1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Right now at Mulllegger on Twitter thanks to share Facts 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Credit Union. I am thrilled that you are here, thanks 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: to Chad Rendell for pinchitting yesterday. If you had a 4 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: free day weekend, hopefully you enjoyed it. Weeks off to 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: a good start. Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic is here. 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: Later on, we'll get to Elie Dela Cruz and Tito 7 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: Francona and the Reds offense, and we'll talk to Miami 8 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: and Kent State point shaving with our guys Stuart W. 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: Penrose from Manila Law Group, and of course thoughts on 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,480 Speaker 1: the college football Playoff national championship tilt last night won 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: by the Indiana Hoosiers. If you're an IU fan and 12 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: IU grad, congratulations, it's the coolest story in sports history. 13 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: We'll get to all of that a little bit later on, 14 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: but Paul's here from the Athletic and the Growler podcast. 15 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: How is it going? 16 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 2: It's going great. 17 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,319 Speaker 3: Do you know when I was in college I did 18 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 3: a thesis on point shaving in college basketball? 19 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: Really yeah. 20 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 3: It was sparked because I thought that the leading scorer 21 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: for OU's basketball team was shaving points and I wanted 22 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 3: to try I expose it. Yeah, that was not the 23 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 3: case as far as I could tell, although I have 24 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 3: my theories. But I did learn a lot about the 25 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: history of point shaving and Headache Smith and Kentucky from 26 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 3: back in the fifties. Of course, now you can fill 27 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 3: ten times as many books just in the last couple 28 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 3: of years compared to what there was then. But if 29 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 3: you want to know any more, I've got I've got 30 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 3: lots of background. 31 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: Here is the thesis available? Is it published? Is it 32 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 1: something I can access? I mean, I hope did you 33 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 1: mention your Did you mention the OU player by name? 34 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 3: I would like not to say his name, but if 35 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 3: you look up the leading scores from two thousand and 36 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 3: one to two thousand and three at Ohi University, you 37 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 3: could probably figure out. 38 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: Wow, so you could be my point shaving guy. I mean, 39 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: is that the beat you want? 40 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: At this point? I might take it understood, But yeah, no, 41 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: I'm here for whatever you need a. 42 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: Little bit later on, I'm gonna I'm going to tell 43 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: you the move. I wish the Bengals weren't a position 44 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: to make little tease that is set. No not, But 45 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: in that instance, maybe I peaked your interest. 46 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: Yes, I am interested in that. 47 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: Perhaps the audiences as well. There's a lot of stuff. 48 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: We got a lot to get to. Yah, let's start 49 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: with the striking contrast, which is something we talked about 50 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: a little bit on your podcast this morning. So the 51 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: Buffalo Bills they got Josh Allen. Josh Allen's an MVP quarterback. 52 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: Josh Allen's an A lister, Josh Allen's a star. He 53 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,679 Speaker 1: is one of the faces of the league. The Buffalo 54 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: Bills haven't won a Super Bowl with him, so they 55 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: said to the coach, thanks for everything, deuces seeya. The 56 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: Baltimore Ravens have a two time MVP quarterback, Lamar Jackson 57 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: bona fide star right this year. Maybe not himself, perhaps 58 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: more physically compromised than he was letting on. He did 59 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: miss games, but Lamar Jackson is a star. He was 60 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: paired with a coach who was quickly hired by the 61 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: New York Giants, a guy who might be in the 62 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame one day. But the Baltimore Ravens said, 63 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: we can't wait anymore. See you, John Harball. Thanks enjoy 64 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: New Jersey. The Cincinnati Bengals have a quarterback like that. 65 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: Granted not been an MVP, but he has played in 66 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 1: a Super Bowl. But he's been an MVP finalist twice, 67 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: two time comeback Player of the Year, bona fide star 68 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: has a claim to the title of best quarterback in 69 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: the sport. And the Cincinnati Bengals said, we're cool, Zach, 70 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: You're good. You two are together. That contrast to me 71 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: is striking absolutely. 72 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: I mean, it's been interesting. 73 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 3: You have the AFC had this this thing going with 74 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 3: Mahomes and Reed and Zach, Taylor and Burrow and Harbaugh 75 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 3: and Jackson and of course Allan and McDermott. I mean, 76 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 3: for the longest time these were that wasn't changing. And 77 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 3: I even right before at the end of this season, 78 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 3: we were talking about how interesting is when you look 79 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: at the coaches about how these quarterbacks have kept their 80 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 3: coaches connections going. Really, whatever's been going on there, there's 81 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 3: no doubt about it. What is happening now in the 82 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 3: upheaval in the league and the ten open jobs and 83 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 3: the high profile coaches that have left now with franchise quarterbacks, 84 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 3: it only does what everything seems to be doing. The 85 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 3: theme right now is okay, you want to be your 86 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 3: team continuity. 87 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: That's the thing. This is it. 88 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 3: That pressure could not be more on everything to happen 89 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 3: this year because you're just not going to get now. 90 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 3: Who knows, it's the Bengals, so whatever, it could go 91 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 3: on forever, but like it does, it does really feel 92 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 3: like this time like this is it. I mean, this 93 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,479 Speaker 3: is your It's either you can do it or you're 94 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 3: going to be like the rest of these And the difference, 95 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 3: I will say when you analyze what's happening here one 96 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: coming off a year where you didn't have Burrow for 97 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 3: the whole time, so who knows what it looks like. 98 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: But that said, I. 99 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: Think your job ends up being so much about managing 100 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 3: your quarterback relationship and managing up This job has since 101 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 3: Marvin Lewis showed up day one been about managing and 102 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 3: helping everything get as much done as you can and 103 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 3: deal with all of that. I think Zach Taylor has 104 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: a good relationship obviously with ownership to still be here 105 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 3: at this point. Yeah, and obviously with Joe Burrow to 106 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 3: still be here at this point. I think those are 107 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,600 Speaker 3: the two things that John Harbaugh and Sean McDermott did 108 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 3: not have and it cost them now for whatever reason. 