Speaker 1: Bill Cunningham, the Great American October the seventh, twenty twenty
Speaker 1: three is a date that will live in infamy for
Speaker 1: those of the Jewish faith. I think throughout the world
Speaker 1: as far as the of the aggravation of what happened
Speaker 1: with the Hamas has below all the Islamic extremists and
Speaker 1: what happened on that date is incredible. And joining you
Speaker 1: and I now as Urik Kaufman, author of American Intafada
Speaker 1: and Professor Uri Kaufman, welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show.
Speaker 1: And much as we did during nine to eleven or
Speaker 1: maybe Pearl Harbor, the world change for Israel on October
Speaker 1: the seventh, twenty twenty three. Can you describe Israel, say,
Speaker 1: on October the third or fourth of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: two or three days before the attack by hamas the
Speaker 1: status of Israel at that point. Then we're going to
Speaker 1: compare it to what Israel was today after October the seventh,
Speaker 1: and what's happening today. But describe Israel, say a couple
Speaker 1: of days before October the seventh.
Speaker 2: You go back to let's say October the sixth, twenty
Speaker 2: twenty three. Okay, Israel, I could say was in its
Speaker 2: golden age. Its economy was thriving. It's per capita income
Speaker 2: was higher than Germany, Italy, Britain, France, Canada. Even it
Speaker 2: seemed like it was in an extended period of peace.
Speaker 2: It was only spending three and a half percent of
Speaker 2: its GDP on defense, the lowest level in its history,
Speaker 2: I think, even a bit lower than what we spent
Speaker 2: here in America. It really looked like blue skies ahead,
Speaker 2: and then just overnight the whole thing went upside down,
Speaker 2: which kind of is what happened in nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 2: It looked like everything was great, and then October the sixth,
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, came along and everything got turned upside down.
Speaker 1: Of course, I was there six months before that. I
Speaker 1: sensed when I spoke to israelis I spent time in
Speaker 1: the West Bank, spent time in Masada, spent time in
Speaker 1: Palestinian held territories. It was safe, it was secure. We
Speaker 1: were told there might be some rockets at the Hotel David.
Speaker 1: If that's the case, we'll give you a warning, go
Speaker 1: into the stairwell. None of that happened. The streets were
Speaker 1: full of tourism. I was told that before October the seventh,
Speaker 1: and you know, there was full employment. About twenty five
Speaker 1: thousand Palestinians came across the checkpoints every day. There was
Speaker 1: a sense that we're over the hump. The Abraham Accords
Speaker 1: were not quite fully implemented, but Trump was going to
Speaker 1: win the election, in which case it'll be better. And
Speaker 1: all of a sudden October seventh happened. Can you to
Speaker 1: tell the American people why it happened? We've gone back
Speaker 1: in time with Pearl Harbor and with nine to eleven.
Speaker 1: Why did October the seventh happen? And why weren't the
Speaker 1: Israeli government prepared for that?
Speaker 2: Well, the lead that it happened was that CAMAS wanted
Speaker 2: to prevent normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia. And of course,
Speaker 2: when we talk about CAMAS, it's a terrorist group. We
Speaker 2: don't know the inner workings, it's all opaque. But this
Speaker 2: is basically a good I guess you could say, assessment
Speaker 2: of what happened. They did not want to see Israel normalized.
