doesn't impact the rest of the of the legislation.

362
00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,440
Speaker 3: The court here said severability doesn't save your case because

363
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 3: the state argued that if the fee is a tax,

364
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 3: then it should survive as a tax, and the Course

365
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 3: said no, because taber requires voter approval for new taxes,

366
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 3: which this never got. You can't sever the constitutional defect.

367
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 3: In other words, you can't you can't say, well, if

368
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: you find that this is unconstitutional, it doesn't count, because

369
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 3: well it's we're gonna separate that from everything else.

370
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: And of course that you can't make. You can't make.

371
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 3: Our decision about something, whether it's constitutional or not severable,

372
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 3: when the thing itself as a whole is determined to

373
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 3: be unconstitutional. The Course said that retailers who paid under

374
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 3: protests are entitled refunds. The typical rule for unconstitutional taxes.

375
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 3: You collect an unconstitutional tax, you got to pay it back.

376
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 3: And the Course said the entire fee structure is void,

377
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 3: not just void going forward, but void ab initio, meaning

378
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 3: it's a lawyer or Latin phrase for from the very beginning.

379
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 3: Now why this matters. There are huge implications for this,

380
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 3: which I love. They court made it clear they're calling

381
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 3: something a fee and then putting the money into special

382
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 3: fund not good enough. You need a really reasonable, demonstrable

383
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 3: relationship between the charge you're imposing, the costs or the

384
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 3: services that you're going to provide, and the benefit to

385
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 3: or the impact has to be quantifiable by the fee payer.

386
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: So this is a much more rigorous standard than I

387
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:37,719
Speaker 3: think Colorado governments have been applying because it now puts

388
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: dozens of fees at risk. Now you might ask, okay, well,

389
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,719
Speaker 3: if this case was decided back in September October, when

390
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 3: it was whenever the opinion was finally issued, why haven't

391
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: we had a bunch of other things boil up? Well,

392
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 3: I don't know, because lots of things won't show up

393
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 3: in Lexus Mexas shift because they're still being fought at

394
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 3: the state and local left. So you know, there may

395
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 3: be you know, arguments and ordinances and all sorts of

396
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 3: issues being you know, decided at the county level, at

397
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 3: a municipal level, even at a special district level. And

398
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 3: of course the legislature's probably you know, coming back, they're

399
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 3: back in session. So those y'all who's down, you know

400
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 3: at the Colfax on Broadway, at Colfax and Broadway, you're

401
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 3: trying to figure out, Okay, what the hell do we

402
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 3: do with this decision? And of course Lakewood is probably

403
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,760
Speaker 3: causing and I don't know, there may be other cities

404
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 3: and towns across Colorado they're going to face the same thing.

405
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 3: It just takes a while for this stuff to boil up,

406
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,639
Speaker 3: much longer than I'd like for it too, But that's

407
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 3: just the way it is. This decision unequivocally puts dozens

408
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 3: of fees at risk because Colorado has enacted hundreds of

409
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 3: fees without voter approval since Taper passed back in nineteen

410
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 3: ninety two. Now, granted, being trying to be objective here,

411
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: some of these are probably legitimate fees under the court's

412
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 3: original decision in Bloom telling us what the difference is

413
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 3: between a d ena facts a fien attacks, but a

414
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 3: bunch are now vulnerable to at least being challenged. Here's

415
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 3: some things that I think are suspect things that looked

416
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 3: like this retailer fee that was found to be unconstitutional.

417
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: I used an Uber recently.

418
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 3: Ride share fees these localities different localities, I forget. I'd

419
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 3: have to pull up my Uber app and look at it.

420
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 3: But I took an Uber. Where where was I going?

421
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: Oh?

422
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 3: I brought an Uber into work one day because that

423
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 3: was the day I was having eye surgery. So it

424
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 3: was back on January eighth. And I remember as I

425
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 3: got out of the Uber and you know, it was

426
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 3: gonna tip the guy and do all of that, and

427
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: then I get my receipt. I'm looking at what what

428
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 3: theF for all of these fees because I don't usual

429
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 3: Uber that often. So these ride share fees that these

430
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 3: localities imposed per trip on Uber and lyft, ask yourself this,

431
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 3: do those fees bear a reasonable relationship to specific costs?

432
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 3: Because of the thing for every Uber, whether I order

433
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 3: uber X or Uber ride share or Uber you know

434
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: excel or you know a suv or uber break or whatever,

435
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 3: it is no what oh a keyword for cash and

436
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 3: try in the next what is it five minutes? This

437
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 3: hour's chance to win one thousand bucks. Now we're going

438
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 3: to post a fee on it, but you actually could

439
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 3: win a thousand bucks coming up in the next five

440
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,400
Speaker 3: minutes thanks to Mercedes Benz of Littleton Mercedesoflyttleton dot com.

441
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:45,000
Speaker 2: Every semi icee on Colorado roads don't have Colorado license plates,

442
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 2: so they don't pay registration fees to help fix the

443
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 2: roads that they damage.

