1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: He's Night Side with Dan Ray WBS Costin's new Radio. 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 2: Well, I think that by now virtually everybody understands that 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 2: the federal government is in what's called shutdown. Now we're 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 2: going to spend a little bit of time here talking 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 2: with a gentleman who knows a lot about the economy. 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: He he's someone who studied it for a long time 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: and certainly understands the concept of shutdown. 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 3: I think the word is somewhat misleading. 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 2: Joining us is Kurt Kauschman from a group called Americans 10 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: for Prosperity. 11 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 3: Kurt, Welcome to Night Side. How are you tonight, sir? 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 4: Hey Dan, I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean there's I think that shutdowns are 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 2: serious when the federal government shuts down, but I think 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: people need to understand it's you don't need to be 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: running out of the streets. Will eventually be okay, and 17 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: I think the goverm and we'll get back into business. 18 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 3: The question is how quickly give us a sense of. 19 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 2: Historically, this is not the first time the government has 20 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: been shut down and the reason for it, and you 21 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 2: know this better than I do. But the government runs 22 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 2: on a fiscal year that starts on October first, that 23 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: ends on September thirtieth. They changed that a few years ago, 24 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: so the crisis point always comes in late September, when 25 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 2: the Democrats and the Republicans respond and cont agree on 26 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 2: a budget going forward. Normally they have what's called a 27 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: continuing resolution. So let's I'm going to have you break 28 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: it down because you'll be able to explain it to 29 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: my audience better than I can. We've had a bunch 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: of shutdowns and they always come at this time of year. 31 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: It's almost like when October comes, we know the leaves 32 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: will fall and the World Series will start, and it's 33 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 2: a possibility the government will shut down. 34 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 3: Is it just a function. 35 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: Of the the calendar, the federal budget, you know, being 36 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: renewed every in theory, every October first. 37 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of different pieces here. First of all, yeah, 38 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 4: I do want to assure your listeners that this is 39 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 4: the lesser of the two brinksmanship budget issues. The other 40 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 4: one is the debt limit, and if the debt limit 41 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 4: weren't raised, then the federal government could actually default and 42 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 4: that could lead to a real cascade of problems. 43 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,839 Speaker 2: We'll talk about that and maybe as the hour goes 44 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 2: on here. But what you're talking about that is that 45 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: that sometimes where we have what's it, thirty seven trillion 46 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,239 Speaker 2: dollars in national debt accumulative budget deficits that we have run, 47 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 2: and I believe that our GDP is only about twenty 48 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 2: eight trillion dollars. 49 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 4: So yeah, I just want to reassure everyone that we're 50 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 4: talking about the lesser of the dangerous budget brinksmanship things. So, yeah, 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 4: shutdowns actually used to be a thing that happened in 52 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 4: the federal government, and then the Carter administration changed the game. 53 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 4: The Attorney General reinterpreted a law from eighteen eighty four, 54 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 4: you know, almost ninety years later, and yeah, actually, yeah, 55 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 4: ninety six years later. And since then we've had shutdowns. 56 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 4: We've had ten that have resulted in the furloughs of 57 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 4: federal employees. Well, I guess eleven, kind of the one 58 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 4: that started today, and so we're on eleventh shutdown. There 59 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 4: have been a couple of notably long ones. There was 60 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 4: a twenty one day shut down that affected some federal 61 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 4: employees during the Gingrich Clinton battles in the nineties. There 62 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 4: was the sixteen days shut down when Ted Cruz tried 63 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 4: to defund Obamacare in twenty thirteen, I was a congressional staffer. 64 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 4: Then I got furloughed, and then there was the thirty 65 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 4: five day shut down, the longest one ever in twenty 66 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 4: eighteen into twenty nineteen when President Trump wanted more money 67 00:03:56,400 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 4: for border wall construction and they couldn't get it through Congress. 68 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 4: So there is a shutdown. So this one, who knows 69 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 4: how long it'll lasts. About seventy two percent. Federal workers 70 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 4: are expected to continue working now. They can't get paid 71 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 4: until the new funding legislation is enacted, and a lot 72 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 4: of grants and reimbursements and payments to states, local governments 73 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 4: providers of various services, those can't happen until the funding 74 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 4: legislation is agreed to as well. So there are a 75 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 4: lot of things that are kind of frozen right now. 76 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 4: But there are also a lot of people that are 77 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 4: still working, especially for defense, homeland security and other things 78 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 4: protecting health and law enforcement, other things that this administration 79 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 4: is prioritized as well. 80 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: And the other thing which a lot of people get afraid, 81 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: Social Security checks, at least in the short term. 82 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 3: Will continue. 83 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 4: That's right. 84 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 2: The government will still be withholding money. If you get 85 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: a paycheck. You know, that's so so that the money 86 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: money still goes into the government. Uh, it's not as 87 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 2: if your next paycheck will will not have taxes withheld. 