109 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 3: How much should that matter. We can all debate that, 110 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 3: but if you're asking me the difference in this particular moment, 111 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 3: I think that got those guys and at some point, yes, 112 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 3: you have to win. They were there, you know, longer 113 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 3: than Zach's been here. But it's understood at this point. 114 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 3: I mean, you only get so many shots when you 115 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 3: have the franchise quarterback, when you have him in full 116 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 3: But yeah, that man, the pile. It just keeps keeping 117 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,119 Speaker 3: everything that's happening, everything that has happened in recent years, 118 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 3: the conjecture from Joe, the movement in the league, a 119 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 3: division that now will have all new head coaches around 120 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 3: the AFC and upheaval. It's just Zach Taylor and Andy 121 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 3: Reid are the only guys that have really been around here. 122 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,799 Speaker 3: All of the continuity that they're selling and bringing back, 123 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 3: and the support statement. Everything that has happened since the 124 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 3: season has ended has pointed. 125 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: To extreme pressure cooker. 126 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 2: Of twenty twenty six season. 127 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 3: And this is it, man, because otherwise you're going to 128 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 3: go the same way that the rest of the league 129 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 3: is going. 130 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: We will see ultimately what the result of the coaching 131 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: searches in the three AFC North Cities are. But is 132 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: there a world because I think there is where the 133 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: Bengals are considered AFC North favorites before the season. 134 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, well because who I mean, Pittsburgh is not a 135 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 3: good job. No, Pittsburgh is a great job theoretically in 136 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 3: a you can keep this job for a long time. 137 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: But all of those coaches had almost immediate success. So 138 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: when I say, all, let's talk about Kawer and Tomlin, 139 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: they lived off the instant success they had. 140 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 3: Yes, that's part of it. And also when you take 141 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 3: that job, I think you're the reason that it was time. 142 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: There is it's hard reset time in Pittsburgh. They got 143 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 3: to figure out a way to say the rosters old, 144 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 3: the quarterback situation needs to get a long term solution. 145 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 3: If you're if you're cutting ties, if the Tomlin move 146 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 3: happens now, that is you know, let's reset the game. Okay, 147 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 3: And so that's not a great job. How is a 148 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 3: new per new coach gonna mesh with Lamar Jackson and 149 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: both like, I don't know, it's obviously not going to 150 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: be Cleveland that you're gonna be so so yeah, I 151 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 3: mean I don't to this in this moment. They should 152 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 3: be yes, this should be. It is setting up for 153 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 3: them to make their run. I mean, it's this is 154 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 3: this is what you ask for, and so yeah, can 155 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 3: you should they? Yes, they should be favorites to win 156 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 3: the AFC North from the get go, which does what 157 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 3: only adds more pressure. Again, like all of this, all 158 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: of this is that it's all this one pie. This 159 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 3: is what it all is. It's like, okay, twenty twenty 160 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: six or all bets are off with absolutely everything happening internally. 161 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,119 Speaker 1: I was watching people fight on the internet, and I'm 162 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: as I've gotten older, I'm more of a watch people 163 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: fight than I am jump into the fray I enjoy sometimes, 164 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: not that often, but I was watching people fight about 165 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: Mike Tomlin, fighting over whether or not he would would 166 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: take the Bengals job if it comes open next year. 167 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 1: And the one person was making the argument that there's 168 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: no way that Mike Tomlin would want to work for 169 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: the Brown family. And I thought about that, and I said, 170 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, these are two family run franchises. And when 171 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: I read stuff out of Pittsburgh, or when I listen 172 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: to shows like this out of Pittsburgh, it sounds like 173 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: the Bengals are being talked about or I read some 174 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: of the same things I read about the Bengals that 175 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 1: outdated facilities and mom and pop franchise and stubborn and 176 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: obstinate and set in their ways and frugal to a fault. 177 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 1: This is not a conversation about Mike tomlell. But you 178 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: talked about the Steelers job. I believe this. Say what 179 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: you want about the prestige of that franchise and what 180 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: the Steelers historically have accomplished. Those two franchises have more 181 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: in common at the ownership level than I think people realize. 182 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 3: The biggest thing that differentiates the two of them is 183 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 3: the history. 184 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: That's it. 185 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, at this point, if you want to 186 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 3: look back in the last fifteen years, the last ten years, 187 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 3: in the recent history, the franchises have operated similarly. They've 188 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 3: had similar problems. Mike Tomlin is going through the same 189 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 3: thing now that Marvin Lewis went through. I mean, it's 190 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: very very similar paths. They have a similar ownership group 191 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 3: that is adjusting and trying to figure out how to 192 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 3: act and survive and sustain in an NFL world that 193 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 3: is changing what ownership looks like around them. For better 194 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 3: or for worse right, and I just I think there's 195 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 3: adjustments in that. I think there is a lot more similarities. 196 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: I think you're exactly right, but the history and the 197 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 3: respect that comes with what they have been and and 198 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 3: I think a way that they go about certain things, 199 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 3: but they do things that they this is the Steeler 200 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 3: way that I unequivocally do not agree with in terms 201 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: of the money they spend to older players, right, the 202 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 3: heavy lean into like just defense all the time and 203 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 3: not realizing it's an offensive league, and in the churning 204 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 3: of the quarterback situation. Like, there's a lot of stuff 205 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 3: that they do that they have always done that I 206 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 3: don't necessarily agree with the same way. They would be 207 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 3: things that you would look at the way the Bengals 208 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 3: do it that that the normal NFL franchise is not 209 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 3: going to agree with. In that respect, I think you're right, 210 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 3: Like they operate in distinct kind of unique ways, their 211 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 3: own unique ways, but unique ways to the bigger NFL landscape. 