1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:01,800 Speaker 1: Tough. Monday, December fifteenth. 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 2: It is tough. 3 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:05,280 Speaker 3: We just got a message from one of our guest 4 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 3: family members. We just went through this with our son 5 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 3: unfortunately passed away due to a fentanyl overdose addiction kicked 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 3: in when he was fifteen. Could not keep them in 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 3: our circle to protect our remaining family. And she writes 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 3: something very accurate. She says, it's absolutely horrifying, emotionally debilitating 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 3: as a parent. There isn't a word for this level 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 3: of devastation, Amen, because all the words seem so hollow 11 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 3: when you think about what happened to the Reiner family. 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,919 Speaker 3: Of course, the news that Rob and Michelle Reiner stabbed 13 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 3: death killed by their son Nick, who had been in 14 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 3: public about his mental illness and substance abuse issues through 15 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 3: the years. 16 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 2: That began he said when he was fifteen. 17 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,319 Speaker 1: So a long history is substance abuse, and that can 18 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: be incredibly bad, not just obviously for behavioral reasons, but 19 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 1: just brain chemistry itself. Joining us to talk about this 20 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: is Jessica Steinmann of No Matter What Recovery in Los Angeles, 21 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: here in town to talk about some of these issues. 22 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: And Jessica, first of all, thanks for taking time. 23 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: For us today. 24 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 4: Yes, thank you for having me. 25 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: Let's discuss I mean, we know the specifics of this 26 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: thing are going to be kind of off limits because 27 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: you don't know Nick and Rob, etc. But the issues 28 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 1: surrounding adult children who are struggling with mental illness and 29 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: sometimes addiction. On top of that, what can family do? 30 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: What resources are available to somebody. 31 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 4: Dealing with this, Well, you know, it's a complicated thing 32 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 4: to look at, and obviously addiction gets a big spotlight 33 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 4: when things like this can happen, and the positives that 34 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 4: we get to at least talk about addiction and mental health. 35 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 4: You know, with families, family addiction is a family disease 36 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 4: and what that means. That's a phrase that we use 37 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 4: a lot in the recovery world. It affects everyone who's 38 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 4: involved with someone who struggles with mental health and addiction. 39 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 4: So families being contributing to people's therapy, getting involved with 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,519 Speaker 4: people's therapy or work if they're in a recovery program 41 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 4: and a rehab that's really important. But also families need 42 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 4: to learn how to get help for themselves by speaking 43 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 4: their own individual therapy and setting boundaries with someone with 44 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 4: mental health and addiction. And that's going to be tough 45 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 4: on a family dynamic as well. 46 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is one of the things. Take care of yourself. 47 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: I know that's a big thing for alan On is 48 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 3: to you know definitely, you know, you can only control 49 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 3: so much, which is really nothing what's going on with 50 00:02:58,120 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 3: other people. 51 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: But that just I feel like that's really tough. It's 52 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: really hard. 53 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 3: It's one thing if it's a spouse or something that 54 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 3: has an addiction issue, But when it's your child, how 55 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 3: does that complicate matters in terms of helping yourself when 56 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 3: you're obsessed and you know, biologically obsessed with protecting this person. 57 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 4: That's a great question. You know, we no matter what recovery, 58 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 4: we have a family group that we have weekly for 59 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 4: families and loved ones. And that's a question that comes 60 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 4: up all the time. How do you tell me not 61 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 4: to care or how do you tell me not to 62 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 4: be involved? This is my child, you know, I'm from 63 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 4: the moment they were born, I'm going to worry about them. 64 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 4: I'm going to be scared for them. And and the 65 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 4: thing is is that it's about knowing what you're able 66 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 4: to control and fix or help with and what you can't. 67 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 4: And unfortunately, with addiction, when someone has an addiction taking 68 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 4: over their lives, taking over their brains, they won't listen. 69 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 4: They're not going to change just because a parent or 70 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 4: a loved one is saying, please stop or go to 71 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 4: this rehab. And so there are limitations that a parent 72 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 4: can put in place. So do I tell parents to 73 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 4: cut off people completely. No, not necessarily, because we want 74 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 4: them to be able to get help. So, for instance, 75 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 4: if someone's under the age of twenty six, let them 76 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 4: stay on your insurance plan and try and get help 77 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 4: with rehab or treatment or therapy, possibly contributing to a 78 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 4: cell phone plan, so at least they have a cell 79 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 4: phone to try and get help. But financially, they're going 80 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 4: to be some boundaries, right, because we want to make 81 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 4: sure that we're not financially contributing for someone to be 82 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 4: able to purchase the drugs or purchase things that are 83 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 4: going to be unhealthy for them. So it's a back 84 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 4: and forth of how you can protect them but protect 85 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 4: them with limitations. And that's why support groups and therapy 86 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 4: and guidance from specialists are going to be really helpful 87 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,799 Speaker 4: with learning what boundaries those are. 88 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: But outside of that, there's not really a lot that 89 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: can be done right. I mean legally, you're not going 90 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: to be able to force anybody into treatment, force anybody 91 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: into rehab, force anybody into therapy. 92 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 4: And I think that's part of a parent's struggle and 93 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 4: the problem is that you want to be able to 94 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 4: say no, you have to go do this and it's 95 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 4: what's best for you. Go now. And someone over the 96 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 4: age of eighteen can leave when they want, doesn't have 97 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 4: to listen, can stop contact. So it's aligning a dance. 