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Speaker 1: Dec I have seven six here at forty five kr

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Speaker 1: C DE talk station. Wacky things going on in the

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Speaker 1: City of Cincinnati as we fast approached the Yoga Bay

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Speaker 1: November election. Early voting is open if we want to

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Speaker 1: change the course of the city. Welcome back to the

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Speaker 1: fifty five CARC Morning Show. President for the Fraternal Order

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Speaker 1: Police Chapter sixty nine, Ken Kober, representing the Cincinnati City

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Speaker 1: of Cincinnati Police Officers can real pleasure as always to

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Speaker 1: have you on the program.

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Speaker 2: Hey, good morning, Brian, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure you're familiar with Cheryl Long's announcement and

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Speaker 1: statement yesterday UH putting Police Chief three cy Thigi on

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Speaker 1: administrative leave paid administrative leave pending an internal investigation on

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Speaker 1: the effectiveness of her leadership. She said the city continues

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Speaker 1: to face serious public safety challenges that underscore the need

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Speaker 1: for stability at the command level. Therefore, I've named Assistant

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Speaker 1: Chief Adam Henny as the interim police chief. Our focus

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Speaker 1: remains on maintaining stability within the department, ensuring the highest

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Speaker 1: standard of service to our residents. Ken, is this an

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Speaker 1: acknowledgment by the Parvole administration that we have a problem

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Speaker 1: with crime in downtown Cincinnati. And why is Police Chief

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Speaker 1: Fiji being put on administrative leave subject to an investigation

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Speaker 1: into her ability on her job when she as I understand,

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Speaker 1: and you can correct me and for my listeners if

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong on this. Wasn't she merely following the parvol

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Speaker 1: Long directive in terms of how they view law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: you know, rethinking the police department allocation and resources, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So she's being suspended for following the will of the administration. Now,

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Speaker 1: am I close on that?

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Speaker 2: Now? You're you're You're absolutely right, And that's the problem.

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Speaker 2: I've said it before. Chief Fiji absolutely has the ability

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Speaker 2: to lead this police department, but she's not given that ability.

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Speaker 2: This goes back to fourth and Alum. You know, and

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Speaker 2: I said a nauseum that politics need to stay out

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Speaker 2: of policing. And here we are yet again seeing you

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Speaker 2: know that exact very thing the infiltrating this police department is,

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Speaker 2: you know, having them, you know, put her on ad

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Speaker 2: minute straight of lee for simply doing what she's told

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Speaker 2: to do by city administrators.

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Speaker 1: Well, your reference to fourth and ELM is of course

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Speaker 1: that terrible beatdown situation. And I always like to refer

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Speaker 1: my listeners to Holly specifically, who was merely rendering aid

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Speaker 1: to someone who had been beaten up and got colcock

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Speaker 1: in the face, having done absolutely nothing to deserve it.

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Speaker 1: But that was the day. My understanding from I know,

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Speaker 1: you know John Newsom, he said, Henny the new assistant

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Speaker 1: or well former assistant police chief, Henny who's now interim

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Speaker 1: police chief, was the one who issued the citation against

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Speaker 1: the white guy who slapped that black guy in that

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Speaker 1: fight when the other police department said there was no

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Speaker 1: grounds for a citation on that is he the one

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Speaker 1: who actually caved them to the whim of the Purval

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Speaker 1: administration and issued that citation.

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Speaker 2: Oh, he was the one that was ordered to do it,

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Speaker 2: ordered to do it, correct. He ordered to do it

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Speaker 2: to protect the two investigators that were involved, because they

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Speaker 2: flat out said I'm not doing it, and he didn't

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Speaker 2: want them to be put in a position where they

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Speaker 2: had to stand up to the administration, so he said,

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Speaker 2: I'll do it for him.

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Speaker 1: So you're not suggested that he too should have stood

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Speaker 1: up to the administration since there was no at least

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Speaker 1: in the hearts and minds of the officers that were

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Speaker 1: there no justification or grounds to issue a citation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and what we're seeing right now is exactly that.

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Speaker 2: You know, the chief, my understanding, at some point decided

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Speaker 2: that she's going to stand up to this administration and

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Speaker 2: the end result is okay, fine, then we'll replace you.

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Speaker 2: And you have to understand that this going on, This

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Speaker 2: isn't going to be fixed with a new person in

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Speaker 2: charge of this police department. As long as City Hall

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Speaker 2: decides that they are going to control with us on

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Speaker 2: the police department, this exact same thing's in it continue.

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Speaker 2: That's just the reality of this.