212 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: Watching people fight on the internet, if you do it 213 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: in small doses, can bring an amount of joy to 214 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: you that I think is rare when you when you 215 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 1: when you go online. 216 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think I like it most when you 217 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 3: do jump in that is kind of yes, no, because 218 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 3: you it's clearly reluctantly, but it's clear also that you 219 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 3: have a joke so good you just have to get 220 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 3: it off. Yeah, you know, you're like, I just I 221 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 3: you know, it's not in your best interest. Like every 222 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 3: time I see you do it, I'm like, he knows 223 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 3: he shouldn't do this right now. Yes, but you're like, 224 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 3: but the joke's too good. Yeah, get passed on the joke. 225 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 3: And that's what I respect about you. When you got 226 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 3: the good joke, you're willing to get it off no 227 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 3: matter what the fallout could be. 228 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: We have finally found something you respect about me. So, 229 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: Dan Pitcher is a valued member of the Cincinnati Bengals, 230 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: yet they may let him leave for the same job. 231 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: This doesn't make any sense. We'll talk about it when 232 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: we come back. Paul Danner Junior's here from The Athletic 233 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: and the Growler Podcast. Follow him at Paul Danner Junior. 234 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: The latest edition of The Growler Podcast released just a 235 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: short while ago. Seventeen minutes after three Paul's here till four, 236 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: We are here toll six on SPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati 237 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: Sports Station twenty two minutes after three o'clock. This is 238 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: ESPN fifteen thirty on Moeger. Thanks for listening. Paul Dayner 239 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: Junior is here from The Athletic and the Growler podcast. 240 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:19,679 Speaker 1: He has written about the list of possible cat casualties, 241 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: and we're going to get to that here in a bit. 242 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: Go read it at the Athletic dot com. Let's spend 243 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: some time on Dan Pitcher. Okay, you're big on Dan Pitcher, man. 244 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: You think Dan Pitcher should be interviewed by all these 245 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: teams who need a head coach was interviewed by one. Yeah, 246 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 1: you're a big Dan Pitcher guy, right, you are? 247 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 2: I feel I should be. I know where it's going. 248 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. The Bengals like Dan Pitcher. Yes, they value Dan Pitcher. 249 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: I think Dan Pitcher is key to their success. They 250 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: view him as an important part of the organization. So 251 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: why then would they let him leave for a lateral move? 252 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,079 Speaker 1: Interviewing with the Buccaneers to be their offensive coordinator. He's 253 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: the offensive coordinat now I know the answer is, well, 254 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: he wants to call plays? Cool, why not just let 255 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: him call plays here? Then? 256 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 3: So I don't think it's that simple. Oh, I don't 257 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 3: think it's as simple to say he wants to call plays, Okay, 258 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,120 Speaker 3: I mean, we've seen plenty of coaches get hired that 259 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 3: didn't call plays. I think, and this is me. Dan 260 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 3: has never said this to me, but this is my 261 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 3: observation on the way things are going. I can only 262 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 3: imagine a frustration with the last two head coaching cycles 263 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 3: for him. I think there has always been a shroud 264 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 3: of discredit around coaches underneath Joe Burrow or are in 265 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 3: the orbit of Joe Burrow. Burrow's doing this right, coaches 266 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 3: don't get much credit. I haven't gotten much credit for 267 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 3: anything here, maybe rightfully, so I don't know. I'm not 268 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 3: really here to differentiate that perception is reality. 269 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: Does Brian Callahan's lack of success in Tennessee don't help? 270 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: It certainly doesn't help, but it doesn't run to the degree 271 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: that I fear it might. 272 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 3: Maybe some, But I think I think there is a 273 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 3: degree Dan wants to be a head coach, as anyone 274 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 3: in his position would sure, and I think there is 275 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 3: some degree of maybe getting out from the shadow of 276 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 3: Joe Burrow into a different offense, into a different atmosphere, 277 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: and showing off things there could be helpful to your career, 278 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 3: and Zach Taylor and this staff would say, we don't 279 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 3: want to stop you from seeing what your you know, 280 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 3: progress in your career can be look into it, right, 281 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 3: especially with the acknowledgment that if he did, they have 282 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 3: a easy one to one potentially available in Frank Callahan. 283 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 3: But that's my point is I don't think they want 284 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 3: to be restrictive of what Dan feels like is maybe 285 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 3: the best path for him to get to his career 286 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 3: goal of telling you, no, you're here now, you can't. 287 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 3: I don't want you going anywhere else. You're here, don't 288 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 3: try to find what you might think is best for you. 289 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: And by the way, there's I'm sure a lot of 290 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: organizations that would operate that way, perhaps this one in the. 291 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 2: Past, one has in the past. 292 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 3: I think in certain situations, in certain times, if you 293 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 3: feel like any one of these things are true, you 294 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 3: can't advance when you're in Cincinnati because of everything. You 295 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 3: can't advance because you don't call plays. You can't advance 296 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 3: because of the shadow of Joe Burrow. You can't advance 297 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 3: because you just can't stay in that position for too 298 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: many years, Like the League turns over for a reason, 299 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 3: you either get promoter or fired. 300 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:42,360 Speaker 1: Right. 301 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 3: If you're in there too long, it becomes why are 302 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 3: you in there that long? 303 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? 304 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 3: Okay, So I think there is a not wanting to 305 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 3: let him feel like he doesn't have a chance to advance. 306 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 3: Go see what you can do, make see if that 307 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 3: is a better job for you, right, and then come 308 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 3: back and let's see what what you think is the 309 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 3: final decision for you. 310 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: Right. 