Speaker 1: Scott flowing back on seven hundred w WELW show. You're streaming,
Speaker 1: you're on your phone, you.
Speaker 2: Got devices in the background. Things are going all. Everything's good.
Speaker 2: You're using all this data. And then one day one
Speaker 2: of those platforms you're on, or maybe all of them
Speaker 2: slow down. You get that spinning wheel of frustration. Well,
Speaker 2: what's going on? This thing sucks? It's broken. No, that's
Speaker 2: the AI boom. Okay, so we're all on our phone,
Speaker 2: we're all using stuff. AI comes along puts even more
Speaker 2: stress on the system. You may not think you're using AI.
Speaker 2: You're using AI as we speak. So people in Mount
Speaker 2: orb in Maysville and Butler County and Wilmington for that matter,
Speaker 2: taking a hard look if they want them in their towns.
Speaker 2: So the City of Cincinnati is getting very proactive on this,
Speaker 2: putting a temporary moratorium on new data centers while they
Speaker 2: do a zoning stead of review. It's not a band,
Speaker 2: it's just a pause. And she is part of the
Speaker 2: Housing and Growth Committee, and that would be council Member
Speaker 2: Mika d Owens and the D stands for data Meka,
Speaker 2: good morning, how are you.
Speaker 3: That's the same. Well, that's a good one. That sounds great. Yes,
Speaker 3: I am doing well. Thank you so much for having
Speaker 3: me this morning. Very excited to be here.
Speaker 2: Okay, so obviously major corporations need them, we get pg
Speaker 2: Kroger fifth or they require data infrastructure we have more demand.
Speaker 2: People in the city would often talk about the urban
Speaker 2: areas being a desert for connectivity when it comes to
Speaker 2: high speed that would help with this thing. So starting
Speaker 2: with the basics here, city doesn't even have a zoning
Speaker 2: definition for data centers right now. So has there been
Speaker 2: any interest from the outside the facilities up to this
Speaker 2: point and what triggered this need for moratorium in the
Speaker 2: point where literally you want to vote on this today.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, first of all, I think it's important that
Speaker 3: we recognize we are in an AI zone similar to
Speaker 3: I think the Internet, and so what that means that
Speaker 3: this technology is here, It's on your iPhone, it's everywhere,
Speaker 3: as you indicated, and so you know, this is not
Speaker 3: a question of whether or not just going to grow.
Speaker 3: It's how organizations, companies and cities jurisdictions get ready for
Speaker 3: this type of technology, revitalization or resolution, whatever you want
Speaker 3: to call it. And so what this step is is
Speaker 3: really a pactive step that will help us to one
Speaker 3: define what data centers are and you know data center
Speaker 3: centers in terms of being able to run AI. It's all.
Speaker 3: Also the concern is the industry consumption that it is
Speaker 3: required to do that. So the first step is, let's
Speaker 3: pop to define this. Let's look at areas of the
Speaker 3: city where this might occur. So we're looking at twenty
Speaker 3: two thousand parcels and what that will do is really
Speaker 3: healthy administration to get in to one get more educational
Speaker 3: understanding and create a framework around if somebody actually wants
Speaker 3: to come to the city and create one.
Speaker 2: Okay, and that is probably sooner rather than later. Again,
Speaker 2: a pause, not a ban. But so let's say P
Speaker 2: and G or Kroger they're working on something. You know
Speaker 2: that they're always expanding, and you have a new CEO.
Speaker 2: Obviously Kroger, you've got there's a need to expand. If
Speaker 2: they need to expand their data infrastructure during this temporary period,
Speaker 2: this this moratorium, are they grandfather? Then what do you
Speaker 2: what do you tell the biggest employers and some of
Speaker 2: the biggest companies in the world you can't have it.