Speaker 2: There was, as you say, talk of the Abraham Accords,
Speaker 2: President Trump's Abraham Accords expanding, expanding to Saudi Arabia, expanding
Speaker 2: to a country called Oman. Maybe some other players and
Speaker 2: Hamas saw this. And you have to understand, Kamas never
Speaker 2: gave up its dream of genocide, of killing all the Jews,
Speaker 2: of wiping Israel off the map. Iran never gave up
Speaker 2: on that dream. They had a clock ticking in downtown Tehran,
Speaker 2: ticking down to a date in twenty forty when they
Speaker 2: said they were going to kill all the Jews. Hesbila
Speaker 2: never gave up on the dream, and Iran had built
Speaker 2: what they called the ring of fire around Israel. It
Speaker 2: was Camas, and not just Kamas in Gaza, but Hamas
Speaker 2: in Judea, Samaria. It was Hesbola up in Lebanon. It
Speaker 2: was Bishar Assad in Syria. It was the Iraqi militias
Speaker 2: in Iraq. She had militias in Iraq, and of course
Speaker 2: it was Yemen where you have the who, theies, and
Speaker 2: Iran itself. So they have this ring of fire. They
Speaker 2: always said they were going to activate it at some
Speaker 2: point to wipe Israel off the map. It does appear
Speaker 2: that ye yes Cin Nooir, the head of the mosque,
Speaker 2: jumped the gun and he dragged the region into a
Speaker 2: war before Iran would have wanted it but that's really
Speaker 2: what happened. You never really need much of a reason. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: with the Jahadists, I guess you can say that it's
Speaker 2: when they're living in peace that you have to ask
Speaker 2: yourself why that's happening.
Speaker 1: Why did October seventh militarily from the AMAS perspective, why
Speaker 1: did it succeed? Why was the idea of unprepared?
Speaker 2: It's exactly what happened in nineteen seventy three. There was
Speaker 2: a failure of a core assumption. The core assumption was
Speaker 2: the Palestinians in Gaza are not going to go to
Speaker 2: war because it would be an active national suicide. You
Speaker 2: have to realize at that moment, as you indicated, seventeen
Speaker 2: thousand Palestinians from Gaza were working in Israel each and
Speaker 2: every day. Israel was supplying Gaza with sixty seven thousand
Speaker 2: trucks filled with supplies. Israel supplied Gaza with five point
Speaker 2: seven billion yallons of water, of its electricity, all of
Speaker 2: its fuel by the way, as an asside, The New
Speaker 2: York Times described this as a blockade, sometimes as the
Speaker 2: Draconian blockade. They like making stuff up. But the Palestinians
Speaker 2: and God, there was no blockade. It was the opposite.
Speaker 2: They had effectively given them the benefits of peace. Prime
Speaker 2: Minister in Nitanie, who had even announced a few weeks
Speaker 2: before that Gods and Palestinians could explore for offshore natural
Speaker 2: gas in the Mediterranean off the coast of Goza, where
Speaker 2: there is thought to be natural gas, which would be,
Speaker 2: of course a big source of wealth for the Palestinian people.
Speaker 2: And no one dreamt that they would blow that up,
Speaker 2: but they did, and they did because, as the Kamas
Speaker 2: leaders themselves said, they're not like you and me. They're
Speaker 2: not like the West. They're not really concerned about bettering
Speaker 2: the lives of their people. They're not concerned with raising
Speaker 2: their kids. They just want to wipe Israel off the map.
Speaker 2: They just want to come a genocide, they say'd user
Speaker 2: apes and pigs, and that's more important to them. And
Speaker 2: you can really say the same about Iran. The Ayapola
Speaker 2: Homini back in the day once said the revolution was
Speaker 2: not about the price of watermelons, and what he met
Speaker 2: by that was if I were to ask you what's
Speaker 2: the role of government, you'd say, well, the role of
Speaker 2: government is to improve the lives of the citizenry. And
Speaker 2: then you might say, without a trick question, isn't that
Speaker 2: obvious over there? That's not the way the Islamists look
Speaker 2: at it. They view the role of government as trying
Speaker 2: to create this caliphate, hopefully in the capitol of Mecca,
Speaker 2: and killing all the people they deemed to be infidels,
Speaker 2: and that's more important than anything else, and that is
Speaker 2: why all their resources are directed towards war, towards Hesbola,
Speaker 2: towards the hoolies. Even now, the Iranians can't keep the
Speaker 2: lights on, they don't have water. I mean, certain basic
Speaker 2: things we take for granted. You turn the faucet, water
Speaker 2: comes out. They can't take that for granted in Iran.
