1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: You're listening to KFI AM six forty on demand. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 2: Carol. Welcome to Jesus Christia. 3 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 3: Worrying Jesus, Hi, how can I help you? Yes, I 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 3: had my kitty put down Wednesday night. Oh no, it 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 3: was Yeah, she was seventeen. I had seventeen long, beautiful 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 3: years with her. 7 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: You sure did. That's a good run. 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, And she was just my little angel. And I've 9 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,959 Speaker 3: had people tell me they don't have spirits or souls, 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 3: that Jesus doesn't. You don't acknowledge him anymore. And I 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: can't believe that. I know, I'm going through my season 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 3: of grieving, and I don't know what to learn. I 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 3: know one is strength, but I don't feel very strong 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 3: right now. 15 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: No, that's okay, evening. Being feeling weak at a time 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: like this is okay because you're in mourning. Keep in 17 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,240 Speaker 2: mind that when there's a lot of things that are 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: sort of psyched in scripture and aren't really talked about much. 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: The animals don't have human souls, no, and they don't 20 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: go through the salvation process for lack of a better term, 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 2: like a human would. But there's no reason to believe 22 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 2: that an animal couldn't be in heaven because God chose 23 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: for that animal to be in heaven. There's nothing in 24 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 2: scripture that says no. I mean, there's even references to 25 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 2: the four Horsemen of the Apocalypse as referring to animals. 26 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,400 Speaker 2: There's no reason to believe that there won't be animals 27 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 2: in heaven. But do animals go through the processes about 28 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: salvation and those types of things. No, But if this 29 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,320 Speaker 2: animal brings you joy, there's nothing in scripture that says 30 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: absolutely positively not will there be animals in heaven. 31 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 3: So when Jesus says he sees a sparrow, when you 32 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 3: see a sparrow fall, you acknowledge that right. 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 2: Every animal is created purposefully and are wonderfully made by 34 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 2: the hands of God, every single one. And people get 35 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: caught up in the lack of knowledge in scripture about 36 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: certain things, and you have to allow for the possibility God. 37 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: God's will is perfect. God's plan is perfect, and although 38 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: you may not understand now how it will pan out. 39 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 2: It also says in scripture that in heaven there'll be 40 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 2: no tears. 41 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 3: Right, So everything in your kingdom will be made perfect 42 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 3: and right, and we won't grieve anymore either. 43 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,160 Speaker 2: You'll understand in its perfection and you won't worry or 44 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 2: concern or have that sadness or you'll see your cat. 45 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: Either way, God, God will control it. Heaven is about 46 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: your relationship with God, not your relationship with other humans 47 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: on earth or animals or anything like that. But that 48 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you won't share in that experience with 49 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 2: those things. 50 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 3: Okay, Now, I might avow when Misty does that there 51 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 3: would be no other and I just feel like that 52 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 3: light's gone out? Is it wrong to go back on 53 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 3: that vowl and get another kitty that does need a home? Now? 54 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 2: Why would you make a vow like that? Was that 55 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: just an emotional state and just it was? 56 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 3: It was because I bonded with her, and I don't 57 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 3: feel like I bonded really deep with you. 58 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: Well, there's no reason that you can't have a time 59 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 2: of focusing and praying at building our relationship better and 60 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: then having another cat. 61 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 3: Okay. 62 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: Now, if you think that there's something anything in your 63 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: life that takes you away from God, yeah you should 64 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: definitely give it a second thought. But there's nothing wrong 65 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: with having a companion animal or someone like that in 66 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 2: your house that you love and appreciate and care for 67 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: and so there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But if 68 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: you wrap your entire life around an animal in your home, 69 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: not giving time to friends, family, or your god, then 70 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: yes there's a problem. 71 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 3: Well, my family doesn't really my family doesn't walk with you, 72 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,880 Speaker 3: and they don't want nothing to do with that special 73 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 3: bond with me anymore. 74 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: You can still spend time with them. Just because they 75 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 2: don't believe doesn't mean you can't spend time with them. 76 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 3: They don't want to spend time with me. They tell 77 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 3: me they don't want to talk to me anymore. 