1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: It's nice eyes, Dan Ray, I'm going ezy Boston's news Radio. 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 2: All right, well, batten down the hatches. It is going 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 2: to be a windy and rainy night across New England 4 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 2: and probably cross many areas where this program will be 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 2: heard in the next four hours. My name is Dan 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: Ray and the host of Nightside, heard every weeknight, Monday 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 2: through Friday right here on WBC Boston's news radio ten 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: thirty on your A M. Dial. My name is Dan Ray. 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 2: I'm the host of the show. We are now working 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: in year nineteen, believe it or not. Working in the 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 2: control room tonight is a Shane Stokes who has been 12 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: doing a great job all weekend. He's joined tonight by 13 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 2: Jay Belcher, So I have basically a double team working 14 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 2: tonight in the newsroom. Whoever answers the phone, be kind 15 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 2: to them. Our phone calls won't start until after the 16 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 2: nine o'clock hour. At nine o'clock, we're going to talk 17 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: about some new traffic lights in New England apparently are 18 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 2: confusing Massachusetts drivers. I mean, as if we don't have 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: enough to be worried about now, there are new traffic 20 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: lights out there. God knows where they found them. But 21 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 2: if there's money to be spent, we'll spend it in 22 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: some way. And we'll also talk We'll talk tonight with 23 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: Mike Dian he's an Axio's Bosster reporter, on the subject 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 2: of these confusing traffic lights, and then we'll also talk 25 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 2: later tonight on the whole question of how much parenting 26 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 2: are parents allowed to do? Because we have some pretty 27 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: broad and I would argue confusing child neglect laws in 28 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: Massachusetts maybe as the lawyers would say, arbitrary, vague and capricious. 29 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: So we start off with a fellow attorney, and we're 30 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: going to talk about robocalls, those wonderful calls that all 31 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: of us receive around dinner time, just as you sit down, 32 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: and they are impossible to stop with us. As Patrick Crotty, 33 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: senior attorney with the National Consumer Law Center, he's one 34 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: of the good guys. He's trying to stop the robo calls. 35 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 2: But I think that's kind of like trying to stop 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 2: the rain here in New England. To I Patrick Crowdy, 37 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:11,519 Speaker 2: Welcome to Nightside. How are you sir? Doing very well? 38 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. 39 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 4: So. 40 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: The FCC made some comments earlier this week. It was 41 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 2: I kind of interpreted them as we're throwing up our hands. 42 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,639 Speaker 2: There's not much we can do about that, and they 43 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: received some criticism for that, and there was subsequent statements 44 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 2: that were attributed to FCC spokespeople and which they said, well, actually, 45 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: we are going to do some things. So I'm confused, 46 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 2: maybe my audience is confused. I'm sure you're not. Where 47 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 2: do we stand with robo calls? I mean, is there 48 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: any way realistically to end robo calls? 49 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 5: So ending all robo calls is a certainly it's a 50 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 5: very difficult thing to do. There's a lot of concrete 51 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 5: steps that we can take, and the FCC and you 52 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 5: gave a pretty good summary. There a bit of a 53 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 5: saga over the last month. So the story, it starts 54 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 5: in a bit of a scary place. So on October seventh, 55 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 5: the Federal Communications Commission the SEC, they released the proposal 56 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 5: to issue several new rules about robo calls and to 57 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 5: repeal several existing rules. The two of the rules that 58 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 5: the Commission was thinking about repealing are actually extremely important 59 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 5: consumer protections. 60 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 4: One of the. 61 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 5: Rules that was on the chopping block says that consumers 62 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 5: can tell telemarketers and robo callers to stop calling, and 63 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 5: then if they don't, you can sue. So the SEC 64 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 5: called that the company specific do not call rule. The 65 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 5: other rule that the SEC was thinking about acting requires 66 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 5: that robo calls provide an automated mechanism that lets consumers 67 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 5: opt out of getting further robo calls. 68 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 4: Together, these rules that gave consumers a little. 