Speaker 2: And yet the Iranians are still sending billions and billions
Speaker 2: of dollars. Took thems to Hespula, to the Hoovies, because again,
Speaker 2: this is what's most important to them. That could just
Speaker 2: make one final pull. When President Obama did the Iran deal,
Speaker 2: it freed up over one hundred billion dollars to the Iranians,
Speaker 2: and at the time, President Obama said, well, they're going
Speaker 2: to spend that money on their kids, on their country,
Speaker 2: on their economy, And it was ridiculous they took that
Speaker 2: money and they sent it to the who these the
Speaker 2: hes bought a kama because that's their national priority, that's
Speaker 2: what's most important to them, and it just showed a
Speaker 2: fundamental misunderstanding of Iranian priorities. And again, as you said,
Speaker 2: thank with President Trump is in the White House and
Speaker 2: we finally understand our enemies a little better than we
Speaker 2: did before.
Speaker 1: It's a culture of death. Some of US leaders when
Speaker 1: asked why do you build your facilities underground below hospitals
Speaker 1: and orphanages, in schools and apartment buildings, it's because the
Speaker 1: civilians that are being killed to get at them are
Speaker 1: also part of the Intifada against Israel. They want Palestinians
Speaker 1: and gods and children to be killed by the Jew
Speaker 1: in order to demonstrate to the UN into the world
Speaker 1: world that there's some sort of holocaust happening, some sort
Speaker 1: of genosade happening, which is a bunch of bs. They
Speaker 1: Hamas specifically wants men, women, and children and gods it'll
Speaker 1: be killed, and that's part of the Intifada, that's part
Speaker 1: of They're part of it. They want four year old
Speaker 1: girls to have their legs blown off because that's what
Speaker 1: they want. It's a culture of death, not a culture
Speaker 1: of life.
Speaker 3: So why should anyone make peace with them? Right right now?
Speaker 1: You know the talks are ongoing, it's going to be close.
Speaker 1: The hostages are going to be released, allegedly. I'll believe
Speaker 1: it when I see it. But why do business with
Speaker 1: them at all? Because whether it's five thousand left or
Speaker 1: five hundred left, they're committed to the destruction, the murder
Speaker 1: of Jews and Westerners whoever they might be found.
Speaker 3: Why accept their word for anything? We know what they want.
Speaker 2: Well, they're not accepting their word. And that's what's different
Speaker 2: about it this time. This time, we're not trusting the Palestinians.
Speaker 2: The way the deal is set up, the first thing
Speaker 2: that happens is the hostages go free. That's what we
Speaker 2: all want to sha. The second thing, though, is the
Speaker 2: key point. Israel is going to stay in Gaza with
Speaker 2: its soldiers in a perimeter surrounding Gaza so that they
Speaker 2: can no longer flood it with weapons from Egypt from Sinai. Now,
Speaker 2: when Kamala Harris was vice president, she said, I will
Speaker 2: not allow this. It was in a speech in July
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four when she was already, he presumed
Speaker 2: a candidate for the Democrats. She said, I will not
Speaker 2: allow this. I'm not going to let Israel have a
Speaker 2: presence there. It'll shrink Gaza and that'll hurt the Palestinians. Well, well,
Speaker 2: then if you're doing that, you're basically trusting Comas to
Speaker 2: not do what he has done before and has been
Speaker 2: doing for decades, which is just rearmed for the next round.
Speaker 2: This time it's going to be different, and President Trump
Speaker 2: has made that absolutely clear. He is also said Camas
Speaker 2: is not going to be in power when this is over.
Speaker 2: Gaza is going to demilitarize. There will be some sort
Speaker 2: of civilian government, but Hamasa and the PA, the Palestinian authority,
Speaker 2: which isn't really much better, they're just not going to
Speaker 2: be allowed to take a part in that. So we
Speaker 2: can only hope that it's going to get a little
Speaker 2: bit better because now Israel will be in charge of
Speaker 2: security instead of trusting the Palestinians who've broken their word,
Speaker 2: basically broken every treaty they've ever signed.
Speaker 1: Professor Yurik Kaufman, can you address yourself to the issue
Speaker 1: why is Israel so despised by Europe, by the UN,
Speaker 1: by American college kids, if a poll was done about
Speaker 1: do you support Palestinians or israel I think the poll
Speaker 1: indicates two thirds of Americans wrongfully educated by the miseducation systems.
