1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Get Connected with Nina Del Rio, a weekly 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: conversation about fitness, health and happenings in our community on 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: one oh six point seven light FM. 4 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 2: Good morning, and thanks for listening to Get Connected. Unless 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 2: you are the child of a celebrity, your kid is 6 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 2: likely more famous than you are already Internet famous bits 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 2: of their lives are posted online every day, and your 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: kid is now growing up with far less privacy in 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 2: control over their public image. Parents too, are tracking and 10 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: following and judging their kids world via devices in a 11 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 2: way that didn't exist before. Our guest is doctor Devora 12 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 2: Heidner with her new book Growing Up in Public, Coming 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 2: of Age in a Digital World, where she shares research 14 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: backed advice about caregiving in the digital age. Doctor Devaora Heidner, 15 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 2: thank you for being on the show. 16 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,159 Speaker 2: Doctor Heidner's writing on kids and technology has appeared in 18 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: The New York Times, The Washington Post, Fast Company, and others. 19 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 2: Her previous book, screen Wise, Helping Kids Thrive and Survive 20 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: in their Digital world world, was an Amazon bestseller. So 21 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: you wrote that book and parents are still worried. They're 22 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 2: worried about their kids, what they're doing, they're showing their singing, 23 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: where they're going. What are you bringing to the table 24 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 2: with this book? 25 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 3: So this book is really about the ways kids are 26 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 3: growing up surveilled. Right, Their friends can share a video 27 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 3: of them and get them into big trouble and take 28 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 3: something they said potentially out of context. Their schools are 29 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 3: tracking them. They can get in trouble for something they 30 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 3: say on the school network, and their parents are tracking them. 31 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 3: So our kids are under the microscope. And I think 32 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 3: a lot of parents recognize that sort of peer sharing 33 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: danger or that their kid may share something themselves frankly 34 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 3: that nukes their reputation and may be less aware of 35 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 3: the ways that they as parents, as we I include myself, 36 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 3: we as parents can be potentially a privacy threat to 37 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 3: our own kids or a reputation threat. 38 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: What is it like for a kid to see their 39 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: worlds judged in real time by not just parents and friends, 40 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 2: but teachers too. 41 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 3: I think it's really depersonalizing, right, So, like say you're 42 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 3: looking at yourself in the eyes of an app like 43 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 3: Naviance for College Admissions, and you're seeing yourself as a 44 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 3: dot on a graph. And imagine if you were in 45 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 3: your workplace and your performance was being charted on a 46 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: public graph that other people at work had access to. 47 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 3: I mean, that's a lot of information, and I think 48 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 3: it's it's very depersonalizing. It's like nobody's telling your individual story. 49 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,200 Speaker 3: They're seeing you, you know, as a data point. 50 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 2: There's also this interesting thing I think, you know, for 51 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 2: adult social media, being connected to our phones. Even if 52 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: you're looking at a cat video and you're laughing, it 53 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily feel great. I think so many adults we 54 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: feel guilty about it. How does a fourteen year old feel, though? 55 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: How do they relate to their phones? 56 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 3: I mean, for a fourteen year old, their phone is 57 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 3: an extension of their body honestly in many ways, and 58 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 3: they do feel a little lost without it. It is 59 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 3: how they deal with, you know, reminding themselves to do things. 60 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 3: They're setting alarms for themselves. I talked to a kid 61 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 3: yesterday who his phone's starts insulting him if he doesn't, 62 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 3: you know, change what he's doing. If if his timer 63 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 3: goes off, he has it like set to this aggressive 64 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 3: mode some app that's like saying like you jerk or whatever, 65 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 3: like maybe saltier language than that to provoke him to 66 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,079 Speaker 3: doing things. And other kids talked about using rewards like 67 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 3: the bakery app or the forest app that kind of 68 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 3: use more like the carrot rather than the stick, to 69 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 3: kind of get you to do what you want. So 70 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 3: they're using their phones to motivate themselves. They're using their 71 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 3: phones to navigate boredom. They're using their phones when they 72 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 3: feel awkward socially so they don't have to look at 73 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 3: each other in the face all the time. So their 74 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 3: phones become incredibly, incredibly important to them. 75 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: There's also something much different for them too, which in 76 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 2: a way is lovely. I think kids are more likely 77 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 2: to share details about their sexual orientation or their questioning 78 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,600 Speaker 2: of it, or their mental health or their neurodiversity. For adults, 79 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 