69 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 5: Bit of control over the market calls and the robo 70 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 5: calls that they get. The scam calls are a bit 71 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 5: of a different matter, and I'll get to those in 72 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 5: a minute. But on the story with what the SCC 73 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 5: was doing, my organization and CLC and eight other groups 74 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 5: that advocate for consumers, we wrote a letter to the 75 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 5: SEC chairman and we met with two of the commissioners 76 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 5: and we explained why we thought repealing those consumer protections 77 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 5: around robo calls was a bad idea. Now to the SEC, 78 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 5: Credit actually agreed with us, and yesterday they released a 79 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,040 Speaker 5: new version of this proposed rule making that's no longer 80 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 5: seeking to repeal those two important consumer protections. And in fact, 81 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 5: this revised notice of proposed rule making presents several important 82 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 5: opportunities to improve the current rules to better protect consumers 83 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 5: from unwanted telemarketing calls and robo calls. One of the 84 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 5: exciting proposed rules would require that certain calls convey a 85 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 5: verified caller name to the consumers can better judge whether 86 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 5: they want to answer the phone. And then probably the 87 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 5: most exciting proposed rule would prohibit foreign originated calls that 88 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 5: spoof US phone numbers. And so the scam calls, they 89 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 5: often will use what's called the spoof phone number. It's 90 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 5: because of the way that calls can be transmitted now 91 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,679 Speaker 5: it uses the Internet instead of old copper wire phone lines. 92 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 5: So the calling number actually doesn't mean very much. It's 93 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,600 Speaker 5: just an informational field that you can put in, and 94 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 5: you can put it, put anything in that you want 95 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 5: and the call will still complete. So when you put 96 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 5: in a fake. 97 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 2: Phone, if I could, Patrick, let me ask you a 98 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 2: question that has come to my mind, and that is, 99 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 2: I think all of us know that when we're when 100 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 2: we have a problem and we want to call nine 101 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 2: to one one, we just grab the phone and we 102 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 2: hit nine one one and we're connected to either police 103 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: or ambulance service. And there are a number of other 104 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 2: eight one one numbers and numbers which which were well, 105 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 2: why can the FCC not, I guess mandate that the 106 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 2: major US carriers, you know, whichever carrier you have in 107 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 2: whatever part of the country, would not give their customers 108 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: the ability when a robocall comes through and you know 109 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 2: it's a robo call and you don't want to hear 110 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 2: from it, other than just giving you the option to 111 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 2: hang up, why not have some sort of a code 112 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 2: seven to one, one, seven to two to whatever the 113 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: code would be. You put that code in, and that 114 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:41,359 Speaker 2: particular call center will be forever blocked from calling your number. 115 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: I mean, you have it on the internet where you 116 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 2: can unsubscribe to unsolicited email. I understand that all these 117 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 2: companies are going to make a First Amendment argument and 118 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 2: a commercial First Amendment argument, And just as they have 119 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 2: a right to come up and knock on your door 120 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: and see if you want to buy you a new 121 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 2: roof or a new signing for your home, they kind 122 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: of stretch that concept so that people can be interrupted 123 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 2: at any time during the day. Is that physically Is 124 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: that something that physically would be impossible to put into place? 125 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 5: So in a sense it would, and that's because it's 126 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 5: so easy to put in a fake phone number when 127 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 5: you're making an Internet based call, so you can actually 128 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 5: block phone numbers. 129 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:26,559 Speaker 4: You can. 130 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 5: Many cellular service providers will give you the option to 131 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 5: block a phone number so that it could never call 132 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 5: you again on. 133 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 2: A problem, but not for older people who have a 134 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: home phone. There's no way to block a number as 135 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 2: far as I. 136 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 5: Know, not unless you use a special service. There's call 137 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 5: blocking services will let you do it. But in fact, 138 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 5: just blocking the phone number doesn't do a great deal 139 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 5: because they can use a new phone number to call, 140 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 5: and in fact, a lot of the scam calls and 141 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 5: unwanted telemarketing calls. They'll make millions or hundreds of millions 142 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 5: of calls, but only use each phone number one they 143 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 5: spoofed into a new number for every call, So it 144 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 5: makes it difficult, if not impossible, to block just that 145 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 5: phone number. 146 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 2: I'll tell you you're like the kid with his finger 147 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: in the dyke in Holland. I mean, it's like a 148 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: whack a mold situation. Look, you've explained it really well, 149 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: and I thank you for doing that. We'd like to 150 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 2: maybe have you come back some night and take some 151 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: phone calls from our listeners. This is sort of an 152 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 2: abbreviated seven eight nine minute interview. Maybe I'll have my 153 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: producer get back in touch, because I think this is 154 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 2: an area that I'd like to explore a little bit 155 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 2: more deeply. You really clarified a lot of questions in 156 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 2: my mind in seven, eight or nine minutes. And if 157 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: we can get you to come back and talk with 158 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: callers from all over the country, and you know, they're 159 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: probably not gonna be able to tell you something you've 160 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: never heard, but it might be an opportunity for them 161 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 2: to describe to you how bad it is out there 162 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: these days. I'm sure, and I also know you probably 163 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: realize how bad it is out there, but a reminder 164 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: would might not hurt. So if that would be appealing 165 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 2: to you, speak now or forever hold your peace, and 166 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 2: if it is, we'll get back to you and we'll 167 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: try to set something up for later on in November. 