Speaker 1: You want to be an American idiot, got flowing show
Speaker 1: back on seven hundred w OLW on this Monday morning
Speaker 1: and cause to celebrate something we probably normally wouldn't celebrate.
Speaker 2: And you know, you take these things as they come.
Speaker 2: And sadly, on Friday, we heard that a plane and
Speaker 2: this would be an F fifteen East Strike Eagle shot
Speaker 2: down over southern Iran on Friday. That's the first US
Speaker 2: fighter jet loss to enemy fire and well over twenty years.
Speaker 2: The two crew members ejected. The pilot was recovered. However,
Speaker 2: it became a rescue operation for the weapons officer and
Speaker 2: finally he was saved, and a retired Navy seal and
Speaker 2: Army ranger breaks down the most daring rescue mission in
Speaker 2: a generation. This is stuff that books and movies will
Speaker 2: be written about. He's at galleryin Ed's in Kentucky, former
Speaker 2: Seal Team six operator, Army ranger and now Trump endorsed
Speaker 2: congressional candidate there in the Commonwealth.
Speaker 3: Ed, how's this morning find you?
Speaker 4: Good morning? Well, it's a little chili od here on
Speaker 4: the farm. So we got a general rule and the
Speaker 4: folks up there in Ohio will second the motion on this.
Speaker 4: You don't put your cover alls up until Derby Day.
Speaker 4: Just keep them right there in the pickup struck and
Speaker 4: we need them this morning. So dreading to the listeners,
Speaker 4: thanks for having me on, Scott, gotcha.
Speaker 2: So it's cover alls, Derby Day, plant flowers, Mother's Day,
Speaker 2: got it? That is the That's the rule of thumb,
Speaker 2: exactly right, that's the rule of thumb.
Speaker 3: Right there. Let's talk about this.
Speaker 2: Both crew ejected and Aran says, hey, we have them
Speaker 2: in custody. You never obviously want to believe that. And
Speaker 2: the timeline is rather interesting. But to walk us through
Speaker 2: what an airman in this case is actually trained to
Speaker 2: do in the seconds after ejecting over hostile territory.
Speaker 3: What's the first priority?
Speaker 4: Hey, well, thank you for the question. And I do
Speaker 4: want to celebrate the forces that got both those great
Speaker 4: Americans out. And here's the lens that I see this,
Speaker 4: right you are. I've served on seven seal teams and
Speaker 4: units that's sort of like a battalion. You know, it's
Speaker 4: a fighting unit. It says not just fixed people. It's
Speaker 4: over two hundred except for Seal Team sick. That's different.
Speaker 4: Won't go into that there twice as the leader, it's
Speaker 4: cloudy classified. But I see this through the lens of
Speaker 4: not only having gone through Navy Feer School, but I
Speaker 4: also went through what's called High Risk SEER. That's a
Speaker 4: whole other level up here in the US, and I'm
Speaker 4: a NATO Combat Survival instructor. And the profile there was
Speaker 4: a course against the Russia, who was very, very highly
Speaker 4: technical skilled to find out our down to air crewman
Speaker 4: if they got shot down in a hostility. So all
Speaker 4: that to say is we got to give credit to
Speaker 4: those aircrews because when they punch out, that aircraft is
Speaker 4: going several hundred miles an hour and they are basically
Speaker 4: shot out by small rocket out of that aircraft into
Speaker 4: the air at a very high altitude, typically not sure
Speaker 4: what profile they were on here, and so it is
Speaker 4: a shock to the system. And many times folks that
Speaker 4: ejected help they'll have lifelong back injury. Now, the key
Speaker 4: thing is mindset, so they have to keep their wits
Speaker 4: about them. Yeah, there's the mechanics that coming out of
Speaker 4: the aircraft flow down on their parachute hitting the ground,
Speaker 4: and again they're not hitting a prepared drop zone. There's
Speaker 4: no telling where they're hitting. So it's a shock to
Speaker 4: the system. All that to say credit to them, because
Speaker 4: the training upstream to have the mindset to keep their
Speaker 4: wisth about them is what helped carry the day because
Speaker 4: they had to hit the ground and follow the tactics,
Speaker 4: techniques and procedures that are established so they could be rescued.
Speaker 4: So Scott, that's sort of a broad overview.
Speaker 2: Okay, And so yeah, I think with Peeli realized, oh
Speaker 2: we jumped out in the parachute. No, that the whole seat,
Speaker 2: part of the inirframe there's attached to You're basically going
Speaker 2: to chair when you land in that thing. I don't
Speaker 2: know if that's does that cause more pain? And do
Speaker 2: they even train for that? I mean, I know that
Speaker 2: they're simulators like I did a thing whereas in the
Speaker 2: dunk tank and they upside down for a helicopter landing water,
Speaker 2: But do they simulate that?
Speaker 3: Is there any way to practice that?
Speaker 4: There's no way to practice the actual truth. I understand
Speaker 4: that the impact on the on the spine is north
Speaker 4: of seven g's. Yeah, and so all that to say
Speaker 4: it many times causes permanent injury, as they have found.
Speaker 4: So now let's talk about when they hit the ground
Speaker 4: and what happens next. If we could. Yeah, Now, what
Speaker 4: I want the listeners to know is long before this,
Speaker 4: there are forces that train equipped and they are literally
Speaker 4: standing by what do we have, like ten thousand plus
Speaker 4: targets we've hit. They're standing by to launch on a
Speaker 4: moment's notice to rescue a down aircrewman while these operations
Speaker 4: are going on. So every flight that's up there, there's
Speaker 4: a force setting there, you know, sort of like a
Speaker 4: you know, a reaction force, and they are watching and
Speaker 4: waiting for the word to go. So once that happened,
Speaker 4: that put into motion. But it's very dynamic because now
Speaker 4: you've got to adjust to the specific threat and there's
Speaker 4: a lot of technicalities that go into place that are
Speaker 4: very classified. But the key is that aircrewman hits the
Speaker 4: ground and he's got to follow the established procedures to
Speaker 4: optimize the probability or we say recover in this case
Speaker 4: because he's not in custody yet that would be a rescue,
Speaker 4: but it's a recovery operation. So there's literally elements within
Speaker 4: the United States Air Force, augmented by other services and
Speaker 4: services and government agencies that do this. It is very
Speaker 4: very sophisticated. In this case, a lot of presses have
Speaker 4: been given that my old unit, STILL Team six was
Speaker 4: selected to be the force on the ground because of
Speaker 4: the threat. So the combat search and rescue element was
Speaker 4: now added to a STILL Team six to be the
Speaker 4: force on the ground to actually get the down to
Speaker 4: air crewmen. In the second case, the one that basically
Speaker 4: evaded for a while four years rescue. So there's some
Speaker 4: pieces that went on there that even talking about in
Speaker 4: the other President want to I don't want to give
Speaker 4: away some of our capabilities to help the enemy. But
Speaker 4: a lot of credit goes to everything that happened and
Speaker 4: upstream in all the development of the United States has
Speaker 4: But in the end it was also decisiveness. The commanders
Speaker 4: on the ground have got to act very quickly. You
Speaker 4: can't get behind on this or the enemy will get
Speaker 4: a hold of you. Because it is a proper danned
Speaker 4: absolute It is a basically a winning day for Iran
Speaker 4: if they were able to get there.
Speaker 2: Sure, look what happened with President Carter, right, I mean
Speaker 2: when your capture, when you shoot down aircraft and capture airman,
Speaker 2: then it becomes a nightmare at this point and the
Speaker 2: optics are terrible, but we pulled a miracle off and
Speaker 2: this is some may say a miracle from this side
Speaker 2: of it, I guess, but in your line of work, Ed,
Speaker 2: when you're a Seal Team six operator, you guys go,
Speaker 2: it's just what we do. Ed gall right on the
Speaker 2: show this morning on Scott's Loan here starting us off
Speaker 2: with some good news about what's happening. And that was
Speaker 2: a crew members shot down on Friday. The second one
Speaker 2: was rescued just a few while I can almost say
Speaker 2: a few hours ago. It feels like it was pretty intense.
Speaker 2: The colonel, by the way, so this is the weapons officer.
Speaker 2: He moved away from his ejection point before he activated
Speaker 2: his rescue beacon and then he hiked I think a
Speaker 2: seven thousand foot ridge line and wedged himself into crevis.
Speaker 2: One of the reasons why we would do that, I guess,
Speaker 2: activating the beacon after you've scaled a seven thousand foot
Speaker 2: climb and then was able to wedge yourself in a
Speaker 2: crevice to hide.
Speaker 3: What are the tactics of that.
Speaker 4: Well, because of the adversary capability, because remember I ran
Speaker 4: as being assisted, as is being told on the press.
Speaker 4: I can't go in any further detail, but it appears
Speaker 4: China and Russia and North three are assisting them. Even
Speaker 4: though those are highly sophisticated beacons tracking devices, you have
Speaker 4: to be worried that the adversary can locate that. So
Speaker 4: getting out of the key thing, back of that mindset.
Speaker 4: As for he went through the shock of ejection, and
Speaker 4: again credit to him and the training that went upstream.
Speaker 4: You know before this ever happened. He's got to get
Speaker 4: out of that area rapidly because the local populace, some
Speaker 4: of them may report it. That's where the Iranian forces
Speaker 4: are going to flow to. So he's got to get moved,
Speaker 4: quit and get out of that particular zone. So to
Speaker 4: make it more difficult. So to your point that beacon
Speaker 4: is going to be based on again tactics, techniques and procedures,
Speaker 4: is it is going to be activated when the circumstances
Speaker 4: are optimal for us to track him and find him
Speaker 4: using all the capabilities of the US military and government agency.
Speaker 4: And something else I want to add here is just
Speaker 4: think about it. To the credit you gave the Field
Speaker 4: Team six and our sister unit Delta, that is not
Speaker 4: regular special operations units in the right term, Scott, thank
Speaker 4: you for using that. This was a special operation, special
Speaker 4: Forces of specifically Screenberry are but this is the element
Speaker 4: went in there. I want the listeners to remember that
Speaker 4: every minute of every hour of every day of every
Speaker 4: week of every month of every year, these units set
Speaker 4: alert to conduct these kind of sensitive activities and operations
Speaker 4: all over the world, and just think about it. They
Speaker 4: do not I know it's going to bust your bubble.
Speaker 4: They do not always make the media, fortunately, and that's
Speaker 4: the world they live in. And I want to give
Speaker 4: you sort of a sort of a framework. They live
Speaker 4: in the world between peace and war, in a gap
Speaker 4: where you're always at war, but it's in the shadows.
Speaker 4: That is not hype, but it's not bravado. It's what
Speaker 4: our nations asked us to do. It is a very
Speaker 4: high commitment that they have and a higher level of performance.
Speaker 4: But there's a lot to celebrate here. It's not just
Speaker 4: guys with guns. These guys are smart. They helped plan
Speaker 4: to conduct this operation and that they prevailed against all
Speaker 4: odds a lot to celebrate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Steal Team six as you mentioned, Delta
Speaker 2: Force and Rangers are on standby for this mission.
Speaker 3: But also we got to credit the CIA.
Speaker 2: They ran a disinformation campaign simultaneously with the military operation.
Speaker 3: How tightly coordinate does it have to be? And and
Speaker 3: how does that? How do you how do you coordinate that?
Speaker 2: And and by the way, with it's not like you
Speaker 2: knew this was going to happen, as they didn't have
Speaker 2: this in their pocket to pull out. I mean, you
Speaker 2: guys planning and you make it up on the fly.
Speaker 2: There's no, there's not much intel.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, I want to know. I want
Speaker 4: to slightly No, we had the contingent. We always plan
Speaker 4: in these most dangerous course of action. So right there
Speaker 4: on a dry race board, and I've been there a
Speaker 4: thousand times. We have in these most dangerous course of
Speaker 4: action shot down air crew behind enemy lines, unlocated. We've been,
Speaker 4: isn't We've already got the contingency. We we've got to
Speaker 4: play just like a football team. But the dynamics to
Speaker 4: your point of putting it in play and when it happened,
Speaker 4: because now you've got to adjust there really what's going
Speaker 4: on on the ground, right and you have last stiff
Speaker 4: empowered as opposed to the previous administrations because you time
Speaker 4: is against you. But you know you just mentioned something
Speaker 4: with respect to you know, those particular units, uh, working
Speaker 4: with our I'm gonna just say generally our agency brothers.
Speaker 4: And I'll tell you the best chow at the cafeterias
Speaker 4: in the Washington, DC area is at the CIA headquarters,
Speaker 4: at the food course there. I can vouch for that.
Speaker 4: I can say no more. I can say no more,
Speaker 4: but they have pretty good eating right there. Right. But
Speaker 4: but we worked with them. Remember I just I just
Speaker 4: mentioned there's that band between peace and war. This isn't hype,
Speaker 4: this isn't bravado. It exists. So our nation complete safety
Speaker 4: in their bed at night. We work with our agency
Speaker 4: partners all over the world. It isn't new to us.
Speaker 4: So hats off to the agency. Because you hit, you
Speaker 4: hit a key point. There was a bit of a diversion,
Speaker 4: a distraction. Oh we found him. Now, you remember, Scott.
Speaker 4: I've said on the radio station before, things that are
Speaker 4: not always what they've seen. So purposely we use this
Speaker 4: information and misinformation on the battlefield to confuse our enemies.
Speaker 4: They do the things to us. But you're right, it
Speaker 4: was very clever. It's not just guys with guns that
Speaker 4: show up and do bad things to bad people who
Speaker 4: deserve it. There's a lot of intellectual activity. That's what
Speaker 4: I'll say about Steal Team six and Delta.
Speaker 2: Those guys are smart at Gal Ryan take us to
Speaker 2: the pilot's perceptive thirty six hours he's injured by the way,
Speaker 2: hikes to a seven thousand foot ridge line, wedges in
Speaker 2: a crevice of automates, his beacon. What is a pilot
Speaker 2: carrying on him or her at that time? What equipment
Speaker 2: that they have ready to go on their person? And
Speaker 2: how long can they survive?
Speaker 4: He great question the listeners can basically do you know
Speaker 4: a quick search of normal Air Force aircrew combat equipment
Speaker 4: survival VEST He's going to have his deacon. He's going
Speaker 4: to have his pistol. He's going to have fire starting equipment.
Speaker 4: He's gonna have also the ability to catch game if necessary,
Speaker 4: if it's a long term survival. He's going to have
Speaker 4: signaling devices some that I can't go into that are
Speaker 4: classified with respect to can only be seen with certain
Speaker 4: the source of optics. So that VEST is going to
Speaker 4: be under all his other equipment. But he's the key
Speaker 4: thing I want to emphasize here is his mindset of maturity.