78 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 2: And why is that, Well, what's their reason? Not what 79 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: you think, but what is the reason they give? 80 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,799 Speaker 3: They don't give one. They just might talk to my nephew, 81 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: and he said, well, mommy is who mommy is, and 82 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: mom she's more caught up in all the worldly stuff. 83 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 3: She doesn't we've never had a real close bond because 84 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 3: she had to raise me when my mother died, and 85 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 3: I guess, well, I was handicapped, I am handicapped, and 86 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 3: she didn't deal with it well. And my older sister, well, 87 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 3: she's just real bad, real bad, and she disowned the 88 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 3: whole family. 89 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: So there's a lot of issues, deep rooted issues. There yes, okay, 90 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: Well you should always hope for I don't doubt that 91 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: for one moment, and you should always make that a 92 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: focus of growth to one day hopefully have a relationship 93 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 2: with them, to do little kind things from time to time. 94 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: But do I think that that keeps you from, you know, 95 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 2: having an animal in your life. No, okay, there's nothing 96 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: wrong with that. My concern when it comes to animals 97 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 2: is that people anthropomorphosize them, and that is a big 98 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 2: old fifty cent word that means when you make them 99 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: too human and you center your world around those animals, 100 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: that it can retard your social skills and make it 101 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 2: so because animals are they you know, they're they're pretty 102 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 2: easy for the most part, and you're kind of the 103 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: master in the relationship, so you hold all the cards. 104 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 2: And sometimes that keeps people from opening up other relationships 105 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: and other things in their life because real, you know, 106 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 2: relationships with another human being can be difficult. 107 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's what I've done that I'm. 108 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: Not a fan of. That I think ends up being 109 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: a problem for you down the line. And it's okay 110 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: to mourn the loss of a pet and all of 111 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 2: these things are wonderful and to care and be a 112 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 2: good steward for the animals that God created are is 113 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 2: a wonderful, wonderful attribute. My big, big concern is that 114 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 2: sometimes people use them as a crutch and they start 115 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: referring to them as their kids and all of these things, 116 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: and what ends up happening is you don't. It starts 117 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 2: blurring the line of animal to human. And they're very different. 118 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 2: As much as they have feelings and emotions and all 119 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: these things, they're very different than humans, and so some 120 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 2: people see them as the same and then they stop 121 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: having relationships with humans because, let's face it, animals are 122 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: much easier to deal with, and they listen to you 123 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 2: and they bring you joy, and you can tell them 124 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 2: to get on your lap, and you can tell them 125 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: to sit down, you can tell them all these things, 126 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: and human relationships don't work that way. So as long 127 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: as you keep that in check and you make it 128 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: about a partnership with the animal that you've agreed to 129 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: take care of it, it's agreed to bring you joy 130 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: and to live with you, and you keep that balanced. 131 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: But if you're starting to see human relationships go by 132 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: the wayside, it's because you're you're not balanced there, and 133 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of animal lovers that refer 134 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: to and you're going to know the difference whether you 135 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: refer to them as your kids ironically or with a 136 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 2: tongue in your cheek, versus really seeing them as your children, 137 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: because if you get to that point, you have issues 138 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: with human and human contact and human to human relationships, 139 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: and there's a lot of people like that. There are 140 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 2: people that have been harmed very young and as they 141 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: grow up, all you know, they want to be with 142 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: animals because animals haven't hurt them, or they continue to 143 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: love them and things like that, and it can become unhealthy. Now, 144 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 2: having said that, let me clarify, because I don't want 145 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 2: a whole bunch of animal lovers thinking that I'm saying 146 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: that having an animal is a problem. It is not. 147 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: The relationship with the animal is important. The same as 148 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 2: if I told you someone was having sex with their animal, 149 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 2: you would say that was a problem. So what I'm 150 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 2: saying is that there is unhealthy relationships with animals and 151 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 2: healthy relationships with animals, and if it keeps you from 152 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: having healthy relationships with other human beings, you need to 153 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 2: question the healthiness or the health of the relationship. 