88 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 2: Medicare services will continue. The Democrats are saying that a 89 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: lot of this, uh, what they're upset about is draconian 90 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 2: cutbacks in Medicaid and and insurance plans. Can you simplify 91 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: that and and give us a fairly objective characterization of 92 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 2: what they're what their objection is, and then what what 93 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: the Republicans are claiming the Democrats want to do. I mean, 94 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 2: there's a lot of cross talk here obviously between these 95 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 2: two growth to these two groups, How would you frame 96 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: the issue in ways in which my audience can understand? 97 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 5: Oh? 98 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 4: Sure, So, Republicans in the House pass a fairly clean 99 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 4: continuing resolution. There's always like little bit of things that 100 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 4: need to be adjusted, and so they did that. It 101 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 4: came over to the Senate and almost all Republicans voted 102 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 4: for it, almost all Democrats voted against it. And Democrats 103 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 4: had their own alternative that is a shorter continuing resolution 104 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 4: into October and which would also repeal a number of 105 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 4: the provisions, the cost saving provisions, from the Reconciliation bill 106 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 4: that was enacted July fourth, And they also are proposing 107 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 4: that the expansion under President Biden's term of the Obamacare 108 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 4: tax credits would continue on permanently. And so there were 109 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 4: tax credits for people that bought insurance on the health 110 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 4: insurance on the exchanges, and then during the pandemic, Democrats 111 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 4: without any Republican votes, massively increased that and then extended 112 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 4: that through two separate bills that had only Democratic votes, 113 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 4: and so they want that to be permanent. It seems 114 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 4: like that's really what they're going after, and they expect 115 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 4: that the proposals to repeal things from you know, President 116 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 4: Trump's major policy priority from a few months ago, they 117 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 4: don't actually expect to get that. And the issue is 118 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 4: that the premiums that individuals who acquire health insurance on 119 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 4: the exchanges would go up pretty decently. It's I mean, 120 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: there's some exaggerations going on, but it's kind of like 121 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 4: the student loans, like where people didn't pay student loans 122 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 4: for a number of years and then they went back 123 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 4: to paying student loans, and so you could say, oh, 124 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 4: it's like an infinite increase in your student loan payments. 125 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 4: But it's really a return to normalcy. And even after 126 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 4: these payments, these expanded COVID credit payments would expire, taxpayers 127 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 4: would still be picking up about eighty percent of the 128 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 4: of the subsidy for these plans, and the beneficiaries will 129 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 4: only be paying twenty percent. But it's again, it's a 130 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 4: return to normalcy from a low base. So it seems dramatic, 131 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 4: but that's the situation. 132 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 5: Now. 133 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 2: There's one issue that's going back and forth where the 134 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: Republicans are claiming that the Democrats want Medicaid made a 135 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: value made available to people who are here illegally, and 136 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: that's what the Republicans are are saying. The Democrats are saying, no, 137 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: we're not in favor of that. So I don't understand 138 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 2: that conflict because they either are or they aren't. Who's 139 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 2: who's being more forthcoming on that issue? I'm sure there's 140 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 2: a couple of interpretations, But in your opinion, which which 141 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: is more which group is more forthcoming on that issue? 142 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 2: Is that just a bomb of you know, hand grenade 143 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: the Republicans are throwing over that has no basis, or 144 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 2: are the Democrats not telling the truth and there's some 145 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: form of. 146 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,319 Speaker 3: Assistance for illegals that they want, but. 147 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 2: It isn't precisely this Where does the truth lie on 148 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: that exchange of charges. 149 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, my understanding is that there is a provision of 150 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 4: federal law that says that no taxpayer benefits can go 151 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 4: to no federal taxpayer benefits can go to those who 152 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 4: are illegally present in this country. But what happens in 153 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 4: the Medicaid program again is my understanding is that states 154 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 4: are able to they call them the Medicaid money laundering scheme, 155 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 4: where they tax their medical providers in order to boost 156 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 4: the federal match, and then they rebate that to the hospitals. 157 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 4: But then there's another way that they're able to pretend 158 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 4: that they're using state only money, and so it is 159 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 4: sort of cross upsidized. But my understanding is that does 160 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 4: provide medical insurance benefits for illegal aliens. So let me 161 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 4: see between. 162 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 3: But let me try to simplify it a little bit. 163 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 3: I'll ask you this question. 164 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: My understanding is that anyone in America who shows up 165 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 2: an emergency room at any hospital America must be treated 166 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: irrespective of their ability to pay. 167 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 4: Correct, if you're there's not exactly under the emergency medical 168 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 4: treatment an Active Labor Act. Yeah, if you have an 169 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 4: acute injury or you're actively in labor, then you have 170 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 4: to be treated no matter who you are. But that 171 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily apply to all conditions. 