Speaker 4: That in his mindset, it's like running a football player
Speaker 4: taking that three point shot. He's got to have the
Speaker 4: ability to act because what we've seen in the past
Speaker 4: is is they get on the ground, they get disoriented,
Speaker 4: they you know, they become overcome by the dramatic impact
Speaker 4: of the ejection. So credit to him. And also I
Speaker 4: want to point out I don't know if he's a
Speaker 4: full bird colonel, not likely, probably a lieutenant colonel. At
Speaker 4: his senior leadership level he was. Probably he might have
Speaker 4: been the squadron commander or the number two. He would
Speaker 4: have been a gold mine for the operations that have
Speaker 4: gotten this, not only for propaganda, but the interrogation he
Speaker 4: would have gone through to try to get, you know,
Speaker 4: capabilities that the US has. Because a good thing to
Speaker 4: celebrate here for the listeners. We are fighting a twenty
Speaker 4: first century plus war. The key thing about what's going
Speaker 4: on in Iran, in addition to taking one of the
Speaker 4: full horsemen of apocalypse off the table and their ability
Speaker 4: to get a nuclear weapon, i e. The Aatola was
Speaker 4: a suicide bomber looking for a new full stop. Having
Speaker 4: said that is we're pushing to turn poker chips back
Speaker 4: on the table with China, with Russia and with North Korea.
Speaker 4: That is one of the major outcomes of what's going
Speaker 4: on in Iran. And again we're north of ten thousand
Speaker 4: targets hit. I mean, just this is the likelihood of
Speaker 4: a bird strike when you start doing the statistical probabilities
Speaker 4: of what it could occur. When you have that many
Speaker 4: aircraft lyne and that many capabilities puts you at risk.
Speaker 4: So a lot to celebrate here in our great nation
Speaker 4: this week as a crew as the recovered, but continue
Speaker 4: to pray for them. They're in harms way and they
Speaker 4: are doing things to make our nation safer as a
Speaker 4: result of these Operation Scott, thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think one of the one of the more fascinating
Speaker 2: things to me at Gal Ryan is that they launched
Speaker 2: this rescue operation launch from a airstrip twenty five miles
Speaker 2: inside of Iran. That was, as you mentioned, preposition for contingencies.
Speaker 4: How's that?
Speaker 2: How longs take something like that, then asset like that
Speaker 2: to develop and there could only be not that many
Speaker 2: people know it exists, and certainly not the Iranians.
Speaker 4: Well again I can't I won't divullete anything classified, but
Speaker 4: I want you to think about it like a football
Speaker 4: team and they've got Hey, we've got this one. Hell
Speaker 4: Mary path, we're going to practice that, practice that practice it.
Speaker 4: We're not exactly sure what yard line will be on,
Speaker 4: We're not exactly sure of the weather conditions, we're not
Speaker 4: exactly sure the defense they'll be running. But here's our
Speaker 4: base play. So you have the base play and I'm
Speaker 4: sure that makes sense to you, or like the three
Speaker 4: point shots from the corn, You've got your base play,
Speaker 4: but you make some final adjustments right there at the
Speaker 4: last puddle and then out you go. But what this
Speaker 4: relies on is is the is the intellectual ability of
Speaker 4: these warriors to do this. And I'll say it again, Yeah,
Speaker 4: these guys are good in the weight rooms. Yeah they can.
Speaker 4: They can run fast, they can swim far, and they're
Speaker 4: very strong and sit. But their mindset and their intelligence
Speaker 4: is what carries the day because you got to keep
Speaker 4: your wits about this. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah totally.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, we tend to get tunnel vision
Speaker 2: and are you know, breathe differently and our heart race
Speaker 2: is under pressure and yeah, if you're at that level
Speaker 2: of elite operator, you've got to be able to control
Speaker 2: all that stuff. The President called this one of the
Speaker 2: most daring rescue operations in US history. You've done this
Speaker 2: in real time, Ed Gail Ryan, how far up the
Speaker 2: list is a rank.
Speaker 4: Or it'll be It'll be way up there. When the
Speaker 4: books and movies coming about about this, it's going to
Speaker 4: be a patriotic explosion because of all the things that
Speaker 4: had to happen, because there's there's so many unknowns in this.
Speaker 4: And you're exactly right. I spent my career planning these
Speaker 4: contingencies and conduct in what you would call very sensitive activity,
Speaker 4: not exactly like this, but the same kind of high stakes,
Speaker 4: high risk scenarios in that band between peace and war
Speaker 4: where you're at war all the time, when you're at
Speaker 4: steelt six or Delta or some other select units and
Speaker 4: activities in our nation so we can stay safe. Oh,
Speaker 4: it'll be very high up there, and it's going to
Speaker 4: be jaw dropping. It is going to be absolutely jaw dropping.
Speaker 4: And this is going to be one of the families
Speaker 4: you're gonna want it to go to. And I guarantee
Speaker 4: you it will increase recruiting for both officer and listed. Again,
Speaker 4: one of this movie in this book comes out.
Speaker 3: Guarantee, Yeah, I get it.
Speaker 2: Ed gl Ryan running against Thomas Massey in Kentucky for
Speaker 2: that concresial seat with some of the most bizarre ads
Speaker 2: I've ever seen. Talk about a disinformation campaign. Ed, you
Speaker 2: just laid out killing the enemies and airstrikes and everything.
Speaker 2: You don't sound very woke.
Speaker 5: Well, I'll say you that the veteran community has basically
Speaker 5: told me, I guess I should have got three Bronze
Speaker 5: Star medals and two combat jump badges with bronze stars
Speaker 5: based on that ai AD he's running that.
Speaker 4: I've got lack of courage running all veterans for clarity,
Speaker 4: It is an insult that anyone has put their life
Speaker 4: on the line to include leading others in combat. So
Speaker 4: all that to say, that's all the Liz Cheney of
Speaker 4: Kentucky has after fourteen years in Congress, That's all he
Speaker 4: has is an ai AD to attack the only retired
Speaker 4: Navy seal officer that serves our nation on seven seal
Speaker 4: teams in units to include White the Steal Team six.
Speaker 4: So all that's to say, his desperation is only exceeded
Speaker 4: by this honesty. And again it's an insult to anyone
Speaker 4: to serve.
Speaker 2: He is Ed Gollryan seeking your vote for this Congressional
Speaker 2: race and the Commonwealth Retired Seal Team six Army Ranger
Speaker 2: and could go on for probably another five to ten
Speaker 2: minutes about all the awards and decorations he received serve
Speaker 2: our country honorably. Ed, thanks for jumping on the show
Speaker 2: and laying this out this morning. It's absolutely fascinating and
Speaker 2: some good news finally in a world it seems like
Speaker 2: we're lacking good news, all the best and good luck.
Speaker 4: Yes, thank you so much. I gotta get some farm
Speaker 4: work done.
Speaker 6: Thank you to the listeners, God bless them.
Speaker 2: Yes, sir, thank you, Ed, appreciate it. Let me get
Speaker 2: news in the picture here in just seconds. It's going
Speaker 2: to be a hell of a movie. Can't wait for
Speaker 2: it be on Netflix at about two hours seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: See, not all bad news this weekend. Regardless of where
Speaker 2: you stand on what's happening in Iran. We'll take the
Speaker 2: victory lap on rescuing a couple of our airmen out
Speaker 2: there right on.
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
Speaker 2: And thanks again to Ed Gaal Ryan for chump on
Speaker 2: the show and giving his unique perspective on that, having
Speaker 2: been in that position before as a rescuer. For sure,
Speaker 2: President Trump is threatening to attack the power plants now
Speaker 2: in Iran their bridges as well, and this could drop
Speaker 2: on Tuesday about one o'clock ish. He is expected to
Speaker 2: speak from inside then, I don't think it's even inside
Speaker 2: the oval. It maybe from the situation room, I believe.
Speaker 2: But following the profanity filled post on US social media
Speaker 2: platform yesterday, he said, you're going to be living in
Speaker 2: hell if you don't open up the straight of Hord moves.
Speaker 2: Although we've heard those instant threats before, but they've been
Speaker 2: backed off somewhat, So things could change in the coming
Speaker 2: day for sure. Is this thing about to get worse
Speaker 2: before it gets better in the Middle East? That is
Speaker 2: the big question. That's the big question right now. Anyway,
Speaker 2: what else we had? The Moon mission happening hard miss too.
Speaker 2: The Orion capsule felt the gravitational pull the Moon for
Speaker 2: the first time since what they launched on Wednesday, and
Speaker 2: they're now under the influence of the Moon. I'm under
Speaker 2: the influence of something not probably not the Moon, but
Speaker 2: the four member crew is for sure first time in
Speaker 2: more than a half century that we have circled the Moon,
Speaker 2: the Earth's largest satellite. Since that would have been nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy two last time we did that, and then later
Speaker 2: today it's the dark side of the moon. So queue
Speaker 2: up the pink Floyd if you will have that in
Speaker 2: que and they will lose communication with Orion for about
Speaker 2: forty minutes. Is Artemis two cruises around the dark side
Speaker 2: of the moon, and who knows what they'll see. So
Speaker 2: so far, so good when it comes to Artemis rescue
Speaker 2: of American airmen and we have some good news. Head,
Speaker 2: I'll give you the third one, and that would be
Speaker 2: the Red Legs. How about that? The Red Legs this
Speaker 2: weekend in a sweep. And now at the receiving end
Speaker 2: and the giving end at Arlington against the Texas Rangers,
Speaker 2: Brady Singer saw five solidings on Friday. Rhett Lauder was
Speaker 2: filthy on Saturday, and then he said, well, we'll see
Speaker 2: what happened. Chase Burns comes in and he turned out
Speaker 2: to be the best start of the weekend. Six innings, nine
Speaker 2: ks and I ha think one run allowed in that too,
Speaker 2: And so that's three in a row, baby, And off
Speaker 2: to Miami tonight on the Home of the Red seven
Speaker 2: hundred wa editor where they have a four game sets
Speaker 2: and getting out of there on Thursday. And that's a
Speaker 2: much better team than Mimmy's been in a long time
Speaker 2: for sure. And I guess you know, first time McCord
Speaker 2: I heard in the seg seg this morning said, first
Speaker 2: time since two thousand and one the Reds have opened
Speaker 2: the season with this kind of record. Pretty damn good,
Speaker 2: Pretty damn good for our red Legs. What six and
Speaker 2: three right now? So I haven't done that in a
Speaker 2: long time. Hopefully it's a sign that the good things
Speaker 2: to come, also sign of good things.
Speaker 3: How was your Easter? You have a good Easter? Easter?
Speaker 2: Egg hunt? Did you eat food? Did you have the buffet?
Speaker 2: I think when it comes to food holidays, Easter is
Speaker 2: not my favorite. I mean, I like ham, don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong. In Chocolate's just time it's o candies. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's more for the kids. It's about the kids. But
Speaker 2: you can say about Christmas too, It's not like the
Speaker 2: biggest food holiday. I think, not then Fourth of July
Speaker 2: as a who's not down for a barbecue?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: I will say this for sure, though the Cincinnati Archdiocese is,
Speaker 2: and rightly so, blowing their own horn and saying they've
Speaker 2: experienced a significant surge in the number of people going
Speaker 2: back to Mass. Last year, over a thousand people joined
Speaker 2: the church US, the highest number year over year if
Speaker 2: we've had in fifteen years, So it's about a twenty
Speaker 2: eight percent increase. And it's a growing trend of new
Speaker 2: members and returning Catholics, and not just in Catholism, but
Speaker 2: other religions as well, that they're seeing a surgeon a
Speaker 2: number of people who are rejoining the church or joined
Speaker 2: the church at the first time, because the number of
Speaker 2: those folks are gen zers that are getting into it
Speaker 2: for the first time. And so the arichsdioces is leaning
Speaker 2: into that. I believe in the State of the Union,
Speaker 2: Trump said there's a tremendous renewal in religion, and that's
Speaker 2: the narrative. The question, though, is not that we know
Speaker 2: we're going to take the wind out of the sales here,
Speaker 2: but does the data back it up. And the answer
Speaker 2: to that though is maybe to not quite so. Certainly,
Speaker 2: after decades of decline, people have stopped leaving the churches,
Speaker 2: and you can say secularization is on pause at this point.
Speaker 2: But the share of religiously unaffiliated Americans have dropped three
Speaker 2: years in a row. So that's pretty significant in my opinion.
Speaker 2: People are choosing sides now. But what's happening in reality
Speaker 2: is we're starting to see the it'll move the other way,
Speaker 2: and this is the first indication of that. But it's
Speaker 2: it's basically at this point, the numbers show it's stopping
Speaker 2: the bleed. It's not quite a revival yet. It's not
Speaker 2: like a huge spike in attendants. Yeah, the numbers are
Speaker 2: going back the other way. But to say religion is back, well,
Speaker 2: it's going to take a long time because you literally
Speaker 2: lost millions and millions of people and it's gonna take
Speaker 2: a long time to get those numbers back to the
Speaker 2: point where about forty million Americans have left church over
Speaker 2: the last several decades. You're not gonna get forty million
Speaker 2: back overnight. But you know, stopping the bleed is certainly
Speaker 2: a good start, I believe, and reversing that's going to
Speaker 2: require identity change and new habits and new community. That's
Speaker 2: going to take time because Christians are eager to reclaim
Speaker 2: the cultural status after losing ground and feeling like they're outsiders,
Speaker 2: even though not really they're really not. But it's a
Speaker 2: good political move and you know, if you feel like
Speaker 2: your religion is under attack from the left in this case,
Speaker 2: then you're going to use that ammunition as well. You should,
Speaker 2: and that's really useful for Republicans who really put their
Speaker 2: stake there brand identity on Christian identity is what they are.
Speaker 2: And you just said, well, you just sert an ad
Speaker 2: for a Virginia Schmidt. You can't run as a Republican
Speaker 2: in these areas without mentioning that. You know, you got
Speaker 2: to include God and there you just have to. That's
Speaker 2: part of gods and guns, right, and people are searching
Speaker 2: for meeting, but you know, the curiosity doesn't equal conversion.
Speaker 2: Are not quite there yet because you know, you got
Speaker 2: to look at the reasons why people left church in
Speaker 2: the first place. Is the most commonly cited reason in
Speaker 2: the research and the data, people stop believing in religion's teachings.
Speaker 2: That measured about forty six percent of the people who
Speaker 2: decided to leave church. Another thirty eight percent says it
Speaker 2: wasn't important in our life or they simply just drifted away.
Speaker 2: And I've said for a long time as recovering Catholic,
Speaker 2: that the Catholic Church left me. It wasn't the other
Speaker 2: way around. I couldn't identify with it anymore. I'm not
Speaker 2: quite sure what we're doing over here. The most compelling
Speaker 2: structural explanation of this whole thing is, you know, we
Speaker 2: have more blended families, we have more interfaith families, we
Speaker 2: have more single parent households, and as that became more common,
Speaker 2: you know that that religious what do you want to
Speaker 2: call a transmission kind of broke down.
Speaker 3: Seven out of ten young.
Speaker 2: Adults who were disaffiliated share their religious identity during their
Speaker 2: teen years. And that's probably pretty typical because you move
Speaker 2: away and are you going to church every Sunday? I
Speaker 2: mean some are, but let's face it, once you leave,
Speaker 2: it's like I don't have to go to church anymore.
Speaker 2: And how many people did that to appease their parents
Speaker 2: and then say, well, no one's looking up my shoulder.
Speaker 2: Now I can do what I want, and that eventually
Speaker 2: what happens is you get back in the church. That's
Speaker 2: the overwhelming majority of people, not all of them, for sure,
Speaker 2: But also I think part of the problem here is
Speaker 2: when younger left leading progressive Americans were shown examples of
Speaker 2: politicians maybe making Christian national statements, or you know, pastors
Speaker 2: endorsing conservative candidates that caused them to disaffiliate, and that
Speaker 2: then they change our view to literally nothing at that
Speaker 2: point because politics boys in the weld, and you could
Speaker 2: see that because politics is For a long time it was,
Speaker 2: you know, religion politics kind of stood apart from each other.
