1 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: Seven to six pair of fifty five pair CIT Talk 2 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: Station and Brian Siminos are the here with in studio 3 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Judge Christopher McDowell and Chris McDowell's going to give us 4 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: a loadown on what's going on with the Hamilton County 5 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: Court House and a little insight on what it's like 6 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: to be a judge sitting in the Hamilton County Court 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: of Common. 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 2: Please. 9 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 1: He's been there since twenty twenty five. His term ends 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: this year. He is on the ballot. There is a 11 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: primary coming up, but he's running unopposed on the Republican 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: side of the Ledger. So Chris McDowell will invariably be 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: on the ballot in November. And he's one of the 14 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: good ones folks. He gets bonds, he understands the criminal 15 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: justice system, and of course he understands the concept of 16 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: the justice system being used for deterrence. If you deserve 17 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: to be sentenced and put away for a long time, 18 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: Judge McDowell's going to do that, most notably an area 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: of fentanyl, as I learned from him. Judge McDowell, great 20 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 1: to have you here today. Thanks for making the time 21 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: to come in. 22 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 3: It's great to be here. And by the way you 23 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 3: look good. 24 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: Oh thanks man, you say that. I so so of 25 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: my listeners. I won't be in on Monday and Tuesday 26 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:11,199 Speaker 1: next week. Today is the first of the two days 27 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: of treatment I get, so I'm going in for my chemo, 28 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: my retuction MAB treatment today, another chemo treatment tomorrow, and 29 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: for the last several treatments, it's wiped me out. So 30 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: Monday and Tuesday we're gonna have who's filling and Dan 31 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: Carroll's filling in for me. So thank you for bringing 32 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: that up. It's a kind thing for you to say. 33 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: And God bless anybody out there struggling with cancer and 34 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: their families. If the ripple effect is not cool, let 35 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: us pivot back. The impetus behind the discussion we're going 36 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: to start out with this morning was the brawl that 37 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: broke out inside of Judge Winkler's courtroom. It was a 38 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: sentencing hearing and apparently the family of the victim was 39 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: not real happy and believe the sentence is handed out 40 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: by Judge Winkler was lenient twelve to seventeen and a 41 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: half years in connection with I believe a murder. 42 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it was a murder case. 43 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 1: So the family reacts and then a brawl breaks out 44 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: and it's bills over into the hallway. You were right 45 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: next door, basically right down the hall. Just explain what 46 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: you had to deal with, and then how this is 47 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: sort of representative of a broader problem with lawlessness in 48 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: the courthouse. 49 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, if we go back to a week before this brawl, 50 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 3: I had contacted the Sheriff's office and told them that 51 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 3: we needed greater security. The day before this happened, I 52 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 3: met with the Sheriff's office and I said, something's going 53 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 3: to happen. We need more security in this courthouse. In 54 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 3: the Common Police court room. What a lot of people 55 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 3: don't know is day in, day out, there is no 56 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: security in the Common Police court You go downstairs where 57 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 3: they're doing traffic cases, there is always a bailiff there 58 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 3: in those courtrooms. In my courtroom, the only time there's 59 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 3: really security is when someone's bringing down an inmate, and 60 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 3: that deputy's duty is to the inmate that he's brought down. 61 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, they bring him into the courtroom and they stand 62 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: there and wait for the proceedings to get over and 63 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: take him back. 64 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 3: Right, And what happened in this day is I heard 65 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 3: a ruckus in the hallway about a half hour before 66 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 3: the brawl, and people were telling me that, you know, 67 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 3: there was a murder case down there. The families was 68 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 3: in the hall ware in the hallway, they were yelling 69 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 3: at the defendant. And then half hour later, just all 70 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 3: heck broke loose. I had an inmate in my courtroom 71 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 3: with a deputy, and I could hear his radio go 72 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 3: off that there was an emergent. They had pushed the 73 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 3: panic button in Judge Winkler's courtroom, and so all the 74 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 3: deputies were responding. And I asked the deputy in my room, 75 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,399 Speaker 3: do you need to respond that to that? And he said, well, 76 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 3: I can't because I have this person here. I've got 77 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 3: to watch this person. And I said, you want to 78 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 3: take him back? He said yes, So I allowed him 79 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 3: to take it back. Then I went out into the 80 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 3: hallway to see what was going on, and I saw 81 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 3: about forty people. Forty people engaged in a fight in 82 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 3: the hallway, and I saw deputies just streaming down the hallway, 83 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 3: other police department agencies. Everybody was responding. I saw police 84 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: officers putting handcuffs on people dragging him out of the fight. 85 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 3: It was an all on brawl and then what happens 86 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 3: that spilled out into the street. They had to close 87 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: two streets in front of the courthouse down, and then 88 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 3: they closed the courthouse down, locked it down. 89 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: I Joe Trekkers in my head said, you didn't hear 90 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: that in the news. Well, that's why my reaction is silence. 