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Speaker 1: Fifteen thirty, Cincinnati's Sports any there you go, four oh four.

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Speaker 1: This is ESPN fifteen thirty.

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Speaker 2: I'm Moegor. Thanks so much for listening today. Hopefully you're

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Speaker 2: having a nice, warm Monday. And I say warm because

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Speaker 2: it's kind of rough outside.

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Speaker 1: You know this, I hope you do.

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Speaker 2: Typically on Tuesdays, we're joined in studio by Paul Danner

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Speaker 2: Junior from the Athletic in the Growler podcast. I'm off tomorrow,

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Speaker 2: but because there's just been so much news and there's

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Speaker 2: so much stuff to talk about as it relates to

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Speaker 2: the Bengals, I did not want to leak let a

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Speaker 2: week come and go without spending a few minutes with Paul,

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Speaker 2: and so he was kind enough to adjust his schedule

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Speaker 2: and join me. Though it's not in studio, it's second best.

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Speaker 2: He's on the phone and he's with us. Now.

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Speaker 1: Hi Paul, Hi Mo. How are you doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing I'm doing well. It's awesome to have you.

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Speaker 2: By the way, Paul has written a good sort of

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Speaker 2: encapsulation of the week that has been in free agency,

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Speaker 2: what he's learned, what he's heard, maybe some conclusions that

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Speaker 2: you might draw. So go read that at the Athletic

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Speaker 2: dot com and if you missed any of the live

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Speaker 2: free agency shows from the Growler podcast, you can go

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Speaker 2: watch those on YouTube or listen to them, as we say,

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Speaker 2: where you get your podcasts. It's remarkable to me that

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Speaker 2: in the last week, really the last week, from where

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Speaker 2: we were ago a week at this time, how much

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Speaker 2: the tone has changed because we've stopped talking about who

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Speaker 2: they've gotten and a lot of us are focusing more

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Speaker 2: on what they haven't done and who they haven't gotten.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it was a nice little start.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he start off just right, but I think

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Speaker 1: we all.

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Speaker 3: Recognize that it needed to be more than that, and

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Speaker 3: that you didn't want to have a couple of realities

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Speaker 3: that really were part of what doomed last year.

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Speaker 1: That you didn't want to feel.

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Speaker 3: Like you sacrifice depths because you just didn't add enough.

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Speaker 3: You didn't want to feel pigeonholed maybe in the draft

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Speaker 3: at certain spots to try to find starters. You didn't

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Speaker 3: want to feel forced to maybe play rookies in bigger

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Speaker 3: roles than you'd like. But all of that sort of

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Speaker 3: came by not kind of I guess, totally doing the

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Speaker 3: job in free agency, specifically obviously on defense last year. Well,

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Speaker 3: you're kind of saying those things again. It's it's there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of if they're just felt like if you

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Speaker 3: would have checked a couple of more boxes, then you

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Speaker 3: could sit here and say, all right, you feel like

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Speaker 3: this is a feels like a very complete team, one

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Speaker 3: that you don't feel pressured to do anything with, or

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Speaker 3: you know you could you could take one of your

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Speaker 3: top picks as maybe involved rather than maybe multiple having

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Speaker 3: to come in and immediately play large roles like we

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Speaker 3: saw last year. And you just can't really say that.

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Speaker 3: And in terms of significant additions in free agency, those

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Speaker 3: are done.

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Speaker 2: What they haven't done at linebacker. First of all, how

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Speaker 2: much money would you have wagered six days ago when

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Speaker 2: you were here in studio that you and I would

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Speaker 2: be talking today without them signing a linebacker.

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Speaker 3: I would not be wagering on the Bengals.

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Speaker 1: That's unethical and illegal for me, Mom, Well, that's fair.

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Speaker 2: I would not want you to do anything illegal or unethical.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. I understand what you're saying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I mean, look, yes,

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Speaker 3: I like to try to take people at their word.

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Speaker 1: I like to believe what I'm told specifically from people

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Speaker 1: that have no reason to lie to me.

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Speaker 3: And I feel like we heard from enough people saying

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Speaker 3: it loudly enough in Indianapolis that it suggested they had

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Speaker 3: a target and a thing that they wanted to accomplish

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Speaker 3: in free agency, and that was adding a linebacker, adding

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Speaker 3: leadership to those two young guys to help them develop,

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Speaker 3: to add a combo linebacker on the outside, so Demitrius

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Speaker 3: Knight doesn't have to be doing that as much. It

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Speaker 3: sounded like something they were very clearly going after. And yeah,

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Speaker 3: that's when they say that.