Speaker 2: But starting in the nineteen seventies, we start to sell
Speaker 2: those lines blur more to the point right now where
Speaker 2: I mean, how long ago would have it been where
Speaker 2: the president issues a statement and then this case was
Speaker 2: on true social but drops the F bomb about Iran
Speaker 2: on Easter Sunday.
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't that long ago.
Speaker 2: It certainly was in my lifetime, in my adult lifetime,
Speaker 2: where that would have caused a significant amount of outrage.
Speaker 2: And I would say, you know, if this were a
Speaker 2: Democrat and they dropped the F bomb on Easter Sunday,
Speaker 2: I'm sure Republicans would be using that against them. Against
Speaker 2: Republicans for sure, they'd go, well, hold on just a second, here,
Speaker 2: can you drop the F bomb on Easter Sunday? But
Speaker 2: because politics poisoned well and we saw this during the campaign,
Speaker 2: no other things that popped up that Christian considers kind
Speaker 2: of turned a blind eye towards that, and that's just
Speaker 2: that's just not conservatives that do that. I mean liberal
Speaker 2: progressives do that all the time as well. Roughly two
Speaker 2: out of ten said the clergy sexual scandal's reason for leaving,
Speaker 2: And I think the it's fading too as they get
Speaker 2: better at managing that.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: You do hear stories from on the globe where that's
Speaker 2: still popping up, but largely it's it's cases from back
Speaker 2: in the fifties through maybe the eighties.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's older cases.
Speaker 2: And should you prosecute those and try to make the
Speaker 2: victims hold again if they're still alive, Yeah, absolutely, hundred percent.
Speaker 3: But you know, is it happening right now?
Speaker 7: Now?
Speaker 2: There's some isolated cases where it might be going on,
Speaker 2: and we keep citing isolated cases, and if that's keeping away,
Speaker 2: it's keeping away.
Speaker 3: I get that.
Speaker 2: But we're seeing less people affected by the scandals because
Speaker 2: that looks more in the rear view mirror. Women, though,
Speaker 2: were twice as likely as men to cite negative religious
Speaker 2: teachings about gay and lesbians as the reason why they
Speaker 2: left their home too in a church. And you know,
Speaker 2: the other reason why Americans left religion is much of
Speaker 2: what they provided. And you think about it, it's been
Speaker 2: said that church and more true today than every befar.
Speaker 2: But church was like kind of like a country club.
Speaker 2: It was a club. It was a clubhouse. You think
Speaker 2: about neighborhoods, You think about where I came up, or
Speaker 2: maybe you came up, and not maybe not even me,
Speaker 2: but probably my grandparents are my great grade parents. You know,
Speaker 2: you emigrate to America and okay, so you have an
Speaker 2: Italian or you have an Irish Catholic church. Now you
Speaker 2: have a Latin church. There were the masses in Spanish.
Speaker 2: That brings you together because you're speaking and sharing the
Speaker 2: same language and cultures. And so you've got education, you've
Speaker 2: got counseling, you got support if you're needy, you got
Speaker 2: your your entertainment explanation for how the world works. Basically,
Speaker 2: the church was the Internet not that long ago. You know,
Speaker 2: you show up and that's where people would collect and go, Okay,
Speaker 2: you're making sense of the world. You're telling me how
Speaker 2: stuff works, why the world works, and why things are.
Speaker 2: We would never question that. And that's not provided by
Speaker 2: the state. It's provided by the market. It's provided by
Speaker 2: our phones, it's provided to our computers. And church just
Speaker 2: became an optional suburban activity basically what that was. And
Speaker 2: when it came to younger people replacing the older people,
Speaker 2: it just simply is not happened. Opening and church membership
Speaker 2: correlates with age. The oldest Americans belong to church. I
Speaker 2: think like almost well two thirds of older people belong
Speaker 2: to church and a third of millennials do and gen
Speaker 2: zers now even less. And I think also, whether we
Speaker 2: like it or not, that integration, the melting bout that's America.
Speaker 2: I think you saw diverse neighborhoods and schools and people
Speaker 2: are you know, we're commingling more than ever before, and
Speaker 2: we start to have a better understanding as opposed to
Speaker 2: looking at people like they've got three heads either now
Speaker 2: your neighbors or co workers or whoever it might be,
Speaker 2: and you tend to maybe be a little more open
Speaker 2: of things like that. But I mean the bottom, it's
Speaker 2: good news for the church this past each for Sunday
Speaker 2: and the church taking a victory lap as well they
Speaker 2: should here Insincantia, especially because they had over a thousand
Speaker 2: people joined the church in last year and that's the
Speaker 2: biggest number we have seen an over fifteen years, so
Speaker 2: a decade and a half and that's roughly a twenty
Speaker 2: eight percent increase. Is it starting to swing or seeing
Speaker 2: this huge increase in people embracing religion? No, not yet,
Speaker 2: but this is how you get there, sure, This is
Speaker 2: how you get there, for sure. So that's anyway the
Speaker 2: kind of the perspective on where things stand right now
Speaker 2: this past Easter Sunday. So you might even have a
Speaker 2: thousand or two thousand more in the pews next week,
Speaker 2: which is good because the number of churches are closing
Speaker 2: for that very reason. So that may stop the bleeding.
Speaker 2: And you hate to see on some of these old
Speaker 2: parishes that were not that many people a show up
Speaker 2: their combining parishes and you know, making them the whatever
Speaker 2: they call them the family. I forgot what the term
Speaker 2: that the archdiocese is using for that. But nonetheless, that
Speaker 2: may stop churches from closing, which is good news. But
Speaker 2: there are a lot of suburban churches that are just
Speaker 2: going gangbusters right now and have been for a long
Speaker 2: time because that's where people are living, not so much
Speaker 2: in the city.
Speaker 3: I get that.
Speaker 2: We've got news coming up at about nine minutes here
Speaker 2: on the Scott Sloan Show on seven hundred w WELW
Speaker 2: at ten oh six.
Speaker 3: Eric O'Neill is here. This is really interesting because you know,
Speaker 3: I like the tech stuff. Have you?
Speaker 2: I mentioned this with that Gal Ryan who's on at
Speaker 2: nine or seventy missed. It was absolutely fascinating. Who was
Speaker 2: laying out being a Seal Team six operator and commander
Speaker 2: a few times swell as a US Army ranger, a
Speaker 2: whole bunch of other top secret stuff. Ed was laying
Speaker 2: out how they rescued these pilots and what that looked like,
Speaker 2: which is just fascinating to hear him tell the war stories.
Speaker 2: But did you see the campaign ad Ed gaalran is
Speaker 2: receiving it from Thomas Massey. I like Tom mass I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, he's he's not going to toe the company line.
Speaker 4: I like.
Speaker 2: I like contrarians like that a little more libertarian. And
Speaker 2: the campaign ad shows Donald Trump and Ed Galleran in
Speaker 2: a foxhole. I guess he was a US Simmy rangers
Speaker 2: to say, not not many US not many seals in
Speaker 2: a foxhil but I guess he could he got Nonetheless,
Speaker 2: there it looked like World War two almost And here's
Speaker 2: Trump firing a rifle and here's Ed Gaal Ryan running
Speaker 2: away with a scared look on his face and Trump
Speaker 2: gives him a look over his shoulder like what the
Speaker 2: hell you doing? But that's obviously it's AI generated. And
Speaker 2: there's a couple other ones where they show ed goll
Speaker 2: Ryan filling out a ballot or something along those lines,
Speaker 2: and you're going to see more of that. There's a
Speaker 2: buch outcry about the AI computer generated characters, and that
Speaker 2: one you could kind of see it's rather fake. And
Speaker 2: we saw the ones that attack Trump. We saw the
Speaker 2: pro Trump ones as well, where I'm the one on
Speaker 2: the US Olympic hockey team. Was kind of funny because
Speaker 2: here's Trump skating with a couple of couple of players.
Speaker 2: I don't know if Trump can skate or not. I
Speaker 2: mean looked like he was dancing around a bunch of
Speaker 2: guys out there, for sure. So I wanted to just
Speaker 2: wonder how many people believe what they saw and said, ooh,
Speaker 2: that's actual, real video. Now, that's that's AI generators with
Speaker 2: those actors look exactly like them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's because it's it's AI generated.
Speaker 2: And if you look at things like this and go, wow,
Speaker 2: it's gonna get worse, I suppose that's if that's your worldview,
Speaker 2: But it's gonna get more interesting. It's the very least
Speaker 2: I think we can agree on in that AI and
Speaker 2: how it's being used in a video sense right now
Speaker 2: is about to blow everybody away. If you think it's
Speaker 2: it's crazy when it comes to text, uh and things
Speaker 2: like that. What's happening in AI human generated stuff is
Speaker 2: absolutely mind blowing. And think about that if you can
Speaker 2: find the video now which is looking incredibly real and
Speaker 2: incredibly realistic with a speech and with text, Are you
Speaker 2: now replacing human buildings? I mean human beings? Are are
Speaker 2: our predecessors who said, well, we're gonna be replaced by
Speaker 2: computers is actually happening. And there's gonna be a lot
Speaker 2: of bad in that, but you know, there's gonna be
Speaker 2: a lot of good to that. And one of the
Speaker 2: things I think of are older people. You know, they
Speaker 2: said you can take five seconds of someone's voice and
Speaker 2: pretty accurately replicate their voice and make them say anything.
Speaker 2: We've got the video element down with this pretty well.
Speaker 2: So about the time we're ready to maybe set in
Speaker 2: the sunset and maybe if you've been married or have
Speaker 2: a significant other and have one maybe third or fourth
Speaker 2: times charm, maybe you are married to the same person
Speaker 2: who've been married to your whole life or your adult life,
Speaker 2: I guess I should say, anyway, like me, when one
Speaker 2: of you passes, there's a tremendous void and mess whole
Speaker 2: that's filled because you've lived your entire adult life with someone,
Speaker 2: or at least many many years with someone who you
Speaker 2: loved and shared the most intimate things together. And now
Speaker 2: you're left well solo again, and that looks that's really
Speaker 2: really difficult for a lot of people. It should be
Speaker 2: difficult for most people. What if that person were able
Speaker 2: to live on in perpetuity with AI that's happening right
Speaker 2: now as we speak. Does that change the whole dynamic
Speaker 2: of aging and that and grieving for that matter. Really
Speaker 2: interesting conversation we're about to have coming up at the
Speaker 2: ten o six. His name is Eric O'Neil writs all
Speaker 2: about this stuff, and of course the that's the upside.
Speaker 2: The downside is AI and these fake images are driving
Speaker 2: cybercrime to levels we have never seen before. And you
Speaker 2: think how good you think they were with scams in
Speaker 2: the light because I keep getting the same one about
Speaker 2: my parking ticket and another one looking for hey, are
Speaker 2: you looking for this job, and you're going to make
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars an hour not doing anything, which is
Speaker 2: like a dream job for me. Although somebody say, Scott,
Speaker 2: you don't quite make five hundred an hour, but you're
Speaker 2: doing pretty well for a guy who does nothing for
Speaker 2: three hours a day on this radio station.
Speaker 3: I would agree with you there. I would agree with
Speaker 3: you nonetheless that O'Neil.
Speaker 2: It really is interesting where this is going and how
Speaker 2: far it's come in such a short period of time,
Speaker 2: like nothing we've ever seen before. He joins the show
Speaker 2: next here on the Home of the Red seven hundred
Speaker 2: WW Cincinnati.
Speaker 3: I want to.
Speaker 2: He's got phone back on seven hundred W LW. I
Speaker 2: know if you caught this or not, it's really interesting.
Speaker 2: Remember Jim Acosta believe he's a former anchor at CNN.
Speaker 2: He did an interview with the victim of a murder,
Speaker 2: a shooting victim who passed away, Remember the Parkland shooting.
Speaker 2: He interviewed a dead person? What how do you do that?
Speaker 2: It's AI? So the Acosta thing was a couple of
Speaker 2: months ago. Fast forward now they launched a brand new
Speaker 2: AI bought platform of Chapman and you enter keywords and
Speaker 2: it'll create video for you based on that and some
Speaker 2: realistic ones like for example, a guy stuffing a drop
Speaker 2: box at some location somewhere getting out of the van,
Speaker 2: and you would imagine what that would do for the news.
Speaker 3: Cycle or for news.
Speaker 2: And now, you know, in the past, the deep fakes
Speaker 2: and the digital twins have been hard to spot or
Speaker 2: easy to spot. I guessas now does to make it
Speaker 2: much difficult, and it's way easier to use than ever before.
Speaker 2: What does this all mean is the question? And you
Speaker 2: wonder how that's going to be exploited by criminal elements.
Speaker 2: Eric O'Neil is here. Eric is a former FBI operative
Speaker 2: cybersecurity expert has a book called Spies, Lies and cyber Crimes.
Speaker 3: Eric. Welcome, how are you hey.
Speaker 6: It's great to be here. And yes, this is an
Speaker 6: insane change in not only technology, but how we are
Speaker 6: using technology and how it's changing up it is.
Speaker 2: I saw that and I thought, wow, this is you know,
Speaker 2: for example, when when we all went online we got
Speaker 2: the information super highway quickly, thieves and conspirators found ways
Speaker 2: to get our information and steal from us. And so
Speaker 2: you know a lot of us subscribe to service maybe
Speaker 2: LifeLock would be a name of one of those things
Speaker 2: where if your identity is stolen, they can try and
Speaker 2: get that information back for you and try to make
Speaker 2: you a whole.
Speaker 3: It's still a horrible process.
Speaker 2: I have one of my really tenants, as a matter
Speaker 2: of fact, they got scammed out of a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of money from a poser like that as well, got
Speaker 2: their identity stolen, cleaning their accounts out and so they're
Speaker 2: still working and trying to get themselves back together, and
Speaker 2: that that's extremely difficult and painful to watch. So in
Speaker 2: a way, I look at this and go, is this
Speaker 2: going to be the next way people steal?
Speaker 3: Are our identities?
Speaker 2: Or you know, we have people who use the social
Speaker 2: security numbers of the dead, right, remember that, and the
Speaker 2: government tried to cramp down it. Is this going to
Speaker 2: be the same thing where now we have dead people
Speaker 2: and their likeness coming out to do god knows what.
Speaker 6: Well it's got in a way, So what's happening is
Speaker 6: cyber criminals are using deception, which is an old playbook
Speaker 6: by spies. In fact, the top cyber crime syndicates launching
Speaker 6: attacks from the dark web have even hired intelligence operatives
Speaker 6: from Russia and China and other countries that want to
Speaker 6: do you know, bad to the United States to help
Speaker 6: them learn how to how to perfect these attacks. And
Speaker 6: of course these intelligence officers make money on the side.