172 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 3: So you mean, if somebody shows up and let's say 173 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 3: they I don't know, they have a bad chess cold, and. 174 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 2: They and and they're they're they're they're concerned that they 175 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 2: might have pneumonia, they have to have a level of 176 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: seriousness associated with that condition to be treated. They they 177 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 2: they could be turned away if it doesn't rise to 178 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: some level of acuity. 179 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 4: I don't know the details on that, but that's kind 180 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:51,359 Speaker 4: of generally my understanding. 181 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 2: Okay, my guest is Kurt Couchman. We're going to talk 182 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 2: a little bit more and we're going to entertain your 183 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 2: calls and questions. If you feel that you know all 184 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 2: the answers to what is going on in Washington, you're 185 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: lots more than I am. I don't know if you're 186 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: smarter than Kurt, But if you'd like to talk about 187 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: this stalemate between the two political parties, Democrats and Republicans, 188 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: it's always like that and it has resulted in a 189 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 2: government shutdown. I noticed on the local News today that 190 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: people who are here in Boston and had come from 191 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 2: far distances to visit the USS Constitution of parks. 192 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 3: Parks have been shut down, federal parks across the country. 193 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: That has always been one of the first things that appears. 194 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 2: But mail will still be delivered. So a lot of 195 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 2: your life is going to be very normal. But if 196 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: you have any question six one, seven, two, five, four 197 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 2: to ten thirty or six one, seven, nine three ten thirty. 198 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 2: That's why I have someone who knows a lot more 199 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: about this than I do, Kurt Kauschman, for he is 200 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 2: a senior fellow in Fiscal policy for Americans for Prosperity, 201 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: and he's given me all the straight answers that I 202 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 2: have hoped for. And I do really appreciate that. We'll 203 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 2: be back on Nightside more with calls and questions and comments, 204 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 2: and Kirkkauschman and you on Nightside right after this. As 205 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 2: I often say, we have great guests, we have great topics. 206 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 2: All we need is great callers or callers add water 207 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 2: and stir. 208 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 1: It's nice Eye with Dan Ray on Boston's News Radio. 209 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 2: With me is Kirk Couchman. He is a fiscal analyst 210 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:41,079 Speaker 2: for Americans for Prosperity. He's also written a book occurred. 211 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: I want to mention the book. If people are interested 212 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 2: in what you have to say, they can, I assume 213 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 2: order the book. It's relatively recently out, if I'm not 214 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: mistaken correct. 215 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. It just came out in late July 216 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 4: for the e book and a couple of weeks after 217 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 4: that for the physical book. It's called Fiscal Democracy in America. 218 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 4: How a balanced budget amendment can restore sound governance? 219 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 2: Fiscal Democracy in America, How a balanced budget amendment can 220 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: restore sound What was the last. 221 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 4: Part of that, found governance? 222 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 3: Sound governance? Okay, we will talk about that. 223 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: The New York Times has an interesting piece here in 224 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 2: terms of furloughs. For example, the department that has been 225 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 2: hit with the most high percentage of furloughs is the EPA, 226 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 2: the Environmental Protection Agency. The Times reporting nearly ninety percent 227 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 2: of their employees for thirteen thousand, of four hundred and 228 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 2: thirty two out of about fifteen eighty nine percent have 229 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 2: been laid off have been furloughed. Education Department eighty seven percent, 230 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 2: Commerce eighty one percent, Labor seventy six Housing and Urban Development, 231 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 2: seventy one percent. When you get down amongst the major departments, 232 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 2: Office of Personnel Management is ten percent, Homeland Security five percent, 233 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:14,439 Speaker 2: hardly a ripple venters affairs pretty much intact, ninety seven 234 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: percent of the employees are still going to be working, 235 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 2: three percent infur a load, and the Treasury Department, which 236 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 2: goes includes the IRS, only two percent have been furloughed. 237 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 2: So it's interesting the emphasis the departments that have the 238 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: higher share of furloughed employees. 239 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 3: In theory, when the government. 240 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 2: Reconstitutes itself and it gets back on track, those furloled 241 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: employees will receive back pay at least that's been the 242 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 2: tradition in the past. 243 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 3: Correct. 244 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, And actually the first law that was passed in 245 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, I think it was called the Government Employee 246 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 4: Fair Treatment Act or something like that. It guarantees back 247 00:14:56,400 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: pay for any furloughed federal employee. Does not apply to contractors, however, 248 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 4: and you know, it kind of reflects the fact that 249 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 4: all the percentages you're just talking about with the agencies, 250 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 4: that the practice of shutdowns gives enormous discretion to the 251 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 4: executive branch to determine what is essential, what is non essential. 252 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 4: That was the Carter administration's power grab, and some members 253 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 4: of Congress have been trying to reverse that. But I mean, 254 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 4: all of the laws that Congress has passed set up 255 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 4: all the different activities, including those that the administration is 256 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 4: now deeming non essential. So it's a little bit of 257 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 4: a weird thing to have that distinction against employees that 258 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 4: are all you know, authorized and you know, funded at 259 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 4: least up until the end of the fiscal year by Congress. 