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Speaker 1: Away from five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm Moweger,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening. We'll hook Your weekend is off

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Speaker 1: to a great start. Kentucky loses to Florida seventy one

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Speaker 1: to sixty three. Bounced from the SEC Tournament. Wildcats back

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Speaker 1: in action next week in the NCAA Tournament.

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Speaker 2: Do you see?

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Speaker 1: Bearcats will not be playing in the NCAA Tournament and

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Speaker 1: Wes Miller is no longer Cincinnati's head coach. This broke

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Speaker 1: earlier this afternoon, confirmed by our guy Chad Brindle at

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Speaker 1: Bearcat Journal dot com, who is joining us to start

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Speaker 1: the show. Chad, first of all, I know it's a

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Speaker 1: busy day for you, so I appreciate the time. By

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Speaker 1: the way, Bearcat journal dot com has hot Board one

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Speaker 1: point zero up right now coaching candidates for the vacancy

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Speaker 1: at UC and we'll tap into that here in just

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Speaker 1: a second. I want to start with something that you

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Speaker 1: and I have talked about occasionally over the last couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks, including yesterday, and that's you know the fact

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Speaker 1: that Wes Miller bringing him back for year number six

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Speaker 1: was always going to be a hard sell to a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of rank and file fans, but

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Speaker 1: that he did have some allies. He had some allies,

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Speaker 1: maybe some deep pocketed allies on his side. Were they

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Speaker 1: won over today and is that why this was done?

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Speaker 2: We don't have that answer yet. What I think is

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Speaker 2: something that we talked about yesterday that ultimately it's John

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Speaker 2: Cunningham's job that's on the line here, Like that isn't

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Speaker 2: a cushy it's not cushy, but it's a well paid position.

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Speaker 2: And if you bring Wes back and it doesn't work,

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Speaker 2: and you do lose the fan base in the process,

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Speaker 2: then that's John Cunningham that's going to be on the carpet,

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Speaker 2: you know, having to answer questions about decisions that he made.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sure that you know, eighties are partly responsible

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Speaker 2: for making sure that the people that fund the program

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Speaker 2: are on board with the decisions that need to be made.

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Speaker 2: Guess he was able to sell the people, you know,

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Speaker 2: at the highest donation level that this is a decision

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Speaker 2: that ultimately, unfortunately needed to be made and that they

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Speaker 2: had to go forward. But if we find out they've

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Speaker 2: got a three million dollar roster for next year, then

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Speaker 2: maybe we have that Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I want to go down that road here in

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Speaker 1: just a bit. How is this separation between UC and

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Speaker 1: wes Miller going to work financially?

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Speaker 2: It's a great question. The the the answers I've gotten

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Speaker 2: on it so far seem to indicate that Cincinnati is,

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Speaker 2: if need be, willing to wait until April first, when

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Speaker 2: the buyout drops, to officially let go wes Miller. That's

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Speaker 2: not how I would do it, but you know, sometimes

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Speaker 2: you have to, uh, you have the other party has

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Speaker 2: to be willing to play ball, and if he's not

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Speaker 2: willing to negotiate down a lower buyout, or maybe they

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Speaker 2: are working on the lower buyout. That's what we don't

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Speaker 2: know is they could be working on on a you know,

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Speaker 2: a buyout number that's somewhere between the ten and the

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Speaker 2: four point six with the lawyers right now. Remember u

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Speaker 2: See didn't announce that wes Miller was fired. This has

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Speaker 2: gotten out in the media and has been confirmed, but

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Speaker 2: you see has not made this official. So they could

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Speaker 2: be in negotiations. From what I know, Wes would like

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Speaker 2: to find a job this cycle. That's going to be

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Speaker 2: really hard to do if you're you know, under contract

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Speaker 2: until April first, or be a little bit more difficult

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Speaker 2: to do if you're under contract until April first. So

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Speaker 2: maybe we reach a point over these next two and

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Speaker 2: a half weeks that it's been official for both and

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Speaker 2: they come to an agreement and both sides move on.

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Speaker 2: But it does sound like at least Cincinnati waiting this

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Speaker 2: out until April first is on the table of possibilities.

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Speaker 1: All right, if that ends up being the case, how

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Speaker 1: do you conduct a coaching search at the same time, Well.

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Speaker 2: Everybody knows you got a coaching over, right, Like the

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Speaker 2: hard part is if you're trying to like walk the

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Speaker 2: line and say, well, we have we don't we have decided,

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Speaker 2: like the athletic director can still talk to agents, can

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Speaker 2: still proceed as necessary. Now I don't know. And there's

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Speaker 2: really no rules for coaches, right, Like you can go

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Speaker 2: meet a coach, Like you know, there's coaches that are

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Speaker 2: agreeing to new jobs that are still coaching their old job.