Speaker 3: Well, that's going to be a part of the engagement
Speaker 3: that the administration is going to have to do while
Speaker 3: they are getting all of the pieces on the administrative
Speaker 3: side by way of zoning and definition and the totity
Speaker 3: Court nation. They're going to do that over the next
Speaker 3: couple of months and hopefully we get to a point
Speaker 3: of better understanding so that we actually know what to
Speaker 3: do in a situation like that. We also know that
Speaker 3: there are different types of data centers. You know, most
Speaker 3: people probably think of them as some large warehouse off
Speaker 3: of the side of the interstate, but they could also
Speaker 3: be a small room with with with servers. So we
Speaker 3: want to recognize with the landscape is. And so that's
Speaker 3: the work that's going to happen over the next couple
Speaker 3: of months. And if we don't have and that also
Speaker 3: insos public engagement and so the pieces that are needed
Speaker 3: with you know, we don't have those in the next
Speaker 3: couple of months, they can also extend so that the
Speaker 3: work can continue until we get to a firmer place
Speaker 3: of having answers to these question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I think that makes sense in
Speaker 2: the Central Business District obviously, no go. But there's land
Speaker 2: all over the place in Cincinnati and also in Hambling
Speaker 2: County for that matter where you look at it, going, hey,
Speaker 2: there's what they need is they need they need electricity.
Speaker 2: We'll get to that in a second to power these things,
Speaker 2: but they also need water to cool everything off.
Speaker 1: In the data centers.
Speaker 2: We've got the Ohio River right there, you know, worried
Speaker 2: about in some of these counties, you know, like folks
Speaker 2: in Adams County or Butler County, masl Kentucky and elsewhere
Speaker 2: more of Wilmington, they're worried about taking all the groundwater
Speaker 2: out and that's a huge problem for those communities. You
Speaker 2: really don't have that with the plentiful water in the
Speaker 2: Ohio River that gets pumped back in anyway. It's you know,
Speaker 2: in that you're also in proxi many of the big companies,
Speaker 2: but also the people and Cincinnati needs needs that infrastructure
Speaker 2: when it comes to data and when comes to the
Speaker 2: ability to get more products online and get people connected.
Speaker 2: And so it's a it's a beautiful fit I think
Speaker 2: for some of these cities. And you've got the you
Speaker 2: got the space, and you're not saying no, but I
Speaker 2: think just being near the Ohio River is a bonus here.
Speaker 3: Oh well, absolutely, that is the attraction to the Midwest
Speaker 3: and specifically you know, Cincinnati and other jurisdictions, and so
Speaker 3: it is. It is all a part of the changing
Speaker 3: pollution in our environment and changing climates and changing temperature.
Speaker 3: The Midwest is going to be so attractive because we
Speaker 3: see the erosion that is happening on the coast right
Speaker 3: the West Coast Coast fire was all of those things.
Speaker 3: So just by that, you know, we have got to
Speaker 3: get ready for folks who are coming to this network region. Yes,
Speaker 3: our natural water water source is a benefit, but it's
Speaker 3: also something that we need to protect. Again as we
Speaker 3: will look at data usage and energy consumption, and yes,
Speaker 3: water is a part of that. So these are all
Speaker 3: the important elements, which is why the city is taking
Speaker 3: a step to say, hey, let's uncover all of this,
Speaker 3: because we are seeing this evolve over the news and
Speaker 3: around the world, and Cincinnati is no different than any
Speaker 3: other city in this country trying to innswer these questions.
Speaker 3: I think we're putting ourselves in a really great position
Speaker 3: by saying, hey, let's go ahead and do and overlay
Speaker 3: on a certain area of the city so that we
Speaker 3: can actually get ready. Because the last thing we would
Speaker 3: want to do is to have one data centers just
Speaker 3: popping up all over the place, and then they're you know,
Speaker 3: taking a lot of good demands off of the bridge.
Speaker 3: And so because right everyone spects to come home and
Speaker 3: power their home and with on the lights and all
Speaker 3: of those things, and those that are using solo panels,
Speaker 3: you know, that's also quite exciting. And so it becomes
Speaker 3: a moment where we can think about, one, how do
Speaker 3: we actually mitigate interview consumption by way of all of
Speaker 3: these things that could be incentives to help reduce demands. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, solar panels and all of the abolt.