2: you know, I think we see a longer. We can 80 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 2: see the future maybe, or we see where that goes. 81 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: Your thoughts about you know, what that's sharing means to 82 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 2: them and what we should be telling them about that. 83 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 3: Well, I think we grew up with a huge level 84 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 3: of stigma around even seeking help for any kind of 85 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 3: mental health. Like when I was a teenager, I saw 86 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: a therapist for depression, but I didn't tell anyone that 87 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 3: I saw a therapist, and nobody said Devora don't tell 88 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 3: anyone you're in therapy. I just picked it up from 89 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 3: the culture. I just picked up that this wasn't something 90 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: we talk about, you know. It's I was lucky to 91 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 3: have that resource, but it just I just would say 92 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 3: to my friends that I had to go to work 93 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 3: or I had to go I did not say have therapy. 94 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 3: And now the fact that kids could disclose something like 95 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 3: I'm in treatment for mental health, or I identify as 96 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 3: LGBTQ plus, or I'm neurodiverse, I have ADHD, or I'm 97 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 3: on the spectrum, these are things we were all again 98 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 3: not even actively discouraged from sharing. It was just the culture, right. 99 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: It was like nobody even said, oh, don't come out 100 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: in high school if you identify as gay. Right, it 101 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 3: was like not even on the menu in the same 102 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,159 Speaker 3: way for many kids. And I think some kids did 103 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 3: come out in my high school. I started high school 104 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty nine. There were some kids who came out, 105 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 3: but it was much more unusual in that era than 106 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 3: it is now. And the fact that kids are sharing 107 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: on the internet about these aspects of their identity makes 108 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 3: parents very nervous because we grew up with all the 109 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 3: stigma and we were worried our kids won't get a 110 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 3: job or that they'll face a media harassment. But what 111 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 3: we have to understand is our kids are actually changing 112 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 3: the culture. Our kids are making the culture better through 113 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 3: all this disclosure. Nobody's obligated to make these disclosures, So 114 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 3: I want to be clear, Like, if your kids in therapy, 115 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 3: they don't have to tell anybody. I still think it's totally, 116 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 3: absolutely their right to keep that private. But I'm glad 117 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,479 Speaker 3: to live in a world where you could say to 118 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 3: your friends that you're in therapy, or that you could 119 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 3: come out as gay or lesbian or bisexual, transgender to 120 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 3: your friends, right, I'm glad to live in that world 121 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 3: where that's also on the table, or you could let 122 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: your friends know that you have ADHD, and that that 123 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: possibility changes the ways those all those very different identity 124 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 3: categories are considered, so that hopefully we'll see less harassment, 125 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 3: less workplace discrimination because so many people will be out 126 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 3: in these ways. I mean, I think you can also 127 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 3: say to yourself, if say, if your kid you know, 128 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 3: identifies in one of these identity categories that you're worried 129 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 3: about discrimination, would you want them to have a job 130 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: where they wouldn't be welcome, or would you want them 131 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 3: to go work for an employer who's affirming. So that's 132 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 3: even like another level of thinking about that question. But 133 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 3: I think it's really tough for adults to even really 134 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 3: wrap our minds around the waves kids are changing the 135 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: culture about disclosure. It's so different than what we grew 136 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 3: up with. 137 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: Our guest is doctor Devora Heidner, author of the book 138 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: Growing Up in Public, Coming of Age in a Digital World, 139 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 2: helping caregivers, educators, and kids navigate growing up in a 140 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 2: world where nearly every moment of their lives can be 141 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: shared and compared. You're listening to get connected on one 142 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 2: O six point seven light FM. I'm in a del rio, 143 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: And what you were just saying, doctor Heidner, is one 144 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 2: of the things I really like about this book. It 145 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: sort of helps adults maybe understand the world that kids 146 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 2: are living in. At your workshops for elementary and middle schools, 147 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: I love this example. You ask kids to step into 148 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 2: a circle if a friend has shared an embarrassing photo 149 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: of them online, and a few kids might step in, 150 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: But when you ask them to step in if a 151 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: parent has shared something embarrassing, just about every kid steps 152 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 2: in and just being aware at some point in your 153 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: life that parents have been posting images of you doing 154 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: things as a kid can be a shock sharing things 155 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: about your kid's life. What should parents know? What should 156 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 2: parents ask themselves and their kids about posting? 