311 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 3: I don't think they want to feel like he should 312 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 3: feel restricted being in this position. I think that's part 313 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 3: of it. So it's more than just I want to 314 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 3: call plays. Obviously that's gonna be a portion of this 315 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 3: because he doesn't, and that's you know, if we're gonna 316 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 3: call him the non play calling, oh see whatever. But 317 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 3: I think it's about career growth and the path to 318 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 3: what he wants most and not wanting to restrict that 319 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 3: in somebody that works for you is a big part 320 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 3: of this. 321 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: So Dan Pictuer, if he leaves, obviously they could just 322 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: bring back Brian Callahan, which sounds great, But what if 323 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: Brian Callahan gets a job somewhere else and Dan Pittrick 324 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: gets a job somewhere else. Yeah, Well, that's then what's playing. 325 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a terrible scenario. They would figure that out. 326 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 3: There's a list, I mean, there's always you always have 327 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 3: a list that you compile in every off season and 328 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 3: some downtime pete network of people that you know they're 329 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 3: not I mean, yeah, the timing. 330 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: Is tricky here. 331 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, in terms of what there's but the timing is 332 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 3: tri tricky for everybody in the entire league right now 333 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 3: with this many jobs and this many staffs being put 334 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 3: together and disassembled and trying to get read like this 335 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 3: is something that we haven't seen in the league in 336 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 3: a little while where you're gonna have this much movement. 337 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 3: So yeah, everybody's sitting in here trying to watch the 338 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 3: timing of things. I think Brian Callahan would like to 339 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 3: come back here as a number one landing spot. I 340 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 3: think he's interested in a lot of different things, but 341 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 3: this one certainly makes the most sense for Zach Taylor. 342 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 3: It certainly makes the most sense in a world where 343 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 3: they are so they're just they're so pot committed to 344 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 3: continuity at this point, like to use poker terms like 345 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 3: this is it like they're in there's no getting out 346 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 3: of the continuity train. 347 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 2: Now, if that's what they're doing, that's their angle. 348 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 3: So you're not gonna like go away from that in 349 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 3: the offensive coordinator position, assuming you can you can make 350 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 3: the timing work. That is, you know, the I guess 351 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,320 Speaker 3: the tricky part of that. And if Brian gets a 352 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 3: better opportunity, which very well could happen, but you know, 353 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 3: they certainly hope that it doesn't. I think there's a 354 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 3: thought that this is the best opportunity for the Bengals 355 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 3: and for him if it came to that at all. 356 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: Sure, but is there any validity to the idea that, Okay, 357 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: if you want to escape Joe Burrow's very large shadow, 358 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: for lack of a better way of putting it, call 359 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: the plays next year, bring out something in this quarterback, 360 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: in this offense that maybe we haven't been able to 361 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: tap into nearly as much, and the credit will come. 362 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: No, he did that? 363 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? What else? 364 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 3: What happened in twenty twenty four? Dan Pitcher came in, 365 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 3: took over Jamar Chase won a triple crown. They were 366 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 3: doing things they hadn't done before. They evolved in a 367 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 3: nice way, right, And what did he get? 368 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 2: No head coach interview? 369 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: It wasn't calling place. People love to fixate on the 370 00:18:59,040 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: call and place thing. 371 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 2: I mean, that's fine, is it something? 372 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 3: I don't think that's the only I think that's how 373 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 3: everybody gets hired. 374 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 2: I mean, there's not like. 375 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,159 Speaker 1: It's silly for us as fans to fixate on that. 376 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: I think. 377 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: So when it comes to any coach, you know, because 378 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: you've heard it with Eric b Enemy for instance, right, well, 379 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: it doesn't call plays right, and so like the public 380 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: perception is. 381 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 3: That works against I think it's a piece of the pie. 382 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 3: I do not think it's anywhere near the most important part. 383 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 3: I think being able to lead. I think understanding how 384 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: to connect with people. I think understanding how to properly 385 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 3: build a culture, what winning actually looks like, like all 386 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 3: of that stuff. You know, it's sort of like I mean, 387 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,320 Speaker 3: to me, it's kind of like when you crush the 388 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 3: baseball manager for the decisions they make with their bullpen. 389 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 3: And I don't mean that as a joking way, but 390 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: I want to see you It's like, so much of 391 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 3: being a baseball manager is just managing the personalities through 392 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 3: one hundred and sixty two games and getting people liking 393 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 3: coming to work and all that stuff. Right, But what's 394 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 3: most seen by fans and complained about is that happens 395 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 3: in game decision making that blows up in their face. 396 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 3: Right now, that is a part of your job, but 397 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 3: it is not the biggest part of your job. And 398 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 3: I think in the way that they do it here, 399 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 3: I it's not like he has no say in the 400 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 3: calling of plays and the execution of all of that. 401 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 3: But yeah, again, that's part. But I understand that. Yeah, 402 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 3: you're would you love if that was Also, if you're 403 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 3: an owner and you're looking at your head coach candidates, 404 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 3: you'd love to have every single one of those thirty 405 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,360 Speaker 3: boxes checked if one of them doesn't call plays. You know, 406 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 3: maybe the box is bigger for some than others, but 407 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 3: it's one of many boxes you would love. Everybody would 408 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: love their resume to have every box checked. 409 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 2: They don't all. 410 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 3: Okay, maybe that's one that he feels like he needs. 411 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 3: Maybe the shadow of Joe Burrow is what he feels 412 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 3: like he needs. Maybe he just wants to know what's 413 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:51,239 Speaker 3: out there right. 414 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: Maybe he just won't to see if he can make 415 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: a little more money. Maybe he likes the sun. Okay, 416 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 2: Like I don't know, there's lots of reasons. Maybe he 417 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 2: too is sick of losing. Maybe there's lots of reasons 418 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 2: why you would consider looking into your other options elsewhere. 