Speaker 2: Well, now's the time to look at this, and I'm
Speaker 2: glad you are, Mika Owens. You know, I was just
Speaker 2: thinking top of my head the Queen's Gate area, lower
Speaker 2: Price Hill, that area is in need of development, and
Speaker 2: the question is what to do after the New Brunch
Speaker 2: bench Bridge corridor projects done. Hell, we haven't started digging
Speaker 2: the holes yet, that that'd be a good time maybe
Speaker 2: to put the pipe in the like in at that
Speaker 2: point to get the water into the intake and outflow
Speaker 2: from the Ohio River. I mean, just now's the time
Speaker 2: to be thinking about, Hey, where could we put one
Speaker 2: of these big plants in Cincinnati.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. I mean Queens Queen's Gate, aliso A Mountains, the
Speaker 3: West End is a place that has so much promise
Speaker 3: considering what happened and what devastated that community. I seventy
Speaker 3: five and you know you had it was a plus
Speaker 3: storing place for black people in this city. You end
Speaker 3: up migrating in other spaces. We think about the Western
Speaker 3: it definitely has to include housing and you know, amenities
Speaker 3: and syntheist as well. And so you know, somebody an
Speaker 3: exciting conversation to think about what that mix of things
Speaker 3: look like for the Western right.
Speaker 2: Mika Owen's council person on the Scotsland Show on seven
Speaker 2: hundred WLWD city trying to fast track a temporary moratorium
Speaker 2: just a pause data centers coming to the City of
Speaker 2: Cincinnati and trying to get some policy together. Uh. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, I look at Columbus and Columbus
Speaker 2: is rolling out the red carpet for Meta and Amazon
Speaker 2: and Google Data. Why are we pumping the brakes If
Speaker 2: Columbus is moving forward, are we going to get left behind?
Speaker 3: Well? And that's what we don't want, right and so
Speaker 3: I think what we need to do right now is
Speaker 3: define what data centers are, and maybe Columbus look ahead
Speaker 3: of us and doing that. We're currently in our code
Speaker 3: are learning, so we have no definition. So it's important
Speaker 3: for us to stop recognize what a data center might be,
Speaker 3: put that define to it so that the underlying zoning
Speaker 3: is appropriate. So at the end of the day, and
Speaker 3: we're talking about character in a particular community and maintaining
Speaker 3: that esthetic and quality, all of those pieces have to
Speaker 3: be built in at the base level. So you know, again,
Speaker 3: maybe Coumbus zoning UH is exponentially you know, moving moving
Speaker 3: quicker than ours, but we certainly want to to your point,
Speaker 3: this is a moment of revolution where we cannot be
Speaker 3: left behind, not only by way of policy and how
Speaker 3: we use this in the at the city, but also
Speaker 3: by way of attracting new businesses to the signal to
Speaker 3: the region.
Speaker 2: Gotcha, gotcha? Mika Owens on the show, where are you
Speaker 2: at Kroger? What's going on?
Speaker 1: You checking out? What's going on?
Speaker 3: Gosh? I started, I sent so funny. I am at
Speaker 3: a coffee shop in college tail. You know, a girl
Speaker 3: got many things to do in the morning. We could
Speaker 3: do model tacting, but I do want to say Scott
Speaker 3: just one thing about the small your as fictions and
Speaker 3: the county at large. This is where you know, commissioners
Speaker 3: will have to tackle with this issue because when we
Speaker 3: think about land availability and we think about smollogiers, fictions
Speaker 3: that are not even set up with departments like planning
Speaker 3: and dealing with zoning reform, these are the questions that
Speaker 3: certainly we will have to wrestle with and be prepared for.
Speaker 2: Has the city had or scheduled talks with Duke Energy
Speaker 2: to see if they are great our infrastructure locally can
Speaker 2: handle this or is that too.
Speaker 3: Far out that that's the part of what what will
Speaker 3: happen over the next three months while you know, the
Speaker 3: administration is doing this work, so we're talking about the
Speaker 3: deep uh nitty gritty detail information that will be needed
Speaker 3: to to to make this viable, right and so uh,
Speaker 3: you know, engaging with with Duke is at the top
Speaker 3: of the list. Uh. And then you know, as it
Speaker 3: relates to how do we really coordinate energy and utility
Speaker 3: usage if someone wants to come here and open a
Speaker 3: data center, is the.
Speaker 2: Three months moratorium a hard deadline? Because you know, personally
Speaker 2: I think it should be because too often in government
Speaker 2: and you've seen this Meka Owens where it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: give us three months, Well we need another three months. Well,
Speaker 2: next thing, you know, it's a year and no one's
Speaker 2: talking to anybody, and now the fruit is just withering
Speaker 2: on the vine and we're getting passed by. I mean, absolutely,
Speaker 2: do the due diligence. I you know, you know the
Speaker 2: residents and other areas that are undergoing this.