260 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 3: Is that what President Trump is referring to. 261 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 2: He's saying that if he said yesterday that if a 262 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: shutdown occurred, it would give him great flexibility in permanently 263 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: dismissing employees, and that they would be little recourse for 264 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 2: those employees. They would have little recourse that he basically 265 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 2: could make, you know, individual cuts or big cuts in 266 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 2: certain departments, and can do it now on his own 267 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 2: without the consent, advice, or cooperation of Congress. 268 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a parallel thing. They're talking about what's called 269 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 4: reductions in force, which means we don't need as many employees, 270 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 4: and so there is a different process for that. There's 271 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 4: a certain amount of notice you have to give people, 272 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 4: and you know, there's also a contention, and we don't 273 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 4: have good data to back it up, but there's a 274 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 4: contention that there's an awful lot of appropriations that this 275 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 4: administration has not spent that it was supposed to have 276 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 4: by the end of the fiscal year. And I'm not 277 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 4: sure exactly when we're going to get the data on that. 278 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 4: It might not be until the next president's budget request, 279 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:04,879 Speaker 4: which is due in February but is often late, so 280 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 4: I guess we'll have to see how that plays out 281 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 4: as well. 282 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is the SoundBite that he said this in 283 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: the Oval office. A reporter had asked him about it 284 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 2: seemed to be a friendly question, and he then really 285 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: didn't answer the question. But the reporter was asking about 286 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,880 Speaker 2: the unfavorability rating of the Democrats, and as the President 287 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 2: is his wont he went off and start talking about 288 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,680 Speaker 2: these cuts, which would be theoretically potentially irreversible cut number one. 289 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 6: Please Rob stay up the Democrat Party when they have 290 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 6: a thirty three percent favorability rating on average in recent 291 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 6: months and they're willing to shut down the government over 292 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 6: our healthcare. 293 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 3: Shutting it down. We're not shutting it down. 294 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 7: We don't want it to shut down because we have 295 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,679 Speaker 7: the greatest period of time ever. I tell you, we 296 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 7: have seventeen trillion dollars being invested. So the last person 297 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 7: that once they shut down is us. Now, with that 298 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 7: being said, we can do things during the shutdown that 299 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 7: are irreversible, that are bad for them and irreversible by them, 300 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 7: like cutting vast numbers of people out, cutting things that 301 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 7: they like, cutting programs that they like. 302 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 3: It sounds to me like that. 303 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 2: There could be a lot of jobs permanently eliminated. Am 304 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 2: I hearing that correctly? Or am I hearing it incorrectly? Yeah? 305 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 4: I mean he was pretty vague in that statement. There's 306 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 4: a limit to the things that can be done, but 307 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 4: there are also things that are going on right now. 308 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 4: I mean, the director of the White House Budget Office, 309 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 4: Russ Vote, was posting on X today about the green 310 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:45,200 Speaker 4: energy projects that are being paused and the New York 311 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 4: City transportation funds that are being frozen. So yeah, there's 312 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:52,880 Speaker 4: a lot that they can do. And part of this 313 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 4: is the negotiation in the posturing game, but some of 314 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 4: it is for real, and it's were a day into this. 315 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 4: We don't know how it's all going to shake out. 316 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 4: At some point, the judges may get involved and who 317 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 4: knows where they'll rule on different things. So you know, 318 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 4: we're going to learn a lot through this process. They're 319 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 4: going to push some boundaries and then we'll understand more 320 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 4: on the other side. 321 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,199 Speaker 2: Absolutely make My guest is that Kurt Couchman. We're going 322 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 2: to take a quick break for news. I got some 323 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 2: callers coming in. If you'd like to join the conversation. 324 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 2: Dial now six one seven, two four ten thirty six 325 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 2: one seven nine one ten thirty. As I often have said, 326 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 2: I am now saying we got great guests, we have 327 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 2: great topics. 328 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 3: Add callers and stir. We'll be back on night Side 329 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 3: right after. 330 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: This Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio. 331 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 2: My guest is Kurt Couchman. He is a fiscal analyst 332 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 2: with Fiscal Democracy in America Americans for Prosperity. He wrote 333 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 2: a book, Fiscal Democracy in America. How he balanced budget 334 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 2: Amendment can restore sound governess. Let's get some phone calls 335 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 2: for you, Kurt. Let's start it off with Matt in Franklin, Massachusetts. Matt, 336 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: you were first this hour with Kirk Couchman. 337 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 3: Right ahead. 