168 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 5: It would be my trew pleasure. Before I started working 169 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 5: at NCOC, I was with the Florida Attorney General's Office 170 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 5: and I've heard all manner of scams and frauds, and 171 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 5: I do really enjoy talking to consumers about it and 172 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 5: anything that I can do. 173 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: We do a lot of that at night side. We 174 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: deal with these issues and it's just amazing. If all 175 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: these people who engage in scams and frauds would actually 176 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 2: put their mind to legitimate businesses, I think their intelligence 177 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: and their creativity would reward them handsomely. Patrick, thank you 178 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: for your time tonight, and we'll be back in touch 179 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: much prayer. 180 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you, Patrick. 181 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: I have a great night when we get back. Fascinating 182 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 2: book called Lost in Time Are Forgotten and Vanishing Knowledge, 183 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 2: a fascinating exploration of more than three hundred compelling examples 184 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: of missing historical information that humanity can learn from today. 185 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: We'll be back with that author author right in just 186 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 2: a moment here on Nightside. After a couple of brief messages. 187 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio. 188 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: Delighted to welcome Jack Biliac. Jack, I'm hoping I didn't 189 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 2: destroy your last name too badly. How are you this evening? 190 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:51,079 Speaker 3: I'm great? Thank you, Yeah, Jack Bilick, Yeah. 191 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 2: Bilic, Okay, great, You've written a book that I'm going 192 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 2: to get because this sounds fascinating. Lost in Time Are 193 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 2: Forgotten and Vanishing Knowledge fascinating exploration of more than three 194 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 2: hundred compelling examples of missing historical information that humanity can 195 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 2: learn from today. I read a couple of the lists. 196 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: I didn't realize that that there has been some eye 197 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,719 Speaker 2: surgery that most of us think of being a twentieth 198 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: century development. Cataract surgery was actually accomplished by Egyptians literally 199 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: hundreds or thousands of years ago. 200 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, you know, it was pretty startling to me 201 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 3: when it ran into that. You know, we often think 202 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: that cataract surgery is a modern invention when you know, 203 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 3: they did that in eight hundred BC in India. Shushuda 204 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 3: was a physician there and he did it in eight 205 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 3: hundred BC, and then Egyptians. We have an indication that 206 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 3: the Egyptians did it in twenty four hundred BC. 207 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: So how do we know that? And I'm not being 208 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 2: a wise guy, I want to ask down, Yeah, what 209 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 2: were their writings about this? That diagrams kind of you 210 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 2: have to have some form of local anesthesia and I 211 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 2: can speak. 212 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 3: From Yeah, well, that's interesting you bring that up, because 213 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 3: you know, when we started cataract surgery in the seventeen hundreds, 214 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 3: they used to take a strong man to hold you 215 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 3: down while they did cataract surgery. Because as you're saying, there, 216 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 3: you know, your cornea of your eye has more nerve 217 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 3: endings than any other part of your body. So you 218 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 3: know how it is if you get a hair in 219 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 3: your eye, how it drives you nuts. Right, Yeah, So. 220 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 2: Any idea what they did were they using strong men 221 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 2: in Egypt. 222 00:12:54,280 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 3: And India's yea, Well, I don't know they use strong men, 223 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 3: but you know eight hundred BC when that was done 224 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: in India that we have books from that physician, and 225 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 3: those books capture his techniques and for how he did it, 226 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 3: he did it slightly different than we do it today. 227 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 3: They used they did something used to couching procedure. It's 228 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 3: called So it wasn't exactly how we did it we 229 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 3: do it. We do it a little bit better. But 230 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 3: it allowed the person to at least be able to see. 231 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 3: And so we have the writing. You know, knowledge knowledge 232 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 3: travels over language, so that's how we get that information. 