Speaker 1: You know, you should be.
Speaker 2: Involved in your community and decide what's going on. There's
Speaker 2: no question about it in this case. I just wonder
Speaker 2: sometimes you go okay, and then we're onto the next thing,
Speaker 2: and next thing, you know, it's like P and G
Speaker 2: and Kroger are thinking about moving out because they need
Speaker 2: they need more more data and they can't get it
Speaker 2: because you're you're sitting on things.
Speaker 1: So will this wrap up in three months?
Speaker 3: We're hoping so. But I think what's what's key here
Speaker 3: is quality and not necessarily the speed of you know,
Speaker 3: the speed of getting there is really getting the right
Speaker 3: answer to the question. And so while the administration is
Speaker 3: moving towards, you know, being doing this in three months,
Speaker 3: first of all, we still have to pass this today,
Speaker 3: but we are giving some flexibility for an extension if
Speaker 3: we don't uncover all of the things that we need
Speaker 3: to because at the end of the day, you have
Speaker 3: one not only the responsibility of cities to really do
Speaker 3: this and look at this and examine this thoroughly, but
Speaker 3: you also have concerns from citizens who some of us
Speaker 3: don't even know what AI is or what it does.
Speaker 3: And so we're also in an environment where we all
Speaker 3: have to get educated on this revolution because again, it's
Speaker 3: in all of our lives right now and it's here
Speaker 3: to stay. And as I've been in AI conversation just
Speaker 3: with you know, some stakeholders in the city, one of
Speaker 3: the pieces is, yes, let's educate ourselves on how to
Speaker 3: use this as an everyday user as a resident. And
Speaker 3: so there's a lot that I think in the next.
Speaker 2: Three months, no question about mick owens, the more times
Speaker 2: in place. It's going to go on for three months,
Speaker 2: hopefully not much longer than that, and we can't fall behind.
Speaker 1: We know that already.
Speaker 2: But at top of your mind, what are the most
Speaker 2: adverse in facts you're concerned about in your mind?
Speaker 1: Is is it energy costs? Is for the environment? Is
Speaker 1: it noise? Is it traffic or something else?
Speaker 3: The highest concern for me would be energy consumption. So
Speaker 3: if we can figure out the correct balance to that,
Speaker 3: that's going to be priority. Again. We have done so
Speaker 3: much work on the groups of NATI Plan and continuing
Speaker 3: to be responsible to our natural resources will always be
Speaker 3: the city highest priority.
Speaker 2: Okay, obviously the city's behind moving forward with a data
Speaker 2: center somewhere, and I know that. I've talked to people
Speaker 2: before and said, well, it's difficult to build up with
Speaker 2: a huge data center. You know, we have some big
Speaker 2: empty buildings. It'd be great for that, but the problem
Speaker 2: is that the batteries waste much. It's about floor loading,
Speaker 2: and you just can't build a floor the cost. It's
Speaker 2: cost prohibited build upward because of the weight of these buildings,
Speaker 2: so it has to be more expensive. Although there's some
Speaker 2: areas in other cities where they're doing smaller data centers
Speaker 2: as well, and maybe a number of smaller data centers
Speaker 2: versus a big one, but then of course there's that
Speaker 2: there's that cost issue for these big companies doing it.
Speaker 2: Whether it's it's good to put it in since.
Speaker 1: Of that or not.
Speaker 2: It'd be nice if you guys go, hey, listen, we're
Speaker 2: going to set aside an area or a district or
Speaker 2: here's here's there's three different sites you can choose from.
Speaker 2: You'll pick one and we'll get you a deal on
Speaker 2: the property because it's being unused and it's going to
Speaker 2: add to the tax space. And so it's an opportunity
Speaker 2: for local government here to be forward thinking and get
Speaker 2: their arms around the problem we're all going to face
Speaker 2: at some point.