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Speaker 1: My thought is they're gonna do that right that? Why

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Speaker 1: why else would they say that?

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Speaker 3: And so for it to then come away is certainly

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Speaker 3: the biggest surprise of free agency. And you know, whatever

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Speaker 3: maybe ended up down their their priority board, and we

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Speaker 3: can discuss why that should or shouldn't happen, but like

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Speaker 3: I would not have suspected that it would have gone

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Speaker 3: completely unchecked in terms of any kind of a real addition.

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Speaker 2: What's the biggest reason for this? Is it simply they

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Speaker 2: believe in Carter and Knight. They believe the growing pains

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Speaker 2: from last year are going to pay off. Did they

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Speaker 2: simply not believe that some of the dudes that we

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Speaker 2: talked about in the run up the free agency were

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Speaker 2: good fits. Were their efforts that just didn't pan out, Like,

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Speaker 2: what's the main reason why we are here where we

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Speaker 2: are at linebacker?

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Speaker 3: I think the main reason is that they valued pass

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Speaker 3: rush first, and they ended up spending what they spent there.

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Speaker 3: They did not use advantageous structures or restructures.

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Speaker 1: Or any of those things with some of their contracts

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Speaker 1: that they.

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Speaker 3: Made to give themselves space to sort of value and

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Speaker 3: have felt what they felt like to be enough room

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Speaker 3: to add more than that. I think they're kind of

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Speaker 3: old school mentality and kind of refusal to use some

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Speaker 3: of the levers that we've talked about, whether you're talking

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Speaker 3: about year one pat pits or you're talking about guarantees

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Speaker 3: or void years or all of that stuff. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think cost them a couple of players that cost

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Speaker 3: them comfortable room to operate the way that they do

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Speaker 3: to go to that next level. I think the value

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Speaker 3: for them of some of those guys that they liked

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Speaker 3: in the linebacker area went higher than they were comfortable with,

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Speaker 3: and they wanted to focus on Cook and Mafe are

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Speaker 3: up Basically a safety and a pass rusher first, and

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Speaker 3: then whenever they had left, they would figure out a

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Speaker 3: way to distribute and they used it in a significant

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Speaker 3: amount of money on thirty one year old Jonathan Allen,

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Speaker 3: and I think that just fell down their list of

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Speaker 3: priorities and they feel like they're out of space with that.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: Is there anybody out there who at that position would

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Speaker 2: make sense both in terms of what they would bring

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Speaker 2: to the field and how it would work financially.

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Speaker 3: You're looking at smaller deals at this point. That what

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Speaker 3: I think their approach right now is what we saw.

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Speaker 3: You're in the Dalton Reisner Noah Lucas Patrick was if

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Speaker 3: you think about where we were at with Guard last year,

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Speaker 3: it was going to the combine, coming assuming going to

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Speaker 3: the owners meetings and they had just signed Lucas Patrick

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Speaker 3: and he was like, it was like, well, he's we

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Speaker 3: signed him a couple of weeks after sure free agency

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Speaker 3: for about a million dollars, but he's going to start

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Speaker 3: right like it was. That was It's kind of where

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Speaker 3: that I think they're looking to find those guys that

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Speaker 3: would be near a league minimum or a low salary

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Speaker 3: that could come in and help there. There are names

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Speaker 3: out there. I mean, this is how you end up

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Speaker 3: with the this year's Orrin Burke's or whoever that ends

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Speaker 3: up being. It's just it's not if you're looking for

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Speaker 3: Bobby Wagner to come through that door. If you're looking for,

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Speaker 3: you know, a couple of the other guys that maybe

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Speaker 3: would demand a little bit higher number to come out

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Speaker 3: right now, that's just that's not where they're at, So

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Speaker 3: they're not going to be coming. But there could be

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Speaker 3: somebody that ends up being a low cost guy that

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Speaker 3: turns out to be a good fit. Maybe he is

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Speaker 3: this year's Dalton Reisner of defense. But you know, it's

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Speaker 3: obviously a substantial and substantial risk.

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Speaker 2: I feel like, as we've talked about, and obviously there's

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Speaker 2: still a long time to go, but I feel like,

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Speaker 2: as we've talked about the way the draft may unfold,

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Speaker 2: at least for me with the tenth overall pick, the

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Speaker 2: one position we haven't talked about nearly enough is corner.