154 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 3: With the animal. 155 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 2: Cal Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. 156 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, Hi, Hi, how can I help you? Yeah? 157 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 4: I wanted to ask a question about It's right around 158 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 4: a Romans eleven thirty okay, and it's referring to all 159 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 4: men's hearts are found over to disobedience. 160 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: Okay, you have a question about that, for just as 161 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: you once were disobedient to God but now have been 162 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 2: shown mercy because of their disobedience, Is that what you're 163 00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 2: talking about. 164 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 4: No, it actually says all men's hearts are bound over 165 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 4: the disobedience. And I wanted some clarification on that because 166 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 4: when I read over that, it really helped to clarify 167 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 4: something for me. 168 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: But well, tell me how it clarified it for you, 169 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 2: For for sake of time, what did it clarify for you? 170 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 4: What it clarified for me is and I'm not supposed 171 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 4: to be trying to fix myself. I'm supposed to be 172 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 4: surrendering it. And so it's you know, it's God's work 173 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 4: in me. It's your work in me, not my work 174 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 4: in me. 175 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. And that's kind of a translation of sorts 176 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: of verse thirty two. For God has shut up or 177 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: bound all in disobedience, that he might show mercy to all, 178 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 2: and in doing so, really it's about the human can 179 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 2: get in the way cal as you know at times. 180 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: And although this verse Romans eleven is this whole entire 181 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,679 Speaker 2: chapter is quite wonderful. But when you get into the 182 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: promise of Israel and Israel's restoration in there can be 183 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 2: very weighty and incredibly promising for our Jewish brothers and sisters, 184 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 2: for one as to their place and how that all 185 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: works out. But that verse, you can most certainly look 186 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: at it and see it as a verse of hope 187 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 2: and understanding that the body will always be the you know, 188 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak. Body will 189 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: always be in that state of rebellion, that desire to 190 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 2: kind of be disobedient. God is the one, it says 191 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: in scripture, is the author and finisher of your faith. 192 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: So to understand those premises, those principles, to know that 193 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: God does not start something and then walk away. God 194 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 2: continues to be with you in the process of the refinement, 195 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 2: kind of the refining fires that bring you to that place. 196 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: And as it says in verse thirty two, that He 197 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: might show mercy to have been bound under this under judgmental. 198 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: That's something that I work on, and I just don't 199 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: understand it. 200 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 2: Of the people around you, of the service itself, of 201 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 2: the people leading. What do you become judgmental of? 202 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: Kind of all of the above? I I I don't 203 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: feel like I belong. 204 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:37,559 Speaker 2: In what sense? 205 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: Well? 206 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 2: What what sets you apart? When you walk in and 207 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 2: you say, you know, if you're standing in a room 208 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 2: and everybody's wearing hats, then you say, well, everybody's wearing hats. 209 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 2: I'm not wearing a hat. I don't. So what is 210 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: it like that that makes you feel like you don't belong? 211 00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: I go expecting or hoping for a blessing, and typically 212 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: I feel uncomfortable with the people around me, and I 213 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: tend to pick apart the message and I just don't 214 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: understand why that why I feel that way, and it 215 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: makes me very uncomfortable. And I went to church for 216 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: many years and my wife says, well, you know, children 217 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: to know, why don't you go to church? And I go, 218 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: I don't feel good when I go to church. 219 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 2: And so it's about you feeling good. 220 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: Well, okay, feeling bad and. 221 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 2: Bad is not always a bad thing. I mean, you 222 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: when you work out. You feel bad while you're working out, 223 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 2: but as good results. When you're studying for a test, 224 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: you don't feel great, but as good results having surgery 225 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: the same thing. If you're trying to tie it into 226 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 2: a direct emotion, I think you're you're missing the point 227 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: of what you know what it is. I don't know 228 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 2: anybody who sits there and fills up their tank with gas, 229 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 2: especially nowadays, and gets excited about it. But it has 230 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: a purpose. You're filling yourself up. And I'll tell you 231 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 2: a story that was passed along