91 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: I had no idea that it was that bad. 92 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you one other thing. There was a 93 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 3: homicide detective who was testifying in that murder case and 94 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 3: he was hurt. He struck his head and he got 95 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 3: a concussion, and he was expected to testify that same 96 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 3: day in another murder case in another courtroom. And that 97 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 3: other murder case they were picking a jury, they were 98 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 3: just about to swear the jury in when they had 99 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: to call off the whole case because that homicide detective 100 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: was so injured that he could not testify in the 101 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 3: other murder case. 102 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: Well, in addition to shutting the entire courthouse down, yes, 103 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: that proceeding was not going to go forward. So it 104 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: is this illustrative of a broader problem. I mean, I 105 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: think this compared to when I used to work there, 106 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: and we're going back a lot of you as judge, 107 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: it was the early eighties of or for Judge Panieto 108 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: in the fourth floor in the Domestic Relations court, which 109 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: is no longer there. But I never even had a 110 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: sense of concern at all about safety in the courthouse. 111 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: It was like, to me, the last place in the 112 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: world anybody would want to start getting violent or you know, 113 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: committing some sort of crime, because there are a lot 114 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: of sheriff's deputies walking around the building there. As you 115 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: point out, they're there for a variety of different reasons. 116 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: But you had an unbelievable sense of security. I guess 117 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: those days are gone. 118 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 3: They're entirely gone. The people have no respect for the law, 119 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 3: They have no respect for themselves, they have no respect 120 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 3: to our institutions of government in any way. It's people 121 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 3: who are sitting in the gallery. They'll just stand up 122 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 3: and start yelling, yelling at me, yelling at the other 123 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 3: people in the courtroom, and I have to throw them 124 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 3: out of the courtroom. 125 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 2: Can you find them in contempt? 126 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 3: I can find people in contempt. One of the reasons 127 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 3: I went out into the hallway is I have the 128 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 3: authority to, you know, just basically summer summarily find someone 129 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 3: in contempt. And I can hold you up for up 130 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 3: to six months. 131 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: Have you had to invoke that power. 132 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 3: Now, I'm not yet. Uh. Usually when I yell at 133 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 3: people and kick them out of the courtroom, that's that's sufficient. 134 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: And well that still works. 135 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: I'm shocked that that still works, your honor, I really am, 136 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: because if they have enough lack of respect for you 137 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: and the courtroom proceedings generally, then I can't imagine you know, 138 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 1: you're you're yelling and at them would have any impact. 139 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: Well, and that that was my concern is someday there's 140 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 3: not that's not gonna happen, and someone's gonna come at 141 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 3: me and there's no one between that gallery and me 142 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 3: unless there just happens to be a deputy in the room. 143 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I do remember when I worked for 144 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: the for Judge Panioto, one of the magistrates actually pulled 145 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: out a firearm headed in his top drawer. So I 146 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:49,919 Speaker 1: know some of the judges at least are armed, and 147 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: I can certainly understand the reason why they might want 148 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: to be. You never won't have to to use that 149 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: as a last resort, but if you're if you're threatening 150 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: with a violent circumstance where your life is imperils you 151 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: reasonably perceive it to be, you are allowed to do that, 152 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: and if you don't have enough SHARE's deputies around to 153 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: help you out and avoid that kind of thing. I mean, 154 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: it seems to me maybe a moment in time, given 155 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: how unruly folks are in the court system, we moment 156 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: in time away from something. 157 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: Like that happening. Anyway. 158 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: Do you mentioned in our conversation off air the juvenile 159 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: courts a real problem within the juvenile courts generally, So 160 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: what's going on over the juvenile courts? 161 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 3: Well, there's no repercussions for people's actions. These juveniles are 162 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 3: out committing crimes on our streets, they get apprehended. When 163 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 3: they do get apprehended, they're taken to the juvenile court 164 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 3: and then you know, they're given an essay to write 165 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 3: first for violent offense, or they're just told to come 166 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 3: back later. They're not getting consequences for their actions. Twenty twenty, 167 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 3: which is a juvenile holding center is practically empty. They 168 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 3: just are not incarcerating juveniles at all. In juveniles know this. 169 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 3: They're not stupid, they know they know there's no consequences 170 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 3: for their actions. Consequence at home and there's no consequences 171 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 3: in the court system for the way they behave. 