Speaker 3: For sure. Yeah, absolutely all of the above, which is
Speaker 3: why you know, creating this overlay district is important. And
Speaker 3: what we have asked the administration to also do is
Speaker 3: to consider policies that would helps supplement what they're going
Speaker 3: to be uncovering. And so by way of yes, are
Speaker 3: there is their need for certain instances, is their need
Speaker 3: to uh look at things like you know cras and
Speaker 3: uh and other you know abatement strategies that will help
Speaker 3: to be not cost prohibited but actually helped to get
Speaker 3: projects across the finish line, right by which you know,
Speaker 3: we're making sure that one we are you know, energy
Speaker 3: consumption as it's popular with and that not being a
Speaker 3: at first impact.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: You look at communities around and I'm sure at some point,
Speaker 2: if you haven't already make it you're going to talk
Speaker 2: to folks in more mount orb for example, where you
Speaker 2: get a small genets packed with people because they're worried
Speaker 2: about the data center coming in and what it's going
Speaker 2: to do to their community and quality of life, which
Speaker 2: are reasonable concerns. Even if you come up with a
Speaker 2: plan for this too, I'd imagine there's gonna be sizeable
Speaker 2: backlash from people in the Cincinnati community that's simply regardless
Speaker 2: of how well thought out it is, simply don't want it.
Speaker 1: How do you address those people?
Speaker 3: Well, we ask the administration and in the you know,
Speaker 3: in this process which early outlines that you have to
Speaker 3: do a public hearing on these things. But I think
Speaker 3: we want to go a buzz and beyond that because
Speaker 3: of the sensitivity of this, uh, this conversation around AI,
Speaker 3: and so what we're thinking is that this will look
Speaker 3: like you know, engagement that is not similar sometimes when
Speaker 3: we're kind of a directing some of these zoning issues
Speaker 3: to that point, so that we can address people's concerns upfront,
Speaker 3: because it's the moment where we're all learning, truly, and
Speaker 3: the administration, uh, you know, acknowledges that, and so they're
Speaker 3: just going to have to take the time to do
Speaker 3: the right work, the quality work, to make sure we
Speaker 3: are moving in the right direction.
Speaker 1: Well, coffee you're going with this morning at the coffee shop? There?
Speaker 1: What do you got?
Speaker 3: Oh? You know, sometimes I'm a lot taker to go
Speaker 3: grab it, but I love vanilla.
Speaker 1: You like you like a grande. You a big one.
Speaker 1: You bring your own mug. What do you got work
Speaker 1: in Armica?
Speaker 3: Oh? Well, you know, I always enjoyed turning out of
Speaker 3: the mud, so hopefully they have. But even if don't,
Speaker 3: you know, it's nice to be in a coffee with
Speaker 3: good people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 2: And do you also have to get like a giant
Speaker 2: jug of water for that flower that you wear on
Speaker 2: your lapel?
Speaker 3: Yes, I try to make Marty water me as well.
Speaker 3: I know one of these days, you know, someone might
Speaker 3: come up and try to smell it, and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I'm afraid water is gonna shoot out at
Speaker 2: me though.
Speaker 1: That's the thing I know, that gag.
Speaker 2: Well, that's your hook and it works. It works for
Speaker 2: that thing is. It's awesome and it's good to talk
Speaker 2: to you, Mika. You have a great day. Okay, thanks again,
Speaker 2: all right, she's a council member. Mika Owens on the
Speaker 2: show on seven hunderd WW from easily the loudest coffee
Speaker 2: shop in Cincinnati. It was in CVG or something. I'm
Speaker 2: not quite sure, but Meek always a pleasure to talk to.
Speaker 2: And this is an issue that's gonna hit all of
Speaker 2: us somewhere, no matter where you live. There's going to
Speaker 2: be the issue of bringing in AI data center in
Speaker 2: and it's something we demand. It's it's hard to vilify
Speaker 2: the companies that are doing this because it's me and
Speaker 2: you that are driving it. And that's the whole nimby thing. Anyway,
Speaker 2: News on the Way, when a return on the show,
Speaker 2: we'll keep at Cincinnata. Christy Samage here from three CDC.
Speaker 2: All right, the convention center's open. They got ten point
Speaker 2: one million for the naming rights. And now what about
Speaker 2: that big hotel? When can we get this whole thing done?
Speaker 2: News first though, on seven hundred WLW