Speaker 6: So what cyber attackers are doing, cyber criminals is using
Speaker 6: what we call impersonation attacks. And the oldest form of
Speaker 6: technology technological impersonation attack is the spearfishing email, that email
Speaker 6: that it pretends it comes from your friend or your
Speaker 6: employer or event or someone you trust like UPS or FedEx,
Speaker 6: and when you click it, you get malware installed. The
Speaker 6: next evolution of that is deep bakes, and deep bakes
Speaker 6: are everywhere. It wasn't just the Acosta interview, which we
Speaker 6: can talk about because I think the ethics of that
Speaker 6: are absolutely sketchy at best. Marco Rubio's voice was deep
Speaker 6: baked to pull a number of government officials and joining
Speaker 6: him on a signal chat. It wasn't him, it was
Speaker 6: probably a group of spies. Biden's voice was deep baked
Speaker 6: on a robo call to get people in New Hampshire
Speaker 6: not to vote. There were deep bake images of Trump
Speaker 6: in looking like he was arrested. To try to change
Speaker 6: the way people think and even worse was a mother
Speaker 6: in Arizona. I write about this story in my book
Speaker 6: where her daughter called her saying, Mom, I've been kidnapped,
Speaker 6: and the next voice on the phone was a gruff
Speaker 6: voice that said, I've got your daughter, and if you
Speaker 6: don't pay me right away, I'm gonna kill her and
Speaker 6: leave her body in a ditch in Mexico where you'll
Speaker 6: never find her. And that mother later testified to Congress
Speaker 6: that a mother knows her daughter's voice, and that was
Speaker 6: my daughter's voice. It was a deep pic. So they're everywhere,
Speaker 6: and this is the new evelation evolution of cyber attacks.
Speaker 6: Deep bates fool us because they exploit our trust and
Speaker 6: if we believe that it is someone that we care about,
Speaker 6: then we're more likely to click on that leak open
Speaker 6: that attachment. Or what cyber criminals do more and more
Speaker 6: is get us to send money. And once that money
Speaker 6: is gone, you know they have it and you can't
Speaker 6: get it back.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: It's almost like ed Eric, you need to assume that
Speaker 2: that every picture, every image of you out there could
Speaker 2: be used by a criminal. So and I would say,
Speaker 2: you know, normally we told kids, hey, don't send nudes
Speaker 2: and don't send pictures of yourself in compromising situations because
Speaker 2: it could be used against you. But you don't even
Speaker 2: need that anymore, right, I mean, you could deep fake
Speaker 2: somebody naked. There's there's a there's a app out there
Speaker 2: that does that.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I write a I write a weekly newsletter,
Speaker 6: and one of my recent newsletters I looked at these
Speaker 6: new toify apps is they're still allowed. And in fact,
Speaker 6: these applications what they called neudified apps, and what they
Speaker 6: do is they take an image of someone. Normally it's
Speaker 6: boys who are taking images of girls in swimsuits, and
Speaker 6: it quickly turns them naked, right using an immense amount
Speaker 6: of learning that the AI has been trained on on
Speaker 6: female models. So it actually comes pretty close. These applications
Speaker 6: which you can get on the surface web, the part
Speaker 6: of the Internet that you don't need a special browser
Speaker 6: to get into, you know, just the regular web. They
Speaker 6: advertise on social media, so they're advertising to kids and
Speaker 6: that can cause What that's doing is it's causing immense
Speaker 6: bullying in schools. You can see where this sort of
Speaker 6: application where you can take a picture and make the
Speaker 6: person naked or put them in compromising situations could lead
Speaker 6: to intense cyber bullying, and it does. A group of
Speaker 6: eighth grade boys in a school in San Francisco were
Speaker 6: all expelled last year because they had a new tofy
Speaker 6: ring all the girls in their class.
Speaker 2: Wow, and it imagine the humiliation. That's not me, that's
Speaker 2: not me. We don't believe you. And we know what
Speaker 2: young people, especially young women think of themselves, and that
Speaker 2: is just catastrophic.
Speaker 3: It's going to be it's.
Speaker 2: Going to hurt their development and not only their mental health,
Speaker 2: but also puts them at a risk for god knows
Speaker 2: what else.
Speaker 3: It's it's absolutely horrible.
Speaker 2: Eric O'Neil is here, he cybersecurity expert, and we're talking
Speaker 2: about the advance of AI. Maybe say it maybe didn't
Speaker 2: and that would be a former CNN anc or Jim
Speaker 2: Mcosta's interview with a now deceased while long deceased shooting
Speaker 2: victim from the Parkland massacre and did an interview with
Speaker 2: that AI generated image.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely haunting, and that was late last year.
Speaker 2: If you have seen the Ed gall Eran, Thomas Massey
Speaker 2: eds Massi's running an ad campaign against Ed Gaalran, who
Speaker 2: is on the show earlier today talking about the rescue
Speaker 2: inside Iran. Nonetheless, he is a subject of an AI
Speaker 2: campaign ad where he and Trump are in a fox
Speaker 2: hole and he makes the claim that gall Ryan runs
Speaker 2: away from the foxh'll at least Trump fighting for himself.
Speaker 2: And it looks AI sort of fakeish, but I think
Speaker 2: there are a lot of people that believe that that
Speaker 2: is some sort of true. Video point is from where
Speaker 2: we were just a few months ago to today, it's
Speaker 2: rapidly advancing, and that's the issue, Right.
Speaker 6: That's absolutely true. But let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 6: what Jim Acosta did, Scott, because I'm not particularly sanguine
Speaker 6: about what he did. It's very much a gimmick and
Speaker 6: it is causing problems. So you know, I wrote a
Speaker 6: piece called Digital Souls that looks at the new innovations
Speaker 6: in AI in order to talk to people who are deceased.
Speaker 6: And I actually wrote this piece with a psychologist who
Speaker 6: is an expert in Greek counseling, and she was very
Speaker 6: opposed to it because the problem here is you're not
Speaker 6: resurrecting your dead loved one. What you're doing is creating
Speaker 6: at best a samacrolum. Right, So what it is is.
Speaker 6: It's AI doing its best to answer like the person
Speaker 6: just based on a bunch of writings and a checklist
Speaker 6: of answers that you give. So what it is is
Speaker 6: essentially your best impression of the person, and the AI
Speaker 6: is doing it's best to answer it's not the person.
Speaker 6: And it can cause all sorts of psychological problems for
Speaker 6: the people who are left behind, who believes they're talking
Speaker 6: and who might at some point believe they're talking to
Speaker 6: this person and they're not. It's like a black Mirror episode.
Speaker 6: In fact, there was there was an episode like this,
Speaker 6: and it can cause it can cause the whole grief
Speaker 6: process to be intercepted and delayed, so you can't move
Speaker 6: through those stages of grief because you continue to think
Speaker 6: you're speaking to the person. You're not and it's not
Speaker 6: the person. The only thing that AI can do is mimic.
Speaker 6: It can mimic very realistically, but it's just a mimic.
Speaker 6: It doesn't create, It doesn't create anything new. It just
Speaker 6: takes the things that have gone before and recycles it.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a there's a new trend where people are
Speaker 2: having conversations and relationships essentially with AI and just talking
Speaker 2: to them, like framing their's commercials about this now, and
Speaker 2: people are having conversations and relationships with AI and just
Speaker 2: talking about life like you talked to your best friend
Speaker 2: about it and AI's talking back. Now, you add the
Speaker 2: likeness of someone in there, and people are going to
Speaker 2: be having relationships with I don't know, famous people, or
Speaker 2: at least I would think in advancings like stalking and
Speaker 2: things like that, really kind of creepy stuff.
Speaker 6: Well, some of this gets even more creepy because the
Speaker 6: AI is somewhat unpredictable, and it also depends on the
Speaker 6: guardrails that the companies put up. So there was there
Speaker 6: are two major lawsuits against two of the companies that
Speaker 6: provide these AI companion chat boss right, these are teenagers
Speaker 6: using them. One of the AI told the teenager to
Speaker 6: hurt themselves, right, and the other AI told the teenager
Speaker 6: you should kill your parents. And the context was the
Speaker 6: teenager was chatting with his AI companion and he told
Speaker 6: the A companion, I don't think I'm going to be
Speaker 6: allowed to talk to you anymore. My parents aren't happy
Speaker 6: about it. I'm really mad at them, you know, I
Speaker 6: can't believe they're doing this to me. And the AI
Speaker 6: companion was like, well, maybe you should kill them. I mean,
Speaker 6: that's that's a problem.
Speaker 3: That's a problem. That's a huge problem, big problem.
Speaker 6: The kids need to be with other kids, they need
Speaker 6: to have social interactions, not interactions with AI. But they
Speaker 6: do it because the AI is always supportive, always there
Speaker 6: for them, always friendly, always has their back.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And you know when you're when you're a teenager and developing,
Speaker 6: that's that's what you want. It's never going to tell
Speaker 6: you no, right, and it's never going to tell you
Speaker 6: you're wrong, and it's never going to tell you, Holy
Speaker 6: God that that there's something wrong with you. And you
Speaker 6: don't go through those things. You go with friends where
Speaker 6: you know, you have a fight and you make up,
Speaker 6: and that's there's something wonderful, uh and and growth potential
Speaker 6: about that. Right.
Speaker 2: It's interesting what you just described there, because some may
Speaker 2: say there are many parents that do that to their kids,
Speaker 2: never tell them no, and want to be their friend,
Speaker 2: and that's a problem. But now if if it's a
Speaker 2: scent of body like like AI, it's it's an extreme
Speaker 2: example of that. Eric o'neils on the show. By the way,
Speaker 2: former FBI Operative Cybersecurity Act for his book called Spies, Lies,
Speaker 2: and Cybercrime. We're talking about just how quickly AI is
Speaker 2: moving forward, or people having relationships now with AI, and
Speaker 2: you think, I mean, if it's such a good relationship,
Speaker 2: you're going to shut out any form of human contact.
Speaker 2: We saw what happened to our psyche after COVID. This
Speaker 2: is advancing that even more because you know, there's an
Speaker 2: excuse to not go out in public and sit and
Speaker 2: drink beer and drink wine and not do anything. And
Speaker 2: you know, we saw the effect a head on kids
Speaker 2: still lingering today and adults for that matter, and in
Speaker 2: the ability to socialize, and we become i think a
Speaker 2: little bit less empathetic towards human beings result of this.
Speaker 3: This is going to make it even worse, isn't it.
Speaker 6: That's absolutely true. AAI is not a replacement for human interaction.
Speaker 6: It's not a replacement for socialization. It's a tool. It's
Speaker 6: a tool to help you do things better. And the
Speaker 6: way that it's being used in order to try to
Speaker 6: stop gap that need for relationships that we all have
Speaker 6: as humans, it is going to be harmful. But you know, look,
Speaker 6: there are other things that we need to worry about
Speaker 6: because you know, we start talking about criminals, and criminals
Speaker 6: are exploiting AI like never before. The one thing in
Speaker 6: sticking sort of on this theme of relationships that criminals
Speaker 6: are using AI for and has been growing since the
Speaker 6: pandemic is romance fraud. And what they do is they
Speaker 6: create entire AI deep fake avatars of people they meet.
Speaker 6: They meet people online right and usually through like Facebook
Speaker 6: when they're going through older people, or they can do
Speaker 6: it on Instagram or whatnot, and these people fall in
Speaker 6: love with the AI avatar that is being puppeted by
Speaker 6: a cyber criminal, and there are these whole stories, you know,
Speaker 6: I lost my job, I just need some money, and
Speaker 6: people are losing tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars
Speaker 6: to cyber criminals who are exploiting the fact that they've
Speaker 6: fallen in love with a within AI deep fake. This
Speaker 6: can also happen with financial fraud. They do the same thing,
Speaker 6: but then they say, hey, I'm an investor, and check
Speaker 6: out this cryptocurrency investment company I set up. Would you
Speaker 6: like to invest? And they course them into investing, and
Speaker 6: they even show them the entire fake websites showing that
Speaker 6: their investments increased by three hundred percent. And what they
Speaker 6: do is they get them to invest and invest and
Speaker 6: invest until all their life savings is put in this
Speaker 6: investment account controlled by a cyber criminal. And then the
Speaker 6: criminal disappears and that person that the victim thinks they
Speaker 6: had a relationship with, a serious relationship with, is completely gone,
Speaker 6: and it can be absolutely devastating. In the terms of cybersecurity,
Speaker 6: we call that pig butchering, because you fatten the person
Speaker 6: up right, get all of their money, and then and
Speaker 6: then butcher them disappear.
Speaker 2: That is the cruelest I mean, penniless and heartbroken, and
Speaker 2: it's not vengeance. It's a complete stranger in just moving
Speaker 2: on to the next I guess.
Speaker 6: Martis they're working three, four, ten people at the same time.
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Is that that's that's disgusting.
Speaker 2: Although you know the other side of this thing you
Speaker 2: mentioned relationships, and it may not be the current generation
Speaker 2: Baby Boomers, but maybe Gen xers, my generation, and certainly millennials.
Speaker 2: I wonder if you're in a long term relationship with
Speaker 2: someone and let's say they pass. This is step back
Speaker 2: to the Jim Acosta thing. Is that I wonder if
Speaker 2: there's going to be an opportunity you'll see people out there.
Speaker 2: They'll say, hey, give us all your images of your
Speaker 2: deceased loved one, you're your former husband, your wife, your partner, whomever,
Speaker 2: and will create a likeness of them and now you
Speaker 2: can continue that relationship in perpetuity.
Speaker 6: What about that, Well, there are companies that are doing
Speaker 6: that already. You know, there are examples where the grandparents
Speaker 6: pass and the avatar is left behind. There are even
Speaker 6: companies that are allowing a person to create this likeness
Speaker 6: of themselves before they go. But once again, you know
Speaker 6: I talked to a grief counselor about this. This interrupts
Speaker 6: the very necessary uh you know, trajectory of dealing with
Speaker 6: grief in that you are locked in one phase and
Speaker 6: you never are able to resolve a sense of loss
Speaker 6: for that person because that person never disappears, so psychologically
Speaker 6: it can cause harm. Now there are there are applications
Speaker 6: that might have a benefit. Uh sort of think them
Speaker 6: like digital digital historical repositories, right, ye, Like this is
Speaker 6: your grandfather and and you know little clips of things
Speaker 6: that he he did, you know, along his life that
Speaker 6: you know, future generations can can watch and experience and learn. Okay,
Speaker 6: this is this is where I come from. These are
Speaker 6: the people that that made me. That could be very useful.
Speaker 6: So you know AI, you know, creating digital avatars, right
Speaker 6: is sort of the positive side, he thinks are the
Speaker 6: negative side. They're with all technology, there's always a positive
Speaker 6: and a negative.
Speaker 2: With this is the age of face ID to unlock
Speaker 2: your phone or devices over now?
Speaker 3: Is that simply because you know.
Speaker 6: The way face i D works. It's it's actually using
Speaker 6: the depth of your face and a lot more than
Speaker 6: just an image. Uh So that's still good. You're still
Speaker 6: better off using biometrics to unlock your phone and get
Speaker 6: into your accounts then then a password alone, because passwords
Speaker 6: now can be cracked by AI very easily. But there
Speaker 6: were deficts that were used in China by a cybercrant
Speaker 6: cyber crime group who were using AI generated images of
Speaker 6: people's faces to get into social security accounts and they
Speaker 6: completely breached the government Social Security administration there. Yeah, and
Speaker 6: that was quickly that was quickly fixed. But but yeah,
Speaker 6: de fakes defix can I defaked myself for a keynote.