233 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 3: In ancient Egypt, we have the Ebers of Pyrus and 234 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 3: that has pictures and that shows illustrations of a person, 235 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 3: I guess a physician doing an eye surgery. So I 236 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 3: mean we're assuming that you know, they were doing it, 237 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 3: and they don't have as many details, you know, but 238 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 3: we do know that they were doing it. 239 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,839 Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you give us a couple more because 240 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 2: I want to wet the appetite of my listeners where 241 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 2: they were want to there's three hundred. We're not going 242 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: to go over all of them, obviously, but no more. 243 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, one of my favorites is you know about toilets. 244 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 4: Uh. 245 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 3: You know, Thomas Crapper is often attributed to, you know, 246 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 3: doing the first toilet and ahead, yeah that was in 247 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 3: eighteen sixty one. But in reality, you know, they the 248 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 3: Romans had toilets and five hundred BC, and the Babylonians 249 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 3: had toilets in twenty nine hundred DC. But in the 250 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 3: thirteen hundreds in Middle Ages of Europe, we had no toilets. 251 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 3: I mean sewage ran off the tops of buildings and 252 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 3: into the streets. 253 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: And didn't they use like viaducts or something like that. 254 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 2: They had toilets with pipes and plumbing in. 255 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 3: Houses for some of these people. Yeah, they had, well, 256 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 3: the ancient people they had. Even the Romans had you know, bathrooms, 257 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 3: you know, public ones, you know where people would go 258 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 3: in there to. 259 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 2: Do Give me another one. So some people may be 260 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 2: eating dinner at this point. 261 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 3: Jack sorry to your listeners, apologize for that. Well, here's one, 262 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 3: you know, it's not not too upsetting, you know. I 263 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 3: think this is really interesting because the emperor Quinn, the 264 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 3: first emperor of China in two hundred BC, you know, 265 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 3: he built this army of seven thousand figures covered five 266 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 3: hundred over five hundred acres, and you know, they're excavating 267 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 3: those archaeologists have excavated those now. And what was interesting 268 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 3: about that is they had swords. And though they had 269 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 3: many different instruments, you know, arrows, bows and arrows and 270 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 3: knives and that sort of thing, but they had swords 271 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 3: that were buried back in you know, to under BC 272 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 3: that are still sharp. And you know, today if we 273 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 3: find a sword from the Middle Ages, they're dull. You know, 274 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 3: they're rusted. And but what they did is they added 275 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 3: chromium to their metal work and which kept those swords sharp. 276 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: And I wish my raisors were that would last. David Jack, 277 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 2: this sounds like a great book. I know it's been 278 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 2: out for a little while. I think it came out 279 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 2: earlier this year. Yeah, I have quite a background, having 280 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 2: uh worked in the US Air Force, had a career 281 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 2: at motor role and eventually contributed to White House technology 282 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 2: initiatives and humanitarian efforts in Haiti. So you sound like 283 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 2: a fascinating guy, and it's a fascinating book. Lost in 284 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 2: Time Are Forgotten and Vanishing Knowledge, a fascinating exploration of 285 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 2: more than three hundred compelling examples of missing historical information 286 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 2: that humanity can learn from today. That's quite a subtitle, 287 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 2: but it says a lot. And I suspect that you're 288 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: going to get a little bump. I'm assuming that the 289 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 2: best way is Amazon or is your book available in 290 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 2: a lot of bookstores as well? 291 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, Amazon, Barnes and Noble. You can get it 292 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 3: at any bookstore. They can order it. It's available hardback, paperback, ebook. 293 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: Do some some authors have their own website, which is helpful. 294 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 2: If you have a website and want to share it 295 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 2: with us, that would be great. If you don't, that's sure. 296 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 3: It's yeah, it's j R biloc b I A l 297 00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 3: I K. This is my last name dot com. Yeah, 298 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:02,440 Speaker 3: people can go there. 299 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 2: Too, jrbiling dot com. Jack. I really enjoyed the conversation, 300 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 2: even though we were talking about toilets during dinner time. 301 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 2: We'll talk again, Okay, thank you, My friend. 302 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 3: Thanks excellent, Thanks for having me on. 303 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: You're very welcome. We'll get back when I talk to 304 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 2: a real interesting fellow who have gotten to know in 305 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: the last few weeks. His name is Bob Gary, former 306 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 2: federal prosecutor. He's the co author of a book called 307 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: I Am The Author, debating the role of Islam in 308 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 2: a Divided America. Bob Gary is Jewish. He happened to 309 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 2: wrote co write this book with an Imam, a fascinating guy. 310 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 2: We'll talk to him right after the break and the 311 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: News at the bottom of the hour. 312 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio. 313 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: I am absolutely delighted to be welcoming a gentleman who 314 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 2: is a former US attorney, a prosecutor with the federal government, 315 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 2: and he is co authored a book called I Am 316 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 2: the Other, debating the role of Islam in a divided America. 