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Speaker 2: So if John Cunningham wants to go have lunch with

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Speaker 2: somebody and interview them or talk to them or whatever,

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Speaker 2: that's there's really the wild lest. There's really no like

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Speaker 2: restrictions on how you can do that. So that would

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Speaker 2: that would still be a possibility per se. So does

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Speaker 2: it make it harder than it needs to be. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it probably makes it harder than it needs to be,

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Speaker 2: but it's not completely out of the realm of possibility.

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Speaker 1: In early February, wes Miller seemed like he was a

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Speaker 1: dead man walking. And then the team surges towards bubble,

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Speaker 1: they get on the bubble, the bubble is burst on Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: The way they lost the game on Wednesday, I think

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Speaker 1: for a lot of folks was a poor reflection of

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Speaker 1: the coach. How much did the specifics of what was

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Speaker 1: effectively the season ending loss on Wednesday possibly drive this decision?

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Speaker 2: It's had to be a factor, noough, Like if they

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Speaker 2: win that game and you know, they they play close

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Speaker 2: with Arizona, and you know, let's say that they don't

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Speaker 2: make the NCAA Tournament at that point, but they're you know,

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Speaker 2: they pop up on the screen Sunday as the second

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Speaker 2: team out of the first team out, and you know,

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Speaker 2: you went eight and two down the stretch going into

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Speaker 2: that Arizona game and you felt just short. There's a

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Speaker 2: path there. I think that Wes Miller would still be

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Speaker 2: the head coach at Cincinnati and get that opportunity for

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Speaker 2: the sixth year, had an eight point lead with two

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Speaker 2: minutes left. You barely got a shot up. Not only

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Speaker 2: you know and at the end of regulation regulation, but

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Speaker 2: also the final couple minutes of overtime you couldn't get

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Speaker 2: a shot up. You you let the house burn down,

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Speaker 2: like while you were holding the fire hose. You had

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Speaker 2: three timeouts and you didn't use any of them. Is

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Speaker 2: that good? I just came up. I like that one

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Speaker 2: shout the house burned down holding the hose. I think

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Speaker 2: that's pretty good. But your team is melting down. You

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Speaker 2: have three timeouts and you just the meltdown happens in

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Speaker 2: front of your face and an a point lead goes

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Speaker 2: to tide and the blink of an eye, the optics

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Speaker 2: were just awful for Wes and for his team. At

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Speaker 2: that point, you're clinging right like you're clinging to the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to make the NCAA tournament advancing that goal is

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Speaker 2: right there and it just completely falls through your hands.

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Speaker 2: That that that had to be a doctor in John

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Speaker 2: Cunningham's decision.

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Speaker 1: On a macro level. Why did the west Miller era

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Speaker 1: not work? Why did it not work out?

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Speaker 2: Because he never managed to go from. And then here's

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Speaker 2: the thing. West isn't a bad coach. Fans get upset.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of hyperbole. West Miller's not a bad

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Speaker 2: basketball coach. He's a top forty, top fifty type basketball coach.

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Speaker 2: Problem is, in this league, top forty, top fifty is

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Speaker 2: going to get you right where Wes ended up almost

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Speaker 2: every year, and that's in purgatory. You're not bad. You

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Speaker 2: didn't bottom out like Kansas State did this year where

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Speaker 2: they they're going to have to pay twenty million to

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Speaker 2: fire your own tang because at one point they were

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Speaker 2: what two and thirteen in the league, But you weren't

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Speaker 2: good enough to challenge up into that top six, top

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Speaker 2: five six group in the league. And so you're fighting

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Speaker 2: with five six other teams that are right in that

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Speaker 2: same grouping as you, that are not as good as

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Speaker 2: the top six, but not as bad as the bottom

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Speaker 2: three or four. They didn't win enough of those games

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Speaker 2: against those teams that were peers in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the pack in the Big twelve, and it happened over

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Speaker 2: and over. How much different is this conversation if they

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Speaker 2: don't lose to West Virginia twice this year, or if

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Speaker 2: they don't lose to a bad Arizona State team on

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Speaker 2: the road, or Oklahoma State last year, or what that

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Speaker 2: first year in the Big twelve, they were right there

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Speaker 2: on the bubble and they lose to an Oklahoma team

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Speaker 2: that was hurt, guys, missing, dreadful. You know, there were

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Speaker 2: too many of those things that continued to happen that

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Speaker 2: kept Cincinnati from being a ten to eleven win Big

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Speaker 2: twelve team and instead of seven to eight nine win

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Speaker 2: Dig twelve team, and ultimately that was his downfall. They

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Speaker 2: were never bad, but they were never good enough. And

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Speaker 2: five years is I think a fair representation of you

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Speaker 2: got five years to get your team in the NCAA tournament.