to me about the 232 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: daughter of a pastor, a very young girl at the 233 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: time seven or younger, sitting in the front row with 234 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: her pastor father as they watched a young lady sing 235 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 2: for the church. Beautiful, beautiful girl gets up there, strikingly attractive, 236 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 2: an amazing voice, and starts singing a song to God 237 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: before the church, and part way through, the young girl, 238 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: sitting with her pastor father leans over and says, Daddy, 239 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: that girl's not singing for Jesus. She's singing for the 240 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: attention of the people in the audience, to which her 241 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: father leaned over and said, how would you know that 242 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: unless that's what you would be doing if you were 243 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 2: up there. So if you're judging people at your church 244 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: and you're getting judgmental about things that they're doing, chances 245 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 2: are it's based on who you are and not who 246 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 2: they are. Okay, So what is it that you feel 247 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 2: that you don't deserve to be in a church or 248 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 2: because it's not all those I hear excuses over excuses 249 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 2: and yes, you know, as a matter of fact, there's 250 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 2: a story that I'll tell you about in just a 251 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 2: little bit. I'll bring it up probably in just a 252 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 2: little while entitled church sucks and I'll explain what that's 253 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 2: about and just a little bit. But it's not just 254 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 2: you out there, but it does deal with you alone 255 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 2: when you can't go to church, and now it becomes 256 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 2: about you and not even about being a model to 257 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 2: your kids. You don't always want to go to work either, 258 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 2: You don't always want to get up and go to work, 259 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 2: but you do it. You're being responsible and you're being 260 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 2: a good model to your children. But when it comes 261 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 2: to church, you think that you can just go. Eh, 262 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: that's different. That's out of character for you. For everything 263 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 2: else you do, isn't it. Well, don't you do things 264 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 2: that you need to do because absolute family, okay, whether 265 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 2: it feels good or not. So spiritually you need to 266 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 2: provide as well. But strangely, you know, it's like you 267 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 2: coming to me and saying, you know what, I go. 268 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 2: I go to work and I bust my hump and 269 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: I do all this, but really, you know, the kids 270 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,680 Speaker 2: get something out of it, my wife gets something out 271 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: of it, but there's very little money left for me 272 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: at the end. Well, it's not always about that. Maybe 273 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 2: that's not the blessing. Maybe you're looking for the wrong blessing. 274 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: And you're but to say, I don't want to go, 275 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: and then your wife and your children go, and your 276 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 2: children are asking about it, and you're going, well, you 277 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: know it. It just you know, Daddy would rather watch 278 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 2: a game on TV or be away or just turn 279 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 2: off for a while or whatever. You don't do that 280 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 2: with work or with other things. And I'm curious why 281 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: you feel it's okay with church. 282 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: Well, I like listening to your show, and I don't 283 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: feel judgmental at all when I listen to your show, 284 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: and I agree with most of everything you say, which 285 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: is wonderful. 286 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 2: But as my producer Neil says all the time, it 287 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 2: ain't church. 288 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: No, it's not. I maybe it's just the I haven't 289 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: found the right church. I don't. 290 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: I don't And that could very well be. It could 291 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 2: be as simple as that. But if you have you 292 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: tried more than one church, Yeah, do you have the 293 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 2: same feeling when you go into these churches? 294 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: Well, no, it's a little bit different. I was raised 295 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: Seventh Day Adventis. My wife's a Catholic. She goes to AH. 296 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: I guess it's more of a Baptist church. And I 297 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,680 Speaker 1: when I go to my you know, the Adventist church, 298 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: I'm really judgmental against the other people there, and probably 299 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,199 Speaker 1: because I was not the best of Adventists. I you know, 300 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: bib alcohol, which is forbidden. When I go to the 301 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,719 Speaker 1: Catholic church, I just don't get it at all. And 302 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: when I go to the Baptist Church church, I feel 303 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: like they don't have the right full message, and I 304 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: judge more the the service. 