419 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 2: And I think it's fine that they would sit there 420 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 2: and say, go look into what you can get and I. 421 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeahs on a human level, I I greatly appreciate that, 422 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: especially in a year where there's a lot of a 423 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,880 Speaker 1: lot of pressure on this staff to win. I can 424 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: appreciate them saying, look, if what's best for you is 425 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: taking a lateral move, so to speak, because you think 426 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: that's best for you, We're not going to get in 427 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 1: your way. Like, I think that's cool as hell. 428 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 3: I mean, Dave Canalis Liam Couhn to the last two 429 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 3: successful coordinators in Tampa became head coaches after one year. 430 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 3: Dan might have been able to get that job before 431 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 3: and instead right, and so maybe there's a regret in 432 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 3: there with Tampa or other places. Let's see, I mean, 433 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 3: let's see how that all plays out. I'm just saying, 434 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 3: like I understand and looking at that gig. Yeah, if 435 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 3: you want to be a head coach and saying that 436 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 3: could be a nice step there for me, that's not lateral. 437 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: So what you do is you let him go coach 438 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: the Bucks and then when the Bengals go eight to 439 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: nine next year, Dan Pitcher come back. I mean you're 440 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: do you not think that ultimate continuity moved? I mean 441 00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: that would certainly. 442 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 2: Be on the table. 443 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: I mean, who knows, right, I just I don't necessarily 444 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,120 Speaker 1: believe the Bengals are going eight to nine next year. 445 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: Before anybody gets mad at me, well but I mean 446 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 1: it's on the table. 447 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 2: Sure is there a number that's not? 448 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not. 449 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: It's like this year like a high number. Maybe. 450 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,679 Speaker 1: So they went six and eleven. That's as bad as 451 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: it's ever gonna get. They're never gonna lose clip that 452 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: tarian clip it. They will never do. This year was awful. 453 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: This is as crappy, as miserable, as unfunny Bengals season 454 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: as has happened in my life. They still stumble their 455 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 1: way to six wins. They will never with Joe in 456 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: the Joe Burrow era. This is my bold hot take. 457 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: If you want to go, they'll never win fewer than six. 458 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 2: As long as he's healthy all year. 459 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 3: You're accounting for Joe Burrow not missing more than a month. 460 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: Okay, if he doesn't play a game, you know it's 461 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: preseason injury, and if Joe Burrow plays half the games, 462 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: they will still win five. I'm sorry, they will win 463 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: more than five. Yeah, it's not a very high bar 464 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: to clear. 465 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 3: No, I don't see many worlds where if Joe Burrow 466 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 3: plays during a season that they go under five hundred 467 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 3: or less in games where he's the starter and finishes like. 468 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 2: I'm with you on that. I just you know, I 469 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:43,479 Speaker 2: don't know. 470 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: So there are numbers, in my opinion, that are off 471 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: the table, the ones below six. 472 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't take those off. No, I mean because 473 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 3: I we don't know that Joe will be healthy three 474 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 3: of us six years he has any inability to handle 475 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 3: his injury. I get injuries when they have happened. It 476 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 3: is twenty six away from four o'clock. So you have 477 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: your list of guys the Bengals could move on from, 478 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 3: and I'm okay if they don't move. 479 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: On from any of them. But there's one that I 480 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: wish they were in a position to. We'll talk about 481 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: him when we come back. Sports headlines as well. Paul 482 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: Danner Junior is with us till four o'clock. This is 483 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,639 Speaker 1: ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Sports headlines are a 484 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: service of Kelsey Chevrolet Home of Lifetime powertrain protection and 485 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: guarantee credit approval from their family to yours for life 486 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: kelseyshev dot Com. Tonight, the nationally ranked and undefeated Miami 487 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: RedHawks hit the road to battle Kent State. The Golden 488 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,479 Speaker 1: Flashes have one loss in MAC play this year. They 489 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: lost by two to Central Michigan. Travis Steel's team looking 490 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: for a season opening twentieth consecutive victory. Tip Off is 491 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: at seven o'clock tonight. What else do we have? We 492 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: have a college basketball in the area. The Indiana Hoosiers 493 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,920 Speaker 1: visit third rated Michigan, and Ohio State will host Minnesota 494 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: Hockey this evening. The Columbus Blue Jackets, who have won 495 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: four consecutive games, skate against the Ottawa Senators. If the 496 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: Jackets lose, the rules say they have to fire the 497 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: head coach because they fire head coaches like every other week. 498 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growler podcast 499 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: is here. I wish we could have podcast the last 500 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: conversation we were having off air. 501 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 2: No, that's okay, we probably don't need to do that. 502 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 3: By the way, I can tell you how long. Miami's 503 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,239 Speaker 3: unbeaten streak is gonna last. Okay, they're gonna have their 504 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 3: heartbroken on Valentine's game. They have their heartbroken on Valentine's Day. 505 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 3: Wow goes into Oxford. 506 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 2: Probably not. They're actually not. 507 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: Very good this year. No, we've got more point shaving. 508 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 3: It's possible they might need to bring back the leading 509 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 3: scorer from two thousand and one through three. 510 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: You you did the list of possible cap casualties, possible 511 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: cat cuts, and on those list of players, there was 512 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: no one that I was like dying to move on from. 513 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 1: There were players that if they moved on from, I 514 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: would find replaceable. TJ. Slayton's one of them, right. I 515 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: view him if he's on the team next year, okay. 516 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: And if they said we're done, okay, Oron Burks, if 517 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,439 Speaker 1: the Bengals said we can find somebody better than Oron Burks, 518 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: I'd go cool. And if he was on the team 519 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: next season, that's fine too. The one that's interesting to 520 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 1: me is Orlando Brown. And this is why I wish 521 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: the Bengals had a better defense, because I would love 522 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: to look at him and go, you know what, we're 523 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: going to get out in front of a drop off 524 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: and because he wasn't awesome this past year. But at 525 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: the end of the season, he said, Okay, given all 526 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: the other stuff they have to fix, let's just leave 527 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: well Enough alone at left tackle and hopefully we get 528 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: through the season with the same offensive line, bring back 529 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: Dalton Reisner, hopefully Orlando Brown plays at the same level 530 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: he did in twenty five twenty six, and you live 531 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: with it and then you move on. I wish they 532 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: could get out in front of that, but they they're 533 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: not equipped to because of all the other issues they 534 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: have to fix. That to me is one of the part. 535 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: What's one of the dominoes when you have a defense 536 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: that's that bad that you can't look at Orlando Brown 537 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: and say, you know what, we're gonna prioritize left tackle. 