157 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 3: I think it consent is so important when we're talking 158 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 3: about sharing about our kids. So obviously, if you have 159 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: a baby or a toddler, you need to use your 160 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 3: own best judgment and think about into the future. Will 161 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 3: my kid, as a self conscious thirteen year old or 162 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 3: fifteen year old be upset with me for sharing this 163 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 3: particular image of them as a toddler or as a 164 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: preschooler as they get older. Consent is a wonderful way 165 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 3: to teach kids that it's okay to have boundaries, that 166 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: they can say no to having their photo shared. And truly, 167 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 3: you're preparing them four times when they're with friends, and 168 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 3: they will know to ask, hey, is it okay if 169 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 3: I post this picture of us at the beach or 170 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 3: at the mall, or even a situation where someone might 171 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: ask them for a more explicit photo, and they're going 172 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 3: to be more prepared and grounded to say, heck no, 173 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 3: I don't want to share a picture of myself with 174 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 3: no clothes with you, because they feel confident that it's 175 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 3: okay to say no to sharing a picture and that 176 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 3: no one has a right to share their picture without 177 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 3: their consent. 178 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about checking your kid's browsing history 179 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 2: for a moment with an anecdote of my own. So 180 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 2: sixty one percent of parents say they check their teen's 181 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 2: website browsing history, about half look into their phone call logs, 182 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: and about half have access to their teen's email account. Interestingly, 183 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 2: not all of those parents tell their kids they're monitoring them. 184 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,199 Speaker 2: When I was about fourteen, my mother read my diary 185 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: You made a bunch of excuses, and she said she 186 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 2: was sorry, and then she read some things back to 187 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: me that she had completely misinterpreted. It bugged me then 188 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: and still obviously bugs me because I'm bringing it up 189 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: a million years later. How do kids feel about being 190 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: monitored and misinterpreted? And what about not telling your kids 191 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: you're even looking at their private messages. 192 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 3: I think covert surveillance, which I kind of jokingly call 193 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 3: in the book, going all nssay on your kids is 194 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 3: not a good strategy, because, first of all, there's no 195 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 3: endgame there. What do you do if you see something? 196 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: How do you confront your child with it or help 197 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 3: your child with it if it's a problem, if you 198 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 3: don't let them know you were looking. So Ideally, any 199 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 3: kind of monitoring we do is part of a bigger 200 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 3: strategy of mentoring. So you get your eleven year old 201 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 3: to watch they're texting. Maybe you sit down with them 202 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:48,719 Speaker 3: and look at some of their early texts to make 203 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 3: sure they're getting it right, that they're using good etiquette, 204 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 3: that they're navigating it well. You're not covertly reading all 205 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 3: of their texts, which also exposes you to their friends communication, which, 206 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 3: by the way, kids cannot stand. One of their big 207 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: reasons kids don't want their parents reading their texts is 208 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 3: then their friends also will feel hesitant to communicate with them. Say, 209 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 3: my best friend is writing a text to me, and 210 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: she thought my husband read all my texts, she might 211 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 3: be much less likely to want to, you know, tell 212 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 3: me everything that's going on with her and have a 213 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 3: high level of disclosure with me. Right, So, if your 214 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: child's friends feel like they you know, your their mom 215 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 3: or dad is reading everything on the group text, that's 216 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 3: going to be you know, really a fact what children 217 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 3: will even or other kids or teens or teens will 218 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 3: want it to say to your kid. So that's a 219 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 3: whole set of issues. But to come back to disclosing 220 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 3: or not, if you don't tell your kid you're looking, 221 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 3: then you can't use it as a teaching tool. And 222 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 3: ideally you're not looking separately from them if you're looking 223 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 3: at all. It's like the ways our parents taught us 224 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 3: to answer the phone by hearing us on the phone 225 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 3: and being like, hey, you didn't answer the phone very politely, 226 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 3: let me go over with you again. How you can 227 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 3: do that. That's the level of in the early texting days. 228 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 3: You may want to look at some of the texts 229 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 3: with them again and do it in a way that 230 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 3: you're using it as a tech teaching moment, right because 231 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 3: they are thumbing out those texts silently, so it's not 232 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 3: like you're in a position to overhear what they're saying, 233 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 3: but getting the full transcript of everything they're texting. I mean, 234 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 3: who has time, right, You have a job, you may 235 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 3: have other children, you have a life. You probably don't 236 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 3: have time to read all your kids communication. You don't 237 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 3: want to relive the trauma of middle school again, and 238 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 3: you're going to get those things like your mother did 239 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 3: out of context, including your kid's complaints about you, which 240 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 3: is such an important part of the adolescent process of individuation. 