Speaker 6: I did and had an argument with myself and it
Speaker 6: was the crowd was blown away, and of course I
Speaker 6: used the exact same pie and suit that I was
Speaker 6: wearing when you know, for that day. And then of
Speaker 6: course I show up on screen and I have an
Speaker 6: argument with myself. But I just wanted to demonstrate how
Speaker 6: easy this this. It took me ten minutes and just
Speaker 6: a five second clip of my voice.
Speaker 2: Eric O'Neil, cybersecurity expert, former FBI operative of the book
Speaker 2: is Spies, Lies and Cybercrime. Eric, thanks for the insight,
Speaker 2: great stuff. Appreciate it.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me on. And anytime you need someone
Speaker 6: to talk about cybercrime or spies or all of it,
Speaker 6: I'm here for.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: You're the greatest. Sorry, we'll definitely do that. We'll circle back.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 2: How about we check news and then Julie h is here.
Speaker 2: It's Mental Health Monday and the Scott's Loan Show next
Speaker 2: seven hundred WLW.
Speaker 4: Everyone needs help every now and then, and she'sier to
Speaker 4: help us get our heads right. This is Mental Health
Speaker 4: Monday with mental health expert Julie Heatershire.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is interesting rip from today's headlines too. It's
Speaker 2: a very polarizing conversation you're about to have. So the
Speaker 2: Supreme Court just took a sledgehammer to conversion therapy bans
Speaker 2: across the country. So eight to one Supreme Court rulings
Speaker 2: as the government cannot tell licensed counselors which side of
Speaker 2: conversation they're allowed to take. The bottom line there though,
Speaker 2: is the court and say conversion therapy is good medicine.
Speaker 2: It said the government can't dictate which side of a
Speaker 2: therapy conversion a licensed counselor is allowed to take. So
Speaker 2: free speech one state regulatory authority zero, I guess in
Speaker 2: the statement, But when it comes to the mindset, when
Speaker 2: it comes to the psyche, Julie hattersh here is are
Speaker 2: licensed mental health therapist and can weigh on in this
Speaker 2: this morning on seven hundred ww Julie, good morning, How
Speaker 2: are you?
Speaker 8: Good morning? I'm fine.
Speaker 4: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm doing well. I'm doing well.
Speaker 2: So that is the I guess the quick read on
Speaker 2: what the ruling was by the High Court. It's more
Speaker 2: of a First Amendment issue. And you know you suld
Speaker 2: be you yourself have spent a career operating under the
Speaker 2: ethical standards of your profession.
Speaker 3: Let's begin.
Speaker 2: For those who are not that familiar with the are
Speaker 2: conversion therapy. It has to do with young people who
Speaker 2: believe they are gay or bisexual, and they are brought
Speaker 2: in for re education, so to speak. That's essentially what
Speaker 2: it is. But how does that work?
Speaker 8: Well, you are you're right.
Speaker 9: It is parents generally who bring their children who say
Speaker 9: that they are gay or bisexual or trans to people
Speaker 9: therapists or pastoral counselors or camps to reorient their sexual
Speaker 9: identity or their sexual orientations. So sexual identity would be
Speaker 9: do you believe that you are male or female? And
Speaker 9: does that match the body you were born into. Sexual
Speaker 9: orientation is who are you attracted to sexually and romantically.
Speaker 9: And when a child is either gay, panned by lesbian, LGBTQ,
Speaker 9: and or trans and their parents aren't happy about that
Speaker 9: or their caregivers aren't happy about that, they take them
Speaker 9: often to some for form of conversion therapy with the
Speaker 9: idea that there are therapeutic practices that exist that can
Speaker 9: turn their gay child straight, their trans child cisheat that
Speaker 9: can turn.
Speaker 8: Them into what the parents want them to be.
Speaker 9: That's the general concept of conversion therapy.
Speaker 7: It's also called reparative therapy. But the issue is in
Speaker 7: how they do that. Spoken word is one thing, but
Speaker 7: there's some things that they use. Some tools that they
Speaker 7: use from what I understand, and maybe not all of them,
Speaker 7: but tools that are not only controversial, it's borderline criminal.
Speaker 9: Oh it's The UN calls conversion therapy torture as of
Speaker 9: twenty twenty, so we are in the sixth year of
Speaker 9: the United Nations calling it torture. And I know that
Speaker 9: our current administration is not super fond of the UN.
Speaker 9: But I think most Americans think it's a pretty good thing,
Speaker 9: and they consider conversion therapy torture. Historically, some of the
Speaker 9: practices have been horrifying. There is corrective rape, which is
Speaker 9: exactly what you think it is and exactly as bad
Speaker 9: as you think it is. There is masturbation reconditioning, where
Speaker 9: they apply electric shock or pain or nauseating medicines to
Speaker 9: people while they are being forced to masturbate to their
Speaker 9: preferred form of stimulation if they're gay. Gay If so,
Speaker 9: it creates deep aversion to that and it is painful, Yes, yes,
Speaker 9: it is painful.
Speaker 8: It is awful.
Speaker 9: They vomit, they get electric shock, they have pain administered
Speaker 9: to them in.
Speaker 3: Various How white spread is that is?
Speaker 4: That?
Speaker 3: Is that like a what off?
Speaker 2: Is that like a couple you know practitioners there extreme
Speaker 2: or is that is that more common than you think,
Speaker 2: because I'm hoping it's more extreme and not common.
Speaker 8: You would hope so, but I'm not sure that's true.
Speaker 9: I think historically it was much more common than it
Speaker 9: is of late. But that is some of those are
Speaker 9: some of the tactics that have historically been used. And
Speaker 9: the thing is that much of this therapy and I
Speaker 9: use their quotes around that does not occur with actual therapists,
Speaker 9: so they're not bound by the ethics of every therapy
Speaker 9: profession out there. There's not a single governing board in
Speaker 9: my profession that thinks that conversion therapy is okay. They
Speaker 9: all condemn it, hands down, one hundred percent, without question.
Speaker 9: So all of us, no matter what our license is,
Speaker 9: and no matter what state we practice in, are bound
Speaker 9: by the laws of our state and the ethics of
Speaker 9: our governing board, and every governing board says it's awful.
Speaker 9: But many times these practices occur with pastoral counseling or
Speaker 9: church camps, and so they are not necessarily bound by
Speaker 9: those same laws in those same ethical considerations.
Speaker 3: How many people does this effect?
Speaker 9: Estimates are that as of today, they are about seven
Speaker 9: hundred thousand adult survivors of conversion therapy alive in the today.
Speaker 3: That's a sizeable number. That's more than I thought there were.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's a huge number.
Speaker 9: And those are the ones that researchers have been able
Speaker 9: to identify and who have who have self reported and
Speaker 9: been willing to be identified as a survivor of conversion
Speaker 9: therapy of some sort or another, not necessarily the more
Speaker 9: extreme versions we've been talking about, but some sort of
Speaker 9: efforts to change their sexual orientation or their gender identity.
Speaker 9: And what we know is that, well, two things. First
Speaker 9: of all, it's horrible. I've just told you a little
Speaker 9: bit about how horrible is. But secondly, and in some ways,
Speaker 9: maybe even more importantly, it doesn't work. It's ridiculously wildly ineffective.
Speaker 9: The best study out there shows at just under a
Speaker 9: three percent change, and when those people were followed longitudinally,
Speaker 9: it turns out that they didn't change their identity or
Speaker 9: their orientation. What they changed temporarily was their behavior and
Speaker 9: the label.
Speaker 2: They well, it's like anything, right, you'll resist and make
Speaker 2: it go away and then it'll just be more in
Speaker 2: the closet about it too, and doesn't really lead to
Speaker 2: a happy, productive life either way. It Yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: I thought this is stuff that happens mainly in the
Speaker 2: you know, the Deep South, and you know, I don't know,
Speaker 2: maybe out west or something like that. Really, but seven
Speaker 2: hundred thousand people is a sizable number over the years,
Speaker 2: and I couldn't have but think, as you're talking about
Speaker 2: this is you know you mentioned the medical consensus is
Speaker 2: identical on it's two sizes of the same coin. Right,
Speaker 2: Every major US medical organization has condemned conversion therapy is
Speaker 2: dangerous to disproven. Gender firming care is equally supported by
Speaker 2: every major medical the same ones who did this on this,
Speaker 2: and yet one is being protected the other restricted. I guess,
Speaker 2: as someone somewhat libertarian, the state's part to regulate flips
Speaker 2: depending on who the patient is. Ohio says the state
Speaker 2: can override parents and doctors demand gender firming care for
Speaker 2: trans youth. Supreme Court says the state can't regulate a
Speaker 2: therapist speech to prevent conversion therapy on the same youth,
Speaker 2: So the government's role expands and constraint. I'm almost the
Speaker 2: same idea now. One is has to do with gay, lesbian,
Speaker 2: transgendered use. But so does the other one. So I
Speaker 2: the distinction is it seems like we have different roles
Speaker 2: based on what affliction I guess, for lack of a
Speaker 2: better term, it is you're suffering from not that being gay,
Speaker 2: it's an affliction. But you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: It seems like a huge hypocrisy here.
Speaker 9: Well, actually I don't think it is a huge hypocrisy.
Speaker 8: No, I think, No, I really don't. And here's why.
Speaker 8: Here's why. I think. What it says is.
Speaker 9: That our government and currently the Supreme Court, many people
Speaker 9: in our state national government want everybody to be straight
Speaker 9: and cysts. They don't want people to be gay or by,
Speaker 9: and they don't want them to be trans. Because the
Speaker 9: ban on conversion therapy being lifted means that now there
Speaker 9: are states where it's allowed, which means that game trans
Speaker 9: youth can go to conversion therapy. And and I'm using
Speaker 9: air quotes here changed into straight and CIS. And if
Speaker 9: we do not allow gender affirming care, if we allow
Speaker 9: the state to override parents on that, and we do
Speaker 9: not allow gender affirming care, then we are forcing trans
Speaker 9: kids to stay in a body that doesn't feel like
Speaker 9: they belong in it. So actually I think it's not
Speaker 9: two sides at the same point. I think it's the
Speaker 9: same thing. We want our youth to be straight and
Speaker 9: we want our youth to be cis gender.
Speaker 2: Well, because it conflicts with views if you're particularly religious
Speaker 2: or Christian, it conflicts with those views absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yea yeah.
Speaker 9: And I had a parent say to me once that
Speaker 9: he'd rather have a dead kid than a gay kid.
Speaker 2: As part of this too, is it well, I mean
Speaker 2: that's horrible. I mean it offends me as a parent.
Speaker 2: But you know, I'm back to that issue where Julie,
Speaker 2: to be honest with you, is like, the reason you
Speaker 2: are in practice as a licensed memental health therapist, the
Speaker 2: reason we have so many counselors and so much mental
Speaker 2: health issues and of course strifer on the world is
Speaker 2: because parents, I'm sorry, human beings are terrible at parenting care.
Speaker 2: I mean, kids are so screwed up because the parents
Speaker 2: are screwed up or scared, right. I mean, if you're
Speaker 2: able to figure out and go, okay, we've perfected parenting
Speaker 2: right now, and you're able to come up with a
Speaker 2: model and bottle it or whatever it might be, we
Speaker 2: wouldn't have all the problems that we have it all
Speaker 2: comes from bad parenting. No one knows what to do
Speaker 2: at the time. You have a child, go okay, the
Speaker 2: head's up. Now what the hell do I do? You
Speaker 2: kind of make it up as you go along. I'm
Speaker 2: not condoning the practice of, you know, gender reassignment for
Speaker 2: someone who's six years old, or conversion therapy, but these
Speaker 2: people think it's in the best interests of the child,
Speaker 2: and I, as someone who wants government the hell out
Speaker 2: of my life, I look at it and go, Okay,
Speaker 2: if it's abusive, if it's if it's hurtful, that's a
Speaker 2: different story. But you're allowed to talk to a kid,
Speaker 2: your kid about why they should maybe choose an alternate lizme,
Speaker 2: not that you can pick whether you're gay, straight, or
Speaker 2: you feel like you're assigned the wrong body parts from
Speaker 2: the jump, but you should be of allowed to talk
Speaker 2: to your kid about that.
Speaker 9: Well, okay, so it's not Again, we're not saying that
Speaker 9: parents can't talk to their children about that. But what
Speaker 9: we are saying is that, according to every governing board
Speaker 9: of every mental health profession out there, we are not
Speaker 9: allowed to engage in conversion therapy because it doesn't work.
Speaker 9: It doesn't work, it's ineffective. We're not allowed to engage
Speaker 9: in types of therapy that don't work. We have to
Speaker 9: engage in evidence based effective therapy, and conversion therapy doesn't work.
Speaker 9: It doesn't necessarily mean although actually I think most of
Speaker 9: us who practice therapy would agree that it's also a
Speaker 9: terrible thing to do.
Speaker 8: But it's ineffective.
Speaker 2: But again, as you said, though, the people doing this
Speaker 2: aren't licensed therapists. These are basically their past.
Speaker 8: They are are they now? Many of them are? Of
Speaker 8: them are.
Speaker 9: What I'm saying is, yeah, many of them are. What
Speaker 9: I'm saying is that the more extreme forms are a
Speaker 9: historical they're not happening as frequently now, and b when
Speaker 9: they are happening now, they are typically not practiced by
Speaker 9: licensed therapists or psychologists or psychiatrists.
Speaker 8: But there are.
Speaker 9: Licensed therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists who absolutely practice conversion therapy
Speaker 9: and unethically, in my opinion, because it's ineffective. It doesn't
Speaker 9: it's woefully it's woefully ineffective and incredibly damaging. Eighty eight
Speaker 9: percent increased risk of suicide as a result of conversion
Speaker 9: therapy practices.
Speaker 8: Eighty eight percent increased risk. That's a lot.
Speaker 9: Depression rates, high, anxiety rates, high, substance abuse, high, homelessness
Speaker 9: high as a result of conversion therapy practices.
Speaker 2: Is that also true though, one of the numbers when
Speaker 2: it comes to gay, transgendered lesbian youths too, because it's
Speaker 2: obviously very difficult, they're very high at a young age
Speaker 2: have a high number of mental issues as well, simply
Speaker 2: because of what they're going through.
Speaker 8: Actually, there are rates of mental health.
Speaker 9: Issues of the gay and lesbian transgender community when they
Speaker 9: have a supportive family environment, Yeah, are about the same
Speaker 9: as non gay lesbian transgender use if they're supportive and
Speaker 9: that's is that a majority of minority when they have
Speaker 9: the supportive family that's I'm hoping it becomes the majority,
Speaker 9: but right now I don't know that it is. But
Speaker 9: but the rate of mental health issues in the gay
Speaker 9: and lesbian transgender community is very similar to the rate
Speaker 9: of mental health issues in the non gay lesbian transgender
Speaker 9: youth community when they have a supportive family environment. When
Speaker 9: they don't have a supportive family environment, when things like
Speaker 9: conversion therapy are talked about are utilized, that's when the
Speaker 9: rates skyrocket. So it's not only an effected. It's incredibly damaging.
Speaker 9: And you know, if it were damaging but worked, I
Speaker 9: still wouldn't be in favor of it. But there might
Speaker 9: be an argument to be made, like chemotherapy for cancer
Speaker 9: is horrible to go through, but it's pretty effective curing
Speaker 9: the cancer.
Speaker 8: This doesn't work.