317 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 2: Robert Gary, Welcome to Nightside. We've had several conversations and 318 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: I find you to be a really interesting person, and 319 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 2: I know our interview will be quite interesting. You posit 320 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,399 Speaker 2: the question, and I'm going to allow you to answer 321 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 2: the very question you posit. What does an American Jewish 322 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: attorney bent on saving democracy. That would be you and 323 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:30,639 Speaker 2: a Muslim American Imam your co author, Imam Asha Subadar, 324 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: set on restoring the true meaning of Sharia, have in common. 325 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 2: This sounds like it might be a divide, that there's 326 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 2: no bridge in the world that could connect these two 327 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 2: disparate conversations. 328 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 4: Dan, I think you've correctly identified where we stand. We 329 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 4: actually have very little in common, but that fact has 330 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 4: not stopped us from communicating with each other. And how 331 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 4: did I meetium? On Supernar? I have been lecturing on 332 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 4: Islam for many years. I was appointed by the federal 333 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 4: courts to represent the Muslim prisoners in the Northern District 334 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 4: of Ohio, and I needed an expert. I was Jewish. 335 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,920 Speaker 4: What did I know about Islam? Nothing? So we went 336 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 4: to the mosque, we hired an expert. That expert turned 337 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 4: out to be the unindicted co conspirator in the nineteen 338 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,640 Speaker 4: ninety three World Trade Center bomb. Me. In other words, 339 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 4: my expert was a terrorist. But but it wouldn't have 340 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 4: melted in his mouth. He was such a sweetheart, all right. 341 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 4: So that was that experience. Then came nine to eleven. 342 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 4: My daughter was the chief of communications for the Red 343 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 4: Cross four nine to eleven. She took me to the 344 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 4: site while it was still scheaming. 345 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 2: What experience. 346 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 4: It was. And I had press credentials from up from 347 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 4: from the journal. And that's not the Wall Street Journal, 348 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 4: that's my local paper, the Lorraine Journal. 349 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 2: And I was and I'm familiar with Lorraine, Ohio. Okay, 350 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: now are you really yes? I have, yes, I've heard 351 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 2: of it, I have. 352 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, Well it's a place to be from, and 353 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 4: I am. 354 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 2: There are a lot of places Roberts to be from. 355 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 2: But you go right, I'll let you say that, not me. 356 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 2: So you you somehow connect with Imam is a subadar. 357 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 4: Here's how I connected with him, connected with them from 358 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 4: over a passage from the Kouran. He was at All 359 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 4: Angels Church, which is like a few hundred steps from 360 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 4: our synagogues, speaking and I went over to hear him speak, 361 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 4: and he was talking about how beautiful this lave is 362 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 4: and it's a religion of peace. And so I raised 363 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 4: my hand and I said, isn't it true that Alla 364 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 4: turned some Jews into pigs and monkeys? And everybody turned 365 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 4: around and looked at you. 366 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: What what? 367 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 4: What did joke? Who would ask the question of you 368 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 4: know of a guest like that. And Emil Subidar responds, yes, 369 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 4: Ala did turn some Jews into pigs and monkeys, but 370 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 4: these pigs and monkeys formerly Jews, they didn't have any children. 371 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 4: And that and why was that important? Because the slur 372 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 4: is that the Jews are pigs and monkeys and they're 373 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 4: not even under his lot of standards because these pigs 374 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 4: and monkeys didn't have children. So I went up to 375 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 4: him after that comment, recognizing he was a very forthright guy. 376 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 4: He wasn't trying, you know, to cover a difficult passage, 377 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 4: And I said, I teach courses on Islam, and I 378 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 4: would like you to come to my courses and teeth 379 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 4: and he did. And over a period of years, I 380 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 4: mean I'm saying over ten years, we developed this relationship. 381 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 4: It isn't like a buddy buddy relationship, because a relationship 382 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 4: of mutual respect. I had a order surgery. He had 383 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 4: the seven thousand people in his mosque praying for me, 384 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 4: a Jewish lawyer at the Cleveland Clinic. I mean, that's 385 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 4: a remarkable thing. 386 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: But if I could just jump in for one second, Robert, 387 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 2: I gotta tell you you're a better human being than 388 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 2: I am because when I heard the answer to your 389 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 2: really insightful question, I thought to myself, and you've told 390 00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: me that story before, and I pondered it. I thought 391 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 2: to my self, Well, somehow this guy doesn't deny the belief. 392 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think it actually happened. But I'm 393 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 2: neither Jewish nor Muslim. I happen to be Roman Catholic. 