305 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 2: All legitimate, mind you, but to me that just means 306 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 2: well sort of. And the reason why I do that 307 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: is because you know, you're the brave one, Clark, You're 308 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 2: the one that called and so this that's what we're 309 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 2: gonna deal with, am I going to tell you that 310 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 2: every church out there is perfect. Oh no, no, this, 311 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 2: this program itself was birthed from the frustration with the 312 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 2: churches out there in many ways. But there are a 313 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 2: lot of great churches as well. And I just I 314 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 2: you know, we don't have to spend hour after hour 315 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 2: together for me to look you in the face and say, 316 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 2: you know what, Clark, if you try three different restaurants 317 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,959 Speaker 2: that you don't like, you're not gonna stop eating. So 318 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 2: it's really a it's a bizarre notion that people do this, 319 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 2: and they do it primarily with church and church alone. 320 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 2: They will give up on church sooner than anything else 321 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 2: in their life. There are women that will continue to 322 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 2: date jerks over and over again, men that will date 323 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,959 Speaker 2: female jerks over and over again and not stop dating 324 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 2: or not stop looking and all these things. But church, 325 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 2: the slightest little thing turns them off and boom they're out. 326 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 2: That to me is more than just churches being imperfect, 327 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,200 Speaker 2: which they are. And you see the difference, You see 328 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 2: how everyone treats it differently than everything else you'll put 329 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: up with. Well, my table is a little close to 330 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 2: the to the restroom or to the kitchen, but you know, what, 331 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 2: do I like the food or this is that people 332 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: do that all the time. But at church it's like, 333 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: I don't like the pastor doesn't wear a tie, boom gone, 334 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:52,239 Speaker 2: or I don't like the you know, the way the 335 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 2: pastor has the ear piece thing and it makes them 336 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 2: look like secret service, boom gone. Whatever it is. The 337 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 2: church has to live up to a standard in many 338 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 2: ways scripturally that is beyond anything else, and that's between 339 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 2: them and God. And then they have to live up 340 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 2: to a whole nother thing because they're, you know, dealing 341 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 2: with perfection, the Word of God and his message, and 342 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:22,400 Speaker 2: yet they're imperfect. So it's it's always delivering this wonderful 343 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 2: thing on you know, kind of a dirty plate. And 344 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 2: so there's gonna be there is absolutely going to be 345 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 2: things that you don't want or that you don't like. 346 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,960 Speaker 2: You try and find the best fit possible, but every 347 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,639 Speaker 2: church is gonna let you down somewhere, and you go 348 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 2: into it with that attitude and with your own Bible 349 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,479 Speaker 2: and your own ability to check things and get what 350 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 2: you can get out of it, but get fed somewhere. 351 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 2: I'm i'm, i'm, i'm. I love the fact that you 352 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 2: enjoy the show. That's what we're here for. But it can't. 353 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 2: It doesn't have that fellowship and camaraderie that you do 354 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 2: at a church, or that you should have at a church. 355 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 2: And the messages are different, and it's a little more 356 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 2: bite size here, and it's these types of things, and 357 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 2: I think if you have a really good church experience, 358 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 2: it will blow everything away. I just don't think you've 359 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: found a home. You sound a little orphaned by the 360 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 2: description of the churches in the way you bounce by them. 361 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,679 Speaker 2: And you know, one was how you were raised and 362 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: that was kind of thrown at you or given to you, 363 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 2: and then another one is what your wife believed and 364 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 2: that was kind of that didn't fit. And you're kind 365 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: of going from place to place one don't you look 366 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 2: for something that you really like and see if you 367 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 2: can talk to the family as the spiritual leader of 368 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 2: the household and see if they'll go along with going 369 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 2: to you there. 370 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: Okay, at least start, I think I need to, you know, 371 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 1: pray for the blessing and accept it. And like you said, 372 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: if you're looking for the bad, there's no shortage of that. 373 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: No, that'll be out there. It's just blessing. Is an 374 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,479 Speaker 2: odd thing. It really means abundance, and certain you'll get 375 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 2: an abundance of things. It's not always this kind of warm, 376 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 2: cuddly feeling that people think it is. If you pray 377 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 2: for humility, you know what happens, You get humiliated, that's 378 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:28,920 Speaker 2: the blessing, because that's how you get humility. You pray 379 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: for patience and things start to take a lot slower 380 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 2: in life because that's how God builds patience. That's the blessing. 