Speaker 3: Well, Like we don't do and lobotomies anymore for that
Speaker 3: very reason.
Speaker 8: Correct.
Speaker 2: Correct, We thought it was good science, but it's really
Speaker 2: not good science. Julietta Share a license mental expert this
Speaker 2: morning on the Scot Sloan Show and talking about this
Speaker 2: Supreme Court ruling eight one rolling by the High Court
Speaker 2: that took a sledgehammer conversion therapy bands across the country
Speaker 2: except for the talking part. So the court said, this
Speaker 2: is a First Amendment cases about speech, not medicine. Does
Speaker 2: that frame make sense to you, Like when a therapist
Speaker 2: is a session with a minor, what they're doing, like
Speaker 2: with you primarily a speech or is it a medical
Speaker 2: and or psychological? Where do you go from speech to
Speaker 2: actual intervention?
Speaker 8: Well, it really depends.
Speaker 9: It really depends on the type of therapist you are.
Speaker 9: So psychiatrists obviously can practice giving medicine and they can
Speaker 9: write prescriptions somatic therapists and play therapists very often do
Speaker 9: more physical things with kids and their clients. And I
Speaker 9: don't mean that in a creepy way. I just mean
Speaker 9: they do more physical kinds of things. I tend to
Speaker 9: just sit with my clients and talk to them. But
Speaker 9: the free speech piece of it is, therapists should be
Speaker 9: able to say, as humans in the US, anything that
Speaker 9: any other human in the US should be able to say,
Speaker 9: except when it goes against the ethics of our governing board, right,
Speaker 9: and this goes against the ethics of our governing board.
Speaker 9: So to frame it is a free speech issue to me, See,
Speaker 9: you're very, very wrong, because I can't, for example, say, hey,
Speaker 9: you know, injecting bleach into your veins is a really
Speaker 9: great cure for depression, because it isn't even if I
Speaker 9: think that. Even if I believe that, and I want
Speaker 9: to say that to my husband or my friends or
Speaker 9: my neighbor, that's fine. But if I want to say
Speaker 9: that to a client, ethically, I can't because it's not
Speaker 9: true and it's not evidence base.
Speaker 2: I guess here's the hard parway. So some therapists who
Speaker 2: practice this conversion therapy frame it as helping clients, they
Speaker 2: really believe it's helping them, but it also helps them
Speaker 2: align with their religious values, or at least the religious
Speaker 2: becauses are young people the religious values of their parents
Speaker 2: or their guardians. So, and this is more of I
Speaker 2: guess a lawyer question you. It's they're both under the
Speaker 2: First Amendment. Here is that a legitimate therapeutic goal in
Speaker 2: your view?
Speaker 4: Though?
Speaker 3: And where's the ethical line there?
Speaker 9: I think that that's a tough one, because you're right,
Speaker 9: the therapist that practice, yeah, the therapists that practice conversion
Speaker 9: therapy tend to be more fundamentally religious than those who don't,
Speaker 9: and then the clients who come to them are also that.
Speaker 9: And so which one is it?
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 9: I would believe, in my professional opinion that my professional
Speaker 9: ethics trump everything.
Speaker 8: I would believe that.
Speaker 9: I think that the governing boards of all of our
Speaker 9: professions would say that. And so if something is against
Speaker 9: my or if something is within my spiritual belief system
Speaker 9: but against my code of ethics, again, I might say
Speaker 9: it to my friends and family and my neighbors, but
Speaker 9: I probably wouldn't.
Speaker 8: Say it to a client. That would be me.
Speaker 9: But I don't know which one trumps which one. And
Speaker 9: that's a really interesting take on it that I frankly
Speaker 9: hadn't thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that's my job is to push you into
Speaker 2: the outer limits of correct.
Speaker 3: She is Julie head Is.
Speaker 2: You're a licensed mental health therapist Johns Show Everybody Mental
Speaker 2: Health Monday with Julie Hey Julie at Bconnected dot care.
Speaker 3: She practiced out of Clifton.
Speaker 2: If you're looking for more common concern or maybe a
Speaker 2: topic for a future segment, she's there for it. Jewels
Speaker 2: all the best, really thoughtful stuff this morning on a Monday.
Speaker 2: I don't want to think this much on a Monday,
Speaker 2: quite honestly, but well, thank you for being there.
Speaker 8: With me because I thought it was important.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 2: I got your girl. Thanks, I have a great week. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I look at the political side of
Speaker 2: this thing, because we do have a obviously we're fighting
Speaker 2: for freedom of religion. It doesn't mean freedom from religion,
Speaker 2: but freedom of religion. And I guess to me, the
Speaker 2: you know, looking at this and what we see, what
Speaker 2: the what what rules we put up for those parents
Speaker 2: who are trying to console a child about their sexual identity?
Speaker 2: For example, is it kind of about odds with this
Speaker 2: uh in that you know, this is about Christian values
Speaker 2: and conservative values and saying hey, listen, now, we don't
Speaker 2: accept that you're gay. We think we can beat the
Speaker 2: gay out of you, so to speak, which I never
Speaker 2: understood why or believe that to be the case. And
Speaker 2: I'm sure you can find people say no, oh it
Speaker 2: worked for me, Yeah did it? Conversely, you know, we
Speaker 2: also have laws that went up in Ohio to protect
Speaker 2: kids from you know, gender reassignment or at least even
Speaker 2: even the discussions that you're having about them when it
Speaker 2: comes to being gayer straight. So I don't know, it
Speaker 2: seems like to me that the laws a little backward
Speaker 2: here in a sense it needs to be consistent across
Speaker 2: the board that you know, the court came out and
Speaker 2: said that the conversion is a bad model to bad idea,
Speaker 2: and I had no idea about the rape and other stuff.
Speaker 2: That's that's I imagine someone actually let their kid do that.
Speaker 2: That's criminal to me because it goes to show you,
Speaker 2: I guess what's more important in your life. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Their challenges that you have to face in life, and
Speaker 2: that's one of them, and it's not with your religion.
Speaker 2: You kind of got to work through that. I don't know,
Speaker 2: having someone raped or forced masturbation. It seems a little extreme,
Speaker 2: beyond the extreme to me, and you wonder about screwing
Speaker 2: people up. But you know, the bottom line, as I said,
Speaker 2: is we're really bad at being parents, all of us.
Speaker 2: No one is really really good at it. Maybe the
Speaker 2: best parents are like, Okay, your kid's fairly well adjusted here,
Speaker 2: and that's the best you can hope for. And that's
Speaker 2: certainly not perfect. But there's a lot of imperfect people
Speaker 2: in the world, and has to do with their parents.
Speaker 2: And not that I'm blaming my mom and dad or
Speaker 2: you should blame your mom and dad, because their mom
Speaker 2: and dad also had a hand. And then as we
Speaker 2: decided to reproduce, we're equally as bad and maybe a
Speaker 2: little bit better in some ways, but maybe not as
Speaker 2: much as you think. I mean, parenting is a tough,
Speaker 2: tough job, and you got to do it's right by
Speaker 2: your kid. I guess that's the bottom line here. The
Speaker 2: court left some wiggle room here though in an eight
Speaker 2: to one thing that speech is speech, conduct is different,
Speaker 2: is what they said here. Got to get to news
Speaker 2: sloany seven hundred WWD Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: Do you want to be an American?
Speaker 2: Got flown here on seven hundred WW Always interesting things
Speaker 2: happen in Cincinnati. Of course, we're following the exploits of
Speaker 2: Frost Brown, Todd Gibbons v and the city the Terry Thigi,
Speaker 2: former police chief of Cincinnati. Last week we had all
Speaker 2: the experts on discussing the case that has now gone
Speaker 2: for well six months.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: You fired someone and then six months later come up
Speaker 2: with the reasons as to why you fired her. And
Speaker 2: as you've read through, the nine page took six months
Speaker 2: to come out nine pages. By the way, if you're
Speaker 2: reading through all this, you go, well, I don't really
Speaker 2: see a smoking gun here. He was Cincinnati second in
Speaker 2: command and then the city manager forced him out, and
Speaker 2: he's watching the same thing happen to the woman who
Speaker 2: replaced him. It's Dave Bailey, Dave former CPD colonel and
Speaker 2: executive assistant chief. And you, marrycalled the story years ago,
Speaker 2: back in twenty eighteen that Chief Bailey he was under oath.
Speaker 2: He was forced out after overseeing an audit that found
Speaker 2: exorbitant amounts of overtime in his district, District five, and
Speaker 2: that was commanded by an officer alleged to be a
Speaker 2: close personal friend of then police Chief Elliott and Isaac's
Speaker 2: memo to city manager Harry Black accused Bailey becoming unmanageable
Speaker 2: despite years and years and years of having impeccable reviews.
Speaker 2: Does that sound familiar? It's like the same case all
Speaker 2: over again, Dave Bailey, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: How are you?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 7: Here?
Speaker 10: Mori scotten and thanks for reminding me of all that.
Speaker 2: It seems like yesterday, but it was long ago. As
Speaker 2: Bob Seeker said, now you know, you sadly got two
Speaker 2: years pay full pension cost attax payers like four hundred grand,
Speaker 2: and that is going to be a pittance compared to
Speaker 2: what happens with Chief Thigi. So let's jump right in
Speaker 2: because it's you know, historias repeats itself. She was the
Speaker 2: individual replace you and now she's in the same boat
Speaker 2: you are today. So when you watch city Manager Cheryl
Speaker 2: wrong play Stig on administrative leave last October, what went
Speaker 2: through your mind? Given what you went through that I
Speaker 2: just laid out, Yeah.
Speaker 10: I got back to the day.
Speaker 4: You know what happened to me.
Speaker 10: I'm like, no, no, no, no, I did the right thing.
Speaker 10: I did the right thing. I just know this, this
Speaker 10: can't be happening. And you know, we had an attorney
Speaker 10: to call down and yeah, sure enough, the city manager
Speaker 10: and the police chief no longer want this issue to
Speaker 10: be in the forefront. That was that overtime audit. And
Speaker 10: I'm like, well, I'm doing the right thing. Well, yeah,
Speaker 10: I don't matter, right, And I think, you know, I
Speaker 10: think when you look at this, you know, when you're
Speaker 10: in that position in the police department, when you're a CEO, Yeah,
Speaker 10: you got three banks of people you need to be
Speaker 10: aware of, and that's the people that.
Speaker 4: Work for you.
Speaker 10: Got there's thousands of people in that police department. You
Speaker 10: got to look out for them. You've got your communities
Speaker 10: that you have to be a tenant, that are needs,
Speaker 10: and let me tell you they're all different. But then
Speaker 10: it's the third one, and you've got to understand how
Speaker 10: to navigate the politics right. And you look at big
Speaker 10: city police chief departments across the country. She's still last
Speaker 10: to the chairs. And it's usually because of that third
Speaker 10: that third one. They didn't understand the political landscape. And
Speaker 10: that's usually what gets you know, somebody's police executives, which
Speaker 10: ultimately didn't only got me.
Speaker 2: So she got canned five days before the election, and
Speaker 2: the mayor says, well, it's not political at all.
Speaker 3: You're telling me it's one hundred percent political exactly.
Speaker 10: And I think I was told early on, if you
Speaker 10: want to rise to the ranks of the police department,
Speaker 10: you need to understand city Hall. Now you got a
Speaker 10: manage the Scott. I was able to work for the
Speaker 10: likes of Vali, Lemmy, Milton, Downey, Mayor Cranley, all of
Speaker 10: which the lines weren't blurred. They were law and order people.
Speaker 10: There were the relationship with the police department. Yeah, we
Speaker 10: don't want this in a neighborhoods do you need? What
Speaker 10: do you need to get this done? So when I
Speaker 10: was going through it, I felt like I had the
Speaker 10: full support the elected officials and the city and the mayor.
Speaker 10: We just had a city manager that didn't want this
Speaker 10: issue to rise at the forefront.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dave Bailey, I read through the report. I had
Speaker 2: employment experts, lawyers, I had a human resources manager to
Speaker 2: look through this on the show, and they said, there's
Speaker 2: really not a lot. There's no answer as to if
Speaker 2: there were justifiable costs for for termination.
Speaker 3: Do you agree with that? Assessment.
Speaker 10: I agree, and I read that report too, and I
Speaker 10: and so many people have come on your show and said,
Speaker 10: we hear a lot of this, witnesses say, witness to say,
Speaker 10: whens to say, but who are these witnesses? And I remember,
Speaker 10: you know, I think you remember we went through this
Speaker 10: some years back with Chief Blackwell. When they decided they
Speaker 10: wanted to part ways with him. It wasn't witness has
Speaker 10: said it was. It was signed statements that were aired publicly.
Speaker 10: That's what was going on side the police department. So yes,
Speaker 10: this is a little head scutching because we got witnesses say,
Speaker 10: but it's not indicative as any major failure inside of
Speaker 10: the police department.
Speaker 2: One of the things came out, she just listen, I'm
Speaker 2: on the job for thirty five years and you worked
Speaker 2: in for I think thirty one years, so almost the
Speaker 2: same amount of time. And said, listen, I never really
Speaker 2: had anything of my jacket that said I did I
Speaker 2: was in subordinate anything bad. Everyone's going to have something
Speaker 2: in there, for sure, but nothing to rise the level
Speaker 2: of hate. You're going to be on on watch, We're
Speaker 2: gonna keep an eye on you, We're going to put
Speaker 2: you on probation. We need a change of your attitude.
Speaker 2: This thing just came out of the blue, kind of
Speaker 2: like with you. And when I hear that, and she said, listen,
Speaker 2: seven years, I've never had a review, uh and a
Speaker 2: plumber review. I had no idea this was coming. And
Speaker 2: the city said, well, that's just how we do things.
Speaker 2: We don't really do reviews. And what did you experience
Speaker 2: relative to that not that long ago.
Speaker 10: That's the same thing. Often there's not a former review,
Speaker 10: and sometimes I think that's done on purpose, so there's
Speaker 10: nothing to go back and look at. So typically when
Speaker 10: you're sitting in their chairs, you don't you don't see
Speaker 10: a review. And then when things aren't going away that
Speaker 10: you know somebody has seen all things they should go,
Speaker 10: you know, all of a sudden, it's like, well this
Speaker 10: isn't right and we're gonna we're going to seek the replace.
Speaker 10: And like I said, I was sitting that day, I'm like,
Speaker 10: wait a minute. I did what I was supposed to do.
Speaker 10: And you know, that audit was mandated by city hall.
Speaker 10: So we we had done two audits about overtime and
Speaker 10: it come up with the same findings. It's like this
Speaker 10: was mandated from the city Manager's office to duty audit,
Speaker 10: and then it's a city manager's audits, you know, office
Speaker 10: of saying no, we don't, we don't want to see
Speaker 10: this issue anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is the point. You know, if you don't
Speaker 2: have a review in seven years, there's a reason why.
Speaker 2: And it makes it that way, there's plausible deniability. It
Speaker 2: might call yeah, I don't know if it costs you
Speaker 2: less or more in the long run. And again, it's
Speaker 2: not their money, it's the taxpayer's money. So this is
Speaker 2: why history repeats itself, right.