394 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 2: I kind of imagine that that that would have happened. 395 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 2: But that's okay. But somehow he takes that event again, 396 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: whether it was metaphorical or actual, and I don't think 397 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 2: it was actual. 398 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: Uh. 399 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 2: And he then somehow comes up with a way to 400 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 2: to blunt the sting of of the the comment if 401 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 2: you get if you get what I'm trying to say. 402 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 4: Yes, but this is the key of the book. This 403 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 4: idea that you just raised is the is the essence 404 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 4: of Islam because Islam is based on the Quran. And 405 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 4: what is the Quran. You want to say, well, it's 406 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 4: a book. It is not a book. It is the 407 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 4: word of God that always existed. If you're a Sunni Muslim, 408 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 4: and when you are reading the Koran, you are transported 409 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 4: into the presence of Allah, and he is talking to you. 410 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,199 Speaker 4: In the words that he's speaking to you are the 411 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 4: words of the Koran. And among the words of the 412 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 4: Koran are he convert each urned, some Jews in the 413 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 4: pictures and monkeys. So I knew the answer to the question. 414 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:36,479 Speaker 4: Any other answer would have been would have been self 415 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 4: defeating of his own beliefs. 416 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,199 Speaker 2: No, I get it. You asked him a question to 417 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 2: which there was there was. You asked him a good 418 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 2: lawyer's question. Let me put it to you like that. 419 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: It was a really good lawyer's question. He had obviously 420 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 2: thought about it over time. 421 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 4: And no, he didn't have to think about it over time. 422 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 4: These scholars, they actually memorized the Korean. Okay, they have 423 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 4: memorized the entire book. And keep in mind, the book 424 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 4: is not by time, by subject matter. It's organized by 425 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 4: longest chapter or shortest. If you read it, it's barely intelligible. 426 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 4: So let me ask you. 427 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 2: Let me ask you this question. Okay. Uh. If the 428 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 2: scholars have read the Koran and had memorized it, he 429 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 2: must have no right. He must have recognized that that passage, 430 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 2: whether it's again, I would look at it and say, well, 431 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,719 Speaker 2: it probably was. Hopefully it was at a minimum metaphorical 432 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 2: and not actual, because I don't believe that that that 433 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 2: a just God. If any religion would allow someone Muhammad 434 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 2: or anyone else to do that. 435 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 4: Are you a Muslim, I'm not a Muslim. No, of course, no, absolutely. 436 00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 4: The whole point of the book is is to allow 437 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 4: em subar at all Muslims to have their beliefs. 438 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 2: Oh, they can, they can have their belief I'm with you. 439 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 2: I'm just saying you're a better person than I am. 440 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 4: No, I'm not. 441 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: I'm guess you. 442 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 4: I'm I'm just approaching it from my own perspective because 443 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 4: I'm not a particularly religious person. Stubidar is a religious person, 444 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 4: though that split alone would separate anyone, be they Christian, 445 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 4: be they true, be they you know, Hindu, it doesn't matter. 446 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 2: I do say this book, Robert, is a fascinating book. 447 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 2: It has come out. 448 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 4: It's an important book. 449 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 2: It's an important book as well. It's an important book 450 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 2: as well. And maybe this is the book that will 451 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 2: lead to greater understanding and world peace. I would hope. 452 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 2: So I don't know that. I'm sure Emamu is a 453 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 2: wonderful human being. I just wish that well, I wish 454 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 2: all the success in this book. How can people get 455 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: this book? Because there will be people in my audience 456 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 2: who want to read this. 457 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 4: So I am the Others available on Amazon. You just 458 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 4: go to Amazon and put it. I am the Other 459 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 4: in my name Robert Gary. We have a website. I 460 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 4: am Theother dot org. If you go to the website 461 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 4: and buy the book, we will, and you put a question, 462 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 4: we will we will open a dialogue with you about 463 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 4: the book. I mean, actually, person to person, will be 464 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 4: thrilled to do that because the purpose of the book 465 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 4: is to open a dialogue. 466 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 2: Robert, I stand in awe of what you're attempting to do, 467 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,239 Speaker 2: and I mean that seriously. This is the equivalent of 468 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:52,239 Speaker 2: climbing Mount Everest to bring to bring people together. I 469 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 2: do it every night, not on this subject, but on 470 00:28:54,640 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 2: very many subjects. And I commend you for the effort. 