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Speaker 1: This is a podcast from wor Here again is Larry

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Speaker 1: Menty with the WR Saturday Morning Show. What is the

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Speaker 1: future of Trump's tariffs after the Supreme Court ruled that

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Speaker 1: Trump did not have the power to impose them the

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Speaker 1: way he did. ABC Sarah Isker explains, good morning to you, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: good right, was really interesting when Donald Trump obviously was

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Speaker 1: upset and there's Scotus sitting right in front of him,

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Speaker 1: all the justices, well not all of them, five were missing,

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Speaker 1: but some of the justices sitting right in front of him.

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Speaker 1: What did you read out of that moment anything?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, the justices are really in that front

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Speaker 2: row seat. They're very close to the president, you know,

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Speaker 2: physically speaking, and when he comes down that aisle, he

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Speaker 2: can't help but walk in front of them, which he

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Speaker 2: did before starting the State of the Union, shook each

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Speaker 2: hand of the justice that was the Chief Justice Kagan,

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Speaker 2: Justice Kavanaugh, and j This.

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Speaker 3: Baron, so two three of those justices.

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Speaker 2: Rather voting to strike down his tariffs, only Justice Kavanaugh

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Speaker 2: in the group that voted to uphold them. He exchanged

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Speaker 2: pleasantries with them.

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Speaker 3: But it certainly didn't look all that warm.

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Speaker 2: But then the speech itself you know, I think.

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Speaker 3: We were potentially expecting fireworks given what he'd said at

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Speaker 3: his press conference, what he'd said on truth.

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Speaker 2: Social attacking the justices, that their families should be embarrassed

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Speaker 2: of them, that perhaps they're under the control of a

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Speaker 2: foreign government. Very mild criticism when he was actually standing

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Speaker 2: feet away from them that we've seen from Trump in

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Speaker 2: the past. Right, he can be a bit of a

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Speaker 2: keyboard warrior, and obviously he's going to try to re

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Speaker 2: implement many of the tariffs through different statutes, though those

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Speaker 2: seem to have some legal issues as well, but not

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Speaker 2: wanting to.

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Speaker 3: Take on the Supreme Court there in the State of

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Speaker 3: the Union.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, let me deal with this a little bit more

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Speaker 1: because I don't know if it was actually a boycott

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Speaker 1: of the State of the Union, but the fact that

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Speaker 1: five didn't show up, I see it, I think is significant.

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Speaker 1: Has that ever happened before?

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Speaker 2: Yes, In fact, it is rare these days to have

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Speaker 2: more than four justices at the State of the Union.

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Speaker 2: So these four, as I said, the Chief Kagan, Kavanaugh,

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Speaker 2: and Barrett, are kind of before institutionalist justices. They see

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Speaker 2: their jobs I think, less as a single justice and

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Speaker 2: more as a body of the Court. The other justices

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Speaker 2: haven't shown up in a long time. So these four

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Speaker 2: were the exact same four that came to the President's

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Speaker 2: joint session last time. And if you want to go

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Speaker 2: way back in the Bush administration, at one point only

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Speaker 2: poor Justice Brier showed up.

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Speaker 1: All right, So this is common. So people are reading

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Speaker 1: way too much into it because I've heard now over

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Speaker 1: and over again they didn't even all show up. They

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Speaker 1: didn't even all show up. But it's nothing, right, It's

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Speaker 1: just nothing. It's it's what happens.

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Speaker 2: I wish they would either all show up or you know,

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Speaker 2: the chief in Jily I would send a note that's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: you know, this doesn't really involve us, We're not coming anymore.

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Speaker 3: Yes, because I.

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Speaker 2: Do think that they are a single court. You know,

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Speaker 2: the court rules, not individual justices. And so I don't

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Speaker 2: love when there's you know, the sort of divide and

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Speaker 2: who shows up and who doesn't. But you have to

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Speaker 2: consider being a Supreme Court justice is a very cloistered life.

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Speaker 2: They kind of well, they don't.