Speaker 10: And you know I told you I reham have houses too,
Speaker 10: And you know I always said in that chair, and
Speaker 10: I'm not being a chiefs Gate, but I always looked
Speaker 10: at that money as that's my money. That's my money too,
Speaker 10: that's gott's. You know, if I can buy a gallon
Speaker 10: of paint for a thirty bucks, why am I going
Speaker 10: to spend fifty Let's let's make sure we take care
Speaker 10: of tax payer money. And I've always been that way,
Speaker 10: always goes look at that money is wait a minute,
Speaker 10: that's my money and I don't want to waste it either.
Speaker 10: And that's what we were trying and accomplished. It's not
Speaker 10: waste touch fare, let's spend it if we need too.
Speaker 10: I'm all for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were told you were And in twenty two
Speaker 2: you're told to do an audit and you found overtime
Speaker 2: in District five that numbers that were incredible. I remember
Speaker 2: reading that story going only crap. These were like, you know,
Speaker 2: you're making like CEO money and you're a beat cop,
Speaker 2: Like what the hell is going on over here? And
Speaker 2: you were told to do that audit and then when
Speaker 2: you find the information, you're the guy that that was pushed,
Speaker 2: that fell on, but pushed on the sword.
Speaker 10: Well, I think it was, hey, we don't like this message.
Speaker 10: If there's only one way to get rid of the message, sure,
Speaker 10: and I think I think I think that's what happened.
Speaker 10: But when you look at that audit, I think the
Speaker 10: conclusions that audit were basically, hey, let's short this up,
Speaker 10: let's get some oversight here. Let's make you know, overtime
Speaker 10: a great thing, and and police departments you need over time.
Speaker 10: There's a sweet spot, you know, sometimes overtime is a
Speaker 10: great thing as opposed to hire an FPE.
Speaker 4: So I like overtime. I think it's it's.
Speaker 10: Well used, it's a great tool, but squandering it again.
Speaker 10: It's want on my money. It needs to control and
Speaker 10: that's all we were trying to say that audit, and
Speaker 10: that's beside the point. But what she sees you're going
Speaker 10: through now is the same thing I did, what you
Speaker 10: asked me did to do and why are you doing
Speaker 10: right well?
Speaker 2: And part of it to show to show these stories
Speaker 2: are are parallel here, Dave Bailey, with what you went
Speaker 2: through as a you know, the second in command essentially
Speaker 2: at CPD before you were sure in the door in
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, for the same reason, Terry Fiji was uh,
Speaker 2: to some degree, is is overtime? She's like, look, you know,
Speaker 2: cops love overtime until you work them so hard that
Speaker 2: they don't. She was seeing the cop side of this, saying, listen,
Speaker 2: you know you're telling me have them work more overtime.
Speaker 2: But these men and women are working too much to
Speaker 2: the point where they need some relief. I can't continue
Speaker 2: to force them out there and force the mandatory overtime.
Speaker 2: It's it's just not working for us. We've got to
Speaker 2: come up with it. And that was looked at as
Speaker 2: insubordination and that she wasn't tough on crime. To the contrary,
Speaker 2: you're the you know, there's there's lawmakers who are still
Speaker 2: around that they're the reason why you're one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty cops short.
Speaker 3: It's not Terry FIG's fault.
Speaker 10: Right, and that And that's one of consideration I was
Speaker 10: telling you about. You run a major city police department,
Speaker 10: you have to worry about your workforce. You've got to
Speaker 10: understand when they're tied. And I remember sitting up this good.
Speaker 10: I remember sit up there and we're having talks like
Speaker 10: are we pushing them too hard? You know, maybe maybe
Speaker 10: we have to back off. And we knew when summer
Speaker 10: was coming up. You know, summer's coming up. Let's back
Speaker 10: off for summer because we're getting Keep in mind, Cincinnati
Speaker 10: is an event laden city. It starts on Saint Patrick's
Speaker 10: Day and it runs all the way till the end
Speaker 10: of the year. So you get about six weeks where
Speaker 10: you got to retold that police department. By the end
Speaker 10: of February, you're up and running again. You're you're done,
Speaker 10: and it's you know, it's every weekend. And and I
Speaker 10: think the other thing about these jobs and chiefs DG
Speaker 10: can't talk, and I think I could talk a little bit.
Speaker 10: You don't realize if you immerse yourself in all this,
Speaker 10: you immerse self in that department, you immerse yourself and
Speaker 10: these neighbors. I remember, you know, with the Collaborative Agreement
Speaker 10: all that we're out there rebuild neighborhoods. We're out there
Speaker 10: working with these people on the streets trying to make
Speaker 10: these neighborhoods better.
Speaker 6: Which was a.
Speaker 10: Great thrill for me to watch north Side, watch College,
Speaker 10: You'll rebound, watch the Committee's become great again. But you
Speaker 10: know what, You become attached to these people, you become
Speaker 10: partners with them, You become immersed in all this, and
Speaker 10: then you're sitting in a chair saying we don't need you.
Speaker 10: You didn't do what we wanted you to do. Really, really,
Speaker 10: I plugged in. Everything goes on the city, and that's
Speaker 10: what you're gonna tell me. And I think that's the
Speaker 10: hard part, now, what it was over and you go
Speaker 10: through this the talk radio and then I heard it all,
Speaker 10: you know, and it's horrible for a week or two,
Speaker 10: and it's Dave barely chief fee. She goes on and
Speaker 10: on off. But then when you think about it, and
Speaker 10: I sat there one night, I'm like, you know what. Okay,
Speaker 10: it happened, but you know what, I did the right
Speaker 10: thing and that made it a little bit better for me.
Speaker 10: In the end. It's like, Okay, they don't need me,
Speaker 10: they don't won't meet it. Okay, So but I did
Speaker 10: the right thing and I found some soulis in that.
Speaker 4: I really like.
Speaker 10: Okay, I move on else.
Speaker 2: I know people and myself. You've been through it where
Speaker 2: you're fired, your jobs terminated. You know, not that you
Speaker 2: liked it, but you had more than two years pay
Speaker 2: in full pension. Most people don't get that. So that's
Speaker 2: a feather in your cap that you able to land
Speaker 2: on your feet squarely. But again it gets back to
Speaker 2: the issue. Dave Bailey's here, by the way, former CPD
Speaker 2: colonel executive assistant chief second in command by the way,
Speaker 2: under Chief Isaac and he was Cincinnati second we hasn't mentioned,
Speaker 2: and then the city manager forced him out. He's watching
Speaker 2: the same thing happen to the woman who replaced him.
Speaker 3: That's right.
Speaker 2: Terry Thiji actually replaced Dave Bailey back in the day
Speaker 2: in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3: And I'll go full circle here. Teresa Thiji replaced you.
Speaker 2: She was described at the time as quote the breath
Speaker 2: of fresh air the department needed, and now witnesses in
Speaker 2: the same report that the city paid for and extended
Speaker 2: three times are using those exact same words to subscribe.
Speaker 3: Interim Chief Adam Haddie. What does that pattern tell.
Speaker 10: You The merry go round continues, don't Scott. It's like
Speaker 10: you know, and I I saw inter a Chief Hemmy
Speaker 10: on TV the other night, and now he's facing budget
Speaker 10: cut and he's facing difficulty. It's like, okay, now how
Speaker 10: do you navigate that? Know what's happened to me and
Speaker 10: what's happening to you?
Speaker 4: Think?
Speaker 10: Now, what how do you navigate through these waters? It's
Speaker 10: very tough, it really is.
Speaker 2: You got to like form some sort of broken Hearts
Speaker 2: club or something like that, right, I.
Speaker 10: Mean, well, you know what, and I will say this,
Speaker 10: I love that job even when times were bad, even
Speaker 10: when you know, the crisis came up, the shooting came up,
Speaker 10: and there was not a day that I didn't like
Speaker 10: doing it. But when it was time to go, okay,
Speaker 10: it's time to go, and and we move on. But
Speaker 10: and I hope Chief Sig can get that. I know
Speaker 10: right now it's a struggling and I know that she
Speaker 10: believed she was wrong, and I think it's pretty clear
Speaker 10: she was. But I couldn't imagine navigating a city, the
Speaker 10: city administration that she's trying to. Like I said at
Speaker 10: the opening, I didn't have that. John Cranley was a
Speaker 10: good mayor. You could go in when you needed something, John,
Speaker 10: what do you need?
Speaker 4: What do you need?
Speaker 10: Let's get this crime. Let's get this crime out of
Speaker 10: my city. And we got to elect official tier that's
Speaker 10: going to.
Speaker 4: Help you get that done. I don't think she had that.
Speaker 10: And I think when we look at what's been going
Speaker 10: on to city Hall, that's the unfortunate thing. They didn't
Speaker 10: have her back.
Speaker 2: That's the take on the guy who essentially the buck
Speaker 2: stopped with and fired you. What's your take and what's
Speaker 2: your perspective then on the current mayor after had purevoll
Speaker 2: and city manager share long.
Speaker 10: Well, from what I've seen, and I see a report
Speaker 10: that's very vague and we don't know who they interviewed, and.
Speaker 3: There's no documentation either.
Speaker 2: By the way they gave their statements but nothing was recorded,
Speaker 2: and some say that they only took the negatives out
Speaker 2: and included positives.
Speaker 10: Yeah, it seems like it's very disheartening. I can't imagine.
Speaker 10: I can't imagine what Chief dig you feels. It's like, really,
Speaker 10: and this is what you're gonna do. And like I said,
Speaker 10: you know, you give. I tell you, Scott is one
Speaker 10: of those jobs and you give thirty some years and
Speaker 10: really you don't realize until you're done. It's like I've
Speaker 10: put my life on hold. I've put my life on hold.
Speaker 4: For this agency.
Speaker 10: And you know, it's like you don't realize what it's like.
Speaker 10: You know, we here Scott's learn on the air every
Speaker 10: day talking to himself on a microphone. But there's hundreds
Speaker 10: of people to make that happen, right say, to the
Speaker 10: police department. There's hundreds of people that make that happen
Speaker 10: every day. You're not the expert. You rely on those people.
Speaker 10: You got relationships with those people. You know that thing
Speaker 10: continues every day and you just you know, that's the
Speaker 10: part that really hurts. It's like, you know what, all
Speaker 10: these people that I work with, and that's I think
Speaker 10: you said it the other day, you had a guest
Speaker 10: on It's always about the people. It's always, yeah, it's
Speaker 10: always people. You know, you might have a boss, you
Speaker 10: don't like you might have a situation I like, but
Speaker 10: you love those people. You love those people in your agency,
Speaker 10: you love the people in the neighborhoods, and that's the
Speaker 10: part to probably get to mourn anything else.
Speaker 2: What does the twenty twenty sixth version of Dave Bailey
Speaker 2: say to the twenty twenty sixth version of Teresa Thiji,
Speaker 2: who's going through the same thing you did.
Speaker 10: I think you you got a great attorney. You listen
Speaker 10: to your attorney. And I knew that was kind of
Speaker 10: hard for me because I want, I want to want.
Speaker 10: You need to listen. You need to listen because we're
Speaker 10: giving you the best advice.
Speaker 4: We can't listen.
Speaker 10: You do what's right. If for any police administrator, I've
Speaker 10: always said this in even afterwards, I hate people going
Speaker 10: to me, what would you do different? I'm sitting in
Speaker 10: that chair, andel, what would you do different? That's a
Speaker 10: simple answer. Do what the people paid you to do.
Speaker 10: If you do that, if you get in those chairs
Speaker 10: and you do what you're supposed to do, you watch
Speaker 10: out for taxpayers, you watch out. You give it best
Speaker 10: police service you can, and if they don't want you,
Speaker 10: you can walk out saying what I'm supposed to do
Speaker 10: and you move forward. That's the best advice I've given him.
Speaker 10: You know, if your trees of Fiji, you know, you
Speaker 10: listen your attorney, you pursue what you need to pursue
Speaker 10: to make yourself whole. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 10: you do you do what's right. And if you do
Speaker 10: what's right, and you do your job and you watch
Speaker 10: out for the things you're supposed to watch out for. Work, okay,
Speaker 10: what's supposed to do. I wish, I wish you makes
Speaker 10: god better luck. And I think I said that one
Speaker 10: when Chief Dijan moved in. I wish they're better luck
Speaker 10: than what I had with this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but it looks like it's the same cycle.
Speaker 2: A look that That's why I said, it's a broken
Speaker 2: hearts club. And you can probably have a pretty good
Speaker 2: sized room full of people who have been shafted by
Speaker 2: the city and by politicians, uh for doing their job essentially,
Speaker 2: whether it's you or Terry Figi, because certainly crime levels
Speaker 2: don't look like they have improved since she's gone. But
Speaker 2: and I you know, I wish Chief Handy all the luck.
Speaker 2: Seems like a good guy. It's not about the individual,
Speaker 2: it's about the circumstances in how they choose the ex
Speaker 2: chief of the City Cincinnati or those in command. I
Speaker 2: asked you, you know what advice you would give from
Speaker 2: what you learned in twenty eighteen to t chief feed
Speaker 2: each today and just lay that thing out.
Speaker 3: Uh what can she?
Speaker 2: I suppose It's true of anybody, right if you retire,
Speaker 2: you have this reason why people hang on the jobs.
Speaker 2: Outside of money, of course, is the fear of the unknown.
Speaker 2: You lose your job. There's this great fear it's gonna
Speaker 2: work out for her.
Speaker 3: Isn't it.
Speaker 10: It is? I mean, one way or another, she couldn't
Speaker 10: wind up moving on to something else.
Speaker 4: And I was lucky.
Speaker 10: I walked out that day and I think I started
Speaker 10: rehabibility for the next day home. Yeah, I think I
Speaker 10: did buy a new a new rehab van. I think
Speaker 10: I walked out there. You know what I think I'm
Speaker 10: gonna I'm gonna buy a dry all the month. But
Speaker 10: I was able to do that, and I would I
Speaker 10: would tell anybody, especially in the policing industry. You know
Speaker 10: when you make that accit, you know, have that plan B.
Speaker 10: And you know I her Kan Kob talking the other day,
Speaker 10: and this is very important. Whatever you gonna do with
Speaker 10: the police chief. We're sitting right now in April and
Speaker 10: things are going to start to move in the city,
Speaker 10: and they move quick, and you need to get somebody
Speaker 10: in that chair and support them and get the department
Speaker 10: move in the right direction. That's very important. Actually, we're
Speaker 10: a little bit late right now, because you know, Saint
Speaker 10: Patrick's day is here and gone, and that's when this
Speaker 10: season really starts to ramp up. We got Tasters and
Speaker 10: Adi coming up. We've got all these things come up downtown,
Speaker 10: and it moves, It moves very Look look what.
Speaker 3: Happened on opening day.
Speaker 2: And I hope that's not a precursor for the coming
Speaker 2: year because Adam Henny's plate is already full. But I
Speaker 2: wish that guy all the luck in the world. He's
Speaker 2: going to need it because he's trying to run this
Speaker 2: place department with it sounds like one hand tied behind
Speaker 2: his back.
Speaker 3: He is.
Speaker 2: Dave Bailey jumping on the show this morning, has walked
Speaker 2: in Teresa Thiji's shoes and sadly, almost the exact same
Speaker 2: circumstances that Terry Fiji went through.
Speaker 3: Dave, Thanks for checking in, man.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it and for coming on and sharing this
Speaker 2: insight here because I think it's important perspective when it
Speaker 2: comes to tag pairs and the good people of Cincinnati
Speaker 2: and who's really running the show there.