Speaker 1: We have support Palestinians over Israelis, who simply won piece
Speaker 1: and Israel has few friends in the world.
Speaker 3: Why is that?
Speaker 2: The easiest way to understand this is to engage in
Speaker 2: a thought experiment. So let's assume every fact of the
Speaker 2: October seven attack happened exactly the way it did. Total
Speaker 2: unprovoked attack. Twelve hundred people murdered, two hundred and fifty ostages,
Speaker 2: women raped. One more fact you need to know the
Speaker 2: Biden administration budgeted billions of dollars in aid for Gaza,
Speaker 2: to whom they would characterize as the innocent civilians. Okay,
Speaker 2: let's assume all that happened exactly the way it did.
Speaker 2: Only let's assume the attackers were Germans of another era
Speaker 2: or Ukrainians, in other words, are white supremacists. Let's assume
Speaker 2: they were white people. Right, do you really think that
Speaker 2: Biden would have budgeted billions of dollars to white people
Speaker 2: who said Jews are apes and pigs? And now hold
Speaker 2: the thought, let's change all the identities of the players.
Speaker 2: Let's assume again same attack, and let's assume white supremacists
Speaker 2: instead of Arab supremacists. But let's assume they murdered twelve
Speaker 2: hundred black people and they raped black women. And now
Speaker 2: a Republican administration said, let's give billions of dollars to
Speaker 2: the innocent civilians, the innocent white supremacist who say that
Speaker 2: blacks are apes and pigs. There would have been rioting
Speaker 2: in the streets, and rightly so. So what we have
Speaker 2: here is this weird kind of dynamic. And then you
Speaker 2: get into something called cognitive dis where when people have
Speaker 2: deeply held beliefs and then facts appear the contradict the
Speaker 2: belief people change the facts, not the beliefs. And that's
Speaker 2: why Barack Obama, right after the attack tweeted that we
Speaker 2: have to say facts that there's unclean hands on both sides. Well,
Speaker 2: why don't he draw the moral equivalents, he said, because
Speaker 2: of what he terms the unbearable occupation, Well, there was
Speaker 2: no occupation Israels was drawn from Goza eighteen years before.
Speaker 2: But he didn't like those facts, so he changed the
Speaker 2: facts to fit the narrative and just one final thought.
Speaker 2: Imagine for a moment again, a thought experiment. Every fact
Speaker 2: happened exactly the way it did, and Iran was run
Speaker 2: not by crazy ayahtolas who say jewser apes and pigs,
Speaker 2: but by white supremacists who say Blacks are apes and pigs.
Speaker 2: Do you really think he would have done in Iranvian?
Speaker 2: Do you really think that Barack Obama would have agreed
Speaker 2: that they get to keep the first generation centri if
Speaker 2: you just continue their research, get over one hundred billion
Speaker 2: dollars to spend on insurgents killing black people. They get
Speaker 2: to make arms in five years, missiles in abs. They
Speaker 2: enrich uranium in ten fifteen years later, from the beginning
Speaker 2: of the agreement its sunsets. They get all the enriched
Speaker 2: uranium back. The experts say the breakout period maybe a
Speaker 2: few weeks, maybe a few months. The Iranians say they're
Speaker 2: going to take that and drop a bomb on black people,
Speaker 2: kill all the black people. Do you really think that
Speaker 2: Obama would have done a deal? Of course not. But
Speaker 2: it was with a regime run by what is turned
Speaker 2: people of color, and the people they're fighting are a
Speaker 2: white group of privileged. The Jews, and now suddenly it
Speaker 2: all gets scrambled and you can convince yourself cognitive dissonance
Speaker 2: that well, maybe the Iranians really hate us because of
Speaker 2: that coop in nineteen fifty three, which is of course ridiculous.