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Speaker 1: Well, so now I suppose you could say, well, Fiji

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Speaker 1: deserved to be placed administratedly because she refused to follow

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Speaker 1: the administration administrations and control of her destiny. They can

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Speaker 1: fire her, They could fire her if they're not happy

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Speaker 1: with her leadership role. But she's being let go because

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Speaker 1: she I thought, work with the administration did what they wanted. Now,

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Speaker 1: if Henny, as in current role, goes on his own

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Speaker 1: and you know, performs law enforcement as chief of Police

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Speaker 1: the way he sees fit in his twenty five years

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Speaker 1: of experience, and he tells a par of all, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing it my way. This is the way I

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Speaker 1: believe that resources should be allocated. I mean, that's what

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Speaker 1: we kind of want from a police chief, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Oh, without a doubt, you know, but this has been ruined.

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Speaker 2: Issue five has essentially hamstringed every police chief from being

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Speaker 2: able to do that. And that's the problem. Like I said,

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Speaker 2: until something like that changes, until a police chief has

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Speaker 2: protections to not be fired because they are making the

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Speaker 2: best law enforcement decision that they can make, not you know,

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Speaker 2: being dictated by what city Hall tells them to do.

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Speaker 2: Until that changes, none of it doesn't matter. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: matter who you make the police chief.

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Speaker 1: Well, what's your reaction to the administration?

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Speaker 2: Per of all?

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Speaker 1: Cheryl Long acknowledging what we collectively have known has been

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Speaker 1: a real problem crime. They've been denying it up until

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Speaker 1: within the seemingly the last five minutes, and now it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: we need to get rid of police chief tch. We've

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Speaker 1: got a law enforcement problem. We have a safety of

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Speaker 1: public safety challenge on our hand. That's rather profound, And

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Speaker 1: I mean a couple of weeks away from the election,

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Speaker 1: isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, I mean it's so different than you heard

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Speaker 2: the Marror last week when he was asked the question

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Speaker 2: do you still support or do you still have confidence

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Speaker 2: in the chief, and he goes, all options are on

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Speaker 2: the table, everything's on the table. We're not really sure

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Speaker 2: we're going to do well. Then as this progresses, he goes, look,

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Speaker 2: this isn't my decision. This is a city manager's decision.

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Speaker 2: It's not mine. So, I mean, it doesn't surprise me

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Speaker 2: that there's absolutely no transparency. There's no truth in any

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Speaker 2: of this. But there's one thing that's for certain. The

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Speaker 2: way that chief has been treated is wrong. If you

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Speaker 2: were going to do this, why would you have her

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Speaker 2: fly back across the country after she just flew out

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Speaker 2: to represent this police department and as soon as she

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Speaker 2: lands you tell her to fly back and then you

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Speaker 2: do nothing and you just sit on this for days.

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Speaker 2: You know, if they wanted her gone, we can agree

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Speaker 2: to disagree about that. However, you don't treat somebody this way.

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Speaker 2: That's the matter at hand. Here is the way that

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Speaker 2: she's been treated. It's absolutely wrong.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to tea leave read into this.

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Speaker 1: They've got a meeting with her lawyer at ten o'clock

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Speaker 1: at the Finny Law firm, so we'll find out what

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Speaker 1: the story is behind this. But do you expect that

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Speaker 1: she will be terminated and that her actually asked to resign,

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Speaker 1: and that along with that resignation will go a check

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Speaker 1: written from the City of Cincinnati into Police Chiefdiji's pocket.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when they say that there's gonna be

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Speaker 2: an investigation, I said it to me, it's more like

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Speaker 2: we're going to negotiate further. Yeah, they're gonna put her

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Speaker 2: on administrative leave, so she's still employed, so she can't

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Speaker 2: go out and say what she wants to say, what's

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Speaker 2: going on, And that's gonna kind of buy that city

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Speaker 2: more time to say you're gonna take this agreement or

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Speaker 2: we're gonna or we're gonna fire you.

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Speaker 1: Huh So you expect a gag order to go along

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Speaker 1: with this.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's not a gag order because she's still an employee.

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Speaker 2: She's just on administrative leave. Right. As long as you're

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Speaker 2: administrative leave, you still have to follow the orders because

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Speaker 2: if you don't, then they'll fire you, and then they

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Speaker 2: may have a reason.

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Speaker 1: Then for cause. I see that would create a four

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Speaker 1: cause motive to terminate, right, huh So, right now we're

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Speaker 1: just kind of well, I guess they're just waiting around

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Speaker 1: till ten o'clock and see what her lawyer has to say.

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Speaker 1: I doubt he's going to step in that potential downside

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Speaker 1: risk for Police Chief Dji though, now.

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Speaker 2: You know if she hired, you know, one of the

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Speaker 2: one of the best employment attorneys that are around here.

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Speaker 2: So I certainly expect that they will do the right

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Speaker 2: thing and that there probably won't be a lot said.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that's that's yet to be seen. We'll see

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Speaker 2: at ten o'clock this morning.