538 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 1: Maybe do it a year early, move on from them, 539 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 1: sign up a suitable replacement, and use your first round 540 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: draft choice on that position. You can't do that because 541 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: of how bad they are on defense. Yeah, that's the challenge. 542 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 1: And I've been you know, going through a very very close. 543 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 3: To the mock off season sheet Well it's coming. 544 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 2: Oh, it's very close. 545 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 3: But that's as I've gone through it and been like 546 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: doing my versions of it. That's the one I come 547 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 3: back to a lot of like, you just can't add on. 548 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 2: You can't. 549 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 3: You gotta know that you would be able to get better, 550 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 3: and then you also could be taking the chance of 551 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,680 Speaker 3: playing a draft pick over there. There's just a lot 552 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 3: of variables. Whereas it's it's team. Million dollars against cap 553 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 3: is a big number. But he's also you know, when 554 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 3: you talk about tackle money, it's not that pick. No, 555 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 3: I mean he's he's he's not paid average annual value 556 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 3: in the top twenty. 557 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 2: Theymore. I mean it's and. 558 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 3: That's probably a fine level that he plays at. Like 559 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,479 Speaker 3: I think, I think it's fine. They do need to 560 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 3: be getting out in front of it in thinking about 561 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 3: the future, and my take on this has been offensive 562 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 3: tackle should be on the table in round one. I'm 563 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 3: not saying you would do it, but it certainly should 564 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 3: be on the table. There's very few that should be 565 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 3: off the table at that point. But somewhere in your 566 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 3: first three picks, you need to come away with a 567 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 3: tackle that could potentially be your tackle of the future. 568 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 3: I know that's scary because the ghost of Cedric awayHe 569 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 3: and Jake Fisher but like, but you have to do that, Like, 570 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 3: you just have to do that. But he's got to 571 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 3: be able to play if needed this year. Yeah, well 572 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 3: that's the point. It's your Look, anybody you pick in 573 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 3: the first three rounds should be able to be a 574 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 3: backup and be able to play if called upon. That's 575 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 3: what a first, second, or third round pick needs to be. 576 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 3: Now you're gonna be with tackle, Sure, there's chances that 577 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 3: you take in that, but I mean, if they're worth 578 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 3: that pick, they should be able to take on that 579 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 3: responsibility of being OT three okay and so, and potentially 580 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,040 Speaker 3: be more than that going forward. There's I mean, there's 581 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 3: plenty of tackles that that play and have played on 582 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:23,239 Speaker 3: good teams and had success. So that to me is 583 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 3: what the approach has to be. And that's not even 584 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: speaking about Orlando's level of play at all. If you 585 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 3: have any tackle entering the last year of his contract, 586 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 3: you better know what's going on next year. That position 587 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: is too hard to flip on the fly to all 588 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 3: of a sudden be able to just be like next year, say, 589 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 3: oh what are we going to do here? No, they 590 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 3: have to be preemptive about that regardless. So to me, 591 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 3: that's on the table. Yes, I agree. You would love 592 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 3: to be in a position where if that was your 593 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 3: only issue and you had extra money, you could go 594 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 3: get a different guy or get younger, or there's not 595 00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 3: a ton out there. 596 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 2: But like because it's. 597 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 3: There's not a lot of offensive man, right that teams 598 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 3: are that are really good. The team's just letting me 599 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 3: out there on the open market. So it's scarce anyway, 600 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 3: But there are names that you could find an answer there. 601 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: I just feel like with him, and I hope this 602 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 1: isn't the case. And by the way, he's not even 603 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: thirty yet, he gets talked about like he's, you know, 604 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: thirty four years old. I think he turns thirty during 605 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: camp next year, so. 606 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 3: And keeping him around could be an option. But I 607 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 3: think you'd want to see him play better this year 608 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 3: than he did last year. And and so my fear is. 609 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: I could see a scenario where next season Orlando Brown 610 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: plays poorly, just sure the way it's trending. Sure, and 611 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: when he does, you go, man. I wish they could 612 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: have avoided this, but they can't. Like they can't. I 613 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: don't want whatever's behind Doort number two at left tackle, 614 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: but I wish the team was good enough to go, 615 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: you know what, everything else is pretty set. Let's let's 616 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: definitively use the tenth overall pick on a left tackle, 617 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: or let's find a suitable replacement and free agency to 618 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: pair with the tenth overall pick. And they just, to me, 619 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: can't do that because of all the other stuff they've 620 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 1: got to fix. And so what you're hoping for is 621 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: that Orlando Brunt plays at the level that he did 622 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: this year, and hopefully that happens, and if so, I 623 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: think we'll be okay with it. But I could see 624 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: a world where he doesn't, and you go, man, now 625 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: it's a liability. Yeah. 626 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 3: Well, And I think one of the more interesting free 627 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 3: agency things to look at is what is their aggression 628 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,520 Speaker 3: level at their third tackle position, Like, what is it 629 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 3: a replacement because they need a swing tackle, so it's 630 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 3: some you know, bargain two three million dollar guy whatever, journeyman, 631 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 3: or is it a little bit more of an aggressive 632 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 3: push into a higher salary range for somebody who could 633 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 3: be there in case things don't go well with with 634 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 3: Orlando Brown and try to take than feeling pigeonholed to 635 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 3: get an offensive tackle in the first three round or 636 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 3: first or second round or whatever, and play curious to 637 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 3: see how that plays out if they view that as 638 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,479 Speaker 3: something that they should prioritize. My gut says that they won't, 639 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 3: but it's certainly possible. 