Speaker 2: The Iatola's Beast at Whop as well, just for the
Speaker 2: same reason we did. They didn't want to see a
Speaker 2: communist running Uran anymore than we did. I'm not defending
Speaker 2: the coup itself. I'm just pointing out that's not why
Speaker 2: they hate us. It's absurd, you know, And you to
Speaker 2: convince yourself, well, they'll take that one hundred billion dollars,
Speaker 2: they'll spend it on their kids. They're gonna lie to
Speaker 2: love us. They're people of color, they're fighting oppression, and
Speaker 2: you get all this nonsense which has passed around his truth,
Speaker 2: and not just in college campuses, but in mainstream media,
Speaker 2: in the New York Times, in CNN, in the BBC
Speaker 2: by Christian Amenport. But I have to say not by
Speaker 2: Bill Cunningham. And that's why it's so important to listen
Speaker 2: to your show.
Speaker 1: I went there. I went to Israel. You know, I
Speaker 1: worked in Jewish law firms for a long time. Katzman
Speaker 1: logan and helper, and for some reason, I feel a
Speaker 1: great affinity for the Jewish people. What they've had to
Speaker 1: put up with the Ring of Fire was something which
Speaker 1: has largely been eliminated except for what's happening in certain
Speaker 1: parts of Iran, in which they won't give up, they
Speaker 1: won't spend their money to help their own people. They
Speaker 1: continue to have the outside power about to take you over.
Speaker 1: It's been used throughout history. The policies of the Iranian
Speaker 1: government is awful, it's terrible, it makes no sense. However,
Speaker 1: it's not our problem. It's the Jews causing the difficulties.
Speaker 1: It's the classic what alf Hitler used against the Jews
Speaker 1: is not our policies that have failed, is the Jews
Speaker 1: destroying us. And that same idea is our policies have
Speaker 1: failed internally. We can't look at ourselves as having failed.
Speaker 1: Got to blame someone else for it. And that's always
Speaker 1: throughout history the jew for causing the problems. And all
Speaker 1: the Israeli wants to do is live in peace. Israel
Speaker 1: is a multi dimensional I've seen the gay pride flag
Speaker 1: flying in Jerusalem. I've gone to Catholic masses in Jerusalem.
Speaker 1: I've seen twenty twenty five percent of the Kanesse are Muslims.
Speaker 1: It is a Western style democracy. The truth will set
Speaker 1: you free. But many as you say, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to change my opinion, So I changed the facts. The
Speaker 1: Palestinians have been in charge of the gods for almost
Speaker 1: twenty years, and that they freely elected Hamasta be their government.
Speaker 1: Knowing I think what would happen in the long run,
Speaker 1: begging that Iran will get the nuclear weapon quickly.
Speaker 3: Set it out over Israel.
Speaker 1: All hell would break loose and then it's a culture
Speaker 1: of death, and then they'll go to heaven with the
Speaker 1: seventy two virgins. And I wish the rest of the
Speaker 1: world could see the reality of what Israel faces and
Speaker 1: what they've overcome. They've called the desert to bloom. It's
Speaker 1: a multi functional, multi dimensional Western democracy and it's working.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure in the months ahead, when peace finally
Speaker 1: comes and Benjamin not to, you know who's government's going
Speaker 1: to be in trouble for not being prepared for what
Speaker 1: happened on October the seventh, It's going to be a problem.
Speaker 1: And I guess they're going to change governments, and I
Speaker 1: pray the next government has his attitude when it comes
Speaker 1: to defending our homeland and the professor Uri Kaufman book
Speaker 1: Is America into Intofada. We've not even touched the surface
Speaker 1: of the of what's happening on college campus is how
Speaker 1: they're infiltrated and paid for by ignorance from the river
Speaker 1: to the sea. They think it's the Mississippi and the Caribbean.
Speaker 1: They have no idea it's Jordan. In other words, killed
Speaker 1: the Jews the six million that remained. But Professor, well,
Speaker 1: today's a big day. We'll see what happens down the road.
Speaker 1: But thanks for coming on the Bill Cunningham Show and
Speaker 1: Ury Kaufman the book Is America into Fada? Once again,
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on the Bill Cunningham Show. Professor, you're
Speaker 1: a great American. I think you have it right, and
Speaker 1: I think I have it right.
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. And thank you so much for
Speaker 2: having me. It's always a privilege to speak to you
Speaker 2: and a pleasure to be on the show.
Speaker 3: God Bless America, God bless Israel. Thank you very much.
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