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Speaker 1: Well, if we have the as the city manager place

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Speaker 1: to these serious public safety challenges, I guess I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of wondering because you and I are in agreement of

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Speaker 1: our perception that police Chief Theji is being fired for

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Speaker 1: following the will of the Purvol had been, So that

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Speaker 1: seems odd. But it seems also kind of odd that

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Speaker 1: Provol and presumably Manager Long were the ones that were

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Speaker 1: in a position to accept Governor de Winne's offer of

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Speaker 1: a full month every month worth of Ahouse State patrol

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Speaker 1: when they only took two or four days originally two

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Speaker 1: and only four days. I mean that is their decision,

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Speaker 1: not Police Chiefdiji's decision, right, so we have them to

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Speaker 1: blame for not taking up the offer of additional resources.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're you're absolutely correct. You know, she doesn't get

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Speaker 2: to make that decision, you know, that's that's the city manager,

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Speaker 2: that's the mayor's decision, and they chose not to take,

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Speaker 2: you know, everything that the highest state patrol was offering.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, it was free. I've never seen

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Speaker 2: in my life, you know, politicians that are offered something

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Speaker 2: that's free and they didn't take it.

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Speaker 1: Well, the Butler County sheriffs making millions and millions of

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Speaker 1: dollars off of merely housing ice of illegal immigrants that

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Speaker 1: ice picked up. We're not doing that in Hamilton County.

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Speaker 1: So we've turned had an opportunity to make millions of

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Speaker 1: dollars along those lines as well. So this doesn't surprise me. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: I had to connect that, Ken, I wants your hold

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Speaker 1: wrong because Christopher Smith had had an idea this whole thing,

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Speaker 1: this politization of the police chief's office brought about by

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Speaker 1: Issue five. He had an idea, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: bounce it off your head to see if you think

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Speaker 1: it would better this situation at seven fifteen right now

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Speaker 1: more with Ken Cober First USA installation, the Great no

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Speaker 1: Brainer product.

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Speaker 2: It is Station.

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Speaker 1: Sevent nineteen fifty bof Kerr City Talk Station Tuesday, Bron

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Speaker 1: Thomas with FOP President Ken Kober. We're talking about well

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Speaker 1: management instructure in the city of Cincinnati. Of course, a

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Speaker 1: police chief DJ on paid leave now having been placed

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Speaker 1: on paid leave yesterday, we have the interim chief, Adam Henney,

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Speaker 1: who just recently got promoted to assistant chief, now running

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Speaker 1: the police department. Ken Kober commented on that and the

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Speaker 1: reasons of the things that came about and brought about

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Speaker 1: Police chief Fiji's I'll call it termination. I think we

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Speaker 1: can expect that or maybe retirement. But city manager Cheryl

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Speaker 1: Long and per Vall decided this. They have the authority

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Speaker 1: to hire and fire the chief, the same thing with

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Speaker 1: the fire chief. Christopher Smithman suggested that, well, at least

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Speaker 1: you know, prior to Issue five being passed, that you

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Speaker 1: on the police department, the men and women in uniform

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Speaker 1: decided who the chief was going to be with an

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Speaker 1: internal vote. Your vote or your recommendation was ignored post

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Speaker 1: issue five. That's in the hands of Perwall and Long.

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Speaker 1: They ignored your recommendation on who you wanted to hire.

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Speaker 1: They hired Thiji anyway, and so we see that it's

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Speaker 1: in political hands. Same thing with the fire chief. Now

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Speaker 1: Cheryl Long fired Michael Washington as the chief. He's now

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Speaker 1: sued the City of Cincinnati. Most recently, Judge Stephanie Bowman

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Speaker 1: determined that Well city manager Cheryl Long didn't give him

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Speaker 1: his due process before firing in March of twenty three,

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Speaker 1: violating his pre termination due process rates. He's now seeking

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Speaker 1: punitive damages back paying loss benefits, and it looks like

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Speaker 1: he's going to win. So Christopher Smithment's solution is this

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Speaker 1: is not to go back to the pre issue five days,

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Speaker 1: but maybe a new way amending the rules to require

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Speaker 1: unanimous approval of all members of council and the mayor

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Speaker 1: and the manager. I guess for hiring and firing of

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Speaker 1: the various chiefs chief the fire department or the police department.

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Speaker 1: Would that solve any perceived problems with the structure? Ken,

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Speaker 1: Is it a step in the right direction or do

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Speaker 1: you have a different solution?