640 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. I just as I was going down the list, 641 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: I was wrestling with do I really want Orlando Brown 642 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: on the team next year? And I've arrived at the 643 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: do I do that? I do do again? I just 644 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,480 Speaker 1: wish the team was better that I can kind of 645 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: afford to go. You know what, Let's let's get out 646 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: in front of this now, because I think ideally, if 647 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: your organization is humming on all cylinders, that's what you do. 648 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: You move on from players before they have that sudden 649 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: drop off. And I fear by mid November, we're gonna go, 650 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: Holy hell, this is what the sudden drop off looks like. 651 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: Maybe that doesn't happen. Maybe he has a great year 652 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: in him, and that would be unsurprising as well. But 653 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 1: when you look at the offense, it's Riisner, it's maybe 654 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: a third wide receiver, and it's something at left tackle. 655 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: I wish you could make that a bigger priory, but 656 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: you can't, cause the defense. You may have heard not 657 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: very good. 658 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I's there's no doubt. But I mean, if you're 659 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 3: talking about using pick ten or forty one on a 660 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 3: tackle and you get to November and it's not very good, 661 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 3: that's the point where you make a change there anyway, 662 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 3: with a with a top pick. 663 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: When you see a tweet from Joe Burrow, do you 664 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: assume he's been hacked? 665 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 2: Yes? 666 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: First thought you assume you try to figure out if 667 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: it's really him. Uh, well, where does your mind go 668 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: when you see that Joe Burrow has decided to jump in? Like? 669 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: I enjoy Twitter, I really do. I use it to 670 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: amuse myself and to promote myself. I enjoy Twitter. I 671 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,520 Speaker 1: don't necessarily know that. I understand after that app has 672 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: been around for seventeen years, why somebody would suddenly decide, 673 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,440 Speaker 1: you know what I'm gonna do. Today's the day, Today's 674 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: the day I'm gonna jump in. And so I am. 675 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:57,160 Speaker 1: I am fascinated by the mindset here is this. You know, 676 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: Joe Burrow only has something to lose on Twitter. There's 677 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: no thing for him to gain. It's Joe Burrow, right, 678 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: trying to gain the favor of the officials that I guess, 679 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 1: so so when I'm looking at the timeline and I 680 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: see a tweet from Joe Burrow. There are very few 681 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: times there's an audible reaction for me based on a 682 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: tweet that and it wasn't what he tweeted about. It 683 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: was like only hell, he remembered his password. 684 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 2: Yes, which is maybe the most impressive part. And that 685 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 2: photographics true, Yes, remember all that stuff. No, do you 686 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 2: think he's a two. 687 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: Way authentication guy? 688 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:29,839 Speaker 2: Yeah? 689 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: I think he okay, cares about security. Okay, if I 690 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: was Joe Burrow, I wouldn't have. 691 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 3: Twit three four way authentication. There should be I think 692 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,759 Speaker 3: probably more. Yeah, No, I think so. I think here's 693 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 3: the thing. I mean, I looked down and I did 694 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 3: the first hacked. Sure, right, gotta be And then it's like, okay, 695 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 3: maybe not what's going on? 696 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 2: Then I was just staring. I was kind of squinting. 697 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 3: I have a we have a rule, like, let's let's 698 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 3: try not to have the phones out at the dinner table, 699 00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 3: and normally I don't, but like, if I get a 700 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 3: bunch of buzz, I'm like, I'm just a quick peek. 701 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 3: And then I did the I was literally just leaning down, 702 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 3: staring to the point of my wife being like, what's wrong? 703 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 2: What are you staring at? 704 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: I was? 705 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 2: I think Joe Burrow tweeted. I'm not totally sure why 706 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 2: or how, but yes, uh that was. 707 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 3: That was fairly stunning. I mean, I'm gonna go. I'm 708 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 3: gonna go with trying to get on the officials nice side. 709 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 2: I like it. 710 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: What do you believe is more newsworthy a Joe Burrow 711 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: tweet or a Nick Lache tweet. 712 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,800 Speaker 2: Don't do this? 713 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: This has been your thing. Don't do this has been 714 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 1: your thing. 715 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 2: Do you think a Joe Burrow tweet? Yes? I mean, 716 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 2: come on, are you I know what you're trying to 717 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 2: do here? 718 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: Do you disagree? 719 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 3: You're trying to elicit reaction and you're gonna clip me 720 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 3: on this camera right here, and it's gonna. 721 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: Get You've already done that for your own podcast. 722 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 2: Yes, I don't want to do it anymore. I just 723 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 2: don't want to do it anymore. 724 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 1: Would you get in trouble? 725 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 2: No? No, no, I didn't get in trouble. I just don't. 726 00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 3: I don't want to. I don't want leche Hive after me. 727 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 3: Apparent in twenty twenty six, clear this was not about Nick. 728 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 3: You shoudn't make it abundantly clear about people making Nick 729 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 3: tweets news. Yes, it's not news. How Joe Burrow anything 730 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 3: he does or says his news fair. There is a 731 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 3: lache hive like there's only rat like, I get it. 732 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 3: If you tweeted blind people, Okay, I don't even know. 733 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 2: What that is? 734 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,439 Speaker 1: There are I don't is that? Is that a show 735 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: that he's on. Yeah, that's the show that he's on. Yes, 736 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: So you you went viral for and what you're viral Okay, 737 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 1: what your take was basically is just because nickolasche tweets 738 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: about the Bengals doesn't mean it's news. And there are 739 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: outlets who treated that like news. Yes, and your commentary 740 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: was about those outlets. Yeah right, yeah, let's be better. 