471 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 2: I really hope more people go to your website. I 472 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 2: am the Other. Did you say it was a dot org. 473 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 4: It's a dot org. I am the Other dot org. 474 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 4: And at that website you can buy the book, you 475 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 4: can enter into the dialogue. Lots of their pictures from 476 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 4: you know, I've been to Kuran, I mean Iran and 477 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 4: the United a re Emirates and Bahrain and met with 478 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 4: emaps all over the world and Subadar. He gave the 479 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 4: inaugural prayer for Biden when Biden was inaugurate. I mean 480 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 4: there are photographs that tied back to the book. 481 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 2: Gotcha and look. I I so appreciate your time tonight. 482 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 2: I think that you have explained it really well. Uh 483 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: and particularly as someone who has read some of it 484 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 2: and hopes to read at some point all of it. 485 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 2: I am thank you. 486 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 4: For having. 487 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: Welcome. By the way, it is Robert g A r 488 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 2: O Y. I have the name Dan Ray, so Robert 489 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: has left me sort of like two first names, as 490 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 2: it were, but his last name is Gary, so it's Robert. 491 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 4: You know what that'll get you? That won and get 492 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 4: your cup of coffee, I know. 493 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 2: G A R Y. Congratulations and congratulations on your successful 494 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 2: surgery at the Cleveland Clinic, one of the great panical 495 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 2: facilities in the world. Thank you again, Robert. We will 496 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 2: talk soon. I will get back here. We'll have a 497 00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 2: follow up conversation. 498 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 4: Thank you very That would be terrific. I would look 499 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 4: forward to it. 500 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 2: Thank you much. I do as well. 501 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 4: All right, good night, everybody. 502 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: Good Night Robert. When we get back, we're going to 503 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 2: talk about lithium ion battery fires. They're unpredictable and they're dangerous, 504 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 2: and what can we do to, if not eliminate them, 505 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 2: minimize them. Back on nights Side right after the break. 506 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: It's night Side with Ray on Boston's news radio. 507 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 2: This is an important segment. My guest is doctor Lewis Gritso, 508 00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: Doctor Gritzell, Welcome to night Side. 509 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 6: Thank you, Dan, pleasure to be here. 510 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,480 Speaker 2: You were the chief science Officer and staff senior vice 511 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 2: president for commercial property insurer FM Global. I'm familiar with 512 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 2: FM Global, a leader in property loss prevention and business continuity. 513 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 2: We're going to talk about lithium ion battery fires. They're predicted, 514 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: they're unpredictable, and they're dangerous. Uh. And was it earlier 515 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 2: this month there was a laptop computer which self ignited. 516 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 2: It was in the overhead compartment of a their China flight. 517 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 2: I've seen the picture of the blaze going on in 518 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: the overhead compartment. Everybody in the world who gets on 519 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 2: a plane these days has a laptop computer. Right, what 520 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 2: what can we do to prevent this stuff? This is 521 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 2: this is now we're all walking around with like little 522 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 2: hand grenades. 523 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, this is a tough one, Dan. I mean the 524 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 6: lithium ion batteries that are in everything from laptop batteries, 525 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 6: e bikes, power tools, cameras. They have a certain way 526 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 6: that they're built and the way that they can fail. 527 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 6: When they do, feel it tends to be pretty severe. 528 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 6: You know, we think of lithium as being something a 529 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,160 Speaker 6: metal that reacts with water. Well, these are actually lithium ion. 530 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 6: They are the lithium salt that moves in a fluid 531 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 6: between the positive and negative sides of the battery, and 532 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 6: there's a separator film in between them, and that separator 533 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 6: film moderates that flow of ions or charges back and forth. 534 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 6: If that separator film gets damaged, then the energy in 535 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 6: the battery is is released very quickly in an uncontrolled way, 536 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 6: and there's a lot of heat that's generated fast, and 537 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 6: the electrolyte the fluid that they move in is very flammable. 538 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 6: So all those things kind of stack up to when 539 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 6: a failure occurs, it tends to it can be pretty 540 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 6: severe and very quick quickly grow fire result from it. 541 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 2: Is there any way to anticipate this? Is there any uh, 542 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 2: you know, tests that people can do on their laptop. 543 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of laptops because that is what would prompted us. 544 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 2: There are other things. You have your cell phone in 545 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 2: the summertime, your cell phone feels a little warmer than 546 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: it normally does. Uh. Is there any sort of uh, 547 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: you know test, You know, you can test your swimming 548 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 2: pool for acidity and alkalinity with those those strips. Is 549 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 2: there anything like that that is available? 