98 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 4: It's a dance of how do I keep them in 99 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 4: touch with me, make sure they're okay, but also not 100 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 4: enable them And so it's showing love and support without 101 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 4: having to have some kind of authority over them, and 102 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 4: again letting people try and help the best they can 103 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 4: with rehab and specialists we know at treatment centers like 104 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 4: no matter what, how to help them where we're going 105 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 4: to be able to to guide them, staying in touch 106 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 4: with them if they were to relapse, having their location 107 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 4: on your phone, do it at least make sure they're safe. 108 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 4: A parent maybe shouldn't do that, but a treatment center can, 109 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 4: and being able to have the other people assist. 110 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 3: It seems like I think you said dance Yeah, a 111 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 3: constant balancing act from day to day at times in 112 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,279 Speaker 3: terms of well, when you're dealing with somebody in the 113 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 3: throes of addiction or mental health, you kind of never 114 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 3: know what you're going to get, and every day could 115 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 3: be different in terms of what your kid needs in 116 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 3: that specific space or that situation, or that day could 117 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 3: be very different what they need in a week from 118 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 3: now or a month from now. Is it just constant 119 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 3: recalibration of the situation involving, like you said, the entire family. 120 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think what's really important. Recalibrate is a 121 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 4: great way to look at it. But also, you know, 122 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 4: being open and flexible with what's going to come at you, 123 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 4: but not wavering. So the addict is going to especially 124 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 4: when they're in the throws of their addiction and possibly 125 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 4: not in any sense of recovery or off their medications 126 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 4: and things like that. You want to stand firm in 127 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 4: what kind of boundaries and needs you may have as 128 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 4: a family or you have as a parent, because anything 129 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 4: can come at you and shift. But as long as 130 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 4: you can stay consistent, that's going to and actually throttle 131 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 4: the addict. They're actually not used to someone staying focused 132 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 4: and consistent and grounded in a decision like I'm only 133 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 4: willing to do X, Y and Z for you. So 134 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 4: because again, when an addict is in the throes of addiction, 135 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 4: they're going to manipulate, strategize, do whatever they can to 136 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 4: try and get what they need. And what they need 137 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 4: might be a drug. What they need might be money 138 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 4: to go get that drug or to go have that addiction. 139 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 4: So when a parent or a loved one is talked 140 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 4: into or manipulated to give in a little bit, then 141 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 4: the addict's going to think that they can maneuver and 142 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 4: get whatever they want when they want. So it's really 143 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 4: about staying grounded and staying consistent, and staying as a 144 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 4: united front as a whole family. So again there's also 145 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 4: no splitting between family members, which can happen. 146 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 1: All of it sounds awful, you probably, I mean, in 147 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: your line of work, you have to deal with some 148 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:42,719 Speaker 1: of the worst circumstances that people find themselves in. 149 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 4: Absolutely, I've unfortunately in my fields working in treatment centers 150 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 4: for many years, especially with the sentinel epidemic. I've I've 151 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 4: called family members myself, I've met the corners myself because 152 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 4: i have a firm belief i'd rob or a family 153 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 4: member here from a loving person like a therapist or 154 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 4: a clinical director who knew their child and who loved 155 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 4: their child than a corner or a police officer. So yes, 156 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 4: I've had to have those conversations with with loved ones, 157 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 4: and it doesn't It never gets easier. And it's hearing 158 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 4: about just the continuation of addiction, especially with drugs and 159 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 4: alcohol taking over just everywhere and in the news stories 160 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 4: in every city. It's it's devastating and how it can 161 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 4: affect families of devastating. 162 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: Sorry, Jessica, I just got in your experience, are there. 163 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 3: I'm assuming that you've talked with parents who know there 164 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 3: is a chance their child could be violent or could 165 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 3: have some sort of break and uh, and I bet 166 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 3: it doesn't even change the way that they are handling 167 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 3: the situation that the you know, the love for the 168 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 3: kid overrides shielding themselves from any kind of violent episode. 169 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: Unfortunately. 170 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that you. I think a lot of parents, 171 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 4: especially but all loved ones don't. They can't truly imagine 172 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 4: that that could happen to their child getting violent with 173 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 4: them or getting violent with someone. You want to you 174 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 4: want to think that that can't happen, but especially with 175 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 4: mental health issues, especially drug induced mental health issues, anything 176 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 4: is possible, and it's hard to know how someone will 177 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 4: act and react, and so parents and all loved ones 178 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 4: need to be cautious if they know, especially if you 179 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 4: know a loved one is maybe not on their medications 180 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 4: or have had relapses, you want to be careful because 181 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 4: we don't know how long they've been using the drug 182 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 4: or how long they've been without the medications, and absolutely 183 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 4: can turn violent or absolutely could turn into a psychotic 184 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 4: break of sorts, and that's hard to navigate, and so 185 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 4: you want to stay guarded and protected as best as possible. 186 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: Well, Jessica has some great insights into a tough story. 187 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for your time today. 188 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 4: Thank you very much. 189 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: You've got Jessica 190 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: Steinman there again, licensed marriage and family therapists from No 191 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: Matter What Recovery here in La