338 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 8: Yeah, So what I'm having a tough time figuring out 339 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 8: with this whole shutdown is the Republicans want a seven 340 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 8: week extension on the budget they've been running for the 341 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 8: past two years that they themselves approved and until recently 342 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 8: had no issue with it until they started nitpicking the 343 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 8: actual funds in the budget. And it's still operating at 344 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 8: a two trillion dollar deficit. But they're like picking and 345 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 8: choosing what the cuts are more on like ideological reasons 346 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 8: more than anything, and the economy is just shedding jobs 347 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 8: all over the place, and then they're talking about laying 348 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 8: off like a million employees and it just like really 349 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 8: turned into the point where how do they expect to 350 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 8: get re elected? It's like there's a whole argument and 351 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,640 Speaker 8: to be like, oh, I put your entire civilian support 352 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 8: staff at the base out of work, but I got 353 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 8: that transgender off the high school track team. That's like, well, 354 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 8: that's that's great, that's wonderful. Let me re elect y'all. 355 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 2: Okay, that's fairly cynical view, which is which is fine. 356 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 2: I will tell you that the continuing resolution, which I'm 357 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 2: not sure if it's seven weeks or not, the idea 358 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 2: is that gives them more time to negotiate. Uh, and 359 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,520 Speaker 2: it's what called I guess it's called the clean resolution, 360 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 2: meaning they would just extend the budget as has been existed, 361 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 2: has has existed for last year. But let's get let's 362 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: get kurt. I think I think you raised some interesting points, Matt. Obviously, 363 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 2: there are cultural issues that the Republicans are fighting the 364 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,639 Speaker 2: Democrats on, uh, and then there's some fiscal issues. So 365 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 2: kurt Is, does Matt have a legitimate point here in 366 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 2: your opinion that the Republicans are are fighting one battle 367 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 2: over here and they may lose that and the only 368 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,680 Speaker 2: thing they'll come back with is something of a cultural 369 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 2: issue basis. 370 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, Matt, thanks for the comment and the question. 371 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 5: And you know, the. 372 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 4: The levels of spending that they're continuing with the continuing Resolution, 373 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 4: it's just for seven weeks until November twenty first, and 374 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 4: that actually came out of a twenty twenty four bipartisan 375 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 4: on the Most Appropriations Act. So that's that's when those 376 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 4: levels were set, and that was you might remember what 377 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 4: caused Speaker Kevin McCarthy to face the revolt from some 378 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 4: of the folks and his party that led to mister 379 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 4: Johnson becoming speakers. So there are people that are saying 380 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 4: these are, you know, Biden levels, and that's true in 381 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 4: a nominal, nominal sense, but of course, the economy has 382 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 4: grown over that period of time, and there's a lot 383 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 4: of different things going on, a lot of different issues, 384 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 4: and it does seem like Republicans are banking a lot 385 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 4: for their electoral prospects on avoiding a mass of tax 386 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 4: increase on the American people and streamlining some of the waste, 387 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 4: fraud and abuse and getting that out of the system 388 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 4: in healthcare and some other things that were part of 389 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 4: the reconciliation legislation, along with eliminating a number of tax 390 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 4: preferences for the green energy. So there's still a lot 391 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,680 Speaker 4: more to come. There's the regulations the administration is pursuing, 392 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 4: there's other legislative items that they're working on. The goal 393 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 4: after they get through the continuing Resolution is to have 394 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 4: full funding for the federal government for all of fiscal 395 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 4: year twenty twenty six, which began today. And you know, 396 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 4: we just have to see how those things play out. 397 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,479 Speaker 8: Do you think they'll probably come to a resolution when 398 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 8: the military admisses their checked on the fifteenth, and they'll 399 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 8: probably start trying to wrap it up around the sixteenth 400 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 8: or seventeenth, and hopefully come to a one year continuing 401 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 8: resolution at seven weeks, at two weeks and fight about 402 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 8: it again because I feel like the whole seven week thing. 403 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 8: We get the seven weeks, I'm going to be seven 404 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,800 Speaker 8: more weeks and then everything else, so we're gonna keep going. 405 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 2: Well, that's not the way it's worked in the past, Matt, 406 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 2: to be honest with you, and Kirk can aggress that. 407 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 2: I think the idea is we're gonna go past this 408 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 2: deadline where we have irreconcilable differences. Let's give it seven weeks. 409 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: I don't think they're going to extend it for a year. 410 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: I don't think that's realistic, but I think a shorter 411 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 2: period of time might force them to, you know, look 412 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 2: down the barrel of a theoretical gun and say, we 413 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 2: really don't want to play political suicide here. 414 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 3: Kurt, you know this better than I do. If you 415 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 3: could address Matt's comment. 416 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 4: Sure, yeah, I mean the House has already passed something, 417 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 4: it's in the Senate's court. I would expect that probably 418 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 4: in the next week or so, plus or minus a 419 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 4: couple of days, the Senate will pass that as well, 420 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,399 Speaker 4: and then in November they might do another short term 421 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 4: cr but probably before Christmas they will try to do 422 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 4: and probably will do a full year funding bill. But 423 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 4: here's the thing that's really important to understand and why 424 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 4: we keep having shutdowns, is that Congress doesn't actually do 425 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 4: a budget. Congress does appropriations, and that's important. It's fund 426 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 4: federal agencies, but it's only about a quarter of the spending, 427 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 4: and it's none of the revenues but none of the 428 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 4: tax preferences. And it really only involves one committee in 429 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 4: the House and one committee in the Senate, the appropriations committees. 430 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 4: So there's a fundamental defect in the way that Congress 431 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 4: does budgeting. And in fact, in New England they do 432 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 4: it a lot better. Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, each state 433 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 4: has a single budget bill each year. Rhode Island doesn't 434 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,239 Speaker 4: even have the possibility of shutdowns. That's great. They've been 435 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 4: doing that for generations. It works really well. Connecticut has 436 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 4: a spending growth limit that ends up balancing the budget 437 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 4: over the medium term. That's a really smart thing to do. 438 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 4: Switzerland and some other places that work really well have 439 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 4: that as well. So there are lessons about the ways 440 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 4: the states and other countries are doing things that Congress 441 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 4: could adopt that would make them be able to budget 442 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 4: far better than they do today, and that's one of 443 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 4: the things that we're working with legislators on. So this 444 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,479 Speaker 4: is a mess. It shouldn't be like this, and there 445 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 4: are better ways, and we're trying to make them possible 446 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 4: as well. 447 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 2: By the way, Matt, earlier this week, I saw an 448 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 2: article that Kurt wrote about is entitled modernizing federal budgets 449 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 2: starts with preventing shutdowns. Here in Massachusetts, we require a 450 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 2: balanced budget. We can't run a deficit in Massachusetts. Either 451 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: programs need to be cut or taxes need to be raised. 452 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,159 Speaker 2: We can have a rainy day fund and put some 453 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 2: money aside, but we cannot have a deficit in Massachusetts. 454 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 2: The federal deficit is now thirty seven trillion dollars, and 455 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 2: Republicans and Democrats have both contributed to that with you 456 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 2: know when they either r in the legislature or the 457 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 2: White House. It's a huge mess. How concerned? I just 458 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,239 Speaker 2: want to get a quick comment from from Kurt and 459 00:26:59,280 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 2: also from Matt. 460 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 3: How concerned are you? Kurt? I'll go to you. 461 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: First, and then I want to hear from Matt about 462 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: a thirty seven trillion dollar debt for a for a 463 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 2: country who runs a GDP of about twenty seven and 464 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 2: twenty eight trillion dollars, our debt is more than all 465 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 2: the money that we spend in our economy during an 466 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,360 Speaker 2: entire year. How concerned are you with that, Kurt, and 467 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 2: what are the implications? And then I want to hear 468 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:26,120 Speaker 2: from Matt too. 469 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's quite concerning. We have a federal debt held 470 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 4: by the public to GDP ratio that's about one hundred percent. 471 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 4: Total debt is about one hundred and twenty percent of GDP. 472 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 4: And we can't keep going like this. It is by 473 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 4: definition unsustainable and if we don't get a hold of 474 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 4: it in time, then we could have a debt crisis. 475 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,959 Speaker 4: It wouldn't just be economically devastating, but also socially and 476 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 4: for our security purposes as well. Ray Dalio, the famous investor, 477 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 4: has a new book out about Donations go Broke, and 478 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 4: he thinks we have about three years to get serious 479 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 4: about turning this around. So very serious, and that's really 480 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 4: what the book is about about not only the balanced 481 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 4: budget amendment that could get two thirds in both houses 482 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 4: of Congress, but the implementing legislation as well, and the 483 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 4: fundamental fixes to the budget process, no shutdowns, a comprehensive 484 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 4: budget with everything, and I think it's all the committees 485 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 4: involved and starting on time as well. That's another piece 486 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 4: of the puzzle. So we do still have time to 487 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:36,239 Speaker 4: get this turned around. The legislation has been built, we 488 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 4: just need to build the coalitions around it and get 489 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 4: it to happen. 490 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 3: Matt, you sound like a young guy. I'm not a 491 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 3: young guy. 492 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 2: My generation, the baby boomer is real leaving a tremendous 493 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 2: federal debt to younger generations. 494 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 3: How old are you? 495 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: Mad? 496 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 8: If I could ask, mid thirties. 497 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 3: Mid thirties, okay, well you probably may. 498 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 2: How concerned are you about the federal dead of thirty 499 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 2: seven trillion dollars? 500 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 8: Well, I just look at it that all the stuff 501 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 8: they just recently did was like we'll address it in 502 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 8: four years, and then it's like the next administration could 503 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 8: deal with it, and just the next administration will come 504 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 8: in and be like, oh, the next administration will deal 505 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 8: with it. So it just to seem to keep it 506 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 8: up with these cost savings, and they revise it later 507 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 8: and change it, so it just uh, That's why I 508 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 8: have like no faith in the whole seven weeks thing, 509 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 8: because I think. 510 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 2: That's a pretty good, pretty good analysis, a shorthand analysis. 511 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: But yeah, it gets kicked if they call it kicking 512 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 2: the can down the road. At at some point, the 513 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 2: kids is going to blow up when you kick it, 514 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 2: I guess. 515 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 8: And it's like, okay, like we cut back in the 516 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 8: taxes to help like shut the boom. But that's like 517 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 8: all right, I like everything's maxed out, so I'm gonna 518 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 8: start working part time. That it's about the size of it. 519 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 8: I don't know. I mean, they're not really serious about it, 520 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 8: just like a political infighting and the either side really 521 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 8: once I address the issue. 522 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: Well, maybe there's a whole other other ancillary issues that 523 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 2: we could talk about some night. Maybe we got to 524 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 2: get term limits down there so that we we'd turn 525 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 2: over and get new people in and new blood and 526 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 2: younger people in. 527 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 3: Uh, and maybe they'll take this situation more seriously. Matt, 528 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 3: great call. 529 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 2: I don't know if you called before, but thank you 530 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 2: very much for taking the time tonight, and I hope 531 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 2: you continue to listen and call. Thank you very much. 532 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 2: There it goes okay, I'd like to say goodbye to folks. 533 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 2: We'll be back my guess, Kurt Kouchman. I do want 534 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 2: to talk about the idea of a balanced budget amendment 535 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 2: and how difficult that would be to get it through Congress. 536 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 2: But I got other callers waiting. If you'd like to 537 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: join six one seven, four ten thirty six one seven 538 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 2: nine three one ten thirty. I was bragging to Kurt 539 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: today how we have listeners all up and down the 540 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: East coast of America. So if you're anywhere outside of 541 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 2: New England, I'll give you some priority if you want 542 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 2: to call in and weigh in on this. Feel free 543 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: coming back on Nightside right after this. 544 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,600 Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on Boston's news radio. 545 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 3: But guess is Kirk Kaufman. 546 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 2: He's a senior fellow on fiscal policy matters at the 547 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 2: Americans for Prosperity. His book Fiscal Democracy in America. How 548 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 2: a balanced budget Amendment can resource sound to governance. We'll 549 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 2: talk about that, but I don't want to leave my 550 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 2: next caller waiting. He's been holding for a bit. Chuck 551 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 2: in Dorchester, Chuck, you were on with Kirk Kauschman. 552 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:36,959 Speaker 5: Goright ahead, Chucky, I just have a couple of questions, 553 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 5: may not pertain to the book, but the government just 554 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 5: shut down, and are there any things put in place 555 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 5: that there's a wage freeze for our Congress, because basically 556 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 5: they seem to be the big problem. They're out there 557 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 5: fighting everything, claiming to be for the people, but they 558 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 5: never seen the w when the government shuts down. You know, 559 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 5: the people that are keeping the government running are losing 560 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 5: money except for them. Is there any the vision and 561 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 5: the laws or anything like that where they don't vote 562 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 5: their raises in because their raisers are a big part 563 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 5: of this debt. 564 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,760 Speaker 2: Well, and yeah, Chuck, their raises are when you talk 565 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 2: about thirty seven trillion dollars, the raises are significant. 566 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 3: No doubt. 567 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 2: They can't even get a law passed in Congress to 568 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 2: limit in effect inside or trading by members of Congress. 569 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 5: But that oh yes, yes, yeah, Hey, that's a. 570 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 3: Steward for another day. Let's get cut in here real quickly, could. 571 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 3: I think Chuck makes a pretty good point. What's your 572 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,280 Speaker 3: thought on his point? 573 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, the Constitution in the twenty seventh Amendment doesn't allow 574 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:51,479 Speaker 4: their compensation to be altered without an intervening election. There 575 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,600 Speaker 4: was actually part of the Bill of Rights package, but 576 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 4: it didn't get ratified until nineteen ninety one or something 577 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 4: like that, And so member of Congress is considered to 578 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 4: be mandatory spending, and so it's not affected by this 579 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 4: lapse and appropriations. I certainly agree that there are problems 580 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 4: with Congress. They're not doing the job that we need 581 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 4: them to do. But yeah, this is not something that 582 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 4: under the Constitution can be messed with. 583 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 2: I could read you real quickly here, Chuck Court enterving 584 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 2: to interrupt you. But the twenty seventh Amendment was passed 585 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 2: you pretty good in nineteen ninety two. No law varying 586 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,720 Speaker 2: the compensation for the services of Senators and Representatives shall 587 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 2: take effect until an election of representatives shall have intervened. 588 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 2: So but you pass a law or and inside of 589 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 2: stock trading, go ahead? 590 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, guess. But just like the city council up here, 591 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 5: they vote for raises and they give these people lots 592 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 5: of money for doing nothing. But the other thing I 593 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 5: want to do. The other thing I wanted to touch 594 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 5: on is you said, basically the seven week extension. If 595 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 5: I do my math correctly, the seventh week extension basically 596 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 5: would expire after the midterm elections. 597 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 3: Correct, there are no midterm elections this year. 598 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 4: There are a couple of off your elections like in Virginia. 599 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 2: Nonatorial elections, but congressional elections next year through Yeah, it 600 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 2: would It wouldn't have an impact on the on the 601 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,239 Speaker 2: congressional elections. But uh, it's it certainly is not a 602 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 2: bad thought, Chuck, that's for sure. 603 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:35,720 Speaker 3: Okay. 604 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 5: And the other thing to kick the can thing. Okay, 605 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 5: so this is basically kicking the can started when Trump 606 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 5: was in office. People understand how politics work. The plans 607 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 5: that the current president puts into play doesn't come into 608 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 5: play four to five years after that president is gone. 609 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,919 Speaker 3: That's not true. That's not true, Chuck. 610 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 4: Of the things something longer than others. 611 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 5: Yeah, the most of the financial stuff, Okay, Obama left 612 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 5: Trump a good, good piece of money. Trump pissed that away. 613 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 3: No, no, let me let me help you if I can, Chuck. Okay. 614 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 2: When Bill Clinton left office, we had a federal debt 615 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 2: of five trillion dollars. When George Bush left office, we 616 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 2: had a federal debt doubled of ten trillion dollars when president. 617 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 2: When President Obama left office in twenty sixteen, it had 618 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 2: not troubled but had not doubled, but it had grown. 619 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 3: To eighteen trillion dollars. 620 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 2: It has grown with every president, Republican and Democrat, you know, I. 621 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 3: Mean Gagrish and Clinton, thank you. 622 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 2: Gingrish and Clinton actually got together and had some progress 623 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 2: on the stuff we're talking about tonight, a Democrat and 624 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 2: a Republican. 625 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:01,319 Speaker 3: But ever since atle bit no gored it go ahead, right, Yeah. 626 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,360 Speaker 4: I mean we often talk about things in terms of 627 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 4: presidents because everybody knows what the president was, but it 628 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,359 Speaker 4: probably actually matters more who's in control of the House 629 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,439 Speaker 4: of Representatives because all revenue measures have to start in 630 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 4: the House of Representatives. Appropriations bills tend to start in 631 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 4: the House of Representatives, and so like when you think 632 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 4: about the end of the Clinton presidency, you know New 633 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 4: gingrichra speaker, at the end of the Obama administration, you 634 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 4: know Republicans. At the end of the Trump administration was Democrats. 635 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 4: So I think that might actually be more fruitful to 636 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 4: be looking at who's controlling the House of Representatives than 637 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 4: the president, because at the end of the day, the 638 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 4: president's really just supposed to sign our veto legislation and 639 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 4: then execute it, and it's really Congress that cooks up 640 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:48,840 Speaker 4: what the laws are. 641 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 3: But then they're intervening, I mean they're intervening factors. 642 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 2: We had nine to eleven with George Bush, and we 643 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 2: ended up with the warring Iraq and Afghanistan, which you 644 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 2: know was a combination of the press scidence and the 645 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 2: president in Congress a President Biden was dealing and and 646 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 2: and President Trump was dealing with the COVID crisis. So 647 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 2: but no one ever turns around and says, hey, we 648 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 2: got we're gonna owe a lot of money. And Chuck, 649 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,040 Speaker 2: you sound to me like you're a young guy too. 650 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 3: I'm not. 651 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,439 Speaker 5: You know, it's I'm over fifty five. 652 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 3: Well that I consider that young, Chuck, remember on TV? 653 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,359 Speaker 3: You got it? Got it all right? Jack? Hey man, 654 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,040 Speaker 3: thanks for calling. Have you called before? This is your 655 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 3: first time I've called before. Well keep calling. Okay, it 656 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 3: was a very thoughtful call. 657 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 5: I got one thing I want to end this with. 658 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:42,840 Speaker 3: Go ahead. You gotta be quick though, because I'm running 659 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 3: out of time. 660 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 5: Up here in Massachusetts. Died with Tip O'Neil. That's when 661 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 5: it all with the hell up here? 662 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 3: Okay, all right, yeah, that's it, all right? Thanks, thanks, 663 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 3: thank you guys. 664 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:55,879 Speaker 5: Have a good night you. 665 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,960 Speaker 2: Too, Krekkausman again the book Fiscal Democracy in America, How 666 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 2: a balanced budget amendment can restore sound governance. Here's the 667 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,800 Speaker 2: most important question tonight, is that the sort of book 668 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 2: that you got to be an economist to read. Can 669 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 2: an average American read your book? 670 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 5: Yeah? 671 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 4: I think it's the kind of book that anybody can read. 672 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 4: I had a friend read the manuscript before, you know, 673 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,920 Speaker 4: went to the publisher's final typesetting and all that, and 674 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 4: he said, Wow, this is like super readable, and he 675 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 4: was kind of surprised because of what it's about. But 676 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,400 Speaker 4: you know, these these ideas don't have to be difficult 677 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 4: to understand. I think people make it too complicated sometimes. 678 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 4: So my mission is to take all this stuff and 679 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 4: make it so that anybody you can just pick it 680 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 4: up and understand what the problems are, what the solutions are. 681 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,280 Speaker 2: Sounds great, and you did a great job tonight, Kurt. 682 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 2: I really appreciate your time tonight. And you did such 683 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:53,239 Speaker 2: a great job, we're going to invite you back at 684 00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,400 Speaker 2: some point, Okay, so I hope you'll be willing to 685 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 2: come back. 686 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 3: Thanks. 687 00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,000 Speaker 4: It's way past my bedtime, but it's worth it. 688 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 3: Thank you. Thanks very much. 689 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,600 Speaker 2: Kurt couchman of Americans for Prosperity his book Fiscal Democracy 690 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 2: in America, How a balanced Budget Amendment can restore sound governance. 691 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Kurt. We'll talk again. We'll be back 692 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 2: right after the eleven o'clock news for a fourth and 693 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 2: final hour here on Nightside.