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Speaker 2: You're well funded, you've got support, mo we talked about

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Speaker 2: this yesterday. They weren't good this year. At times there

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Speaker 2: were still ten thousand people in the stands. You've got

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Speaker 2: great fans support, You've got a tradition rich program. Five

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Speaker 2: years is a lot of time to make one NCAA

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Speaker 2: tournament and they didn't do it.

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Speaker 1: Bearkatjournal dot com right now has a hot board and

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Speaker 1: you do this whenever there's a UC coaching search, and

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Speaker 1: you separate coaching candidates possible coaching candidates into certain tiers.

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Speaker 1: Should Jared Calhoun have his own tier?

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Speaker 2: Probably? Yeah, I think we're at that point, especially with

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Speaker 2: the news and look, coaches have agreed to extensions before

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Speaker 2: and then gone on and coached somewhere else. So we

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Speaker 2: have not ruled out Josh Shirts at this point. One

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Speaker 2: because that came out before the Cincinnati job came open,

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Speaker 2: So we don't know if he has interests in the

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Speaker 2: Cincinnati job or not. But if he is going to

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Speaker 2: stay at Saint Louis, I do think Jared Calhoun has

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Speaker 2: to be all systems go. I think he wants to

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Speaker 2: be here. I think he really had his eye on

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Speaker 2: two jobs, one with Cincinnati, one with Pitt. It's not opening,

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Speaker 2: Cincinnati's open, so he wants to be here. It seems

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Speaker 2: like the right fit. We don't know if John Cunningham

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Speaker 2: wants him to be here or not, but we know that,

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a connection there. He's a UC alumni.

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Speaker 2: He's coached with Bob Huggins, so there is some you know,

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Speaker 2: connection to the history. If you see, it just makes

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Speaker 2: too much sense and really probably should have his own

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Speaker 2: designation on the hot board until further notice.

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Speaker 1: I guess should we assume that whoever the next head

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Speaker 1: coach is, he will walk into a situation where on

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Speaker 1: day one he has no players.

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Speaker 2: So the interesting thing is mo and yes, assume that that,

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Speaker 2: Like in a coaching change in college sports, when it

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Speaker 2: comes to what does it comes to what does the

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Speaker 2: roster look like? Just assume it's going to be completely gutted,

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Speaker 2: because that's how the transfer portal era works. This year,

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Speaker 2: they have made a change. The transfer portal won't open

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Speaker 2: until April seventh. It used to be that it opened

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Speaker 2: the Monday after like this coming Monday, and then I

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Speaker 2: think they moved it to the Monday after the first

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Speaker 2: and second round, but still it opened very early in

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Speaker 2: the process. Now it doesn't open until April seventh. If

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Speaker 2: you get a coach in here on April second, right,

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Speaker 2: they're going to have five days to meet with the

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Speaker 2: team and to you know, work on the situation. Now,

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Speaker 2: what we don't know. Corey Evans, who was brought in

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Speaker 2: as the GM last year, has a multi year contract.

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Speaker 2: If he's staying, and I don't know that he is

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Speaker 2: or not, I don't have that answer yet, But if

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Speaker 2: Corey Evans is staying, he's going to be able to,

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Speaker 2: you know, build that connection that he's already got with

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Speaker 2: a lot of these guys, in terms of who's interested

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Speaker 2: in staying, who is willing to listen to what the

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Speaker 2: new coach has to say, who is already out the door.

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Speaker 2: So you know, if he is sticking around, then there

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Speaker 2: is a path to the roster sticking together. But in

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Speaker 2: terms of like what would I anticipate as it stands,

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Speaker 2: I always anticipate, Yeah, pretty much everybody's gonna be gone.

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Speaker 1: Would Corey have any say in who the next head

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Speaker 1: coach is going to be?

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Speaker 2: Probably not. That's not people here GM and think of

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Speaker 2: it more as like a pro sports term, like I

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Speaker 2: think he would be if if he's if he's going

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Speaker 2: to stick around, I think he'd be consulted. I think

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Speaker 2: he would definitely be I don't think he would be

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Speaker 2: ignored in the process. But ultimately, it's John Cunningham's job

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Speaker 2: that's on the line, right, That's that's where you got

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Speaker 2: to go, whose job, whose neck is on the line

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Speaker 2: with the higher John Cunningham's neck is on the line

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Speaker 2: with the higher So he's gonna he's gonna lean on

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Speaker 2: his process and and his you know, decision making to

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Speaker 2: make the higher.