172 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: Well, and this is what the left wingers, the reform advocates, 173 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: argue that, well, we can't give a juvenile a record 174 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: because that'll render him in err HER's case, maybe incapable 175 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: of getting employment. That record will follow them throughout their 176 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: entire life. Well, you and I both know you can 177 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: have those records expunge at some point, if, for example, 178 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: they take and they learn the lesson from being processed 179 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: through the justice system and suffering a consequence for it, 180 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: maybe they won't do it again, and then they'll be 181 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 1: worthy of having the record expunge down the road. 182 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 3: Well, in addition, juvenile records are sealed, sealed, sealed, They're 183 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: sealed from the very beginning. 184 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 2: So I see that's the development I was not aware. 185 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so once you turn eighteen, it's the employer can't 186 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: look you up on the computer like you could an 187 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 3: adult and see the juvenile record, and so they're sealed 188 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 3: from the very beginning. So there's really not a good 189 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 3: reason to not have a consequence in juvenile court. 190 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, you certainly don't want to perpetuate that. What I 191 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: wish was a myth that there will be no concert 192 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: quin there are clearly no consequences for them and ergo 193 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 1: no incentive to follow the law. 194 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they grow up and they end up 195 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 3: in my courtroom where there is a consequence. 196 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: Huge consequence. Yeah. 197 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: You want to be in front of Chris McDowell and 198 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 1: on a criminal rap. Oh no you don't. Let's talk 199 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: about that because I know you have a few murder 200 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: cases on your docket. This is frightening stuff, folks. We're 201 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: going to continue with Judge McDowell after these brief words, 202 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: beginning with foreign exchange. I love foreign Exchange head Austin 203 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: from me talk station sevent nineteen videbov kc DE talk station, 204 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: Happy Friday, Eve, you're doing some veterans love the bottom 205 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: of the art at Matt and Marias returns to Bets 206 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 1: and Bruce gives some insight on the information on the 207 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 1: bourbon raffle. In the meantime, Judge Christopher McDowell he is 208 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: on Hamilton County Cortacomma Police bench and he'll be there 209 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: until November one. We'll have an opportunity to vote him 210 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: back into the bench. 211 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 2: You want him there. 212 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: He's tough on crime and he understands the realities and 213 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 1: the purpose of bonds. You got a lot of I 214 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: will call woke judges down there my label, not yours, judge. 215 00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: It always blows my mind when a recid of it, 216 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,599 Speaker 1: someone who has an extensive criminal background ends up in 217 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: front of one of these woke judges, as I like 218 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: to call them, and they're issued either a own recognizance 219 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: bond or a very very low cash bond. You know, 220 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 1: if you one thousand dollars ten percent, you got to 221 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: put one hundred bucks down and you got a felony 222 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: rap sheet. You were caught with a weapon while under disability, 223 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: and then you're not allowed to have a weapon. How 224 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: does somebody like that get on the street. Don't they 225 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: represent a threat to the public at large as well 226 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 1: as a flight risk all that absolutely. 227 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 3: One of the things that I've started doing, and one 228 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 3: of the things people don't understand is the bonds are 229 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,599 Speaker 3: initially set by the municipal court judges. So it's not 230 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 3: until after someone is indicted on the felony that they 231 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 3: come up to the Common Police Court and at that 232 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 3: time and only at that time, can I set a bond. 233 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 3: So you saw this shooting, at this nightclub. That person 234 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,199 Speaker 3: has not been indicted yet, so the municipal court judge 235 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 3: sets that bond and I have no authority over that 236 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 3: bond until the person's been indicted. It used to be 237 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 3: that the common police registrate would set the bond once 238 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: they were indicted. Now there's a couple of us more 239 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 3: socially conscious of violent criminals. We set our own bonds. 240 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: I bring them into this morning. I have two cases 241 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 3: in which I'm going to be doing the arraignments, and 242 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 3: I'm going to be setting the bonds personally because these 243 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: people are on my docket. I'm responsible for these cases, 244 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 3: and bonds need to be appropriate, particularly for violent offenders. 245 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 1: No question about it. And you know, talking about your 246 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: personal docket, frightening figure. You have thirteen murders on your 247 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: plate right now, cases over which you are going to 248 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: be presiding. 249 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 3: That's right, thirteen and some of them have been lingering 250 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 3: on the docket for years. 251 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I asked you about that. I said, well, how 252 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: old are they because thirteen murders, this could have all 253 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: been recent. But you're only one of. 254 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:50,960 Speaker 2: Sixteen sixteen judges. 255 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 3: So you take that thirteen number in your times at 256 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 3: by sixteen and that's an approximation of how many murder 257 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 3: cases are pending in Hamilton County right now. 258 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: The backlog seems extraordinary, and the prosecutor's office has a 259 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: tough road to ho in proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. 