550 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 6: Well, I think the place to start is to make 551 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 6: sure that the components and the charging systems that are 552 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 6: used are high quality. You know, don't don't buy off 553 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 6: brand things that you know that that are not name 554 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 6: brands that haven't gone through the right certification. You can 555 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 6: look on the back they should have a bunch of 556 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,040 Speaker 6: certification marks on them. But then it's it's really how 557 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 6: you handle it. What what causes that separator film to 558 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 6: damage and and the battery to go into what's called 559 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 6: thermal runaway is when that separator films damage, that heat 560 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,880 Speaker 6: is very quickly released. The fluid inside vaporizes, pressurizes the battery. 561 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 6: You see this big puff of vapor coming out, and 562 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 6: then it's so hot that it catches on fire. So 563 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 6: so avoid anything that's a mechanical or crush hazard to 564 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 6: the battery because that can damage that separator film. 565 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 2: So what do you mean by avoid anything that's a 566 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 2: crush I mean you're not gonna put it under great pressure. 567 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,359 Speaker 2: I get that, you're not going to run it over 568 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 2: with a steamroller. 569 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:31,399 Speaker 4: Right. 570 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,279 Speaker 6: Well, yeah, if you do happen to drop it or 571 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 6: crush it somehow, you know, you set it out, you 572 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,680 Speaker 6: run it over with your car. That's a battery you 573 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:39,399 Speaker 6: should not use. 574 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 2: Guys. Make sure that's a good tip. 575 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 6: Keep it, keep it away from anything for a while, 576 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 6: make sure it doesn't go into thermal runaway. And this 577 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 6: runaway refers to the fact that all of these batteries. 578 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 6: A laptop battery typically has three to nine individual cells 579 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 6: in it, and they can be like a jelly roll 580 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 6: or flat layers, depending upon the battery, and one sale 581 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 6: fails and then it overheats the other cell and it 582 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 6: fails and it just kind of cascades down. And that's 583 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 6: one of the reasons why these battery fires can be 584 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:16,960 Speaker 6: very severe because they just continue to cascade through. So so first, 585 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 6: for sure, you know, get good name brand components, good 586 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 6: good chargers, and avoid that mechanical crush that can damage 587 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 6: a separator. The other thing that can damage the separator's temperature. 588 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 6: If the battery gets too hot, that separator, that film 589 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 6: that moderates the flow of energy can can basically melt. 590 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 6: Keep it out of the direct sunlight any time. Yeah, 591 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 6: anytime you see that battery or you feel that battery 592 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 6: getting hot, you know, disconnect it, unplug it, move it 593 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 6: to someplace, you know where if something does happen, it's 594 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,239 Speaker 6: not going to have really bad consequences. Now, now, the 595 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 6: temperature which a separator fails is still fairly high. It's 596 00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 6: it's one hundred and seventy five Fahrenheits, So you know, 597 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 6: it's not like if you're out in the summer day 598 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 6: you have to worry about it going into thermal runaway. 599 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 6: But if it's you know, if it's in the sun, 600 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 6: in direct sun, or if it's in an area that 601 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 6: can be very very hot, certainly watch out for it. 602 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,799 Speaker 2: Doctors, Doctor Griscom, I'm unfortunately we're flat out of time, 603 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 2: but you've given us, in a short period of time 604 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,400 Speaker 2: an immense amount of information. Maybe what we could do 605 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 2: is bring you back some night and talk to listeners. 606 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 2: Would you be willing to do that in the longer format, 607 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 2: be glad to thank you. We will. I'll have my 608 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 2: producer back in touch with you, folks, because the information 609 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 2: you provided is invaluable and you've done it in about 610 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 2: seven minutes. I ended up going a little long with 611 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 2: the prior guests and for that I apologize. And if 612 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 2: I could get you to come back, I'd love to 613 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 2: have you have an opportunity to have people ask you 614 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 2: questions because you sound like a great a great font 615 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 2: of knowledge and information. And we'll get back in touch, 616 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 2: doctor Lewis Gritsco. Thank you, sir. We will be back 617 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 2: in touch, I promise. Thank you. 618 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 6: Sounds great, Dan, and there are things that we can 619 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:05,720 Speaker 6: do to prevent these from happening. 620 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 2: That's the most important thing. That's a service that I 621 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 2: can provide my view, my listeners through you, Doctor Lewis Gritsko, 622 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,120 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. He with FM Global and we'll 623 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 2: talk more about the company when you come back. Thanks again. 624 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 2: When we get back right after the nine, we're going 625 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 2: to talk about new confusing traffic lights only in Massachusetts 626 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,520 Speaker 2: from Massachusetts drivers, where do you hear this story? Coming 627 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 2: back on Night's side