241 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 3: And so I mean I wrote in the book about 242 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: walking home with a friend and the first time I 243 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 3: heard a peer say I hate my mother. It would 244 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 3: not have been helpful for her mother or my mother 245 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 3: or to hear that conversation, but it was an important 246 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 3: conversation for us to have in terms of where we 247 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: were at developmentally. So kids need that space to talk 248 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 3: to one another without us listening in. At the same time, 249 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 3: I do think kids need some mentoring about how to communicate. 250 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 3: So how do we do this without going all ns 251 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 3: and our kids. I think the compromise is that some 252 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 3: of the time is actually early on. They're sharing some 253 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 3: of the communication with us as part of a learning process. 254 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: We only have a couple of minutes left. I definitely 255 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: want to get to mistakes because sometime someone's going to 256 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: make a mistake on social media. You do talk about 257 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 2: the strategy of taking away social media backfiring, but when 258 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 2: a mistake happens, something goes public, that's embarrassing, that's not great. 259 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 2: How do you repair that? 260 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 3: Ideally, kids are repairing in the moment and in the 261 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,679 Speaker 3: community where it happens. So if it's your school community, 262 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 3: if it's a specific person, like say you've said something 263 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 3: really mean about a teacher, you're repairing in that relationship. 264 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 3: And ideally it's happening not because you got called out 265 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,359 Speaker 3: or got in trouble, but because you feel bad. Sometimes 266 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 3: first you get in trouble and then you feel bad. 267 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 3: But we do need to give kids the opportunity to 268 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 3: move forward. We don't need to be replaying their mistakes, 269 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,640 Speaker 3: even if we still have literally the tape, right, even 270 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 3: if we have the video or the photo later. And 271 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 3: so I also think as a society we need to 272 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 3: figure out what to do with those receipts because sometimes 273 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 3: we do have evidence of a fifteen year old doing something, 274 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 3: you know, pretty problematic. It might be saying silly, in 275 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:06,199 Speaker 3: which case maybe we can more easily let it go. 276 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 3: But what if it's something hateful, right, like using a 277 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 3: slur And those are some of the examples I get 278 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 3: into in the book where I think communities need to 279 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 3: take those things very seriously. But what I don't think 280 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 3: we want to do is focus on running that child 281 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 3: out of town on a rail. I think we need 282 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 3: to focus on the whole community and see that video 283 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 3: or photo as evidence that the community needs to do 284 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 3: a better job educating all of the kids, and that 285 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: the safety of the targeted group needs to be the focus, 286 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 3: not just you know, consequences for that one kid. We 287 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 3: need to treat that that video or photo when it 288 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 3: surfaces as the canary in the coal mine and assume 289 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 3: that if one kid is using us slur in a community, 290 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 3: other kids are using it and the targeted community is 291 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 3: hearing it. So how can we support that targeted community? 292 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: You know, if it's a homophobic slur, how are we 293 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 3: supporting LGBTQ plus kids. If it's a racist slur, how 294 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 3: are we supporting kids of color? Like, what are we 295 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 3: doing to make those kids feel safe and feel heard 296 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 3: and to learn more about their experience. When we focus 297 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:05,880 Speaker 3: only on the individual perpetrator who got caught, that's a 298 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 3: very disproportionate consequence, and we may be putting that kid 299 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 3: in a really desperate situation where it's hard for them 300 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: to move forward. If we're over exposing their mistake, it's 301 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 3: harder for them to repair. 302 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 2: There's so much more in the book Growing Up in Public, 303 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: Coming of Age in a Digital World by doctor Devorah Heidner. 304 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:24,160 Speaker 2: Thank you for being on to Get Connected. 305 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 3: Thank you. 306 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: This has been Get Connected with Nina del Rio on 307 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: one oh six point seven light Fm. The views and 308 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views 309 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 1: of the station. If you missed any part of our 310 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: show or want to share it, visit our website for 311 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: downloads and podcasts at one oh six to seven lightfm 312 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: dot com. Thanks for listening.