444
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 3: Right well, they don't pay registration fees, but they pay

445
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 3: gas taxes, they pay fuel taxes, they pay road use taxes,

446
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 3: and I think they do pay and there's even a

447
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 3: and I'm not sure what it is, but there is

448
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 3: some sort of not just interstate fee or tax that's collected,

449
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 3: but there's also a fee that's collected between trucks that,

450
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 3: whether they go into Canada or Mexico or not, still

451
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 3: pay this fee or tax. And again I don't know

452
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: what it did. I forget what it is. It's got

453
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 3: some funny acronym to it. But they pay those too.

454
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 3: If you ever there used to be, he's kind of

455
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 3: gone away, but there used to be trucks sometimes would

456
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 3: put on the back of their eighteen wheeler back of

457
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 3: the trailer. This truck pays you know, forty bazillion dollars

458
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 3: in use taxes or road use taxes every year. Normally

459
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: thought that was pretty good. That was a good idea.

460
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: Let the traveling public stuck stuck behind an eighteen wheeler

461
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:57,720
Speaker 3: know exactly what that truck's paying in taxes because guess

462
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 3: what those taxes are actually paid by. Yeah, you, whether

463
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 3: you're using that particular truck or not, you pay for

464
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 3: those fees.

465
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: Our truck. Gott.

466
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 3: I hate to ask our trucker for any information whatsoever.

467
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 3: It's just like it's just asking for a you know,

468
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 3: it's like asking for could we have like an earthquake

469
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: or some cataclysmic event. But if he could just give

470
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: us some information about what they pay it.

471
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: Would please please give me a headache? Please?

472
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 3: Yes, please, would you please just take a sledgehammer to

473
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 3: my temple? Okay, So let's go through some of these

474
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 3: suspect fees. So I mentioned the ride share. Remember we

475
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 3: also have short term rental fees. Now, there's a lot

476
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 3: of municipalities that charge per night fees for things like Airbnb.

477
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 3: Now ask yourself, are those cost recovery or is that

478
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 3: revenue sharing? If it's cost recovering for what I stayed

479
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 3: an Airbnb, I pay a fee for what is the

480
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 3: state of Colorado offering every six months to repaint the house,

481
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 3: to mow the yard, carry out the trash. No, what

482
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 3: about the retail wed fees? The retail marijuana fees. Now,

483
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 3: beyond the licensing costs, various fees are imposed on marijuana sales.

484
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: Is that proportional to the regulatory cost of regulating the

485
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 3: sale and distribution.

486
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: Of marijuana in the state. I don't know.

487
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: I'm just saying I think these are suspect fees. What

488
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 3: about the hospital provider fee because the Polybureau also imposes

489
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 3: fees on hospitals that generate federal Medicaid matching funds. Now,

490
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 3: they have survived tabor challenges before, but this new case

491
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: probably changes the analysis. And of course one of my

492
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 3: favorites the plastic bag fee. So you get charged a

493
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 3: per bag fee, revenue raising or cost recovery, But taking

494
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,720
Speaker 3: a step further, whether you think it's revenue raising or

495
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 3: cost recovery, what about all the exemptions. So I'm at

496
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: Cherry Creek maul the other day picking up a couple

497
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 3: of items that I needed and they asked me, if

498
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 3: I'd already paid, would you like a bag? And thinking

499
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: to myself, I mean, I really I was even willing

500
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 3: to pay the ten cents because I didn't have anything

501
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 3: to carry the stuff in and it was kind of

502
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 3: some clumsy little items, and I said, yes, I want

503
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: to bag. So I thought, what are you gonna do?

504
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 3: Charge me ten cents? Now they have already paid for

505
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 3: the stuff. And so when they gave me the bag,

506
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 3: I said, oh, do you not charge for bags? No,

507
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 3: we don't do that. We just rebad that cost ourselves

508
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 3: for our customers. I thought, well, we'll good for you.

509
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 3: Now I'm paying for that somewhere because you know, they're

510
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 3: having to pay for it, so they're going to increase,

511
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 3: you know, some deminimous increase in the cost of their product.

512
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: So I'm paying for it anyway. But at least I

513
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 3: didn't have to, you know, shell out a dime for

514
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: a stupid bag. But there are all sorts of exemptions.

515
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 3: You go to the grocery store, you buy a you know,

516
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: a Rabbi steak that sitting there.

517
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: On the styrophone, wrapped in plastic.

518
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 3: You go to the veggies and get you know, put

519
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: your broccoli in a plastic bag. You get everything, or

520
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 3: you know, I brought some some Thai food home for

521
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 3: leftovers from dinner last night, and of course it's in

522
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 3: a plastic.

523
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: Container and in a paper bag, and was in charged

524
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: for that.

525
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: So I think the plastic bag fees may be under

526
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: a little bit of constitutional scrutiny now, but it's a

527
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 3: great example of is that going to happen overnight? No,

528
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 3: unless unless we live in a miracle state where the

529
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 3: Democrats suddenly decide, hey, we ought to get rid of these,

530
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 3: and then of course you get all the environmental fees,

531
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 3: which you know dottn't have time to go in. At

532
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 3: least now we have a litigation template