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Speaker 1: Should that start to change immediately?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's really it's fascinating on a number

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Speaker 3: of levels because, for one, you know, we Jalen Davis

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Speaker 3: is a great story. It's it's fantastic what he did

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Speaker 3: last year. He's a guy that spent a lot of

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Speaker 3: the last couple of years on the practice squad and

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Speaker 3: they so they really kind of don't have a nickel

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Speaker 3: at least if you're at the very least you are

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Speaker 3: drafting with the expectation at whoever you draft is going

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Speaker 3: to be playing over top of him, which means you

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Speaker 3: have a rookie in the lineup. They don't have anybody

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Speaker 3: really as a fourth corner technically the outside backup, a

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Speaker 3: single outside backup that you would feel really comfortable with

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Speaker 3: right now, now, vast area that yeah, you could plug in,

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Speaker 3: you know, for the sake of knowing who we're talking

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Speaker 3: about Cam Taylor Britt for example, is how they or

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Speaker 3: they're you know, four or five other guys like him

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Speaker 3: that could be a veteran at a lower number that

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Speaker 3: you could plug in. But they don't want to stop

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Speaker 3: that right now. They just have DJ and they have

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Speaker 3: decks and also you know this is a thing where

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Speaker 3: you're talking about extension negotiations that are going to begin

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Speaker 3: for decks and DJ. I mean they've sort of been ongoing,

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Speaker 3: but really once the draft happens, between the draft and

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Speaker 3: camp is when you'll really start to see those fire

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Speaker 3: up as they normally do as a pre standard timeframe

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Speaker 3: with this team and their extensions. What happens there, you know,

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Speaker 3: when what's the impact of terms of if they they

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Speaker 3: could bring that could absolutely be the position that they

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Speaker 3: take A ten. You could be getting the top corner

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Speaker 3: in this draft right there, and what does that mean

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Speaker 3: for those negotiations how they get used? Would you then

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Speaker 3: reopen yourself to dacks moving inside? If number ten is

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Speaker 3: an outside corner, there's a lot of dominoes that still

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Speaker 3: have to fall at that position that it just feels

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Speaker 3: very wide open and unstable to me right now, despite

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Speaker 3: the fact that has maybe the defense's two strongest pillars involved.

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Speaker 1: I live with this fear.

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Speaker 2: Paul Danner Junior from The Athletic and the Growlar podcast

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Speaker 2: is with this. I live with this fear that because

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Speaker 2: they signed to Orlando Brown for two more years, and

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Speaker 2: at face value, I do understand why they did what

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Speaker 2: they did, but there's this fear that I have that

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Speaker 2: because they signed to Orlando Brown for two years beyond

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Speaker 2: what he was already under contract for, that they're not

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Speaker 2: going to take a tackle and at the tackle they

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Speaker 2: don't take. In a couple of years, I'm gonna look

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Speaker 2: back on a go that's the guy they should have taken,

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Speaker 2: but we had to sign up for two more years

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Speaker 2: of Orlando Brown discuss.

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Speaker 3: Well, to start, it's technically kind of one. I mean,

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Speaker 3: there's really it's really kind of a team option in

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Speaker 3: that I think it allows them to not feel forced

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Speaker 3: into taking a tackle because they have to think immediately

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Speaker 3: about what twenty twenty seven looks like without him under

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Speaker 3: contract at all. It gives a little bit more security

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Speaker 3: to Orlando, a guy that they feel like is kind

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Speaker 3: of part of the core of the chemistry there, and

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Speaker 3: you know, the momentum that they've built with all that

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Speaker 3: continuity up there. So it's that kind of works both ways.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, I do think it takes takes the tackle

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Speaker 3: at ten overall off the table right now. I think

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Speaker 3: it's a it's a little bit of an investment in

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Speaker 3: what they believe Orlando was last year, despite a lot

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Speaker 3: of his efficiency numbers being down, and what they think

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Speaker 3: he can still do. But I you know, yeah, I

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Speaker 3: think you're gonna I think you're gonna look at that

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Speaker 3: and say, there's a lot of nervousness over how he plays.

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Speaker 1: We just don't know, Like.

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Speaker 3: You, you don't know if what you saw last year

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Speaker 3: is the start of a decline or just a circumstantial

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Speaker 3: death because he had a rookie and a lot of

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Speaker 3: change happening next to him. I think we see what

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Speaker 3: their bet is. But yeah, they still need to start

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Speaker 3: thinking about that position because they still have really.