381 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 2: So not every blessing is going to be walking on 382 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 2: clouds or feel you know, the blessing of a hard 383 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 2: day of work, the blessing of the you know, the 384 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 2: pain of birth. All these are blessings and they come 385 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: in different rappers, and they're not exactly always the boy, 386 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 2: you know, Jesus loves you, long eyelashes, pink hairdoo type 387 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 2: blessings and you know, fucking on clouds and all of that. 388 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 2: So I fear that if that's what you're looking for, Clark, 389 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 2: you're not always going to find that. Certainly, it's just 390 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,160 Speaker 2: not that's not the package that blessings come in all 391 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 2: the time. But I think that that you not unlike 392 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 2: our good friend producer Neil has issues finding that right 393 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: church or hearing that right tone, and a good portion 394 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: of that's going to lie on your issues and not 395 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 2: the issues of the church. And you have to find 396 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 2: out that they have limitations just as you do. And 397 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 2: you find one that has the least amount of limitations 398 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 2: or the limitations that seem to fit or drive more 399 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 2: with what you're looking for. And I think you'd be surprised. 400 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 2: But don't you know, be the leader of your home 401 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 2: and don't let your wife and kids go to church 402 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 2: without you because the message is loud and clear to 403 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 2: those kids and to your wife, and that's not a 404 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: fair place to be. And you would solve other problems too. 405 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 2: God knows men love to solve problem, right, So why 406 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 2: aren't you helping and being a part of solving this 407 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: problem and finding a church that the entire family can 408 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 2: get behind and enjoy. I know you can do it, Gregory, 409 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 2: Welcome to the Jesus Christ Show. Hi there, Hello there, 410 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 2: How can I help you? 411 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 5: I was always concerned about, since Jesus came down to 412 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 5: save us from our sins and give his life, why 413 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 5: did he say, Father, why have you forsaken us? Or 414 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 5: forsaken me, which means, since he was here for us, 415 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 5: why would you think that his father got had forsaken 416 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 5: him by allowing it to be crucified, since that's why 417 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 5: he came here. 418 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a little confusing, isn't it? Right off the 419 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:53,399 Speaker 2: bat Matthew twenty seven forty six. When I'm on the 420 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 2: cross and they say in the ninth hour with a 421 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 2: loud voice, I yell out eloy Lama chavarsini, which is 422 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 2: translates to my God, my God, why have you forsaken me? 423 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 2: A lot of people go, well, why would you think 424 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 2: God has forsaken you when you knew you're gonna come. 425 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 2: It's it's not what it appears to be. You. You 426 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: have to think of it more as an exclamation of pain, 427 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 2: just like you know you would say ow when you 428 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: knew something was coming. You still might say ow. In 429 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,080 Speaker 2: the concept of this, I'm not only quoting Psalm twenty 430 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 2: two to one, which in the Old Testament says, my God, 431 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: my God, why have thou forsaken me? Why are you 432 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 2: so far from me from saving me from the words 433 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 2: of my groaning? So I'm quoting that, but the context 434 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 2: of it, in what I'm responding to is not just 435 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 2: the basic pain. There's a lot going on here theologically, 436 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 2: and that is intense spiritually. That is going on that 437 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 2: you're not really seeing. What people are seeing is a 438 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 2: physical death going on. And it's like, Okay, I get it. 439 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 2: So you're in pain. There's more to it than that. 440 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: There's a feeling of abandonment as God is putting all 441 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 2: of the sins of the world on me at the time, 442 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 2: and because those sins are on me and God cannot 443 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 2: be in the presence of those sins in that context, 444 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 2: in that way another part of the mystery of the trinity. 445 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 2: God has to turn away. And I say that in 446 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 2: quotes at that time while that sin is on me 447 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 2: and I'm experiencing a separation of sorts from God the 448 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 2: only time in all of eternity. So with that experience 449 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:55,160 Speaker 2: going on like that, I respond with my God, my God, 450 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 2: why have you forsaken me? And it ends up making 451 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 2: people think, well, gosh, well did he think he was 452 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,199 Speaker 2: really being No, it was the pain of the moment 453 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 2: of having those things take place that are outside the 454 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: realm of just the physical death that causes the confusion. 455 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: But that's what it comes down 456 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 1: To kf I AM six forty on demand