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Speaker 1: With with any head coaching vacancy, the question always comes

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Speaker 1: up about money, and you talk about well funded. That's

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Speaker 1: the term you used before, and in discussing this program,

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Speaker 1: folks always guess at what a roster costs, and there's

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Speaker 1: always conjecture out there, but relatively speaking, compared to their

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Speaker 1: big twelve peers, a new coach comes in, does he

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Speaker 1: have at his disposal what will allow him to win,

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Speaker 1: win soon, and win at a bigger level beyond simply

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Speaker 1: eking into the NCAA tournament and playing in Dayton, which

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Speaker 1: was the bar that everybody said for wes Miller this

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Speaker 1: particular season.

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Speaker 2: I would like to think so. I mean they had

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Speaker 2: a ten million roughly a little bit more, a little

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Speaker 2: bit less whatever, roughly a ten million dollar roster this year.

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Speaker 2: That's enough to win like that? Is it the top

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Speaker 2: number in the conference? No, but it puts you in

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Speaker 2: the range. And they had two second team All Conference

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Speaker 2: and an honorable mention All Conference player. And those guys

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Speaker 2: have more money in their bank accounts than the two

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Speaker 2: of us and less things, you know, unless they have

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Speaker 2: put themselves in a terrible position based on firing wes Miller,

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Speaker 2: and they have to lower that number for a year,

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Speaker 2: they should be in good position. And I can't imagine

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Speaker 2: mo like, even if maybe it drops to eight million,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, you're you're maybe a player or too short,

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Speaker 2: but you still be able to put a pretty good

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Speaker 2: roster together. I can't at this point without all the information.

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Speaker 2: But at this point I have a hard time believing

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Speaker 2: they would let it get to a point where they

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Speaker 2: only have five or six million dollars for the roster

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Speaker 2: to try to compete in the best league in America.

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Speaker 2: It would make it a very difficult year one starting

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Speaker 2: point for your new coach.

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Speaker 1: Do I assume that when or if the Crown or

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Speaker 1: Nit come calling this weekend, that the school will say thanks,

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Speaker 1: but no thanks.

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Speaker 2: Well, the NIT doesn't matter at this point anymore. For Cincinnati.

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Speaker 2: They are contractually obligated to play in the Crown. It's

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Speaker 2: apparently seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars to buy out

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Speaker 2: of that. What I don't know is if there's anything

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Speaker 2: in there that says, if you know, you get you

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Speaker 2: get some relief if you make a coaching change. I

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Speaker 2: can't imagine they play in the Crown this year. I

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Speaker 2: just have a very hard time seeing them trying to

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Speaker 2: pull that off. As a coach is on the way out,

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Speaker 2: a new coach is either just getting involved or or

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Speaker 2: on the way in. It doesn't make a lot of

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Speaker 2: sense for Cincinnati to play in that tournament this year.

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Speaker 2: They are contractually obligated because it sounds like they're going

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Speaker 2: to take eight Big twelve teams if you include UCF

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Speaker 2: and TV and Cincinnati's ninth and the top two teams

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Speaker 2: that don't make the tournament are obligated to go to

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Speaker 2: the Crown. So so Cincinnati would have that obligation. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, and I'm hoping to get an answer on

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Speaker 2: that today or tomorrow, So follow me on social media

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Speaker 2: for that. But I don't know that they'll have to

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Speaker 2: pay the money. But there is a seven hundred and

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Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars price tag for.

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Speaker 1: Not going Awesome stuff. As always, no you're busy, check

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Speaker 1: out Bearcat journal dot com get the latest on west

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Speaker 1: Miller's departure and the coaching search. Thank you as always, man,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk soon.

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Speaker 2: Appreciate it. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: All's our guy, I Chad Brendel, Bearcat Journal dot com.

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Speaker 1: Terry Nelson's going to join us at five twenty four

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Speaker 1: from five o'clock. This is ESPN fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Thirty, Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic.

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Speaker 3: From the UC Health Traffic Center. The new uc oh

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Speaker 3: Sure Wellness Suite is a home for transformative whole person

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Speaker 3: well being backed by Science. Register for classes now visit

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Speaker 3: UCHealth dot com. Southbound seventy five at Freeman Avenue, there's

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Speaker 3: an accident off onto the right shoulder Butterworth Road blocked

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Speaker 3: off from a fallen tree between Sibsey Road and Ascot

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Speaker 3: Tribe and eastbound two seventy five debris in the roadway

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Speaker 3: after Hamilton Avenue on that ezelic with traffic.

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Speaker 1: This report is sponsored by the Our American Stories podcast.

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Speaker 1: This is Monta Montgomery, the senior producer of Our Americans