741 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,360 Speaker 1: Let's be better as a news outlet. 742 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 2: It's clooney or nobody. 743 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: Fine, So, but that was your point. What I what 744 00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: I am skeptical of is the suggestion that there are 745 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,359 Speaker 1: people so passionate about Nick Lachet. Nothing against Nick, who 746 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: is a very nice man. Uh has had a very 747 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: good career, good for him, lives a charm life, good 748 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: for him, But there are people so attached to him 749 00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 1: that they came after you. 750 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 3: I mean, as much as anybody comes after anybody on Twitter, 751 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 3: it's hard to tell. I was being come after a 752 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,360 Speaker 3: lot at that point. Yeah, so it kind of blended 753 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 3: in I think in the woodwork. But yeah, no, yeah, 754 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 3: there was some of there's some of that. But I 755 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 3: mean it's okay, okay, it's okay, it's it's fine. Everybody 756 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 3: has their things and didn't maybe they didn't agree. 757 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 2: With my thoughts. 758 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure there are folks, namely at the publications 759 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: you were referencing, that didn't agree with you to get 760 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:38,839 Speaker 1: some pushback from them. 761 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 2: No, a media, they can't feel media few, they can't feel. 762 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: Good about it. Oh, come on, I was hoping for 763 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: a media feud. 764 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 2: I mean I don't. I don't want one. 765 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,920 Speaker 1: No I do, I mean I don't want to be 766 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: in it. But as again, as an observer of chaos 767 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 1: an absurdity, yes, a good media feud would be awesome. 768 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, we always has something real to feud over. 769 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: No, that's who wants to do that? All right? Well, 770 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: has the leche or what do they call themselves? 771 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know that. 772 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,240 Speaker 3: There were just some people that were that that showed 773 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 3: up and just felt like I didn't need this right. 774 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: Now, That's all. Okay, I get I understand that. 775 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 2: I don't know they had names. 776 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: They were Willingship probably is. I just don't know, all right, 777 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: I said, I think there's something about this that you're 778 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,319 Speaker 1: not telling me. I don't think there is Nick's brother 779 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: come after you. He's in town, isn't he. 780 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 3: It's just when people show up and you're mentions and 781 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 3: be like, you know, at the defense of Nickoliche that's all. 782 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 1: But did they understand you weren't coming after Nick Lache? 783 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 3: People never There's been a lot of misunderstanding. I feel 784 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 3: like happening, That's all, And I can't. I can't do 785 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,240 Speaker 3: anything about that. Okay, what other people have misunderstood things 786 00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 3: that have been said? 787 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 2: I can't. I'm just letting you know what happened. You asked. 788 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 2: I brought this up. I knew this is gonna happen. 789 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: I'm enjoying you see them uncomfortable. 790 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 2: I am uncomfortable. It makes me. You can go to 791 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 2: one of your breaks. 792 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: Paul Dan Junior, you could read his work at the 793 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: Athletic dot com. When does the mock the mock Off 794 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:08,960 Speaker 1: seasons out of us Thursday soon? 795 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, hopefully hopefully spreadsheet. It's currently just going through the 796 00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:17,359 Speaker 3: last edits in the different levels of I've done the spreadsheet. 797 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 3: I don't know that you're gonna love it this year. Really, 798 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,759 Speaker 3: some years you feel tortured, very yes, and I think 799 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,280 Speaker 3: it might be closer to that this year than really. Yeah, 800 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 3: I was surprised because you want to do like I want. 801 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:31,839 Speaker 2: I wanted to do more. 802 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: So my overhaul is not as possible as I. 803 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 3: Don't know, maybe it is. Maybe maybe you will come 804 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 3: away feeling differently. I my prediction, if I'm handicapping this 805 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 3: is that you'll come away and say that was frustrating. Okay, 806 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 3: that's my prediction. We're going to talk about a couple 807 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 3: of times. Here's my request. I don't know how this 808 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,160 Speaker 3: works on the internet, but what for those who don't 809 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 3: know the mock off seasons a spreadsheet where you basically 810 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,880 Speaker 3: build the roster, cut players, add free agents, draft, you know, 811 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 3: you the roster when the geno stone drop down when 812 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 3: I click on it and I click cut could could that? 813 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 3: Could a sound be incorporated? Could it be like when 814 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 3: you send a congratulations text in like balloons and. 815 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 1: Fireworks go off? Yeah? You know that's not a cut. 816 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: That sound that you get when you send, well, it's 817 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: not a cut. I guess not sign it would be 818 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: not bringing them back. 819 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 3: I might have to create a whole separate dropdown. That's 820 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 3: just you have decided not to re sign Genostone. 821 00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,879 Speaker 1: When you send an email. At least for me, if 822 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,320 Speaker 1: I send an email on my phone use an outlook, 823 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: it sends a sound effect. Yeah, sometimes I will have 824 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: to send an email that I get a great amount 825 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,000 Speaker 1: of pleasure out of sending. I love that sound. Yes, 826 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: I want I love that sound, and I want that 827 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: to be on the spreadsheet when I decide to not 828 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: bring back Genostone. 829 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 3: Maybe I can call it. Maybe I can give it 830 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 3: like a name like the mow Egger non re signing, 831 00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 3: like you sponsored not re signing. Yes, you know Stone, sure, Moeger. 832 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 3: Decision to not re sign Genostone is what I'll put 833 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 3: it there in the drop down. 834 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: Ass So that's okay with that. Absolutely, that's later this week, 835 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,359 Speaker 1: all right. Paul Danner Jinorita's worked the Athletic dot Com. 836 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,239 Speaker 1: It was I thought it was outstanding. 837 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 2: I loved it. 838 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,879 Speaker 1: We got a lot of good stuff. Dan Pitcher play 839 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: calling Orlando Brown and Nicholas Chay. We can't beat it perfect, 840 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: just the way I drew it up. 841 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 2: Hopefully this is the last run for the nickolasche com It. 842 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: Will be, I promise. The Growler podcast available where you 843 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,319 Speaker 1: get your podcasts, including YouTube and follow Paul Paul. It 844 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: is four minutes away from four o'clock. This is esp 845 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,200 Speaker 1: at fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports station