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Speaker 1: By Billy Cunningham, the Great America and a studio with

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Speaker 1: me now is Joe Eaters former how many County prosecutor

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Speaker 1: also on the High Supreme Court now and Mark Petemar,

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Speaker 1: who spent how many years prosecuting criminals? Are Mark?

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Speaker 2: Did you spend forty four year for six months when

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Speaker 2: I was activated for Desert storm?

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Speaker 1: So you know it's where the bodies are buried? Forty

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Speaker 1: four years? Bhi Joe.

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Speaker 3: First of all, you want to make a statement, Well,

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Speaker 3: I just want to make sure that your listeners know

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Speaker 3: that I am on the Supreme Court and this has

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Speaker 3: got nothing to do with the Supreme Court. I voluntarily

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Speaker 3: recused myself from anything to do with.

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Speaker 4: The Jones case, and.

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Speaker 3: I felt compelled to write this letter bill that you

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Speaker 3: have now and I think it's on your website too,

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Speaker 3: laying out my concerns with MS. Pillage's press conference is

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Speaker 3: clearing Elwood Jones of the murder of Roode Nathan, and

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Speaker 3: I appreciate the opportunity to come in here talk to

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Speaker 3: you about it. I brought Mark with Ian. Mark was

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Speaker 3: the trial attorney in this case. I don't know that

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Speaker 3: many people know Mark's reputation and I wish he wasn't

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Speaker 3: here to listen to this, but it's stellar. He was

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Speaker 3: the lead prosecutor in all the Lucasville Right cases. He

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Speaker 3: was in that office forty years about maybe the best

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Speaker 3: prosecutor in the state of Ohio. And Mark was the

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Speaker 3: trial attorney. And I send to be here with us

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Speaker 3: just in case you had questions about the facts of

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Speaker 3: this thing.

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Speaker 1: Mark Pete Meyer did Eldwood Jones murder wrote a Nathan.

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Speaker 2: Yes, tell me why, well, a lot of evidence. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I was speaking of Joe before. You know, we've tried

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Speaker 2: some tough cases where you really rely on eyewitnesses only,

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Speaker 2: and those are the kind of the tough cases. And

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Speaker 2: people criticize this because it was only quote only, a

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Speaker 2: circumstantial evidence case. And to me, circumstantial evidence is unrefuted facts,

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Speaker 2: and these are the unrefuted facts. Elwood Jones was working

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Speaker 2: on the second floor of the Embassy Suites hotel in

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Speaker 2: the afternoon of I think it was a Friday afternoon,

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Speaker 2: setting up a banquet room when a couple arrived to

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Speaker 2: go into the room next door to where he was working.

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Speaker 2: That was Joe Kaplan and Elaine Shube. Elwood could have

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Speaker 2: easily seen them go into that room, and our theory

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Speaker 2: as he did see them, knew that it was a

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Speaker 2: couple staying in that room. Later that night, after Elwood

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Speaker 2: got off of work, rode to Nathan, our victim showed up.

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Speaker 2: Elwoodt did not realize now that there are three people

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Speaker 2: in the room. The next morning, the couple that first

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Speaker 2: arrived went down to breakfast and rote of Nathan is

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Speaker 2: in the room. She's going to take a shower, and

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Speaker 2: Elwood is also working in the room right next door.

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Speaker 2: That day, it's a banquet room with the door open,

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Speaker 2: and Elwood is a thief. He's a career thief. And

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Speaker 2: our belief is is that he saw an opportunity, went

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Speaker 2: in the room because he thought it was open and confronts.

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Speaker 2: Wrote to Nathan. Rode to Nathan is savagely beaten. He

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Speaker 2: died of blunt force trauma. There was very little blood

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Speaker 2: at the scene because it was just beaten to death.

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Speaker 2: About a half hour later, the couple comes back from breakfast,

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Speaker 2: open the door and they find Roda Nathan laying on

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Speaker 2: the floor. All she had on her was a bath towe.

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Speaker 2: They think, oh my god, she must have had a

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Speaker 2: heart attack. And they call paramatics and they come and

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Speaker 2: they're treating her, trying to revive her from what they

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Speaker 2: believed was a heart attack. Two other things were noticed

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Speaker 2: by the couple at the time. There was a distinctive

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Speaker 2: handweight made necklace that Roda always wore around her neck

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Speaker 2: and it was missing. Also, Elaine Schub noticed there were

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Speaker 2: hundreds of dollars of cash that she had in her

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Speaker 2: purse that was taken. One other thing is this is

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Speaker 2: a you know, thirty years ago or so, and back

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Speaker 2: then they didn't have the electronic key cards. You needed

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Speaker 2: a key to get in the door, and the door

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Speaker 2: latsed automatically, but Joe Kaplan was sure when he left

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Speaker 2: the room, he did what most people do, checked to

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Speaker 2: made sure it was securely locked, because they didn't one

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Speaker 2: it opened with Rooda in. They're taking a shower. When

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Speaker 2: Rhoda gets to the hospital, she dies. They take her

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Speaker 2: to the coroner's office and lo and behold, they find

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Speaker 2: that she died from blunt for's trauma. A couple other

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Speaker 2: things about her body. There was a couple of distinctive

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Speaker 2: bruises that were developed on her body. One was very

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Speaker 2: consistent with a walkie talkie, which some of the workers

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Speaker 2: in the hotel were issued. Elwood Jones was one of those.

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Speaker 2: There was also a door chain a latch, which is

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Speaker 2: kind of an unusual mark to have on a body.

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Speaker 2: She also had that on her body, and it told

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Speaker 2: us that whoever did this three things we know for sure.

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Speaker 2: The person had to have a master key. The person

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Speaker 2: also had to have a walkie talkie, and the person

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Speaker 2: also had to have one of these door latches. We

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Speaker 2: also know that the person that did this took Rhoda's necklace.

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Speaker 2: When Elwood Jones arrived at work that morning, everybody noticed

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Speaker 2: he was fine. A couple hours later, people noticed that

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Speaker 2: his left hand was bandaged, and people said, Elwood, what

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Speaker 2: happened to your hand? And one person he said, oh,

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Speaker 2: I was taking some trash out and I fell and

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Speaker 2: I cut it. And somebody else asked him he says, well,

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Speaker 2: when I was up on the second floor taking down

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Speaker 2: that banquet room, a piece of the floor and fell

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Speaker 2: on my hand and he cut it.

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Speaker 1: So some inconsistent things.

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Speaker 2: Immediately, when Blue Ass started investigating, they realized one very

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Speaker 2: important thing. Whoever did this had to be in the

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Speaker 2: hotel that morning and had to have a master key,

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Speaker 2: and that limited the suspect pool from hundreds of people

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Speaker 2: in the hotel to about four people. You know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying this, I feel like I've given an opening

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Speaker 2: statement again. But these are the facts, and this is

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Speaker 2: what we presented to the jury. About four or five

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Speaker 2: days later, Elwood's hand got very infected and he's thinking,

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Speaker 2: I'd better do something about this, and he goes to

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Speaker 2: some clinic and there's a doctor, John McDonough, who taught

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Speaker 2: at UC Med School, and he was one of the

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Speaker 2: best hand surgeons in the country. And one day a

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Speaker 2: month he would volunteer to go to this clinic and

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Speaker 2: treat people basically for free. It's almost like God said,

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Speaker 2: I want you there that day because I want someone

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Speaker 2: to see what Elwood has. And Elwood comes in and

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Speaker 2: his left hand has severely sworn. It's Elwood, what what

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Speaker 2: happened to your hand? And he gives them a couple

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Speaker 2: other stories. And the doctor knows that anytime you've got

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Speaker 2: a cut in one of your knuckles, chances are you

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Speaker 2: pop somebody in the mouth. He also knows that inside

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Speaker 2: the human gum line there's a bacteria Aikinella crodins I

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Speaker 2: don't know science very well. Hell, I want to Roger

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Speaker 2: Bacon I Joe couldn't get in, but he had to

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Speaker 2: settle for saying it's just sad, you know, but we

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Speaker 2: have standards like you. Anyway, he knew that if I

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Speaker 2: don't treat this hand for Konella crones or tests for it,

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Speaker 2: he's going to lose his hand. So even though Elwood

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Speaker 2: said I cut it on something, he tested for this

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Speaker 2: bacteria that's in the gum line. Lo and behold, it's

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Speaker 2: Akonela crodins. In fact, he was so sure of this

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Speaker 2: he took a picture of Elwood's hand to teach to

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Speaker 2: his medical students and said, if anybody ever comes in

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Speaker 2: with a hand swollen like this, you've got to test

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Speaker 2: for that bacteria because if you don't, they're probably gonna

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Speaker 2: lose their hands. So when this came out, everybody started

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Speaker 2: focusing on Elwood. Blue Ash police got a search warrant

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Speaker 2: for his car, for his home, for his trunk of

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Speaker 2: his car. A couple things they found. Number one, they

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Speaker 2: found Milwaukee talkie that actually Joe and I went to Washington,

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Speaker 2: d C. And had the FBI lab look at it,

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Speaker 2: and they were able to match it again it's Alwaukee talkie.

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Speaker 2: There were more than one in that hotel, but it

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Speaker 2: matched all the rivets and everything matched exactly. The mark

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Speaker 2: on road in Nathan's check chest. Also in his toolbox

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Speaker 2: there was one of these door latches and that also

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Speaker 2: matched the toolmark. The impression of that door lock on

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Speaker 2: her chest, which is again that's a lot more unusual

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Speaker 2: than Milwaukee talkie. But the absolute thing that clinched it

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Speaker 2: all was that pendant of Rooda Nathan. There were a

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Speaker 2: picture of taking of Roda Nathan wearing that, and it

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Speaker 2: matched exactly that pendant found in the trunk of Elwood

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Speaker 2: Jones's car. I think that's a pretty darn good case.

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Speaker 1: Rhoda is almost reaching back from the grave saying the

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Speaker 1: evidence of my killing is in possession of the murderer,

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Speaker 1: and that man was Edward Jones. And Rotea had that

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Speaker 1: virus in her mouth.

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Speaker 3: That was so that's how the infection occurred.

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Speaker 1: Joe. When I read and you looked at the news

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Speaker 1: conference of our new prosecutor, Connie Pillage, she uses words

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Speaker 1: like cheat it in quotes that you and Mark cheated.

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Speaker 1: She also used terms that you withheld evidence well, in

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Speaker 1: other words, she's accusing you two of making sure that

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Speaker 1: an innocent man is convicted and the guilty guy gets

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Speaker 1: all free. Whoever, this mystery man is with OJ Simpson

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Speaker 1: in a sand trap. So how do you respond to

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Speaker 1: this allegation of Connie Pillach, who never tried a criminal

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Speaker 1: case in her life, that you cheated.

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Speaker 3: I'm, frankly, I'm dumbfounded by the allegation. She's further stated

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Speaker 3: she's cleared him because of modern medical scientific evidence. I

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Speaker 3: don't know what she's talking about. If she is talking

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Speaker 3: about hepatitis B. The defense's own witness, in his request

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Speaker 3: for a new trial, said there was about a thirty

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Speaker 3: three percent chance of him getting that by punching her

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Speaker 3: in the mouth.

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Speaker 4: So it's not.

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Speaker 1: How can you exclude.

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Speaker 3: Somebody when there's a seventy or sixty seven percent chance

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Speaker 3: that that could still be true. But the allegation, Look,

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Speaker 3: I said this in the letter. I hope the people

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Speaker 3: that are listening to this could have a chance to

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Speaker 3: read the letter.

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Speaker 4: It's not that long.

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Speaker 3: It's on our website, it's on your website.

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Speaker 4: It's just so offensive.

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Speaker 3: If she wants to let this guy go, maybe she says, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know what, thirty years is enough, the litigation is enough.

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Speaker 3: In mercy for whatever reason decides to let him go.

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Speaker 3: I got no problem with that. She's the prosecutor. She

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Speaker 3: can do whatever she wants. What I take umbrage to

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Speaker 3: is accusing the prosecutor's office of what I mean, seriously,

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Speaker 3: she's accusing people of a crime here hiding evidence. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that is outrageous to make that allegation. There's no proof

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Speaker 3: of it. And even that, Look, we had the trial,

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Speaker 3: it went through all the judges in state court, affirmed, affirmed, affirmed,

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Speaker 3: Then they go to federal court. And when they went

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Speaker 3: to federal court, they asked for all these documents from

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Speaker 3: Blush police. We're basically questionnaires given to everybody stay at

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Speaker 3: the hotel. The vast majority was we didn't see anything.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: That's the thousands of pages of evidence that was hidden,

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Speaker 3: and then police runs to the hotel. The Federal Court

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Speaker 3: of Appeals, the judge of at the trial level said

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Speaker 3: that the material was in fact immaterial and it would

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Speaker 3: not have affected the outcome of this trial. Then it

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Speaker 3: went all the way to the six Circuit Court of Appeals,

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Speaker 3: Federal Court Appeals on the same issues exact same issues,

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Speaker 3: and they unanimously affirmed that too. So this has been

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Speaker 3: litigated before, and to claim now that we've hid evidence

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Speaker 3: or that you can exclude this guy is total bull crap.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Also, she said the modern scientific when she said that, I,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think about DNA.

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Speaker 4: That's what I thought.

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Speaker 1: There's no DNA. She was talking about a hepatitis B

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Speaker 1: that one third of the time is communicated two thirds

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Speaker 1: of time not Also, Mark Petemyer, you were in charge

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Speaker 1: of providing to the defense in this case all available evidence.

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Speaker 1: You've been accused of playing a game of Lucy Hyde

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Speaker 1: the football, and that you had these thousands and thousands

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Speaker 1: of pages of inculpatory or exculpatory evidence that you refuse.

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Speaker 1: You knew what was in there, and you didn't want

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Speaker 1: to give it to the defense because it proved that

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Speaker 1: Elwood was innocent. That's the allegation of Connie Pillage. You're

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Speaker 1: the guy in charge of giving the papers. What do

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Speaker 1: you say about that one? That's just not true.

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Speaker 2: And Bill, you've tried a lot of cases too, including

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Speaker 2: murder cases, and the rules of discovery back then is

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Speaker 2: the basically everything you had you gave to the defense.

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Speaker 2: One thing they were not entitled to were witnesses statements.

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Speaker 2: Now since then the law has been changed. But as

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Speaker 2: you know, if I called Joe Deaders as a witness

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Speaker 2: and he's made a prior statement before you cross examine him,

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Speaker 2: you can ask the judge to review his prior statement,

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Speaker 2: and the judge will do that, and if there's anything

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Speaker 2: in there inconsistent here, say hey here, Bill, you can

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Speaker 2: cross examined leaders on this because he said some things

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Speaker 2: different that happened during the trial a couple times.

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Speaker 1: That's the only thing that was not given. But again

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Speaker 1: they had access to it during the trial. All this

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Speaker 1: other stuff, these questionnaires at Blue ass sent out that

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Speaker 1: meant nothing. As far as I know, we never got

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Speaker 1: and we certainly never got afterwards. We never subpoenaed the

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Speaker 1: records of all the crimes that ever took place in

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Speaker 1: that hotel. I remember they had some prostitution ring if

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Speaker 1: you going on back there years ago, that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people were prosecuted for that, they had some undercover

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Speaker 1: cops in there.

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Speaker 2: Those are the kind of records they also subpoened. So

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Speaker 2: the vast, vast majority of this stuff we never had.

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Speaker 2: But the federal judge got all this all this stuff

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Speaker 2: that they said proved he was innocent and that we withheld. Again,

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Speaker 2: we didn't even have it. The judges looked at it

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Speaker 2: and says, there's nothing here. This is absolutely nothing that

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Speaker 2: exculpates Elwood Jones.

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Speaker 1: And that's why it's already been ruled on. That's why

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Speaker 1: when a common police judge basically overruled the federal judge

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Speaker 1: and the Federal six Circuit Court of Appeals, it's like,

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Speaker 1: what's going on. Judge Cross never been on the bench before.

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Speaker 1: She's a brand new judge from the Public Defender's Office,

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Speaker 1: and she held a four day hearing on emotion for

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Speaker 1: a new trial, essentially the appetitis B issue and not

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Speaker 1: giving over the document she used to explain, what's the motivation?

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Speaker 1: Joe Dieters, what's the motivation?

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Speaker 4: I have no idea why you would do this.

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Speaker 3: I mean, she's parroting the talking points of the defense attorneys,

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Speaker 3: which is a good thing sometimes, well for you maybe,

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Speaker 3: But she's supposed to be representing the state of Ohio.

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Speaker 3: And you know, and I know this is kind of

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Speaker 3: personal in nature, but I was the prosecutor and I

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Speaker 3: litigated this case for twenty five years, and she clearly

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Speaker 3: talked to the defense attorneys.

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Speaker 4: She was in a press commerce.

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Speaker 3: She said, oh why send them a screenshot of my

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Speaker 3: emotion to dismiss the whole case, you know, almost gleefully.

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Speaker 1: And she never called me one time.

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Speaker 4: I've met her.

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Speaker 3: One time, I said, if you need thing, feel free

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Speaker 3: to call me. Be happy to talk to you about

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Speaker 3: the office. But so she talks to the I don't

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Speaker 3: know who she talked to besides these defense attorneys that

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Speaker 3: she said she talked to. But anyone who thinks that

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Speaker 3: Ellwood's been excluded, Uh, I'm trying to be judicious about this.

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Speaker 3: It's either dead wrong or they're lying. You know, they

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Speaker 3: just don't understand what this What exclusion means, it's gonna turn.

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Speaker 3: It means he can't possibly be the guy. That's what

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Speaker 3: Connie Pillage said.

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Speaker 1: This cannot be the guy Mark Petemer based upon the

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Speaker 1: layout of the case. This can and in fact, there's

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Speaker 1: somebody out there who committed this other than El would

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Speaker 1: now talk about his record many you didn't talk about it.

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Speaker 1: He was in his early forties when he committed these crimes.

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Speaker 1: And you know, I watched the Curtis Fuller interview at

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Speaker 1: Channel five and almost seem like a he was a

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Speaker 1: boy scout leader. When we come back, I want you

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Speaker 1: to talk about the previous record Eldwood Jones. Well, this

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Speaker 1: misbehavior is consistent, which includes, by the way, assault on

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Speaker 1: a police officer. We'll talk about that on the other side.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, the letter is on our Twitter account.

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Speaker 1: Let's continue with more. Bill Cunningham with Mark Pete Meyer

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Speaker 1: and Joe Eaters on news Radio seven hundred WLWN. Let's

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Speaker 1: continue now we have in the studio Joe Meeters and

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Speaker 1: also Mark Pete Meyer left it kind of hanging because

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Speaker 1: many times this is such a vicious beating. Some of

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Speaker 1: wrote his teeth was found in her stomach.

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Speaker 2: Correct, there was one on the floor of the hotel

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Speaker 2: room and one was found in her stomach.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Now, what was the previous criminal record of Elwood Jones.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's interesting because when they did the podcast,

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Speaker 2: the inquiry reported to the original podcast, she says, well, well,

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Speaker 2: wouldn't no, you're not a saint, or he goes, oh no, no,

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Speaker 2: I gotta admit I'm a thief. I'm a thief, and

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Speaker 2: it was all they laughed about that, like it's okay.

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Speaker 2: But he was more than a thief. He was arrested

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Speaker 2: five or six times for assault, you know, beating someone,

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Speaker 2: once for domestic violence, which would have been beating his wife,

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Speaker 2: once for assault on a police officer. But he was

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Speaker 2: also arrested four times, four different times for aggravated burglar,

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Speaker 2: which is breaking into someone's residence to steal something. After

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Speaker 2: I guess the first couple. He actually was convicted on

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Speaker 2: one of those and went to prison, apparently convinced the

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Speaker 2: par board that hey, I've been scared straight, I learned

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Speaker 2: my lesson. You're not going to see me again. They

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Speaker 2: cut him loose early, and with a short amount of

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Speaker 2: time he was arrested and convicted of another burglary and

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Speaker 2: went down to prison. So Elwood Jones was a career criminal,

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Speaker 2: and what better place for a guy like him to

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Speaker 2: work at a nice hotel with a master key.

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Speaker 1: It's like a kid in a candy store. One of

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Speaker 1: the other allegations of County pillage was that there was

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Speaker 1: someone else who would confessed to the murder of Elwood Jones.

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Speaker 1: Can you ferret out the facts in that matter?

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Speaker 2: Yes, this was first came to light, I think from

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Speaker 2: one of his attorneys twenty years after the murder happened,

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Speaker 2: but they had a lady who said back around that

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Speaker 2: shortly after this happened, she was locked up in the

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Speaker 2: justice center and her cell mate was a lady I

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Speaker 2: think her name was Linda Reid. And they get to

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Speaker 2: be talking, kicking a little bit, and Linda Reid tells

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Speaker 2: this lady, I have to tell you something. You know

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Speaker 2: that person that's been arrested on that embassy suite's case. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: well my husband the one is really did it, and

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Speaker 2: the Blue Ash Police framed that guy for it, but

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Speaker 2: my husband is really the one.

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Speaker 1: That is important stuff right now, Yeah, this is big.

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Speaker 1: Well somebody confessed to it. So you're Mark Petmer's your

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Speaker 1: ears looked like a rabbit. Well this is you know,

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Speaker 1: it is twenty years later, but still, who is this guy?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I never remember number one. He didn't work

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Speaker 1: for Blue ass Police. Number two, there's no association with

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Speaker 1: him in the hotel. And then we find out at

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Speaker 1: the time this lady is locked up and she's telling

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Speaker 1: her cellmate this. She's going through a divorce with her husband.

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Speaker 1: So I'm thinking, well, that's kind of red flag number one.

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Speaker 1: But I don't say, you know what, I'm gonna go

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Speaker 1: over and pull the domestic relations court case and see,

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Speaker 1: maybe this guy is a violent guy and he's constantly

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Speaker 1: beating the crap out of her, and maybe it's something

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Speaker 1: like that. When I pull the file, I see it's

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Speaker 1: Ken Peller, guardian for Ken Peller's a local attorney, guardian

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Speaker 1: for Linda Red versus mister Reed. And I'm thinking, why

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Speaker 1: does she have a guardian? I mean, why is she

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Speaker 1: not participating in the divorce. So I look further and

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Speaker 1: actually contacted Ken Peller. He says she was incompetent. She

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Speaker 1: was mentally incompetent to participate. That's the hook upon which

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Speaker 1: Connie Pillage hanged part of this. Well.

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Speaker 2: First of one, it's double hearsay because the guy that

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Speaker 2: really did it is dead. His wife is really dead,

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Speaker 2: So the person that did it telling his wife is

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Speaker 2: hearsay it, and his wife telling this other lady is

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Speaker 2: double hearsay. So number one, it's legally admissible, inadmissible. But

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Speaker 2: this lady that said it was found crazy by the

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Speaker 2: court so much that she couldn't even participate in.

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Speaker 1: Her own divorce. No way in the world that is evidence.

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Speaker 2: But that is the third prong Again, Number one is

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Speaker 2: the evidence that we withheld that the court said no.

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Speaker 2: Number two is the hepatitis, which only a third of

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Speaker 2: the people. In fact, the study that I referred to

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Speaker 2: us people that use needles of other people, and you're

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Speaker 2: very likely probably.

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Speaker 1: To get it there, but a third of those people

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Speaker 1: get it. Only a third.

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Speaker 2: So anyway, those are the three prongs based on that

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Speaker 2: he's cleared.

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Speaker 1: He's yeah, someone else confessed, Joe talk about hepatitis b

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Speaker 1: because you told me off there. There was some reference

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Speaker 1: in the optops optops the well, the defense.

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Speaker 3: Initially said, we hid the fact that she had hepatitis.

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Speaker 4: Did you do that?

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Speaker 3: Well, it was in the autopsy report that they got.

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Speaker 3: It was in black and white. Yes, it was inlaps,

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Speaker 3: he said. And I don't have to tell them what

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Speaker 3: defense to pursue. They can do whatever they want. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's not my job. But they received information she had hepatitis.

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Speaker 3: You know the reason I wanted to come her bills.

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Speaker 3: I was so offended by that press conference.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it was.

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Speaker 3: Factually and fundamentally incorrect, and it was so offensive to

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Speaker 3: accuse my office of hiding evidence to convict an innocent man.

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Speaker 3: It I don't know that she realizes the magnitude of

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Speaker 3: that statement. I mean, if people actually did that, they should.

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Speaker 4: Be in jail.

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Speaker 3: That it's just beyond defensive to me. And she I

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Speaker 3: think she owes the prosecutors an apology for this, but

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Speaker 3: you know she's obviously talking to defense attorneys and that's

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Speaker 3: who she talks to. So I guess that's the message

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Speaker 3: you get out of this whole case.

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Speaker 1: And Mark Pete Myer. As far as Elwood Jones himself,

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Speaker 1: I watched an interview on Channel five he did of

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Speaker 1: a Curtis Fuller positioning himself as a guy who's made

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Speaker 1: a few mistakes in the past, like beating up your

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Speaker 1: wife and hitting cops and serving time in prison for

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Speaker 1: burglaries twice, and now he's seen the light. And when

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Speaker 1: she uses the term cheated, that you cheated in this case,

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Speaker 1: how does that strike your heart? It really offends me.

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Speaker 2: And again I was asked by Connie Pillitts to stick

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Speaker 2: around and help with the transition for the office, which

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Speaker 2: I agreed to do.

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Speaker 1: And I you know, she's the other party.

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Speaker 2: I supported Missy Powers, and I thought, you know, people

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Speaker 2: are going to come in and take over the senior positions.

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Speaker 2: That really have never done this stuff. In fact, within

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Speaker 2: the first month, I think we had two different police shootings,

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Speaker 2: and I always went on both of those, on all

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Speaker 2: of those. So I took the new people out to

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Speaker 2: show you how we get involved in these police shootings,

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Speaker 2: what we do when we don't do, how we make decisions.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I did my best to help with

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Speaker 2: the transition, you know, just so because I cared about

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Speaker 2: the office.

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Speaker 1: I cared about the county forty four years, yes, And

435
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: for them to imply that, and Seth Tiger was the

436
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: other person that tried the case, I saw much younger

437
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 1: Mark Petemyer and a much younger Seth Tiger standing up

438
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety Yes, yes, ninety five or six was

439
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: the trial.

440
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: And now we're bent over with walkers. It's not the

441
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: same game. But again I just I was stunned. I mean,

442
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 2: I just where did this come from?

443
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: Now another aspect of the case is I can sense

444
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: things are often about money, and the county prosecutor is

445
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 1: in charge of representing judges and prosecutors because the county

446
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 1: prosecutor has civil responsibilities, thinking as a civil attorney, which

447
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: I think neither maybe you two or none. I don't

448
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 1: know you're on the Supreme Court and you're retired more

449
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: or less. What does it do when the county prosecutor

450
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: representing the judges and the prosecutors and the sheriff, et cetera,

451
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 1: come in open forums and say, you know what, we

452
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: cheat it not we, but you guys cheated, you withheld

453
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: evidence and there's new stuff that isn't new stuff. What

454
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: does that do for the liability of Hamilman County.

455
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: To me, you're saying we are liable. You know, there's

456
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 2: two things in a civil suit. A is are you

457
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 2: liable for it? And b as how much money do

458
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,719
Speaker 2: you get? And she is the has a civil division

459
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: that represents the county against lawsuits, and she's basically saying,

460
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: we didn't accidentally we may have intentionally sent an innocent

461
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 2: man to death row. I don't think it's if it's

462
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 2: when Ellwood's going to file this huge civil suit against

463
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: the county, and if i'm them, witness number one is

464
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: County Pillage. Hey, you said he's exonerated and the office cheated.

465
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 3: I might I sent this letter to the Attorney General's

466
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 3: office today also because if he makes his ridiculous claim

467
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: though at least no where to go to talk to

468
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 3: about the facts of the case. I just want to

469
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 3: make it very clear to your listener's bill, my office

470
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: doesn't cheat. To make that statement is highly offensive. Elwood

471
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 3: Jones is a murderer. We had the right guy, absolutely

472
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: positively sure, and.

473
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: She let him go. Now why she let him go,

474
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: I have.

475
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 3: No idea, But her reasons that she stayed in her

476
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 3: press conference are ridiculous, and they're so easily proved as false.

477
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 3: I can't believe she said it. At this point, where

478
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 3: do we go from here? Ellwood?

479
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 1: Right now?

480
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 3: Elwood is a freeman and there's absolutely nothing that can

481
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 3: be done about it. But I just hope that some

482
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 3: truth comes out of that office. You know, when they

483
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: make decisions like this of this magnitude. This is a

484
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: thirty year old death penalty case, and everyone forgets about

485
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 3: Rhoda Nathan, everyone forgets about the victims family, and they're

486
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 3: this suffering. I talked to her son a couple of

487
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 3: times over the weekend, and his hurt is like it

488
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 3: happened yesterday. Connie said he was disappointed. Yeah, she said,

489
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 3: he's furious. And as a matter of fact, we gave

490
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: I think you have his statement bill that he made.

491
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 3: He's stunned, he's sick to his stomach. It went beyond disappointment.

492
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: Mark Pete Maher as far as it's inexplicable, how this

493
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: diamond special brooch just happened to show up in the

494
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: toolbox of Elwood Jones. And there's no answer other than

495
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: somebody planeted it. Uh, you know the O. J. Simpson defense.

496
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: Somebody somebody killed, you know, the two gloves and the

497
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: blood and the car. Someone did it, and so can

498
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: you state for the record. I feel silly asking this

499
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: question whether you plant it, the diamond brooch and the

500
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: toolbox along with the pass key and the chain link.

501
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: Did you plant or did blue eh police plan it

502
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: to make sure an innocent man was convicted and a

503
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: guilty man sent free. Can you admit whether or not

504
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 1: you did that or not? I want a lawyer. You

505
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: want a lawyer. Take the fifth bill.

506
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 3: If if they're going to frame Elwood, why don't just

507
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: get somebody wrote his blood and throw it around his

508
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 3: car or throw it on his clothes.

509
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 1: The other thing.

510
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: One of the first officers interviewed him and he wasn't

511
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 2: in custody yet, and they talked to him. They could

512
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: have said, you know, he told me I didn't mean

513
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: to kill her. I didn't think anybody be in I mean,

514
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 2: they could make up a statement. The important thing is, too,

515
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 2: is when as soon as that other couple got back

516
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 2: to the room, they noticed her necklace was gone. So

517
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: it's not like it was laying on the floor and

518
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,959
Speaker 2: an officer could have picked it up. And plus, why

519
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 2: would you You're thinking this is a piece of evidence.

520
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 2: You're going to put it into evidence. You're going to

521
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 2: put it in a little baggy, you're gonna print it,

522
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: You're gonna do that. So theoretically one of the officers

523
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: got that, held it till the right time, and then

524
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 2: somehow put it in his toolbox. It's just physically, I

525
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 2: don't know how you could do it.

526
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 1: So, in a sense, indirectly or directly, Hamnica Prosecutor's office

527
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: is accusing a dead blue ash police officer of planning

528
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: evidence in the capital case. Yes, Joe, how does well?

529
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: It's that's absurd.

530
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 3: It's one of many offensive statements made by this office

531
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 3: that I would hope people ask the hard questions, how

532
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 3: can you exclude this guy? How can you make these

533
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 3: statements that people hit stuff. I mean, it's just false.

534
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: It's it is blatantly false. And that's one thing. And

535
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: I said before, if she wants to let the guy go,

536
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 3: that's her. I mean, she's a prosecutor, have mercy. You know,

537
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 3: he's been in there thirty years, whatever, go ahead, let

538
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: him go. But to then use just falsehoods for the

539
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: reason that evidence was hidden and that new medical scientific

540
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,120
Speaker 3: evidence has excluded him, that's just false. And someone else confessed,

541
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: I mean, she's making false statements, I mean, just to

542
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 3: her constituents about this case and impugning the reputation of

543
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 3: really good prosecutors that devoted their lives to public service.

544
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 3: And she, you know, she just casually makes that offensive comment,

545
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: and it's horrible.

546
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: Do you have a concern in the future there's other

547
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: noted cases that you two guys handled, and you're two

548
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: of one of one hundred and fifty prosecutors in Hamlin County.

549
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: When you two guys are there.

550
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 3: Well, she listens to defense attorneys and not talk to

551
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 3: the prosecutors. She's gonna come the same conclusion on a

552
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 3: bunch of cases. There's not the case of Woganstall Tracy Hunter.

553
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,320
Speaker 1: Just line them up let's come up with something here,

554
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: Anthony Anthony Kirkland. After all the defense counsel said, you know,

555
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: is he is he executed yet?

556
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: No, but he's there's that SMI defense serial mental illness

557
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: that they found a doctor to say he has that,

558
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 2: and if he does, the judge can take him off

559
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 2: death row, but.

560
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 3: Not only off that. Ell would not off death row.

561
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 3: He got to know our bond and it's walking around

562
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 3: Hamilton County right now.

563
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 4: Well he's he.

564
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 3: Doesn't even have to know our bond anymore. He's free

565
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: with prejudice, which means it's over. It could ever be refiled.

566
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 3: Are you concerned this will be repeated? As part of

567
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: your motivation coming here today is to say, okay, this

568
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 3: is Elwood Jones. He got thirty years, which is better

569
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: than nothing. But worry about the next case, in the

570
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 3: next case, in the next case. Have you concerned this

571
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 3: this will be repeated?

572
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 4: I hope it's not, but.

573
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,959
Speaker 3: You know, unfortunately, I'll have to speak out on it

574
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: again if it does, and I will, especially if she

575
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 3: uses the reason, oh we hid evidence or you know

576
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: something that's totally false scientifically, I mean it's just false.

577
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 4: I don't know how else to say it.

578
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: And as far as the dead police officer in blue

579
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: ash his name's been out there, I hesitate to repeat it.

580
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: She's indirectly accusing him or someone like him, of committing

581
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: serious felonies while wearing the uniform of a police officer.

582
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: He's and by all counts, was a great police officer.

583
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 1: And you know Marx has said this before. You know,

584
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: he's got kids, he's got a wife, and to hear

585
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 1: your dead father talked about like this, and if nothing else,

586
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: I mean, somebody has to stand up for a road

587
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 1: to Nathan.

588
00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 3: I mean she she came to this this tell for

589
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 3: a bar mitzvah from New Jersey, Yeah, and was brutally murdered.

590
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 3: The evidence is overwhelming on Elwood Jones, and it just

591
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 3: seems like her name gets lost in the shuffle here.

592
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, came here for a Jewish shavenna about Smithsmah and

593
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: all of a sudden she has her teeth punched down

594
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: into her stomach. Can you imagine the violence of that attack?

595
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: She sixty seven year old woman with Elwood had no chance,

596
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: but she fought like a warrior poet and she lost,

597
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: and she lost her money out of her purse. She

598
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 1: lost her life, she lost her diamond brooch, almost as

599
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: if she said, the killer has my diamond brooch.

600
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 3: She lost her life, but think about what her family

601
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 3: lost because by all accounts, and I talked to her again.

602
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 3: I talked to her son Val over the weekend twice.

603
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 3: She was just a lovely woman. Just she kept their

604
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 3: family together. And the loss they feel almost hourly.

605
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: And.

606
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 4: Someone needs to speak for her.

607
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 3: And I just wish there is more sensitivity to victims

608
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 3: in that office.

609
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: Mark Pete, maher thank you. Anything that you want to

610
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: add I haven't. I've asked you a few questions here, sir,

611
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: Are you okay? I'm okay, You're okay. I'll say hell

612
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 1: out of my wife, Carol. She's listening.

613
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 2: How many years fifty years in May she going to

614
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 2: keep you or not? We went to the Roger Bacon

615
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: prom together, so, oh my gosh, back in a good

616
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: old day, back in a good old day.

617
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm not sure there was so Joe you okay.

618
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 3: The last thing my wife says said, don't say hi

619
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 3: to me, So I'm not going to do that.

620
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: Well nine stands for news. That's all I know. Well, guys,

621
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: good luck and by the way, you think it's over.

622
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: I think it's just it's over. It's for Elwood is over.

623
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 4: It's over for Elk.

624
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: You come forward and confess now. And there's legally nothing

625
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: you can do about it because she dismissed it with prejudice.

626
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: So Ellwood could say, you know, I found the lord,

627
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: beat up cops, beat up my wife, burglarized a bunch

628
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: of places, went to prison a few times, and then

629
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, I'm sorry I did,

630
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: Murder wrote, I'm very sorry I did, and I beat

631
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,959
Speaker 1: her to death and I shouldn't have done it. But

632
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: I suspect that will not occur. But if it did,

633
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: he's still a free man. Joe, thank you. You worry

634
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: about the future, don't you do? This is one case

635
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: I do. All right, Mark, thank you, sir, thank you.

636
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: Let's continue with more News Radio seven hundred WLW