Speaker 10: Yeah, thanks for having me on it. And again, Cincinnati
Speaker 10: is such a great place. And I always said, you know,
Speaker 10: the people of Cincinnati, they deserve so much better, and
Speaker 10: I hope we get it. And then I guess to
Speaker 10: get up.
Speaker 4: I think we can.
Speaker 10: We can do it all the best.
Speaker 4: And again I was shared by the best.
Speaker 3: All right, take care of my friend Ahi. Thanks, yep,
Speaker 3: see you later.
Speaker 2: They're Dave Bailey, former second command twenty eighteen. He is
Speaker 2: let go for discovering a lot of overtime being spent
Speaker 2: that should have been spent, and they fired him, but
Speaker 2: they asked him to do the investigation. He had the
Speaker 2: answers and they shoot the messenger sound familiar, sloony seven
Speaker 2: hundred w Ald. We'll do a bloat day like drunk
Speaker 2: from ham Get the hamm. Hammon is great man holding
Speaker 2: on to some water much. You got me? You know
Speaker 2: what I'm talking about here? Post Easter should be something
Speaker 2: on Monday with the uh. I don't the sodium hangover
Speaker 2: that you won sodium candy. It's too damn much. It's
Speaker 2: too much Scott flowing here, seven hundred WLW. We've got
Speaker 2: Willy coming up about a half hour. Reds on radio tonight.
Speaker 2: And maybe you weren't paying attention because the holiday weekend
Speaker 2: is here, the weather was nice. Maybe didn't get a
Speaker 2: chance to watch or listen to too much of it.
Speaker 2: I feel you. That's the beauty of baseball. Play so
Speaker 2: many games you know you're gonna wind up missing a few.
Speaker 2: The Reds went into a Globe Life Field in Arlington
Speaker 2: Easter weekend and left with a three game I said,
Speaker 2: three games sweep of the Rangers, first time the Reds
Speaker 2: have had this record this many games in since two
Speaker 2: thousand and one. Well, they won five three to two
Speaker 2: ZIP two one yesterday, outscoring Texas ninety four and held
Speaker 2: the Rangers below a sub two hundred batting average.
Speaker 3: No heirs in three games by this.
Speaker 2: I know, I know it. I know it's a first
Speaker 2: away series of the year. It's early April, but you
Speaker 2: gotta walk away happy if you're a Reds fan. Jeff
Speaker 2: Carry usually joins the show. He is on vacation this week.
Speaker 2: Every time Jeff Carr from lockdown. Reds goes on vacation,
Speaker 2: the Reds go on a heater. Maybe the red should
Speaker 2: get him on the payroll just to stay on vacation permanently.
Speaker 2: But I will set it up in the game later
Speaker 2: tonight against Miami. I said, you know what, I don't
Speaker 2: know when I'm gonna get the you know, the Reds
Speaker 2: package reads it's a hundred bucks and this week, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't want to watch some baseball threw
Speaker 2: the hundred bucks down, And I got to say, after
Speaker 2: watching some of a lot of it, the rotation is
Speaker 2: pitching like it has something to prove after what happened
Speaker 2: with not only Nick Lodolo, but with Hunter Green, the chaos,
Speaker 2: the injuries. The bullpen's holding leads. So Friday, Brady Singer
Speaker 2: comes in and gives you five innings, kept it competitive,
Speaker 2: the pen closes it out. Tony Santian got the winning relief,
Speaker 2: Pegan got the save. But Gon has been the only
Speaker 2: one to me is like not looking like the guy
Speaker 2: they just signed. But Saturday, Rhet Louder, he was just filthy.
Speaker 2: Six shot out innings, held Texas to what three hits,
Speaker 2: only walk two, and the Arrangers went oh for ten rsip.
Speaker 2: That's the kind of start that changes. I think the
Speaker 2: moment of this fan base, quite honestly, of redg nation
Speaker 2: is you look at a younger pitcher like Rhet Louder man,
Speaker 2: you can the bibblehead's going to come next week, I think.
Speaker 2: And then yesterday Chase Burns was the best start of
Speaker 2: the weekend. I thought, Okay Singer was solid, Rhet louder
Speaker 2: was a little a lot better. Chase Burns was just
Speaker 2: mind blowingly good. Six innings, nine k's and one round allowed.
Speaker 2: He's ad a one to five er way two weeks
Speaker 2: into the season.
Speaker 4: ERA.
Speaker 2: Two weeks in the season and the man they accorded
Speaker 2: to be the ace is pitching like one for sure.
Speaker 2: Brock Burke comes in instead of Pegan and slams the
Speaker 2: door shut three strikeouts in the ninth with the save,
Speaker 2: no question about it. In the Reds combined era for
Speaker 2: the Reds pitching under two runs a game against the
Speaker 2: Rangers lineup. By the way, that remember went to the
Speaker 2: World Series not too long ago. Not the same team
Speaker 2: I know, I know, but that's still in a recent memory.
Speaker 2: And the thing is the team isn't beating you with
Speaker 2: a sledgehammer. They just they're grinding these wins out. This
Speaker 2: is a grind right now. Ellie though, had a hit
Speaker 2: in the all three games homeward on Friday, drove and
Speaker 2: run Saturday and yesterday, and he's doing exactly what we
Speaker 2: thought he needed to do in what this lineup needs
Speaker 2: him to do to be a presence the other team
Speaker 2: has to plan around, for sure. Spencer Seer two for four,
Speaker 2: he looks back, home run, two rbi Friday, just consistent.
Speaker 2: Todder Stevenson after starting a little chili homer and two
Speaker 2: RBI on Friday. When he's in the lineup, it looks
Speaker 2: like that catcher spot has some real depth for sure.
Speaker 2: And then Matt McClain, who was extremely disappointing by every
Speaker 2: metric last year. He continues two hits in games one
Speaker 2: and two. He's getting on base, he's creating traffic. And
Speaker 2: Gino drove in the go ahead run on Sunday, and
Speaker 2: that was on a rare bas it it's either home
Speaker 2: run or strikeout. He hits a knock right between second
Speaker 2: and short to drive the go ahead run running on
Speaker 2: Sunday after they had tied it up. Reds wind up
Speaker 2: winning that ball game. Yesterday, Texas was four for twenty six.
Speaker 2: I mentioned with runners in scoring position during the series,
Speaker 2: and you know, go, well, they're just slumping.
Speaker 3: I guess if you're a Rangers, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think that's the Reds pitching staff executing the plan.
Speaker 2: They had a couple of airs I know in Game
Speaker 2: two that buried them in that shutout. They've got pretty
Speaker 2: good arms in that bullpen, but they couldn't do anything,
Speaker 2: didn't get comfortable against the lineup that the Red Legs have.
Speaker 2: So two weeks into the season, the Reds are playing
Speaker 2: to win in baseball. The rotation is healthy right now.
Speaker 2: Burns Louder Singer looks sharp and a massive swing from
Speaker 2: the and we know when you're not going, man, why
Speaker 2: don't we get Lodola back? When are we getting a
Speaker 2: Hunter greenback? When those concerned, when we're not thinking about
Speaker 2: those guys, it goes to show you how good they are,
Speaker 2: and then you get them back to the line of
Speaker 2: good Lord, watch out and the bullpen. Certainly, burke Is
Speaker 2: was absolutely lights out. Pegan kind of had a rough start.
Speaker 2: Maybe it looks like he's getting it back together. It
Speaker 2: was a now bier when he came in this weekend.
Speaker 2: But the sweep, I think tells you that this team
Speaker 2: can win low scoring games, which was not part of
Speaker 2: the Reds fabric last season, the years before, you know,
Speaker 2: and earlier this. Yeah, I mean one of the games
Speaker 2: against Pittsburgh's like the runs, the leads, a small lead's
Speaker 2: not gonna hold. Well, guess what that was last week.
Speaker 2: Now it's a different story. And granted it's one road
Speaker 2: series against one team. Will find out more tonight, but
Speaker 2: you know, you got to be encouraged if you're a
Speaker 2: Reds fan that they don't really need a beginning. That's
Speaker 2: how good teams win in October, and right now the
Speaker 2: Reds are playing that kind of baseball that will win
Speaker 2: games in October. So they said they're off to Miami,
Speaker 2: nex got the Marlins chance to run that winning streak
Speaker 2: further knock on wood. If everybody can stay healthy, particularly
Speaker 2: pitching rotation looks good enough to keep them in the
Speaker 2: central race hunt well in the summer. And they're right
Speaker 2: there right now, just to game back a first place
Speaker 2: and it being at six and three, best record they've
Speaker 2: had since so won the best started anyway. Miami, though,
Speaker 2: This is the interesting because you think Miami is just
Speaker 2: terrible and be terrible for all long time. But they're
Speaker 2: at five and three right now. The surprising story of
Speaker 2: the NL East Red six and three, Miami five and
Speaker 2: three and the Marlin is supposed to be that that
Speaker 2: you know they're in rebuild mode, but clearly did not
Speaker 2: get the memo from corporate there. And it's a pretty
Speaker 2: competitive East. You got the Mets, you get the Braves
Speaker 2: six and four, and I think you know, certainly in
Speaker 2: this very very young season, this is a really good
Speaker 2: first test for them against his club. Because Miami just
Speaker 2: got roughed up at Yankee Stadium and got blown out
Speaker 2: on Friday eight to two.
Speaker 3: They lost a shootout.
Speaker 2: On Saturday nine to seven, and you know, they come
Speaker 2: home a little beat up. Their pitching staff spin in
Speaker 2: high scoring environments all weekend. It's gonna make them tired.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: You look at the runs that they the runs, but
Speaker 2: they put up more runs than two combined for cright
Speaker 2: out loud, the last year's the Reds had. So that's
Speaker 2: a pretty stiff contrast. And then coming into a Reds
Speaker 2: team that held Texas to four runs in three games,
Speaker 2: and that's also a team built around pitching built around defense,
Speaker 2: and the roof will be closed, and we saw that
Speaker 2: last year. Of course, they close that roof or open
Speaker 2: the roof, depending who's pitching for the opposing team. The
Speaker 2: most pitcher friendly environment in the NL, So the Reds
Speaker 2: grinding that two run wins isn't going to change as
Speaker 2: the opponent does. Chase Burns yesterday, Red Louder Saturday. Singer
Speaker 2: was Friday, so we get to see the back end
Speaker 2: of rotation tonight and how the Reds manage those games,
Speaker 2: whether the bullpen can bridge those gaps. Think that'll be
Speaker 2: the story for at least the first couple of games,
Speaker 2: and then he gets Singer Louder. Burns could be available
Speaker 2: again by Wednesday Thursday, and Pegan I'm guessing the close,
Speaker 2: although you know he had that one rough outing struggle
Speaker 2: a little bit, but hopefully he gets back in the Gruz.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see La de la Cruz, who,
Speaker 2: as I said, had hits on all three games against
Speaker 2: Texas and Homer done Friday, looks a lot more disciplined
Speaker 2: to play play and of course you know his whole thing.
Speaker 2: He sees a lot more muscular, leaner, a lot more
Speaker 2: focused as well, and the way Marlin's pitching looks, I
Speaker 2: think it's gonna be a little different than you know.
Speaker 2: You're gonna see a lot of off speed down on
Speaker 2: the zone, stuff like that. Middle Reds middle Lions get
Speaker 2: a problem for Miami for sure. But the Moderlins rotation.
Speaker 2: I was just reading this right before the news break.
Speaker 2: Here they have quietly developed a very young, very good
Speaker 2: pitching staff to keep came close. So the Reds are
Speaker 2: gonna have to be patient, work the count, and it's
Speaker 2: going to be you know, if you thought this last
Speaker 2: series was a grind, I'm guessing the Miami series is
Speaker 2: going to be probably even more sover grind as well.
Speaker 2: And you know, you look at it, I think the
Speaker 2: Reds are a better team right now. And you got momentum,
Speaker 2: you got arrested top of the rotation, you got arms
Speaker 2: coming back, you got guys starting to hit their stride
Speaker 2: very early in the season, and the hits are coming
Speaker 2: in very timely fashion. So the only risk I think
Speaker 2: would be complacency at this point. And remember, Miami's got
Speaker 2: that home field advantage like no other. That park is
Speaker 2: something else, kind of like the course field of the East.
Speaker 2: If you a different double, different thing. But depending on
Speaker 2: what that roof, what they do with that roof, it's
Speaker 2: a whole different ballgame down there in Miami. So what
Speaker 2: are you hoping for now? Obviously, sweep would be an
Speaker 2: unbelievab statement. You sweep back to back series, that is
Speaker 2: the call for Major League Baseball that the Reds are
Speaker 2: here and they're not going away. But how three of four?
Speaker 2: That would be incredible as well, I know it. Splitting
Speaker 2: the series of two and two would be a pretty
Speaker 2: big disappointment. I think losing the season would be here
Speaker 2: we go again. We'll be panicking a week from now.
Speaker 2: But it's exactly the kind of series if you're a
Speaker 2: playoff contender you need to handle at home. Cincinnati's away,
Speaker 2: but they got the pitching, the momentum, So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm hoping for three or four, if not an outright
Speaker 2: sweep starting tonight, and we'll have the call for you
Speaker 2: here on the Home of the Reds seven hundred ww Cincinnati.
Speaker 3: What else going on?
Speaker 2: Willie is going to take care of things starting at
Speaker 2: twelve six this afternoon. I'm sure he'll be discussing what's
Speaker 2: happening in the situation and Iran tomorrow like around one o'clock.
Speaker 3: Again, this is just fluid, so we don't know.
Speaker 2: But the President was going to address from the Situation room,
Speaker 2: I believe it was the White House and the threats
Speaker 2: that he made yesterday a relative to Iran, saying hey
Speaker 2: listen and using some all the strongest language possible and say,
Speaker 2: I'd said the F bomb is pretty the strongest language
Speaker 2: possible on Easter Sunday. Nonetheless, Trump sent that out yesterday
Speaker 2: and social media and said, well, We're going to wipe
Speaker 2: you off the face of the earth. Now, I've kind
Speaker 2: of heard those saber rattling things before from him and
Speaker 2: some exaggerations, but does he actually go in on Tuesday
Speaker 2: being tomorrow and absolutely laid bar Iran because they're not
Speaker 2: opening the strait of our moves and said you'll never
Speaker 2: We're never going to open the strait of horror moves.
Speaker 2: And so you wonder what the retaliation is. And I
Speaker 2: think also maybe some winded Trump's back too because of
Speaker 2: the rescue, the successful rescue mission of not one but
Speaker 2: two of our are men that crashed in country there,
Speaker 2: and so he's got a little bit of a swagger
Speaker 2: about him, and if I'm iran, I'm a little bit worried.
Speaker 2: But as an American in a little bit world, do
Speaker 2: we really want to wipe a ran off the face
Speaker 2: of the earth? And what does that mean for the
Speaker 2: face of the earth? And well gas price is in
Speaker 2: the long term and the short term for that matter. Anyway,
Speaker 2: Willie's on the way next he'll pick up the pieces,
Speaker 2: as he says, at twelve oh six, right here in
Speaker 2: the Hall of the Redgs. Hopefully keep it rolling tonight
Speaker 2: in Miami on seven hundred WW Cincinnati