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Speaker 2: No? I think Christopher is spot on, you know, but

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Speaker 2: issue five, it's less about who they hire and it's

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Speaker 2: how they fire them. So previously, if you five, like

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Speaker 2: Chief Striker when he was here, he was he fell

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Speaker 2: under the FFPS colective Bargaining Agreement, so he was able

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Speaker 2: to work absolutely independently of the city council, the mayor

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Speaker 2: of the city manager. They could try to tell him

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Speaker 2: what they do and his response could be, I'm not

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Speaker 2: doing it. I'm doing what I think is law enforcement

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Speaker 2: professionals best for this police department. If you don't like it,

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry about your luck, you know. And currently now

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Speaker 2: we have this system under Issue five that it basically

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Speaker 2: gives a city manager the authority, the sole authority, to

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Speaker 2: terminate the police chief or the fire chief, and it's

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Speaker 2: just not working. We've we've seen that, you know, we

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Speaker 2: saw with James Craig. He was here for two years

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Speaker 2: after Chief Striker retired, and you know, he pushed back

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Speaker 2: to city ball at the time, and they didn't like that.

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Speaker 2: So the end result was, Okay, at the end of

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Speaker 2: your two years, you're out. We'll find somebody else. And

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Speaker 2: that's that's what's going to continue to happen. So I

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Speaker 2: do agree with Christopher that you have to give the

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Speaker 2: police chief some protection from being thrown into a political

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Speaker 2: circus that we're seeing right now, and maybe that's the

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Speaker 2: that's the solution is that your city council has to unanimously,

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Speaker 2: uh you know, vote to fire the chief, because I

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Speaker 2: could tell you right now there are plenty of city

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Speaker 2: council members that support the chief. I've had these conversations

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Speaker 2: with them. They all believe the same thing that that

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Speaker 2: I've talked about that cops feel is that she's being

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Speaker 2: absolutely railroaded for political purposes. And all it would take

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Speaker 2: is one council member to stand up and say we're

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Speaker 2: not doing this, otherwise she'd be here right now.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you characterize a current of council on

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Speaker 1: those lines and that you have had conversation with the

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Speaker 1: current council, because, as Christopher was explaining that, I'm thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, Purvol's probably got enough sway and influence over

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Speaker 1: the unanimously one Democrat council that he could get his

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Speaker 1: way regardless of the way the rules are set up.

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Speaker 1: But you're telling me, you know that that's not the case.

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Speaker 1: Right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had conversations with several council members that you know,

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Speaker 2: of course have not said much publicly, of course not,

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Speaker 2: but have said listen, this isn't right, this isn't right.

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Speaker 2: So they're trying they were trying to do things behind

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Speaker 2: the scenes to try to get this resolved, you know,

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Speaker 2: but ultimately, if they had their feet to the fire

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Speaker 2: and they had to stand there and say, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I agree, we should fire, or there are council members

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Speaker 2: that just wouldn't do it, So the system has to change.

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Speaker 2: The days of the chief being under the ffp's collective

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Speaker 2: bargaining agreement. I recognize it though that would never ever

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Speaker 2: happen in this climate. But I do think there's opportunity

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Speaker 2: for change, and there's opportunity. You elect, the city elects

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Speaker 2: these council members, trust them collectively to do the right thing.

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Speaker 2: You take this out of the hands of one person

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Speaker 2: and allow collectively for people to decide the fate of

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Speaker 2: a police chief. This is a person that is in

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Speaker 2: charge of the police department for the city. It shouldn't

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Speaker 2: just be one person making this decision.

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Speaker 1: Now, I know it's just been it's been a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks brewing leading up to yesterday. How do you

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Speaker 1: have any comments on or perceptions of how this particular

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Speaker 1: component of dealing with police chief DJ has impacted morale

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Speaker 1: the City of s Insint Police department.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean the cops are absolutely frustrated. They

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Speaker 2: don't know who's in charge until so last night we

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Speaker 2: finally found out, Okay, this is who's going to be

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Speaker 2: in charge. But absolutely because cops are walking around thinking

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Speaker 2: they'll do this to the chief, what are they going

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Speaker 2: to do to me? And I think the long term

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Speaker 2: effects of this, and I talked to a council member

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Speaker 2: yesterday about this, long term effects of this are going

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Speaker 2: to be recruitment and retention. The very things that they

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Speaker 2: were trying to focus on to get people on the door,

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Speaker 2: to keep people here are things that are going to

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Speaker 2: be certainly negatively affected by this.

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Speaker 1: This is terrible marketing, right Ken.

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Speaker 2: Let's put it this way. If they were in charge

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Speaker 2: of marketing for a private business, they'd have been out

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Speaker 2: of business a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: FOP President, Ken Cover, I'm sure you're a popular guy

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Speaker 1: today getting this out there. I'm sure you're going to

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Speaker 1: be well watching the ten o'clock news conference with Tiji

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Speaker 1: and her lawyer, and you know you're always welcome here

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Speaker 1: in the morning show. A show, sir, I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: your willingness to discuss these important issues with my listeners.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, Brian, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Have a great day, my friend. Seven twenty five care

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Speaker 1: City talks to you