260 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: That takes a lot of work, and I think most 261 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: people really don't have any idea about all the prep 262 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: work that goes in to trying one of those cases. 263 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: From the initial hot let's say homicide, the gathering of 264 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: evidence and all the information about the police department, the 265 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 1: interviews that takes a long time, that has to be 266 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: handed over to the prosecutor's office. They have to put 267 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 1: it all together in a format that's understandable. You got 268 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: to go in front of the jury and address all 269 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: the defense arguments. It's a tough process. And I just 270 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:38,199 Speaker 1: wonder because we often see, you know, plea deals reached 271 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: and you're like, wait a second, how in the hell 272 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: on that heinous crime did they end up with such 273 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: a sweetheart plea deal? And I had an out loud 274 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,959 Speaker 1: question to ask you, which is our prosecutors sort of 275 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:53,719 Speaker 1: maybe given up? It is a lot of work, and 276 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: isn't it easier to just sort of all right, I'll 277 00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: negotiate a deal with the defense lawyer, and yeah, it 278 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 1: will be a little bit lean, but that's one less 279 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: case on my plate. 280 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. And the other thing you've seen in the prosecutor's 281 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 3: office is the turnover and prosecutors. This current prosecutor has 282 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 3: fired a number of very senior, very complicated cases that 283 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 3: had very good veterans. And so then what happens is 284 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,599 Speaker 3: you've had they've been working on a case for a 285 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 3: year and a half, two years, and now a whole 286 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 3: new team comes in and they want to start all over. 287 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 3: And so this is one of the reasons that these 288 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 3: cases have been dragging out. 289 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: Now, I guess I have to sort of raise the spector. 290 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: Why were they let go? Is this a disagreement over 291 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 1: perhaps prosecutorial philosophy. Are they maybe a little bit or 292 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: were they maybe a little bit more hardline and interested 293 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: in bringing about justice and seeing that justicees served. They 294 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: aren't part of the world culture because County Pillage seems 295 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: to be I. 296 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 3: Think all of the above. Some of these people have 297 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 3: been let go, and we have no idea the reason 298 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 3: why they were let go. O. 299 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: Oh, nobody knows why police Chief dj was let go 300 00:13:58,360 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: either there, Judgment. 301 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the same thing. It's a turnover. It's now 302 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 3: the Democrats are in charge and the Republican prosecutors who 303 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 3: are left over from the old administration, who have the 304 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 3: experience in these cases are being let go left, right 305 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 3: and center and leaving us in a total lurch. 306 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: Brick in my heart this morning. You're judgment's cold water? 307 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: Does reality? Well need to go about it? And I 308 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: going back and I this really irked me. You mentioned 309 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: the police officer that got injured in the brawl that 310 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: took place next to you and Judge Winkler's court room, 311 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: the initial topic of conversation, and that he wouldn't have 312 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: been able to testify in a try because his head 313 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: had been injured and was fairly substantial. That was a 314 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: direct consequence of the brawl. You asked the Sheriff's department, asked, 315 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: I guess the sheriff about this? Were there any injuries 316 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: and what was charmage mcguffey's response to that. 317 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 3: The Sheriff's office issue the office date. They issued an 318 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: office statement saying no one had been injured in the brawl, 319 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 3: no one, when they knew for a fact that that 320 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 3: homicide detective had been injured. And so someone that said 321 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 3: to me, well, they say that no one's injured. I said, no, 322 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 3: I know this homicide detective has been injured because this 323 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 3: other murder case had to be postponed. 324 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: And you say the sheriff's department was aware of the injury. 325 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, they were aware of the injury. 326 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: So the statement from the sheriff's office, you know, let 327 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: me just boil it down. My perception of that is 328 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: it was a lie, completely contrary to the known facts. 329 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: An officer was in fact injured and they said no 330 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: one was injured. All right, I appreciate that we can 331 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: take comfort in the Sheriff's department and providing us with 332 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: well accurate information. Judge Chris McDowell, it has been a 333 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: real distinct pleasure he having you here in the fifty 334 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: five Carcy Morning Show studio. 335 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: I wish you well. 336 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: I know you don't have to worry about the primary, 337 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: but we'll see what we can do between now and 338 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: November to keep people's minds on you and recognize that 339 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: elections have consequences, and we don't want war judges, and 340 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: we certainly don't want woke prosecutors. We'll have another chance 341 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: to deal with the prosecutors officers at some point. Judge 342 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 1: McDowell a real pleasure, sir. Keep up the great work, 343 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: thank you very much. Oh and if you're a fentanel dealer, 344 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: you're in for a world of hurt if you end 345 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: up in Judge McDowell's courtroom. I'm just letting you know 346 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: right now.