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Speaker 1: A backup for either of those guys. I mean less,

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Speaker 1: we're trusting Tony Ford.

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Speaker 3: So again, another position that you would have said, okay,

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Speaker 3: that makes sense if you would have seen a swing

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Speaker 3: tackle get signed up in free agency. Maybe that's a

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Speaker 3: position that we see at a smaller deal top up

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Speaker 3: here in the next week or so, somebody who can

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Speaker 3: be maybe a backup there.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's.

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Speaker 3: It's certainly still on the radar, but it just offers

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Speaker 3: a little bit. It takes a little bit of that

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Speaker 3: urgency to immediately think about left tackle off the table.

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Speaker 3: I think that's the advantage from a Bengals perspective.

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Speaker 2: I think around the area, a lot of folks today

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Speaker 2: are a little bit more focused, maybe on their NCAA

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Speaker 2: tournament bracket. But for me, I'm diving into the pool

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Speaker 2: that I've created here which is too nail down the dates,

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Speaker 2: specifically that we find out that Joe Flacco has resigned

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Speaker 2: with the Bengals.

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Speaker 1: I'm picking.

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Speaker 2: I think I'm picking June eighteenth, June. Yeah, you're gonna

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Speaker 2: give it to I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go a

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Speaker 2: while here. Yeah, well, I.

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Speaker 1: Was gonna say longer.

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Speaker 3: I feel like he I think that can I can

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Speaker 3: I take the opening that maybe the first week of camp,

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Speaker 3: you know, I don't know, I don't I'm curious. I

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Speaker 3: think there's you know, from Joe's perspective. To me, it's

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Speaker 3: gonna be a matter of does he want to wait

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Speaker 3: through camp and see if something happens right, if some

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Speaker 3: if a quarterback gets hurt or or whatever, who knows

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Speaker 3: what happens, and wait for maybe a position that doesn't

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Speaker 3: appear open to come out in a desperate team needs somebody.

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Speaker 3: Or is he just gonna see that all the obvious

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Speaker 3: spots are gone to compete to play and just say,

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Speaker 3: you know what, I'll just go and and de Burro's backup.

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Speaker 3: He doesn't have to race to do anything. So to

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Speaker 3: me and I and I was sort of explaining this

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Speaker 3: in my story today is like that that's the beauty

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Speaker 3: of Josh Johnson. He'll get you as far as you

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Speaker 3: need to go, right. He knows everything. He knows everything

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Speaker 3: you can possibly need to know. And he went out

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Speaker 3: there and played two games last year and they won

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Speaker 3: one of them for Washington. And he's a guy that's

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Speaker 3: gonna know exactly how to handle everything. He's not gonna

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Speaker 3: be offended by being a cut or picked up or anything.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: He's a solid guy to have in the room. But

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Speaker 3: the moment you maybe really need somebody, and if Flacco

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Speaker 3: is still out there, he's the whaty.

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Speaker 1: He just steps aside.

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Speaker 3: He's just sort of there until Flacco decides.

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Speaker 1: To say yes.

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Speaker 3: Whether that's in July, whether that's in on June eighteenth,

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Speaker 3: as you said, but it's in August. At some point

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Speaker 3: Joe will want to make a decision, and the Bengals

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Speaker 3: want to be there ready to go, but still have

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Speaker 3: an operational backup quarterback situation.

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Speaker 1: Getting them through the off season makes sense.

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Speaker 2: I'll read, I'll readjust I'll come up with a deadline

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Speaker 2: by which everybody's got to have their final date. But Dom,

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Speaker 2: this is this is going to be the little game

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Speaker 2: we play to entertain me. Throughout the course of the

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Speaker 2: next next few months. I appreciate it as always. I'll

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Speaker 2: miss you tomorrow, but we'll see you.

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Speaker 1: Next week, all right, have a good one.

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Speaker 2: That's our guy, Paul Danner, Junior at the Athletic dot

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Speaker 2: Com and The Growler Podcast. Nineteen after four o'clock, we

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Speaker 2: got to get to a poll question. I got to

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Speaker 2: pose it on Twitter thanks to United Heartland Insurance. And

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Speaker 2: we'll take some phone calls a little bit later on Plus.

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Speaker 2: Our friend Jed Demuci, our official Miami University guy, is

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Speaker 2: going to join us at four thirty five. It is

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Speaker 2: exactly four to twenty on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station.

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Speaker 4: Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty. Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center.

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