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Speaker 3: Get out much and see the extroverts.

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Speaker 2: On the court. This is kind of their one shot

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Speaker 2: to you know, see other human beings.

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Speaker 1: So explain to us this ruling on the tariffs, because

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Speaker 1: there's so much noise about the ruling, both from both

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Speaker 1: from the arguments that you can read in the ruling

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Speaker 1: on either side, from Donald Trump and from the Democrats.

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Speaker 1: Explain what was ruled on, what should we take away

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Speaker 1: from it?

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Speaker 3: There were one hundred and seventy pages of opinions from

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Speaker 3: seven of the justices, but the good news is.

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Speaker 2: That the majority opinion, the actual holding of the court,

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Speaker 2: was only twenty one pages, and it was pretty straightforward.

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Speaker 2: It said President Trump has told us that he has

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Speaker 2: the authority from Congress to issue these tariffs through this

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Speaker 2: very old statute from the seventies called AIPA, the International

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Speaker 2: Emergency Powers Act, And we're reading that statute and it

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Speaker 2: just doesn't include this power. Congress did not clearly give

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Speaker 2: the president the power to set tariff rates based on

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Speaker 2: a national emergency. In this case, he was saying, the

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Speaker 2: national emergency was the trade imbalance and sentinel. And so

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Speaker 2: they're like, look, go to Congress, they are welcome to

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Speaker 2: give you this tariff power, but we don't think they

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Speaker 2: did it here. And let us know how that goes.

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Speaker 1: By Now, he seems to think that there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of workarounds around this rule, and he keeps citing

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Speaker 1: all these other statues are their workarounds.

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Speaker 2: Yes and no. So there are other statutes for Congress

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Speaker 2: very clearly delegates to the president the power to tariff.

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Speaker 2: I mean they use the.

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Speaker 3: Word, they say duties and tariffs and all, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, very clear delegations of power which were not in IIPA.

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Speaker 2: But they're limited in time, so you have one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty days, or they're limited in what you can

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Speaker 2: tariff steal stuff like that, like specific items to tariffs.

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Speaker 2: The outer problem is Trump has instituted his new tariffs through.

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Speaker 3: One of those time limited.

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Speaker 2: Ones, the one hundred and fifty day one. But in

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Speaker 2: that one you've not to have a showing that there's

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Speaker 2: a balance of payments problem, not just a trade and balance,

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Speaker 2: and the White House that actually acknowledged in their Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court brief that that statute would not apply right now.

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Speaker 3: So pretty much everyone agrees that these are unlawful.

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Speaker 2: Tariffs as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so when these one hundred and fifty days are up,

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Speaker 1: he's only option at this point, because he seems to

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Speaker 1: think he has another option. The only option at this

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Speaker 1: point is to go to Congress to get approval of

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Speaker 1: new tariffs.

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Speaker 2: Look, that's the good news. I hope that these presidents,

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Speaker 2: whether it's Biden with his student loan debt forgiveness or

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Speaker 2: the bat Seen mandate, or the carbon emissions case, or

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Speaker 2: hear Trump with tariffs or banning bump stocks. The message

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Speaker 2: from the Court over and over again is look, mister President,

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Speaker 2: you are welcome to have these policies. You just have

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Speaker 2: to go through Congress, because Congress is what makes stable

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Speaker 2: law over time for the country. You are not a legislature,

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Speaker 2: and we can't keep whipsawing the American people every four years.

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Speaker 2: And so it's, you know, pretty ironic that this happens

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Speaker 2: and the president once again tries to act without going

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Speaker 2: to Congress, same as what Joe Biden did on student

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Speaker 2: loan depth forgiveness. But at some point, surely a president

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Speaker 2: will actually want his policies to be in place.

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Speaker 1: Well, I always enjoy this time. It's like a masterclass

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Speaker 1: in the Supreme Court. I really appreciated. Sarah Esker, ABC

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Speaker 1: News contributor Washington with Us every Wednesday at nine oh five.

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Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Sarah.

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Speaker 2: This has been a podcast from wor